Is Early Access Bad? - Kinda Funny Gamescast

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From Hades 2 and The Rogue Prince of Persia to No Rest For The Wicked, and Palworld, Tim, Blessing, and Andy try to break down the pros and cons of games releasing in early access.
Time Stamps -
00:00:00 - Start & Nick’s Pokemon Kinda Nuzlocke
00:08:30 - Housekeeping
00:09:04 - The Year of Early Access
00:57:34 - No Rest for the Wicked Hype
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[@0Gumpy0]

"I was telling Nick, there is like a million pokemon games" At one point during the first stream, Nick literally said "I'm scared to tell Tim I'm enjoying this, because he's going to tell me that there are dozens more games I should also play" beautiful

[@EveryTimeIDavid]

I hope they try some more. These streams have been great so far.

[@Myke-Myke-Myke]

I’ve worked in games for over 10 years now. Worked on small teams and large teams, triple a titles and indie titles. My belief is that as long as the developers are being open about what early access means for their game, and use that as a way for people who want to get in early to try and help shape what the finished release will be…then I have no problem with early access. Many games have started in early access and because of that process have had their 1.0 or finished game be better than it maybe would have been without the early access feedback and data from players over the early access period. Where I draw the line is developers abusing early access just to make money. The entire idea of early access is a way for developers to work more closely with their top tier fans to build the game together via feedback and analysis data and stuff like that. Also, while not exactly the same as early access…I want to call out developers and especially big game companies for tacking on “3 day early access” to their big game in some stupid overpriced “special edition”. A games release date should be the same across the board for the platforms it’s releasing on. I think it’s wrong to market your big expensive “special edition” as having early access, when in reality it’s just charging your most loyal fans more money to be a beta tester before games actual release date. I think that’s wrong, period, and that gaming sites, reviews, buyers of games, and the industry at large need to put their foot down and put an end to this nonsense scheme of fooling customers into paying more money for a lesser day-1 experience.

[@AKDot98]

Re: special edition early access, do you really think 3/5 days early access is "beta testing" for a full release? Do you think devs are going to take feedback, fix bugs and release the patch for them in less than a week on a AAA title? Because I promise you that is not happening and am 99% confident it never will. Day 1 patches are definitely a thing and launch server issues are definitely a thing, early access for a game releasing days later is a completely unrelated monetization strategy. If anything the criticism should simply be that taking advantage of FOMO/content creation economy this way is a bit scummy and especially so if the game doesn't work well during that period. "Using players as beta testers" is a boogeyman used by people who don't understand how development works. Devs will tell you when they're using you for testing, they do it all the time. In fact, genuine months long early access periods are closer to using the players as testers than what Starfied and Star Wars Outlaws are doing.

[@deshaunfortune912]

Communication from devs about what early access means for a specific game is definitely a big part of it. A lot of AAA devs hate admitting that their games are in early access.

[@SirDiesel]

I don't think anyone talking about Prince of Persia remembers the Lost crown is going to get a free DLC rogue like mode LMAO

[@PretendingToListen]

Andy was really knowledgeable and described the situation very intelligently. it was easy to understand and make up my own mind on. the kid is firing on all cylinders and I swear he probably borrowed a couple from bless and Tim too. he's not called the Latino sweet treat heat for nothing.

[@The1TheBob]

I love these long-form discussions about big topics in gaming vs individual game reviews. Gaming is such a broad topic with issues and high points that go so far

[@julio1148]

People need to watch some GDC talks. Early access is massively helpful for devs

[@jrakeswildlife6022]

Rip kuz!!!!!!!

[@maddoggnick96]

This KFG Vol. 2, Episode 231 (Episode 483 overall)

[@ytm23ak]

Ty

[@evazquez18]

early access is good. even if I don't participate I hope it's here to stay. truly connecting and building a community as you grow your game can't be anything but a W! if non early access games didn't launch partially broken on a weekly basis early access wouldn't need to exist

[@XeromusPrime]

The great thing about early access is that it's entirely optional. Those who enjoy early access and really like contributing to the devs or simply want to support the game can do that, those that want a complete game can simply wait. Either way, I think it's super useful and helpful to the devs and that just means a better game at the end of the day.

