UNMIXABLE ATTRIBUTES!! The Seven Deadly Sins of TCG Designs Part 3

[@aggronmaster1]

"Even Yugioh with its hard baked archetypes can generate excitement with their sets as there's always a chance that it might contain some new cards that help these old archetypes out." Konami: "Here's Magicians' Souls, a new Dark Magician support card to help Dark Magician decks specifically. We even made it's conditions really specific to support Dark Magician only." Players: "Oh boy, a new Spyral card! Now we can be Tier 1 again!"

[@thelenneh409]

Eldlich players: ha ha end phase go BRRR

[@frankwest5388]

@A guy with an anime Profile Pic Because I can it’s the “check the META” argument I hear so often from people who don’t understand why cards like MaxxC should stay banned. Sure it stops META. But also 90% of everything else. So it’s just no fun

[@frankwest5388]

A guy with an anime Profile Pic Because I can this is Konami’s fault. They should do more slaughter lists and stop trying to push product with generic boss cards. But even in a format without the modern power level MaxxC is an unhealthy card. Even low power output decks like Salamangreats (seriously am icarus attack+ 1 negate is not super powerful and that is a good board) needs to summon 2 or 3 times. Combined with MaxxC’s ability to be chained to the summon, it will never be a -1. Unless you know the matchup and know you can comfortably shotgun it, but then you already would the game anyways.

[@cephalosjr.1835]

Never mind Magician’s Souls, what about Crystron Halqifibrax? That card single-handedly made Crystron a playable deck. It does basically everything Crystrons needed to be able to do to have plays on turn 1, and it has the archetypal name so it can be brought back with Impact. It also enabled literally every deck with Tuners of 2 or more different names and then got banned for catapulting multiple bullshit Synchro decks to the top of tier 1.

[@VestedUTuber]

@@frankwest5388 Maxx "C" is a necessary evil in OCG and Master Duel. Not everyone wants to sit around waiting for their opponent to complete an extremely long turn, only to basically have to ask to go to game 2 because they didn't "draw the out" to their opponent's board in their starting hand. I'm becoming convinced that Yu-Gi-Oh TCG players are sadomasochists. It's not that Maxx "C" should remain banned in TCG, it's that it shouldn't have had to exist in the first place. But Konami pushed their game to the point that something like that had to be released just to keep things even remotely in check... then banned it _only_ in the one scene where they could get away with continuing to cash cow their game due to a lack of competition, and continued to push things even further. Now there are decks that completely get around Maxx "C". Many decks, like Eldlitch, either build boards in ways that only require a few special summons, or play only part of their turn on their turn and the rest in the opponent's standby phase. Floos outright give the swarm of roaches the middle finger by not special summoning at all, instead treating their normal summons like special summons with every single Floo monster granting an additional normal summon after its effect resolves (plus, Floos also basically take a full extra turn on the opponent's turn).

[@Cimoooooooo]

As a Yu-Gi-Oh! player, I would argue that archetypes are considered a primary attribute. A majority of new Yu-Gi-Oh! cards are incredibly xenophobic, and heavily restrict the player into a very limited pool of cards to choose from when deck building. As a result, most of these archetypes are dead on arrival because either A. the archetype's mechanics are not strong enough to build a standalone deck, B. the archetype is weighed down with unnecessary summoning restrictions to force you into only summoning monsters with certain types, attributes, or cards that share the same archetype, or C. both. I get messages all the time of people asking me how they can build a (good) deck that successfully combines their two favorite archetypes, but unfortunately, Yu-Gi-Oh! just doesn't always work that way. Of course there are exceptions to the rule; Yu-Gi-Oh! periodically receives plenty of generic/semi-generic archetypes, and people more often than not connect the dots and figure out how to combine the best of two separate strategies. But compared to a game like MTG where you can have numerous archetypes and sub-archetypes within certain color combinations (Blue/Black Control, Blue/Black Mill etc.), there is a lot less room for innovation, because the game practically dictates how it wants you to play. Another exception to this would be the inclusion of "generic" standalone cards/engines/combos (think 1 card Halqifibrax combos, Brilliant Fusion package, etc), but even then, the planets have to perfectly align, and you're still going to be (in most instances) using those cards to complement a given archetype.

[@friendzoneband5197]

I love that Cimooo comments on this series. Yugioh uses Archetypes very well IMHO but the problem is that it has too many Archetypes!

[@kiraangle2823]

To be fair. Archetypes restrict monsters more than anything, spells and traps are always that flexable supply of utility and power. But yeah the yeah of dead on arrival decks needs to end.

[@goncaloferreira6429]

@@kiraangle2823 "dead on arrival decks needs to end" you mean dead archtypes,right? they are just bad design.

[@goncaloferreira6429]

1-"heavily restrict the player into a very limited pool of cards to choose from when deck building" so the game ends with less variety because cards are design with archtypes in mind. A very limiting factor. 2- "As a result, most of these archetypes are dead on arrival because either A. the archetype's mechanics are not strong enough to build a standalone deck, B. the archetype is weighed down with unnecessary summoning restrictions to force you into only summoning monsters with certain types, attributes, or cards that share the same archetype, or C. both. I get messages all the time of people asking me how they can build a (good) deck that successfully combines their two favorite archetypes, but unfortunately, Yu-Gi-Oh! just doesn't always work that way. " the problems of yugioh design summarized in one paragraph. 3- "Another exception to this would be the inclusion of "generic" standalone cards/engines/combos" a very dangerous way to try to correct the base problems the game has.

[@blackbot7113]

Is this recent or just a high-level thing? I remember playing the GBA games and I mixed and matched everything happily back then.

[@ajbrown1708]

“Exciting new staples!” Shows firewall dragon *please no*

[@swordflay7384]

HAHAA

[@HowToNotMeta]

KILL IT WITH FIRE AND BUILD A WALL TO KEEP IT FROM MY EYESSSSS

[@luckysevens6852]

"Firewall Dragon isn't that bad" Said no Yugioh player ever.

[@Glorious_Mane]

Same thing with Solemn Judgement, "For a cost you can always pay, stop almost anything."

[@ultrawinggaming9764]

Why couldn't they just Errata it to be a hard once per turn? It would have at least had the anime writers not write firewall out of the anime

[@Wslasher]

Vanguard content creator here & my god this is a very good analysis of Vanguard, please keep churning this out.

[@werewolfjedi38]

yeah but he has an obvious hate boner for the game. he isn't giving it a fair shot.

[@Ghorda9]

@@werewolfjedi38 it's his point of view as a store owner.

[@leonmercury3732]

@@werewolfjedi38 r/whoosh

[@werewolfjedi38]

@@leonmercury3732 I don't agree

[@leonmercury3732]

@@werewolfjedi38 shoot, wrong comment.

[@Artster900]

I find something about Vanguard really interesting. It seems that in the west, not many shops carry it and it is far less popular. Yet here, in Southeast Asia (Singapore to be specific), almost every card store I go to carries it, with singles and a very active community of players. Maybe Bushi just focuses more on this area of the world, but who knows.

[@christopherbennett5858]

I can see some favouritism to home with Bushi. Cards are usually cheaper with higher supplies. Bushiroad is also infamous for creating video games that could have boosted popularity (especially with their games' prices) but went with pproviders that feared the term "localisation." Buddyfight is another example of this where the last year of tournaments is only attributed to Japan.

[@The_KAZ3]

Can confirm its the same for Malaysia too.

[@michaelwheat4594]

VG has a decent american fan base. Weiss Schwarz on the other hand is smaller

[@exeledusprince9165]

I wish I could find then easier here in America...

[@x8a3vier]

Part of the difference also has to deal with geographically as well. here in the United States a lot of locations are very focused on requiring a car to get places. A lot of cities do have public transportation but not nearly to the level as other countries like The European Union and Japan, where if you use a combination of things you can get anywhere. Not so much here in the States. The card shop that I frequent has become kind of the Nexus point for Bushiroad games because of its placement. Other shops will host tournaments but not so much carry the product outside of very specific sets that the locals really want.

[@dufort]

I play a number of card games at a number of LGSes, including Vanguard, so I can confirm, Vanguard players do just congregate into a single store. Nearly every store in the area started carrying it, but one-by-one stores started to cut it, as you stated. However, players from each store started filtering down until we now have one store (that's a bit too far from me, personally) that attracts basically every player in the county. Since each player now goes to the one store, there are players dedicated to pretty much every clan, so the store doesn't have to worry about too much back product. Although, this has killed other games at that store. Since so much of their playerbase is dedicated to Vanguard, they really only host casual events for their other games.

[@masonwhite3698]

The irony of a card game with rules that force player specialization, that also forces stores to specialize. (Not dissing Vanguard--just find it amusing).

[@starduststriker8792]

The Vanguard Store

[@fun2building]

That's a whole ass ecological event

[@bepisthescienceman4202]

Invasive species

[@summermermaidstar756]

Cow tokens? IS THAT A PROZD REFERENCE?!

[@haosmagnaingram6992]

I play cool cow cause when you play him you get to place a cool sunglasses token on your cards. This lets me do tap the card 3 more time to perform a tap summersault allowing me to make that card active again as place another cheese token on the field. Just wait till I get to cheese tasting phase...

[@dieface12]

@@haosmagnaingram6992 It's the Black Brie (banned card) that lets you perform the tap somersault. Cool Sunglass Tokens just make your cards look funny.

[@haosmagnaingram6992]

Christopher Fensom In the soon to release Unrivaled Cow set there are leaks of some Cool Cow archetype support the new cards Udder Mayhem and The Cooler cow allow for some crazy tap summersault plays. This set looks hype.

