Offset Red Dots

[@SouthpawActual]

I love Jon's content, I don't understand why this channel doesn't have a bigger following.

[@KineticConsulting]

Because I don't pay for marketing lol

[@SouthpawActual]

@@KineticConsulting I can understand that but you bring a lot common sense and well explain content to shooters in every realm and level of proficiency while you got dudes larping in YT that have tons of subs. Is just my opinion though.

[@KineticConsulting]

@@SouthpawActual I appreciate that bud. I'll just keep doing what I do

[@SouthpawActual]

@@KineticConsulting by the way we need more courses down in Florida.

[@KineticConsulting]

@@SouthpawActual I know man. They are coming

[@naturerancher]

Great content in this video and your others. I appreciate your low-key and humble delivery. Hope you train in the northern Rockies sometime.

[@KineticConsulting]

Checkout the schedule on my website Kinetic-consulting.net

[@Glonk_Respecter]

I’m building out a “recce-ish” rifle and this was super helpful. Appreciate it John!

[@miltonoliver3705]

I'm running an rmr on an araska offset mount, love it very easy learning curve.

[@djmm468]

I’ve been running the arisaka for about year with a rmr too. Are u running 45 degree? Can’t be beat!!

[@vxnguxrd0311]

Just got mine in today and I’m really digging it

[@ronaldluther324]

For my D-bal & Unity optic mount setup I run my Arisaka with a 1.93 rmr mount canted on a 33 degree offset. My 1/3 cowitness setup I also run the Arisaka with a 1/3 height and a 33 degree offset and it clears my OWL tact light perfectly. Awesome content my friend. 👊🇺🇸🇺🇸💪

[@pehenry]

I can't imagine why anybody would thumbs down this.

[@KineticConsulting]

🤷🏽‍♂️

[@GearPinch]

Excellent information as always. Thank you for making this. 1. For the 12 o'clock mount, are you still mounting the scope at 1.54" height? Lower? 2. Since you have a red dot for fast target acquisition, do you still leave the LPVO on 1x or pump it up to max power and leave it there?

[@KineticConsulting]

Glad you enjoyed man. I do use a 1.54 mount and it depends, sometimes I'll have it at 5x.

[@BrapBang]

Both your RMRs are mounted towards the front of the receiver. You like that better instead of mounting them further back? Great video, thanks!

[@KineticConsulting]

Yes, I prefer it. Gases tend to come back and get the lens dirty

[@spade2you]

On top of the gas issue, most scopes will put the RMR further forward due to rail space.

[@DeltaZuluActual]

Great video, thank you for the education. I was indecisive about 45 or top mount, this video helped greatly.

[@frankheffernan8066]

Another great video. Straight talk, good gouge. 👍

[@R0B3RT0191]

Okay, so I keep coming back over and over to this video cause I was so undeceive between a top mount or canted RDS, finally have my mind set on a top mounted RDS. Now, debating between a 1.53 or 1.70 mount😂

[@andrewfernandez8330]

Stock recommendation, La Rue makes a CTR cheek riser that reciprocates so the charging handle can move it. Will give you a better cheek weld for that higher mount. You can also buy it as a discounted bundle with a CTR. Ive been running them for years and couldnt be happier with them.

[@mghegotagun]

Where can I find this discounted bundle?

[@andrewfernandez8330]

@@mghegotagun Larue Tactical, under accessories IIRC

[@mghegotagun]

@@andrewfernandez8330 I assumed bundle would mean discount. Oh well, thanks though. I am planning on a RISR either way.

[@Warhorse556]

Great content. This is the kind of material that I hope gains popularity. Question for you: I've got a Geissele 1.93 mount with a Razor GenII-E on a 12.5" "do all" build. I'm looking to add a Reptilia 12 o'clock ring mount to replace the front ring and mount a RDS for passive aiming under night vision. Do you feel the 1.93 LPVO mounts are too high to then add a 12 o'clock RDS to? I've contemplated moving to a 1.54 mount, but honestly I dig the 1.93. It's a mixed use gun so it's not dedicated for any one role in particular, but I'd love to know at what point you'd consider an optic too high. Thanks and keep up the great content.

