Kid traumatizer or prudent problem solver? | A take on Wriothesley and Lyney in Archon Quest Act IV

[@tarobirb4943]

P. S. I personally do think Lyney and Lynette could be 18-20 (not a strict headcanon though) but I use the term "kids" to describe them being raised in the orphanage and relative to the much older adults around them. However, I don't think age discourse is really necessary here. Another thing is I literally unlocked Wriothesley's character story 4 right after I edited this so maybe he's not entirely self-preserving but his fighting spirit still is a core part of him.

[@tranquillite1351]

I do feel bad for Lyney and his siblings. They were taught to fend for themselves and live for themselves, yet this maybe Arlecchino's way to manipulate her loyal soldiers into doing her bidding. Lyney was made to believe he didn't want to drag Father down to Meropide for her help and Arlecchino towards the traveler said "Lyney should have asked for my help, he needs to learn to not do everything ion his own" but who knows if this is all a show to make Arlecchino look good, when she could be wolf in sheep's clothing. Arlecchino is definitely interesting but resounds dangerously in my eyes.

[@gmoney9469]

A quick correction. While Wrio did say that he would leave the beret guy in silence initially, he mentioned after that that he would interview the tortured members of the society and that the ring leader would experience all of the terrors that he inflicted upon them. So I believe he is fully willing to resort to physical punishment in extreme cases like that one.

[@marcusbullock2753]

Out of the 3 siblings I like lynette the most she been through the most am as a female of trafficking it’s just crazy how she’s able to stay strong and fight for her family still. Takes a lot of mental strenght to keep living through that.

[@thesmilyguyguy9799]

Yes

[@icy6976]

Thank you for going through his possible thought process! I was so confused as to why he'd threaten Lyney like that just to release his siblings afterwards anyway, but now I understand Wriothesley's motives behind his action there. Gained a sub!

[@DavidJohnson-ib1dh]

It occurs to me that another issue here worth considering is the treatment of Lanoire. So this a kid who was born in the prison or Meropide from a pregnant woman who presumably arrived at Meropide pregnant. Now I am guessing that based on the fact that if she got pregnant in Meropide the father would be around still. But either way how is Wriothesley not aware of this situation? The mother and baby would have needed all sorts of special medical attention and food needs. And yet apparently Wriothesley doesn't make arrangements to have this kid sent back to the grandfather after her mother dies (nor does he send her to the grandfather after she's born but arguably that could have been because the mother refused to give her up). Worse there's no record of Lanoire's circumstances so when she does get old enough to make her own decisions the Meropide staff won't let her out. Wriothesley doesn't intervene. Does he just not know? It's hard to see how he doesn't know. One thing he's good at is keeping an eye on the stuff going on in Meropide, and that goes double for the infirmary. It's kinda so crazy I feel like it's unfair to bring it up almost. On the one hand it seems just too much to fit in. On the other hand they could have run the story of Caterpillar with any introduction and it feels like that's all Lanoire is. Did nobody at any point say, "Oh this hook makes Meropide sound like a terrible place because - babies born in jail? babies raised in jail? babies never allowed to leave jail? that's too dark and corrupt isn't it?" But it is surely a testament to how "hands off" Wriothesley tries to leave things in the fortress. He works hard at making sure he never has to officially step in and control a prisoner. And so it's just so weird that he'd make an issue of the Fatui kids doing some spying work. And even weirder that he breaks his own rule of not intervening in such a huge manner.

[@tranquillite1351]

I am actually on Wrio's side. Whoever was from the higher ups, kept sending multiple fatui members into his property, naturally he would become stricter and try to lower them from doing any more snooping around. You would think the fatui from higher ups who keep sending in fatui agents would stop, but then Arlecchino decides to send her top trio troupe (who are young teens in my eyes) thinking that Wrio would go easy on him. Even after watching his teaser, it would go against him to abuse/ or put kids in any danger (alot thought he physically hurt or did something awful to Lynette which I highly doubted), but because they were fatui, he decided to be harsher. I wish he helped Fremi a bit earlier, but took his sweet time calling in Clorinde for help.... Also how would Wrio know about Lyney's ptsd? After the whole confrontation scene played out, he mellowed out the dramatic response from Lyney, I feel.

[@silverhawkscape2677]

Nah. He was fast in getting Freminet out of the Situation

[@silverhawkscape2677]

His nurse has a Tranquilizer gun so no harm done

[@marcusbullock2753]

I wish we had a choice to choose Wich side we was on. The traveler didn’t even trust the Lyney afterwards they found out they was fatui. The only one they had a decent relationship with was Childe.

[@nomarvelazquez289]

BRO, YOU ARE SO CLOSE TO 1K SUBS (i just subscribed)

[@marcusbullock2753]

I was on wriothesley side the whole time. Even if he did it a bit cruelly he is basically the Duke of the jail. So he has a right to do what he wants.