[@phoenixgemini42]

I AM NOW MOOING INFINITE

[@Speculector]

Lol i thought the same thing.

[@pipolwes000]

"Hearthstone has a robust set of universal cards" Shows Piloted Shredder _flashbacks intensify_

[@adamxue6096]

I have won with a 35 legendary decks against... equally bad decks. With unusable legendaries due to uhm, my limited collection and big brain crafting. In HS, RNG can take the wheel so horribly that you can win with bad Decks. If a deck with almost zero synergy (if you are curious no I didn't have Reno, the only cards that would have made it good...) can do it then yeah, it is nice.

[@markchang2964]

Good times!

[@SolemnVanguard]

As an avid and competitive Vanguard player, I agree with most points in the video. However, we're so deep into the system already, Extreme Fight (the format where you can mix all clans) is a ridiculous game. One idea I've often considered is turning the game Nation-based. We saw this at the end of G, where certain cards could be used by all clans within a nation. However, I'm sure there's plenty of issues with that as well, so the game would need some aggressive banlist/restricted list restructuring and it'd likely also throw off a lot of people. Many people love clan X whilst hating clan Y. Try telling a Granblue zombie-loving fan that the best version of their deck will now start playing some big-tiddy bermuda triangle mermaids in order to stay competitive. Good luck. Not really sure how VG should go about fixing this issue. At least Premium Collection supports all clans at once.

[@theodoricwijaya7283]

go get em solemn

[@idonotmakevidsyet]

This guy claims vanguard is not selling from anecdotal evidence. Little did he know how fast nextage sold out.

[@nouvelle147]

"Granblue zombie-lover" Nightrose says hello

[@SatoshiMaiko]

I thought Nightrose was a big titty pirate vampire with shenanigans and riviere is a mild chested beauty that has MANY BS combos

[@christophermatthew7635]

Plus premium is a thing

[@jakob1809]

7:37 funfact for those who dont know: Firewall Dragon was the protagonists bossmonster, but was so degenerately overpowered, that the community spammed official konami twitter accounts and youtube comment sections to ban the card for months untill it got finally banned after a year its one of the most hated combo enablers of all time

[@TheForeverRanger]

A simple errata to where it has a hard once per turn would have made Firewall a great card but nowhere near as busted.

[@marmal612]

@@TheForeverRanger yugioh players dont like erratas and doing an errata to a modern card is unthinkable.

[@JunoSamsara]

@@marmal612 - Dragun of red eyes desagree

[@Mukawakadoodoo]

I actually tried to read that card text and I couldn’t comprehend. It’s been a LOOONG time since I’ve looked at ygo, and all I understand is that it bounces shit back and allows you to pay monsters for free

[@Ms666slayer]

@@Mukawakadoodoo That's the proble, the effecto of summoning a mosnter it's not once per turn, so you could use it everytime the condition was fullfilled, so you gat degenerates combos that allow you to win on your first turn, that card literally got a ton of cards banned or limited.

[@tonyhakston536]

Jeez, you’d think Cardfight Vanguard killed his parents or something.

[@brittanynguyen3794]

Eh, I hate yugioh because it’s hard for me to get into it, so I wouldn’t be surprised if his grudge is because of this.

[@aussakagamine8862]

I mean he touched on the fact the game rebooted but the reboot makes it easier to get into since every deck is extremely cheap if ur not going for high rarity versions. Like back then VG decks where hundreds and hundreds of dollars and now decks barely reach $100-120 at base and for each deck.

[@kahchunrock5582]

Well he did make a video saying he hate VG at past. But somehow he delete it. The reason hate VG because he have a bad experience when he make fun of the anime about "is that the card for new booster set?" and hurt a VG fan. Quite sad.

[@aussakagamine8862]

If that's the reason he hates it that's sad on alot of reason

[@Arkonu]

On the plus side, the reboot allowed toxicity that once took years to evolve in the span of a couple months. They didn't learn a goddamned thing. :)

[@jish55]

The reason for Vanguard's growing popularity has to do with the youtube anime that was essentially made as a way to sell the game and has been going on for years. It's much like how the yugioh tcg is only so successful because of the anime which got many into the card game.

[@Pepper_Pip]

"My nemesis." Raid shadow Legend ads precedes to play.

[@stephencrawley2862]

Vanguard's clan system is actually the entire reason I switched to it from Yu-gi-oh, and my #1 favorite thing about the game. It made collecting, deckbuilding, and buying much more manageable, and ensured that players could maintain their identity as an XXX-deck player year after year.

[@summermermaidstar756]

The reason your counting 27 is because you are counting Entranger (A promo exclusive unplayable clan) The Mask collection (A thai exclusive clan) And Union Verse (Legit only the manga has this) (Also where on the list is the new clan BanG Dream?) they dont count to the players, as none of them are playable in Japanese or english vanguard.

[@genocidegames8423]

that still leaves 24 (25 including bang dream)

[@summermermaidstar756]

@@genocidegames8423 26 if touken ranbu wasnt counted.

[@AmberMetallicScorpion]

@@summermermaidstar756 ok but just like Cray elemental they don't belong to any nation. The only other 2 clans that don't belong to any nation are non tournament legal. When we say 24 clans, we mean all 24 clans included in set rotation (in other words, the 24 clans you see that have their own symbols)

[@stephannieman9516]

I think the new Cardfight Vanguard CEO watched this because the new standard we are now able to mix, because they simplified it to 5 nations, which you can combine into, and also every single set now coming out every 2 months not every month, will be able to give all 5 nations support

[@DrGamer365]

What's hilarious is that there was exactly 1 regional series before Clan FIght was introduced. Before Clan Fight you could take every 8k and 10k vanilla and mash them into a deck with 16 critical triggers, and win on like turn 3. God Bless Vanilla Rush

[@zehern22]

Now featuring Premium Collection 2020! At least Zazan is (mostly) controlled.

[@yeurple]

Kohdok: *talks about staples for 5 seconds Any competitive yugioh player currently: *cries in crystron halqifabrax

[@number18_guppy]

As a Vanguard player, this video has aged like milk. Bushiroad recognized this problem and solved it by reducing the clans down to nations and having every set support those 5-6 nations, so every set will have more reason for every player to buy it

[@sovest555]

From another bushiroad product, Weiss Schwarz, they actually handled unmixable attributes somewhat well. There were the primary attributes of the four colors of cards, each representing a different design style (Red, Blue, Green, and Yellow), and could be mixed freely. However, what really dictated the restrictions were the secondary attributes (Class and Series). Since the premise was that your deck represented a specific anime series and/or characters, each series had its own dedicated set, with the characters and crucial scenes divided amongst the four colors and with class attributes (which were less of a restriction and more there to allow for more uniform synergies within the set.) Really, the only restriction in competitive play was that your deck had to be all from a series, which would have 1-3 sets (with the occasional extra mini-set from time to time), and there was never really any rotation persay, instead having restricted and banned cards ala YGO. That said, it was a bit more complicated than Vanguard in certain respects, and its dependency on the popularities of series may in fact fall slightly into sin #5. Not to mention a good chunk of the series were either japan-only or took time to reach other regions. While a few LGS's carried stuff for a while, the demand and support has dwindled from what I can tell. Too bad, since it was a fun game. : P

[@Arkonu]

Something Cardfight does that got me out of the game is how one or two clans were heavily favored, especially if the main character played said clan. That clan or archetype gets sufficient and ample support every single set to the exclusion and detriment of others. It's like if MTG favored one of the 5 colors and the other four only got support "whenever". My favorite clans in Vanguard were completely unviable because of the oversaturated support of other clans and how broken their support was. Over saturation is a deadly sin I personally cannot forgive in a lot of card games. I'm glad you pointed it out. So many people ignore hoe toxic it all is.

[@MorbidAri]

MTG does favor one of the colors: Green. Just go look how pushed Green is compared to White. White is basically garbage now. White gets no real support, is pushed into a boring and unfun archetype, and isn't viable in competitive formats. When you have 5 colors, and one is so bad that it isn't even played competitively in the premier format (standard in this case) you have serious problems. To top that off, it's been like that for a few years now. While I do agree on your points with Vanguard, using MTG as an example was a bad one. MTG's support of White is a prime example that with even such a small pool of colors, 5 in this case, you can still fall into the trap of basically only giving support to one color: Green, and ignore one color to the point that it isn't viable in competitive: White.

[@tobias32123]

I mean, netrunner has unmixable attributes and it does it really well. However, that might be due to the fact that they have non-random boxes that people can buy for all of their cards.

[@JanHoppmann]

Netrunner did a lot of things really well. Best game ever.

[@alexterzaghi7256]

I'm actually watching to see how many of these Android Netrunner breaks, since it also has lifedecking and requires things other then cards and dice

[@chaosof99]

@@alexterzaghi7256 Netrunner has lifedecking but it almost never comes up and while the runner can induce it, it is normally a better idea to then run the bin to win on Agenda points anyhow. Credits can also be easily tracked with dice or pen & paper, as can tags and bad pub. The thing though that originally annoyed me with the game was that certain important game info was formatted as reminder text instead of regular rules text (e.g. whether you had to pay the cost when another card enabled you to play a card, which varied). Thankfully NISEI is doing better in formatting such rules text.

[@alexterzaghi7256]

@@chaosof99 I meant lifedecking as in the corperation attacking the runner

[@chaosof99]

@@alexterzaghi7256 Eh, that isn't an outright win condition, as the runner doesn't lose for drawing a card. Also the, corp can't exactly interact with the Runner in most cases unless the runner met certain conditions (performed a run, took a tag and didn't clear, etc.). While grinder decks are an issue and certain cards that fit that archetype are too powerful/annoying (e.g. Kakugo), I don't think that exactly fits the definition of lifedecking.

