PoE Theory: Who is the Boss of the Ring? (Heist)

[@KittenCatNoodle]

Some contenders who were brought up (and I didn't analyze) from comments (some on the previous version of this video): - Weylam Roth: This is an interesting one. We don't know how long Weylam has been dead, or how far he can get from his boat that his soul is tied to (similar to Fairgraves). It's definitely a possibility, he was a pirate after all! But he seems to want to stick with Lilly, although she could also be involved. I'd say this is definitely possible, because you can take a boat to Rogue Harbour, but maybe less probable because I don't think his background fits with the stories of the Rogues. He's been pirating around the seas for his lifetime, leading the Warband The Brinerots until his sister Lussi Roth dropped him on a deserted island to die. - Bestel: I think Bestel has some hair under his hat. Also, Gianna finds a play written by Bestel that she doesn't like very much, which would actually be funny if Bestel was the Boss, so I like the idea. He doesn't strike me as the most adventurous, but he'd be a fun Boss! - Huck: I didn't include Huck because of his head covering. I think it's possible, because he's not included in any of the Heist art. This has led some to believe he's the leader of the Ring. I personally think he was just added in later, or poor Huck was the one taking the "family photo" and excluded from it. Definitely a possibility, but all we know about Huck is that he's a nice guy who was dismissed from the Blackguards and cares about his friends. Not enough background for me to surmise his status

[@davood123]

sidenote: Weylam Roth is like the best kind of haunting. a loving helpful grandpa . wish my grandpa would haunt me and give me advice and stuff !

[@pastooleo1]

The boss is the Gondolier!

[@anotherks7297]

Another thing: When what's his name (barber) was talking about the Boss being hairless, I thought that was soley referring to the fact that he could gain so little intelligence on just what kind of person the boss is. It seems weird that they would focus on his actual baldness.

[@KittenCatNoodle]

@@anotherks7297 I think it's because the Boss uses Whakano the barber for gossip (from haircuts, for our reveals) and that the Boss doesn't use Whakano's haircutting service at all. It's totally possible Whakano is totally off, purposefully lying, or just assuming because he's not being used as a barber for the Boss

[@crispinmcsticks]

A potential point considering your hesitation of Vorici being a performer: as an assassin, you’d have to fit in, make sure you don’t stand out. What better way to avoid standing out than to be a talented enough performer that you can just adapt to any situation as naturally as possible?

[@dawbra]

So you want me to belive that the boss isn't Chris Wilson ?!

[@KittenCatNoodle]

Oh snap you're onto something...he said it Chris don't come for me

[@mmoreaper1814]

that was my thought when heard boss is hairless :)

[@evidance3715]

Switch a few letters...Chros Wolsin... Crush Wolcen??? o.O

[@nevous8]

I can't see Vorici giving me a 10K bonus after killing and interrogating him 100 times.

[@xenogard]

From Lore Master to Conspiracy Master **puts on tinfoil hat** Still sane, Exile?

[@KittenCatNoodle]

I think we all know the answer to that is a resounding noooooo

[@patrickbo2045]

Your sanity is an illusion, Exile!

[@limaTheNoob]

Did you see that GGG recommended your lore series in an official post of theirs? Well deserved recognition!

[@KittenCatNoodle]

Yes that was awesome!! Thank you

[@truesoundwave]

Its the gondolier. When you go to the harbor, it's canonically by boat. Its not unreasonable to assume the boss talks to you on these rides indirectly. Hence why he likes you so much. It also gives him an opportunity to talk to everyone as he ferries the boat, keeping up to date on info. A very important detail. That 10k marker bonus. Who have we paid these markers to access the harbor? The gondolier again. He's aware of the cat. He paid us back what we were giving him this entire time as the bonus. You canonically get the bonus...right in front Him. Who could suddenly pull out 10k markers with ease? One we paid 10k markers to access the harbor over and over. Someone who has seen our investment and commitment directly. Who watched us travel to the harbor countless times. Listening to the possible praises of other rogues while also ferrying them. You could say its not, that they should recognize him such as gianna. The boss is hinted as a master in all Rogue fields, including deception(disguising). He takes on many forms. He's good at blending in silently. He's a gondolier. He has some level of endurance physicality. Something a gladiator would have. When players complained about the portal mechanics, instead of adding a portal, they moved the gondolier.... Who stands in face of Kurai. The dude is almost certainly bald. I think that's the one major detail ggg didn't obscure in some manner about the boss The gondolier is certainly bald at his age, wearing a helmet while Whakano simply doesn't wish to out him directly.

