NO REMINDER TEXT! The Seven DeadlySins of TCG Design #7

For nearly 25 years, a gameplay streamlining tool has been available to Card Game Designers the world over, and yet some games still choose to not use it...
Follow me on Twitter! kohdok

[@LuvzToLol21]

Magic: "exile" Yugioh: "banish" Pokemon TCG: *"THE LOST ZONE"*

[@xolotltolox7626]

"Removed from play"

[@Chiffonaise]

The funny thing is while Pokémon is the last of the big 3 TCGs to introduce a remove from play mechanic, it's the first to give it a name other than "removed from (play/the game)"

[@Dyllon2012]

I wonder what the deepest removal in any TCG is? In some sense, Yu-Gi-Oh has a degree of 3 (GY, banish, and finally banished facedown).

[@Zetact_]

@@Dyllon2012 Isn't there some gimmick card in Magic that requires you tear it up after playing?

[@grantflippin7808]

​@@Zetact_ blacker lotus

[@hirumaredx]

The seven deadly sins were good and everything, but what about the 14 deadly sins?

[@laughingfurry]

I think I already see one of the 7 more. Bad layout. I admit some games I never picked up because the layout was confusing to look at. Nothing to draw the eye to where to look. Can be just me, but I'm curious if others have a similar mindset.

[@MABfan11]

are you TheDuelLogs?

[@feritperliare2890]

@@laughingfurry that redemption game he reviewed for example has pretty bad layout that makes my eyes get confused and I'm playing eye of the storm in commander mtg

[@genocidegames8423]

Maybe 7 Saintly Virtues?

[@shadowmanwkp]

Correct, that's his WOW account.

[@Wslasher]

This last one feels so short. I'm going to miss this series.

[@kennydarmawan13]

I think we already can sum up this sin of TCG easily.

[@notabene9804]

This will probably have a more lengthy follow up; he usualy does a case study after and i assume this wouldnt be any different.

[@kankouya]

Wslasher, why are you just everywhere???

[@Wslasher]

@@kankouya Because I'm not bound to my channel's contents & have a multitude of other interest?

[@evilmidget]

Here's hoping we get a lengthy follow up video

[@KingBobXVI]

4:24 - On the topic of Haste's reminder text, it's actually a perfect example of what the often misunderstood adage "exception that proves the rule" means, and is a great way of teaching people how the game works through the cards themselves. The reminder text for haste teaches new players of MTG that usually creatures may _NOT_ attack and use tap abilities the turn it comes under your control - it is an exception to a rule that players might night know about already, and the exception helps to explain this rule. The same is true for the reminder text for vigilance in the next shot - "Attacking doesn't cause this creature to tap" is another exception which helps to teach new players that _normally,_ attacking _does_ require creatures to tap. Writing out these rules as abilities that function as exceptions to those rules helps players learn the basics on their own with only the cards. The phrase does apply in real life as well and is a good way to teach people without some kind of exposition dump. A "No Right On Red" sign is another example of something that proves that a general rule of, "you may make right turns at red lights" exists, just not where the sign is present. Unfortunately, "an exception that proves the rule", seems to usually get misunderstood as some kind of declaration that a rule isn't a _real_ rule until it's broken, or something, which is just kind of dumb.

[@suddenllybah]

More of an exception shows that a rule normally applies. ... and the exception gets you hype for more stuff that breaks rules.

[@ScribeAwoken]

ngl this is actually the first time I've heard this particular interpretation of that adage. I'd actually kinda been operating on a third, also incorrect but completely different interpretation. So the adage comes from a medieval legal principle that was often written out in Latin as "exceptio probat regulam in casibus non exceptis" or literally "the exception tests the rule in the cases not excepted." I had interpreted it not as "an explicit exception to a rule implies the existence of that rule" or "a rule having exceptions proves that the rule is valid, actually," but as "an exception to a rule that tests the limits or validity of that rule," assuming that "proves" was a mistranslation that became more widespread than a more correct translation like "the exception that tests the rule" or "the exception that probes the rule"

[@jojojo9240]

now it all makes sense...

[@postmodernguava9518]

5:02 *Fun Fact:* Old Fogey is the _only_ MtG card with the "Bands with other" keyword. All the other cards with it are a creature that makes tokens with "Bands with other," five lands that grant "Bands with other" to certain-colored legendary creatures, and a creature that _removes_ "Bands with other" from enemy creatures.

[@chrislloyd4388]

This series and your channel have been a huge help to me! I have been working on a card game for a couple years now, had to restart after losing all my previous work more than a couple times but in finding your series you have helped give me a lot of ideas and advice on what and what not to do. Your channel and game knowledge especially about TCG's is priceless. I hopeto see more videos even though the series has ended. Card games have been a huge part of my life and my experiences with learning to get out of my comfort zone. I hope one day I can share the same passion with a new group of people and maybe create something fresh to keep minds sharp and tables roaring with laughter and fun. Please keep up the good work! Godspeed

[@Caesim9]

I think the seven deadly sins lay an excellent foundation for your yt channel because if you talk about specific tcgs you can simply link to these videos. Btw, if you haven't heard about it, Warhammer: Age of Sigmar Champions is a tcg with quite some neat ideas and it incorporates it's idea of "hero" cards pretty well in my opinion. But what completely destroyed it was deck splitting. Yeah, there are 4 factions and I can't mix cards for decks. So that game is pretty dead. I bought a whole booster display for 10 bucks.

[@DeadlyGrim]

(Three years late but, eh) 2:53 I'd say that Donate'ing Illusions of Grandeur wasn't a "meme strategy". It was the basis of the Trix deck archetype, which was extremely strong for several years. It was a blue-black control deck which used card draw, tutors, and fast mana to get Illusions/Donate out quickly. Aggro decks couldn't deal with the opponent gaining 20 life on turn 2 or 3 and combo/other control decks had a really tough time dealing with the amount of counters and hand disruption that Trix threw around.