[@empressivemagic]

My favourite example of "multiple attributes interacting with each other" has to come from WIXOSS. It has a primary attribute of Color and a secondary attribute of Class, with Class being actually two different categories: a general Type of Spirit, and a more specific... race? (I don't know the real word for it.) But for example, a SIGNI (monster) Class can be "Image Spirit: Angel" or "Nature Spirit: Space". The first part is the Spirit type, the second is its more specific classification, which I'll just call race. The Spirit types are present in every color, and generally the specific race of the card is usually dependent on what combination of colour and Spirit type it is. For example, Angel is a White Image Spirit SIGNI, and Space is a White Nature Spirit SIGNI. A Red Image Spirit would be Valor, a Blue Nature Spirit would be Atom, etc. (There are some deviations from this; for example, there's more than a few Black Angels.) This may seem like a lot of classifications but it allows for a LOT of freedom in card design. Cards can search or interact with the colors of cards, with their specific race, or even with the Spirit types to let you cross Colors (though this is extremely rare). Most cards that specify race also don't specify color, so even the SIGNI with unusual color/class combos (like the aforementioned Black Angels) or more recent multi-Class SIGNI can benefit from this. And it avoids the problem of certain cards being way too powerful when used together, by giving some cards a fourth "attribute" of sorts called a Limiting Condition. Cards with a Limiting Condition can only be played on the field with a specific LRIG (basically the main character your deck centers around), to keep them confined to their specific deck and theme. And some LRIGs come in different colours, so it doesn't always keep them tied to a specific colour. There's also no rule keeping you from PUTTING any card in your deck either; the Limiting Condition only prevents playing it on the field, but it can still use non-field non-play effects, like when it's milled, or triggers from a Life Burst upon taking damage. I don't know many applications of this myself but it does show that even cards with strict limitations can still be experimented with to some degree. And because of this I'd say WIXOSS has the best balance of incredible deckbuilding freedom with a structure that keeps things from being too broken. It even went almost all of 2019 without a banlist update, and if that doesn't speak volumes about how well-balanced this game's systems are then I dunno what will.

[@StigmaKRL]

also they don't vomit new sets as frequently as other tcgs do which is always a plus

[@Mystic-Aidan]

I’m very glad I found this channel. This series is great!

[@aaronmisra735]

Clearly you don’t see this channel’s biases towards vanguard

[@aaronmisra735]

But to each their own way

[@TechHug]

Eh... No. He's far too biased to take seriously. This series is basically "every card game should be like my favorite one or it's bad."

[@irrespondible]

@@TechHug His fav game is Magic, yet the first thing he criticized was Set Rotation. Second one was Lifedecking which truly sucks (I also hate all those mill decks). Exclusive Attributes is an issue, even if Vanguard survives them (and yes, it is a problem with Vanguard given what it led to).

[@aaronmisra735]

@Haohshin have you ever played the game?

[@laikahusky6358]

"Imagine if magic the gathering released a set that only contained blue and white cards!" WOTC: Great idea! * Releases Commander Collection: Green*

[@myanrueller91]

WOTC the past two years, TBH.

[@BlazingSerenade]

I don't think that's a fair comparison - a fair comparison would be if a standard set only had white/blue

[@3kojimbles895]

They had a basically all black set back in oddessy block I think

[@azzayo8488]

from what arena ladder has shown me the entirety of current standard contains only blue and green cards

[@laszlokaszas1003]

Yea focusing on 1 color sound crazy, eh.. he..hehe .....Torment

[@501clonetrooper]

Unfortunately the only reason Vanguard and Weiss players defend Bushiroad's design is that the company generally barely reprints causing the market to be stable. Just look at the common and uncommon cards in Vanguard and Weiss. They don't SELL AT ALL Since the set is designed to be its own ecosystem, the common and uncommon cards are designed to be purposely be bad, so players rely on the higher rarity cards. Compared to yugioh where they can use these common slots to import cards, or gradually add a card to the archetype to boost its playability. This makes Vanguard and Weiss unplayable for those budget players who want rogue decks but cannot buy 4 copies of VRs, RRs, Rs. Now other players might defend Bushi's choices but look how many LGS support Yugioh and can regularly sell card compared to Vanguard and Weiss. Having 12 sets a year is too much for players with a game with almost no reprints. Compared to Yugioh that balances reprints and have only 4 core sets.

[@bryanmerel]

At this point, i just assume vanguard boosters and cards are pre laced with Copium, as it seems many Vanguard players are always High on it.

[@ravdeepbagri1313]

I have bad news about the price of yugioh cards in the year 2022.

[@bryanmerel]

@@ravdeepbagri1313 at least Yu-gi-oh cards don't expire

[@thatnerdyouseeeverywhere7536]

I’m 2 years late to this but I love finding this reply thread. “VG players are coping”, immediately followed by coping from a very basic observation about the state of YGO. Also from 2024 when YGO is even more stupidly expensive than it was in 2022, this is all incredibly funny.

[@Genesi590]

One of the reasons I stick to Vanguard is actually this very clan system. People who get into the game have lots of fun trying out clans and find out what suits them. I can (almost) be certain that the clan I pick retains its theme and general play style, which I love. I keep up with multiple clans, and this is not unusual, which means the chances that I'll want to buy new product increases. I'm also certain that my clan will keep getting cards, how long that may take, but at least once a year. When an archetype is outcrept in Yugioh, you can never be sure when it will get some new cards, if those even help. Because Bushiroad brought upon themselves the task to balance 24 clans as well as possible, because that will positively influence sales, they have found a sweet spot to do so now. In the early days, "era's" were defined by a new game mechanic, like Yugioh's synchro, pendulum etc., but the clans who got that mechanic first were vastly more powerful than the ones who had to wait for their versions. Nowadays, we get new mechanics overall, like imaginary gifts and the quick shield, which are immediately applicable to all clans and changes up the meta even. Within standard, not counting a couple of outliers of course, it's very possible to stand a good chance with an 'older' clan, such is the balance. The sales are retained in the West at least because: 1) People buy entire booster cases within their community. There are always people to gather to cover all clans, and splitting the contents of this case up is easy. 2) Clan sets are easily packaged as a bundle for shops to sell. 3) People who play meta keep selling their old decks to buy new ones. This is however common in many other card games. Shops not carrying it is a huge problem though, and I can't help but agree with your point. Indeed, the community gathers at the few shops that do carry it, that's how it happens in NL anyway. Locally, it's nigh impossible to find new players. It is nice to have such an incredibly invested community, the best I've found myself in and I played roughly every card game ever. That's what keeps it afloat.

[@Ms666slayer]

We have a simir situation in my city in Mexic, it's the third biggest city in the country, but only 2 stores sell Vanguard so the whole community it's on those 2 stores, it helps that those 2 stores and in the same shopping mall that focuses on game stores so literally the costumers of those 2 stores overlap. and yes her players buy whole cases, i remember when there was this Bermuda Triangle only oriduct that had a card that looked like Miku, every single Bermuda Triangle player on the community bought like 4 cases to get the cards.

[@siliciaveerah9327]

Still even within the clans multiple different playstyles are available,

[@bryanmerel]

Btw, the game is getting rebooted for THE *SECOND TIME*

[@pokelogikx]

so 3 years later Vanguard cut down on the nations and Digimon became increasingly more archetypal. What a world!

[@nuttherbutter4075]

Since my friends and I got into Vanguard when they started the V-series, we've been more and more engaged in having a larger clan pool between us. We're also deep into premium format as well. Our circle has increased in size, and we've began splitting cases together. We have on average 3-5 clans each so most releases have relevancy to us. I definitely get you though, the release schedule is pretty vicious, especially right now. And it can also be difficult to have a favorite clan that isnt an anime starchild. (sad Tachikaze main here) But we all have enough fun and substidize the cost enough that it doesn't get overwhelming for us.

[@gobtherookie9046]

@Ian Meltzer He was the exodia of Vanguard

[@MadDragonify]

RIP my boy Angerblader but long live Gaia Emperor

[@nuttherbutter4075]

Would have been an easy errata to balance him out honestly. And the fact that he was out for so long and Tachi was still only topping every now and then is just annoying. I just hope they dont overcorrect with Gaia and punch down even further.

[@aprilmcfarlane601]

DreadfulBoredom Tachikaze’s mechanic currently is to make gauges under their rearguards. They then can retire gauges or rearguards as cost. However, we don’t know what Gaia will do in V-BT10, which will start being revealed next week.

[@nuttherbutter4075]

@@aprilmcfarlane601 It was said that Gaia "expand upon the equip gauge mechanic", so we'll see what that means soon enough

[@slyder5597]

5:19 sorry if this is a duplicate post, checked the existing comments and didn't see this. There are 24 main clans, with 2 crossover clans that aren't on the chart (Touken Ranbu and Bang Dream). The 3 without logos aren't clans we count. Etranger are generally promo cards that are crossovers (Spideman from TASM series has a card here), The Mask collection is a weird Thai only set that messes with a lot of the rules, and Union Verse is a Spin-off Manga only clan that does not have any actual cards printed.

[@AztecCroc]

Why are any of them on the chart then?

[@slyder5597]

@@AztecCroc Because they are clans that exist within the franchise of Vanguard. They aren't counted in the 24 because they don't get regular support

[@andrelima4125]

@@slyder5597 thansk i was looking for this to write

[@Nocturne989]

@@AztecCroc The whole point of that wiki page is to be able to find pages for specific cards. The wiki includes card pages for all the cards, including all the promos.