[@Lukas-pk3vh]

So nobody suspects Huck, which is the only one that is missing in the Heist background picture and also wears a full helmet all the time

[@tec5412]

We also got Huck's mask as a challenge reward during heist. Could be a grey fox type deal. The boss isn't just 1 person but changes over time and made out as if it's the same person.

[@josephpatterson5777]

Buology here. Noodle, I am very confident that the boss is the collective of the heist rogues. Each describe features of another member. Of many faces. They try not to let emotions interfere with the common goal. But the one attack on Hanna was an attack on all of them. The boss is loyal like how curator didn't betray you. Does niles live underground? The boss is an idea like in the princess bride or the village. Wasn't tibbs a stable boy? This would be a more coherent rant but I'm typing in between busy moments at work. I think those two final missions will show that rogue starting it or the one before the last will mention meeting up with the boss and the final one where you go into the planning room and all of the rogues are there and now you too are indoctrinated as "the boss" "I heard the boss has met face to face with innocence and is a godslayer."

[@KittenCatNoodle]

Honestly I think either Kurai is the Boss, no one is actually the Boss, or it's this team (like your idea). But I wanted to try to figure it out based on the "clues" from rogues even if we will never truly know!

[@patrickbo2045]

To be fair, I still think either Kurai or Adiyah is the boss and trolls everyone else into not knowing it via false information.

[@luizgagliardi6614]

Laughed out loud at "Maybe the boss was inside us all along".

[@ArturFlintchannel]

I AM TRUE AND THE ETERNAL :D

[@karlebykok9177]

I'm pretty sure to choose Huck who would be the boss, job level max: 3 (a low profile), this make us totally ignore him for heist gear

[@TexusEn1gma]

This video alone deserves hundreds of likes from PoE community

[@levislevitas]

it's fine to look at fragments of info but it's disjointed and liable to over or under reading. it's more important to pay attention to the narrative context and GGG's effort at creating suspicion or suggestion. what unlocks a sensible interpretation is having the correct big picture view, otherwise fragments underdetermine interpretation. (see quine-duhem for a formal take on this situation) for the boss it's pretty obvious that it's kurai just by looking at the main heist questline with the vox twins. read their conversations. vox bros never address kurai as the boss, but they speak to her as if she's in charge and not an intermediary even when it comes to a mafia war. they also know that the boss's identity is supposed to be secret, and it is omerta to break that to an 'outsider.' vox hinted at threats to reveal that information which kurai immediately put a stop to, and later on talk about kurai never doing the dirty work herself. as someone who's heard mob trial wartime stories from my stint at SDNY, the whole 'who's the boss' schtick is also itself suggestive/reference to the idea that cover stories are random and not informative. nobody can talk about who's the boss, but if asked should give misleading fluff to stop the questions. you need to be a higher rank to get in the know, and everyone's just stringing you along until then. this makes reading too much into those random bits all the more useless.

[@DonTheCrown]

and so by all known definitions of the word boss, ie one with authority over another. In nine of eleven known possible fields in which one might teach, employ, guide, oversee, and or otherwise hold dominion the empericially provable answer to the question "who's the boss" is? Angela Bower

[@KittenCatNoodle]

Don get out

[@Vaasth]

what about Gianna? she is master of disguise for a reason after all

[@kevint7116]

I don't think Riker taking contracts should really eliminate him as a candidate for the boss, as it could be intentional misdirection as his whole shtick is about complex machinations, his artefact that he is after in his contract(the hand of Arimor) is actually sitting just next to the door to the bosses room in the planning room of the rogue harbour and the fact that we never meet the boss could be precisely due to the fact that we have beef with Riker. as a side note I find it pretty sus that The artefact that Riker is going after is the one that has to do with eternal life especially after all the betrayal shenanigans.

