Pinion Angle and Driveline Angles for Drag Racing

[@kevinadcock4671]

I actually attended a spicer demo over 20 years ago, and saw the same demonstration in person. They even handed out slide rule calculators for all of this information. I really wish I still had them!!!

[@bmxbowhunter99]

Kevin your style of teaching is how I was taught in Autmotive class while in highscool . I left craving more , and your KZbin is everything I've needed. I know all of us fans, cannot thank you enough 💯

[@dalelockett2619]

Excellent Stuff!!! Even for street usage........this non-uniform velocity misalignment issue is the main cause\contributor of most all driveline failures under load IMHO. Thanks for posting this.............even 1 yr later!

[@michaelhancock6565]

I just wanted to thank you for your videos they have help me a lot

[@nathaninwa240z]

Years ago I did a street car with an engine swap and fought driveshaft with offset compound issues. Because of the tunnel the solution was a ujoint at the trans with a 1/2 degree working angle and the next two joints became a cv joint. I spent a long time and lots of money figuring that out! I learned from that lesson to build cars from the rear first. Set the differential at ride height in the chassis then build a mock-up driveshaft and place the engine paying attention to joint and working angles. As your videos described a lot of people don’t quite understand this, or other videos I watch only talk about the rear joint and never reference the front joint! Great video and Awsome explanation. Love your channel and enjoy the small tire 4 link stuff.

[@wintermachine]

Thank you. Ive been wanting to learn about this for a very long time.

[@stevelangworthy9553]

Perfect timing for this discussion. Thanks Kevin!

[@onehourgarage]

Thanks for all your videos! I've learned a ton. I got my car race condition right at the end of the season here in New England and only made it to the track twice. On a 3000 to 3200lbs foxbody with roughly 490-500 hp I went from a 1.78 to a 1.49 60' in two trips and some simple changes I made with stuff I learned watching your channel. I can't Thank you enough!

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Boom. This is why I have my channel!!! Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@gregsmith9457]

Thank you for your time and knowledge. All your videos have important information. I look forward to each one.

[@andrewthorpe6995]

really good videos helped me straighten my car right out

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Great to hear! Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@jcnpresser]

You talk about centering the engine in the chassis. I’d say that’s a pretty big deal for the car going straight, and most cars the engine offset if not all cars, from the factory, to the passenger side. Nice information, I smell what your stepping in! 😆✋

[@chuckwaters4169]

Super informative Kevin. These are the kind of details that are needed to find every .01 in something like a stock eliminator car. Thanks...nice job

[@therageezick]

Kevin thank you so much for your informative videos. coming from zero knowledge I do appreciate going into details that I should know

[@YerkitRacingChannel]

Appreciate you sharing you knowledge with us!

[@CUTTERUPROB]

Great info kevin

[@thgilne5060]

Dang dude you have lost a lot of weight from last year videos. Ive watched a few today. Last one was the video on Viking shocks and dang dude you are looking good!

[@Krypten_CCK]

Great Video as always Kevin!

[@momentummotorsports6137]

Always a great video with great explanations thank you. You have tought me a ton so thank you very much

[@shanemcmillion2618]

Thank you for your time and work and information

[@russellramsey8389]

Thanks so much for this video, once again I learned a bunch of new stuff :)

[@guillermodavila9397]

Thanks for your knowledge I learned something today profesor 👍

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

My pleasure! Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@lazyhoundracing9621]

Great explanation.

[@supercharged6771]

I use a laser pointer on the output of the of the trans and shim until its centered on the pinion, and i perfur the ball and socket connections on the headars

[@mathewfeiffer1478]

So theoretically if you had no suspension would you want 0° 0° 0°?

[@biggpoppaz28]

Very informative as always thank you sir.

[@JCMakerspace]

Spot on

[@barneysmonte]

Great Video.

[@AbdulazizAlfaris-c8g]

Thanks 👍

[@jamieknight9636]

Thx Kevin

[@keysautorepair6038]

I had to add a 1/4 in spacer on my Trans mount trust me it makes a difference.

[@jcasey460]

Hi Kevin...nice vid thanks

[@bobmoore4790]

Good video

[@codyblack5490]

If im understanding this correctly. My engine and trans are at 2 degrees positive. Sloping down to the rear Driveshaft is at 2 degrees positive. My rear is at 3.-3.5 degrees negative I have a working angle of about. 0?. Simulated Under load with the rear end separated and the front end up?

[@mxguy2438]

On point Kevin. You really covered the major points. May I add, operating angle is the actual angle the u joint works within, not just in the vertical plane, so side to side position also plays. It takes trig to calculate it so the math will be a little beyond most... These days, I take the dimensions down and use CAD to show me the angles. Its easier and eliminates mistakes. If the diff/trans aren't offset much, the side to side offset is a minor player and can be ignored. Also can you confirm or dispel a rumor I've heard passed around? That some deviation from zero, is required as far as the bearings are concerned? I've seen this passed around for years but can't find a reputable source for a u joint manufacturer. Another myth you could address is the use of pinion angle to change "bite".

