Kirby's Battlemech Compendium - Episode 5 Atlas | Battletopia Stories

[@derekburge5294]

*Slaps Atlas* "This is a weapon of terror. It is meant to terrify your enemy." *Slaps Awesome* "This is a weapon of war. It is meant to destroy your enemy." Great conversation and definitely something to contemplate. Thanks, Shrap!

[@nerag7459]

Slaps Own Face "This is supposedly an Urbanmech. I'm not sure what it is meant to do."

[@derekburge5294]

@@nerag7459 *Slaps Urbanmech* It's a meme.

[@battletopia]

Hey dude, thanks for tuning in! I couldn't agree more! The awesome is the true weapon of war. In fact just yesterday I found the most evolved Awesome in the world the 11H. 3x Heavy PPC, clan double heat sinks so the thing can fire and run every turn and never break the heat scale...it blew my mind!

[@CaptainSeato]

An UrbanMech is a terrifying weapon of war. Obviously.

[@sigulfbjornsson]

Great conversation, I thoroughly enjoyed it 😊 the elephant in the room is that when the Atlas was created by FASA back in the mid 80’s Star League tech like double heat sinks, endo steel, gauss rifles and the like had not been created yet, so the Atlas was created with the best tech available at the time. What you have done is created an awesome retcon to explain why the Atlas was built why it was and truthfully I am here for it. WellDone🎉

[@peripherypaint6361]

I thought that the Atlas was introduced with 4th edition after those techs had been introduced? I could be very wrong! In fact thinking about it now, I think you’re right, didn’t it get introduced in TRO3025? Because remembering way back I think the atlas was one of my first pewter minis I had around 93 or 94, so I guess it had to be. I think my assertion in that regard still works, though, because you can also say that it still applies because when they retconned a bunch of badass SLDF variants to OG mechs, like the Warhammer, Marauder, etc, the Atlas is conveniently left off that list, for seemingly not much reason other than to keep it somewhat weak. It also still works because even by intro tech standards, it’s a pretty one trick pony that forces its commanders into using predictable tactics and dedicating excess assets to protecting it.

[@battletopia]

Thanks for tuning in...I would like to take credit but it is all Professor Kirby and his insanely big brain that makes it work!

[@Brofisticus]

That is certainly a take. Counterpoint: 'mechs like the Atlas and King Crab were created with standard equipment to allow their mass production. Those XL engines and endo-steel frames are tough to make and a lot of those advanced designs like the Nightstar didn't survive the succession wars. The standard AS7-D was still a house 'mech until the Dark Age.

[@peripherypaint6361]

I’m certain that was a factor… counter counter point, the atlas was built with basic technology so that it wasn’t too expensive for the great house armies to buy en masse and maintain themselves. Otherwise it would be much harder for the great houses to justify using the atlas as a cornerstone mech. The king crab, pillager, etc were made with basic tech with the idea they were just there to counter the atlas, and could be mass produced cheaply without costing the hegemony too much to match the production numbers of the atlas. Why spend $20mil to defeat something that costs $9mil when something that costs $10m works just as well to defeat that $9mil? Mechs like the nightstar, thunder hawk,and advanced versions of the king crab and pillager were meant to be the actual be all end all assault mechs and were worth the cost thanks to their universal ability, not just as a foil to the atlas.

[@jamesripley8031]

I get the argument. But here's my take on it. Any time you field an Assault 'mech, you're making a bold choice. They are so expensive (Charger aside...) that you need to play to their strengths, or else you're going to be digging a deep hole for yourself. Most of the complaints about the Atlas-D are about its lack of long range options. Then comes the inevitable description of its slowness and how it gets torn apart while slowly lumbering towards an enemy that's backing away just as fast. But... I would counter, don't deploy an Atlas to an open field. Deploy it into a tight canyon, or a cluttered cityscape. Somewhere that it won't be getting picked apart by whole lances at a time. Somewhere that it can reasonably deliver itself face-to-face with the enemy at 3 hexes away with fresh armor. Once you've picked the right environment, then it comes down to lance tactics. Your Atlas IS the lance - do not leave it behind. Do not get baited into fighting somewhere else. Use your Atlas to create an "if you go here, you're gonna get hurt" zone, and use the rest of the lance cautiously so you don't get baited into leaving the Atlas behind. This will work better (as does mostly everything in Battletech) if you're using a scenario - otherwise both players are incentivized to just dance away until they find an overwhelming advantage.

