Joker reviewed by Mark Kermode

Mark Kermode reviews Joker. In 1980s Gotham City, troubled loner and wannabe comedian Arthur Fleck find himself pushed over the edge.
Please tell us what you think of the film -- or Mark’s review of the film. We love to include your views on the show every Friday.
If you like this, why not subscribe to our podcast for more reviews, interviews and general wittering of the highest order: www.bbc.co.uk/....
Twitter: @Wittertainment
www.bbc.co.uk/5...
Fridays at 3pm on BBC 5 live.

[@Missjunebugfreak]

The scene on the subway when he was laughing uncontrollably while actually being terrified broke my heart a little. Joaquin Phoenix is such a masterful actor.

[@roycastanon5754]

Yeah, they didn't let him get his card in his bag

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

@@roycastanon5754 Did he still have his card? Didn't think the woman on the bus ever gave it back to him so he couldn't show it to the men on the subway.

[@killthomas8373]

Bjørn Halfhand I assumed he just has a bunch of them that he gives out when he starts having a bout of laughter

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

@@killthomas8373 yeah he probably does. I think there might be 2 occasions including the subway where he can't seem to find them. Thought maybe he only carried one. I don't know.

[@MattiusFincham]

@@bjrnhalfhand2258 He did still have at least one cause those cops who tracked him down when he was visiting Penny in the hospital had one.

[@FracmentalMusic]

"And I was wrong" You don't hear a lot of that these days

[@waynemongo]

IF you haven't seen it - check out Mark's re-review of A.I. He details how his original review of the film was very much wrong. Having seen it many years ago, I was able to admit to my friend that I was wrong about District 9... I FELT LIKE A NEW MAN!

[@fragr33f74]

@@waynemongo Haha! I even feel like admitting you were wrong has a different kind of enjoyment to it. Like you've discovered something on your own. I felt that with Interstellar a bit. Didn't like the film as much, but the more I thought about it the more I liked it despite some of its problems from my POV.

[@sjorshoeijmans5442]

Open your ears sometime, and then read the survivorship bias entry on wikipedia

[@kyletitterton]

"Boiled in the loathing that surrounds him." How poetic!

[@Stephen-zq2wf]

Soon the Vessel holding the Poison is Corrupted

[@thefoxcritic1]

that is around him*

[@alansmith4655]

I love that Kermode can review a highly anticipated film for 10 minutes and not give away a thing. Wonderful critic.

[@byronlovelace8379]

10 mins is too short also..could do with half of this

[@garyfrood6670]

You know that, it's a lost art.

[@vvp1229]

Kermode's the best in the review business. Someone give that man an award for services to cinema. Maybe a dark knighthood. The amount of time he saves us all by sifting through all deserves an award. Arise Sir Mark of Critic.

[@scabthecat]

he gave one thing away. mark's reaction to 'woke culture killed comedy' instantly had me thinking remoaner. so i checked, i was right.

[@agoogle6454]

Completely agree! I watched Chris stuckman and IGNs review and bloody hell the amount plot points they went in to was ridiculous

[@rebelbiscuit]

The film actually made me decide to try to be nicer to people.

[@TheGamingg33k]

Yup, treat everyone nicely and this world would have been a better place.

[@DrNickRiveria]

@@TheGamingg33k yeah and you wont get stabbed in the head with a pair of scissors

[@ShelbyBaby27]

Not to be nicer, but to actually listen to each other. Many of the escapades of this movie could have been solved by listening to understand.

[@johngalt5205]

@@ShelbyBaby27 - Imagine what would happen if we listened to each other instead of getting triggered and yelling our opinions and demonizing people who disagree with us.

[@joesheridan9451]

I think that's the right and natural reaction to it

[@MrSTVR]

People are acting like this is the first ever movie about a mentally disturbed killer. With the recent backlash and scaremongering, you'd think Hannibal Lecter's appearance sparked a new wave of cannibalism.

[@Whalewraith]

But its everything straying away from safe these days. It's like the reviewers of Logan only seeing a glorification of knife crime.

[@Damontable]

Exactly. The film actually helps a discussion on mental health which leads to mass shootings. But many want to shut that up because they're afraid of where that discussion will lead to.

[@EOTA564]

It’s not new. 20 years ago Fight Club was attacked by the Right for promoting anarchism and terrorism and by the Left for promoting fascism. Listen to the original DVD commentary with Pitt and Norton, two Hollywood liberals saying that the reaction from the Left was worse than the reaction from the Right.

[@fatmat3460]

It's because it's the first movie about a mentally disturbed killer that also features violent riots by the poor killing the rich and cops

[@uiscepreston]

@Pat Johnson STFU, with your party of commie white supremacists.

[@justintierney4717]

Some critics say that the film had no message. But when I walked out of the theater I was left with the idea of being nicer to people. Small acts of kindness could have done wonders for Arthur.

[@gregkrazanski]

isn't it kinda weird though to want to be nicer to people based on the fear that they might evolve into a psychotic killer?

[@mselizabethsteel]

I agree

[@TheBenchPressMan]

gregkrazanski - it’s exactly that, if you are kind to even people with murderous tendencies then MAYBE they won’t feel so bad, maybe they will see there is humanity in the world, and maybe they won’t become a murderer!

[@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342]

Easier said than done. It's impossible to be nice to everyone. Being nice to certain people offends other people.

[@lehuafromkailua8781]

His kiss on the head before the midget left his apartment confirms what you said.

[@Hykje]

It's interesting that the scriptwriter of "The Hangover 2" ended up doing "Chernobyl" and the director to "The Hangover" movies ended up doing "Joker".

[@a2bmedia]

And the composer doing both!

[@beastmasterbg]

the people who laugh most have best intuition of darkness

[@anntoybarez9368]

😟😃🐴🐗🍛

[@barryweyandt2682]

Can't do comedy anymore it offends too many people, shame.

[@jeaniejeanphotography8067]

No way! Chernobyl was a masterpiece!

[@arminharacic1655]

This is why Mark Kermode's been consistently great. Even if I don't always agree with his takes, he explains his opinions very thoroughly and you can tell he tries to understand a movie FOR WHAT IT IS not WHAT HE THINKS IT SHOULD BE, which is a trap a lot of critics fall into.

