Kill Team vs Deadzone: Which is the better game?

I compare these two futuristic skirmish games to weigh the pros and cons of each. Find out which one wins in the end!

[@MrStad-cd2tx]

Pretty minis don't mean squat if you can't afford them. By the way I really like Mantic's Forge Fathers who seemed to survive the plague and have no problem being a integral part of their universe.

[@matthewarmes619]

The issue I have with mantic is the fact there have been 3d artists and 3d printers on the market that make better minis for the last few years. They don't seem to be improving massively

[@zachbabcock6550]

@@matthewarmes619 Manticore does encourage players to print the own minis though. I also play kings of war and the rules state you can 3d print your whole army if you want.

[@costagauci5719]

Oh yeah, Mantic minis seem to be way more fairly priced.

[@Nick_Whiskey]

You should do a deadzone 3rd edition vs kill team 2021

[@mlabuguen]

I love GW models, I love Deadzone gameplay. I think I am going to proxy them into future games. Great video!

[@Ironfrenzy217]

Fantastic idea.

[@elwayth]

Dead zone ftw. I agree with you about the rules and the gameplay. Kill team can be...arduous to get through. Fortunately my gaming buddies really quite like deazone too.

[@joshfoss7407]

The battle round structure of games like 40k, Kill Team, WHFB is the worst part about those games. One player plays, and the other makes a sandwich or takes a nap. Alternating activation is infinitely better.

[@DoctorMobius]

I’ve pretty much abandoned GW for Mantic after stumbling across their Project Pandora (Space Hulk). I now play their Deadzone (Kill Team) and Star Saga (HeroQuest) by default. Price is a big bonus but it was the sheer ease of teaching the gameplay that swayed me.

[@gaminggeek241]

I totally agree--I think Deadzone is so much better than KT by a long shot. The interesting thing though is they flipped with their fantasy skirmish games. Warcry has the simpler ruleset over Vanguard so I actually prefer Warcry. But overall, Mantic does a better job with streamlined and intuitive rules.

[@agwtaw2]

Kings of war is a superior game than anything gw has done.

[@gaminggeek241]

@@agwtaw2 I've never played Kings of War--how does it compare to Vanguard?

[@agwtaw2]

@@gaminggeek241 I've not played vanguard lol. Kings of war is just such a good game but my play group is mostly 40k based. We've had some games and they all like the rules, is just the lore that they feel let's it's down.

[@Carpetslipper]

Different games but going the same way with Dreadball vs Bloodbowl. Dreadball is slick, quick and detailed enough. Bloodbowl is prettier but more clunky.

[@-Markus-]

Deadzone imo has a far superior ruleset. KT lives only through its connection to 40k, was it any other setting no one would even notice it existed.

[@ericspillman3407]

This is a perfect review that I hope gets seen by many people. You are honest and clear in the differences. I own both games and have played both and I agree Deadzone is a better game overall. I also agree it is harder to find players. However, with everything that is going on in the world and my time to watch game play videos of Deadzone I have decided when this virus is over I want to try and make an effort to bring Deadzone to my community and your video has really helped me with that decision. Thank you

[@gaminggeek241]

That's awesome, Eric! If there was a way to tweak the rules so we didn't have to use the proprietary map grid, that would make it easier, even though the grid makes measurement and movement simpler.

[@duerf5826]

My "problem" with KT and with 40k/AoS in general is GW limiting itself to a D6 system which necessitates additional intermediary rolls to compensate for that system. I know that boardgames don't have the luxury of a fancy algorithm running the numbers behind the show but I wish that they'll come up with some creative ways to make the rolling process less cumbersome.