[@an___ny8027]

Fun fact about hearthstone: next expansion will be their fourth attempt at mixing classes. First Attempt: Gadgetzan Second Attempt: Halloween Arena Third: Halloween Arena Fourth: Scholomancy, coming next month

[@IIxIxIv]

I think the dual class cards are a little better than triple class cards, but I'd love to see more of it.

[@warmike]

There is a digital CCG called Horus Heresy Legions, which I play. It did it this way: every expansion, 3 new factions are released, along with some neutral cards. You can use the cards of your legion and neutrals. Older factions don't receive new cards, only changes (buffs and nerfs) to their old cards, and new synergies with the new neutral cards. They also have separate packs for each expansion, and packs that cost twice more for a certain faction. That is for avoiding overpowered combinations, an example: heroes in this game are not just numbers of health, they are creatures with attack and abilities. Say, Lucius, a hero that can attack again after a kill, and has an active ability to increase his attack this turn multiple times, from the Emperor's Children, gets "Raven's Claws" card from the Raven Guard, that makes your hero not receive counterattacks from the enemies attacked. Isn't that OP? Yes! While there are ways to get cards from other factions, including the combination above, you have to be very lucky to assemble the overpowered combination.

[@andrelima4125]

Nubatama was a terrible example come on!!! Nubatama was discontinued in season 1 because it dealt with discard and it had to never get support until they figured out a way to balance it. Actually nubatama has always been vanguard's "problem child" because they need to keep changing its core mechanic not to be too oppressive

[@procrastinating6188]

Isn't that making it a perfect example? I mean those videos are talking about aspects of Cardgames that are causing them to fail so obviously you can't take a positive example...

[@wolfehlol774]

@@procrastinating6188 Vanguard overall has been largely successful even after the reboot.

[@stephencrawley2862]

@@procrastinating6188 What he means is, Nubatama is a bad example of a clan having large gaps in support due to the large number of clans, since the large number of clans was not the reason Nubatama had large gaps in support.

[@speg0402]

Two things. One is that for the Austin powers deck builder for tourneys you can have everyone make a good deck, and everyone make an evil deck. And two, I feel like netrunner does this very well, all the runners and corps mainly have to build in faction, but can choose a few choice cards from others to make bonker combos (criminals with Apoc, Weyland with NBN).

[@Alphine_Agnitio]

Funnily enough, VG used to be “you can mix clans togheter” but towards the end of the Asia Circuit arc of the anime decks started become “shove cards from 1 clan into another because why not” and it lead to some annoying shenanigans so they changed it.

[@Snowmon89]

They also had a rule that stated that the effects of cards couldn't be activated unless their vangard was of the same clan. I think that helped. There were also a few cards that specifically said, "cannot attack unless Vangaurd is same clan". Though I did stop playing Vanguard because I litterally could not build the decks that I wanted. I had to buy the premade decks and then try to modify them. That's all that I could do.

[@MrZer093]

They changed the rules as they realized that people were only using one clan for their entire deck anyways. You’ll get that when most of the cards demand you play other cards of the same clan, and especially when pretty much only the good ones did that. My guess is that they were paranoid about the issues listed in this video but then realized that people didn’t mind too much and they could save card space by removing clan restrictions.

[@Gojin91]

There were also clans with Card Pools so small they could not be made into a stand alone deck *Cough* Nubatama *Cough*

[@kimishi101]

But by that time most clans has enough cards to make a single decent deck (not counting nubatama) Also this system gives a particular play style for every single clan (not counting genesis cuz they do whatever the f*ck the want)

[@おつき-d7c]

If anyone remember Legion Era, that era was wild with the clan mixing. Genesis-shadow witches, Royal-shadow thing-abyss, Cat Butlers, and obviously Frozen Ogre in EVERY deck because the tutor is so goddamn good.

[@robinb1416]

This guy seems to have some bone to pick with Vanguard lol, and while I can see where he is coming from, the part about where "A huge part of the player base does not care about a set " is often moot. Yes because of the lack of mixing, You have to wait for a specific arc type, but in return you will find Vanguard players often hold on to multiple clans, giving them more variety of gameplay. In vanguard, it is much easier to build multiple decks because of the lack of crossover staples that reach ridiculous prices. In return for consistent updates, Vanguard players enjoy a more well-grounded core design around their favorite clans, not forcing them to update the same deck with each expansion released

[@OneWingedRose]

As someone who loves TCGs but has horrible social anxiety, I experience them almost entirely in digital form (so I've been waiting 10 years to play Vanguard with people lol) and now that there's a western accessible digital online game of it... I gotta say what you've written here is incredibly apt to my experience of the game so far too. . Went into the game thinking "I'm probably gonna rush Think Tank or Grappler" ended up not rushing any single type and instead slowly building better and better versions of every type available. . And I've found myself really getting into types I never would've considered before as a result (for example, I've never been a dragon or power deck kind of fan yet I am repeatedly excited each time I get more cards for my Kagero deck). . It's pretty neat.

[@squaglelabs5658]

I don’t know what you’re smoking, but that isn’t the case at all. Every deck in vanguard has to be updated once a new set is released because what they release is up to date with the current power level of the game. For instance, granblue was really bad when it first came out, but since it was only the second set it matched the power level of everything around it. Fast forward a year later when it got more support and aside from the triggers, the whole deck was power creeped to match the new leveling power. While you can play with the older cards, the continued rise in power makes upgrading each set a necessity. This necessity also raises the price of the better new cards to around the point of what staple cards in other games are. The lack of any crossover between decks also increases the barriers to entry for players because you can’t use copies of cards in more than 1 deck. Yugioh has hard archetypes but also has none of the problems that Vanguard does.

[@Xugoh]

@@OneWingedRose Sure in the mobile game that is the case because you can rather quickly get new cards even without putting money into the game but in the physical game you'll have a hard time putting together more than three decks with booster pulls alone unless you have people to do trades with, even if these are just budget decks only containing the cheaper more common cards since you might buy a complete booster box and end up not even getting a playset of a common card you need.

[@SilverGrowlithe]

Right I did a video on this guy not to long ago about his problem with vanguard

[@Ephraim225]

I was wondering about that. Not a Vanguard player but I'm in love with the artwork.

[@LichCrypt]

I actually know a store that's entirely dedicated to Vanguard, in a place where Yugioh Is the standard. Not only they've been open for years, they're actually growing.

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

nekocards in melbourne is the oz animart store therefore a company store to bushiroad.

[@StigmaKRL]

well good for you the only cardshop nearby my area closed because it relied only on vangarbage

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

@@StigmaKRL it died for other reasons but sure, blame vanguard.

[@LichCrypt]

I mean, to their credit: they're the only vanguard distributor in my area and only sell sealed product.

[@michaelkeha]

@@StigmaKRL *points to Japan where many stores their now top selling card game is vanguard, points to Cape Town where Vanguard has somehow become a staple in what is normally the market that new things cannot grow * um my dude

[@HunterSerge]

Blaster Dark and Dragoenergy are not cards being given exceptions *because* they're protagonist used cards. These are cases where a card was designed or an anime fight was aired and the rules were later changed in a way that would make those plays illegal or cards unusable. The exceptions were made to prevent that. Also, in the case of Dragoenergy specifically, the rule change was later completely reverted, so it no longer has an exception. 9:02 or that's just how it is in your local area? Why make this assumption that how it is in your area is how it is everywhere?

[@Kohdok]

The stores I talked to were EVERY GAME STORE IN MY STATE and even a few outside.

[@HunterSerge]

@@Kohdok are you in NY or am I misremembering? Because that state has a large thriving constantly expanding vanguard community. Regardless, in what world is your *state* not still just your area lmao

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

@@Kohdok vanguard zero is a gacha machine so its very equiped for absurd levels of product.

[@bryanmerel]

I don't know. Because here in the Philippines (wich is a whole Fuckin Country), Vanguard is a nich even compared to other card games. We can still buy Yu-Gi-Oh packs on malls, but Vanguard products? You need to go on a dedicated TCG shop just to buy cards.

[@bryanmerel]

And they don't even stock on the most recent releases on the regular. Boosters box are sold by order basis, meaning they wont buy that specific booster box unless someone order for it. And players tend to stop playing the game after a year as soon as they discover the second glaring problem of CFV. The mind bogglingly fast Powercreep.

[@jonathantillian6528]

The highly successful Star Wars CCG had "Light Side" and "Dark Side" decks. Tournaments went flawlessly: each player was required to have one deck of each. They used a slightly modified Swiss format so all players' decks were used.

[@pinoarias8601]

I miss that game so much, it was so unique

[@julezvernez4370]

I think a big problem for tcgs like lightseekers or warhammer champions is the fact, that there are 5 types/colors of cards, which you can not combine. So you need to buy a display to get the minimum size of cards in one color to build one deck. And then you have to be lucky, if you could match a Combo. That sucks because buying a booster isn't a great help, even if you pick a good card.

[@Zanji1234]

that's the reason i kinda like the way Magic (and Final Fantasy) went with the colours. I mean as a starter you can easily get the way different colours play (red is aggressive, black kills everything and discards (in Magic) // earth buffs your power, Ice likes to freeze and discard, Fire is aggressive with damage based kills) but you can totally mix (and it's actually for some themes in FF required) For YGO: well it now has their Theme Decks where Konami basically gives you the decklist with almost no room for own card choices (since even in theme some cards are WAY better than other ones). On the other hand... the type and element really didn't matter for quite a long time. Regarding Vanguard: it's growing? ok than only in US since it is quite dead here in Germany xD (just checkend and it seems only ONE store in Germany hosts Tournaments... and only ONE story in Switzerland and ONE store in Austria) en.cf-vanguard.com/event/battlelist/battle_2002s/europe But the biggest sin for a new TCG is... basically being a TCG. i mean the market is FULL with gamers already playing a game. Very few have the money to support a second game and very few will switch to another game completly if a new game comes up. So the margin is veeeery thin.

