KelTec KSG vs Smith & Wesson M&P12

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In this video, Eric compares and contrasts the two most popular bullpup shotguns out there, the ‪@KelTecWeapons‬ KSG and the ‪@SmithAndWessonInc‬ M&P 12.
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[@seandunaway2628]

Some people be missing the reload point, if you shot 14+ shells and they didnt get the job done you drop the shotty and go to your pistol...

[@m.danielmills7091]

Right because think about it like this. If you're shooting a traditional 9 pellet 00 buck, you're essentially shooting off 126 projectiles with those 14 shots. Each one nearly the diameter of a 9mm. Any one of which has lethality out to 100 yards.

[@nkdfun]

If the intruders are sticking around after 14 shots, then you've got something they really want bad! They usually scatter after the first shot.

[@m.danielmills7091]

@@nkdfun For SURE

[@deautrs79]

100% AGREE!!!!

[@bakamonkeyfun1593]

There is an old saying " switching to your side arm is faster than reloading. "

[@paytonkeller7074]

I have a KSG 12 and I love it. Some tritium sights, a magpul fore grip, and nice flashlight and you have a fantastic home defense tool.

[@watermann8200]

Imagine the round count using 1-3/4 shorty #4 buck

[@paytonkeller7074]

I’ve done that before I can’t remember the exact number but it will hold over 20 of them

[@tylermallory2504]

100% agree with everything you just said except KSG...

[@kh8655]

@@tylermallory2504 good for you

[@jarrettm3728]

Ksg not enough metal mnp12 to much metal

[@nonopopo1985]

Kel-Tec also had the first micro compact 10+1 9mm pistol with the P11, which came out in 1995. Well before the Sig P365. Sure it had a 3000lb trigger pull, but it was still the first of it's kind.

[@RCXDerp]

You have to admit the P365 shoots really good though

[@tomisamish]

I have a p11 and it's kinda garbage. For the p365 to fully catch up they will need to release it in .40 and .357 sig

[@johnqpublic2718]

​@@tomisamishor just not be garbage

[@larrrs3]

He had the grendel p10 in 1988 11 rounds of 380.

[@Squirtismostlypiss]

I got a XD mod 2 9mm that holds 14 and it's nearly the same footprint of the sig gun. I never understood the hype.

[@nuclearfish010]

I love my ksg. Any ksg made in the last 5 years probably... Is actually really nice. They really perform well. Really the most badass shotgun on the market

[@m.danielmills7091]

I'm a DP12 man myself. Built like a tank. Nothing cheap on it. 2 taps available per rack. Nuff said. I can't believe that shotty doesn't get more love on these channels. Hickock, his son John and Larry Vickers are really the only people I've seen show it a lot of love. Vickers' video on it is AWESOME btw.

[@Lungorthin666]

The M&P looks awkwardly tall from bottom of grip to top rail. The KSG just looks better and your firing hand isn't positioned lower compared to your pump hand like on the M&P.

[@marioalban1495]

The mp12 is 10xs better

[@scooter433]

I have a DP-12 from Standard Man. 16 shot. Totally love it

[@kylerobinson9789]

My KSG i bought used, have had lots of issues with extracting. Found that shit ammo is the cause. If anyone has this issue you should take apart your ksg and polish the chamber with valve rubbing compound. I have also found that it loves Federal Ammo.

[@benzsandoval2992]

Or you can buy a ksg and a ks7 for the same price as the Smith and Wesson

[@-Zer0Dark-]

Just bought a KSG-12 today. The guy at the shop handed me an M&P hoping I'd fork over the extra dollars for it, but two factors killed it for me: The heft, and the fixed foregrip. It's just too bulky, and the foregrip is further ahead than I find comfortable. For CQB home defense, that's a negative for me.

[@adamhearts9195]

what price

[@MrFlathead45]

My nephew has a DP12 from Standard manufacturing... Big, clunky, awkward to carry, and even more awkward to reload... But.... Blam blam, rack, blam blam, rack, blam blam, rack blam blam, rack, blam blam, rack, blam blam, rack, blam blam ..... Makes me smile from ear to ear....

[@chipsdubbo5.56]

Thanks for the video man!

[@eyesnearstactical]

I definitely love my KSG-15! You right! You have to man handle it when racking. Great comparison video. 👍🏾

[@eyesnearstactical]

@rsh4599 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Fa real!! Deebo! 💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾

[@citoloft1969]

Thank you so much for sharing that and by the way, I picked up the Caltech K7 and I also picked up the Smith and Weston MP 12 as well and I just happen to run into the Mossberg maverick 88 and got that as well I haven’t shot not one of them yet😂😂😂😂 but I will

[@This_And-That]

Sounds like these bullpups start the fight and you switch to a backup gun after you run out of ammo to finish the fight.