[@ben.1202]

100%. Even with a lot of broader films that a lot of people would probably dismiss right out the gate, he at least gives them a chance (off the top of my head, I remember him quite enjoying Baywatch).

[@simonegreco1958]

"which is a trap a lot of critics fall into" Not critics, but comic book fans...and the "geek" fandom in general, wheter it's superheroes or Star Wars or whatever Not professionals

[@TristandeRobillard]

@@simonegreco1958 yeah Star Wars and Game of Thrones are the worst offenders in that regard. Can't stand those fandoms anymore.

[@websalsero]

Armin Haracic Well said. Agree 100%

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

@@simonegreco1958 you're blaming the fans? Have you seen the awful agenda driven reviews by "critics" in the access media? Seen the reviews of this movie by "critics" gathered on the Rotten Tomatoes site? You blame fans? Amazing.

[@hilaryc8648]

A dog goes into a bar and orders a martini. The bartender says, “You don’t see a dog in here drinking a martini very often.” The dog says, “At these prices, I’m not surprised.”

[@DecimusTheThinker]

"How about another joke Mur-ray"

[@alexbowman7582]

I was going to a fancy dress party dressed as a sandwich and on the way stopped off at a pub for a drink. Sorry said the barman we don't serve food.

[@florinnatu]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@carolynwhitfield5405]

Alex Bowman ghost is an I.

[@NoBody-tf7ib]

@Daniel McGrath What does that have to do with this.

[@gridlo]

Interesting. I never thought King Of Comedy ended with Rupert being "accepted by the media." I always thought that applause and ecstatic announcer (who is VERY over-the-top) was just another of Rupert's delusions. We only HEAR the applause, we never see anyone applauding.

[@thomasmatthews478]

Funny enough, this also happens in Joker, when Arthur makes the crowd ‘laugh’ at the comedy club, we only hear it. The crowd it self didn’t actually look like they were laughing

[@gridlo]

@@thomasmatthews478 oh wow

[@alexandersalmas21]

Yeah Joker makes it very clear that certain things are only in his head (his girlfriend, in particular) so that makes me think the director, Todd Phillips, had the same interpretation of the ending of King of Comedy.

[@martynsimpson2275]

I always found the ending of King of Comedy deliberately ambiguous. I can’t remember all the details, but was never sure whether his successful biography:/ book and fame was real, or fantasy. Joker resolves ambiguities more clearly (fantasy girlfriend for example)

[@petehobson1054]

I thought it was in his head as well.

[@southpakrules]

Joker Critics score 69% Ghostbusters 2016 Critics score 74%. I'll just leave it at that.

[@Heretiksb]

Joker Top Critics score 44%

[@JacenFarscape]

I assume you mean Rotten Tomatoes? Well that's not entirely accurate. If you press on "more info", you will see the actual rating. Ghostbusters 2016 had 6.51 and Joker had 7.26. Not defending or supporting either, just underlining the real scores.

[@matankesselman456]

The percent is not the actual rating they give it. Its just how many critics gave it a fresh rating.

[@adejames1960]

..maybe Joker can pursue the critics if there's a sequel.

[@JPH1138]

@@matankesselman456 I find it ridiculous that Rotten Tomatoes gets cited like an authority when they use such a meaningless metric. When Last Jedi got 90%+ I looked at the reviews rated 'fresh'. A lot of them were completely apathetic newspaper critics who were like "Hey, yeah, it's Star Wars. Spaceships blow up and stuff, if you like the others films you'll probably enjoy it"

[@infesticon]

This is why you have pro critiques, Mark Kermode told me every thing I needed to know with out recapping the plot of spoiling any thing.

[@GeneralPlunder1]

Stuart Dawson - Spot on.

[@spinakker14]

And this is why Mark is one of the few critics whose name I know and whom I follow

[@garyfrood6670]

You know that, it's a lost art now.

[@nathanriver1556]

Ya, that's what I really like about Mark. Regardless of whether or not *he* likes a movie, I get a sense of whether or not *I* would like a movie from his reviews.

[@Aethelhald]

Nah bro we don't need pro critiques, it's 2019. All we need is a Guardian writer telling us it's bad because it has a white man in it... or something.

[@ganjamozart1435]

When he is in the stairwell with his mother's file, that scene broke my heart. Phoenix is miraculous.

[@jillianryan1890]

Ganja Mozart yes me too I was teary and upset for him.

[@harpreetmangat195]

Phoenix good, writing is MEDIOCRE!

[@geg6315]

Wasn’t even sad. Very generic background

[@bryankilvinski]

"I am not entirely sure which film you were expecting!" :D

[@alexdawson9230]

@@aegresen It is close to a masterpiece, there are a couple of moments that seemed just a bit off to me. Pheonix's performace itself it is amazing, I can't see him not being nominated for an oscar, unless the academy really hates this movie for the message it gives

[@michaeljones5787]

Commits is an understatement. I’ve just seen it and for all I have mixed feelings on it as a hole his performance is never in question.

[@grantleesback6458]

@@aegresen I lost respect when The Lego Movie wasn't even nominated for Animate Picture and when I retroactively discovered that Shakespeare in Love beat Saving Private Ryan.

[@Rickxxxs]

something has to be said about the score in this movie...amazing for the overall tone of the story

[@MondayNightFriend]

Absolutely perfect mix of sickly hope, dread, and sadness. Got chills everytime that main theme came on.

[@diananunez7]

Magnificent score!

[@Rickxxxs]

Boyce Bailey lol. the score not the track list. I’m talking about the cellist who created the music.

[@rebeccaelliott9770]

Oh my gosh yes. It was amazing

[@SuperBuckwheat11]

Should win Oscar.

[@Man_v_Cars]

Robert De Niro plays 2019 Robert De Niro.

[@TheBlessedbread]

he's a nasty man and in this movie he plays a nasty man. I was going to not see movie becuase of his political hatred, but had to see it, of course, and I think as long as DeNiro does not pretend to be wonderful and compassionate I can watch him in another movie.

[@MrMandelsohn]

His ending gave the movie a happy ending

[@jjkhawaiian]

You mean a has-been scumbag?