[@Hasekbowstome]

I just read the Lore Q & A from GGG and saw the link to your stuff, which I was unaware of until seeing it linked by GGG. I just spent a couple hours playing Heist and watching your Complete Lore Series on my other monitor, and I just gotta say... wow! I gave up on the lore of PoE pretty early into it because it's kind of convoluted and not easily presented, but you do such a fantastic job of putting all of it together and using all of these disparate parts to tell the story of the game and its world in a really compelling and interesting way. This is fantastic stuff, truly impressive!

[@fhgwdads05]

KCN, you've ignored one possibility here - Grigor. Theatrical? Check. Knowledgeable? Check. Hairless? Check. (as far as his model shows) He conveniently "vanishes" prior to our return to Sarn in A8, going off "to find his true self" as Clarissa puts it. The only knocks against this theory, IMO, are this: - Whakano calling the Boss "old" - for this, Eramir definitely fits better. - Maramoa and Hargan's statements about Grigor - these seem to imply that maybe he really did head off to find Ezomyr.

[@gmofftarki]

I was thinking Grigor as well. His disappearance is conspicuous, compared to basically every other story character. Also, he's manipulative. If you look at his lines, he clearly only tells the player what he wants them to know in order to go along with some plan he has (like not revealing that Dominus is on Wraeclast until after we had killed Piety). Another idea would be that the boss is the Immortal Syndicate in general, and each of the Rogues has a different member with whom they've always met. It would be a cop-out, but feels better than it just being a single member (and, while Vorici might not care about the cat being killed, one of the others might... with Kurai specifically choosing that one to get approval for her mission).

[@ixy291]

From the first time I played Heist, I put zero stock in any of the boss' stories. I just assumed he/she made up a persona for each of the rogues recruited into the ring to help keep his/her true identity secret. If you're everyone, then you're no one. I swear to God I always thought the cat was the boss. Like, literally the boss. A super smart cat or a human in the form of a cat. She's always there at the table. Can't give away her true identity because no one would respect a cat. It starts to make sense, right? (RIGHT?!)

[@ArturFlintchannel]

And she is Maven from 3.13 XD That's why she appears in her true form. And not because of The Elder disappearance)

[@jamesmcv]

It's pretty obvious to me that there is no Boss. He is an invention of Kurai. She is the actual Boss

[@wygiwyg]

looking forward to the upcoming heist lore compilation !

[@Hysteresis.Actual]

Maybe the real boss was all the exalts we printed along the way?

[@ILikeGuns1992]

I think another popular theory is Huck because he is not presented at any Heist art, wears mask, powerful combatant and have many talents. Didn;t even though of anyone outside of Ring lol.

[@KittenCatNoodle]

Yeah I considered Huck because of that but he has a face covering and there's not much known on his background so Huck got left behind...just like in every Heist I run without him

[@alexkhakimov9517]

I think the boss was Dominus until you killed him, then Kurai takes up the mantle of the boss without telling anyone. There's a lot of dialogue that flirts with this idea, but nothing concrete.

[@pastooleo1]

Hey Kitten, I'm wondering what you think of the linkages between Metamorph and the Thaumaturgist heist bad guys? I think it's pretty clear that Tane's master and these Thaumaturgist dudes are working with the same sort of organ magic or whatever, and they even share a lot fo aesthetics with the Metamorph stuff and Tane's design. Additionally, often when you walk in on Tane, he seems to be talking to his master as if he's still there and still alive in some form. I'm pretty sure at one point he says "I'll never let you rest". Then, you have the Thaumaturgist dudes that, sometimes when patrolling, will say "Shh! Shh! He whispers... Yess... Yesss" as if they're being spoken to by some omnipresent voice. Could it be the voice of Tane's master? Are both Tane and these Thaumaturgist dudes the results of experiments by their master? Can they hear their master speaking, who is maybe somehow still alive in some incorporeal form?

[@bernardo.bridon]

Maybe the true Boss are the friends we made along the way

[@Gillhawk]

After listening to almost all your videos I can conclude the Kurai quest line was written for you. Thank you and keep up the good work!

