Kit E100: Busbar and Conduit Fun

[@ApprenticeGM]

100 terrific episodes! More than any other channel you guys show what is involved in building a catamaran, solving problems along the way, and give great encouragement that anyone can do it (with a heap of determination and work). It is terrific how open you are about various issues (material / supply delays, local government / neighbours, new design teething problems) and just great to see you constantly rise to the challenge and persevere. You are an inspiration to me, and to many - thank you!

[@SailingSVLynx]

We appreciate that, thanks for watching!

[@DVolvoguy777-x7o]

Make sure you put fish string in the conduit to make pulling wire easy! Plenty of them too! Awesome progress!

[@SailingSVLynx]

That's the plan!

[@normanboyes4983]

@@SailingSVLynxYou can always pull a line through later with a shop vac - thank me later.😉

[@normanboyes4983]

Congratulations on the 100th episode. You are making great progress and work well as a team.😀👍⛵️

[@SailingSVLynx]

Thank you very much!

[@Once-I-had-a-dream]

Another great episode, I'm slowly starting to realise how big it will be - amazing!

[@SailingSVLynx]

You and me both!

[@captainsensible298]

One kinda cool thing to have is the ability to polish diesel between tanks, you can always guarantee clean fuel, particularly in the tropics. So a transfer pump, filters and water separators to polish your fuel before it gets to your engine filters. It's a nice to have that I added on my boat.

[@SailingSVLynx]

We plan to have one, check out Episode 23. :)

[@forresta65]

i would double up the webbing sides where you cut through for the bus bars and conduit to try to eliminate a flex point across the width of the boat

[@SailingSVLynx]

There are multiple layers of glass being added over that, top and bottom.

[@sailingsomeday5975]

With those big conduite holes - if you are concerned about structural integrity you boud box them in with cut offs as well - Alot of work though if not needed.

[@SailingSVLynx]

We're not worried. There are added reinforcement basalt layers top and bottom to handle the stress.

[@haydenwatson7987]

As an engineer, I would not be concerned about the penetrations of the ribs of the bridge deck. these pieces handle in-plane shear stresses and it will distribute around the opening. The mechanics of the part is similar to the open web joists you see in the roof of every Costco. You need a strong top and bottom that has great capacity in tension and compression and enough stuff connecting them to transfer the shear between them. On the roof joists, you have strong double angles, and they are connected with spindly thin rods with lots of open space between.

[@gonesilent2814]

I'd drill some small holes on the underside of the conduit runs to allow any water that could collect a way out unless both sides stay open.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Both ends, and all the way through, will be vented.

[@WillPittenger]

Regarding moving black and grey water between the hulls, there's a risk with not having a means to do so. Those tanks in one hull might become full while the ones in the other hull would have plenty of space. If you happen to be somewhere that you can empty them, no problem. Otherwise, you'd need a way to move some to the other hull. As is, since only your starboard hull will consume fuel, but you'd want fuel in both hulls for weight distribution reasons, you definitely need a way to move fuel around.

[@SailingSVLynx]

I don't know of any boats that shift black water. If any of those tanks are full, we will empty them, by pump out or go sailing offshore. .

[@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665]

There will always be a need for communication and signaling wires going from engine bays and hulls as well as bow to stern runs. Especially as tech changes. Make sure you leave mouse lines through your ducts ....😉🧙🏻‍♂️

[@SailingSVLynx]

As for engine bays, that's why we put the two large conduits through between the bays. Bow to stern isn't an issue inside the bridgedeck as we can go up either side.

[@christopherledesma8435]

You mention power, water, and fuel going across the boat. The only other thing you may need to move across the boat is you network lines (if you are installing something like starlink).

[@SailingSVLynx]

Thise lines will all run up the starboard (or port) side of the boat, outside the sealed bridgedeck where the lines and connections are accessible.

[@bryanmyers9977]

Possible additional cables that may or may not have to cross: -lightning protection -nmea 2k cable. I can't remember if you have discussed those in the past.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Our nmea cable runs along the starboard and port sides. Sensors in the hulls come up to those lines. They cross the boat at the nav station/seating area along bulkhead 5. Stuff from the mast comes down to tie in at the nav station. Helm instruments tie into the starboard run. So, nothing inside the bridedeck.