[@blstuff]

My favorite is Digimon that has reminder text for “Draw 2”. It says “draw 2 from your deck” Guess they couldn’t figure out Pot of Greed

[@LucasDrakel]

I want to thank you for this series. I'm an aspiring game maker and this is all very useful advice. Hopefully you will be talking positively about one of my games in the future.

[@JazzyWaffles]

dang it now I have the Pokemon Card Game Game Boy game battle music stuck in my head.

[@packardgoose400]

Seriously Kohdok, you're one of the best TCG channels.

[@someguy5766]

My body is ready

[@Ratstail91]

You don't seem to have mentioned the Final Fantasy TCG at all. It's pretty great.

[@Dareianrc36]

I loved Lightseekers so much as a game. Me and my wife played it a ton. I hate that it just kind of died. Kaijudo/DuelMasters is still my favorite TCG and didn't deserve to die either. I'm scared to get into a new TCG at this point.

[@Dwerynith]

well, if this sin needs a cardgame to represent it, there's my boy YGO

[@kamenpikachu1584]

The grand finale!

[@suddenllybah]

burn reminds me of reach. no really, the ability to lets creatures block flyers while not giving them an evasion ability shared a name with a earlier concept of being able to deal extra damage quickly without dealing with blockers. So yeah, that needed reminder text.

[@waltercardcollector]

Besides Lightseekers, what other games are there that failed and didn’t have reminder text? (And is Lightseekers still going?)

[@JustJules250]

What are your thoughts of card games that effectively don't use keywords, like Yugioh? Possible mention in the follow up video?

[@RinaShinomiyaVal]

Banish and piercing ate keywords YGO has. And Yugiohs effect balancing cant be all around keywords bc its balanced around sentence structure. Thats why PSCT exists

[@GTA_500]

Being able to use any card as Mana in duel Masters was my favorite part of the game very underrated game

[@StarkMaximum]

Man, it's kind of anticlimactic that this is the last Sins video with how basic and simple it is. Just a 10 minute video talking about why reminder text is important and one example of a game that shows how not using it can be a struggle (at least the keywords are highlighted so you know they're special). Not to degrade your video making skill, just that after some of the absolute trash fires I've seen in the previous sins, this video almost felt...normal. I guess it's because what TCG in their right mind would debut a starter set, introduce keywords, and NOT explain them on the cards? It's probably a struggle to find even a single TCG that does that. Regardless, it's still a great video and it's always fun to hear you talk about the history of card games and other tabletop games!

[@Zanji1234]

O_o never ever HEARD of Beast Clan TCG the one in the background

[@ProphesizedHero]

Can you talk about the fall of the Bakugan reboot

[@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat]

I see in school younger kids playing Pokemon cards for money. Trading card games were a mistake.

[@Cimoooooooo]

Meanwhile, Yu-Gi-Oh: *Stares at Endymion*

[@viktoria_pikovsky]

Hey, it's Cimooo! How's going pal? as a fellow YGO player, I can confirm. At least you know what it does when you finally read it, unlike with Pot of Greed.

[@Sombres]

Yeah. We made some progress with piercing damage and whatnot, but oof.

[@iSearchYoutube]

That's more so a case of the card having multiple effects, not that they can be abbreviated into smaller sentences (considering the card plays with counters which isn't that universal)

[@feritperliare2890]

@@iSearchKZbin well in more general cases like instead of saying this card cannot be destroyed by battle why not just something like relentless maybe?

[@iSearchYoutube]

@@feritperliare2890 That's actually a valid argument. I was just thinking how "negate" effects can't really use key words. Since a card could negate the activation or just the effect, it could destroy, banish or not even remove the card negated. But your example is spot on

[@dsfan2100]

Meanwhile Yugioh changes "graveyard" to "GY" and calls it a day.

[@viktoria_pikovsky]

And it's all because the card effects became so long, they can't fit into the card text box anymore. One the flip side tho, it's something Konami should have done a lot sooner, as there never was a reason to keep writing the terms "graveyard" and "remove from play" on each and every card, since everyone already knew what those terms mean.

[@ScionStorm1]

TCG still uses "Tribute Summon" while OCG changed it to "Advance Summon". Took them forever to officially adopt the term "Piercing" battle damage and "Banish".

[@HasekuraIsuna]

It is more of a problem in the TCG than the OCG, as the Japanese get more info-per-character in their language.

[@Yous0147]

Yeah, Yugioh tried really hard to not make use of keywords in most respects, which worked alright for a good while until the cards became bloated. There's a good reason for this being that the card designs didn't really lend themselves to cohesive keywords until archetypes became a thing, so at first there was no need for it until later.

[@viktoria_pikovsky]

Regarding the "tribute" and "advance" summonings, the change doesn't really mean anything tho, as it's simply a cosmetic change for the OCG to be cooler then actually trim down the fat of the card's texts. And both terms are basically interchangeable when used among the player community, more so when talking about duels shown in the anime.

[@deletethis7848]

The Virgin Keywords vs the Chad Endymion Bible

[@newcontentin100years9]

“Imagine having keywords”. -This post was made by Yugioh players

[@erickjr9]

@@newcontentin100years9 Hey! We do have keywords, like Piercing, and Banish, and... and... Piercing... But we do have keywords!!

[@dhanriel4519]

@@erickjr9 dont forget target and my favorite send/

[@lucascerbasi4518]

who needs keywords when we have the legandary psct

[@TheSimmus]

I still check up on Yugioh every now and then to see if it finally broke under it's messy ruleset. Heard they made two new formats. Speed Duel with the old (good) characters and old cards. And Rush Duel, with playground rules (no sacrifice required, draw until you have 5 cards in hand). Most importantly, they finally try to fix the reminder text on the cards!

