Knife Chats Almost Live: USAF Emergency Knives

Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @knifechatswithtobias
I guess you could say this is a brief history of the Emergency Fixed Blade Knives used by the United States Air Force.

[@B61Mod12]

Brother, this kind of detailed explanation by passionate and knowledgable SMEs is the true value of KZbin. Thank you.

[@randallkelley3599]

In 1960 my cousin left his car with us while he went on a Navy ship to somewhere in the Pacific. Gone a year, when he got home he gave me, (a 10 year old), a Navy (1942) machete, a fixed blade with stacked leather handles, and a canteen with cup. Still have the machete and canteen. Little things for a boy mean so much. My cousin had 6 stripes as I recall. Don't know what that is in Navy terms.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Me and Navy rank don’t mix. They have so many ratings my head spins. Really cool stuff your cousin brought you! Thanks for sharing.

[@fred1barb]

I was issued a Camilus knife at Hunter AAF in 1969, The knife is date stamped 6-1967 and the sheath does not have the sheet metal plate. The one issued to me was not new, the sheath and handle were well worn. Most of the knives issued that day were brand new and all of them had the sheet metal on the sheaths. None of the knives issued that day, used or new, had sharpened false edges. The false edge was thin but not cutting sharp. The factory edge on the blade was not very sharp. The included Norton stone was a trial to use. I don't think that any of us actually sharpened our knives. When the training was over, we had to turn in our other survival gear, water wings, strobe light, and flare pen, but not the knives. The knives became part of our personal gear and we were told to take them to our next post. Everyone in my class and everyone in the sister class at Rucker expected to be sent directly to the RVN, but instead we were sent to Texas or Maryland, to units that did not have enough aircraft. I went to an Air Cav troop, one of 38 pilots for three choppers, to wait for assignment to the RVN. Like the other pilots I was issued cold weather gear and a shelter half, all to be kept ready if famous ballon went up and we deployed to Europe. I turned in all of that gear when I left Texas for and advanced course at Fort Rucker and at no point did anyone mention the knife. I went from Rucker to the RVN, knife in my helmet bag, and on arriving at my new unit, another Air Cav troop, I was issued a folding SS Camilus knife, a radio, a .38 and a chicken plate. I quickly discovered that almost none of the pilots carried the issue survival knife. Chest armor made it impractical. A few guys wore pistol belts because they favored the .45. Many pilots bought a Gerber Mk1, a good fighting knife, but not a good utility or survival knife, But like the issue knife the Gerber was awkward to wear. Some guys stowed them in chopper. I kept an M3 strapped bulkhead behind my seat, but reasons I don't recall I did not keep a fixed blade in my OH-6. A comment on the seemingly useless saw teeth. True they were not good for sawing wood, but they could be used to make a neat square profile notch, which according to one survival class instructor, made for a more secure lashing than a V shaped notch sliced into a stick. Also while the knife was not supposed to be hardened to a high Rockwell number, many people discovered that you could break off the tip by using the blade as a pry bar.

[@lanedexter6303]

Fascinating, Tobias! Like many, I have a recent Ontario 499 (because, well, everyone should have at least one of these knives). Too bad you didn’t have some plexiglas and aluminum aircraft skin for testing. 😀 I do have some plexiglas, but nothing thinner than 1/4 inch. And I just remembered I have a pair of Huey bench seats in the barn (don’t ask). But I’m not eager to damage those in the name of science. Maybe I’ll test those teeth on some aluminum flashing…🙄

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I think you're correct about owning an example of this knife. If you collect fixed blades, survival knives, or military knives, I feel an example of this knives belongs in your collection. I have a piece of 1/4 inch plexiglass. I should see it will cut it. My bet is it will shatter it. I did give that tin can a few cut with the saw top and it opened the hole up by about a 1/4 inch more than just the simple puncture. A young stud pilot with the proper motivation (life or death) would be able to do much more damage I suspect!

[@billballbuster7186]

Over the years I bought the Camillus Aircrew knife in 1969 for use in the British army, we had nothing like this available to us so we ended up obtaining these or the West German field knife. I was really pleased with the finish, it looked really good especially when the leather was oiled. It was also really tough, the German knives had a habit of snapping the blade around the first screw hole in the handle. I bought an Ontario some years later, 1996 ?, and it had a very rough finish, but it did not alter the functionality at all. I used it as a cheap camping tool and it worked very well. I was going to get the ASEK but the price was prohibitive, over $100 even back in 2009! Love these talks on military stuff, keep up the good work!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I was lucky to find a used ASEK for around $70-$80 and even at that price I thought it was way too high. That was about 2 years ago. I needed to repair the bottom of the sheath (a few stitched to some torn nylon. And it is missing the leg straps but other wise it was in excellent shape. Is it worth $70? That's always a judgement call. But I will tell you this. I'm not going to pay $100+ for a new one!

