Kia Mazeed Dams Faida-mand Hain? | Dr. Hasan Abbas, Shakil Durrani and Wussatullah Khan

کیا مزید ڈیم فائدہ مند ہیں؟
یہ بات کس حد تک درست ہے کہ پاکستان میں پانی کی قلت ہے اور کیا حقیقت پسندانہ تجزیہ کرتے ہوئے اس مسئلے کی درست تشخیص کی گئی ہے؟ کیا پاکستان کو واقعی مزید اور بڑے ڈیموں کی ضرورت ہے یا پانی کو ذخیرہ کرنے کا کوئی متبادل اور بہتر حل ممکن ہے؟ ”بات سے بات“ کے اس سیشن میں ہم انہی سوالوں کے جواب ڈھونڈیں گے۔
پینل ڈسکشن کے لئے ہمارے ساتھ موجود ہیں آبی امور کے ماہر ڈاکٹر حسن عباس اور سابق چیئرمین واپڈا شکیل درانی۔ اس سیشن کی نظامت معروف صحافی اور کالم نگار وسعت اللہ خان کر رہے ہیں۔

[@aqeelqureshi4964]

One of the best informative video regarding Pakistan's river system.

[@WhoOneIs]

A hot (passionate) debate on a wet subject. A riveting, informative discussion on rivers, geology, hydrology, economics, history, politics and climate change. A thoroughly enjoyable and educational debate, one of the best on The Black Hole.

[@eshratfatima4718]

Such a great, educating enlighteninh and, thought provoking video

[@muzaffariqbal3750]

Shakil durani is a very beautiful example of our beaurocratic system after a long long experience ill informed and against the changes

[@AcedReza]

Super glad to be watching this on your youtube channel. Kudos to the effort of organizing such debates and bringing them to the public circle.

[@rakeshsaini3716]

Very informative discussion. Excellent show👍

[@daanishkhurshid9636]

Excellent discussion, very informative for people who don't know much about this topic and just hear stuff in the main stream. Really enjoyed listening...

[@khalilahmad3818]

I love wusatullah Khan and the way he disects the problems

[@ramanv.r3422]

And only 9 comments. And 3 replies including mine.🤔

[@tariqshabirbhatti4793]

Complete discussion is win by Dr. Hassan Abbas scientific and logical mind person.. Pakistan should learn from Dr. Hassan Abbas.. Other side saving status quo (Pakistan's bureaucrats mind set who do nothing except continue old setup and things)..

[@haroonbaig5674]

I m 100% agreed wd Dr.sahab we dot need any dam now...biggest stake holder is World Bank...so using of river bed aquifer is best idea.

[@gosliglitzho]

Question is even if you want dam are you capable of building one? its like a beggar saying "I don't need ferrari, its not very feasible mode of transport" 😂

[@haroonbaig5674]

@@gosliglitzho yeh we dont need n old ferrari when we have a better n latest car than it.

[@gosliglitzho]

@@haroonbaig5674 Yes like 600 cc mehran. 👍🏻

[@haroonbaig5674]

@@gosliglitzho u won..now happy!

[@jess-qe5ed]

this is the BBC journalist who read news like poem. I like that style.

[@farazakbar87]

Excellent debate, conducted largely in a very civil manner. The complete opposite of “debates” shown every day on the mainstream news channels. The only sad part was that Mr. Durrani seemed to get upset whenever he was negated by a sound rebuttal from Dr. Abbas. For such a seasoned bureaucrat, it doesn’t bode well if he has to pass snide remarks or belittle Dr. Abbas’ research and theory. If the doctor is presenting a theory i.e. there’s a lot of clean water under the river bed, Mr. Durrani could’ve just said “yes it’s interesting and we should explore it”. There was no need to scoff at such claims. For a completely unbiased viewer (as I was since I had no idea or opinion on this subject), it seemed Dr. Abbas won the debate because he presented well structured and researched views, and also responded to specific points made by Mr. Durrani with specific research and logic. Whereas on the other hand, when Mr. Durrani had to respond to any challenge thrown by Dr. Abbas, he either said it was untrue without giving any evidence why it was untrue, or largely just ignored him. But anyways, many thanks to the TBH team for setting up this debate, and I hope they continue to do so.

[@aasho07]

Exactly, I felt that as well. Dr sahab is actually from that field and Durrani sahab is not an academic in the field, that's a huge problem with bureaucracy. There is no specialization for these civil servants and a bureaucrat can be running railways on one day and agruicultural department the next day and are selected on the basis of the CSS exam which in itself is quite astounding as it is one size fit all kind of a solution that doesn't actually work.