[@KineticConsulting]

Thanks man. Well, that setup depends on your head but for me a 1.93 and dot on top is definitely way to high. I'd suggest a 45/33 degree mount then

[@anx2617]

Dude, if you run a 1.93 mount and razer gen II, offset red dot is really unnecessary. Prone position w/ 1.93 mount is painful, 1.93mount is fast enough to acquire targets, red dot would not be much faster. If you really worry about speed, Just get yourself a holosun ls117 visible laser for extreme cqb and you'll be fine. However, if you have lower mounts, you need to drop your head down a lot, during that time, you might lose line up with the scope, hence cqb is much harder, and a offset red dot will help you.

[@SkintSNIPER262]

I'm intrigued to try the top mount red dot. Though it may be a little to tall for my setup. 1.70 height scope mount plus I'll need a riser for the red dot since the turret is tall.

[@ron1972]

Great video, thanks for taking the time to do this!

[@e7tegt503]

Awesome video. Thanks. I’m sold on dot on top of lpvo instead of canted. I’m assuming a 1.93 lpvo mount is a no go with dot on top method. Height over bore would be crazy.

[@KineticConsulting]

Yeah, a little too high mainly for your face more than hight over bore

[@すなはら太平洋]

Respecting from japan,even only I can use airsoft. What length is your ar15?

[@KineticConsulting]

They vary. I have a 10.5, 12.5, 14.5, 16

[@toadacus3145]

@@KineticConsulting Interesting, what are your thoughts on 11.5?

[@KineticConsulting]

@@toadacus3145 I don't mind the length. It's not a huge difference

[@Masta_E]

Thanks for the video sir! I made a new Gmail account a few years back and forgot about your channel but knew something was missing in my life ;) Resubbed to you. I ended up going with a trexarms 30 degree mount for a 507c laying around.

[@petercristiano4068]

I have an elcan red dot mount on the way. I know the zero is 100 meters for the elcan however I’m not sure of what distance for the rmr I’m mounting on top. Do you have a recommended distance? Thanks man.

[@KineticConsulting]

I use a 50yd zero for it.

[@petercristiano4068]

Kinetic Consulting awesome thanks!

[@dwells3536]

I bought a Trijicon 4x32 ACOG recently, been debating on putting a offset red dot on it. What height would you personally recommend? I’m thinking I’m going to put a Holosun 507C on it

[@KineticConsulting]

Depends on you. I prefer my optics when mounting something on top to low so the dot isn't super high.

[@Fugettaboutit]

Exactly what I needed, nice comparison. I' leaning towards top-mounted, but I usually zero my red dots at 36-yds. I wonder if this increased height-over-bore throws that off in terms of offsets, and I shoot keep it at a 'flatter' 50yd zero and just practice more holdover.

[@methusaelcebrian]

Great topic discussed. I wonder though, does the optic (rmr, holosun) zero change when zeroed on top of the rail and then mounted 45 degrees or on top of an LPVO?

[@KineticConsulting]

Yes it will probably change.

[@methusaelcebrian]

@@KineticConsulting Appreciate the response. Keep it up sir.

[@TheMich375]

Great video brother C 3/75

[@alexlevinson8629]

Love my rmr on badger COMM offset for NV use

[@davidedwards8940]

Comprehensive and complete. Many thanks

[@glycerin256]

Great video and the comments aren't trash... Gj dude, keep it up

[@millerbrosmediaoffgridflyf7767]

Super helpful info that probably saved me money - thanks!!

[@Militaristics]

which do you find works better for night vision? I have a LPVO carbine I would like to add NV passive aiming to. which option offers the best performance and ease of use with NOD's? thanks for sharing!

[@basti080891]

Im in the same situation

[@KineticConsulting]

The higher the RDS the better for passive aiming. I prefer the 12 o'clock for passive shooting although they both work with a higher mount.

[@spade2you]

I quickly found my 45 degree offset was too low for my NV. A spacer might fix that. As a civilian, the odds of me needing passive IR is extremely low. My "do all" rifle has that option, but not of my scoped rifle.

