Kilo Class Submarine: What You Need To Know

[@Landrar]

We used to track these fairly easily in the 90s on the bqq5e sonar. Can't speak for today, but up until the early 2000s Russian maintenance was lacking so you could always depend on some pump or other piece of machinery putting transients into the water. They became harder to track in higher noise coefficient waters, as you would expect, but the crew could usually be relied on to close a door too hard or something to let you know they are there. At the end of the day though their need to snorkel was their achilles heel.

[@karenrobertsdottir4101]

Judging from recent news, I'd say that in the current conflict, time spent at drydock is their Achilles heel ;)

[@bombarderoazul]

The improved Kilo is much quieter

[@Landrar]

@@bombarderoazul I'm sure it is, but there's a few hitches with subs. The sound profile of the original design is only as good as the maintenance done to keep it in oem condition, and the training of the crew in maintaining a quiet environment. Key example, when the Dleta IV sub was first introduced, it made Soviet submarines a real threat. Up to that point, they were easy to track. That sub was not. It was super quiet. True to Soviet form, though, they started skimping on the maintenance. Pumps stated making noise, sound deadening started failing for various reasons, and crew was putting all kinds of transients in the water. She became much easier to track within a year of first leaving the ports. Remember, these subs still have pumps, they still have odd surfaces in the water, and they still have crews. They can absolutely be tracked, and far easier than some would want you to believe.

[@sdaiwepm]

Real-world perspective is SO interesting! Thanks for sharing your experience.

[@mytube001]

I can imagine that having no upper rudder decreases drag and leaves a less conspicuous wake when surfaced. The rolling torque from the rudder deflection could possibly be countered using asymmetric deflections of the aft hydroplanes.

[@ifell3]

Was going to say the same 👍

[@kilianortmann9979]

The rolling torque would actually be in the direction you want though? It's like leaning into a corner, I don't know if that evens out with the centripetal force and at what turn radius/speed, might even be overcompensating for it.

[@mytube001]

@@kilianortmann9979 I can only assume that it's not always desired, or asymmetric rudders would be more common. I've never been on a sub nor do I know anyone who has, so I'm just speculating.

[@nicklockard]

​@@kilianortmann9979yes, but it would push you down. Pretty bad if you're trying to surface and maneuver at the same time.

[@mmn149]

I noticed that you reconstructed the upper deck larger at half the height of the hull than other drwaings which try to force a height of a third and couldn't explain how one could even reload the torpedo tubes or are using strange prespective tricks at the bow end of the torpedo room ... Thank you for your work, now it makes sense!

[@MaxwellAerialPhotography]

This episode was well timed.

[@danielmartin7838]

Your content is always a breath of fresh air, but eight minutes is just a tease for those of us who don’t own an adequate tool to read your online materials.

[@Statueshop297]

Adequate tool to read? What eyes and a brain? Im confused what you mean

[@scoutguard3015]

​@@Statueshop297laziness

[@Krzemieniewski1]

Poland has one ship of this type, I visited it a few months before the fire that broke out during shipyard work. I also visited Kobben-type ships and what a difference in equipment in the eyes of a layman is huge. There are rumors that our navy is to get new submarines because today we have a museum, not submarine weapons.

[@Br1cht]

Differences in the displays often signals that the West´s rulers sells "Hotrod upgrades" that usually contribute little other than to the coffers of the elite. Poland should spend their Shekels on Ground Forces equipment since you´re next one up(Good luck) and leave the Navy to the bloody Yanks and BritBongs.

[@_sneer_]

@@_Alfa.Bravo_ no, from South Korea. I've never heard of a country of South Taiwan.

[@Statueshop297]

Is the polish kilo better or worse equipped than the kobben? Never seen inside either.

[@Statueshop297]

Sweden makes some great subs for the Baltic’s.

[@Krzemieniewski1]

@@Statueshop297 Kobben is generations older than Kilo. There was some newer looking equipment made by Saab but the boat is from 60's. Kilo is 80-90s. Interesting fact about Kobben it's main designer- author of electroboot concrption and main designer of german Type XXI from WW2.

[@randomuruguayan]

Excellent overview, well researched and your presentation style is one of the best.

[@gyasiansa3358]

do you know of others sir?