[@xervy4082]

Its the cat that sits in the planning room

[@KittenCatNoodle]

But... That cat gets killed 😭

[@xervy4082]

@@KittenCatNoodle guess I quit the league early ):

[@ac4th371]

Why does everyone assume the Boss is someone we've already met?

[@chicomanara]

Before trying to find a fit, before even Heist release, I believed Jun might be a good fit. She is part of a order that protect powerfull artifacts, but that does not check at all. Oh, well.

[@demiboi0315]

We all know that the Boss is Kitten Cat Noodle

[@ProfWollhoven]

Everything you assumed for Vorici could be also assumed for Hargin. Maybe it was actually Hargins plan to steal a relic that he could sell himself. Maybe it's just his plan to convince people like you that it's impossible for Hargin to be the Boss. The story with the poisoned horses sounds like someone with a good sense for money did this job and a well trained Assassin wouldn't be so scared and carefull to let everyone visit him only in a cloak. Pretty sure that Vorici could easily handle people attacking him in a territory he knows best. So would bet in Hargin rather than Vorici

[@KittenCatNoodle]

I would've thought Hargan but I just don't think he'd let Adiyah take a precious artifact like Solerai's Spear and return it to her people, if he was the one Nashta was going to sell it to

[@ProfWollhoven]

@@KittenCatNoodle I totally agree with that but like I said, what if he did it just to convince people that Hargan is'nt the Boss at all? I mean, even you think that he's not the Boss and that sounds like something an intelligent and sneaky dude would do to hide his real identity.

[@KittenCatNoodle]

@@ProfWollhoven Maybe! That would certainly be big brain chess moves right there. He's my second runner up so I definitely don't discount the possibility!

[@PmmGarak]

I still refuse to even touch "Hyrries Gift". Noone kills cats. ever.

[@KittenCatNoodle]

I have never been more shocked in a game, no joke. I also can’t complete that one again, or if I do, I look away

[@verzeihturncoat27]

The tapestry we weave is complex indeed. Vorici´s desire to build his organization pre betrayal league is well known by the older player base. So my money is on Mister "What do I have to do to find even one good killer.".

[@Notsogoodguitarguy]

Hey Kitten!!! Sorry, comment unrelated to the video, but, do you happen to have a repository with the memories and quotes from synthesis league? I've been trying to find the Cavas memories, but only thing I find is the final scene where he realises he's Venarius.

[@KittenCatNoodle]

Sadly I don't! I hadn't started this project then. I wish I did. I just refer to text that people saved, you can find some posts on reddit

[@Notsogoodguitarguy]

@@KittenCatNoodle Aww, that's a shame. I've been running parts of PoE in my D&D campaign, and Venarius is such a great villain. The whole arc with Cavas is just incredible, but...yeah. I guess I'll have to wing it.

[@KittenCatNoodle]

@@Notsogoodguitarguy Here's the reddit thread I refer to if I want to check out synthesis memories! www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/b2a1gy/compilation_of_cavaszana_synthesis_lore/

[@pyroo2726]

Damn, I bet it's fun being you, I can never connect all these things together even if I tried to. but it sure is hard work, thank you for the effort!

[@Narutofan444]

For a second I thought you were releasing a bonus episode of the podcast. Boy did I get baited ;_; . Speaking of baited expectations: I really appreciate how you guys approach your criticisms of PoE. I think we as gamers could communicate with developers better if we all tried to empathize with their original intent and talk through what we thought of as flaws in the execution instead of just saying THING BAD.

[@KittenCatNoodle]

I appreciate the nod to Lindsay Ellis, haha. I agree, and I'm glad you're enjoying the podcast!!

[@mayhem3840]

BTW the word Faridun exists in arabic, it's plural for "farid" which means unique, i'm nearly 100% sure that's where they brought it from

[@KittenCatNoodle]

That is awesome!! I will look into that for my other videos. Thanks!

[@epicfailtrain]

Amazing work as always Noodle, thank you! You are the undisputed queen of PoE lore.

[@catmasterOP]

hairless bearded suspects monkaS *hides*

[@KittenCatNoodle]

I'm onto you... A cat master would definitely want revenge on the Vox twins. 🧐

[@alderion2166]

remember, the boss is taller than Tibbs, who is that taller on wreaclast?