[@petercristiano4068]

If money isn’t an issue, vortex razor gen ii or iii? Thanks for always putting out great content!

[@KineticConsulting]

Depends on what you're going to do with it.

[@petercristiano4068]

Kinetic Consulting use for a “fighting” carbine, cqb but still able to reach out for distance in suburban areas

[@KineticConsulting]

@@petercristiano4068 so with the 1-6 I can reach out and PID to about 400yds ish comfortably but the 1-10 gives me out to 600yds. You may want to try one if you're in a class or with friends if possible. Scopes are pretty personal.

[@petercristiano4068]

Kinetic Consulting thanks for taking the time to respond. Good advice as always!

[@KineticConsulting]

@@petercristiano4068 no problem man

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

I mean, for an ambidextrous offset setup. Can't you just use two offset red dots if you wanted? You can get dual offset mounts these days that allow you to mount on opposite side at the same point.

[@sylaconnocalys8443]

or you can offset and piggyback, then you get benefits form both. For me I prefer shooting with a 45 from right side, which is also my dominant side. But I found that piggyback dots are more comfortable to shoot when I transition shoulder to the left, plus I also get passive aiming capabilities. So for me I would set up with both. Red dots are pretty light so weight is a non-issue, the only issue is it does get pretty pricy.

[@egonpax]

Thanks the video! What scope mount were you using with the top mounted dot?

[@KineticConsulting]

Spuhr

[@JimmyZNY]

Gread video Jon! If you don't mind asking, which handguard is mounted on both rifles?

[@KineticConsulting]

The green one is pws and the black one was a Rosco branded adm rail

[@ThisIsMajor1659]

I have a red dot on the Right side of my rifle set at 45 degrees. When it’s canted, do I account for gravity pulling the shot down and to the left with “knowing my holdover" or should dial the offset red dot so POI is the same as point of aim. Just getting a little confused.

[@KineticConsulting]

Don't over think it. If you zero it canted (where the optic is up and down like normal there won't be any time of shift other than standard holds.

[@reyvan3806]

Nice vid.

[@thetexanist]

Can you give us specific red dots that would be good? And mount recommendations? Also, does it matter if the red dot specifically says it’s for pistols? Thanks and great video. Instantly subscribed.

[@farlesbarkley1022]

Trijicon RMR, Holosun

[@ronaldluther324]

I've always used Arisaka offset mounts / rmr red dots with all of my hardware. It only makes sense for those 20 meter and below targets without using holds. My big brother optics are used for anything over 20 meters. 👊🇺🇸🇺🇸💪

[@carabinapacifista5627]

Great video! Very informative!

[@stefandavid7172]

What scope mount are you using for the Razor with RMR? Any experience with the Badger Ordnance mount?

[@SteelCityIceBirds]

I believe he said in this and other videos that he uses the Arisaka canted mount.

[@stefandavid7172]

@@SteelCityIceBirds that's for the canted RMR. I'm asking about the Razor with RMR on top.

[@basti080891]

@@stefandavid7172 you mean the 1-10x with holosun? He uses a 32mm high spuhr SP-4026

[@KineticConsulting]

With the 12 o'clock mounted dot I have the spuhr. For the 45 I have a scalar worx and arisaka

[@TheTroublemakersGuild]

So is it okay to mount the offset mount on your handguard rather than on your actual upper receiver?

[@KineticConsulting]

You can, however the handguard tends to bend or rotate slightly and that will change your zero.

[@anthonygonzales6029]

@@KineticConsulting unless you have a super solid rail like a RIS II or mk16 right?

[@KineticConsulting]

@@anthonygonzales6029 they still flex a little.

[@michaelwebb6962]

Would there still be a potential for flex mounting a canted red dot on a PRI full length top rail?

[@TheCoolbreeze45]

RMR 12 high on the 5-25 glass.loooove it

[@itzjere]

I got Frank Proctor vibes @ 10:03

[@KineticConsulting]

Funny you say that, he is one of my mentors and I taught under his company for a while too.