[@dickwellington8578]

@@gyasiansa3358sub brief has a bunch submarine/navy content. He’s excellent too.

[@mateobravo9212]

Outstanding illustrations and calm, impartial commentary as ever. Thanks and greetings from Spain.

[@youmustbethatninja]

Was that the Kilo class that got blown up tonight during a drone raid?

[@SpiDey1500]

Yes.

[@mrbloodmuffins]

Ukraine said they used Stormshadow missiles.

[@bombarderoazul]

Damaged, not blown up

[@MOTORIZEDD]

@@bombarderoazulХАХАХАХА ПОВРЕЖДЕН половины лодки нет, тупо сгорел, остался частично корпус. Это называется поврежден? Когда у танка улетает башня, ты это тоже называешь повреждением?

[@MOTORIZEDD]

@@bombarderoazulо, не сразу заметил латинуса. Теперь понятно, почему он для тебя не уничтожен а лишь поврежден) Приезжай в Севастополь к нам, с горы на бухту вид открывается, посмотришь на «повреждённого»

[@muffdiver4973]

Scratch one Kilo submarine from the Black Sea.

[@montys420-]

Scratch 1 "improved Kilo class" from the black sea fleet.

[@bombarderoazul]

Lol, submarine was damaged, but not lost 😂

[@elforeigner3260]

Is there still a Black sea Fleet in the Black sea?

[@Stefan_Dahn]

​@@bombarderoazulLOL, Josesky, what you say NOW, as it is flooded with sea water on the ground in Sevastopol?

[@EC23331]

Does he know yet?

[@4evaavfc]

I guess there's one less after recent events.

[@OTOss8]

I'm constantly amazed that you produce these illustrations in MS Paint. It's remarkable.

[@karlbrundage7472]

Even in the '80s this boat was never a "Black hole in the Ocean", because it had design and production flaws that made narrow-band noises that could be tracked, and the crews of these boats didn't get enough time at sea to learn how to be quiet during operations, which meant that they could be monitored and tracked by the number of times they slammed doors, dropped heavy gear, operated noisy equipment, dropped trash without ensuring that there were no bottles that would burst at depth, etc. Their maneuvering crew couldn't change the speed of the screw without cavitating and the entire package was like following a carnival at a hush.

[@charlesharper2357]

Coupled with poor maintenance I'm sure they've gotten worse.

[@michaeljohnson4258]

It was still an acoustic upgrade over the Type 3 diesel Foxtrot and Tango classes.

[@karlbrundage7472]

Absolutely. @@michaeljohnson4258

[@briant5685]

in 2018 one of this submarine evaded all NATO effort to detect it in the Mediterranean only to emerge near Syria launching rockets at ISIS

[@wildweasel3001]

3 weeks later... minus one sub 💥😂

[@thegenericguy8309]

Something I don't see mentioned much about the Kilo is how western the bridge looks. Outside of the bow planes the thin, tall, and long bridge looks like it was pulled right off a Sturgeon, which is very unusual compared to the more streamlined bridges common to Soviet SSNs. I'm curious why/how this came about. My only guess would be that because it would have to get close to the surface quite often compared to an SSN for snorkeling, it made sense to have a taller bridge design in order to allow the hull of the submarine to remain deeper and thus better concealed. As other comments have mentioned, this would also tie in to the lack of upper rudder trying to minimize surface disruption. It all speaks to a great amount of effort places on minimizing the snorkeling diesel submarine's characteristic vulnerability to ASW patrol aircraft, which makes sense for a sub designed prior to wide use of AIP systems. Like you said, a very good product of its time, but still very much a product of its time.

[@michaeljohnson4258]

Yes the Kilo was the first Soviet Russian diesel to look like a western one. It has the teardrop hull and modern sail.

[@bigsarge2085]

I really appreciate these break-down documentaries.

[@zolimajster8313]

You have such a huge talent of a storyteller. Please keep doing it without a script.

[@that.schamp]

Timely and relevant. Did you have premonitions? =D

[@chemputer]

I wish you'd make more videos, I absolutely love it when I get a notification that you've made one! I know it's probably hard to think of topics that your expertise as a defense analyst and world leading expert in MSPAINT is the right fit for, despite there definitely being loads of potential topics, so maybe consider a suggestion box? (Hell, I don't normally watch this kind of stuff but even a timelapse video of you making one of your illustrations would be amazing to watch. It's one thing seeing someone make something in GIMP or Photoshop or Blender, it's another level for something so detailed in MSPAINT!)