[@wargamerorthrus3095]

I love deadzone, mantics miniatures are getting better I have veer-myn and I love them

[@MiSiOtH]

Veer-myn and other new hard plastics arę AMAZING

[@harleystachel7225]

I secound that. The orks (marauders) are really nice too

[@lancealot4943]

One thing to note with terrain in DZ is that movement is by cubes, but terrain doesn't have to line up with the cube edges. This can let you explore other terrain so long as there is a consistent enough height to have the higher level cubes be even. There is the lack of area terrain in Deadzone but that's okay for the true line of sight system. There is the limitation on having to have the grid marked out on the mat though to make it easy to track where the cubes are. Also, as this is an old video, Outbreak has been replaced by Escalation - a book that included everything relevant from Outbreak so new players only have to buy one extra book to be up to date with the latest ruling (or just one book as the core rules are free).

[@gaminggeek241]

Yes, it is true you can use other terrain and approximate as long as the mat has a grid. Thanks for the tip about Escalation--I didn't know about it.

[@kodosdh]

Now that both games got a new Edition, might be worth to make a new video

[@gaminggeek241]

Yes, I reached out to Mantic to see if they would send me a review copy. If they do, I'll update my comparison!

[@bombarded15]

We need a 2020 Kill Team vs Deadzone 3! I bought both but would still love to hear your take :)

[@ericcreager51]

Great video. I would have liked to see you use the terrain that is included in the kill team box set. Since it’s been a while, maybe update this video and add Infinity Code One to the mix (N4 if you want to get crazy). Keep it up brother

[@Jgtlbm64]

Great video, comparisons are very well made. Hope to be able to try Deadzone and some more Kill Team. Did notice how hard it was to kill in Kill Team, hopefully Deadzone fixes that. Also nice to get a cameo from my favorite Termie Brother Claudio.

[@gaminggeek241]

Yeah, that's what drove me crazy about making four sets of dice rolls making it hard to kill anything. Check out my current Space Hulk build if you want to see more Blood Angels!

[@MrZweigck]

Again, very nice video! Did you make your kill team ruler yourself?

[@gaminggeek241]

Yes, I printed it out on cardstock, folded over and taped the edges. I made it 8" long because I play the Tyranids. Here's the link if you want to print one out for yourself: drive.google.com/open?id=1PVsKC1et9_xLyL5FLHkPqQQIx-Qxz2yQ

[@andrewmarshall3891]

Only just found this. Absolutely agree with the KT combat system. Like most GW games, and a lot of board wargames, they seem to go down the road of complex procedures to give the game an air of superiority when most players would take a streamlined version given the choice.

[@gaminggeek241]

Yeah, what's weird is that Mantic made Vanguard more complex and GW made Warcry simpler so I like Warcry over Vanguard. So GW is capable of making a more streamlined ruleset but I think their 40K stuff is tied too much to full-blown 40K rules.

[@Philtopy]

I always thought GW systems were better over all, but then I played an "A-B-A-B-Round" system with grimdark future and it felt infinetly better. in 40k matches, wich are "A-B -rounds", I often got bored and/or tired quickly because there were long phases of just watching my oponent play while I were only there to check they were playing correctly. And worse is that it is very realistic for one army to completely whipe another in just the first turn alone. In "I go - you go" systems you are much more engaged and involved in every step and the situation changes dramaticly in just one round. A strategy I may have planned up in the start of the round may be completely obsolete in the middle, forcing me to think quickly and adapt constantly. I also experienced after also playing infinity and deadzone, that games with a "A-B-A-B-Round"-System do have a lot closer matches, where the outcome is often dependant on the last actions of the last round. Because both sides get solid chances of putting out demage on the opponent, both sides go down rather equally to eachother, thus the match stays relatively even for a longer period. I dont know if I ever want to play 40k again.

[@sechs6]

Great comparison! I'm really curious to see where your research for the best skirmish game will bring us. Maybe the best one is a mix of all the good rules from different games? Could it be a future mission for you to build the best skirmish game yourself? Surely not an easy task.

[@gaminggeek241]

Yeah, it would take me a long time since I'm not a designer myself. But I'm hoping!

[@anab0lic]

Best skirmish games IMO - Malifaux, Guildball, Infinity, Bushido, SAGA.

[@deadzoneaustria5632]

I am somewhere between Deadzone & Battlelore if it is about my favorite Skirmish. Even if StarQuest (Space Crusade) put me into the hobby :)

[@peterclarke7240]

Squats AND cosmic ratty lads?! You lose, gw. You lose.