[@aliaghaus1670]

I agree that Dr Abbas presented throughly researched and reasoned arguments. On the other hand Durrani sahib was on the defensive and tried to bully and belittle Dr Abbas. It looked as if he is not used to anyone negating his views. Reason and logic could not persuade him. I agree with Dr Abbas that lot of people have vested interest and are going to make lot of money out of these big projects. They will appose people like Dr Abbas. Very sad.

[@ufaqkaiypaar5318]

ڈاکٹر حسن عباس اور شکیل درانی بہترین وضاحت ۔

[@rashidlatif8871]

such a great discussion but only 1k views.

[@rajeshpatil6463]

Dr. Hasan, you provedvthe ground water hold mathematically woderfully

[@nasirahmed5938]

Dr H. Abbas sir you are great , bohat achi baten huee hen, riverbed reserve wali baat bhi interesting he , irrigation department men jo kuch hota he us men aksar Pakistan ko beeche chor diya jata he aur , ......

[@sultanaram8095]

वुस्तुल्लाह खान बीबीसी वाले क्या खूब रिपोर्टर है। अपने चुटीले अंदाज में व्यंग्य करते हैं हालाते हाजरा पर । मैं ऐसी रिपोर्टिंग पसंद करता है।

[@haroonbaig5674]

Excellent discussion.

[@dugyan]

Saw Shakeel Chaudhary sitting next to Dr Hoodbhoy! Great program!

[@aasho07]

Excellent. Learned a lot from Dr Hasan Sb and it made a lot of sense as well. We can make do with run of the river projects to generate electricity and draw water from river bed but the question remains if that is going to be sustainable in the long run or not. Also climate change also kind of makes the argument to build dams, so to store excess water when baseline river flows would dwindle due to decrease glacial output. But all in all a great debate and would like to learn a lot more in the future with this channel.

[@rajeshpatil6463]

You too project the point nicely

[@rmzk1783]

Dr Abbas's scientific approach contrasts with Mr Durrani's pragmatic approach which is perhaps explained by their backgrounds. Satellite image of the Indus shows a large flood plain suggesting that it may have been a much larger river in the past. There is no doubt that with melting glaciers and increased rains due to GW the Indus level will rise. The problem is that the sea level rise will cause loss of river delta if dams are built to control the river and conserve water. Engineering solutions required may sadly be beyond the financial means or expertise of PK.

[@rayraja7411]

Pakistan need a huge projects to change canal flood irrigation system with drip irrigation system . Make a map of concrete pond storage system connected with irrigation lines in every corner of country . With precise drip irrigation system pakistan can bring millions of acres land under cultivation in cholistan , thul , south kpk , Sindh & Baluchistan

[@B2359]

Yes but as Shahkeel Durani mentioned, it’s expensive like 2 lac per acre is the cost. On the other hand, Pakistan gives water for free - why would people care about saving water when it’s not metered?

[@nowie4007]

Thank you sir for this debate, it was very informative to listen to ❤️

[@intersalman]

Great discussion.

[@fchaudhry3764]

Thought provoking debate, we don’t think about environmental/ecological problems of dams.

[@muzaffariqbal3750]

Very good argument about use of water Kashmiri Muslim because water of Chenab and Jhelum is also Muslim

[@Rizwan-Ali]

Problem yeh k Dr Hasan k plans 20-30 years k hain, educate people and natural ways etc but do anyone think this nation can survive another 3 decades?? we need to adapt both models, also the most importance GOVERNANCE, GOVERNANCE, and GOVERNANCE.

[@SkepticalKhan]

The intelligencia of pakistan, keep it up

[@WaqarHabib91]

Agree with Hassan Abbas ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, we have agri land in Kacha area of Kashmor(Sindh), it's sandy on both sides of the river and ground water is pure, have witnessed it myself.

[@AkbarAli-cr2yh]

Waterlogged area in Sindh was a wrong cropping pattern and now after using hybrid crops the problem of waterlogging is now totally went off and now been able to get Rabi crops on those lands like wheat.

[@krupadave1975]

Interesting discussion on such a dry subject.

[@ashfaqhamdani2953]

Giving some %age of water to Kashmiri Muslims is the well Come step.. But what about the water being used by Hindus in Jammu and Buddhists in Ladakh? Durrani sahib has conveniently dragged the water into religion and I wouldn't be surprised if the Air is also dragged into the Religion in future.

[@pagan-540]

Best comment in the comment section. Minute nuance, predilection of the debater, picked up.