[@itzjere]

Groovy! :)

[@bigsexy1917]

Have you tried the 45° offset dots that mount on scopes? I have one from Ridgeline, it's been awesome for me

[@KineticConsulting]

I have. I like them

[@jeffschultz8817]

What zero distance do you use for the top mount option?

[@KineticConsulting]

50

[@ShoutCanard]

How you settings the reddot at offsetmount ? Witch target you use for settings ?

[@vmpgsc]

I've had some success using an offset red dot on my support (left) side... Just need to rotate counterclockwise in your shoulder pocket. Am I missing something as to why that doesn't work?

[@KineticConsulting]

It works to an extent but it's very awkward for me. Also depends on each person. We are all too different to everything to work for everyone.

[@ryanpeck3377]

With body armor it might not be quick or easy to rotate the toe of the stock inboard like that (could hit plate and have to reposition stock instead of just cant it) also its placing the support hand more on top of the rifle instead of underneath it the other way...that increases reach needed and also harder to have a stable platform trying hold it up rather than support from underneath. To me it just feels much more natural to do it like in the video, but it depends on the person

[@canadianpatriot2498]

In your opinion is an acog with a top-mounted red dot still a good optics choice?

[@KineticConsulting]

If you really like the acog, then go for it. Personally I dislike the acog and prefer an LPVO

[@canadianpatriot2498]

@@KineticConsulting yeeeah might be time to upgrade. I was a big ACOG BDC guy but I just watched your mildot vs bdc video and now I feel ashamed haha thanks for the advice and content

[@mig1nc]

That new Vortex compact 5x ACOG style optic is looking pretty interesting. It has an integrated doctor footprint mount on top. I'm probably going to pick one up as soon as I can.

[@TerminalM193]

Should the offset red dot be zeroed at the same zero of your main optic? My LPVO is zeroed at 100. I'm curious how hard it would be to zero a small RDS @ such distance or is it more beneficial to have the RDS zeroed at 25?

[@KineticConsulting]

Either way. It's up to you as the user and your environment

[@TerminalM193]

@@KineticConsulting where do you zero yours at?

[@KineticConsulting]

@@TerminalM193 usually at 50

[@hunterconory1048]

So do you set them at different yards? something like 12 o'clock set at 60yards and canted at 20-40yards? Thoughts??

[@KineticConsulting]

Nope. I personally put them at the same distance. Some peeps like different zeros for each. It's really up to what you need/want.

[@hunterconory1048]

@@KineticConsulting Thank you...What do you zero yours at?

[@KineticConsulting]

@@hunterconory1048 most of the time 100

[@EhvanTea]

Personally my scope is at 15 yards and my canted is at 5 yards. Everything is set for home defense so nothing will really go further than 15 yards in home defense

[@KineticConsulting]

@@EhvanTea I would advise against these zero distances.

[@DJ-zn1nt]

I’m planning to piggyback T2 using the reptilia ROF SAR on a 1.93 scope mount what are your thoughts?

[@KineticConsulting]

1.93 is a little too high to put a dot on top. Unless you have a long head

[@DJ-zn1nt]

@@KineticConsulting thanks for your input… I’ll see how it runs … should be putting it all together once all the parts arrive later today …the T2 on the 1.93 will be strictly for nightvision use … I think Itll be around 4.7 height over bore

[@anthonygonzales6029]

I got some expensive gear. What do you do for work?

[@KineticConsulting]

I teach

[@masonyouell6626]

Why model Spuhr is the “12 o’clock” mounted on?

[@KineticConsulting]

I forget the nomenclature for it but I'll see if I can find it

[@xxCOKERxxPWNxx]

Is 45 (30,35 etc) canted red dots not able to work with nods or they work only with monos and not binos etc?

[@KineticConsulting]

They work with both depending on how you set them up

[@xxCOKERxxPWNxx]

@@KineticConsulting you the man! I cant find any data or videos on it. Would you consider doing a short on it in the future?

[@KineticConsulting]

@@xxCOKERxxPWNxx possibly.

[@patricksantos361]

what scope mount height are you using for the 12oclock mounted red dot setup?

[@KineticConsulting]

Spuhr 1.3 height. It's really low.