[@creativemind2942]

Two words: duty and loyalty

[@marcusbullock2753]

I just want a playable antagonist character for once. I’m tired of these ridiculous redemption arcs.

[@thesmilyguyguy9799]

:)

[@DavidJohnson-ib1dh]

The crimes that Wriothesley commits in this scene are (1) blackmail as you say (not in any sense "fake" blackmail of course) by threatening to murder a family member (2) poisoning and assaulting Lynette (3) kidnapping Lynette (4) corruption of Sigewinne (5) attempt to murder Freminet (6) deliberate violation of his duty of care towards prisoners I don't think hurting Lyney's feelings is an issue, but it should also be noted that although it's not technically a crime the bizarre way Wriothesley seems to be playing games instead of co-operating over trying to find a way to avoid disaster striking Fontaine is reprehensible. First off a lot of your justification is based on the assumption that the Fatui kids committed some sort of crime or wrong doing inside the prison, but that seems false. Wriothesley never claims that they committed a crime or broke the rules. He never does that and in fact it seems that they did not violate any rule. Of course conveniently we're not told of any rules the prison has but we are repeatedly shown that the way Wriothesley runs things is incredibly "hands off" and allowing prisoners to do whatever they want to an extraordinary degree. This is shown repeatedly. Wriothesley mentions rules once in the conversation and it's to make a joke. he jokes that Lyney should have made an appointment to see him instead of just entering the administrative office without one. But of course it is a joke since Wriothesley himself manipulated Lyney to do it. And Wriothesley also manipulated the kids to do his dirty work for him from the beginning since he says he wanted them to investigate how Childe escaped and save him the bother. Is investigating stuff an infraction of the rules in Meropide? It seems not. The whole game experience is an investigation. We have to talk to various people, including information brokers who (apparently legitimately) make coupons from their own investigations or knowledge. Wriothesley wants the Fatui kids to investigate and he also wants the Traveler to. He calls it a "game". He tests the Traveler by seeing what they have managed to discover - is he seriously saying he not only expects them to break the prison rules but that they had better have done it? He does however say he took it more seriously when the kids investigated the "forbidden zone". Now contrary to what the name suggests the forbidden zone is not forbidden by any rules. It's existence is a secret which means there are no rules about it at all. Wriothesley doesn't claim there are any rules about it, he just says he got more serious. So his position is that he wanted the Fatui kids to investigate, but not to investigate the forbidden zone, not that he ever said not to, they are just supposed to be mind readers? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- So to the criminal accusations: Wriothesley threatens to kill both Lynette and Freminet several times and in a credible manner. This is a crime as well as a severe violation of his duty of care. He doesn't pretend to threaten Lyney; he threatens Lyney. Saying oh well he wouldn't do it changes nothing. Also he absolutely would kill them both. We know this because he attempts to murder Freminet. Wriothesley knows there's Primordial Sea water out there and he locks the gate on Freminet which is reasonably foreseeably leading to Freminet's death. The fact that Freminet doesn't die is luck. That's attempted murder. If we know he'd go so far -- for another joke? His reasoning seems to be to "have a card" to threaten Lyney with. Wriothesley, knowing the danger, should have stopped Freminet going out. Seemingly his motivation to manipulate Freminet into such a deadly situation was to save his own resources (meaning he didn't have to risk the life of a staff member). He could have co-operated with the Traveler or the kids and said "Well I know there's Primordial Sea water there so send Traveler who is immune, not someone from Fontaine" but instead of taking the threat to Fontaine seriously he seems to prefer his joke of attempted murder. In addition to the clear threat from Primordial Sea water he closes the gate after Freminet to ensure Freminet might die through running out of air. Again this seem inscrutably malicious. There seems to be no benefit to him beyond threatening the life of Lyney's brother as a "card". Similarly Wriothesley has Lynette assaulted, poisoned and kidnapped so as to put pressure on Lyney. He has Sigewinne do it, which considering the kid glove laws around messing with Melusines, is probably another crime. Very weird behaviour considering he's co-operating with Neuvillette who would no doubt take an extremely dim view of such conduct. Even if you don't think enticing Sigewinne to commit crimes is bad he put her in danger by ordering her to assault a trained Fatui agent. He could have simply arrested Lynette on real or trumped up charges by himself perhaps accompanied by a dozen meks. He persuades the naive Sigewinne that shooting people is a way to "protect them" to win her to his evil cause. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- In large part the whole story is just unbelievable but it's especially unbelievable if we're expected to think of Wriothesley as a nice guy. And a certain suspension of disbelief is usual to get these complex scenarios set up but even so. Why doesn't Wriothesley simply make an appointment to see Arlecchino? Why go out of his way to antagonize the Fatui and blackmail agents? Or he could have asked permission to attend the tea party with Arlecchino. Why doesn't he co-operate with Traveler's mission? or even the Fatui's since he wants something from them? Make a deal. Act as if Fontaine's future is at stake and it's not a joke. Why doesn't he share the information he does have? "I know Childe left through the pipes but there's Primordial Sea water out there so be careful"? If he has a red line on the forbidden zone why not pull in Lyney and say that? In the end he shows Traveler everything knowing that Traveler will tell the Fatui kids. Why does he go out of his way to anger the Traveler by threatening Lynette and Freminet's life in front of them? (Why doesn't he ask Neuvillette to place a magical seal over the mechanical seal BEFORE it breaks?) Some of these things can be explained by the need to write the game play into the story but the whole thing about threatening to kill "nice people" just seems like it's genuinely meant to be part of Wriothesley's personality. After all this has a negative effect on Traveler's view of Wriothesley in game text.