[@TheCaliforniaHP]

Andy also skilled enough to his own thing with deve work behind the scenes. Love it

[@epicmike115]

Early access is just expanding QA with people excited for the product, Hades 2 studio has 23 people (at least thats what it says when you google) so I have no issues personally, if the dev team is AAA and not going as hard as Larien with BG3 or even half that honestly then I could see the issue Tim is feeling. But Super Giant is super dope and I appreciate not having to wait till the game is completely finished to join and be part of that growth

[@gamemasterbob9]

It's so game dependent. For BG3 there are so many variables, that they couldn't possibly internally play test to the extent that the general public could. But EA was only the first act. And if there was one consistent negative I heard from reviews was that the last act wasn't as polished as the rest

[@jaredrmyer]

That’s just naturally going to happen. The first act isn’t working with nearly as many story branches as the last act is.

[@BasketCase-rr7tx]

There seems to be some confusion here. You don’t actually pay for early Access games. You’re actually just buying the game while it’s still in development. You have access to early builds of the game, and then it gets updated when the full release is out.

[@baneintherain]

False. You do pay for early access games. Not like you can get your money back.

[@BasketCase-rr7tx]

@@baneintherain you don’t. You’re buying the game. You get the full game when it’s out. If you were paying for early access you wouldn’t get the full game.

[@PotatoRankEX]

@@baneintherain Youre basically pre ordering the game.

[@philbarton2832]

Aren't there some examples of paying a smaller amount for an early access game then paying a separate full amount once the game fully releases? In those cases I think it's pretty scummy

[@baneintherain]

@philbarton2832 most early access you pay for the access and then you get the full release without paying anything else. And most times you pay less than what it costs at full release. You take a risk if it's terrible though as you don't get your money back. But in many cases, Hades, BG3, Sons of the Forest, it's worth it and a good deal.

[@c.codyflick2210]

Interested to know more about that card game, Blessing

[@nickrubin7312]

It is a bit less of a testing, and more of community/feedback thing. Reactions system, certain abilities/skills/effects (including surface effects), adding certain classes and races, level cap being 12 instead of 10, the scope of the game itself actually, and so on were made by devs or not made by devs having certain design decision in mind, and based on the community feedback during EA, which was always constructive and on point. Basically you're saying "I wan't this, I don't want this", and you get it, simple as that. Also all 9 Panels from Hell over the course of EA were fire. Sometimes EA contradicts full release crowd tho, especially if the game attracted a lot of people who weren't initially interested or not typically interested. So, they literally have to deal with "well, the majority of EA crowd really wanted this to be this way, so now you have to deal with it"

[@JstBringIt]

Early Access is only bad if the game devs aren’t transparent and have realistically scoped their game so they can share a realistic time frame of when it is done. I played Grounded the day it came out in early access all the way till full release in 2022. It was a great experience and the community dev team were fantastic the whole way through. It felt like I was part of the community helping the game be the best it could be and they even took ideas from the community to make the game even better.

[@mattc1143]

No rest for the wicked looks so good but I don’t have a pc (cuz im not a dork) but i can’t wait to try it out. Hopefully it comes to early access on Xbox soon. I also might just wait till full release tho.

[@blackcephie1800]

Do the early access every time IMO. Ur gonna get ENOUGH people to get the data needed to improve the experience, and everyone else who wanted to go into the game raw at 1.0 get the benefit of that. It's a win-win. Tim hates the idea of early access, but then we get games that get released unfinished and broken and it gets dragged online by the media and everyone else. Which one would you rather have? But then there's that feeling of, especially when charging for early access, that it's a way to make money off of an unfinished product under the "guise" of early access. But again, there's only a certain percentage of hardcore fans that are going to buy into that, so it kinda balances itself out. It helps both parties. It helps the devs by getting extra funding and data in order to make a better product for the audience. I look at it simply an option that, if opted into, helps everyone involved. Charge less for early access, and take that amount off of the end product for those who participated. Boom.

[@BasketCase-rr7tx]

If you buy an early access game you don’t have to buy the full game when it releases, the game you own just gets updated to version 1.0.

[@TheSuvW]

What do you mean? Majority of games today are released in early access. They just don’t say so

[@blackcephie1800]

@@TheSuvW I'm aware. I'm calling out games like Anthem, Cyberpunk...big titles with huge demands that could have even had a closed test or something. What's funny to me is that early access will help shape a project into a better game, but internal QA, no one seems to listen to.