[@user-jk1wl9sq1d]

Abhe oye indus ka pani bhi rukvana hai kya tune

[@Raj-dg5zw]

the host is really good at his job. keeping debate on points and well informed

[@rajeshpatil6463]

True, very good moderator

[@AkbarAli-cr2yh]

Punjab is extracting 99 percent of ground water excluding it's share of surface water. KB dam is envisaged a dam cum barrage as 2 canals proposed for Punjab and KPK.

[@mudassarahmad3298]

Where do you record this program? How can one attend this in person?

[@asadchandio7815]

درانی صاحب کے رائے ایک بیوروکریٹ کی ہے اور ڈاکٹر صاحب کی ایپروچ ایک سائنٹسٹ کی ہے

[@alihaiddr5995]

Dr Hassan Please through a practical idea. I am convinced that we must think out of the box but who will bring the change in this bleeding system where Punjab and Sindh are blaming each other over inflow measurement

[@dr.bashirahmad9961]

Yellow River can't be diverted to Gobi Desert. Yangzi river can be diverted.

[@humairali118]

Sir please one more session on water about Pakistan's water apportionment accord of 1991 and why this narrative is build that sindh is not received his assigned share of water and link of dams with this treaty. Thanks!

[@sindtaswatercouncilpakistan]

دریائے سندھ اور جہلم میں مارچ سے لے کر 15 مئی تک پانی کتنا آتا ہے؟ اس دوران صوبہ سندھ میں خریف کی فصل شروع ہو جاتی ہے ۔ مجھے بتایا جائے اگر منگلا اور تربیلا ڈیم نہ ہوں تو سندھ میں خریف کی بوائی کے لئے پانی کہاں سے آئے گا۔

[@sonachenab]

Never heard this type of intelligence discussion in India... As a human I thanks you...

[@sindtaswatercouncilpakistan]

سرہند کینال 1873 میں بنی، اس وقت سندھ کی حکومت کہاں تھی

[@qazwsx25321]

Modern tech ke. Liye. Bhi. Padhyi karni. Padti. Hai. Need. Science

[@fayazulkarimmemon5701]

Pervez hoodbhai zindabad.

[@muzaffariqbal3750]

جب آپ اپنے تجربات کی بات کرتے ہیں تومایوس کرتے ہیں حُسن کو مشورہ دیتے ہیں کہ planning commission کو جاَ ئییں

[@unmuktyatree8200]

Feasibility studies in fav of Dam/other needs to be funded else these discussions create confusion

[@sufeerahmadshaikh8362]

پاکستان میں تعلیم کی بہت کمی ۔۔🇮🇳

[@sindtaswatercouncilpakistan]

دریاؤں کو دیکھیں تو دریاؤں کے دونوں طرف صرف 4/5 میل تک گراؤنڈ واٹر بہتر ھے ۔ باقی علاقوں والے کیا بھاڑ میں جائیں گے۔

[@muhammadshaikh7689]

1:47:45 what durrani Sahab is essentially arguing that right now we are pumping 50 million acre feet of underground water...but since he is arguing for the sake of argument only and ignores the fact that they are extracting TOXIC AND SALT water.

[@raheelkamran3867]

Arrogance of Durrani Sb makes it evident that why our bureaucracy is what it is

[@mnaveed54]

Mr. Durrani has not shown an iota of willingness to try to understand the perspective of Dr Hassan Abbas. The "Main na Manun" approach of our bureaucrats is really disturbing.

[@madanhawaldar9950]

Shakeel saab is present in audience

[@Shrimpspiration]

Very sad to see the decorum of the debate in this video. Noone should be allowed to talk over anyone, or shout.

[@WaqarHabib91]

Or else they should be shot in your opinion?

[@mehmoodalam2618]

Actullay Hassan Abbas is a lover of old time rivers. He is expressing emotions under the cover of scientific ways.

[@Shrimpspiration]

If everything was balanced, why was Sindh, and most of Punjab a desert before Tarbella, why was Pakistan a net food importer before Tarbella?

[@muhammadshaikh7689]

The saying that you cannot teach old dogs new tricks is so true. I may seem to be rude but The older gentleman ( segment 1:41) is talking rubbish to the solution given by Dr Abbas of getting over the debate by drilling test wells every km. On a lighter note the older gentleman should not talk with such arrogance and disregard to the guest speaker Dr Abbas. They have played their innings and have a few years to go. They are not concerned if the sea level may rise 8 inches 50 years from today.