[@blackcobra1981]

Kind of like Robert Downey jr

[@MC-kp2oi]

Simon T robert deniro always plays robert deniro as he ages

[@definitelynotkevindurant5438]

I felt like this film screamed more 'Taxi Driver' than anything. Loved both

[@BigChuggus_]

I suffer from terrible anxiety and depression and this may just be my personal take away from the movie but I guess that’s what joker makes us all think that we relate to him in a certain way . But the scene with him imagining himself on the show and the situation with the pretend girlfriend who is his neighbour is exactly how someone with mental illness thinks of situations and it gave me goosebumps as the scenes unfolded as I will imagine scenarios and situations to make myself picture a happier life and think of girls wanting me in that way and create scenarios in my head and us being happy when in reality I’m no where near any of these things happening. It truly made me emotional and spoke to me in a way no other film has.

[@TexZenMaster]

I have found that one of the best cures for depression is to *STOP THINKING ABOUT YOURSELF* and focus on the needs and happiness of others. Not only does it help your own depression, it can make a world of difference in that of others as well. Caring for the disabled and mentally ill reminds you that "Things could be so much worse." You will start to appreciate aspects of your own life that you had taken for granted for many years.

[@deancrawford7470]

TexZenMaster I agree with your core point about stop thinking about yourself but the way you made your point sounds like your guilt tripping the guy. Depression is a soul sucking monster and coupled with anxiety makes socialising incredibly crippling. Everyone has their own journey through mental illness and the only true healer is time, depression is essentially withdrawal from the ego. The self pity and narcissism is an important part of growing as you learn yourself what is making you worse. Your spot on about helping others in worse situations but that shouldn’t be about seeing people who are worse of than you as that belittles your own problems. We can’t share others pain and experience their lives from a sensory point of views but simply helping and being around people in difficult situations can be enlightening. I’m glad you came through your rough patch and you must be a strong person as I know all too well it takes a special kind of person to go through life’s lows but never forget the place you were in and choose to be sympathetic over preaching🙌

[@sjs7917]

@@deancrawford7470 perfect response.

[@craigthornton1971]

@@TexZenMaster "Things could be so much worse". UGGGHHHH. Such an awful expression. Life isn't a game of medical Top Trumps. Everyone is dealing with their own thing, not somebody else's

[@Jorg-ug3ie]

Jamie Cumming: all the best to you and a big hug from the Tropics. Thank you for your personal, honest reaction. Joker, it's themes & Joaquín's performance, truly moved me too. And as for TeXZenmaster... I think you didn't really learn much from the movie, did you?

[@petalohanele1183]

Just watched the movie last night. Can I just say this Todd Phillips film did not disappoint, it was worth every cent seeing it in theaters. 10/10 recommend

[@quirkypurple]

DC?

[@euanharrison7125]

Made a lot of cents

[@julieo219]

Did you think it very violent and scary? I am wary of seeing it.

[@rodrigoterrazas4425]

This was not a DC movie, yes it’s their character but this is a Todd Phillips movie, that’s why it was so great, because DC had no saying whatsoever. All DC provided was the money.

[@quirkypurple]

@@rodrigoterrazas4425 Exactly what I was thinking

[@kaleltravels]

Something I don't understand about western culture : why living with your mother would ever be considered a bad thing or a shameful thing

[@jillianryan1890]

OUHABI khalil something I don’t understand about eastern Arabic culture is how men marry 4 wives ??!

[@loiracitr]

Well, in that case: he can't afford to live on his own and his mother is basically disable and should have probably needed a more professional care

[@tolar9]

It's because he should have his own family and home and his dependent mother should live with him.

[@misterpinkandyellow74]

@@tolar9 no he shouldn't idiot

[@DamnZodiak]

"I love that whole thing about inner states being expressed through outer movement." You must absolutely love Terrence Malick.

[@franciscorendon2783]

The dance scenes gave me chills. It's also great they evolve every time Arthur evolves as a character.

[@DamnZodiak]

@@gernwind9262 I don't think I quite understand what you're talking about. What Terrence Malic impostor?

[@alanpennie8013]

@@DamnZodiak I hope the guy is harmless. But we're on a Joker thread here.

[@Ava-pq6om]

The concerns that the film is incendiary are valid, but that's the bloody point of the movie - to show and condemn the systems that lead to such outcomes, which exist whether we show or ignore them.

[@CarcerH]

"I wish I understood dance" Kermode for Strictly 2020

[@glawrence0007]

Was going to say the same thing. Honestly, after he made that comment my mind wondered big time! Is it worth placing a bet on Strictly 2020? Movie Night would be interesting.

[@motherofallemails]

typical British, needs to "understand" that which ought never be "understood" but interpreted. He'll probably do it with art too. 😧

[@Tklinedesign]

I feel sorry for the people that dislike this movie.

[@ajs41]

@Tim Hands I think he means he feels sorry for the people who don't like the movie for political reasons.

[@ajs41]

@@binbinbinbinb7185 I still think what I said is most likely to be true.

[@killbot_factory]

it is by no means a bad movie, but I feel really sorry for people who think this movie is deep, insightful, poignant or original.

[@ajs41]

@@killbot_factory Why?

[@killbot_factory]

@@ajs41 I was making a snide response to the original post. mostly about how if it takes this movie to open one's eyes to all the darkness in society, then that is just baffling to me how one could have been previous so unaware. this movie says nothing new about the world but people review it like it is some subversive masterpiece making a profound statement. so I stand by Joker being pretty superficial, like a laundry list of "disturbing" tropes to make a gritty characterization. for me, it invites far too many taxi driver and king of comedy comparisons, and unfortunately joker pales in comparison to those two. in the end, joker just seems too concerned with telling a dark story, rather than telling a good story that happens to be dark. trying way too hard, ya know? and the audience eating it up is what is most annoying. is the movie good? it's fine. does is say anything new? naw.

[@fredo1070]

He doesn't play the Joker, he plays Arthur Fleck and that is the twist.

[@NoNoNah306]

Occasionally he plays Arthur Fleck playing The Joker.

[@gtfourziggy2]

@DR Evil are you saying that hes "just a dude, playing a dude, disguised as another dude?"

[@DDChorror]

This film would be better if it had no Batman connections

[@VultureClone]

He's right. Joker is a character to be pitied, not admired.

[@CinemaStix]

I think the fact that he can be both is what's astonishing. And Phoenix's talents are what are able to show us that.

[@o2xb]

@Tattle Boad well done, a man who has no words of his own but instead uses his intellect to repeat the words of others often out of a pretentious illusion of being a cultured fellow!!!!!!