[@christopherpoole9556]

One other note with how reminder text is used in Magic: The common and uncommon cards usually have reminder text while the rares and mythics don't. This ensures that the most commonly viewed cards by newer players or in a draft environment have the necessary explanation whereas the cards that are used more by experienced players have room for larger text related to their other effects. This also feeds into a design pattern where they make a certain number of commons and uncommons with just the new keyword for the set tacked on and then make some rares and mythics that use that new keyword in an interesting way.

[@hitlord]

This design also gives them room for walls of text, like my boy Questing Beast.

[@REDSREDSREDS]

it's not that rares and mythics don't have it. they also printed it on rares++ if it's new mechanic (e.g. mutate) or older mechanic that made a resurface on new cards.

[@hitlord]

@Jay Morales Ice Cauldron comes from an unoptimized age, that barely counts. Everything that tried to do somethind different back then was a wall of text. Banding alone could make a card be a wall of text.

[@jameslucrative2054]

Or just cause they have more room for reminder text because even by tcg standards Magic has gotten super gacha and there's no way a common or uncommon is gonna be on equal power as a rare But somehow they avoid gambling laws

[@Ashebrethafe]

James Lucrative Gambling laws were the reason they had to remove ante from the game. (The rules originally stated that each player had to remove a random card from their deck at the start of the game, and whoever won would keep both cards. This was later made optional -- resulting in cards being printed with the text "remove [this] from your deck before playing if you are not playing for ante", either because they interacted with the ante or because they had abilities that forced the opponent to trade them for one of their cards -- and then removed entirely, resulting in all cards with that text being banned.) Also, they had the "Mr. Suitcase" problem in mind from the beginning and tried to fight it by making rarer cards more situational rather than strictly better. I remember reading that they try to make commons always somewhat useful, uncommons useful in certain situations, rares potentially game-winning in decks built around them, and mythics hard to get into play but game-winning if you do.

[@rainfall4410]

There's also the idea of "The Seven Heavenly Virtues of Game Design"....

[@smileywarhead5178]

10 Commandments

[@MrZer093]

10 commandments implies that games would have to follow them to succeed. Plenty of games violate the 7 deadly sins in this series and survive beyond the two year curse but they tend to be exceptions if for no other reason than the fact that they tend to grab an audience long enough with its own unique mechanics. So, heavenly virtues works well so as to not imply that games must follow them to succeed or just because you follow them, you will succeed.

[@c.d.dailey8013]

I can figure that out. The seven deadly sins video series is awesome. There is a lot of good ranting and critisim. Yet when I look past the negativity, I can find ways to improve. The video do give good suggestions on how to improve. The criticism is more constructive. I have seen all the videos. So I know how things can improve. From there I can construct the Seven Heavenly Virtues of Game Design. It is like how the original deadly sins of Christianity have a set of seven virtues, which re the opposite. 1. Don't rotate sets without innovating. 2. Keep track of progression without milling. 3. Have moderate mixing of attributes. 4. Use standard card sizes. 5. Make an original intellectual property. 6. Use a deck and some small pieces. 7. Add reminder text.

[@fufunumnum]

Man, remember how long it took Konami to figure out "Piercing" and "Banish"? Good times..

[@huyphan7825]

Also deal remaining damage to life points card is removed from play also deal remaining damage to life points card is removed from play EXCEPT FROG THE JAM

[@promisnwekenta9703]

I still laugh at Man Eater Bug very first version. Destroy 1 monster on the field "(REGARDLESS OF POSITION)" 😂😂

[@sawderf741]

You do not need to offer a tribute for the special summon of a level 5 or higher monster.

[@gunn0624]

This is one of the places where digital card games have a major advantage. Just looking at digital versions of Magic like Arena or Duels of the Planeswalkers, the reminder text is always available with just a simple button press or hover. It's one of the reasons I feel those are two of the best ways to introduce somebody to MtG. Heck my mom learned how to play that way.

[@revimfadli4666]

Indeed, especially for some games like Slay the Spire or its derivatives where keyword descriptions themselves can have keywords within them, which in turn can recursively have other keywords in their own descriptions, and so ont

[@TheLomdr]

It helped with a digital deck building game that I tried out on my phone. Sadly, the tutorial is a grating experience to sit through because of how weird the voiceover was

[@jmurray1110]

Slay the spire uses it wonderfully

[@evanbanjo]

This is the cardinal sin of TCGs, in my opinion. I've had numerous heated discussions with the people who did the fan translated Digimon 2020 cards, because they would only print reminder on ONE card and the rest just had the keyword. Luckily the official cards use reminder text every damn time.

[@HunterSerge]

Oh boy that group is the absolute worst with that stuff.

[@evanbanjo]

@@HunterSerge Seriously. When BT2 came out, it took me way too long to figure out what "Vengeance" (Retaliation) did because they only put it on Myotismon.

[@CynicalPete]

eh, that doesn't seem too bad to me. these days stuff like that can be looked up so easily it renders reminder text unnecessary

[@erickjr9]

@@CynicalPete It is bad, when you think that you shouldn't be searching for things on other places on a tournament, or how every game can take a lot more if you need to search what a card does.

[@Yous0147]

I agree with you but calling it the cardinal sin of TCG might be a bit much lol, keywords don't always need reminder text. The original only use reminder text if there's room for it in the card, which is a good way to do it.

[@walkaroundincircles]

Banding is an infinitely more notorious and hated mechanic than Phasing.

[@herrabanani]

they're both insanely complex but banding is more "it's insanely complex but no one uses it today because all the cards that have it are terrible" while phasing and phase out still exist in cards that are used in the older formats so people still have to deal with it

[@caveshinobi1726]

@@herrabanani Eh, phasing is much simpler to understand, regardless. All you have to know is "thing on the field phases out before untap, it ceases to exist. At the same time, things that were phased out phase back in and exist again, without triggering any ETB". There. I just explained it in less than 2 lines. Now, banding? Banding has a huge rules baggage related to how it works, how blocking with it works, how damage with it works. It's a nightmare.