[@SamiIsmail-nh3id]

سنڌ ۾ پاڻي جي شديد کوٽ آھي ۔ ڄامشورو پل تي درياھ جا در بند آھن ۔ ڄامشورو کان ڪيٽيبندر تاءين درياھ جو پاڻي نٿو پھچي انسان جانور آبيزندگي متاثر ٿءي ٿي ۔ مھمانن ۾ ڪو سنڌي ب شامل ڪيو وڃي ھا ۔ ھتي گٽرن جو اخراج درياھ ۾ ٿءي ٿو ۔

[@mdhassan9197]

I think we need more Generals than Dams for improvement of Pakistan.

[@nomadic_baloch]

آمر خان انڈین ایکٹر نے پانی فاؤنڈیشن نامی ایک سسٹم متعارف کرایا جس طریقے سے بیرانی علاقوں میں کام کیے اور وہاں پانی کا مسئلہ حل کیا اس سے فلڈ کنٹرول بھی ہوتا ہے اور خشکی کا بھی خاتمہ ہو سکتا ہے بڑے ڈیم کی جگہ چھوٹے چھوٹے ڈیم بناکر بہت سے مسائل حل ہو سکتے ہیں

[@ismathussain7671]

Save water please ❤🎉😢😅😮

[@Danial.999]

This old man in the discussion panel (Shakil Durrani) is crooked to the core. From his arguments it is clear that he is speaking for the interests of the influentials and not for the general public. Mr. Durrani will surely not behave in such a manner (interrupting Dr. Abbas repeatedly, negating his argument without evidence and trying to belittle him with other pathetic tactics) if the same talk is happening on a western forum, here he knows very well how to appeal the majority of public who is not that literate to understand the logical arguments of Dr. Abbas.

[@sindtaswatercouncilpakistan]

ڈاکٹر صاحب اپنی بات پر عمل درآمد سندھ سے کروائیں ۔ اس کے لئے گدو سکھر اور کوٹری بیراج کو بند کر دیں تاکہ سندھ میں زراعت بہتر ہو جائے ۔ سندھ کی عوام خود ہی ڈاکٹر صاحب کو دھکے دے کر باہر نکال دیں گے۔

[@haroonbaig5674]

Dam is in da interest of world bank.

[@ismathussain7671]

Please don’t waste water 💦 ❤

[@Poison_Top]

is jahal ko itna pata nahi ke aaj bi fiber optics network sabse acha hai or aaj bi world mein new lgaya ja raha hai

[@kashifzaheer7804]

pani ka daroga 😊

[@dugyan]

Durrani saab is a big fan of Ayub. Apparently, after Ayub things went to hell in a handbasket in Pakistan. Pashtun aika zindabad!

[@alihaiddr5995]

50 MAF water escaped below KOTRI if u had 2 dams u had done a lot better

[@nomadic_baloch]

حسن عباس کی بات مجھے تو کچھ بھی حل کی طرف نظر نہیں آئے،. میرے کچھ سوال ہیں جب پاکستان میں مہینے بارش ہو رہی ہو تو اس پانی کو اگلے نو ماہ تک کہاں سٹور کروں اگر سٹور نہ کروں تو کیسے پانی کا استعمال ممکن ہے؟ اگر سارا پانی ایک سے 3 مہینے میں سارا پانی اور ملٹ یا مٹی بھی ساتھ لے کر سمندر میں ڈبو دیں تو باقی 9 ماہ تک چھڑکریں بجائیں؟

[@sindtaswatercouncilpakistan]

اس سال 40 ملین ایکڑ فٹ سے زائد پانی سمندر میں گرا۔ بتا سکتے ہیں کہ کتنی زمین سمندر سے واپس لی۔

[@sindtaswatercouncilpakistan]

ڈاکٹر صاحب اللہ کا نام لیں۔ گراؤنڈ واٹر صرف پنجاب میں پانی بہتر ھے ۔ سندھ میں تو زیادہ تر بریش واٹر ہے۔

[@faridlodhi7242]

Let guests speak more.

[@ufaqkaiypaar5318]

پاکستان میں ، انگلش بطورلازمی مضمون ختم ردیں آپ کا بچہ ڈراپ آؤٹ نہیں ہو گا اور لٹریسی ریٹ بڑھ جائے گا ۔

[@v.kpareek790]

Phoj hi kha gai Pakistan ko

[@rajeshpatil6463]

Shame on Durrani on you, that ypu said Jhelum water in Kashmir area is being used by Muslims of Indian Kashmir, why not Hibfus of Indian Kashmir are not legitimate owner of this Jhelum river water. Hell with the Pakistani bureaucrats like you & pakistani think tanksm

[@mazharmemon]

Shakil durrani aik typical beurocrate hay, ayub khan ka fan bhi hay oor uska ooper ka hissa khali hay, jis taraha woh ghusey main aa raha hay woh samagh main aata hay kiyon kay poori umer usney yahi kuch kiya hoga oor zahir hay usko jawab dainey wala koee naheen hoga, Pakistan aaj jis barbadi kee kinarey khara hay usmain Durrani jaisey jahil oor bad dimagh bandoon ka buhut bara hath hay.