[@charlesc.6767]

Do any a/c condensates run through bridge deck? Remember they run a steady stream of water and are annoyingly noisy splashing into the water. Any hyd lines steering etc in bridge deck? Thanks for another awesome vid.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Each of the four A/C units is located in one of the cabins, with all intake and exhaust water going direction in out out of the hulls nearby, so nothing crosses the bridgedeck :)

[@PA7RHM]

Bedankt

[@SailingSVLynx]

Graag gedaan

[@EGbasamshaka]

Maybe you should consider using a conduit for the sail ropes, to bring the ropes from the forward deck to the helm position.

[@SailingSVLynx]

The lines come from the mast area to the helm, over the cabin top. Conduits in the bridge deck would be in the wrong location.

[@zanebrimson7777]

What type of bus bars, Al, Cu? Size? Where do they go after the floor cross?

[@SailingSVLynx]

Aluminum, .5" by 4", cables are bolted to the ends. We'll go into all that when we get to the wiring stage.

[@davidnonya7359]

ep 100! i would say up to the next 100! but i dont think you want to take another 2 years! so here is to the next 50 eps of building

[@SailingSVLynx]

Thanks! Though, technically, we started building the boat at episode 30, so it took 70 to get to this point. I figure we are no closer than halfway now, maybe slightly less, so it may take us another 70 (or more). Let's hope you are right!

[@stevedunford7632]

Can I suggest you actually put a pipe in that last set of holes so that it can be used as a fallback cable route if required. Provide the airflow by drilling holes in the side of the pipe.

[@SailingSVLynx]

That just wouldn't be enough airflow, and we have more than enough wiring space in the two larger conduits. Remember that this boat will be using digital switching.

[@andersbengtsson6075]

I use waterconduit for wires, more flexible and durable a little more expensive.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Understood.

[@haydenwatson7987]

Did you run the concept of the "bridge" over the floor drain past Schionning? I am a registered Structural Engineer, and my specialty is prestressed / precast concrete. The design of this product shares the same mechanics as sandwich composite FRP, in fact, I use the same products (epoxy / carbon fiber) to repair damaged prestressed beams. When I design or see uniaxial reinforcement, it is there for one of two purposes. It is designed to carry either tension or compression in the length of the fibers and transfer it into the face of the panel. it should be thought of as high-strength string that is glued to the panel. When you built the bridge with 90º edges, you in effect cut that tension reinforcement because those thin layers have no strength to transfer that tension around a 90º corner. To bridge axial reinforcement over a cutout in the deck, the uniaxial should change elevation on a gradual ramp so that most of the force stays in the fiber and not in the glue. If you ramp up at 45º, then whatever tension is in the uniaxial, needs to be resisted by an equal force that is trying to split the foam in half. That force is in the bond to the foam and across the thickness of the foam. By going to a more typical 12:1 slope, the Uniaxial will carry over 99% of the tension and less than 1% will go into the foam. The simplest way to think about FRP sandwich design is by considering the banana. [For our purposes, the banana is straight]. If you took a banana and attached each of the ends to block and tacky, you could pull on very hard, the banana peel would hold the tension. If you turn the peel, 90º to the tasty insides, it will peel off with very little effort. Once it is peeled, the fruit can be pulled apart with almost no effort. In your bridge deck, the Uni is the peel, and the foam is the fruit. Please do not peel the fruit. If the Schionning engineers tell you that your bridge is fine, then it must be a location that has 0-tension due to the proximity of other structures and they would have told you that you could cut out the floor and installed the drain after the boat was complete. If you remember how floppy your first test layup for your cabin top rain catchment, this is the same thing.

[@SailingSVLynx]

It is not just adjacent, but right at a place where they had me add additional crossing reinforcements to handle the forces. I could have gotten away without bothering with that bridge as it wasn't reallly neccessary, it just saved me having to cut through the reinforcement layers. In addition to what Schionning had me add, I also glassed on two more layers of 600g basalt above and below, for overkill.