[@o2xb]

@Tattle Boad not bad, I like it!

[@SevenEllen]

It's kind of hard to do either with a psychopath. That's what the REAL Joker is. Joaquin Phoenix's Joker wasn't, because he had a different condition and the director wanted to make his own version. He succeeded.

[@jstohler]

And yet there's a scene where he poses like Christ and is cheered by hundreds of people around him.

[@MarkusNapp]

6:30 "What a strange reaction" What is strange about that reaction? Here is an actor who is under contractual obligation by the studio to shine a positive light on a product they want to sell and make sure as many people will see it as possible. This means dodging outright controversy and not siding with anyone in this cultural debate. Had he just shot from the hip he might have said something (anything at all, really) that one side or the other would have used against him and the movie. I wish a lot more people would step back (literally what he did, stepped out of a situation that was triggering him to speak without authority on something he hadn't thought about) and then return when they had a chance to collect themselves. I bet his answer was still in the better interest of the movie studio but the fact that he had the integrity as a person to go "I'm not going to just talk out of my ass here" is very respectable in my opinion. What I find strange is that this is what we define as "strange" nowadays. The internet can ruin your life within a couple of hours if you're caught saying the wrong thing. So it should be the natural response to go "let me think before I open my mouth" but quite the opposite seems to be the case.

[@franslam7398]

I literally just wrote a comment based on that exact part of the review with a similar viewpoint to yours. I thought it was strange that he thought it was strange tbh.

[@affalaffaa]

Strange, but they are journalists sticking up for their own.

[@WiseFool]

Joaquin Phoenix has also stated before in interviews that he does not believe films create violence but the media's reaction can, that there is a lot of evidence to suggest this (the media essentially turns isolated and disenfranchised people famous with no regard for anything but clicks and views and these same institutions have the audacity to blame cinema, games, music etc.) and he doesn't want to get sucked into such discussions to fuel that further. Anyone who knows a little about his personal life knows he is very apprehensive of the press and with very good reason.

[@olivercuenca4109]

It's not strange to think before you talk, it's quite strange to leave the room halfway through a conversation in order to think about your next sentence.

[@SargenSmee]

@@WiseFool well said. I saw an interview with Peter Travers where JP said he had done alot of research and would be happy to discuss it off camera. I think that JP's views rubbed up against what he thought Warner Bros would want him to say and that is why JP had to leave the interview. It might seem "strange" but I applaud his decision to check in and think about a suitable response he could live with.

[@dannydeepo]

I found that the end of king of comedy left it open to the audience to decide wether he was actually a tv star or still living in his delusion‽

[@610vegas]

the end of the joker does the exact same thing. was it all in his head

[@ave789]

We don't know, and that's the whole point of the Joker - if he's going to have an origin story, he'd rather it be multiple choice 😉

[@EmptyGlass99]

That's how I interpreted the end of KoC.

[@GhostManBrandonDDpre]

American media prayed for this film to fail. Too bad for them.

[@ShinkuGouki]

It's funny how the media immediately attempts to make a failure of something that points to the truths in our society. Had it been a bunch of fantasy hoolah,the media wouldn't have blinked twice.

[@thepug475]

The media love it when a movie has the possibility to cause a crime like a mass shooting

[@adamholden9546]

It wasn't the gun porn the American Market loves. It felt quite anti American actually

[@onemuststand7353]

@@adamholden9546 Anti-American not so much. Anti-establishment and anti-societal norms? Very much so.

[@trunkage]

Nah. Todd Phillips was playing a couple of critics that did have that idea, just to sell tickets. You've been played

[@humamumtaz2719]

I watched with an audience who were absolutely gripped. And quite rightly so.

[@ajs41]

I'm going to see it very soon, hopefully within the next 7 days.

[@eoinMB3949]

Me too. The audience in the theatre I went to were dead quiet and absolutely stunned.

[@PirateZ1]

Best review I’ve read for Joker: “If you’ve never swam in the ocean of course a pool will seem deep.”

[@akajkyt]

Sebastian Rodriguez saw that on Letterboxd and I completely agree, I don’t despise this film, I gave it a 2.5/5

[@J_131]

It was one of the best movies I have ever seen in my life. Joaquin was absolutely riveting.

[@davidking4838]

All I needed to know about the film was that Joaquin was in it - I was sold.

[@mathieuleader8601]

the Joker at times reminded me of Andy Kaufman at points

[@jayr7965]

Yes! When he jokes about his Mother telling him he couldn't grow up to be a comedian and he says "Well look at me now!" to zero laughter. The fact that there is no laughter makes the joke funny, which completely does my head in. It's weirdly genius.

[@holnrew]

4:55 The film is about society you say?

[@KillahMate]

Well, we do live in one.

[@TheAmubis]

I wonder if there was any chance that we inhabit inside one ?

[@GNoble1294]

Gr8 m8

[@Vesporeon]

@Dex And one might posit that such a statement says quite a good deal about such an existential state that we all survive in

[@Novasky2007]

Why do we fall apart as a Society bruce?

[@drewroberts139]

"What do you get when you cross a mentally ill loner with a society that abandons him, and treats him like trash?" This is the reason people have a problem with the movie. They dont get the joke...

[@horrorfreaklondon3037]

Oh but i do....i do.....i really do.....heee heee heee haaaa haaa woooo

[@drewroberts139]

@@Paddytfilm You obviously don't get the joke

[@charlesmayer497]

Yes! And they made me sad and angry.

[@criticclips1560]

This was the worst line in the movie tbh.....the rest was great.

[@primedawg666]

Wayne called the poor in Gotham "Clowns" that's also why it became a political symbol.

[@joesheridan9451]

Pretty sure he just called the people who supported the killing of the three guys on the train clowns. He definitely didn't say all the poor people in the city are clowns

[@jluq5728]

The movie lingers with you after and makes you want to watch it again. That’s an amazing film

[@tajcee]

J Luq I saw it on Thursday night and I’m still thinking about it. You can always judge a film based on how long it lingers with you long after you’ve watched it. There’s so much to unpack that I need to see it again, at least two more times.

[@oscarsmith6687]

I watched it at 11:30am today. I am very tempted to go back again tonight. I can’t stop thinking about it.

[@appletree6741]

I've been thinking about it for over a week now. Viewing it was disconcerting so although I love it dunno if I want to watch it again soon...