[@CarlosAnglada]

I'm not inclined to write such an extensive rebuttal as you have, but I'd like an explanation as to how you would pursue the "attempted murder" angle in Freminet's case when he actually sent someone to rescue him.

[@saii_8938]

Wriothesley DID NOT attempt to murder freminet, he locked the gate so that no one else would go after him, otherwise it would cause more people in danger. This is implied when clorinde and wrio are talking, clorinde said something along the line of "couldn't have saved two". Second of all, regarding the forbidden zone. What and why do you think, the reason the place is named and called forbidden zone? Oh please. This one is such a reach sorry. Third, regarding the violation of his duty towards his prisoners. Wrothesley knows, from the very beginning, that they are all not real prisoners/convicts, they are there to do a mission sent by arlecchino. He has no obligation to treat them according to the rules. Lyney said it himself, that turns out, wrothesley has done research on them before they even arrived there. Fourth, manipulation/corruption of sigewinne. Again, this is such a reach. Before that, do you know that melusines actually has a very long life? Sigewinne is in fact, older than wriothesley (this is not that relevant to the argument as she does act like a child, just wanted to bring it up). And back to the point, sigewinne is perfectly capable of standing up for herself, when the traveller asked sigewinne if she is an accomplice of wrio, she denied it, and at the scene when wrio told her she should have waited a minute or two, sigewinne talked back to him, saying that she figured she should talk or put some sense to him since he does things complicately. All of this means that sigewinne has the abilities to stand her own and does things to her own accord, on her own decision. If wriothesley did indeed corrupt/manipulate her, she wouldn't have talked back to him like that. Neuvillette trusting wrio should have been a sign for you that wrio does treat melusines properly. Overall, i think you are a little too biased while making this. I do agree that the way wriothesley does things are cunning and quite manipulative. Blackmailing lyney, implying that they would be in danger if they dont do as he says (again, he did not actually do serious harm, and was just putting an act of threatening to kill them), and the fact that he is able to make jokes and has a very laidback attitude in this kind of situation does says a lot about his character, but personally, i think this is one of the things that made wriothesley such an interesting character, with many other things. I just have to point out some things you said here. Other than that i do agree with your other points 👍.

[@DavidJohnson-ib1dh]

I don't think it counts as "rescuing" someone if the only reason they are in danger was because you put them in danger. That's like shoving someone off the sidewalk into on-coming traffic and then pulling them back at the last second is "rescuing" someone. A reasonable person would foresee that Wriothesley's action would endanger Freminet. He did it knowing Freminet could die. That's recklessness which is attempted murder of some degree. @@CarlosAnglada

[@DavidJohnson-ib1dh]

Only the 1st point is worth responding to: why didn't Wriothesley lock down the gate BEFORE Freminet went through? @@saii_8938

[@tranquillite1351]

I have a few thing to say. !)Even those who chose to be on Wriothesley side, knows that he could have handled the situation better. But you know what that deal about Freminet is? Is so that we the traveler could play as him to make us curious if we find Childe or not through that pipe area. But lo and behold it was for nothing, it was just an added section to elongate the game story. 2)Yes it's true Wriothesley messed up with handling the siblings and to us traveler and I didn't expect all that investigation be discussed with Wrio, I thought we were gonna discuss this with Lyney or Neuvi in the end of the act. 3)And also, Wriothesely was nice to Lynette, invited her over for tea and snacks and Sigewinnie only sedated her if she didn't co-operate. His goal was to never physically harm the siblings, but wanted to psychologically corner Lyney into bringing Arlecchino down to the fortress hoping to form a negotiation with her to save Fontainian people from the prophecy, but alas Lyney could not see through that and he was bought up to think for himself rather than depend on his siblings/friends/master 4)Wriothesley has indeed committed attempted crimes in his case dealing with the siblings, I agree, and karma may come to him for that.