[@Yinyanyeow]

Then a thing to keep in mind: How much of the market is held by whom? That'll make it harder to get in.

[@TheGoodOne1998]

I disagree on what you said about YuGiOh as it is entirely possible to make a different deck based on Archetype, for example, with Adamancipator, their different way of making it, one version made us of another archetype GoGoGo, which got a top 32 LCS and just a basic Adamancipator got top 4 PPG, in fact, you can see with it one other meta deck Eldlich as in the same event the top two where different variants, one was a Syncron version while the other used the Invoked engine. While there have been tier zero deck, Spyral, Zoo, PePe most have been dealt with the ban list.

[@goncaloferreira6429]

"Konami basically gives you the decklist with almost no room for own card choices (since even in theme some cards are WAY better than other ones). On the other hand... the type and element really didn't matter for quite a long time." This

[@brooks5419]

My god this guy knows SO much about trading cards. Like there’s plenty of people who know a lot about a game or two but it seems like this dude knows everything about every trading card game ever. I’m in awe

[@reinhath7665]

Man, the quality of your videos is so good and I love your since of humor/knowledge base regarding card games. You deserve way more views!

[@yasahana4447]

I don't really have an issue with your arguments towards vanguard save 3 that I'll lay out here. 1.You count 27 clans because 3 of those clans are unplayable in tournaments and don't get support. 2.Clan fight was a ruleset that was added later in the games lifespan hence why there are really weird exceptions like Blaster dark and the reverse cards, not cause they are super anime cards. 3.The cray elemental clan is a clan that anyone can mix into their deck which is USUALLY not that great but some of them usually become staples

[@christhiancosta1844]

Zazan: may I introduce myself?

[@christhiancosta1844]

Funny that vanguard also has bangdream now :v

[@MomijiHVods]

@@christhiancosta1844 Well this aged poorly....

[@kankouya]

christhian costa no, you got put to 1

[@Gojin91]

Zazan is is like 1 of a few staples. Sebreeze and arguably Dizmel are the others and they're not main deck cards Cray Elementals are generally very Niche.

[@shan-mariehylton9119]

10:28 actually the premium format exists now with the reboot people can still use their old cards even with the new ones and the other 3 clans in star gate are meme clans or country exclusive or manga only ever used

[@bryanmerel]

Seriously, do anyone really play Premium format though? Without it being cassual?

[@nikolaidavidlitonjua8817]

>Commander

[@absol13]

@@bryanmerel As a matter of fact, yes. It still has official yearly championship series, same as the standard format. I enjoy it more than standard and am going to a premium shop tournament again this weekend.

[@StigmaKRL]

@@bryanmerel yep just play zazan

[@Swangmich]

@@StigmaKRL Pls #ZazanZero

[@darrenleckie7570]

New to your channel, but I'm loving your TCG Design videos. Just watched the first 3 parts, finding it gripping and interesting. As a child i used to create my own card games, i had a few but they mostly mixed elements of other games together. Now i'm trying to create my very own unique game. So far i haven't fallen into any of these holes yet, so it must be going well. My word document is about 10 pages long, i'm not deleating ideas yet, expanding on the concept to see what will work and what will work better. My recent work is only about 3 pages, trying to lay solid foundation plans and work out the intricacies and relationships of play. You've got some good points to consider. The Attributes are tricky to balance, but i think i've got something that will allow a complete card pool and synergies to build exciting combinations.

[@slayertakim1]

It is weird because Vanguard feels like the exception. Since I main clans like narukami, having to wait made me interested in other clans. Using the online simulator has given me access to checking out the mechanics of other clans and finding more decks that I want to build.

[@wavewingman5993]

There's an online simulator?

[@pabloleiva8568]

When you talked about having just good and evil decks, and having to face each other only, it reminded me inmediately of Android Netrunnner. That was an LCG, but it had that mechanic and forced players to have a Hacker and Corporation (the two factions of the game) deck, and you play best of 3, having to play at least one of the games with each faction. Just learned the rules and didn't played a lot but I thought it was a cool mechanic.

[@lampostsamurai2518]

There's also a lot of reasons this is tolerated with Netrunner. For one, Runners and corporation turns are very different and have very different objectives, so mixing just wouldn't work from the start, but also, Netrunner being an LCG helps mitigate the "two deck prepping" side of things, since you're not going to be fucked by pulling only netrunner cards in a booster.

[@Genesi590]

Also, Netrunner failed as a tcg before it was revamped as an lcg for this exact reason. I think the LOTR tcg from Decipher did this excellently. You played 30 good side and 30 bad side cards in one deck and alternated turns between the 2 sides.

[@bryanmerel]

The difference is, Netrunner requires you to havr both types of deck. So a Hacker will always has a Corporate Deck to fight and vise versa.

[@monkeylemur]

While I get the whole point that Vanguard's design is inherently bad for local stores but very good for the players (as experienced myself, their format somehow works because nobody just builds one clan), frankly this point won't stand the test of time. Why? Corona has already set the stage for it but a lot of TCGs are attempting to go full digital, and Vanguard Zero also blew up. It was bound to happen but local stores won't stand the test of time regardless of tcg designs

[@TacticianCinema]

More recently thankfully vanguard has integrated clans into bigger general categories to cutback on that exact issue you spoke of in this video. Ik I’m late to watching this video but I thought it was worth mentioning here as an update

[@Kuwaga-Strider]

There used to be clan mixing, in the beginning because there was not enough cards in specific clans to make a whole deck around said clan. Extreme fight does exist but nobody plays it since its a weird format. Edit: Seeker Thing Saver Dragon and Revenger Phantom Blaster "Abyss" put the clan fight rule into play. Reason being was cause it Revenger PBA fueled the skill of Thing Saver and allowed them to attack with their middle column (VG's important attack) 3 consecutive times while also filtering the deck

[@nuttherbutter4075]

Also a note about Vanguard is that it's really 33 unique cards that need to be considered, due to 17 cards always being dedicated to triggers and a starter. Granted, sometimes unique triggers and starters are a factor, but generally since the start of the V-series, these cards are unchanged within the clan. Not to mention they are always present with every wave of support.

[@properkroe]

I actually like the VG system as a player (and as a guy that does product orders for an LGS.) For the three clans I play I only have to buy into a few products a year. The difference in my experience is that stores don’t interface with the players and buy product blindly. Some sets I order several cases because of high interest and preorders, sets with little interest I’ll get just a few boxes in any at all. When managed correctly VG is a great game to carry. As one of two stores in the ATL area to support it we have a pretty dedicated base for it, versus YGO or MTG with fickle audiences. At the tournament level VG has the highest deck variety I have ever seen in a TCG outside of Weiss Schwarz. Personally I like that I can play cards that I actually like; each clan having a theme. Don’t like pop idols, play robot dinosaurs. Don’t like chivalrous knights? Play Gundams! All the while keeping to the theme you like. I’m rambling here but I believe VG is a good example of using attributes to define the game in a unique way that sets it apart.

[@summermermaidstar756]

Zeal go brrr (but yeah you're right)

[@cwwisch]

I actually play vanguard at a competitive level and I can tell you its definitely a thing of people huddling around 1 or 2 shops. the reason the game is growing is it is actually a really fun game, it stays in business because it is insanely popular in Japan. Also the shop I went to tends to buy a case maybe at most a d gets rid of most of their stock through weekly tournaments. But during the quarantine I have really kept up.

[@DualSwordBesken]

Probably would have been worth bring up Commander in the video as, despite Magic's normal rules allowing for relatively easy mixing, Commander as a format is practically defined by the inability to mix colors if your chosen commander does not promote some set of colors. This shows a great example of "if given enough base option combinations and designed appropriately, 'unmixable attributes' can be a boon for the game."

[@suddenllybah]

eh, that's people just hacking in unmixablith

[@xekon14]

DualSwordBesken I like the color restrictions as it makes you think more which cards go into your deck since it's a singleton format so you won't have access to the best combos immediately. You need board wipes to stay alive against your opponents combos, get tutors or card draw to get to your combo pieces and maybe even put in some rogue tech cards or ideas that supports your commanders main strategy of playing. It's a good way to use limitation as it makes you think which cards to use instead of chucking in 99 random cards.

[@MansMan42069]

WWE Raw Deal has a unique take on this in that the archetype is based on your Superstar card. Barring specific restrictions (listed as part of the Superstar effect), you can put any generic card in your deck. However, some cards are signature moves and can only be packed by that specific Superstar. This makes sense thematically. There is also a sub-archetypes based on Brand (Smackdown/Raw) and Face/Heel. You can only pack cards of one Brand (if you do) and Face/Heel (if you do). Raw Deal is brilliant in that its use of hard rules is mechanically and thematically sound.

[@CommonerS19]

Personally, part of the reason I wanted to play Vanguard was because of that very segmented and oftentimes slow roll out for new cards for some clans. I got into the game with Bermuda Triangle, which is a once a year support, so it was a way for me to play a deck I liked for a longer time without absolutely needing to buy stuff like I would have for Magic. I could play my Bermuda deck, then if something came along that looked cool and I had the money, I could buy in and play that, and if not, I wouldn't have to worry that either rotation or just not having the options my deck needed would hurt me. I don't disagree that it can be fiddly though, just a matter of what we're all willing to go through for the different things we enjoy, I suppose.

