Victor Safe Restoration 8: Machining the Back of the New Safe Dial

[@pierresgarage2687]

Hi Keith, That's nice, I didn't want to miss this part of the project, so, there it is, interesting, hope the voids won't spoil the finish. See you next episode, Pierre

[@furbarator]

Keith, you make it look so easy.great work and excellent close up shots. Very enjoyable to watch.

[@razorworks9942]

Glad to see you back at it Keith! Tools are cool, but MACHINING is the ticket in my book! Thanks, H.N.Y. Razor!

[@ickipoo]

I could watch brass turning all day. Gorgeous. The new microphone sounds great, btw!

[@1stage]

Even with the inclusions, it's always exciting to see brass machined. They look gorgeous.

[@knunne1]

Dial Machining process is very interesting, thanks for the video!

[@TheSheriff20]

Looking good Keith. Was getting worried you forgot about the safe. Can't wait for the next one Dave

[@ziggassedup]

This is why I watch these vids...I had no idea there was a spring tap follower.

[@bcbloc02]

Looking forward to the fixture fun!

[@outsidescrewball]

Great video and very cool that you start with your own castings!

[@Abom79]

It's coming along nicely Keith!

[@genefultz5267]

Glad to see you back on the safe it is a interesting project !

[@BillySugger1965]

I know this comment is way after the fact but I’m only just watching the series now. I do hope you’re going to nickel plate that dial, it’ll look absolutely superb plated!

[@MikeDittmanmachining]

I'm really liking this safe restoration. I really love bringing old parts back from the dead. Awesome so far!

[@felixrivas9419]

aw man... I am so sorry I just now saw this...lol. I have like 4 of those dials just sitting on our racks....lol I have just started seeing all of these videos, all in one sitting. Lengthy, but very informative. Thank you, we have a few antique safes in our showroom, giving me some ideas. Thank you

[@MrThisIsMeToo]

Nice Keith. Thanks for uploading!

[@lizzapaolia959]

Fantastic video 😎 thank you for sharing your restoration videos, very educational. God bless 🙏

[@super6954]

Hi Keith Nice to see you back on this project. From looking at you truing the dials that printer makes a great job of the casting molds. As we all know casting and accuracy is not an exact science,some times. i remember we did casting in school shop class back in the later 80's. The project was cast an aluminium handle and make a tack hammer with steel head and shaft. I had 4 goes and found a catastrophic failure with casting bubbles in them all, when they hit the lathe for machining, so know how you feel with this. Hopefully next casting time it goes good for you. I never did get the tack hammer, we ran out of practical class time at the end of the year sadly. I Just thought I Don't know if you remember me saying about dads working scale model steam engine in a post before. he's going back to building it now, in his retirement after 30 years not touching it, he's ordering supplies and tooling like crazy at the moment. I might inherit a nice working engine yet, with good memorys of him doing it and the first firing of the boiler when it's done. instead of a kit of parts I will never have the patience and time to do it and finish it right. Regards Robert

[@jameskeywood4503]

I saw that several comments mention brazing or silver brazing. You might try TIG brazing the voids with some silicon bronze rods. Using a TIG torch lets you cut the amps down to about half of what you would use for welding and it lets you localize the heat. You do a great job in all the videos.

[@camojoe2]

Good job Keith! My favorite part of machining, figuring out to hold a part for machining, then making the fixture. Looking forward to seeing this safe restoration completed. Regards, Duck

[@jeffmoss26]

Great work as always Keith!

[@RoelTyros]

Again very nice work Keith !

[@duobob]

In a project I am working on I wanted to used some .398" 27 pitch brass straight threaded plugs that I have on hand. It turns out that a 1/8" NPS STRAIGHT THREAD tap is going to work perfectly. The tap measures .404" O.D.

[@duobob]

***** NPS fittings were originally used in gas light fixtures. Later, when gas lights went away and electric lights took over, many old gas fixtures were converted to electricity. The lamp manufacturers continued to use the gas pipe threads to build the new electric lamps. It still carries on today. Many of the newer fixtures have crude NPS threads that would never hold gas, but now they don't need to. NPS threads are more common than you might expect.