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

In my opinion the correct pinion angle absolutely creates "bite", but going to "more" pinion angle has major diminishing returns and actually leads to non-uniform velocities. So in short, a car with no pinion angle factored in will do better with the proper pinion angle. But adding more beyond "proper" doesn't help bite and actually hurts you. What do you mean by "some deviation from zero is required"? Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@mxguy2438]

The story is, there is a minimum operating angle. if there is not enough operating angle the bearings don't rotate and it creates excessive wear in a narrow area. I went looking for manufacturer info on it but couldn't find it. Saw it referenced in a car magazine and its been passed around forums, etc. Keep the shiny side up!

[@patrickmoran8790]

The answer on minimal u-joint angle for needle rotation is 1/2 degree of angle. I’m quoting Dana Spicer On pinion down for traction, that applies to dirt track, and some will try to go too far nose down to cause the u-joint cross to melt and fail because of the heat generated by the extreme. 32 years of building driveshafts, correcting manufacturing and modification mistakes, plus race cars and custom cars.

[@mxguy2438]

@@patrickmoran8790 I'm looking for a reference. Is the quote something that was captured from a video or on their website? On the pinion down thing, I've also heard drag racing guys say this. Also looking for a reference, or maybe an explanation an engineer would understand.

[@generalsixty2133]

Video of the pinion under load would be good tuning data.

[@Anarchy-Is-Liberty]

OK, we've got "big tire slick" cars, and we've got "radial tire" cars, what about people like me who are running little 28x10" drag slicks? I'm actually building a gasser style car, so the front of my car is going to be jacked up in the air a bit. I'm assuming the important thing is to try and keep the driveline angles as straight as possible under load regardless? Thanks Kevin, love your videos.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Yes. Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@jtj8623]

How does this effect how horsepower is put or how the chassis react

[@st8jkt69]

Is 3.5-4.5deg still the goal for a split mono leaf/traction and ARB bar car?

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

That is a good place to start. Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@st8jkt69]

Much appreciated 🙏

[@yinzer_412_]

I’m building a 275 radial torque arm car and it’s tough to get the driveline angles correct at ride height and adjust for 6” of separation while going 180 mph. I may have to compromise ride height angle for 6” separation angle.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

for sure... it is a balancing act at times to get all this working together... Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@jrsgarage3244]

Can you talk about adding 200lbs to 500 lb of weight in a no prep small tire car versus tuning the chassi❓ How much weight or no weight ❓🚩😕

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJipq2OMrceEe8Usi=jnaHy5kDI-b2dLTk

[@rustywater3219]

Are 3 link cars about the same considerations as 4 link cars?

[@jcnewbee8124]

If I have a 1967 fairlane stocker and the 390 c4 is in at 2.5 down what is my pinion angle with caltrac bar and mono leafs....I want 2.5 negative pinion angle?

[@joshuas.4967]

Do you Zero your degree finder to the chassis?

[@mikesauer7775]

One problem I've noticed with handling issues on hot street rods is the Ford 9"being offset 2-3" to the RH side, modifying typical pinion angle to get drive shaft clearance in the tunnel. Sorry not drag cars.

[@wescollins]

What about a hard tail (solid mount rear end) on a altered roadster what would be pinion angle with motor plate and mid plate need to be at

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

The main thing is that the pinion angle and motor/trans angles follow the operating angle rules to not introduce non-uniform velocities. So if the motor is pointing up 1 degree from the front to the rear, then pinion needs to be 1.5 - 2 degrees down. Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@jamestorline3965]

Thanks for info Kevin

[@phillipchastain2295]

This comes back to squat set vs anti squat. How does it transfer and what will end up with all the power pushing where you want (just a little up to keep rears planted).

[@phillipchastain2295]

I could be wrong, I have some experience with the maths, not application.

[@phillipchastain2295]

The pinion angle is sprung weight righr? So it shifts heavily dependant on tuning. That means you have to change those angles for every rear end change, right?

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

You do have to confirm/reset pinion angle after each change. Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@fredg6607]

Kevin How does crankshaft centerline height effect the working angles?

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Depending on how the trans is mounted, if you raise or lower the crankshaft in the front of the motor it changes the centerline angle of the engine/trans. The only time it doesn't change is if you raise/lower the crankshaft height together with the trans output shaft height. Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@LegacyGarage]

So is trans .9 down towards the rear, and the pinion .8 down towards trans bad enough to need to change, and is only .8 rear not enough and would that effect the hook.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Sorry, but I would need to know a bunch more about the car and suspension and use case to answer that one. Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@LegacyGarage]

@@KevinWilsonSBC 4 link sbc/pg 9.20s 1.25 60

[@ryanwatson5373]

When you say 4 link, can this be applied to stock style g body triangulated 4 link? Or are we talking parallel 4 links?

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Same applied to triangulated 4 links. Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@crazees]

Crank height and type of rear end dictates working angles. 9in pinion is a lot lower than an 8.8, Dana or GM 10 /12 bolt.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Those definitely play a part but I believe more factors are in play. Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!