[@xfroggs1183]

my exact words while watching the video

[@flametitan100]

@@caveshinobi1726 Banding on its own is pretty straightforward; the problems with it that cause banding to be such a headache are in relation to how it interacts with keywords that affect how damage is assigned (and what happens when an effect kills the banding creature after blockers are declared but before combat resolves)

[@caveshinobi1726]

@@flametitan100 And that's kind of the point I made. All the baggage that comes with banding IS hard to understand, because it has just way too much stuff. Phasing doesn't have any extra complexity besides what I just said. Absolutely everything that asks "what happens if I try to X the phased out permanent?" can be answered by "nothing, it doesn't exist". It ceases to exist and then exists again at the beginning of the following turn. Simple as that.

[@Observador_Pol]

I now It may sound weird, but would you talk about alternative win conditions in Trading Card Games? Other forms outside the standard forms that the game gives the players in order to win the game. Exodia the Forbidden One been one of the most famous example of an alternative win condition in Trading Card Games.

[@default9314]

Are you the dinomist guy?? From the yugioh create a card contest????

[@CloaksCosplays]

Id love to see that!

[@notsoundgenoff]

Yeah, but that's not a sin, let alone a deadly sin. Magic the Gathering does alternate win conditions all of the time. In the past 2 years alone, we've had 4 new cards that win you the game outright, of which only 3 are worth playing, only 2 have seen play (coincidentally, they share the same condition - if your deck is empty, you win the game), and only ONE of them actually sees competitive play (Thassa's Oracle). And even then, that card is not overpowered, or busted or anything. We've also had five cards that read "an opponent loses the game". None of them has been actually used in any competitive setting to win the game through their game-ending effect.

[@Observador_Pol]

@@notsoundgenoff I mean talk about the alternate win conditions overall, not only in Magic, also in other TCG. In an off-topic video.

[@jdb2002]

Though the cards say "you win the duel" if certain conditions are met, which are explained on the main card (The card "Exodia the Forbidden One" (which has the head), the card "Destiny Board", etc.)

[@gmeaki02]

Keywords can also have reminder text when there is room for simple cards, while more complex cards in the same set can just have the keyword as they need the space for their unique abilities.

[@elijahdavila3684]

This. In addition to that, it makes sense to have reminder text on low rarity cards that will show up in packs often as this allows players to see that reminder text constantly and learn what the keyword does through osmosis. Then games can leave the text off of the higher rarity cards that will by nature show up less often because they will already know what the keywords mean by going through dozens of more common cards.

[@RegiRuler]

Can't wait for Yugioh to implement the _Linear Algebra_ keyword.

[@joshuahadams]

What, Linear Equation Cannon having its formula written down rather than it being a word problem? g = (xl)+c

[@zachall1573]

I'm surprised this video never mentioned digital card games and how they handle keywords and reminder text. Hearthstone, for example, doesn't put reminder text on the card but rather has that text appears next to the card whenever you hover over it. Given how Hearthstone is designed for a very casual audience as well as competitive players, their cards tend not to have card text that's very long, being quite big on the card itself. The hearthstone card with the most text is Curious Glimmerroot I believe, and it only has 19 words of card text, which isn't a lot. Saving on real-estate with keywords has got to be one of the biggest advantaged to digital-only card games.

[@MEGASTRIX]

Kinda like LOR too.

[@teamcyeborg]

"Phasing is probably MTG's most infamous keyword" Banding would like to have a word (or 50) with you.

[@Schmoltis]

That was a great point you made with that "Burn" keyword. Rules should also take into consideration the keywords used in other card games. Expect to have players who are brand new to card games and veterans who play many. Don't fall into the trap of confusing veteran card game players by making their previous knowledge of other games hurt them when playing yours.

[@CaptBackwards]

Some keywords you have to "dodge" if you are making your own game. Because lawsuits and etc. Yeah that was a stupid usage of the term burn when they applied it to a keyword.

[@aruretheincomprehensible20]

Boy do I have a story about this. During the end of my fourth year in college, I decided to try and make my own card game. I ended up modelling it heavily after the card game Yomi (like simultaneous turns, focus on non-creature combat, and the preconstructed decks built with a single character in mind) but added elements of deckbuilding games like Slay the Spire (where cards get put into your deck during gameplay) and the use of permanents like in Magic, Pokemon, etc. (Yomi's simultaneous turns didn't allow for permanents because of the problems with activating effects from existing cards on the field). Long story short I ended up using way too many keywords (at one point I had at least 30 keywords across around 70 unique cards), and because of the nature of simultaneous turns each card needed more text so there wasn't much room for explaining the mechanics. Soon after I started playtesting and quickly learned that having so many keywords, especially without reminder text, was really, really bad because players kept getting confused about what cards do. Throw in an unreasonably large 11 card types, unique shuffling mechanics, detrimental placeholder statistic art, and a combat system with an unreasonably large number of exceptions and you have perhaps the most unnecessarily complex card games ever made. Eventually I reduced the number of keywords to a much more reasonable 12-13. This included getting rid of unreasonably complex keywords, adjusting keywords so others weren't necessary, adjusting card types to reduce "simulation" keywords that were there just so one card type could simulate another. I still don't have reminder text, but I did design around it by including all keywords in the instruction manual in an easy-to-access location and by making each keyword either used by every character (so the keyword is constantly reinforced) or by having it heavily used by one character (so it's not something you need to learn when not playing against that character). These can be further reinforced by having a separate rules card for each character that lets both players learn their unique mechanics in an easily accessible way. I'm still technically playtesting it, but it's come a long way from my original designs in terms of simplifying the mechanics so it's easier to understand while still having the depth that it offered.

[@Excellsion]

Meanwhile Yugioh has like 7 keywords if not fewer, and has an essay on every card.

