Knife Steel Comparisons - How Do Budget Steels Rate?

[@jimmiecrowe520]

I think that you did an incredible job of simplifying the original charts to easy-to-understand charts! Thank you for taking the time to share this information with us!

[@BladesOnABudget]

Thanks man. 😊

[@mikehedrick4349]

The Civivi praxis i got claims 14c and its been awesome. 2yrs edc and never needed sharpened. Great video. ✌🏻

[@BladesOnABudget]

Thanks for the tip! I actually just got a couple of Civivis for Christmas that will be taking a ride in the Redneck Cut Test Rodeo in a week or so. The Moyarl I just tested (14c28N) had a disappointing result. I've had the Praxis mini for a couple of years now & it has held up pretty well too! 👍

[@jamesseverin9472]

Awesome video Fred!

[@BladesOnABudget]

Thanks man! 👍

[@N2EWSRadio]

Great video! I'm a fan of 14C28N, VG10, AR-RPM9 and D2 for budget blades. But in practice, they're all good enough for me, even the 3CR13 knives. I have an OK-223 that claims to be S30V. I don't know if it is, but I reprofiled the edge to a beautiful 17.5 degree angle, and it slices like nobody's business. I'll find out if it's cheap steel if it goes dull on me after using it a while. I have an M390 version coming, but USPS is taking forever to deliver it. Toughness is not an issue for me because I don't do anything that would break a knife.

[@BladesOnABudget]

Same here. I just got the OK223 in M390. There are reddits that say they tested it to be real m390. Who knows about heat treat though. I’ve already had a few issues with it. Review coming soon. 👍

[@N2EWSRadio]

@@BladesOnABudget I'm looking forward to it! One of the pics on the OK site shows their M390 or S35VN steel at about HRC 61.4. It doesn't say which steel, and it wouldn't mean much to me, anyway.

[@bazzzker]

Actually 1-2 cardboard box if chopped like spaghetti could tell many about what level of steel(and heat treatment) is on the blade.

[@JodyDarden]

I have several knives in D2 and have no problems with it. My uses don't require high corrosion resistance and I think it sharpens well and holds it's edge.

[@jimmylarge1148]

At one point d2 was the best out there. People hating have no clue what they are even blithering abt.

[@BladesOnABudget]

😂👍

[@richardskeets6769]

Keep up the great work

[@BladesOnABudget]

Thanks man!

[@RuleNumber9EDC]

I have alot of 14C28N knives. As far as your question I think V10 is a good overall budget steel

[@BladesOnABudget]

Thanks man. Agree that VG10 is pretty good for the money. So is that 14c28n. 👍

[@marekburza7425]

Great video......Ive done all the same research and IMO your best budget steel dollar for dollar is a Cold Steel Aus10A. The best higher end steels (for me) if you are looking for well rounded-ness are cpm S35VN and Magnacut.

[@BladesOnABudget]

Thanks man. You're the first vote for the Aus10A. Interesting... 👍

[@Edcreviewer]

This is a well put together video but with one assumption that is of issue. Larrins testing only tells part of the story and is directly comparing the composition to one another but in a method that doesn't tell that much about daily use in a production knife. Cartra testing of steels that are all heat treated to a very specific spec and with blade geometry that is identical in a lot of cases leaves far different out comes when it comes to real world and that's been well discussed on the forums with larrins input. By larrins numbers something like 154cmshould give xhp a run for its money in edge retention but as with many testers have proved and I my self have tested with single medium cut tests xhp will cut significantly more. This has been shown many many times in sisal and card board cut testing. Cartra gives you an idea of a steels wear resistance that is only really accurate when cutting silica impregnated card stock but many times the numbers do not work out the way the list would have people believe. This is well discussed in the forums where larrins has chimed in many times. All his coupons of steel are running small batch custom heat treatments that we never will see the quality of in production knives so that's a big part of it as well as the way Cartra testing breaks down an edge is not something that we see in typical cutting tasks so the edge retention numbers do not translate over to the real world all that well. While larrins is a genius and his write ups are amazing his edge retention testing doesn't really show the even close to the complete picture for Edc knives. The ratings for stainless factor and toughness carry right over to the production world but edge retention ratings do not because of the test method don't allow it to. Normal use doesn't dull a knife in the same way Cartra testing does specifically because of the way the card stock is designed to a messure wear resistance. With his heat treating protocols, his coupon geometry the edge retention ratings are only accurate at directly comparing the composition when cutting that single media that is abraiding the steel only as that card stock does. This is not me trying to act like I know more than larrin, I absolutely do not but what I do know is use and testing as well as knife making here and there.. In my testing his edge retention ratings are on point in some cases and not even close in others. These is plenty of discussion about this with larrin chiming in on the forums.

[@BladesOnABudget]

Thanks for the very well-considered feedback. I’d say that you obviously know your stuff there. And yes, I would agree that what we see in the real world is likely different than what some of those tests and ratings indicate. Given your experience, what do you think are some of the better budget steels?

[@jamesseverin9472]

Would you ever consider doing budget steel testing clips?