[@HeadHunterSix]

They had their chance! Honestly, GW squatting the Squats is what got me into Mantic games in the first place. Got them for the Forge Fathers, stayed because well, it's not GW :)

[@peterclarke7240]

​@@HeadHunterSix Yeah... of all the decisions GW have made, their greatest sin in my eyes remains what they DID to the Squats...

[@Torkijo]

Would love an updated version of this with the latest versions of both games

[@gaminggeek241]

I'm still playing Deadzone but not Kill Team, if that tells you anything. I was hoping that KT 2 would be more like Warcry but they still made the game more complicated than they needed to. Other KT players say it's better than version 1 but I still like Deadzone better.

[@Torkijo]

@@gaminggeek241 love Deadzone but the club is definitely a GW/Warlord one

[@gaminggeek241]

@@Torkijo Yeah, we had to create our own game group because everyone here plays GW as well. Started with just two of us and we slowly grew to about eight of us playing as people came over to our table and asked what game we were playing.

[@colewrathman4472]

Every time you make a purchase from Mantic they say, "Here you go, thank you." When you get something from GW they say, "Here you go, F-you."

[@nickbrooks2236]

So with the announcement of the release of Deadzone third edition and the new kill team do you think you'll do a new video revisiting these game's?

[@gaminggeek241]

I reached out to Mantic to see if they would send me 3rd edition for an updated review but haven't heard back yet.

[@nickbrooks2236]

So now that the books are out do you think you'll be doing an updated review?

[@Arcemise]

Deadzone is such a blast! Great video! I hope you're able to find more players in your area. I know DZ is also pretty proxy friendly to get some players from other game system interested.

[@skinnykin1]

Deadzone can be popular in certain areas. We run tournaments in Michigan often and every year there is a big one at Adepticon.

[@gaminggeek241]

Yeah, I wish there was a group here in St. Louis.

[@JasemCatrall]

I've been playing Deadzone since 2nd edition.

[@edhelar1903]

For me Kill Team all the way, great fun base, great models, possibility to use terrain u have. Sure rules could be better, but its actually better than full 40k so its ok.

[@ronan2705]

KT is just a "light"40k ruleset...and we can say that this kind of rules are not really the best on the market in terms of fun or access... It's looks way to complicated just to throw dices ^^ DZ is way more simple and fun to play and to learn. KT only works because of 40k universe, that's all...and if you look at the last updates, KT is more than ever a mini-40k game more than the first KT !!!

[@devingillen3480]

Hey at about 9:40 you mention that in KT if you see someone’s gun you can target that model however it does say somewhere in the book this is not the case irrc and a friend and I just went through this a week or so ago. I can’t remember where at either in targeting or the advanced rules section I believe but it says that you have to see a part of the actual body and not just a tip of weapon or gear

[@gaminggeek241]

Yeah, I heard about this strange rule discrepancy from a Chill Team podcast. We ignore it though and play the way you are describing. I don't know how they would rule in a tournament though.

[@BeyondtheRecord]

orks in kill team are pretty darn good, expecially in tournaments with the secondary objectives and their huge number of bodies on the board. do not underestimate them ;)

[@gaminggeek241]

For a lot of bodies to hold objectives, I find the Tyranids to be better. The orks are hitting at 6's with obstruction which is terrible. But I know an Ork team did well at Las Vegas Open. I'm probably playing them wrong.

[@BeyondtheRecord]

@@gaminggeek241 try to focus on flamers and melee, also try to exploit the disengage rules which immensely favor swarm lists

[@ThroatSore]

D7's give great tactical range, but don't over complicate.

[@robsevendaysaweek]

I play KT, but would love to get into DZ. unfortunately literally no one in my area (and surrounding) plays it.

[@gaminggeek241]

I know, that's the bummer about some of these games--finding others to play with you can be difficult.