[@KittenCatNoodle]

I'm guessing you're talking about Vinderi's story? I don't know if he was actually talking about the Boss. He says that man stopped him from blowing himself up and then arrested him. Then Vinderi was exiled, and that's when he started working for the Ring. While this is supposed to be Vinderi's story about the Boss, it seems like he's talking about something unrelated, which is very...Vinderi of him

[@Volthoom]

Can Tangmazu be the Boss? Mhm, probably not, as the timeline doesn't add up - Tangmazu only wakes up after we kill the Beast, and the Ring is operational way before that. But still, if we discount the timeline not adding up, it'd work really well.

[@alexmaragh7766]

The real boss were the friends we made along the way

[@SuperJg007]

well, it would be cool if we could get a syndicate members vs rogues kinda thing. got a lot of cool npcs now.

[@demiboi0315]

Well, Kurai could still be the boss. I mean she could be shaved and bald you know...

[@Shadowquacker]

While playing Heist I assumed that “The Boss” was Kurai’s cat Hana... but then later on... not so much ;-)

[@PutYourQuarterUpGaming]

So late lol but I think plays is a clear hint. Assassins, spies get have to act undercover often right.

[@stevennichols3421]

Commented on first release, comment on revised edition. Keep the lore coming! 🤠

[@adradox]

"Hillock is not that smart"... or that what THEY want you to think!

[@Nimroc]

I honestly prefer the idea that the Boss is basically a made up figure, a way to give the group some leverage and security by pretending to have some greater backing.

[@ZerotZallander]

The boss is ofc Chriss Wilson :D

[@havyn88]

As long as they don't kill dogs, I guess they're fine.

[@alexdougal8968]

Rofl ggg really did just finish heist like a high schooler finishes their month long project and be like nah it's good not going back to clean it up I'll take the C+

[@lordofchaosinc.261]

Poor Hana. I spent a lot of time getting to 24 challenges in heist only to get the calico back (in some way).

[@alexseguin5245]

"Maybe the Boss was inside us all along" LOL That was a fun video! Also, we don't have to guess that Vorici was a good lockpick, as he explicitly said so when he was one of the forsaken masters: "I was quite the lockpick back in Oriath..." Unrelated to this video, but your Path of Exile theories have inspired me to write down a theory that I've been thinking of for a while. I think I may have figured out the origin of the Atlas of Worlds and who the main antagonist of Path of Exile 2 will be. Is that something you would be interested in knowing?

[@KittenCatNoodle]

If you're willing to share, I'm interested! And thank you!

[@alexseguin5245]

@@KittenCatNoodle Finally got around to writing it down. I don't know what's the best way to contact you, but I sent it to your Twitch e-mail. Thanks!

[@sergeytrinker2269]

I prefer think that we are the boss or Huck, it can easy be written in PoE 2, like old exile rule them all

[@luless666]

Angela, she's the boss, Abed figured it out years ago.

[@knaz7468]

Does your answer change 100% to Eramir given that Matt Dymerski chose him as his boss shirt for Exilecon?

[@samylarbi390]

anything new in the lore of the boss at 3.24

[@samylarbi390]

the boss is the frineds we mad along the way lol

[@ArturFlintchannel]

Eramir time: Starts playing "Angels and Demons", the ost with one of the strongest voice backgrounds from Kamil... Also, it starts just in time. I love good montage :D

[@Logined85]

Absolutely outstanding work. Lovable and contained. There is just one thing. Please pay attention to the names. Some of them are articulated ingame so it's clear how the pronunciation stands. The overall it's beautiful. Will watch all videos eventually. Keep up a good work.

[@Slayer-Knight]

We started off with the premise that we are supposed to know the boss already? Or that we were supposed to figure out who the boss is? I don't think these things are true. I don't think we can go off with what Whakano says to start trying to figure it out. My gut feeling tells me, based on how these type of "mysterious evil criminal mastermind" stories work, and how all the NPCs tease you with a bit of possibly misleading information, that we are not supposed to figure out who the boss is, and probably will never find out. Or maybe we will find out in a later league, if we pay close attention, because it will probably be VERY subtle. All the details given by the NPCs are probably red herrings, rumours spread by the Boss themself to create confusion and disguise themselves in plain sight. I feel like Faustus is the one most close to the truth, saying that all the stories related to the boss are lies in reality. In case we DO know the Boss and don't know it, then probably the stories that the NPCs tell you are, in fact, the opposite of what is true. If that is the case, I feel Kurai is probably the Boss. I don't know if she's the opposite of what the NPCs say, but having her refer to "the Boss" while being the Boss herself is a pretty "Boss" maneuvre.