[@adamambro]

I clicked the like button for you Andy

[@codysmith3767]

Little companies doing it=using their limited resources and being resourceful in general. Big companies like ubisoft or rockstar=predatory, etc like multiversus taking money in an early access game for dlc stuff

[@frodobaggins6411]

Another great episode guys, keep up the great work :)

[@RoaringTide]

Like Tim, I avoid Early Access (and oftentimes betas or other tests) until the game is done. Not because I have anything against EA in principle (I think it's ultimately good for developing a better product), but because I'd rather experience the game in its most refined form. I'm especially averse to playing things early if progress gets wiped or the game is likely to go through big changes anyway. For example, I'm excited for PoE2, whose beta will basically function like EA and continue right up until release, but progress will very likely be wiped.

[@BasketCase-rr7tx]

Progress isn’t usually wiped in EA games.

[@RoaringTide]

@@BasketCase-rr7tx I know, that's why I mentioned betas or other types of early opportunities to play. The main thing though is just wanting to play a finished version.

[@MikeJones-wq7pg]

Haze! Remember that game.

[@luciddre4m]

Artistry, musical talent, humor, gaming knowledge... Where did they find this Andy character? 😊

[@EveryTimeIDavid]

Here's why I'm ok with early access - I've never had a bad time with a game that had early access time. Dead Cells, Baldur's Gate 3, Hades all sung when they actually released, and it's because of the time they got people in the systems. I also really like supporting developers that do good work. All of those devs have proved they take feedback and support seriously.

[@BasketCase-rr7tx]

I'm convinced that Tim doesnt actually know what Souls games are. No Rest For The Wicked clearly plays like Dark Souls from a different perspective, yet for some reason he compares it to the original God of War? It reminds me of when he was talking about the first Star Wars Jedi game and literally described all the souls like elements before saying he couldnt think of another game that was quite like it.

[@EddieDean1]

No matter what In life we've all got blindspots

[@exodore2000]

I love early access. I was burned by Goddus but some games I liked more in early access. Darkest Dungeon, the Long Dark, space engineers, Kerbel space, Subnautica I enjoyed more.

[@Covette01]

Can be a not so great thing. I miss the days of complete games, but the term early access is a communication tool and as long as the company communicates well enough about the product, then it’s good for the consumer

[@user-tq8um6vb6t]

oppenheimer is your favorite movie? have you seen anything else?

[@deshaunfortune912]

To me, there’s absolutely no negatives to early access because you can simply choose not to play in early access and let the people who are hard-core about it and really excited for a game go in, leave feedback, and help the devs. It’s a win-win situation. The worst examples of early access are from AAA devs who don’t admit that their game is in early access and trick people into thinking its finished on release and then you have to wait like a year or two before it is actually in a good state.

[@philbarton2832]

I have a really simple viewpoint on early access, it's a scam to squeeze even more money out of the people who are going to buy it anyway once it fully releases. If devs want mass feedback then put out a beta, we should not be paying for helping to develop a game full stop. A game that's already been funded doesn't need extra funding, release the game finished and if it's good and is successful with it's audience then use the profits to add post content.

[@dustyw8771]

I had grilled chicken with mashed potatoes and Mac and cheese

[@entrailitybtw5085]

shoutout Gloomwood the best Early Access game on steam

[@jamster126]

Absolutely not. Look at BG3. Incredible example of early access. It allows devs to tune and refine their game based on feedback and move to developing a game in a more iterative approach. I think No Rest For The Wicked will be another great example of a game released in early access. Not to mention it also takes the pressure off the devs and should realistically reduce crunch time.

[@tavinbothel5158]

There's a lot more examples of it failing tho

[@jamster126]

@@tavinbothel5158 There will always be those that take advantage of use it poorly. WB is a recent example, charging for micro transactions in multiversus when it was in early access. That is just wrong. But early access when done correctly and when it is used to shape a game from feedback etc is amazing for the devs and the overall game.

[@PotatoRankEX]

@@tavinbothel5158 *Theres a lot more examples of devs not making proper use of it

[@maximnewman2483]

I think a lot people misunderstand what early access is.

[@BenjaminBot]

Love you all, love the content. Totally don't get Tim's take. I think he just doesn't understand early access. I think after supporting a few early access titles; playing early then again on final release; it's the best process for releasing a game. I trust the gamers and general censes of early access players to make a game better. I myself have never given any feedback during early access.