[@WilliamsKnifeLife]

Thanks for the shout out Tobias. Yes, my Hobo armor test could be improved. I'm usually doing a short thrust of 6 inches. It would definitely go through the can if I gave it my full thrust. Neat can jab

[@WilliamsKnifeLife]

My Ontario is marked 3-11. I looked at the swedge on mine & they did a wonky grind on that. I'll have to show it in a close up. It makes the tip look bent, but it's just a bad grind on that swedge.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Yeah, I kind of felt like I was throwing you under the bus. And when you think about it, I really wonder is a pilot in a F4 Phantom would've had the ability to punch into the side of his canopy. A crew in a C130 or B52 would have the chance. Possibly a crew member in a Huey. But I think the fighter pilot might be screwed.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

@@WilliamsKnifeLife , Slick Slicers also has a 3/11. And his clip is also not sharpened. I can't imagine the DOD was still requesting it for a service knife 8 years after being declared obsolete. My bet is Ontario opted to drop the sharpened clip. When you consider the ASEK also lacks a sharpened clip, it would seem the requirement was no longer there even if it was still something that could be requested.

[@mikecurtis2585]

That's a lot of great information! Always fun to listen to!!!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[@JoseGonzalez-yx6vm]

Really interesting to learn about history and purpose behind these knives, thank you for the video.

[@CommonCentsOutdoorsman]

That was a great presentation sir. Love the history lesson and the nostalgia associated with these knives. Also love the simple way of thinking back then in both design and materials. It's what was known and what they had. The ASEK was definitely an improvement. Also love the romantic images of pilots cutting through aircraft skin and wire bundles, field dressing their dinner and dispatching enemy pursuers after said dinner. I'm inspired to put my early 80's Camillus to video. I may have a unique perspective as both a knife guy and old retired Air Force electrician and Aircraft Battle Damage Repair trained. I have both purposely damaged and repaired aircraft skins, wire bundles and hydraulic lines in the late 80's through early 90's so hopefully I can cut through some of the romanticism vs reality. Thanks for posting this!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

The knife is full of visions of danger, adventure, and overcoming the odds. I think you summed up the allure of these knives quite well. Thanks for watching and your thoughts!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I’d love to see the romantic vision vs the reality. It will be interesting to see if the joke “something to keep you busy while the plane explodes” was just dark humor or a reality.

[@CommonCentsOutdoorsman]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias 👍

[@mangojack1]

I have (I think Ontario version) have to look to be sure. Great knife and history. Thanks as always Tobias 👍

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

It's a good one. I was very happy with my Ontario.

[@LeashMechanic]

I have an Ontario dated 5-94 on the pommel. It’s a fun knife to have along car camping and hunting (it’s a little too heavy to take backpacking though). Didn’t like the leather sheath even with the black reinforcement so I picked up an OD green nylon covered bayonet style sheath at a gun show that fits it perfectly. I also had the false upper edge sharpened by an old guy that used to walk the streets in my town with an ancient sharpening wagon (that rang out with the most wonderful sound!) It’s a cool knife! Glad you made this video on it! 👍

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

The swedge wasn't already sharpened? That's odd. But then those were early Ontario's so maybe that explains it. All of the Camillus ones I've encountered has a sharpened swedge or false edge. Glad you found the video useful. Thanks for dropping by. Appreciate your thoughts!

[@LeashMechanic]