[@Theta40]

Hey Noodle do you have any money left after the latest cat pet releases? :D

[@KittenCatNoodle]

I'm holding myself back... For now. We'll see how long that lasts. I give it a few hours

[@miranda6]

6:14 "How boring and small" is this a Sirus reference? A little OOT, but Sirus resonates with me a lot. In some hipnotizing way I love to hear over and over his last letter in elderslayer citadel, where he describes what happened to him after defeating the Elder. When he was trapped in glass for eaons and he ascended to finally comprehend the exitense itself on a whole different level. It has a kind of magnetism to it. Also despite how much he infuriates me while fight, I really do believe him, when he says "this city is nothing!" - all the power within this grotesquely changed voice. Damn, Sirus. Sometimes I do regret I have to kill you :P (P.S. I don't like, however, voice actor :( ).

[@Krutontar]

A conspiracy theorist is just a Loremaster who can work with a limited data set. I'm really pissed you don't learn who the boss is. The Boss is GooDaddy from Metamorph who we never fight who is also the Blight Core...who is also Sin...because.

[@vulcanz1327]

Your welcome back exiles make us so depressed

[@wexoriann]

New subscriber I like it, More people should talk about Poe lore :)

[@wow123400]

The boss might be wearing a wig

[@KittenCatNoodle]

Could be! Honestly I don't even buy my conclusion, I don't think we have enough info to know at this point. Still wish the cat Hana had been the boss...

[@wow123400]

@@KittenCatNoodle Like the cat

[@gonzavera]

The Boss is the parents.

[@turkaybakan478]

If I were GGG , I could make characters that be the final boss who we met earlier. I mean everybody wants to get rid of from old content leagues that we dont really need. Who needs Cadiro at all ? Let Cadiro be a final boss and we kill him and no more perandus league. Thats the best way to keep lore safe. Think about when we first killed Greust. Not a single gamer was unhappy. We all felt joy in our hearts. I wont be suprised if we kill someone we know as a boss, someone we dislike. I fucking hate Navali btw cuz its been like 3-4years and got nothing by prophecy. Oh wait there are still talismans that 0/10 using.

[@davidanderegg1232]

Think you skipped over Riker too soon. Using a fake name to get someone to do a task your too lazy for us 100% what a boss would do. Also what if it’s Katarina? Just gets randos from the syndicate to fill in which is why whakanno has so many conflicting stories

[@bigbuddymark]

i bet my eye it's Guff

[@KittenCatNoodle]

MY KIDNEY!

[@cherry9love]

Amazing vídeo.

[@lunarforce]

I think it's the wayfarer

[@Fwibos]

It's obvious from these POE scenes that I don't play POE right.

[@DaJM4]

the boss is thane octavius

[@BladeBloodreaver]

Maybe Kurai is transgender and used to be male, did all those things, gender swapped to hide her true identity and is now both manager and CEO of The Ring :O.

[@adamhunter1223]

My guess: Bestel.

[@georgewilliamgutarracampos6262]

Sorry but nobody knows who the final boss of the league is, yet?

[@sirpatrickspence6171]

Siosa?

[@Main_Protagonist]

The boss is just a big jojo reference really...

[@anotherks7297]

Bestel

[@TheUlf]

I mean... is it not 100% clear Lady Kurai is definitely the Boss?

[@KittenCatNoodle]

I guess if you take her giving us the bonus, the twins being the final contract, and her not talking about her background as "100% clear"... But God I hope not that's pretty boring.

[@Blecco]

Rewatching this vids before PoE 2 and I'm just here to say the Vox twins suck.

[@pakupalos]

is it you'r shtic to pronounce in-game names incorrectly ? :D its Adiya not adIya, [ai]la not [e]la :) also kUrai*