[@mialovely7864]

To the people freaking out over this movie. I said to them it’s a movie about the JOKER what did you expect! Have they ever read or looked into the character in the comics? He is meant to be unsettling and disturbed and frightening. He is meant to be chaotic. That is what the joker character is about. I swear people are so dumb these days 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@beren_bear4255]

To be fair if I was in a room with Robbie Collins id walk out too.

[@JONDUCK1]

😂👏👏

[@anirudhk217]

Right. His question was insulting. If a right wing journalist did that, he'd be ridiculed.

[@beren_bear4255]

@@anirudhk217 Agreed.

[@rinwesley3092]

Someone gets it. It was a dumbass question.

[@mridulchhibber]

I've been craving this review...

[@telinoz1975]

Joker was a masterpiece. Reflects the World we live in, if you're on the wrong side of the tracks.

[@paulmartin591]

I would say a mirror is a good metaphor for this film because it only appears to be deep but lacks any real depth.

[@donbarzinitut]

@abbsnn cose That was more a metaphor I believe as to how the ruling class abuses the the working class every day. I.e. after the 2008 financial crisis, the bankers didn't pay for the misery they caused millions but instead got trillions from the government. Yes it isn't very often that wall street bankers will go onto a subway and beat up poor people but they do it in other ways.

[@mattgreek1066]

BritTrot she’s a Russian bot. Ignore ‘her’.

[@sircliff323]

Like me I'ma middle class extinction rebellion man. I had a hard life. Choosing which house to spend summer at

[@ASKpq]

It’s incredible that DC and WB allowed for it to be made. It’s so raw and bleak. Unbelievable movie. I left it with an immense sense of gratitude for the people involved in making it and a little sadness that its fresh and unexpected impact probably won’t be achieved again.

[@abond623]

They allowed for it to be made because the DCEU was in such a sorry state, that: A) If this fails, it doesn't matter, it can't get any worse than things already are B) If it bombs, it doesn't matter, the budget is the lowest we've spent on a DC movie C) If it's great, we can at least deal with the Batman side of things in this vein and it costs less and might make us even more money, even if it isn't breaking the kinda bank Marvel movies are

[@wgo523]

Oh please. It might be unique for a comic book movie, but this movie invented basically nothing. Yes Joaquin is great. But he's also great in You Were Never Really Here. Also a way better movie. Challenging dramas aren't new. What Phillips made is a an average take on a genre. The Scorsese films he references so much are much better films. It's cool that this movie exposes people to this type of movie, but that's about all it can claim as "unexpected".

[@byronlovelace8379]

DC movies = for grown ups MCU movies = for kids and man babies

[@franslam7398]

@@abond623 DC was being a little difficult about it being made because from what I've read they were reluctant to have a definitive Joker origin story seeing as no one really knew what his origin was and the Killing Joke only became cannon but wasn't originally created to be so. Thankfully the film does maintain Joker's origin mystery (if you've seen it you'll know what I'm talking about).

[@WrestlingTitan]

Joaquin Phoenix was phenomenal. This movie was a masterpiece.

[@llamaofvinter5801]

This was basically all about Phoenix's performance. That was the strength, the driving force and in practice, the chief reason to see this movie and as far as I could tell, the main reason they decided to make it in the first place. Can't criticise it too heavily on the other stuff, mainly because I always saw its objective to enable a talented character actor, specialising in playing uncomfortable, damaged characters, to run riot with a character we know has a lot of nuance and existing interpretations. He did so spectacularly well, so watch it for that alone if nothing else. I enjoyed it a lot. I hope we get more character driven movies from DC universe, allowing different directors to take on their own projects. The best movies always come from directors who pick their story to tell, rather than these by the numbers predictable as all hell movies where we've seen the plot a hundred times over. Anything that bucks the trend Hollywood usually puts out in cinemas is worth supporting. Keeps things fresher and hopefully encourages more like it, as opposed to more of the same we get so often.

[@Enzaio]

I definitely agree that Phoenix's performance is great and worth buying a ticket, but what would you say this Joker's character is, aside from being mentally insane? I see zero character development in this movie, just a mentally ill person being driven into committing terrible acts because of a set of random circumstances and coincidences.

[@llamaofvinter5801]

@@Enzaio There's not a lot of change in the character per se, but rather our perceptions change as the movie goes on. Like he's living with his mother, he's having "positive" interactions with his next door neighbour, he wants to be a comedian and make people laugh, he's very much alone and is bound by his mental issues. The subway incident is originally sparked by his desire to protect a woman. These are all well meant actions that show somebody who wants to fit in and connect, but also do some good things. Now what we learn later on about the reality of these things, with respect to his mental health clouding his and our perception of what was actually happening, and his reaction to him learning about what really happened, that exacerbates the mentally ill and dangerous side of him, that is genuinely sick and twisted too, and it's a full plunge into depravity. Like I said I felt some things weren't done great, it's not a perfect plot and the whole rich v poor thing was a little lazy and at least poorly executed in some respects, they could have done more with better writing and director, but honestly it doesn't matter to me that much. The movie succeeds in letting Phoenix take the helm as lead in a mainstream drama while comic book fans got a Joker origin story, one based entirely in its own film where drama allows deeper dives into the circumstances that lead to him becoming the Joker than a side explanation in a Batman movie. Joker as a character is unique in that he's an interesting villain with a lot of takes on how he can be portrayed and I think a lot of people wanted to know more. The genius of Ledger's joker is how he's mysterious and yet irresistibly uncomfortable to be around, you're left wanting more and he was the clear star of the movie in the end, in what was also a very strong movie in itself. I think a movie wasn't necessary but people do want more of the creepy clown Prince of crime and this gives you another take on it. It's like Batman or James Bond, there are multiple ways of representing the character, and for the type of movie you're shooting, you can make it what you want, and allowing actors to just do what they want to do with it, works fantastically.

[@Enzaio]

@@llamaofvinter5801 I get that you enjoyed parts of it, I'm glad you did. But I think this could have been an absolute masterpiece if Phoenix was given a more interesting story to work with. My expectations were probably too high going in, because I didn't know this was the director of the Hangover movies.