[@timbuchman9158]

Don’t forget to mention the Glock magazine storage in the handgrip for your extra quick standby

[@ResetGovernment]

You know a semi auto version of these would be tits.

[@ChunkyDogWater]

Look up the IWI Tavor TS12

[@ResetGovernment]

@@ChunkyDogWater that thing is massive

[@CarlPapa88]

​@@ResetGovernmentIt has to be for extra room the bolt cycle takes up.

[@AsianTrix]

KSG is better. Smaller, lighter, more accessories, faster tube switch (with extended selector), and more reliable with short shells.

[@johngrunwell2412]

I own and use the KSG-12 and I can tell you that I’ve had ZERO problems running various shells including the mini-shells. Chucking at any angle of hold, nearly upside down, was never a problem. Of course I’ve added some notable upgrades along the way and switching between loads a breeze. 👍 for KSG.

[@chaos561]

The carry handle on the KS7 and pic rail on the KSG are interchangeable and available on Keltecs website. I bought the carry handle for my KSG because my nephew loves the space gun look lol

[@lobtop1]

I'M DOING MY PART!

[@_Doguru]

@@lobtop1WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?

[@aaronsarquist3382]

SERVICE GUARANTEES CITIZENSHIP!

[@rodneyobrien4624]

Been looking at the KSG for my birthday gun , here soon, the KSG can also run mini shells, so 22 rounds of 12 gauge

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Too bad Smith and Wesson M&P 10mm were not released before quality testing was done

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Good bear stoppers for sure!

[@SonoraSlinger]

Minishells. You can run em up to 21, some people claim more. Less reloading

[@theadventuresofjavier8698]

I don’t have any experience with the smith. However I do love my KSG. It’s bees 100% reliable over hundreds of rounds. With a few Mcarbo accessories it’s even better

[@johnqpublic2718]

I have noticed over the years that when describing their gun, if someone feels the need to include that it's "been 100% reliable," it either hasn't actually been 100% reliable, or it's enough of a concern with that model they felt the need to say it. Even Eric's hasn't been.

[@jimmydunn3775]

⁠Completely disagree. Most people that have had issues with this weapon can not grasp the technique of functionality of it or either they are limp wristing the weapon.

[@theadventuresofjavier8698]

@@johnqpublic2718 sorry but I won’t advertise buyers remorse. If it was a bad buy I would say so. I bought a hi point c9 . It’s been worthless . Lots of people swear the c9 has great reliability. Not mine My KSG IS 100%

[@francischambless5919]

@@johnqpublic2718 it took me about 40 rounds to understand what the salesman meant by don't be gentle racking your next round. Those were the only issues I've had with the KSG with 500+ rounds through it. Granted, I don't use tons of different types of ammo and never use short brass. Usually in videos I see people always trying to rapid fire the thing, which makes no sense. If you want rapid fire, a pump shotgun shouldn't be your go to weapon.

[@mehtevas2653]

The ksg 12 is the perfect grouse gun one tube of bird the other with slugs for bear protection or deer if the opportunity arises

[@Devin7Eleven]

Always wanted a KSG.. I should just get it since I been dreaming about it for months. Has everything I want. Only concern I have is reliability and build quality. Want it for the range and civil unrest scenarios.

[@nuclearfish010]

Any new ksg's are great. They got a bad rap in the beginning. But any ksg made in the past 5 years are awesome.

[@meanman6992]

Ruger straight up copied Kel-Tec’s homework a few times, and refined it into a better product, as the consumer, I’m okay with it. I’d buy a kel-tec inspired design refined by S&W or Ruger before buying the inspiration piece. Simply because Kel-TEC has some innovative ideas, but their execution is often…. “Meh”

[@thevoyageur2152]

Great vlog! As for copying designs to me it’s similar to when pumps shotguns came out everyone started making one but just a little different. Evolution of the BULLPUMP.

[@Emily_M81]

thanks for sharing :) the M&P 12 will also shoot shorty shells, iirc it will hold 10 per tube >_>

[@vrod1136]

What do you think of detachable mag fed bull pups? What detachable mag fed bull pup would you recommend?

[@arthurchadwell9267]

Fear 109? Looks awesome, never saw one in real life...