[@AjTengu]

I think what games use early access should be changed. It’s common knowledge in the Battlefield space that the game doesn’t work for the first 6 months or in COD when there’s hours long queues to even get in the menu. Single player games of any type I feel like maybe not. I understand there’s a funding aspect for indie games but it’s too risky.

[@dingus2k]

Early access isn’t inherently good or bad. There’s lots of positives to having a core community interact and provide feedback to early builds that are polished enough that it’s a worthwhile investment to buy in on the players side. Hades and BG3 are excellent examples. But other games sit in early access forever and just take people’s money with no future in sight. it’s really up to us players to evaluate the games case by case and through word of mouth, promote the good ones and warn of the bad.

[@Abefroman3]

26:00 really mixed on this episode. Slow news day? It worked for them the first time so naturally they would want to repeat the process to try and be as if not more successful for their next game. I think more studios should look at early access. Also. If this makes the game better why question it. No one is making you “buy the early access” this is less gross than $110 early access version of a game at launch.

[@brendanroe8604]

Will nick get through the SS Anne in 3 hours today? Not likely

[@AmacioMartin]

My short answer before I watch this is no, lets see if that changes after I watch...

[@MG_Gambino]

I dont have a problem with early access, but i am getting lost in whats what now. Early access vs betas vs demos? Arent they all doing the same thing? If not, then whats the point of doing 1 over the other? As a fighting game guy, just give me the finished product. I'll support however i can but i wont play until its finished.

[@J_Tevo]

Early access leads to better games for smaller development teams. If you don't want to play an unfinished game... wait until it's fully released and don't get involved.

[@deshaunfortune912]

That’s what I’m saying

[@yea12326]

my only push back would be the early access game that don't come out

[@LastChanceWasTaken]

I think early access can be a boon for most games. But also a crutch for others. The name early access or Beta has been destroyed by Fortnite and others. Who release battle passes and cosmetics on a consistent basis before the game is fully launched. I think the terminology gets in the way a lot for this. But overall. Mostly good to have smaller or games still being developed, get feedback and sometimes direct help from community to make it better overall.

[@Hero5700]

Early Access legit is for the most part a net positive for consumers and devs. People that want the full release only have to wait for the full the release.

[@deshaunfortune912]

Exactly. The solution to not liking playing a game in early access is to simply not and wait for the full game.

[@LuisCastillo-tg6xw]

Early Access is great for smaller teams but overall is good for the industry.

[@ParagonKevin]

Blessing is such a bootlicker in this episode. Early access for a Rockstar game? It's fucking Rockstar lol. They have all the resources in the world. They can afford to pay a massive QA team to test their games. Gamers shouldn't be paying them to test their shit lol.

[@xArachnidz]

HOW U BIG STEPPING WITH A 7 MENS ON

[@pratik8237]

feels like developers are out of touch with what the consumer base wants so early access gives that insight I feel which is fantastic but can of course be abused.

[@NeroZeroScorpion]

I still prefer early access over a kickstarter, i still think there was no need for Mina the Hollower to have a kickstarter, they excuse of building a community is bullshit in this day and age.

[@fuelbot]

Depends on the reason for it. Early access to actively and seriously improve the game with the fanbase - great. Early access to fleece more money from the fanbase by not really doing anything but allowing you to play a few days early? Garbage.

[@codysmith3767]

I clicked the like button this time. Sorry guys

[@nutthistory]

It is weird that Tim and Bless don't seem to understand how early access works as it has been a thing for years. Nothing he read in the Prince of Persia early access page is nothing new. It is never the complete game and yes you pay for them.

[@OriginalBoondocksXVIII]

They're not PC gamers historically. They (moreso Bless) have reviewed games on PC, but getting a Steam Deck has pushed both of them to engage with Steam relatively recently so this is just a blind shot for them.

[@TheKindredblades]

I'm with Tim. If I buy an early access game, I'll play just a little bit, then wait for the full release. I want to play the full thing.

[@alexplummer6397]

When I play gt7 online I can’t pause just like Elden ring…… souls like confirmed

[@jamiesimons]

I hear Wolverine is in early access

[@deshaunfortune912]

I don’t understand why Tim hates something he doesn’t have to participate in so much😂 feels like he’s just upset that he knows how the sausages made.