[@suddenllybah]

Doesn't that run the risk of your deck like getting powercreept?

[@Teddy-od7lp]

As if other games don't have powercreep ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@suddenllybah]

@@Teddy-od7lp sure, but at least decks generally get support at roughly the same time, so the reason your deck isn't good isn't because the devs assume you have support you will only have in 3 months.

[@theodoricwijaya7283]

@@suddenllybah to counter this bushiroad gave "power level" on each set like for example, royals had much support in the first season due to being the main character's clan but each support that royal got isnt gamebreaking in any means, on the other hand every bermuda set that releases once per year receives a lot of power that is going to survive the meta for months (looking at you melody and riviere support)

[@keonheng4125]

@@suddenllybah heres the thing the deck he is running is basically the meta for like 4 months last time

[@ShonicBurn]

When I was a kid I played redemption "the bible tcg" and they dodged the archetype issue by making good cards offensive only and evil cards defensive that way you needed a mix of both to win. I found it to be a super interesting mechanic.

[@sharktenko267]

1: as you said allot of vanguard sales actually happen online rather than in store And this is what my lgs did, the moment they saw the issue they restricted vanguard to online only and only by box this is done by vanguard actually having really really cheap booster boxes 2: even if the store doesn't hold tournaments players are allowed to and even than most just play casually 3: actually the old cards didn't lose value cause vanguard has a legacy formate called premium

[@Swangmich]

There are 24 OFFICAL clans in vanguard. Union Verse only exists in the manga, there's not enough cards in Eteranger to be played as an actual clan, and Mask Collection is exclusive to the Thai format. But then again, 24 is still wrong, as there's Token Ranbu and BanG Dream being added along with Cray Elementals being an actual clan.

[@sekaihunter9378]

That sounds so similar to the Divine attribute and the Divine-Beast type in Yugioh lol

[@Gojin91]

Cray Elementals aren't even a clan they're more like a race and are just an archetype of card that can be played in any deck we're just getting a Cray Elemental Deck in Premium Collection 2020

[@MegaAgamon]

I love how you used the example that mastered the Unmixable Attributes and is growing Cardfight Vanguard. Bushiroad isn't perfect, I agree but they are far from the bumbster fire you display them to be. First of all you forget the other side of the coin! The game is way more affordable. In most card games you need to buy the new powerful cards every new set which costs a ton! In vanguard if you play only clan you buy support for it once or twice a year(with few exceptions). That means that it is easier to build decks for the people who enter the game and it is way cheaper than most card games to build and maintain a deck. Also Bushiroad is smart on booster sets. They put 4-5 clans but since they have all the tournament data they know which clans are and aren't popular because when you register a decklist you register your clan. So they pair the unpopular ones with the popular ones to make sure people buy out the boosters. Most Vanguard players like me actually enjoy this mechanic. Because it makes our decks cheaper and it forces variaty into the game. Also if a clan gets few really powerful cards it doesn't powercreeep the other clans.

[@thewolf8660]

Exactly, I've got a Kagero That I haven't changed a thing about in nearly three years and I can still hold my own in local events.

[@noukan42]

But can you actually use the unsupported clans in torunaments? If in a new sets 5 clans gets tons of cards and the others get nothing, i would expect that those 5 clans would be better than anything else because every card game has powercreep. But then, for the next turnament you can't use those 5 clans anymore because other 2 sets came out and there are 10 clans that powercreepd them. So, while the price of a single deck may be low, i doubt you can take the same deck over many tournament whitout getting destroyed.

[@gonzoengineering4894]

Buying one or two sets a year isn't really cheaper, that's about standard in mixable games and factor in that most of the relevant set is irrelevant to your deck and any cost per pack advantage evaporates as well. It's arguably deceptive but it ultimately just evens it out with other games at the end user level. So it's fine. Everything he said about retailers still holds true. I know one game store still trying to clear their old stock and three that closed with a couple stacks of boxes taller than me. The only official competitive play I've EVER seen on my side of the Mississippi was at an international pan-industry convention, and that was only at Bushiroad's retail booth rather than a designated play event

[@KuribPlays]

@@noukan42 a lot of clans with cards from their previous sets still hold super well against newer cards. Newer cards introduce a slightly stronger mechanic compare to their previous ace card. Power creep is still there but after reboot they don't want to over killing it like back in G Era.

[@boxtank5288]

It can STILL hurt: try running a local game store yourself (in a NON tournament part of the world as such tourney's (the big ones) are always in Singapore and Malaysia) and find that you cannot just have one product, you have to have a mix, various TCGs (including the OG, MAGIC THE GATHERING) and Board Games (from classic to wargaming) and pen and paper RPGs (D&D, VtM, Shadowrun, any number of tabletop rpgs). Approach this from his perspective and not just your own. The board games by the way can range in price from 15 for smaller games and EXPANSIONS to 30 dollars for bigger games, hell EVEN higher in some cases. Card sets (whole boxes with core and boosters) can run from 20 to 30 (if I recall because a big SET of cards ran up to 20 in Walmart)

[@drimwalkr8923]

To be fair to vanguard, the reason we have a hard mixing rule is because they removed the soft mixing rule, gave us free reign for literally 1 core set and 2 extra sets, and then we went and burned the house down. I'm not even talking about the Thing Saver Abyss deck. That unholy abomination (which is the reason ONLY Blaster Dark is allowed in Royal Paladin decks) was the least problematic build. The downright Emperor forsaken, Chaos Blessed HERESY that was the G2 legion mate lineup from the darkest depths of Slanesh's depraved libido will live on as a foul reminder as to why we, the gaming community as a whole, can't have nice things. Emperor protect us all.

[@VelvisOdonnell]

But, vanguard was going through a reboot tho. So just “starting over” is fine right? They have all these clans but they just give “support” to current clans over others during curtain sets. Like yugioh does this. I wouldn’t just wright off Vanguard because of this. I mean the concept of being able to rep your clan and prove that your clan is the best sounds great to me, every clan gets support or will get support. Things like that take time.

[@nekoluxuria7721]

@Dovahgatr for me its GC, Link Joker, and bermuda triangle.

[@goldenlink40]

Yea my store explained that to me to which i did reply that made into a compromise. Preorders. The players themselves would order a certain amount of the said product and the store itself would fulfill that order. after that, they would have at the most 1 box for promotion mostly for any card game that would get a decent following (about 10 people is the right number for them). That would also mean that we keep them up to date about what is happening with the game itself. Bottom line if you want the store to sell that said product, build a relationship between establishment and customers. Make compromises, so both sides are happy.

[@Snowmon89]

"Can you imagine if MTG decided to make a product that only features blue and white?" MTG kind of already does this. You are aware of Attribute Specific booster packs, right? It was super useful when I wanted to build decks (or rather collect cards) from specific attributes or with specific strategies in mind. And they did sell products/Decks (at least with the Guilds of Ravnica) that were specifically for each guild. However, at least I can understand what you're trying to say with all this.

[@Bladezeromus]

I'm pretty sure he's aware. They aren't really worth mentioning, though, because those are supplemental to the main product releases.

[@blackbot7113]

Pre-Constructed decks have always (or for very long) been a thing. I think they're not necessarily aimed at long-time players, though - they are for people who want to get into Magic or try out the new expansion. Back when I started they used monocolored, smaller decks in the core sets (40 cards for one color) while the expansions mixed things up (Mirrodin, for example, had white, green, red and black/blue). Long-time players probably won't bother and buy boosters straight away.

[@evanrubenstein1874]

The difference is that those are supplemental sets and there are more options than only blue and white decks with those kinds of products. A more accurate comparison would be like if the next standard set (which, at the time of writing is Zendikar: Rising) only included blue and white cards. With that kind of comparison you can see a pretty clear issue.

[@dreadfirewyrm8337]

They have done this in the past with sets and blocks in the past. Check out the sets Torment (mostly black) and Judgement (green and white) both from Odessy block. Then the two Mirrodon blocks (but did include work around in these two blocks).

[@rmt3589]

I refused to play a game, Weiss Swarts or something like that, because it couldn't mix decks. I saw an anime I liked, and vocaloids, and excitedly exclaimed my enthusiasm for making a deck where I could mix the two. Got shot down, and refused to play. Think i saw that they had new Overlord cards, and was surprised they were still around. I might have become a superfan, having a deck full of friends, senpais, waifus, and husbandos.

[@rivzxxx3490]

Weiss what now? 😂😂

[@rmt3589]

@@rivzxxx3490 Idk how it's spelled.

[@makokx7063]

For vanguard isn't it the Japanese sales that keep them alive? That shit is everywhere here and there are almost no card/game shops. I have to go to Yokohama to find a couple that are the size of a college dorm rooms. Since space is so limited there are very few places that you can play in the store like in the states. Sometimes there will be 2 tables set up but even thats rare and the ones I've seen went under fast. TCG are generally sold at convenient stores (there is a 7/11, lawson, familymart on literally every block)book stores, game stores or electronic stores.

[@bryanmerel]

More and more Card Shop in Japan are now dropping Vanguard for Digimon TCG.

[@gamenerdte1]

As a former Vanguard player I can personally attest to the attribute problems in the game. One thing that wasn't even fully talked about was the support of the different clans. Because of how closely tied the card game is the show, there was this problem that the clans played by the main character and their closest allies would see more frequent support throughout the year. The average of seeing support for a clan every 1.5 years was somewhat for the more "unpopular" clans while the clans played by the main character saw support in almost every other set. This leads to the problem as mentioned that if a player only likes or wants to play a particular kind of the deck then they may not even see proper support for it in a year. For example, back in G-era of Vanguard, one of the clans that I wanted to play as Angel Feather saw 3 sets of support at one point for the particular "cycle" while several of the clans played by the hero team saw around 6 sets at the same time and I felt blessed to get that support. Side note: Bushiroad does have sets where they support all of the clans but its not in the same fashion as the normal booster sets.