[@larrrs3]

Will the M&P run mini shells? I added the extended magazine change Lever to my KSG so you flip it with your wrist so you don't have to remove your hands from the firearm I also have a Sig Romeo 5 and have fun at the range busting clay pigeons. My ksg is a little mule if your shooting 1 once slugs at 1,600fps

[@eyesnearstactical]

Yes the M & P take mini shells (20), KSG-15 take 22.

[@reprisalwithin666]

Hey man, what's with the Moss Pawn & Gun audio quality?😂

[@dancain7565]

As always, great video Eric!

[@Rob-qr2kn]

No one mentions the SRM 12-16 anymore. Are others just out performing that weapon ?

[@jackgreenstalk777]

Well done review and comparison. Great stuff per usual, Eric 👍

[@john-mf1qm]

For a bullpup shotgun tavor TS12>all others

[@raymondgellenbeck7459]

Thanks. Because of your vid I switched off from about to buy a KSG. My M&P12 arrives Monday ;)

[@thevoyageur2152]

Do you know if any Law Enforcement or military organization is using the KSG or M&P12?

[@45Gunner556]

I think the San Francisco SWAT Team uses the KSG !!! (EDIT) Also something I remembered the North Korean Army Experimented with the KSG Shotgun

[@PrivateLongo]

My ksg 25 is the best

[@CMDR_Shokwave]

KSG is $530 at Prepper Gun Shop right now. Love this gun.

[@45Gunner556]

Thank you Man for telling me about this I have Been thinking about Getting one From BudsGunShop They have Em for 664 but I will get it From preppergunshop 🇺🇸🤠🇺🇸

[@markzuckerberg3128]

I have a KSG. I don't like how you have to use a perfect amount of force when racking it make the gun work. If you don't rack the last 1/8 of inch (which is very easy to mess up), the gun WILL jam. I guess I need more practice with it. It does kick more than my Maverick 88. But if you put a Limbsaver pad on the KSG it's not bad. The Maverick 88 is just much easier to use. The KSG is lighter and more compact though with more capacity. The KSG is indeed hard to load. The magazine tube follower gets stuck a lot after the last round. I don't think I could use a KSG reliable ina real gun fight though. I shot my friend's KS7. That gun kicks like a freaking mule. Way worse than any other 12 gauge shotgun. Don't buy the KS7. It's not fun to shoot.

[@quickgearshifter2719]

I have a KS7 that’s fun to shoot because I load it with mini shells and it holds 12 + 1

[@way2ez4u]

A vertical fore grip eliminates the short stroking problem on the ksg. I never cared for it until I tried it and realized it is a MUST. Makes racking the gun properly so much easier.

[@lukeellsworth1377]

I found My KSG used by an old man that never shot at 599 with magical flip up sights and a fore grip

[@KidFromQueens]

I made the mistake and got a TS12….there’s no better shotgun that can follow! I absolutely LOVE that rig!

[@Devin7Eleven]

You’re doing your part!

[@john-mf1qm]

Agreed!

[@thews9237]

No mistake. Great choice!!

[@XDWX]

Except you gave your money to an Isreal based company.

[@richardkitzer346]

That's what I really want but unfortunately I live in Illinois 🙁so researching pump bull pup now.

[@NebPWN]

eric and chad, make more gun review vids please

[@Abigailrp]

superb Video, but no links to the range review vids. Is it possible to temporarily limit one of the ammo chambers for states with ammo limits?

[@thegentlemenrat3727]

Howdy eric keep em coming

[@nextlevelboxingtalk6808]

How come this guy didn’t mention that the M&P 12 is capable of shooting MINI SHELLS & 3” shells with absolutely ZERO PROBLEMS?! That means that the M&P12 can hold well over 20 rounds if loaded with Minishells and shoot them with NO RECOIL whatsoever

[@MattCaliber]

Am I the only one who thinks the Kermit plush fits strangely well in the background?

[@henryklassen9165]

You can't compare these 3 guns without including the DP 12😊

[@watchmework7672]

I was thinking the same thing. I own a DP12 myself and would have loved to see it in the video.

[@gerardmcquade9102]

the KSG also comes in 4.10

[@EthanMcKee.]

Eric let's see some milsurp footage at the range. It's been a while since you had a k31 on video

[@mcmakin138]

Aguila mini-shells makes the KSG SO much more fun. 23 round capacity. WHAAAAAAT??!!

[@Tactisloth]

S&W had to recall a bunch in the first month or so due to cracked barrels😂

[@JohnQuincy1776]

I really think that the KS7 if the best form factor for practicality.