[@FlamyEX]

I would say that PSCT in and of itself could be considered the real keywords of YGO, but yes, a lot of it is just understanding the underlying "mechanics" of the card text, and reminder text could not help the elaborate effects

[@Roboshi2007]

Ygo introduced problem solving card text like 4 years ago though which really helped in the clarity. But those long text explanations are down to the D&D inspirations the game took on.

[@erickjr9]

@@Roboshi2007 It was like 10 years ago, but it wouldn't be bad to update it to some degree, specially for things like Endymion

[@MiguelitoJimz]

@@erickjr9 Keywords don't work in Yugioh because even similar effects might have different conditions, restrictions and execution

[@viktoria_pikovsky]

YGO doesn't actually use keywords. The full effect is simply always written down on the card itself, in great details. But it doesn't mean the game doesn't have specific terms for specific effects and board placements, and it tends to use those terms to simplify the effects written on the cards.

[@zanforian]

I imagine this being said in the “No pomegranates” voice.

[@c3eo125]

Sad to see this series go...

[@BenMarcWilliams]

It really amuses me that, in the intro, the Hecatomb card doesn't scroll offscreen properly. It just stops 90% of the way there, then disappears.

[@BenMarcWilliams]

@GamerBear I'm confident it's because of the abnormal shape. It scrolls offscreen enough that a standard card wouldn't be visible anymore, so I suspect that, whatever video editing software Kohdok used, he programmed the cards to scroll a certain distance offscreen before stopping and then disappearing. But since Hecatomb cards are regular pentagons, they're wider, and that distance isn't enough for them, so it's got a corner sticking out.

[@SquibbyJ]

The pokemon tcg gba music is so good

[@MrVovoda]

Scroll here to read this. What a wonderful tune.

[@sablonanime650]

The more I watch these videos, the more I realize how much of a fluke yugioh was, they don’t have any reminder card text and they have non standard card size? That’s 2 sins right off the bat. Eh, still my favorite tcg.

[@BrunoNunes83]

now that I know all t7ds, I can make a TCG based on Brazilian folklore! TY! 👏🏼👏🏼😄

[@matejlieskovsky9625]

Go for it, man! Let us know once you have a prototype?

[@pabloschulman4726]

As a brazilian, I'd love to see that. There was a project called Batalha de Mitos, but I think it folded. The artwork was awesome.

[@thiago.leal17]

I'm actually very interested, but I can't think of a viable way of keeping it going for years. You could extend to Urban legends as well, but it would still be limited. Well, perhaps my mind is limited and you already have a great idea in yours

[@pabloschulman4726]

@@thiago.leal17 I don't think one need to come up with new creatures in order to support a ccg... at any rate, if I were to create something based on brazilian folklore, I'd go for an assimetrical, one closed deck per character kind of thing

[@thiago.leal17]

@@pabloschulman4726 that's an interesting idea. But one would have to find a way to not turn it into another vanguard

[@StormriderVarskil1]

Nice vids. Definitely deserves a "7 More Deadly Sins... " series.

[@TheThirdGenQ]

Or seven virtues?

[@rewrose2838]

Early! Hey can you review Huntik? Also, can you review online card games like Kingdoms CCG or YuGiOh Duel Links?

[@fablemeboi8802]

I will always hold this series in high regards

[@23bcx]

I mean IMO banding is the most infamous mtg keyword not phasing.

[@CaptBackwards]

IDK I think phasing is really up there. I think more people are aware of phasing in comparison to branding.

[@23bcx]

@@CaptBackwards as someone who made an edh deck that's entire goal was to confuse ppl, I can tell you without a doubt banding gets more of a response from players than phasing. I have seen other ppl run phasing cards whereas I had to remove most banding cards from the deck as it was becoming an issue explaining it. Phasing means "before this card's controller's untap step this card either phases in or out. While it's phased out treat it like it's not there" Banding means "all cards with banding and up to one without act like one creature in combat, kinda. If you can block one you block the entire band and among the band it's controller assigns combat damage" I think

[@dragonlogos1]

So I didn’t know what either of these were (don’t play magic) so was looking it up and on the wiki under banding it says “Although some players claim to understand banding, in reality, almost no one does.” Given that this is not on the phasing page I am forced to agree with you.

[@prohobbyist5872]

Yugioh has keywords as well with the introduction psct. It is just less obvious

[@avee1210]

I feel a lot of people don’t realize just how helpful psct is

[@matheusaragao7640]

PSCT doesn't really involve keywords past "banish" or "piercing", and even then, it's sloppily added on to the existing card text. Most of Yu-Gi-Oh!'s PSCT rulings are so that the text follows a consistent structure to make it simpler to understand

[@qedsoku849]

Jetstream Matt “(Quick Effect):”, “Flip:”, “destroy”, “Tribute”, “Equip”, “material”, “linked”, “co-linked”, “negate”, “set”, “target”, basically every summoning method, and more are all keywords. They mean something specific that is different from what the words mean normally, and have rules attached to them. PSCT is full of generic keywords to describe parts of effects, rather than the keywords being effects themselves like in magic, where you see a keyword and maybe a cost or number attached.

[@matheusaragao7640]

@@qedsoku849 ???? most of these describe the actions by themselves. These are not keywords. How is material a keyword? Tributing has been in the game since the beggining. Equip? Negate? Set? These are all basic game mechanics.

[@qedsoku849]

Jetstream Matt In the same way “banish” is an action. Yugioh doesn’t have keywords that describe full effects, and it doesn’t have many that describe full activation conditions, but it has a lot that describe specific parts of effects, “material” refers to any monster used to summon an extra deck monster, monsters like “eater of millions” read “cannot be used as material for a __ Summon”.

[@LostInkwell]

I would love a follow-up video about Yu-Gi-Oh about reminder text and it's inclusion/exclusion in the card game.

[@ScionStorm1]

And their use of PSCT

[@goncaloferreira6429]

@@ScionStorm1 people praise the thing but it doesnt seem to have solved any problem.