[@EVguru]

***** Both American and British pipe threads came in tapered and parallel forms as do ISO Metric and JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard). I have a handful of 27tpi taps and dies, they're UNS (Unified National Special) from the old Aircraft industry factories in Hatfield, Hertfordshire.

[@PapaGleb]

Keith, Amazing work man. Loving this entire project. So happy Jeff Moss recommend your channel.

[@PapaGleb]

Jeff has an entire locksport / locksmith forum watching and hooked so keep up the great work. Everyone is anxiously awaiting for the continuation of the restoration.

[@carryitaround]

restoration is so very cool thanks keith for the great videos

[@binks166]

Keith, Enjoyed the video, thanks, Harvey

[@vajake1]

Thanks so much for posting these! I always learn something from your work!

[@vajake1]

I look forward to your video work. You have a very easy going, friendly style and I very much like your videos.

[@JWW922]

Hello Keith! On the inclusions you could pull the old woodworkers fix and use some of the chips run them through a small coffee bean grinder, mix with super glue and fill them up or get some dust from a key grinding machine and use the super glue. Just a thought, I'd probably leave 'em.

[@bigun447]

***** Whack the inclusions with a hammer and then tell a story about how someone tried to break into the safe after you got it fixed. Can't look too perfect on something that old.

[@KnolltopFarms]

Fun stuff! I need to go and get some bronze or brass to work with, I just love the way it looks and turns. Thanks for bringing us along for the ride, Aloha...Chuck

[@chrisburton8402]

always enjoy your videos keep up the good work

[@andymandyandsheba4571]

excellent been looking forward to this cant wait to see the finished safe

[@shawnmrfixitlee6478]

Great work again Keith .. That Tap is hard to find ! I found it on Ebay , But it's fine the way your going about it . Not a tap your going to use prob ever again .. Voids in that casting will make it look period original , As long as there not huge .. Back side looked great to me !!

[@shawnmrfixitlee6478]

Oh , I see .. I will keep watch'en !! Thanks Keith ..

[@EnsignRho]

I haven't watched the rest of your videos in this series yet, so maybe it's addressed, but I had a thought for your foundry. The relief hole at the top of your heating chamber has a ranging hot flame coming out. What if you were to get some high temperature stove piping and straddle the heat coming out and have the superheated air piped into the mould so that when you pour it's not so cold on the edges, and possibly those inclusions (if any) will be more at the surface, rather than deeper within the liquid material as the surface begins to so quickly cool. It may also do well to put them on some kind of device which agitates them slightly after the pour, so they wiggle and jiggle a small amount. I have no experience with foundry work (save a sundial from metal shop in high school :-)), but these thoughts occurred to me as possible solutions. I really love your videos. I found out in a recent video that you're one year older than I am. :-)

[@arkansas1313]

Keith, you can't see those inclusions on a 'fast horse' or that is what my exterior trim carpenters would tell me...lol. I say, go with them, part of the brass workings. Cutting brass and big iron are two things on videos I enjoy most. Thanks for all your extra work making videos, they're nice! ....13

[@AndrewMcLaughlinAM]

Awesome job!! Can't wait for the next installment! :D

[@foundryman1985]

Keith, I think you would have had better success with the inclusions by putting the dial face down in the drag and the back side of the dial in the cope. Basically making the casting 90 degrees from how you parted it. This way any inclusions, gas, or sand would float to the back of the dial and could be machined off. We use this technique all the time when making steel castings. When making trinket castings like this, always put the side of the casting you want clean in the drag. I'll be interested to see how you do the dial marks. Can you use a rotary table or dividing head and use a very small end mill to cut a groove. Or maybe setup a jig for a stamp and use a dividing head. I'm sure you will find a way!

[@dejanira2]

love the videos, like a lot of folks are, i want to see how the dial markings are done.