[@SideShowALPHA]

Love my m&p12 loaded with 20 mini shells.

[@TangomanX2008]

I haven't tried minishells on my mp 12. How reliable are they?

[@blakebeaton5821]

The best options, as I see it, are the KS7, the KSG SBS, the M&P12, and the KSG25. The KSG SBS and KSG25 should also be able to use that suppressor also.

[@kevinboothe9991]

I prefer the tube selector on the KSG over the M&P. Being able to switch tubes with a flick of the wrist while keeping both hands on the controls while keeping eyes on target as opposed to having to take one hand of the slide and find the switch then get back into the battle and possibly having to look for the switch.

[@mdarks4117]

One of the only downsides of the KS7 is lack of a rail to mod the pump

[@RBowner]

Smith and Wesson also recalled their version because the barre was fracturing

[@americanpatriot7867]

I had a KS7 and it was junk right out of the box. Every malfunction you can have with a firearm I had my first day at the range with it.

[@adamjensen8112]

you need to manhandle it more

[@Chris-ml3hw]

They look like the marines guns from the Aliens movie. Wish they had a digital ammo countdown timer like the movie. JK

[@johnbaggs5901]

I added the aluminum followers to my KSG, and it performs smoothly.

[@hindsight2022]

When they get a side loading gate built in i will buy one. I hate the reloads on those ksg's

[@francischambless5919]

There is an easy way to load the KSG-12. You only need a good grip in the front and a 1 point sling on the back. Use the left magazine first, then the right as your backup. When you get the chance to load, don't flip the gun over and don't drop the barrel! I don't get why people keep doing this!?!? Just use your trigger hand to grab your rounds after switching back to using the left magazine. For right handed folks you should be able to feel right where the round needs to slip the round in with your thumb. Easy if you practice, which it all boils down to anyway.

[@PitmanBoyd-m9z]

Gonzalez Anthony Walker Kenneth Anderson Richard

[@the7observer]

what about your experience with customer support from the companies?

[@BUZZKILLJRJR]

Seems like Smith & Wesson's really been copying a whole lot of Kel-Tec designs. Now obviously they're not exactly the same they are complete new designs on the same concepts tho. I wrote this comment before I saw the video I just saw the title haha so yeah I totally agree it's not exactly the same obviously same concept though

[@ReubenOaks84]

I've never wanted to own a keltec, but the ksg 410 model that's not out yet does peak my interest. I won't buy one until they have been reviewed by plenty and prove to be functional and reliable. I like to wait a year or two when something new comes out just in case there are issues that need and get fixed.

[@TheAsheybabe89]

A 410? Why though. It's the worst of all worlds. Less effective down range, less options of loads, and cost substantially more per round vs 12&20 ga.

[@deebee5744]

Why do that when you can buy low recoil 12 gauge ammo

[@EdwardM919]

Just wondering if the 8888 had a meaning for white power with this channel?

[@mnyee1995]

I'd tried these 3 bullpup shotguns in a dealer. Impression based on the rank of preference: 1. KSG - very compact and light. I like it. So short that even feel small for myself. Cocking it is very light. Lifetime warranty. But many plastic stuff, sales rep said it might break. 2. IWI TS-12 - very well balanced. Looks big but really almost feel same weight with KSG when carried. Very ergonomic but bulky. 3. M&P12 - too long. Sales rep said he likes that the most because it's manual pump feels like real shotgun. But I felt the left hand is cantilevered too far to pump the gun, it's very tiring and doesn't feel ergonomic. The button to make loading shell easier is also feel stiff. Definitely not ideal for me.

[@minigpracing3068]

Will either of them feed short shells reliably?

[@texmcboog]

The minis cycle perfectly in my KSG and it doesn’t feel as picky on stroke travel. 23 rounds is a lot of payload. End of world shit if you need them all. I carry one Remington slug in the handle in case I need to get a target on the other side of the wall.

[@CarlPapa88]

​@@texmcboogSomebody make a grip plug or DIY?

[@Araretoy]

I have a KSG and in an apartment (using 04BUCK ammunition), it stores very nicely. Like Eric said, you really don't need more than the 14+1 in a home defense situation. Of course fun time at the range, the 1" Agularia shells are fun and considerably less recoil. Again, as Eric said, no free lunch in physics.