[@Statueshop297]

MS paint! Wow just wow

[@Nick-gg5eq]

If you made a book with all your vehicle illustrations, I would totally buy it. Your 3D drawings are awesome.

[@olehtrukhan2918]

Aand it's gone 🎉

[@you-dont-know-me]

Well one of them (Rostov-na-donu) was destroyed yesterday in dry dock. That's the same sub whos captain was assassinated earlier this summer when on leave at home.

[@anderspuck]

Thanks. Nice overview.

[@rodasrodas]

Thank you Mr Sutton

[@a_ricart]

I have always wondered if the lack of upper rudder would allow it to surface under arctic ice.

[@henrikskagen1840]

4 submarines in the black sea*

[@stepbruv8780]

4-1 = 3 now

[@maxtsiavos1874]

Hi, love your videos have been watching for a while now... Was wondering if you had plans to create a similar video covering the Collins Class SSK (I am aware of Aaron ((sub brief)) having already posted such a video but I find both of your videos very educational in their own regards). Cheers and keep up the great work!

[@zachtaylor9834]

The lack of an upper rudder had to do with its original design as a cable trencher (anchored on the bottom) and carrying a mini sub behind the sail (also keep in mind it had a pump jet on paper )

[@WarrenAAndrews]

-1 available in the Black Sea 🇺🇦

[@mrkeogh]

Wonder if the "half rudder" is intended to reduce wake signature at snorkel depth? 🤔

[@Seasonstobecheerful]

Love your work , always fascinating 👏 thank you. 🌻

[@USAACbrat]

How long has it been since their last yard period? Old ships need Maintenace more frequently.

[@tombouie]

Thks &; Again facts/reality is much more-interesting/less-boring than highly watered-downed versions of it from all news networks/articles.

[@Vulcano7965]

You have a very soothing voice. Very pleasent to listen to.

[@christosswc]

Interesting as always. Thanks for maintaining impartiality.

[@MrTonypace]

As an amateur, I like these more basic videos. I need to build up basic knowledge for comparisons.

[@karlfair]

Thanks for the report.

[@jamesmandahl444]

The improved kilos of Russia and Vietnam have special internal ducts for a slow but very quiet traverse. This is often not discussed. You can find images or two louvered openings at the bottom near the back. And AIP is complex and not all AIP systems are made equal in fact some of the Stirling variants frankly dont give a whole lot of extra slow speed submerged movement. Also Russia heavily focuses on nuclear subs so the capabilities of the improved kilo in littoral areas is decent enough. Looks like the future of Russian AIP for electric-diesel designs will be the use of nuclear power packs similar but different to what some satellites use.

[@markredacted8547]

Another fantastic video

[@NickyKDChaleunphone]

The Kilos are great for costal, EEZ patrol. It's also a great options for Navies who want an SSK sub that can make life a living hell for the enemy

[@thebuonocore9818]

It does not have a upper rudder primarily due to the fact that is wasn't designed with one.

[@stevegentilly726]

Very good video as usual, Thank you.

[@khimbittle7705]

Another great video

[@brianomalley7501]

Another very informative and interesting video I appreciate what you do I always look forward to the information that you share with us easy to understand and enjoyable the way you present I can't say it enough thank you

[@timmotel5804]

Excellent and very informative. Good to hear from you and Best Regards. Thank You

[@jakubstrumillo]

I seen many times Polish ORP Orzeł (Eagle eng.) - Project 877 Paltus class, and even once i meet him during sailing, he passing by on the surface in the Gulf of Gdansk.

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

@HISuttonCovertShores >>> Great video...👍

[@glike2]

Aeronautical engineer here thinks that the lower rudder is to facilitate banked turns like aircraft, but the elevators probably also required differential motion to act as ailerons.

[@nicklockard]

Pretty much. Submarines handle much like airplanes. They fly rather than drive. The lower rudder design would act to roll you into the turn. Fine as long as all controls are operational, but a nightmare if trying to surface with damaged/compromised hydraulics or trying to maneuver and surface at the same time. This thing would get killed in a dog fight with a 688.