[@battletopia]

Thanks for listening dude. I agree assaults are a bold choice, and one I don't usually like take. You don't always get to pick your environment though do you, nor your deployment zone. I have used 3 Atlases to close a canyon entirely to a clan star or two. And they held firm for about 3 turn but then got nuked, so royally blow up it was funny. So they can have their uses at times but I still don't like it (but I own about 4 so take them sometimes)

[@peripherypaint6361]

@@jamesripley8031 I get what you’re saying, but your arguments about picking your terrain, don’t deploy in open terrain, don’t leave the atlas behind are kind of exactly what Kerensky had in mind and the advantage that he wanted. I think your mindset is focused around the terms of how the vast majority of battletech is played, an individual tabletop game with success dependent on a win/loss in that one single battle with just the assets on the table. In that sense, sure, absolutely, just park it deep in some woods, a canyon, a city or anywhere out of sight until your opponent gets tired of waiting or somebody has to go get their kids soon, so they end of closing and annihilated. But that’s very different from discussing the use of the atlas in a battle that is part of a larger campaign in a larger conflict set in the time and place that the atlas was designed. In those hay days of the SLDF, combined arms, artillery, and air support were all common assets and in full use, though they rarely see use in tabletop play. For the same reasons, your points are very valid for the succession wars, when air support, artillery, etc was not nearly as common, but that’s not the era we are discussing in the video. So in the lore world, at the time the atlas was developed, if you tried to camp in a forest or neighborhood or whatever and create a choke point, the opposing SLDF Royals would just chuckle, sit down, crack open some beers, and let the artillery corps flatten the entire choke point and any of your troops within until all that’s left is splinters and twisted scrap. In those SLDF days, any time you try to dictate the area of engagement or forcibly create a choke point or really try to create a static defense of any kind, you’re just making yourself vulnerable and predictable in your tactics, which is what kerensky wanted.

[@KillerOrca]

Ohhh. Is this why Kerensky drove an Orion? I bet it was

[@battletopia]

Thanks for listening..also you get it! If its so good why didn't the big man drive one!

[@Aceman52]

I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. My take on the Atlas is similar to the comparison made with the Dreadnought. It's huge, well armored, bristles with weapons; it looks like an absolute killer. And it is, to a point. In the long run, the Atlas-D has its uses and is great in its optimum range and combat scenarios. But other mechs are simply better outside of those specific circumstances.

[@battletopia]

Thank for listening. Glad you enjoyed the chat, it was nice to has some things out and get them off out chests so to speak. I agree every 'mech has its uses, theatres and ranges. Which 'mech would you take over the Atlas for a generic fight?

[@Aceman52]

@@battletopia I will keep it to 3025 IS assault mechs. I would go with either the Thug or Maurader II. The Thug has all the positive traits of its parent mech, the Warhammer (strong offense and defense, good heat management), with almost none of the weaknesses. The Maurader II has everything you want in an assault mech, with the added benefit of better-than-average mobility. The MAD II beats the Atlas in every category except for raw short-range firepower.

[@HrothgarHeavenlight]

Atlas is assault mech in true way- it armament is mostly for short range with token long range , and in 3025 books it was one of heavier armed mechs overall with clear role as short range ram with plink of LRM as it close.

[@battletopia]

Thanks for tuning in. It is a proper sledge hammer when it gets the chance

[@DadalorianCreates]

in one campaign, I salvaged an Atlas with most of its weapons destroyed and filled it with LRMs and did not bother approaching anything. sat at the back, looking intimidating and then instead of moving forward, it rained LRMS sometimes FASCAM... I prefer jumpers and often nothing in the assault weight class. Heavies, Mediums, heavy lights And no the Atlas is not an assault weight Urbanmech, Urbies can Jump! The comparisons of the dreadnaught is spot on. I never liked the Atlas, as I have been playing since 85, so the Atlas was the first assault i saw and regularly defeated my mates Atlas's with Warhammers, Maurauders and Archers, even with the 275 Mafia they were easy kills. great video chummer

[@battletopia]

thanks for tuning in, I too love anything below assault mech and especially anything that jumps! An atlas as a support mech makes sense especially if there is nothing better to do the job. How many LRM's did you manage to squeeze in? I think they Atlas is a red herring and is best used as a distraction on the field so happy to hear a proper grognard, such as yourself has had the same experience. Heavies and mediums do the heavy lifting whilst assaults are grand standing or getting their asses handed to them!