[@ecassl2994]

@@goncaloferreira6429 It does.

[@JustJules250]

@@goncaloferreira6429 it solved a lot of problems actually. Look up Dzeef who has a whole series on old cards pre-PSCT with nonsensical/confusing ways to write effects. But outside of those extremes, there was general confusion on basic things like cost, if something targeted, etc. PSCT made things uniform in that regard so as long as you knew the "grammar" of the cards, you could work it out. After that the ruling confusion came from the effect and interactions themselves, rather than just the way they were written.

[@goncaloferreira6429]

@@ecassl2994 it seems people think yugioh ha s no problems and no confusion anymore. it gets me confused.but hey, its the world of yugioh.

[@BramLastname]

I love Duel Masters From a mechanics standpoint, Ignoring the stuff that's Japan exclusive. But still the basic premise is so good.

[@lancesmith8298]

And now, several years later, it’s kinda clear that Magic’s given up on new keywords being easily readable, at least as paper cards, three sets in a row. “Craft” is a mechanic that does have reminder text, but only because it is so complicated that every damn Standard card needs reminder text for every different take on it. “Collect evidence” is mercifully just a set of words and a number afterwards, but still a little more involved, and gives no hints as to how it works. And once Thunder Junction comes out, I feel so, so bad for every judge who has to explain what the rules for “committing a crime” is. Your keywords should not be three words long, or mistaken for an out of game action, or mistaken for a bad joke about Commander table dynamics

[@DrewskiTheLegend]

At this point they are just jamming one-off dumb keywords into the game to make hamfisted nods to the flavor of the card instead of using existing keywords to build top down flavor where possible and trusting their audience’s intelligence in deciphering them. I haven’t played any MKM limited because it’s the dumbest looking set ever, but it’s the whole descent/fathomless descend bs. Surely there is design space already explored with this without having to keyword 2 incredibly similarly keyworded mechanics in a set that already has at least 2 more new keywords already. And don’t get me started on cards that have a sentence as a keyword, for flavor alone… of course non-intuitive effects for those keywords, as you’re saying. It’s exhausting playing limited these days if you’re unfamiliar with the cards, so many words and it only increases the complexity for the less enfranchised player. The sets don’t even have a shelf life long enough to justify this complexity creep.

[@Troller235]

The Chad Yugioh commited nearly every sin and is still going strong

[@eavyeavy2864]

Less than Voldemort sins

[@noukan42]

No set rotation, no unmixable attributes, no life decking, use the asian standard card size (wich is A standard), does not require more than a deck and some coin, if anything to much reminder text. It commited just one lol. If anything commited many mistakes that were not part of the 7.

[@BomberTVx]

Ei man, I am currently working on a card game, I wonder if you would like to hear about it, give my advices or maybe even talk about it in one of your videos, it is currently very early in development, with basically a pen and paper prototype

[@dragonmaster613]

Is there a game that commits all seven sins?

[@tinkerermelon6599]

Life

[@harmlessdan]

Bakugan basically

[@ericgee6114]

I've heard a lot of discussion about how yugioh just avoids keywords all together. I could see this being in the follow up to this video. But definitely needs to be discussed

[@erickjr9]

It's weird that YGO actually seems like a common game, but once you analize it with other games, it basically follows a unique style of design

[@goncaloferreira6429]

@@erickjr9 are you saying it is special?

[@erickjr9]

@@goncaloferreira6429 I wouldn't say it isn't, but I think "Unique" works better

[@goncaloferreira6429]

@@erickjr9 trying to clarify since every game is unique.

[@erickjr9]

@@goncaloferreira6429 To some degree, everything is unique, but no one can say that most games have some kind of inspiration, mainly on Magic, while Yu-gi-oh took a different arguably more straightforward way, like the Final Fantasy to Magic's Dragon Quest or a Pokémon to Shin Megami Tensei comparison, not like it is necesarilly a better way, but it is more unique, atleast on the biggest TCG spectrum.

[@JettKuso]

This is one of the best series on game design I've ever watched. Absolutely incredible work.

[@brathering8644]

I like how weird yugioh keywords are, theres the psct, Toon, Tuner, Gemini etc and the symbols on the spell and trapcards.

[@melcasucre2971]

that's why PSCT is the best way to write effects-

[@Franciscomeirajr]

What's that?

[@adrisedona]

@@Franciscomeirajr Problem-Solving Card Text

[@JustJules250]

@@Franciscomeirajr it's for yugioh. Normalized all the ways to describe an effect and broke down condition, cost and effect in a sentence format that could be easily deciphered without relying on keywords/reminder text in the first place.

[@melcasucre2971]

@@Franciscomeirajr read yu gi oh cards

[@MrVovoda]

@@JustJules250 You could still rely on keywords on top of PSCT (which is a template to word card effects properly and should be a standard for any game really) so that you don't end up with bloated text. "Cannot be destroyed by battle" could be cut to "indestructible" or "cannot be targeted by card effect" could be "hexproof" (from Mtg). This would help toward reducing text on card because PSCT can be quite wordy.

[@DeconvertedMan]

bleeping yugioh needs bloody keywords, ah its so broken.

[@KingUnKaged]

Best way to dodge this sin is to just go the yugioh route and never ever use keywords, even when cards are going past 300 words, NO KEYWORDS, ALL TEXT IS REMINDER TEXT !!

[@icarus212001]

Nice touch using DQ VIII battle music in your description of keywords. Clearly you're a man of taste.

[@devonhilt9389]

Wrow, catching it the second it comes out. Nice

[@thefatgamer973]

Lol yugioh didn't have problem solving card text for half it's life. We just kept official judges in or basement back in the day

[@JKaiser994]

Having watching series it almost seems a miracle that yugioh survived as long as it did, like its not the same size as pokemon and MTG, it doesnt really do keywords (psct might possibly be the closest thing) in addition to others

[@alexanderdavis5776]

I know you are really only talking about physical card games in this video, but digital card games are a lot better than physical ones if there is no reminder text on it. You were talking about the physical card game of Lightseekers, how having no reminder text is bad, but in the digital version of it, it's actually a blesssing, as the reminder text can pop up to tell you what the card does. Anyway, this was great video nonetheless, and congrats on finishing on the "Seven Deadly Sins" series! It was a great ride all the way through.