[@emmemttc]

'vanguard clan doesn't promote clan mixing' Ain't, each clan has a sub clan and archetype where u make a deck mixing each sub clan and archetype. '24?I counted 27' The others clans aren't even real clans, they are promo clans that cannot be used and are as promo cards. The 4 clan per set is good enough. With so much clans, they can't just cater too just one clan, thus there's new support to each clan once a year. 'The product doesn't sell well' Are you sure it's not just only you're States? In Singapore, the sales are high and demand reprints as well that there's a secondary market out here. Not only that, the try 3 trail decks as well as the next stage booster sold out with 2 weeks in japanese and in English, it sold out both the booster and trail decks after a week. It sold out so badly that they have to do a reprint for the Japanese version with promo cards in each trail decks that are all expensive cards. Not only that, the non mixing help to balance out the game easier then mixing. Look at the banlist for vanagurd, there's not alot compared to other cars game as most cards aren't broken. As for tier 0,look at the data, sure there's tier 0 decks, but there are still weaker decks winning or making it into high level tournemnt. Vangaurd is more luck then having op deck. If you're using a op deck but you couldn't use your engine, you lose. On the contrary, if youre using a weak deck but with luck, you're win.

[@windwaker0rules]

you could sum it up as: current vanguard trial decks don't suck balls, so it makes up for some of the release issues.

[@DetectiveThursday]

I think one game that did unmixable attributes right was Android Netrunner, and that is because from the very beginning Corp and Runners have VERY different playstyle and mechanics and have different methods for winning the game (and yes, even different card backs). that being said, due to the influence system, there was still interplay within runner cards factions and within megacorps respectively. for tournaments they'd get around the difference between corp and runner by requiring players to have 2 decks, 1 corp and 1 runner and the player had to switch off when they play each other.

[@Acidonia150reborn]

8:08 That's any card of the Reptile Type in Yu-Gi-Oh. There lucky every 3 years to get 8 new cards. Least all their Support cards work with each other and not Themes though. This was really annoying though Link era since the rules required to no longer need to use Links was three weeks after they printed the only two Reptile Link cards in TCG.

[@bryanmerel]

I feel you bro. 😂

[@bryanmerel]

Yup, reptiles are some of the most deprived monster type in Yu-Gi-Oh. 😂

[@conankudo3]

So as a LGS owner with a successful scene for Vanguard (and also a longtime fan of the game) I 100% agree with the concerns brought up. To answer how LGSs have to deal with Vanguard is to have very open communications on what people are interested in to know what to pre-order and what to not. Thankfully, VG is the one game (due *to* its clan nature) where we know very early on in the distribution cycle what clans are going to be in what set. So for example, the next set Silverdust Blaze I ordered a ton for because my playerbase is heavily excited for and planning on grouping together to buy a ton. But the set after that, Butterfly'd Moonlight I'm not getting a lot of because (despite it having popular clans and archetypes) none of my players are interested in it. You can't just buy every set -- you have to know what your players are interested in. Which is confusing for newer stores but I find it similar to them know which YGO sets are going to plummet and suck vs the ones that tend to be amazing and will sell out in an instant. (Also random bit -- VG boxes tend to be super cheap so it helps a bit as well)

[@MomijiHVods]

Exactly. We're always kind to our game shop and let our store owner which sets you should order a lot of, and which you shouldn't buy more than a bit of, as we can see the card lists in advance. It's just common courtesy for a card game that releases product that wont appeal to everyone.

[@daviddavis3939]

When I played vanguard I literally went out of my way to make a deck from every available clan to keep supporting it at my local card shop. I would have to look at the list of clans to remember what ones they were but I had at least 9 decks sitting in my bag while I used my main one.

[@___i3ambi126]

I feel like this scale is a big way yugioh has chamged over the years. Initially there was basically nothing stopping you from just putting the best cards together, where now its extremely common for not only the best decks to often be stacking a single strategy but also for the best cards within those strstegies to come with mixing limitations. Its nice having the rare true innovation in deck building when a new tier 0 or tier 1 deck is made by mixing a bunch strategies in likely unforseen ways. I'm jealous of the first person to innovate combo thunder which at the time was called "chaos danger thunder guarddragon combo" mixing 5 different archetypes in surprisingly consistent and explosive way that none were designed for.

[@Longlius]

I feel like the Japanese and the North American/European TCG markets are so vastly different that it's really hard for cross-pollination to occur. Only a rare game like Yugioh can really capture both. The Japanese market loves this seasonal flash-in-the-pan card churn whereas the western market is always looking for staple cards. Not that there's anything wrong with the Japanese approach - if your market can support it, there's a lot to be said about a game that gets such frequent releases that the meta never settles down into something staid. I just think it comes down to a difference in markets.

[@RockMongler]

For a game with two specific sides (like the austin powers card game), for a tournament, you generally require people to have decks prepared for both sides, and you have some system of scoring play. That's how Decipher's Star Wars CCG handled it. Every player needs a light and dark side deck, and you will play both.

[@justingerry97]

i noticed with Vanguard that they had clans that kinda fell into different groups, i feel like if they made it so the group could be used instead of the individual clans it would skyrocket

[@Tchan1337]

Well do I have news for you, 2 years later

[@prozelz9995]

Its worth mentioning that vanguard is actually bushiroad's most profitable game. Between rabid fans who'll keep buying product (at my locals in a small town in Ontario, we instantly buy up as much product as the STORES can buy) and an aggressive marketing campaign in its home region, it continues to do well since its initial launch in 2011/12

[@Gunblazer1000]

It's overdress era in vg now as i'm watching the videos, now that 24 clans have been merged into 5 nations, it does solves the 1.5 years per new releases per clan problem, to new cards for all 5 nations per few months instead. However i'm not sure if it's just me, but i'm having hard time getting staples of a mere 1-2 sets older cards due to me starting late in overdress era. Even then some staples of a mere common rarity is either too rare for me to obtain by singles, or overpriced due to low supply high demand. What i've been told is that, because of the usual 4-5 clans are now merged into 1 nation as 4-5 archetype, so each of those archetypes are now fighting to include those staples with insufficient prints to cater all the archetypes. Not saying that i hate current vg game design, since it does brings a lot of quality of life changes compared to previous format. But man do i missed the times where trying obtain important staples is relatively easy to obtain and fair priced, because the other 23 clans can't use it.

[@cybertronmessiah]

Magic's Torment expansion was a set that was predominantly leaning towards black. Mirrodin 1 had two sets where the artifact percentage was insane.

[@TheKurt981]

Can confirm right now that Vanguard is growing. as far as i'm aware there was a recent Boom in Singapore and even here in Australia my locals has been growing at a steady pace. as for the release of booster set, they don't really power creep but allow for clans to receive new ways to play their decks. so all in all while yes Vanguard does comite this sin. i would say the state of the game is still pretty healthy

[@PercyPanleo]

Another note for the Digimon Card Game, while evolution and Option cards require you to have a Digimon of that color, Tamer cards only require it for color-specific effects (Meaning that cards like Yamato and Joe can be used in basically any deck

[@Red-yx5fd]

To clarify for vanguard: 1.) there are 24 clans. But there are 3 clans that aren’t counted as they are not legal and are primarily promo only(etranger, the mask collection, union verse) 2.) also the reason why you can’t mix decks is simple. It wasn’t hard locked for a long time but each clan has its own skill set, to which being able to mix made unbeatable combos that you couldn’t guard against(ex. The card silent Tom). The “main character syndrome” you speak of that breaks the rules is there for the simple fact that they existed before the hard lock, and they allowed it so the deck it functions for is still playable for the people who spent money on it If I got something wrong please correct me but he didn’t mention about the pre existing soft lock in vanguard then talks bad about it. I mean this in no disrespect I just wanted to clarify and I love the vids. Otherwise you were quite insightful on the game itself

[@cheezemansam9567]

I think a great example of a game that did this very well is Android: Netrunner, where the two different sides have literally completely and 100% mutually exclusive cards (Corp v. Runner). But within the two sides there were factions with a very robust 'faction' system which had a point limit 'splashing' but the cards worked completely the same outside of a faction as within (and many cards were in practice stronger out of faction), with the primary resource (credits) being universal. They did have the issue where the "big boxes" only had 2 factions (1 of corp/runner) cards but people who played the other factions still benefited because of how much splashing is designed around.

[@Schmoltis]

This video comes out, 6 months later Bushiroad merges their entire clan system into 5. Coincidence?

[@Kohdok]

Yes. Dear God, I sure hope they don't take MY advice...

[@implozia1360]

Thank you for explaining why I saw a Vanguard poster prominently in my LGS where I play Pokemon, but no products and just events.

[@HunterSerge]

Isn't this supposed to be about sins that kill games in 2 years? Where are the examples of unmixable attributes killing games in that timespan? This video is spent almost entirely on Vanguard, a game that regardless of your opinions or it's success in your local area, is 9 years, still doing very well, and is such a successful game that it singlehandedly grew Bushiroad into a Global company. It completely fails to prove your point as a result. This video should have been spent on games that ACTUALLY died within 2 years, or at least had died at all, that had unmixable attributes.

[@Kohdok]

Today on "Didn't watch the full video".

[@HunterSerge]

@@Kohdok I did. Next retort? I didn't say you didn't talk about them at all, I said the vast majority of this video is about Vanguard.