[@DadalorianCreates]

​@battletopia it ended up with 4 LRM 15s with art iv, 7 tns ammo, 11 dhs, 1 ml, 1 ll. .. sit in the back , soak counter fire and drop explosive rain​@@battletopia

[@mikealpha2611]

I think you missed some bits of this conversation that are important. 1. The creation of the D Atlas created the manufacturing infrastructure and a large source of income. 2. It was marketed to houses who were mostly concerned with fighting in the periphery or measuring not an all out war. I agree it was made to be countered by the "royal" mechs.

[@peripherypaint6361]

Some thoughts on that: 1. This is true and a good point, but it also hold true for pretty much any mech that enters serial production. So I think it’s entirely possible that Kerensky was smart enough to think that if his little ploy could provide some jobs and income that may help stabilize things politically and delay the war he doesn’t want to fight, what’s the harm? 2. I think this is a good point that I should have brought up, because it kind of supports my claim. If the whole point of the atlas is to tie up resources and other assets, why not send them to the periphery as well? Any hegemony vs house action would likely be more core-ward so getting those tied up assets as far away as possible is a double win.

[@mikealpha2611]

@@peripherypaint6361 On point 1 I meant specifically the Atlas lines for the Atlas2. for example since the Hegemony didnt sell much tech outside of its direct forces Kerenky could now tell them "dont worry I have a counter for this mech already on the way sell it and finance my plans".

[@talscorner3696]

Not gonna lie, the view from the cockpit of the Atlas makes me miss the Urbie's xD

[@battletopia]

Thanks for tuning in. How can anyone miss anything about an urbanmech! I always find it funny to be sitting in an eye of the atlas, offset like in a car

[@talscorner3696]

@battletopia on the one hand, I have the impression that from the Urbie's I have a better field of view. Is it true? I don't know, but it feels so. On the other, the Atlas's doesn't have the funny "slow/less slow" speed gauge xD

[@truetheternal2314]

The atlas was a brute built to close on enemy fortifications. If the enemy can't move, then they must fight. There are plenty of other mechs that are just has slow so not an argument. Assault mechs are slow (charger aside). Also, if your focused on the Atlas then you're not putting fire on the rest of the force closing in on you making it a bad choice to target has it has the armor to take repeated volleys that would have removed a lot of other mechs from the fight. Has for the royal regiments they are manly a defensive force protecting the leadership and terra not launching assaults against other comparable forces with defenders' advantage which the atlas was specifically designed to do.

[@battletopia]

Thanks for tuning in, you are technically correct. The best kind of correct. It is a target magnet which assaults always are. Sometimes though it is very much unwanted attention as they are slow and some what easier to hit

[@CaptainSeato]

Aleksandr Kerensky was a mistake.

[@battletopia]

Thanks for tuning in, I'm intrigued how was he mistaken (or a mistake)?

[@Overonator]

There is a flaw in your argument. How come in the fiction did none of the great houses recognize that flaws of the Atlas? How come they didn't see that all the long range assault mechs that were for Royal Regiments only use and were perfectly designed to counter the short range Atlas that was available to them?

[@kirbyenoch1957]

As far as why the great houses didn’t see the flaws, I think it’s a combination of factors. First, I think that Kerensky probably used the war games to kind of set up and engineer situations where the atlas would perform brilliantly in order to make it look better than it was. Second, the entire inner sphere at this point is not exactly known for making wise purchasing decisions. Looking specifically at the Assassin here. lot of it almost feels like eh, we got tax dollars to burn, and if we spend it on mechs at least it creates a lot of jobs which keep people happy and paying said taxes. Lastly, it was pretty rare for the house armies to have access immediately to new, “good” stuff straight away. Usually the house armies got leftovers, hand me downs, and surplus equipment from the SLDF/SLDF Royals, and when they were allowed to buy new stuff it was lukewarm stuff that purposely was made to be second rate compared to what the SLDF/Royals had. So when the house armies had the opportunity to buy the “latest and greatest” thing, they probably didn’t think any more about its tactical effectiveness than they did when they bought up Chargers or Cicadas, they just liked it because it was new and they felt like they were getting top tier equipment. As far as why they didn’t see that the Royal mechs were a counter to their atlases… that’s easy. Because at that point they were all friends, so the conversation would be easy. “Hey why are my atlases so short ranged and your royals so long range?” “Oh well, we’ll be operating in the field together, so your atlases have all the short range fire power; so we don’t need it and can focus on long range fire support.”

[@Overonator]

@@kirbyenoch1957 Pretty good explanations there thanks for replying.