[@vacamaspps]

Love the way you talk about card games, really going to miss this series...

[@MGDrzyzga]

Yeah, I feel like Yu-Gi-Oh is pretty bad about this. Examples: 1) "Inherent summon" is a fan-term that helps distinguish "yes, you can negate this summon" or "no, you cannot negate this summon," despite, you know, both cases being a card being summoned vs a card that negates summons. 2) Missing timing. The phrasing "When X, you can Y," "When X, Y," and "If X, you can Y" are very different, and only the first requires you to double check the order a series of events happens to see if it's valid. And the rulebooks in starter decks don't explicitly state that. 3) Reviving. Some cards have a unique summoning method (Fusion, Ritual, Synchro, Xyz, Link, Semi-Nomi.) If they end up in the Graveyard, they care that you check if they were summoned by their unique method first. Also, Semi-Nomi is an unofficial term. Also not in the rulebooks provided with starter decks. 4) Hard once per turn vs soft once per turn. This can be worse, since the wording of hard once per turn is changing. Basically, if you control 3 copies of the same card, can you use that effect 3 times, or once? If the answer is 3 times, you're also allowed to reuse it (potentially infinitely) if you remove it from the field and put it back on the field.

[@goncaloferreira6429]

one of the problems that yugioh has compared to mtg and pokemon is that it changed a lot through the years. the other games have a stronger base to build upon and have remained more consistent trough the years

[@prohobbyist5872]

None of this has to do with keywords.

[@MGDrzyzga]

@@prohobbyist5872 I was talking fan terms, which are unofficial keywords.

[@TheGoodOne1998]

Hard once per turn vs soft, it works like this, if the card says 'Once per turn' you can play other copies of the card during that turn(soft once per turn), 'Only once per turn' it the hard once per turn as the effect can only be used once per turn even with other copies of the card.

[@supersaiyanmikito]

I know people have been joking about Yugioh not really having keywords and a bible of text but the truth is, you can't really use keywords in Yugioh because every type of common effect is slightly different between cards. Like you can't turn negate into a keyword because you need to specify monster, spell and trap. You also need to specify if it negates the card being played or the effect being activated and you need to specify if the card is destroyed, banished or nothing at all. Some cards can also just target cards and negate them at will. At that point you might as well write the whole thing out. While PSCT may not do much to shorten text and can sometimes lengthen them, it also makes cards extremely literal. Cards do EXACTLY what the card says it does and nothing more.

[@ScionStorm1]

They do use terms such as Piercing, Banish, Quick Effect and Excavate.

[@goncaloferreira6429]

acepting change can be hard.

[@goncaloferreira6429]

this episode feels like it left many things out. why no mention of yugioh at all? the text vs simbols could also be further explored.

[@SaulGMV]

Well the video is about the use of reminder text around keywords. Can't really fail at that if you don't have that many keywords to begin with and most cards have relatively specific effects.

[@goncaloferreira6429]

@@SaulGMV fair, but in a larger discussion, that this series is about, contrasting things is imprtant as to give people an idea of all the ways things can be done and what might be the best to "your" card game.

[@SaulGMV]

@@goncaloferreira6429 I reckon you could argue that ygo does fall within the discussion of this video. The game started with cards explaining effects in general very specifically, and once experienced players were familiarized with the mecanics and keywords, the PSCT helped get rid of the pseudo-reminder text in order to focus on the way specific cards work. It was very sketchy, most likely not intentional and could definetely be better, but it is pretty much the same process that was discussed in this video.

[@Zerato]

And then yugioh shows up saying fuck that noise and still continues to be a top game

[@oneinfinity]

Funny thing: When you showed off a bunch of cards at 4:41 to show how Magic uses reminder text on new mechanics to be able to leave it out in subsequent sets, the Golgari Thug with the reminder text for the Dredge mechanic is actually a reprint released years after the mechanic first showed up, while your example without the reminder text, Golgari Grave-Troll, was printed just like this in the first set the ability showed up in.

[@trondordoesstuff]

in Hearthstone, you can get reminder text on any keyword by hovering over it and yet they still chose to replace "Enrage" with just its reminder text. also partially Echo, and arguably Overkill...

[@alexanderkosten7611]

The Hearthstone designers have this weird obsession with making keywords COMPLETELY set- or season-specific, with only a few exceptions: keywords like Rush and Discover that have essentially replaced old text, Rush having replaced "Charge, but cannot attack heroes this turn" (a wording that is technically still available in Wild, and can be used for screwball combo setups Rush can't do) and Discover having displaced a lot of draw/generation effects that didn't give any direct control. They're also very slow to introduce any keywords into classes they didn't originate in. These two decisions, in hindsight, have probably contributed to the game's near-total collapse over the past year, as the dev team's obsession with introducing at least one new keyword per set gave rise to unprecedentedly meta-destroying cards like Questlines (or rather, the about 3-4 specific ones that are Tier 1, and the rest are kinda meh), or ones that are just janky to use like Frenzy and Tradeable.

[@confettius]

One thing - when MTG gains new keyword it (for most of the time) have reminder text only on Common and Uncommon cards - Rares and Mithic Rares rarely use reminder texts even for new keywords.

[@fernandobanda5734]

This was true a while back. It's very very rare to see a card with a new block keyword that doesn't have reminder text. It only happens when the card is craving for text space.