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

vanguard proves the exception, not the rule

[@justanotherguywithoutamust5776]

@@HunterSerge he is stating the examples of how a game can die easily just using vanguard as an example, the video is about the things that are best to not be done to make a successful card game, it's just that vanguard managed to hold on and I'm proud of it.

[@bryanmerel]

I mean Cardfight Vanguard Locals stop on my area in LESS THAN A YEAR. ._.

[@darkfent]

I was surprised how with boosters of different series and years in ygo, you could still find something nice from old or newer cards...now if only they could get back to simpler times

[@andrelima4125]

6:40 actually the whole segment of this sets having less clans. yeah god forbid people spending more than one deck right?

[@christopherbennett5858]

As a Cardfight player, I would agree with you in the G era. Especially since I'm a Bermuda and OTT player. Nowadays? Good luck on more than 2, mate.

[@gobtherookie9046]

@@christopherbennett5858 Bermuda gets support once a year, of course as a Murakumo main, it was just as bad

[@Yuberz]

Vanguard ZERO's launch is probably why more people are interested in vanguard recently

[@haz-mattstudio6074]

Pretty good series. I was really hoping that these were old videos and the series was finished lol. Will deffinitly keep watching. :D

[@baileywhite399]

A lot of the popular stores sell online through tcgplayer. And I personally (along with a lot of other players) love the mechanic of clans and a lot of people play at least 3 clans ( but a lot play a good bit more) and it helps because support is almost always really playable and you only have to buy cards for any given deck about once a year

[@kingvire]

Funny thing is agree when vanguard switched to the clan fight rule at the release of G I was upset as some of my favorite g-units weren’t apart of my clan. Extreme fight was fun. We had some decent clan mixing that even saw some competitive success like Freezeray-Angels or Thing Saver Abyss. With the limitation that some powerful vanguards had the lord ability to prevent them from attacking if they had a non-matching clan or even the idea that you required a specific clan on field to use a stronger effect and the idea that you needed a clan on field to activate a trigger effect. Even as someone who loves cardfight I agree I enjoyed having the option of mixing even if it didn’t always allow for crazy combos or as successful decks as dumpling following a sub-clan.

[@kingvire]

Also along with the 27 clan thing Union Verse doesn’t exist outside the manga, Estranger is for crossover/joke cards and Mask collection is a Korean exclusive clan.

[@haosmagnaingram6992]

King Vire yeah when I looked at that I was like “why are there twice as many grey clans as normal?” Thank you

[@StigmaKRL]

1 clan fight started during the legion era 2 mask collection is a thai exclusive release, not korean

[@kingvire]

Stigma Kreis Horrizonne sorry you’re right mask is Thai. You are partially correct. Clan fight was introduced in legion but not implemented in English until February 2015. Legion was a weird time for the English format.

[@justanotherguywithoutamust5776]

So for vanguard, the sets may be supporting some clans per set, however, it only helps the decks a little bit which gives other clan a chance still and if you do mix clans it would cause alot of confusion due to the skills rules

[@AlistairZands]

I think a good example of the mixability of attributes was the Chaotic TCG. The Creatures were divided into 4 (later 5) Tribes, and you could pretty much mix those together if you wanted (and a few cards encouraged mixing the tribes). However, certain Creatures were given a keyword (Loyalty) that only let you use them with Creatures of their own Tribe (The exception being the Tribe whose shtick was mind-control, so they could only be used with their own Tribe and/or a specific sub-set of creatures who would get different abilities by using them with said Tribe). This was interesting because it was a way to give a limitation to stronger cards that might otherwise be easy to toss in everywhere, while not overly restricting deck-building.

[@marcodardis5248]

For vg there also seems to be a lot of individuals selling case splits which is a lot cheaper than buying boxes trying to find your stuff. And also a lot of people coordinating with other players buying the cases and then selling the remaining cards to less coordinated or more casual players. How do you take on this issue? Can't expect players to stop doing this if it's more convenient / cheaper than buying from local stores.

[@bryanmerel]

You are forgetting something. Yu-Gi-Oh players also do "Box Breaking"(yeah, thats what you call the thing you just described), but unlike in Yu-Gi-Oh that the secondary market is just a Viable option, In vanguard IT SEEMS THE ONLY OPTION. You seems to misinterpret the problem as people only buy cards online, instead of understanding that the problem is that the only practical way to buy Vanguard cards is on the secondary market because the primary market is oversaturated with specialized packs that not everyone can actually benefit from.

[@bryanmerel]

In my opinion, vanguard should hve really stuck with just around 5 to 6 clans and just make the newer clan a "sub clan". For exampla, Bermuda Triangle, Aqua Force, and Grand Blue are all 3 clans based on the fuckin ocean. Its so redundant that they nees to create 3 water based clans. How easy is it to just merge this 3 to be a single clan and call it "The High Seas" for example and make the Bermuda Triangle, Aqua Force, and Grandblue a "subclann" of thise new high seas? That way this 3 can share supports while still benefitting with each other on their own. 😒

[@bryanmerel]

That way, if bermuda has lacking of support, it can borrow from other member of the high seas for it. I mean, they kinda have done it with Nova Grapler's Death Army and those OTT's battle nun archetype that i forgot the name of.

[@voidangel6973]

Bryan Hernandez that doesn’t work. Especially with v series. The clans aren’t related to each other at all based on their lore location or colour. Bermuda Triangle, aqua force and gran blue play VERY differently from each other. Gran blue sets on milling and revival. Aqua force is the amounts of attacks it can perform in a turn. Bermuda Triangle... does whatever it wants, melody is based on sharing all your grade 3s ability’s with your other grade 3s that can share abilities, then you have coral, and rivière etc. But you can’t just combine the clans together, since it would be harmful to the games balance. A way to deal with aqua force is to try and wipe their rear guards since they have limited draw which would be used to having to rebuild their board. To deal with gran blue you can just stall them long enough since they can mill themselves out. By just combing those together, you could take cards like glory maelstrom (aqua force, able to make your opponent only guard with 1 card) and combine it with skull dread dragon (gets something like +2k for each card in your drop zone) and it’s even more ridiculous with imaginary gifts, “oh, I need an extra turn to win this game, I’ll go protect” or “oh, I can just kill my opponent with an extra rear guard to attack with accel” and this is all just with those two clans. The clans act like archetypes, with a playstyle and theme unique to each clan. With vanguard you build multiple decks as well, you’d be hard pressed to find a player stuck with only 1 deck. I have 7 just in v series, and with the no boxes I’m planning on upgrading 4 of them, and building 3 new clans. Even if a box doesn’t have a clan you currently play in it, a new card to play that current play style or a different looking card can attract you on picking up a box to play that clan. And these argument act like you can’t just buy cards online? I have never had issues without a vanguard card store in my area, I’m upset that we can’t really hold local events, but I’m still able to play the game and buy cards. I can buy singles if a new box only has 1 clan I’m interested in, which will reduce the price of the deck significantly since I’m not buying boxes for it. Or I can buy a box online if there’s multiple clans I want to build. A card store is completely unnecessary for my enjoyment of the game. And the way they release boxes for vanguard is different anyway. They release clans in lots of 4s for main booster boxes. 3 for extra booster boxes. And then they release stuff like Bermuda in a box of their own. And it’s not like it’s completely random as well, there will be at least 1 clan you’re interested in even if you don’t want to buy that specific box (which is where buying singles is handy) Clans like mega colony, spike brothers and tachikaze are almost always released with each other, so if you like all 3 then boxes like that are perfect, and if you only like one, if you have a locals group (which you should considering you’re playing the game) you can discus it with them and see if they want to split boxes for the clans. I want a lot more boxes for vanguard than I do for games like yugioh or Pokemon, where it might be the odd one card for the deck I have that I’ll want, or 4 or 5 sets Until a new archetype looks fun to play, but they hard print the archetype so I’m getting actual unusable garbage that I can’t use looking for cards I want

[@voidangel6973]

Sorry if my previous comment was too long or I sounded angry. I’m passionate about the game and I do agree with the point that pumping out box after box is insane. But the clans work kind of like archetypes from yugioh, where you can’t really mash 2 together all too well, but vanguard can since the clans are isolated to themselves, you don’t have to worry about making something so generic that it had to be banned since the ban list was created (pot of greed) even though recently vanguard has been a bit out of hand with needing to ban cards

[@marx1095]

pvz heroes is also one that is an example of this not only does it have the good vs evil thing it has SEPERATED ATTRIBUTES with your hero having 2 classes of cards you can use hell some combinations cant be used cause theyre hero sucks due to their power load out like brain freeze having a potentially nice class loadout but never being used due to having shitty powers

[@fernandobanda5734]

I use Brain Freeze in an environment-heavy deck. :) I'm guessing the idea was that the game would keep adding new heroes so you could have multiple choices per color combination but they stopped after the first two.

[@waltercardcollector]

Where did you find that Voldemort Vanguard card? I love it.

[@bryanmerel]

Probably fan made. XD

[@Randalor]

Android: Netrunner, while not a TCG (It was a living card game, so instead of boosters, it received regular expansion sets of about 60 cards) dealt with the "Opposing attributes" aspect for tournaments by having the players bring two decks (one for Runners and one for Corps) and then play two games, switching the roles and recording who won and the final scores of the games. It worked more due to the fact that you were guaranteed to get cards for both Corp and Runner in each expansion, but the same could work for other games that have a set "X vs Y" game style.

[@Takato]

I actually never looked at Vanguard's Clan system that way...

[@deerseed9503]

The old Star Wars CCG by Decipher had a really good binary system. You had to have both light and dark for tournaments and ran really smoothly.