[@intersexcryptid]

I'm really REALLY glad that Andy mentioned having adhd. I'm glad he knows. It's hard being neurodivergent and seeing other people being neurodivergent and not knowing if they know or not.

[@hododod246]

Some devs don't have no clue to how to make good video game like Larian. So they need to ask gamers and get confirmation. Great devs don't need early access. They don't need to ask what gamer wants. They just make whatever they want and people like it. Like Fromsoftware. In fact I don't want game devs to make the game I want. I want them to surprise my and make games I even don't know I need. Personally I will never play game in early access. I'll play it when they say it is ready. But I don't have any problem with it. If they manage to finish it, they usually end up great.

[@MikeJones-wq7pg]

Wasnt Overwatch in early access

[@MelodicQuest]

It was

[@wyrmslayer1991]

I love Tim but I really just could not see where he was coming from. There’s nothing wrong with waiting till the finished product is out. He lost nothing by not playing Hades during early access. Why does he feel like he NEEDS to play Rogue PoP in early access?

[@thebros8157]

I always thought Early Access was bad when the "early access" is going on for years and then continue to get updates...while in early access...Is this like a cover for developers incase the game is poo they can just blame it on early access?

[@samikhalifa6021]

Early Access is great for gaming

[@AREAlhero]

Yet more proof you don't know what you're talking about Sami smh. Early Access is good in very specific use cases and not for others. You don't know what gaming is really about, do ya kid?

[@samikhalifa6021]

@@AREAlhero more proof you’re too stuck in the stone age*

[@AREAlhero]

@@samikhalifa6021 You would love that, it was the last time your kind had any relevance

[@samikhalifa6021]

@@AREAlhero my kind? Please elaborate.

[@AREAlhero]

@@samikhalifa6021 Bro needs elaboration on himself, how pathetic you got to be lil bro

[@StanleySThomas]

Nowadays the official launch date is really just paid beta testing with how buggy and unfinished modern games are on release. You gotta wait at least 6 months or more before a game is even remotely close to what it was marketed as. The nice thing is if you don’t purchase it on release and just wait it out, either the game is on sale or you realize the game is not worth it after everyone else has played and reviewed it. Also, NEVER pre-order a game, more often than not it isn’t worth it.

[@siddharthshishulkar8992]

Early Access is usually a negative for me. I ain't playtesting even if they pay me let alone asking for money. And when games are released in early access, they usually make a pretty bad impression. Even with BG3, launch was pretty bad with so many bugs comparable to a Bethesda game. What's the point of early access then?

[@Juggernaut-IV]

Another episode where Tim pokes his head up from his switch to see issues gamers have been dealing with for a while.

[@TheMissingLink000]

Except Andy was the one to suggest the topic, you gonna level the same criticism at him?

[@gumgumleobazooka]

Imagine being this passive aggressive with free content about video games.

[@turanx0]

I agree that this topic is very boring and not really relevant anymore since it’s so prevalent, but I don’t understand why you classify this as an issue for gamers? It’s a choice. You either buy in early or don’t. I’ve never done it, so I just play something else. Don’t make an issue out of nothing.

[@enseventealp]

It seems all you do is complain? Do you just hate watch? Do you not have anything better to do with your life?

[@damonstorms7884]

The only real issue gamers face nowadays is having too many good games to choose from. A lot of people don't even have time to play all the games they would like to. People tend to focus on the negative and forget how good gaming is right now.

[@themoviefan9990]

Paying for early access is the dumbest shit ever

[@tyler328]

Nope it's not bad.. move on already

[@seakae]

Early access is a young person’s game. That’s for people with few responsibilities and all the time in the world to waste on broken messes.

[@KobytheHero]

I just really don’t understand why someone would want to play a game when it’s still being made.

[@Tairashimuzu]

If you give good feedback and the devs are actually listening then you get to help turn the game into something way more polished than if it was just in the studio bubble. For instance, in Hades 2 Early Access, you can choose a tool to gather resources on your runs, but you could only gather the resources of the tool you had equipped, everything thing else you would leave behind. People gave feedback on that being pretty bad, so now picking a tool means that kind of resource will spawn more often, but you can still collect any resource you find. Now people who are waiting for 1.0 wont have to go through that dislike to patch time and people playing in early access are still getting to play something that is continually improving.