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

That safe dial is starting to look like the real thing. Can you braze the inclusions and then machine them smooth or will it show a different color? Hopefully you will not have to cast the dials over again. Thanks for sharing.

[@swarfrat311]

Keith, A nice job of machining! Would it work to maybe clean up the inclusions with a small burr, then fill them with epoxy mixed with brass filings? Maybe even fill the voids with silver solder? Anyway, I know you will come up with something. Thanks again for an always interesting video. Have a good one! Dave

[@CarlAlban]

Keep up the good work sir.

[@krazziee2000]

nice work . thanks for the video

[@DJUBONICS]

I can't believe I never noticed how enormous that lathe is you work on... Just wondering, do smaller lathes have better tolerances for machining smaller parts, such as threading and so on, or does it really not matter? If so, it'd be cool if you could get your hands on a small table top lathe that just uses collets. BTW I can't thank you enough for your contribution to us novice machinists. I learn A TON from watching your videos. one of these days I hope to contribute back somehow. Happy machining!

[@bobauer4359]

Keith, Do you see any material in the defects in the brass or are they smooth? Not being able to see them up close makes it hard to be sure, but it sounds like they are gas holes, inclusions would have some non-metallic material them, and gas holes would usually be spherical because they are caused by a gas bubble. You mention using some kind of degasser which would help and you need enough superheat go get well above the melting temp..

[@keldsor]

Hi Keith ! Looks very nice, bad with these inclusions ... couldn't they be ground clean and build up again with some brass before machined in the lathe ?

[@k1mgy]

Keith, any way to avoid those inclusions (assuming these caused by impurities or air) in the casting? Would like to see how the casting process is/was performed. Interesting bit of work here.

[@grendel1960a]

I know its a bit late now, but wondering why you didnt consider the change to 26 threads per inch which is a standard bicycle pitch (well it used to be here in the uk) so has taps and dies available in a lot of diameters, all at 26 tpi

[@aserta]

Every time i look at that lathe i keep going, 'man what a beauty she must of had been when she was new'. It's probably one of the coolest 'modern' looking lathes i've seen. Do you have the "copymatic" head for it or have you ever seen one? Pity for the casting cavities, hopefully they won't show up in the front.

[@aserta]

***** Yeah. I was looking in depth at it, and i can't find very much on it. It's like the mythical unicorn horn.

[@bensthingsthoughts]

Have you made any videos from the casting process ? Anyway, your dials are coming up great !! Greetings from Switzerland !!

[@bensthingsthoughts]

I went through some of the mentioned videos and I am really amazed by the process. The numbers of topics covered in your videos is quite enormous. I am glad I have found your channel.

[@IceManTX69]

Another fine video! Might have been asked already but did you get around to doing the second one yet? Was it any better/worse?

[@billmoran3812]

Hi Keith, Not trying to second guess you, but why use a casting? That part could be turned out of a solid piece. Probably more scrap that way?

[@chrisstephens6673]

Hi Keith, don't scrap them yet, finish machining them a, for practice/technique and b, by going "off drawing" slightly, you might find they come out OK. Failing that, fill with braze to keep the colour right. Do you have any experience of hand turning? On a shape like that hand turning would be my way of getting the shape.

[@chrisstephens6673]

Hand turning brass is much like turning a really hard wood like lignum or african blackwood, scrapers are the order of the day, but as I hinted practice on the casting to hone your technique, ready for the new ones.

[@FieryWACO]

Hi Keith, new subscriber here. Concerning the shaft that screws into the safe dial, you said that the threads were oddball, non-standard size...but you continued to ream and tap the dial. Why wouldn't you have machined the threads off the old shaft and cut new, standard threads?

[@VintageMachinery]

I was trying to preserve the original part. And I was able to find the correct tap too - which made it much easier.

[@mack255]

I have that same tap handle . I know big deal right?

[@gregmarchegiani6656]

I am not an expert but the only part that I did not understand is why the casting: could have this been turned from a solid piece of brass?