[@AngusAbbott-qf8xm]

Ukraine has just targeted one of these (in dry dock) in Sevastopol 🇺🇦

[@shingnosis]

But can it do a Crazy Ivan?

[@ivangeorgiev4774]

Mr Sutton, could you please review the navies in the Black Sea. As mostly NATO members are the bordering Russia right now it would be interesting talking about the capabilities of each country’s navy.

[@joseeduardobolisfortes]

Hi! Thanks for all the historical informations. Could you talk about the firsts subs of nineteenth century? I would like to know how they worked.

[@James-9999]

W Algorithm

[@nupagadii5834]

It is interesting new concept of this pump-jet (4:35 time), but I would've design slightly different. It would be very efficient and pro diesel-electric subs. The sound from the screw vortex would be eliminated

[@stuartpalmer3404]

It could be my gear but there is an audio glitch at 1:58.

[@x67th]

Audio glitch

[@HISuttonCovertShores]

Yeah sorry, price of "unscripted and unedited"

[@threechevy4203]

My best guess as to why the Kilo has no upper rudder is that they felt it would be inefficient since it is working in the shadow of that large teardrop pressure hull and sail.

[@christianjunghanel6724]

Please a vid. about the new Nort Korean sub !

[@shaider1982]

Nice, now in video format. 👍

[@m.streicher8286]

I don't *need* to know anything about these subs... but I *want* to know everything about these subs.

[@Kenny-yl9pc]

Great video as always!

[@cori11ian]

Thank you!

[@jameswillis3848]

Awsome, didnt realise you had a youtube channel, been getting educated by sub brief before now ;)

[@timwilliamanderson]

So how about that rumor about the shang class going around?

[@WarBird-yt1sp]

New H I Sutton video, RAAHHHHHHHHH

[@michaelmontgomery5141]

My understanding was the Whiskey and Romeo, similar to Washington, were Type 21 subs. Interestingly, there is a Whiskey class tied up next to the Queen Mary in Long Beach California. Very surprised as you may imagine

[@BigTArmada]

Hell yea! More please

[@tommihommi1]

I would expect that these submarines still are pretty much not detectable by passive sonar while they're in silent running mode, they just can't do it as long as a modern submarine. There's the stories of old 206 class subs penetrating US carrier protection screens, after all.

[@mandowarrior123]

Depending more on ambient noise levels and at certain ranges, sure. A lot of it is seamanship, even a relatively archaic submarine with its limitations in mind can be perfectly lethal.

[@hammyh1165]

Friend of mine was a sonarman and said they were extremely good back in the eighties but tech has caught up and yes they're good if it's noisy like a carrier group or in coastal waters.

[@oddball_the_blue]

Greatly amused how even the submarines can be seen for miles away via the plume of smoke trailing behind them if the first picture was anything to go by.

[@andyf4292]

on the surface, yes

[@reyperpetua7858]

Please do a video about the North Korean SLBM sub that was in the news lately. Thanks!!!

[@HISuttonCovertShores]

Interim content old fashioned style www.hisutton.com/North-Korea-Submarine-Hero-Kim-Gun-ok.html

[@Fish-ub3wn]

no upper rudder means much lower radar signature when surfaced

[@zenith_linear]

Absurd claims especially when the sub has huge tower.

[@user-ep3ug9ry3p]

Romeo and kilo were both important for PLAN.

[@dukenukem8381]

USA answered with a Pound submarine

[@TheVicariousone1]

Great work man ty for the info!

[@ohlordy2042]

Does any learned individual here know the diameter of the inner, pressure hull of the Kilo class? I'm interested in comparing the inner, usable space of a Kilo vs modern Western conventional submarines of single hull design.

[@The_Amazing_Funktopuss]

The only thing I need to know is what it sounds like. The rest is just logistics and delivery. If you know you know.

[@jwenting]

The Kilos are very quiet, especially compared to nuclear submarines in the same environment, shallow waters closer to shores. Which is exactly why SSKs are so dangerous in littoral areas, and why Russia and China maintain fleets of them.

[@artistjoh]

Why are pump jets generally not suitable for diesel/electric boats? If not suitable, why was the Shortfin Barracuda French design being planned for the Australian navy (before they decided to go for nuclear propulsion) going to have a pump-jet?