[@haydenwatson7987]

@@SailingSVLynx As long as the engineers are okay with cutting that reinforcement, then you should be fine, but it would have been much simpler to just cut the slot out after the deck is installed. IF they asked for extra reinforcement, what you have done provides none structurally speaking. I would suggest you send them photos to ensure that what you have done is in compliance with what they want. When you say, "but right at a place where they had me add additional crossing reinforcements to handle the forces." I read that as meaning that what you did, and where you did it is the worst combination of compounding errors. Your bridge will carry almost zero load across the joint. I assume that this is just aft of the rear cabin bulkhead which has the door in it. What you have here will mean that none of the forces aft of the door will get to the bulkhead. As an engineer, one of my greatest fears is for the builder to not see what I am saying and the misunderstanding leading to a change that causes a critical under-strength condition. Case in point, this is the type of "in-construction" change that led to the collapse, of the Hyatt Regency walkway which directly led to 114 fatalities.

[@SailingSVLynx]

I am not allowed to go into specific details on this, but this has been engineered to be strong with several different reinforcements. Nothing is going to fail.

[@haydenwatson7987]

@@SailingSVLynx THanks. I just wanted to make sure that what you did was in conformance with the engineering because it creates a weak spot. The bridge does the same thing as cutting the basalt on each side of the drain and if they are ok with that then I am. If they require reinforcement to cross the drain you have none.

[@williambackus9723]

i enjoy watching your progress and wish you best for the build. following is none of my business...as architect it is always a headache when i visit residential construction site after framing and observe that mep has cut holes thru structure following their own installation logic and ignoring structure design. i suggest you have designer check beam penetrations you have shown in this episode for their locations, sizes, edge distances with respect to calculated design stresses. there are rule of thumb edge distance and position requirements to accommodate typical fiber stresses per shear/moment calculations. sister joists if needed to reinforce cut areas.

[@SailingSVLynx]

We check with the designers of the boat.

[@alexdieudonne1924]

Too late now should had one busbar on the other side on the divider, if that compartment floods it will arc across.

[@SailingSVLynx]

It's in the bridge deck, far above the waterline. If that floods I have much bigger problems.

[@WillPittenger]

Take into account how well your boat would handle if your electric propulsion system breaks down. With only the engine, you might have issues.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Think of how your boat would handle if one of your diesel engines fails and you can only motor with one... same issue.

[@WillPittenger]

@@SailingSVLynx It's not worse. Just something you need to take into account and differently than you would with diesel only.

[@SailingSVLynx]

How so? Let's look at the various scenarios. If my batteries quit, I can still power both props with the diesel as it acts as a generator and can send power to the other electric motor. If I lose my diesel, I can still turn both props with the electric motors. If I lose both electric motors, I can still turn one prop with the diesel, but in this case, an over sized diesel (80hp instead of 50hp, which is what would be in the boat if I were a two diesel engine boat). Compare that to a diesel boat, if I lose either diesel, I just have one 50hp engine.

[@WillPittenger]

@@SailingSVLynx No, the complete hybrid system fails. Not the batteries. All I said was it was different and take the differences in account. I didn't say one was better than the other.

[@SailingSVLynx]

@@WillPittenger I covered that in my reply. We motor off the 80 hp diesel. Catamarans motor most of the time on one engine only. They typically only use two in port for maneuvering. Maybe you don't understand that the electric moyors are separate from the diesel. Either can run without the other.

[@derekmoore2779]

Use plastic, steel conducts. Electrisity

[@SailingSVLynx]

For what, Derek?

[@1littlelee]

any waterproofing god forbid the boat take on water, sea water conducts really well, make a circuit breaker that kills EVERYTHGING immediately, from the battery's and generators, also i hope you are not going to be using steel as the bus bars, the current of say 400A at 24 Volts will cause those bars to heat up and it will melt through the plastic and foam

[@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665]

24v up to 48 V is touch safe .. the batteries are connected to the rest of the wiring system by isolation switches and breakers each battery in the bank usually has built in controls as well.

[@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665]

No one would use steel... Those interconnecting buzz bars will be copper..though national grid cables also use Al and the latest generation use copper and and carbon fiber. Each bank should use fused interconnects at the bank and 12..24 and 48v are touch safe . Each battery usually has its own protection system .

[@SailingSVLynx]

No, we aren't using steel, we went with Aluminum, and we way oversized them for the current they will carry. We will also be a 48v boat, so higher voltage is easier on current loads.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Everything (each battery) has very fast blow fuses, and the busbars are appropriate grade aluminum, oversized.

[@1littlelee]

@@SailingSVLynx I NOT talking about volts its the amps that kill, but more importantly the heat generated could be quite high