[@KaneGregory]

Arisaka best offset red dot mount especially if you are a lefty it’s way better than Dinosaur boy’s 🦖 red dot mount!!!🤯🔫👍🏽

[@johntoughlove479]

They make skinny jeans offset dinosaur mount too. But I agree the Arisaka offset mount looks nicer. I dig that you can do either a 45 or 35 degree offset.

[@genehanna3977]

Can't seem to find this answer. Is there a rule of thumb for the mechanical offset of the canted red dot and a laser aiming module? It's set to constant parallel to my lpvo now.

[@KineticConsulting]

There isn't a rule of thumb. When you zero the red dot, it's zeroed to that distance. When you zero the laser it's set to that distance. They are both adjusted by you in your zeroing process and the offset will be based on distance and distances from the bore.

[@TheBigLeeg]

“If you don’t care that’s on you man…but you’re wrong.” 🤦🏼‍♂️🤣🤣🤣 I nearly pissed myself laughing.

[@alrijini301]

I have a Sig Sauer scope and a venom red dot off set but to avoid moving my cheek from the stock, I end up using my other eye, forexample, scope with the left eye and then rotating to the red dot my right eye is the one seeing through the optic, is my configuration incorrect? Thank you

[@KineticConsulting]

I wouldn't do it that way but as long as you zero the optics in that way, you do you man.

[@alrijini301]

@@KineticConsulting thanks I'll test it out

[@mcondon23]

Great info

[@BiggestD70]

Been running canted for ?, long time, since a time when all that was available were offset picatinny light mounts, all of the canted cons are, how you say, not a problem problem with the exception of transitions but then again there are ways, train train train and it will work itself out. Top mount? no way, tried it once, hated it, never thought of it again, great video, just subscribed, yeah lots of commas, love the shirt

[@joedirt7830]

So, I recently switched from a 45 offset (arisaka) to a 12 o'clock reptilia on a geissele mount which sports a razor 1-6, all on a 16" rifle. I zero my razor at 50, and when I had my 45 offset (dpp) I also zeroed it at 50. Now with the new mounting position I'm considering zeroing the dpp at 25 instead of 50. Is it a "bad" idea to have separate zero distances? I've seen you mention that you like 50, so is it more personal preference?

[@KineticConsulting]

It is personal preference. I usually zero scopes and LPVOs to 100 and dots to 50. It's ballisticly better in my opinion

[@joedirt7830]

@@KineticConsulting gotcha, ill definitely read more into it before I decide. Appreciate it 👊

[@ryno785]

Is a dot (canted or top mounted) really that much faster than a good LPVO like the Razor?

[@KineticConsulting]

Depends on how much you practice

[@ryno785]

@@KineticConsulting so seeing as your well versed with both, how much faster are you with the dot from low ready?

[@KineticConsulting]

@@ryno785 depends on what's going on. Am I ready to transition or is it spontaneous. There are too many factors to pick one or the other based on speed alone. You'll always be better with the one you pick and practice with. You will always suck with the one you don't practice. That's really what it comes down to.

[@mudweiser007]

If you don't mind me asking what's the weight of that rifle ?

[@KineticConsulting]

Which one?

[@mudweiser007]

@@KineticConsulting your first rifle setup with the canted red dot

[@KineticConsulting]

@@mudweiser007 with a can 11.5 lbs

[@mudweiser007]

@@KineticConsulting awesome thanks 👍

[@stephenbingham5001]

What kind of mount is that for your red dot?

[@KineticConsulting]

@@stephenbingham5001 which one?

[@stephenbingham5001]

That you have your offset dot on. Looks raised.. I’m running a 1.93 lpvo and I like how the ease of your target acquisition when transitioning

[@KineticConsulting]

@@stephenbingham5001 that's the Arisaka offset mount.

[@Second_Opinion_2]

If the rds is for quick acquisition and spontaneous situations like cqb and the lpvo is for planned careful shots, what if you canted the lpvo and mounted the rds normal?

[@KineticConsulting]

Depends man. Canting the optic would make a ballistic mess of things

[@d3ltaohniner261]

That would be putting the horse BEHIND the cart, rather than a solution, that's just a whole new set of problems.