[@abdulmateen157]

Dr Hassan Abbas is imposing impractical biased fictional opinion, whereas Shakil Durrani has valid indepth conditional, situational point of view.

[@Shrimpspiration]

Not only that, he is shouting.

[@WaqarHabib91]

I disagree with you COMPLETELY! I'm a farmer and can tell from the discussion that Dr hassan Abbas is telling the truth. It's you, who's so far from truth intentionally or unintentionally that you can't even comprehend...

[@WaqarHabib91]

@@Shrimpspiration use cotton buds to dampen your ears, they seem hypersensitive, this condition can cause issues in loud places you know.

[@B2359]

@@WaqarHabib91 I am a farmer too from KPK with farms next to an industrial estate. The entire village ground water is massively polluted from the industry- it actually smells. Once the water is tainted - it’s unless for farming. We don’t want to grow toxic crops on it (we grow wheat, peas, oranges). So ground water is a no go- we need cleaner water like from a dam. Dr. Hassan kept quoting books - this person said this and this gora said this. But when asked if those people did a broad data based study of our underground water sources, he got angry. I found that surprising as most professors should be used to grilling questions and answer them appropriately. He didn’t but lashed out at the person answering the question. Mr. Shahkeel Durani is a seasoned professional who had more knowledge of the ground realities. We can’t take a risk with our future and not built dams in the hope that we have plenty of ground water and it’s not toxic. Even diverting river water has massive impact on the river ecosystem.

[@Danial.999]

The one who back his claim with arguments is not the one who is imposing his opinion, it was Mr. Durrani who was trying to belittle Mr. Abbas because he had no arguments and was trying to impose his opinion. Mr. Durrani was using TV talk shows anchors tactics to instigate Mr. Abbas by repeatedly interrupting him whenever he was talking and tried other such pathetic tactics to win the debate when he had no argument to back his opinion.

[@usamifyl]

I hope wapda guy gets fired. 15 years in the industry and still blames govt. What was he doing in such high posts

[@mnaveed54]

This guy has already retired. Not only this guy held position of Wapda he was the chief secretary of some provinces as well. He has rightly pointed out that one of the core issues of Pakistan is governance. The youth should now understand that if such guys are selected to such key positions our governance will always be compromised.

[@rayraja7411]

If their is water then 100 ways to use if their is no water then 100000 ways useless so save water . Learn from recent deaths of cattle in cholistan & sindh

[@WaqarHabib91]

3/4th of your planet is water.

[@abdulmateen157]

@@WaqarHabib91 Then go drink ocean water as it is.

[@WaqarHabib91]

@@abdulmateen157 that's just plain stupid.

[@mm__1659]

@@WaqarHabib91 but we can't use that water for drinking and agricultural purposes....in order to do so we first need to desalinate the water and it is very expensive process, requires a lot of electricity....

[@Shrimpspiration]

Sadlay, shola bayani making no sense, per talyan... Wasn't expecting this at TBH

[@WaqarHabib91]

Aapnay kabhi paani dekha hai?

[@mohammadiqbalkhan2888]

The Financiers of this debate seem to be Anti-Dam Lobbyists in Pakistan. Mostly one-sided bias. It is essential to have regular debates on such issues but with both sides of the argument present.

[@WaqarHabib91]

You seem like a pro dam lobbyist, discussion was not biased, both sides got equal opportunity, its just that you guys lost and now you are behaving like sore losers.

[@nasirahmed5938]

Sir mere walid irrigation and Power department men , job karte rahe hen Dr H.Abbas sahib ki baton en dam kham he

[@YTaahmed45]

American/Indian money talking. You will hear more and more such absurd and nonsense discussions. So sad to see Pakistanis talking about the destruction of Pakistan, for only few pennys.

[@gosliglitzho]

American and Indian money? seriously? 😂

[@rajeshpatil6463]

Jihadi thought about Hindu & America

[@syedzafarraza3519]

Anchor is trying to thrust his unfounded beliefs. He is anti Dam believer like we believe in religion. This is scientific discussion, this anchor must not be used in future scientific discussion. Please send him to religious discussions and conspiracy theories discussions. Share waste of time.

[@mohammedrafique3520]

یہ جو بندہ ڈیم کی مخالفت کر رہا ہے اس کی شکل ہندوؤں جیسی کیوں ہے ؟