That’s a good question! I sort of remember that edge being Parkerized with no secondary bevel and wondering if it was supposed to be sharp or a false edge. This was back in ‘99 lol. I tried to work on it but couldn’t ever really get it very sharp. It needed more than the red ‘course’ and white fine rods of my IdaHone sharpening kit and the small stone that the knife came with which was all I had at the time. But I didn’t mind as in all other respects it was a cool knife! (Except for the sheath lol which didn’t seem sturdy, all that weatherproof, didn’t really have adequate attachment options and being a pretty bright leather was too high visibility. I should mention that the reason I got it was not for a collection. Y2K was coming and the world was about to fall into chaos! When all the computers shut down and everything came to a halt there would no longer be law and order. Having no food masses of starving Chicago dwellers would swarm out into the suburbs, rioting and looting would be rampant! Lmao! My wife at that time and I got swept up in the fanaticism and we thought we needed bug out bags stuffed with survival gear to be at the ready in case we needed to hoof-it over land to hook up with family. We had routes and contingency plans. Both of us were back packers anyway. Hard to write this without laughing 😂 Anyway our gear needed to be low viz. We were at a gun show and she asked a vendor what would be a good survival knife and he brought out the Air Force Survival Knife. She was impressed. He had two and the better sheaths as well (we tossed the leather ones). She thought it would be cute if we each had matching survival knives and she made the purchase. 🗡️🗡️ Also, I didn’t have many knives back then to speak of. A plastic Ruko knockoff of a Spyderco (the Chinese one with the molded pocket clip and the eagle on the side), a trusty Buck 110 and an SAK (Tinker, I know but it was a gift). I also had a handful of fixed blades including a bayonet in great condition on my M-1 carbine. I was way more into guns than knives back then and for hunting or trail the Buck really took care of most every need. For car camping a couple fixed blades and my camp kitchen set were sufficient. But I did have a 17” cheap hand made in India machete that I could never get sharp at all with my tools and I’d just never gotten around to bringing it in. One day as I was doing yard work I heard a sound a couple blocks away that I hadn’t heard in nearly 40 years- the sound of that sharpening cart! I was a kid when I’d last heard those chimes and I couldn’t believe it! The sound was drawing away so I ran inside, grabbed the machete, the Air Force knife and the bayonet, jumped in the car, put the windows down and drove to find the cart which was about three blocks over. It was the same guy! He didn’t remember me, but I remembered him. He looked ancient and weathered. He was in fact laboring to push the cart. He’d been retired out this way for, had one day decided to fix up the old cart and walk it around! Anyway he sharpened up all three knives nicely! I’ll also never forget the side eye he gave me when I retrieved the machete from the car and handed it to him. Looking really leery he asked, “What are you going to do with this?” 🤣 And that was the last time I ever saw him. He said he didn’t think he was going to keep at it long because it was hard to push the heavy cart and nobody was coming out to get their knives sharpened. 🙂

[@joshuaritzheimer1382]

I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge. This history is fascinating!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it

[@jenniferbauman4802]

Great video. Great job. Keep up the great work. God bless. From Glenn CATT in Massachusetts.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Thanks!

[@elliotdryden7560]

The Ontario 499 that I have has "3-11" with "ONTARIO" on the flat of the butt end. It has a VERY sharp (for a factory military edge, at any rate) false-edge on it. That date stamp has appeared in several other videos I have seen covering that knife. Perhaps Ontario ran a large batch of them that month or something. Thanks for the back story on these! I knew General LeMay had some input on the SAC knife coming into being, but couldn't remember the details. That line cutter thingamajigabob is pretty neat on the newer model.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

The ASEK was definitely a step in the right direction. I believe much of the design came from 50 years of air crew observation and suggestions. What I interesting is they definitely learned enough not go with a longer blade.

[@tonyrome655]

That line cutter would be great to keep in a car as well for seat belts.

[@Cameron_OKG]

Great video ! These are my favorite videos of yours . the topics that bring out the excitement in you.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[@edwardjenkinson8948]

I realize what I'm about to say has little to do with the topic, but I would like to thank all of you for your service 🇺🇸

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I appreciate that but I always need to point out I served during the cold war and never saw a shot fired in anger. The people who truly deserve are support our the veterans who went through the hell of war and and physically and emotionally scared. 22 day is 22 too many.

[@edwardjenkinson8948]

Yes. And thank you , you were still ready to give it all if needed, And great history on the USAF!!!

[@jimmyj4811]

Very interesting and informative.

[@HeavyMetalHiking]

Very educational! Thanks for another great video!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it.

[@jerseyknifeguy6382]

Nice knifes Tobias stay well buddy

[@donscottvansandt4139]

I wonder if in some states it's illegal to carry a double edge knife. Maybe that's why they stopped sharpening the top edge?

[@WilliamsKnifeLife]

Watching it on rerun

[@WilliamsKnifeLife]

Great information on these knives Tobias. I enjoyed watching it on rerun.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

@@WilliamsKnifeLife , Glad you enjoyed it. The USAF knives are probably my favorite military fixed blades. They just sit there, quiet and unassuming.