[@jayr7965]

@@Enzaio My expectations were quite high too considering the early reviews. I didn't like it as much as the folks I saw it with. They loved it but they hadn't seen King of Comedy or Taxi Driver or any number of other movies it was borrowing from. I'm still a little torn on how I feel about it, it left me wanting more but not in a good way. I kind of wanted just a little more insight or a little more danger or a little more originality. At the same time it made me invested in seeing the character in a movie alongside Batman because I think it opens up the franchise to explore some more interesting, challenging themes. Something that DC movies haven't been doing at all since after The Dark Night. Weirdly enough I think future movies could retroactively put this movie in a much more interesting light.

[@vvp1229]

Just my thoughts. Great description

[@colourlessbluethings]

Sorry but when Robbie Collins asked that, JP did not walk out because he hadn't thought about the question; he's tired of it.

[@Raums]

There was no need to even mention that as this is meant to be about the movie, the media love to talk about themselves.

[@roblinnbailey2359]

The media are practically begging for something to happen during a screening.

[@james5995]

As usual the media, Collin in this instance was reaching for a "gotcha" moment and Phoenix wasn't having any of it. Come on just denounce men as evil and deliver a line about a nonexistent "incel revelation". Smart guy, glad he didn't fall for it.

[@MrDavey2010]

This is a truly remarkable movie. It’s a moving piece about those who are bereft and how society can brutalise the weakest. I was blown away by it.

[@thbssgvxxsstgv]

Is it that remarkable? It doesn't offer any insight, it doesn't analyse anything. It's almost literally a "We live in a society Bottom Text" Joker meme stretched out to feature length

[@westerling8436]

it's the king of comedy/taxi driver interpreted by a 13 year old

[@charliepanayiotou4305]

After seeing everyone lose their mind over this film over the last month (and some of the reporting has been downright irresponsible, the media actively wanting something bad to happen), I just know I'm going to come out of the cinema wondering what on earth everyone was arguing about.

[@SixteenJacobsCreams]

@cwazy345 what risk?

[@charliepanayiotou4305]

@cwazy345 Risk too high? What on earth are you on about?

[@rinwesley3092]

That’s exactly what I was thinking coming out of the movie. Ill be damned if the shrill media was going to scare me out of seeing this film.

[@paulmartin591]

Rin Wesley You fell for the marketing scheme. It’s all manufactured controversy to make people like you think the movie was somehow this subversive, profound film that “the man” doesn’t want you to see.

[@TheBlackstarrt]

Could always call the cinema and see if they will have police on standby. We had an officer at our theater door, not the front desk. The door we go and sit down.

[@Ava-pq6om]

>woke culture has killed comedy >It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia has just entered its 14th season

[@dirgramsey6132]

Ava you obviously didn’t watch the last episode 😂

[@paulmartin591]

>Joker released in theaters and makes a killing. >Jojo Rabbit, a movie about a boy who’s imaginary friend is Hitler coming soon >Yeah woke culture has killed everything REEEEEEEEEEE!

[@TheMonkeyMedicine]

It states in the movie the origins of the extreme abuse he suffered as a child, not just those currently around him, only to find out his whole life is a lie (and his own mom who he cared for was at the center of the lie). He is shattered. And you talk about cynical and nasty directors. Man you are shallow. And as far as the character, are you saying you felt no sorrow or empathy for him before he snapped? He was just pitiful? The guy had a form of tourette's due to a brain injury caused by an abuser who chained him to a radiator when he was a boy, while his mother ignored the abuse! UGHH!

[@hollowludens5861]

Did you not understand that Arthur had very severe mental issues which played into him being easily pushed to murder? Sure I felt bad for what the character has gone through, but it didn't justify his murder spree.

[@zantas-handle]

@@hollowludens5861 You're confusing empathy with justification. The comment expressed sorrow for Arthur's suffering, not justification for his crimes.

[@richardadesmond]

So in the same year we have the guy who wrote 'Hangover III' write/create 'Chernobyl', and the guy who directed 'Hangover III' write and direct 'Joker'! Awesome!!! more of that please!

[@SuperDesignermatt]

I’m still processing the film as I’ve just watched it, but i came out feeling so sad that he was driven to what he becomes by society failing him and others. It’s a powerful film and an astonishing performance by Phoenix

[@priqq1]

Sure, but is this performance as good as Tommy Wiseau's Joker???

[@Senyoln1]

Oh hi, Batman.

[@Timliu92]

Hahaha, what a story priqq **.

[@mickey_uk]

You're TEARING ME APART, Batman!

[@KonstantinosPaschalidis]

So Batman, how is your sex life?

[@horrorstateofmind2724]

the scene that got me teary is while he and his mother are watching the show and he daydreams about himself being on the show it really shows that he just wants to be accepted in society

[@MrTkeddo]

I still feel sad about River Phoenix he I’m sure would’ve been a huge star and wish nothing but greatness to any of his talented family.

[@Christian_from_Copenhagen]

That is the strangest pronunciation of "skeletal" I've ever heard.

[@lunarian9877]

Christian from Copenhagen time stamp?

[@Gnostic93]

2:30

[@terrortorn]

@@johncampbell3940 Typical English pronunciation in English, the other is American English.

[@johncampbell3940]

@@terrortorn north american - Canadians say it the same way.

[@terrortorn]

@@johncampbell3940 American English is their language, not North American English.

[@TheEyrie]

Watched and loved it for how bleak, tragic but also how (our or many versions) Joker could emerge from anything other than this. Mental illness, trauma and squallor birthing the crown prince of crime. It was disturbing but also magnetic at the same time

[@warriorpoet9629]

A film that holds up a mirror to society is.....Art. Art can be uncomfortable. Why is no one saying that?

[@mackychloe]

@Albion Mudd It goes deeper than that.

[@Rascal2006]

Seen it today (Friday) in the uk & it was fantastic!!! one of the best comic book films I’ve ever seen. Joaquin Phoenix is sensational as Arthur Fleck/Joker. the detractors are completely wrong

[@ItzTheTJChannel]

It's insulting to put this in as a "comic book" film tbh

[@thomashardcastle7231]

The detractors are wrong? What a shock..

[@RobinRawlings]

Yeah but have you actually seen taxi driver and king of comedy before, the impression I'm getting is if you have this one is easily missable?

[@james5995]

@@RobinRawlings I've seen them both and Joker does it's own thing, it borrows from those films but it's its own animal. Check it out.

[@LornaYShaw]

But how much of what we see is ‘real’ given the unreliability of Arthur’s viewpoint?