[@ez56789]

Aguila*

[@HemiMichael]

Well 15 rounds aren't good enough for me!!😂 what about home invasion!?!?!?!? In the heat of the battle you'll miss shots!! Why bought aftermarket 14 slug holder that sits on top of ksg. Fully loaded it's got be 15 pounds😂😂😂 that suppressor is as much as the ksg.......I'm good but if I had 1300.00 I'd buy it in a heart beat!! But I couldn't imagine the stamp for that!!

[@Araretoy]

@@HemiMichael No stamp required. Full-length barrel shotgun. :)

[@HemiMichael]

Isn't it a suppressor??? I've never bought one before but these one is awesome! But can't afford it right now. Wish I could find used.

[@dwayneelizondomountaindewh1465]

This whole bullpup thing really did a resurgence here on the Youtoob. Wait, so what was all the bad early hype with these KSG's about ?. I liked them when they came out, and all the people saying that a shockwave is better for 300$ ?. People we're like not sold on Kel Tec then, not at all. You guys are demanding of a long trial basis, I can tell and I used to think I was the demanding one. Eric says, you are criminals. In reality, you guys are super demanding consumers. Not me, I have knives that are probably made in Taiwan, whatever.

[@RodolfoRussell-n8q]

Hernandez Melissa Robinson Barbara Lopez David

[@billydurbin8165]

Goodmorning. Thanks for the ksg content.

[@MrWasian]

Love my KSG, for the price point and what you get there really isn't any competition out there for it. While there are alternatives they come at more of a premium without really offering significant performance improvements. Of note, I do chuckle when people talk about reloading any of these bullpup shotguns in a home invasion scenario. Their capacity allows you to put down an entire squad sized element if all your shots hit, but even with traditional semi auto you won't be able to reload efficiently in that same scenario and will need to use your sidearm regardless.

[@EdnaCarroll-x7d]

Harris Carol Davis Eric White Charles

[@turbocateyeS475]

Dawg, what is S&W doing? Folding PCC, 22mag handgun, 12 gauge. Why'd they suddenly go after kel tec?

[@434sbmrchevy]

So in other words the M&P 12 is more manly. I say be a man and not a wuss

[@michaelsanchez8457]

Love your content, Brother. Ks7 might be nicer with short shells, i know mossberg has 590s now, how do shorties cycle in k7?

[@jimmydunn3775]

If you are not gonna run the KSG like it owes you money and develop a technique using it then stick with grandpa’s single shot 410, you not gonna have a good time with your purchase.

[@CarlPapa88]

KSG 1000 round torture test on video? Haha

[@Mr.Doodlebob]

Can hold 13 regular rounds can hold 30 mini shells? 🤔

[@SAMMIEJONESJUNIOR]

The M&P is not built better it is built slightly differently and uses more metal. The Kel tec is built tough, rugged, and capable.

[@MU-oi1su]

I'd like to see an M&P version of the KS7. I don't need the dual mag tubes, but I do like the 7 round bullpup design.

[@jimrustle643]

The KSG and the M&P12......you see, one has a forward grip and one does not. That's about it.

[@ChiTownGuerrilla]

MP is just way too bulky and cumbersome imo. Although it uas some cool extra features.

[@youtubedude3422]

While a a bit different, I think the dp12 is similar enough to these guns to be included in this comparison.

[@LindaMoore-o9d]

Robinson Steven Thompson Melissa Wilson Larry

[@mrshifter8220]

Eric, it's been awhile since I watched one of your video's......is it me or are you getting older? lol.......enjoyed the video, well done.

[@scottdoran3112]

...Ks7 with the +4 tube is the Ks12, very small cool package...like the Ksg 25.

[@J_D_Rambro]

I changed to metal followers and a mix of the aquila mini shells for a total of 23 rounds if I need more ammo those rounds will help me fight till I get to my AR or KSG 25 with 40+ of those aforementioned shells....both Kel Tec's fully loaded made a shotgun bandolier obsolete.

[@tonyelbows8045]

now, a couple of these shotguns look like the Bullpup Unlimited kit for the Rem 870 and the Moss 590. What's the prognosis on that with these? Costs less, for sure.

[@Mr196710]

Just curious- what is a standard blue UN helmet composed of and will a 12 ga. penetrate it?

[@johnbaggs5901]

Asking for a friend? 😉

[@dking6412]

What type of red dot sight do you have on your KSG.

[@carlcarlton764]

If RoboCop had carried a shotgun, this would have been it.

[@NunyaBesnas]

You’re looking good man! Seems like your losing weight.

[@huntermichaud6074]

Great video thanks for the info and comparison! Looking at getting a kel tec ksg

[@deebee5744]

You can half load these bad boys long term without risk of losing mag spring tension