[@epeli999]

One of the nice bits about DZ is that you can teach the game essentially anyone in 15-30 min. And if they'll like it, the buy in is really low at less than 40 USD, if you already have the game. Being a skirmish game, you can also paint up multiple factions easily, and it almost turns into a boardgame in terms of ease of entry for new players.

[@AvgKsHunter]

What terrain is in the boards? Nice Video comparison as well

[@AvgKsHunter]

Sorry. Just reached end of video where you mention the terrain.

[@HeadHunterSix]

You really can't count GW for "support" when they come out with new rulesets every 2-3 years that make your old books and many of your minis obsolete - Kill Team is pretty bad about that. There's no long term support for their games because their philosophy is pump-and-dump. As you said, a year into that version you could no longer buy the starter - and they weren't going to reprint it because they were already planning the new version.

[@joex90]

i love deadzone

[@malcolmbrown5331]

Lots of good DZ discussion in this group: facebook.com/groups/DeadzoneFanatics/ . I like KT for many reasons but I prefer DZ. The cube movement system is different but is really growing on me. I also prefer the flow of DZ. KT combat resolutions are a bit cumbersome. I strongly prefer D8 systems vs. D6 systems.

[@kevinriddle3611]

Deadzone. No contest

[@peterclarke7240]

My. How very unsurprising to hear you can't buy the kt starter set any more, but have to buy everything separately at a higher combined price. Classic gw move.

[@gaminggeek241]

Yeah, I don't know why GW doesn't reprint their starter sets--you would think they would want more people to buy in on their games at the entry point. They did come out with a second starter set but it wasn't nearly the good deal of the first one.

[@paboook]

DZ is so much fun! Sorry you cannot find other players in your area.

[@francopanigaia2425]

are you on instagram?

[@gaminggeek241]

Sorry, no I'm not.

[@MoragTong_]

Infinity.

[@agwtaw2]

Kill team just went over complex.

[@inttruders]

Deadzone might be a tighter system but Kill Team has the more interesting lore, better models, lots of cool terrain plus it is so much easier to find players. I have looked into Deadzone but it always comes down to who am I going to play it with? Everyone I know that plays these types of games was a 40K player at some point so Kill Team is an easy sell since it is 40K minus vehicles and about $500.

[@gaminggeek241]

Yes, that's the same dilemma that I find myself in too. That's why I'm playing more Kill Team as well.

[@madmaxx426]

"Everyone I know plays 40K" -- You can't fix that if you don't actually branch out and encourage people to try new stuff. Settling for mediocre rules just because that is the norm isn't very efficient.

[@epeli999]

Learning DZ is super easy and the buy in is low, so if you're willing to do a little of the convincing, it shouldn't be a problem to grow a scene :)

[@HeadHunterSix]

@@madmaxx426 Exactly! It's like people who say "I'd vote for a third party candidate but they have no chance of winning", and it becomes the self-fulfilling prophecy.

[@kudosbudo]

I tried reading the KT rules amd honestly could not follow it. had to watch loads of vids and even now stll shaky. Deadzone i got it in one read. its just a better designed game.

[@costagauci5719]

I understand this video is 2 years old but I feel Necromunda would be a better comparison.

[@gaminggeek241]

As I understand, Necromunda has even more rules than Kill Team and I'm going for more streamlined. But I've never played Necromunda--what are your thoughts between the two? Especially with Kill Team 2 rules?

[@costagauci5719]

@@gaminggeek241 I played my first game of Deadzone last week and still need to paint my own minis. I personally thought Necromunda would be a better comparison by watching how to play videos as it is turned based and utilises line of sight the same way as Deadzone. Sorry my understanding of the games is still limited.

[@gaminggeek241]

@@costagauci5719 Yeah, I don't know much either but I heard that Necromunda is almost like an RPG where there is more micromanaging of abilities and characteristics--but maybe that is old Necromunda and they changed with newer editions? Regardless, I really like Deadzone!

[@godemperorphatty7185]

Mantic: the company you wish GW, was...and models that look like a meth addicted quadriplegic got some sculpting materials and thought, "I can make a space marine."