[@drunkenhowler22]

I was thinking the same thing.

[@darrenwalshe8513]

Exactly we all see things from our own perspective n we have choices

[@TNTITAN]

It’s both grounded and fantastical in its storytelling.

[@mattgreek1066]

‘ I prefer the past to be multiple choice’ The Joker, The Killing Joke

[@MrAshwinChauhan]

Utterly magnificent film. What a performance by Joachim Phoenix. Just give him the Oscar now !

[@diveshoudivoo5678]

In the first half, joker mistakenly fires the bullet in his room and suddenly the he rans towards tv to raise the volume so his mother is not afraid of that and was so embarrassed. But in the later half he killed his mother......so joker is not mentally ill. But due to excessive pain given by society he was tired within himself and was fighting the wrong guys.....who helped him reach that level of illness. JOKER is a cinema masterpiece.

[@bkizzle401]

Mark never stop reviewing movies!

[@Onmysheet]

Deal

[@Hakspheenom]

"After Heath Ledger's performance I thought no one else needs to do joker 🃏. So did I, so did I... I was wrong!" Says it all I think! Ledger set an exceptionally high bar, if anyone was going to come close it was Jaoquin. His calibre is such that we all anticipated what he would do with this role.. @joker #joker

[@moshabraf]

The people saying that the movie is pretending to be more than it is, are the real pretentious ones who love the sound of their own voices & want to come off more than they are. This movie made me empathise with the antagonist & dislike people like the Waynes who come off as snobbish, cold & condscending. This movie broke all the norms & narrative regarding the usual black & white difference between Joker & Batman. For the first time i'm in a grey area regarding as to who are the good guys and who is the villain. Well done to the writer(s) & director and hats off to Mr Phoenix.

[@BonzoBanzai]

What were people expecting ffs!!!!! A gag reel????? It's meant to make you feel uncomfortable - you've just met the Joker and not many people come away happy from that meeting in fairness. Films are meant to make you think, both good and bad.

[@JJSWEATBulkTool]

Very much like Falling Down. I was on MD's side till a certain point. JP sucked me in like he always does. He is so amazing. I will go see it again

[@mousehead2000]

I’m genuinely shocked by this movie. Shocked that a major studio had the balls to do something like this. It’s as close to the golden age of 70s Hollywood as we’re going to get.

[@AndresJames54]

The fantasy scene near the beginning with De Nero and Phoenix was simply incredible. The acting prowess of those two greats can't be overestimated. Superb performances

[@markcarey67]

I thought it was brilliant - The Joker is supposed to be amoral and apolitical as a character

[@nieval8917]

Imagine the uproar if TAXI DRIVER had been released nowadays. People would crucify it to no end. Edit: Added Driver, thanks!

[@shizackel]

What, you don't like Judd Hirsch, Danny Devito, or Andy Kaufman? J/K I know you meant "Taxi Driver".

[@dendemano]

We’re on the precipice of a fragmentary society. A key difference being that we somehow deem it acceptable, and take umbrage with those who vocally oppose what we have sanctioned, subconsciously, and that’s why it has touched a raw nerve among those of us who feel somewhat guilty about the shame inherited from our collective decision for allowing it to happen, under the pretence of righteous conduct and bereft of all indignation.

[@NigelHarperPhoto]

When I left the cinema after seeing Joker, I felt liked I'd been put through the ringer. What an intense, sad, dark movie this is! The photography, fantastic, as was the music too. It is such a powerful performance by Joaquin Phoenix, that he's got to be in for an oscar? Subtle it isn't, but a powerful, emotional movie it undeniably is!

[@bearfitness3187]

I walked out of the cinema, wanting to do good in this world. Before growth there's pain. This film is a painful reality.

[@Whalewraith]

Falling down is an intresting movie, pleased it was referenced. 1) Douglas did a superb job should have had an Oscar nomination. 2) Think it would really stir everbody up if was a new release.

[@dumfriesspearhead7398]

It stirred people up at the time as well. Social media would ramp things up now, admittedly.

[@brucegorham6097]

Twice, the reviewer says, "no one" thought Arthur Fleck was funny. But, Fleck made the child on the train laugh, and he made the children in the hospital laugh. Fleck is still a captive child (tied to the radiator). His "unsophisticated" humor is simply childlike.

[@dasein9980]

Great point

[@JohanIsraelsson]

Great review. Thank you. I left the movie theater unable to calm down for hours. As Arthur was sitting in the police car, and White Room started playing... It was a unique, singular experience for me, possibly the strongest movie scene I've ever experienced. I adore Joker.

[@tylerdavis976]

Johan Israelsson from that point to the end of the movie is epic

[@lukeannett]

There's no narcism there. It is nihilism. The Joker stated it, it is a comedy in the tragic sense.

[@donna25871]

I’m going to watch King of Comedy before seeing this. Haven’t seen it for years.

[@horrorstateofmind2724]

And Taxi Driver and you were never really there is also a good film with Phoenix also now that one is a slow 🔥

[@Vidrageon]

j mula it’s super polarising. It’s an art house movie and nothing makes sense. With that in mind, I thoroughly enjoyed it and phoenixs performance.

[@DarthQueefious]

Before the 'incel' nonsense got pushed by certain media outlets nearly every critic was positive, if not incredibly positive,about the film. Too many critics are as much political activist as they are critic these days and it's hurting film criticism as a whole. I now only take seriously 1 or 2 critics

[@paulmartin591]

It got some negative reviews at Venice. It has a 70% on RT though so maybe don’t panic so much. Not everyone is so impressed and I’d have to agree. It was fine.

[@paulmartin591]

Useful Vidiots So the movie delves into political themes but people are allowed to make political observations about it? Maybe don’t be so sensitive about other people’s politics.

[@emmaprocter4062]

I've had time to really think about Joker and I've watched it about 5 times. Honestly I think it's a masterpiece and will be more appreciated in the years ahead. There's something about the whole subway train attack scene (including the harassed girl) that was utterly profound.

[@wet-read]

Ok. I strongly disagree with all of that, and would love to discuss it with you if you are willing.

[@luciengrondin5802]

Imagine a Batman origin movie in the continuity of this one and being that good.

[@LukefromDubai]

We can only hope.

[@truthteller4689]

I wish this review was 30 minutes long.