[@BladesOnABudget]

Yep. Great suggestion! Just recorded the first couple of cut tests this week. Will be out next week sometime. Still testing “baseline” knives (good brands with known quality steel) so we have something to compare the unknown steel to.

[@IrishSouthPaw]

nice charts!

[@BladesOnABudget]

thanks man! 👍

[@ct2368]

I think toughness plays more of a role in edge retention than some might think. Blades have very small bevels when it comes to the point, and when they come into contact with hard objects while cutting, it is more likely to chip or bend the steel, causing edge damage. With the type of materials I cut at work, s90v has worse edge retention than magnacut or m4 because it of the toughness in the blade. I have many knives in all sorts of steels, and all the blades with tougher steels perform better for me. I am cutting cardboard that has wood, glue, fiberglass, and very rigid cardboard supports in it, and that has been my experience.

[@BladesOnABudget]

Good point. The material you’re cutting regularly will certainly affect which type of steel is the right one for you & how long the edge will last. Thanks for sharing. 👍

[@jimmylarge1148]

Larrin did chemical breakdowns of all the steels if any tests are wrong it’s the factories.

[@MikeyD8716]

I love AR-RPM9 because it’s so easy to sharpen and remove the burr. However there is no way it’s edge retention is a 5.5 compared to the other steels. RPM9 should be close to 9CR but with better toughness not edge retention.

[@MikeyD8716]

Yeah it looks like you made a mistake on the rpm9. The chart says 4.5 edge retention but the graph says 5.5.

[@BladesOnABudget]

Yeah, sorry. You’re right. I went back to look at my charts & realized that the Ar-RPM9 chart pulled in the wrong data. Totally screwed that one up! I’ll try to do an update to correct that. 😂🤷‍♂️

[@merrickx]

Maxamet isn't tough that's what makes it so good

[@WAFFENAMT1]

D2 is probably the best your gonna get in most of the budget knives coming out of China...

[@kevinsanter2800]

It's so easy to get sucked into the "steel snob" abyss, but I'd be willing to bet good money that 90% of us will never need a high dollar super steel for our day to day uses. That being said, I'm guilty lol. Honestly, at the end of the day those super steels translate to way harder to sharpen when that time comes. My s30v, 14c, vg10, nitro v, s35/45vn works great and can be easily brought back to life with a basic stone/strop..

[@BladesOnABudget]

True that! 👍

[@wayneanderson991]

In the real world if we are talking pocket knives and using them like pocket knives then the steel is not all that important. It becomes more of a personal preference unless the knife is used in extreme conditions where corrosion, edge retention or toughness is required. Then there is merit in the steel choice for a particular task. IMHO for general use it does not matter. When the knife is dull I sharpen it! The only steel in your list I will not buy anymore is S30v. I have nothing but chipping issues with it from both Spyderco and Benchmade.

[@BladesOnABudget]

Interesting. Haven’t heard that about S30V before. Surprising especially from those brands that are expected to be top notch heat treats. I’ll grab one for the cut testing that I’m starting up. 👍

[@bazzzker]

That is why they've made s35 and 45. Also machinability.

[@wayneanderson991]

@@bazzzker Yup! and that's why I don't do S30v anymore! There is a reason for the change.

[@anthonyrollins9825]

your numbers for ar-rpm9 are skewed ... it will have the same edge retention and more toughness , you gain no edge retention from improving the type of steel i.e. ingot , spray form and powder. those arbitrary numbers are a rating numbers , what I mean is for example 420Hc has toughness of 9 as does a 14c28n but if you look deeper that toughness rating covers a span of measured numbers and 14c is at the low end of a 9 rating while 420hc is at the high end of the 9 rating so when you are talking the fine points of knife steel you have to go deeper when making broad sweeping claims about the steels. To make that easier to understand lets convert a rating to a percentage 14c28n vs 440C 3 vs 4.5 in edge retention 440C has a 50% increase in edge retention that is noticeable in the real world. 14c28n is overpriced in the current market place stay away from it for anything over $45 in standard form full titanium type of knife $100 or less.

[@BladesOnABudget]

Yeah, you're right. Same edge retention & more toughness. I got those backwards. Good catch! Interesting that you don't like 14c as Larrin did an article where he specifically says that he thinks 14c is the best budget steel. It's definitely good for toughness & corrosion. But I do agree that the "old" steels like 440C & D2 just don't get enough credit for good basic EDC knives these days. Thanks!

[@anthonyrollins9825]

@@BladesOnABudget its not that I dont like 14c I dont like it at the current market price point and as a side note Dr.Larrin made that comment a few years ago when it was still at budget steel prices ......... these days well known makers are throwing 14c on a basic sandwiche build knife with g10 handles and wanting to charge $85 because every utuber out there is pushing it .I dont like it on a folding knife unless the knife is intentionally built for hard use , I do like it on hard use implements like machetes , camp knives and the such because that is what the steel is best at. One awesome aspect 14c28n is it is super easy to sharpen on the flip side of that if you can remove metal ( sharpening ) easily so can what your cutting.