[@blindowl-bushcraft-survival]

very interesting great video, take care

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@gizmocarr3093]

The ones I am familiar with were Camillus from off Base military surplus stores. The blades are extremely hard. Both the Marine model and the Pilot models were not very sharp. The time period was from 70 to 1978. I believe the non-sharpen edge was designed on purpose. Likely to have fewer pilots cut themselves. Sharpening is up to the one that was issued the knife. The same as boots and Brass came unpolished. If you were lucky to have someone teach you how to sharpen it, you were lucky. County Boys already knew how, most did I knew. If you buy a modern knife, it is likely to be sharpened by a machine. Hand grinding edges perfect is tough to make everyone perfect. Most of the knives like these never got used, and the few that did work as well as they were meant too. There is a big difference between the Air Force and Infantry. 😅🤣😂

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

There’s also a difference between PJs (Para Rescue) and the other Spec Ops folks. Para Rescue gets called when the others need help getting out of trouble. But, yeah, I know what you mean. I was Army Infantry and there was definitely a difference between airmen and soldiers. What’s more, there is a difference between everyday carry and “in the event of emergency” If you think these are dull and hard to sharpen. Try your hand at some older bayonets.

[@gizmocarr3093]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias Marines do not to sharpen Bayonets; it is against the Rules of the Geneva Convention. It would cause being charged with Article 15/Office Hours/Mast fines and punishments.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

@@gizmocarr3093 , hate to tell you this but there is nothing in the Geneva convention that says you cannot sharpen a bayonet. Nor are the restrictions against serrations or triangular shaped bayonets. You may have been told you’d get an article 15 and your NCO or commander may have even said that it was against the Geneva Convention but that’s pure bunk. There are numerous myths and misquotes concerning the Geneva Convention, and the various international treaties on the laws of war. Many of the myths center around bayonets, shotguns, and large caliber guns and their ammunition.

[@acid6urns]

@@gizmocarr3093sharpening a bayonet is not against the geneva convention. it’s a bayonet it’s meant to go through people the sharp edge doesn’t matter

[@jeroenvoss6231]

Very interesting video on the USAF emergency knives Tobias. What are your thoughts on the Pagnulo dagger, this dagger was used in WW 1 by Italian Special Forces the Arditi. Sadly enough is that all the information i can find on this knife, while being an elite Force that jumped into the trenches using nothing but that knife. Yeah Italian eh, they where quite succesfull actually but to little to late. They became operational in 1917. I would love to hear if you coulc dig up some more information on the knife. Thank you for this one.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

This is a new one for me. I will see what I can find out. Italy is almost a forgotten front in WWI. Their reason for joining the had more to do with disputed land along the Austria/Hungary Border and empty promises from Britain and France than anything else.

[@Ruger44Redhawk]

I wonder if the current iteration of the ASEK is "tougher" than the old 499? I can't find any destruction tests or x-ray (or removed) of the handle tang. I have seen plenty of people purposely breaking the 499 handle tang by stabbing it in wood and bending it both ways until it snaps. I believe Ontario differentially heat treated the 499 so it would bend in the handle tang. Just curious if the ASEK is actually stronger than the 499 and what the tang looks like.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

From what I read, both feature 1095 and both have the same heat treat. The only different is in the flat grind of the blade and a beefier handle. They may have given the knife a thicker tang but I really don't know. A person I know who went through SERE training commented that the ASEKs used in the training had been beat to death. The knives would be used until they virtually fell apart.

[@Ruger44Redhawk]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias good to know, thanks. I would still love to see a picture of the tang. Maybe someone will respond to my post on BladeForums with pics.

[@randallkelley3599]

I think the design was excellent, but the tang is way to thin. Almost a full tang would go a long way in helping the downed pilots as a tool. I managed to acquire a Randall Model 14 (I think it was), 71/2" blade micarta scales mostly full tang. Wish I still had it. Someone slap me, hard!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I’ve done some incredibly tough chores with many knives with a similar push tang with no issues whatsoever. I know full tangs are pushed as the best options but they also have drawbacks, one of which is they are better at transferring shock from knife blade to the hand. The push tangs on these knives are 1/2 X 1/8 x 5 inches. I have never had a tang fail on me I have actually chopped down a four inch tree down with a knife with a similar push tang. I’ve also chopped fire wood with a 8in kukuri with a rat tail tang.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Man to give up or lose that Randall had to hurt! My condolences!

[@kjgas6945]

👍👍🤠🤠🎯🎯