[@Trinh0351]

Dear Sir! I need information about Chinese submarine. Could you help me? Thanks

[@pieterveenders9793]

Which one? Have you checked H.I. Sutton's website, or the other video's on his KZbin channel? Because he has discussed Chinese subs in the past.

[@wadesdad2640]

woo

[@GeorgeNzioki-ls6nn]

Needs to carry zircon hypersonic cruise missies and 30 khaibr cruises

[@beluga9596]

Hey love your content , any updates on the China submarine accident ?

[@DarinRWagner]

Have you done a German Type 209 or newer yet? I've done war game exercises against those in the Navy... they were pretty good for coastal defense.

[@Krzemieniewski1]

please tell me more about naval war games, what does it look like, is the game based on a manual available on the civilian market? For some time this subject fascinates me and I would like to play a "real" war game but I don't even know the name of what to look for.

[@DarinRWagner]

@@Krzemieniewski1 War game exercises are variable in terms of assets and objectives. It's not a "game" per se.

[@comentedonakeyboard]

I guess the upper rudder was left out to surface through (thin enough) ice 🤔

[@--Dani]

More content 👍👍👍

[@toivopirttimaki9156]

a submarine is a boat so it can go rivers russian can use volga river form the black sea to east to the sea

[@michaelimbesi2314]

This video came out about 3 weeks too early. Happily, the Ukrainians have made the service history and quantity of ships out of date only 3 weeks after the video came out.

[@methylmike]

How effective is the bosphorus blockade to subs?

[@skip1383]

Depends. Do the Russians want to risk potentially getting discovered while diving an armed military submarine through NATO territorial waters? And I’m sure the strait is being patrolled by vessels capable of discovering the noisy Russian subs.

[@methylmike]

makes sense, i have no idea how quiet subs are and how good hydrophones are, so ty@@skip1383

[@briant5685]

these kilo electic subs are even silent than US nuclear powered subs@@skip1383

[@deven6518]

The kilo is still very quiet by modern day standards. Disappearing from actuve monitoring at close range is a feat that not many can accomplish

[@AndrewLambert-wi8et]

KALIBR COULD BE USED AS DECOYS.

[@pacol1n]

Wasn't KILO class the first "quiet" russian sub using Toshiba's propeller which led to a big scandal :)

[@GeorgeNzioki-ls6nn]

Well the issue is how edged is possibly Russia naval possible assets against possible western platforms and what are their current plus as to limitations compared to Us western naval platforms?

[@michielvanhemert9943]

always pretty hard to not like....

[@werbinich7908]

Is there any reason why WW2 submarines have this „sharper“ shape compared to the more modern teardrop shape?

[@noname-wo9yy]

It's so they can run on the surface faster

[@Trashcansam123]

Also allows for a sonar dome at the front

[@_Alfa.Bravo_]

Is the chinese Yuan class Type 039A submarine a copy of it? The upper deck loocks so similar

[@HISuttonCovertShores]

Influenced by it and borrowing some tech, but not really a copy

[@garyreid6165]

I once read a book called Kilo Class. It was written by Patrick Robinson. The story told of Russia being cash strapped and deciding to build and sell to other countries like China. Pretty intense read.

[@janwitts2688]

Important to cover these before they become extinct

[@johnsobery8386]

I assume that Russia would keep kilos for a very long time. It’s like they were meant for the Black Sea.

[@iommi1337]

Didn't knew cruise missiles can be launched from torpedo tubes. Are submarine angle itself like 25-30 degrees for launch?

[@HISuttonCovertShores]

The missile comes out horizontally inside a capsule which then rises to the surface at an angle

[@TheAslakVind]

The only thing she neeeds to know, is that the Swedish Gotland class is watching her, and she has the Stirling engine. And the badge for sinking an US carrier.

[@pieterveenders9793]

Every Western navy and their mother has sunk a US carrier during excercises; the Australians, the Brits, the Germans, the Dutch, the French, and the Canadians. Hell, the Dutch Royal Navy not only sank an US carrier but half it's carrier battle group along with it, comprised of a command ship, 5 or 6 destroyers and frigates, and even its accompanying Los Angeles-class nuclear attack submarine, and then slipped away undetected.