[@thomaszhang3101]

If you ever want to cant the magnified optic, maybe a x3 micro prism is the best choice for that 😅

[@deadeye5155]

What scope mounts have the 12 o clock mount for RDS?

[@Thunderbolt22A10]

Spuhr has the ISMS system, IIRC they’re the only ones. I’m going ring mount 12 o clock

[@houseoflamarr3674]

offset eotech PROBLEM SOLVED

[@seanmstacy]

What size MOA are you using?

[@KineticConsulting]

Small as I can get

[@slateman_8490]

For the top mounted red dot, what distance do you have it zero'd to?

[@KineticConsulting]

Typically 100 but if the red dot doesn't have a fine enough adjustment on its turrets I'll zero it at 50

[@danrugbyman]

But what works best in full EOD bomb suit?

[@KineticConsulting]

Someone covering you from a preferred distance 👍🏽

[@danrugbyman]

@@KineticConsulting Good video. I learned something

[@landonweaver8333]

3 or 6 MOA on the red dot?

[@chrisengstrom8247]

for a rifle, I’d go small.

[@Kyle-oe2vs]

I like using my magazines on an AR for within 25yrds to remember offset. Pistols I also use the width of a pistol magazine.

[@chatnasty]

What do you mean?

[@kalashniben9005]

What

[@KineticConsulting]

Kyle, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Please explain

[@Kyle-oe2vs]

@@KineticConsulting Jon, It's a trick I learned from Clint Smith at Thunder Ranch a few weeks ago. On most ARs with a 100yrd zero, 10-16in barrel and 55gr loads the offset (point of impact vs point of aim) is almost equal to the width of an AR mag, about 2 inches. On a pistol with a red dot, the offset is about 1in at close ranges, or the width of a pistol mag. This hold true even when using a 33 or 45 degree offset, but of course the offset is greater when the back up dot is mounted vertically on a variable scope.

[@KineticConsulting]

@@Kyle-oe2vs gotcha. You're talking height over bore/mechanical offset. Both of those depends on your optic height, zero distance, and ammunition.

[@SheepDogNumber6]

Interesting.

[@KiDcash95]

🥰

[@LegendExpressProject]

10:03 I thought I was the only one….. !!!

[@justinblower7598]

Thus creating the mirror effect

[@2A.Freedom]

Most offset mounts makes the red dot not in line to the bore, which makes zeroing a pain.

[@KineticConsulting]

This is true

[@KELEVRA004]

depends on the mount. The badger ordnance condition 1 scope and offset mounts keeps the red dot in line with the bore assuming you are using an ar pattern rifle. Stuff like scars might get a little wonky because of how much higher the rail is over the barrel

[@thunderkat5282]

So…. When you rotate the rifle to make the optic in line with the bore, it’s not in line anymore?

[@chrisengstrom8247]

that’s not what scope shadow is

[@rung1915]

Fuckin great vid

[@Sprice93USAF]

Let's talk more about 12 o' clock piggy back dots. This is the way

[@randominternetuser2888]

All sights are offset, this just seems like an excuse to 'turn yo gat to da side like a gangsta'

[@Sanwizard1]

How much crap do you have attached to that thing?

[@PastorDr.MartinSsempa]

Let me guess. Back in your day all you used were iron sights?

[@LegendExpressProject]

Fishbait lol 😂

[@nikanor8152]

That unfinished Modlite body/mount tho 👀

[@KineticConsulting]

That's from Valhalla tactical. They make it already. I was testing it before they started producing it. Just have no reason to change it out.

[@nikanor8152]

@@KineticConsulting got it. Thanks for letting me know!

[@righteousone8454]

Honestly too much shit on the rifle. To me. I will not need a red dot on marksman rifle, but I would love a magnifier on the red dot. Owning two rifles is a better choice. Set up one for cqb and up to 100 yards. Second for marksman purposes. Of course if you can.

[@LegendExpressProject]

Operators don’t get the choice of always carrying every gun they might need. I’ll take an extra red dot on my Reece carbine over carrying a short boy as well as my precision 556. America baby

[@JTCBoss1]

You flagged us like twice