[@hgbnkbggj2915]

Yes it was an amazingly skilled review. Much respect for Kermode.

[@MasterCrumble]

I wish it wasn't 480p like a youtube video from 2009.

[@truthteller4689]

@@MasterCrumble Actually I wish the review was twice as long as the movie. 😂

[@joshwalls9923]

I couldn't disagree more about being sympathetic towards Arthur. Anybody who sees this film and has a family member or knows anybody with a mental illness will more than likely see it through the person they know's eyes. He is constantly being beaten down and he even acknowledges that he has an unusual condition, so when people stare he has a card so he can explain himself. That guy laughing at nothing on the bus? He is crying his soul out because he can't express himself any different. It is a true tragedy and I can't help but see parallels between him and my cousin who was actually beaten as a child and now has mental disabilities. Joker does a great job at letting you in on their perspective, Arthur dreams hard and trys hard to be a comedian but he just can't do it. He is beaten and berated for being different along with getting his meds and support cut off, these things made him snap. When he did he enjoyed it and that is what made him dangerous. I felt great sympathy for Arthur Fleck.

[@DDChorror]

Empathy maybe..sympathy implies you agree with his actions

[@beldiman5870]

The idea with a card that explains his condition to others is good, apart from the fact that it was written in italian, not a widespread language.

[@joshwalls9923]

Bel Diman I dont remember it being in Italian, I remember it saying Please excuse my laughter or something like that.

[@ShinkuGouki]

@@DDChorror What school taught you the meanings of those words?? Empathy is sharing emotions,Sympathy is feeling sorry for the hardships of another.

[@ShinkuGouki]

@@beldiman5870 You saw a bootleg 🤣🤣🤣

[@makerstudios5456]

Woke culture has definitely negatively affected the arts and comedy in particular. Comedy in particular because it’s the form that relies on freedom of expression and thought more heavily than any other. It’s strange that an art critic wouldn’t see this as obvious. Why else would so many diverse creators be complaining about the stifling nature of woke culture? Jerry Seinfeld is about as milquetoast as it gets and has said as much.

[@ChrisJames-gv9wy]

Glad someone mentioned Seinfeld. He was the first of the major comedians I heard complaining about the atmosphere on U.S. campuses and that he no longer wished to perform them.

[@harryhindle6917]

Depends on what type of comedy you like. I'd imagine that Kermode disagrees with that assessment because he dislikes "nasty" comedy. The best comedy has always existed outside of current affairs and personal views, either messing with the audience/medium or parodying human vices... or it's just pure inanity.

[@makerstudios5456]

Harry a Jerry Seinfeld is the opposite of “nasty” comedy. He’s said the same things as Chapelle and Philips.

[@dudestep]

I wish woke culture would stop Jerry Seinfeld. Hes not funny.

[@makerstudios5456]

The Fighter Congratulations. You are exactly the problem.

[@ironmouse4152]

Critics hated it because this movie dares to talk s*** about their corporate bosses. Elitist want to skirt responsibility. The more power you have, the greater responsibility. Joker wasn't narcissistic at all, nor did he intentionally create the riot, the rioters created him. Murder count was only 3 revenge kill. The first 3 subway kill was self defense. Taxi driver's character and Joker have totally different motivations. Joker said it, he wasn't doing it for a cause, which Taxi driver's character was. The 2 movies are similar only aesthetically.

[@nifralo2752]

Legally he the frist 2 he killed on the subway were self defence but when he chased after the wounded third banker and shot him at point blank range that is murder legally. And he kills the TV host and the clown who gave him the gun and his mother. So a 4 person murder count. Less than 12 people are killed in the whole film which us low for a modern movie.

[@67lionsoflisbon37]

Watched it recently on dvd. Excellent film. Phoenix is exceptional.

[@MirrorMonolith]

Mark, you’re one of the good ones. Don’t start pandering to the establishment now. Woke culture is absolutely killing comedy and you damn well know it.

[@natelynch4622]

You didn't even acknowledge the mental health aspect of the movie which was Major and Central to the movie. The man was on seven different medications

[@VCCassidy]

Mark kermode continues to be a tremendously valuable voice in criticism. This review is spot on.

[@ruthkimi1]

What a story, Mark.

[@swalker3175]

I think that Mark was too preoccupied with the fact that the director had done The Hangover movies. He seemed to have an almost snobby assumption that this would somehow not enable him to produce something different (although Mark then equates the tone of Joker with these movies). It would have been interesting to see how the review would have been different if he had not known who the director was and had not had the baggage of judging an single film partly on an unrelated franchise of films.

[@MisterBump73]

Been looking forward to this review!

[@JK_JK_JK_JK]

Same 🙄

[@mridulchhibber]

Indeed

[@kevinbaldwin4816]

he's is the best

[@JoseAndradejayrock]

I actually found the film to be brave and thoughtful in the topic of mental illness and felt it was a powerful undercurrent of the film. I also felt it took an amazing leap from current comic book movies and brought it to a more realistic and as such a more relevant way towards a figure we can all relate to or at least understand. Joaquin Phoenix was absolutely brilliant and embraced the JOKER's tragedy.

[@michaeldonovan4793]

not since taxi driver and clockwork orange has there been a masterpiece film of such cold brutality...brilliant, unnerving and ultimately despairing, a bleak, true reflection of these times we're in...

[@spice3767]

I’ve enjoyed this film more after watching it and having time to think about it. For me I think I’ll enjoy the second viewing more than the first. JP is awesome

[@johns123]

This is the first blockbuster in 10 years that I've actually been hyped for. Such a great film.

[@SMX815]

Joker is one the most outstanding 5 star films I seen a long time 👍

[@ichigoya84]

Joker? I barely know her!

[@aidanrogers4438]

Was Phoenix a better Joker than Ledger? In my opinion, no. But it was a great performance, as with all the other Jokers we’ve had, it’s a different interpretation than past ones. A performance that is very grounded in reality and one that makes it completely believable how someone could feasibly become the Joker.

[@SACH316-f5c]

Love that . Btw it will be interesting how critics and fans compare them. Who was this and that but I will say that Heath didn't have that luxury of a R rating lol. I actually think had he been alive perhaps we would have seen his very OWN joker film rip. I think Joaquin was more real because of the society aspect. They are both mesmerizing performances that are basically historic so win-win.