[@charlesmarlin6632]

Very Cool Stuff!! :-) Well Done Keith!! :-)

[@Copozeras]

Nice work! :)

[@sandrammer]

If only I was there when you were ramming up the pattern for the dial, we could have had a much better product if a proper gating system was included and a riser (Blind or open) was incorporated to both feed the casting and give a place for some of the dross to float to. Perhaps some other time. Metal was good quality though despite the inclusions.

[@sandrammer]

***** Be happy to. Now that the holiday period is over, I'm completing some projects (Loom Knitting and have to make/decorate a cake for a baby shower). Once those little projects are done, I'll be free to schedule a get together. By the way, was watching a video put out by Keith Fenner called "Come about, part 5" and while he was boring out a brass/bronze casting he came across a couple of shrinkage voids about the size of a couple of pencil erasers. He said they were sand inclusions, and I wasn't there to contradict but they were exactly where an under fed casting would have had voids not at the skin of the casting where the sand would have floated. The point...even the prettiest casting can have a defect.

[@sandrammer]

sandrammer I need to do some Foundry work, using my creative juices on leatherworking, knitting and cake decorating isn't filling the void like metal work!

[@sandrammer]

***** I understand you're trying to get set up to be able to cast iron from previous comments you've made. Hope it works well but you should know that melting and casting iron/steel is a whole new level of danger and has a whole new set of needs to address if you're to make a good casting. new supplies to buy, new equipment to aquire, etc. Don't worry, I have experience in that area also. If I don't know something, I can find out.

[@haukef4289]

I really like your work, you are great. But everytime I see those videos i wonder why people use units like inch and foot and mile and so on instead of SI-units. Calculating with metric things is so much easier. especially when you start calculating with physical or even chemical formulas.

[@VintageMachinery]

Hauke F I have to admit that the metric system is much easier to use, but you have to remember that when you are brought up measuring everything in inches, feet and miles, that becomes your standard of reference. I actually do a lot of measurement using the metric system in my 'real job' (as a scientist), but in my mind, they are just numbers - for them to mean anything to me, I have to convert them to my standards of reference that I am so familiar with - inches, feet and miles..... Maybe at some point in time, we will teach our children metric from early on and break the cycle, but for me, I will always revert back to what is rooted deep into my brain....

[@pappamike100]

thanks for the video. any tape of the Brass pour? i know that sounds greedy and a bit selfish because shooting video must quadruple the time it takes to do a thing and you actually do have a day job. do you ever visit the foundry where your cast iron parts are made? any video of that? glad to see you've recovered from the thievery. thanks again for sharing.

[@pappamike100]

***** oh yeah, i went back and checked and i had, in fact, watched that video. so, hey, I'm watching it again. thanks.

[@patbrasbras]

kieth you a vacuum to vacuum up the metal

[@williamleinonen4888]

I think you needed a 1/8 27 pipe tap. 0.405 O.D.

[@williamleinonen4888]

***** i believe you can get straight pipe taps as well as tapered.

[@mack255]

If you get tired of hearing from my just let me know and I will stop. I don't want to bug anyone. Sorry

[@mack255]

From ME

[@mack255]

I think you need a little bit bigger lathe for that job? LOL

[@mack255]

Keith that was a joke! you had that little part in that great big lathe LOL

[@DJUBONICS]

In response to the comment below on doing the dial division and numbers: You should electro-etch it!!!!! Daniel from switch and lever has a tutorial, although with your expertise I'm sure you're very familiar with the process... Just need to get your hands on a laser cutter and an AutoCAD file. If you send me the dimensions I'd be happy to make a file for you that has all the proper divisions and numbers (listing every 10 digits around the dial, since doing every number would be very time consuming). You have to have access to a laser cutter that has a bed that can drop low enough where the laser and railings will not be obstructed by the height of the dial of course.... at the moment I don't have access to one with a low enough bed. kzbin.info/www/bejne/paLFeXyHfM-trqc

[@Opinionator52]

Take a gold crayon and rub it real hard on the inclusions, then use a nice soft rag to polish it flush with the surfaces! (Not old school, but pre-school)! ;o] O,,,