[@smileywarhead5178]

Next you should do the 10 Commandments of Game Design

[@OwlBeef]

I don’t understand any of this nor why I watched it and liked it

[@Closer2Zero]

Lightseekers was so cool, it really was, but holy fuck did it die before i could get into it. Id love to hear about its history, its rise, and why it fell

[@NotaPlagueDoctor300]

Exactly bro

[@zearcjustice7837]

yugioh got the 8 sin : HIDDEN RULES

[@chrismiller3548]

Yugioh: you get banish and piercing, but thats it

[@alejandrox345]

pendulum does not need reminder text WHEN IT IS THE BEST DECK LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO

[@Yous0147]

If you want to know the cardinal sin of TCG's beyond anything that is related to design, I'd say it's the monetization scheme that has been the industry standard since MTG began. I honestly think, beyond some of these game design flaws, that the expectation from a regular player to put 100+ dollars into your game every few months or so quite ridiculous, especially with how you as a game tend to reward them with any lack of reliance.

[@shawnjavery]

Not really. For a new game its quite a lot yeah, but once you get a player base it's not unreasonable for people to be incentivized to spend money on new cards. There should be budget options of course but you need some chase cards to sell product after all.

[@Yous0147]

@@shawnjavery I guess we can agree to disagree then. I love card games, but even if one was modestly well off I'd say that the cost and investment you'd have to put into a game like that, besides just wrapping your head around the meta, is beyond anything that most games can reasonably expect. The biggest problem is how the cards designs are shaped by this system. It's just inherently made so that you have a mountain load of unusable toss cards no one uses for anything besides the occasional proxy back, and then you have the pool or couple of cards that actually constitute a playable part of the game, that's not even considering chase cards or meta defining ones that in turn makes those obselete in a more competitive setting. The design of the cards tend to follow the money stream, and so power creep ends up being the core mechanism by which to innovate, which is sadly something you see has defined all of the big 3 lately too. 1 card game that doesn't do this and is actually doing really well is legends of Runeterra, and you see periodically lots of hearthstone and MTG players migrate to there for some of these reasons.

[@shawnjavery]

@@Yous0147 I mean this from the point of view of a company, you can have a successful game be pricey and still be successful, although that's a terrible idea for the start of a game, but needing to buy new decks to keep up isn't a problem for the game. So long as the cards out of most people's reach aren't too good, being necessary to compete on a competitive level, a card game can survive. Time investment is often the prohibitive aspect for people, not money. A game where the format is massively shaken up every pack doesn't sound too bad, although if literally every deck was power crept it'd be annoying.

[@Yous0147]

@@shawnjavery That's fair, I agree that you can have a game be pricey without problem so long as you target that demographic, so long as you understand that it pricier it is the more niche the game will be and the more of the overall market you'll be carving it in favor of that. I wasn't so much talking about the price tag by itself, It's moreso the kinds of monetization schemes that follow the example of making over-performing chase cards, selling them through booster boxes at a time, and then banning them right before the next set hits, flooding the game with literally useless cards, paper that will never be used just to prop up sales. And that's just one example, the whole industry is rife with deliberate control and manipulation of a cards supply and demand to maximise profits. The problem is that this is a short sighted system, and only works if you're so succesful that your bloated beyond simple failure, likely because of the intense love some players have for the game and entirely on that alone, instead of actual good will and a fair and good fostering of relationship between the game and the players. You end up with a game that only has whales and collectors, and you lose the people that simply can't afford to play, let alone those that don't have the mental space for it. Time is a different problem entirely from this, that's something every game has to content with, but these kinds of problems I touched upon stem from the kind of ways TCG's have been marketed and sold.

[@shawnjavery]

@@Yous0147 Yeah there's a lot of waste but I don't think having chase cards is a bad thing since they sell product. I'm not too familiar with MTG but do they really ban newly released cards a few months after the release? In yugioh there's strong cards printed that warp the format all the time but they rarely ever ban a card before a year or so after its release . The only times they have done it was when a deck was so strong that it took 90% of top cut at an event, with the deck still being the strongest deck of the format after the hits, and some very degenerate cards getting banned 6 months or so after release, which are typically not archetype important cards, but are generically strong.

[@schlockfather]

Dude Rampage is an awesome mechanic. It's simple, if only one dude blocks a dude with rampage then the rampage guy is chill. For every dude blocking after that, the rampage guy flips shit for each dude blocking.

[@the40inchtaco]

Phasing is probably Magic's most infamous keyword. Banding: Am I a joke to you?

[@ereshkigalvandrekkenov5657]

Islandhome, Horsemanship, Fortify and 9 others would like to know your location

[@cutecommie]

@@ereshkigalvandrekkenov5657 Those are all pretty understandable.

[@HenshinFanatic]

​@@cutecommie yeah, horsemanship is just Flying but different.

[@GodzillaFreak]

Bands with other 😅

[@brittanynguyen3794]

LET’S GO!!! COMMON SENSE!

[@thomasalvarenga2839]

I think Lightseekers should have used vanished for the Burn term.

[@admiralcasperr]

Magics reminder text at most "explains" how the keyword "works". It is a short _reminder_ of what the keyword does, but it is not rules text and it doesn't explain the keywords very well. To the point where some reminder texts are plain wrong if considwring theor consequences.

[@xXUltaMattXx]

Magic stops putting reminder text on extended art and special variants of cards, the regular printings will still quite often have the uncommon keywords abilities described on them.

[@sharingheart13]

Deadly Sin #8 - Assuming that avoiding the seven deadly sins of TCG design means your game must be good.

[@imperiallegionnaire8344]

(regardless of position)

[@NikolajLepka]

The Sorcery TCG is notorious for not having any reminder text.... constantly having to reference the rulebook is not fun lmao

[@deadlypandaghost]

Nah Pokemon's rules have changed a pretty good amount, at least compared to Yugioh/MTG. For instance they made a few minor changes to battle rewards mechanics and completely redid type weakness. Compared to say mtg and yugioh which have mostly changed by adding new types of cards.

[@0penthaughtz]

When I was developing my card game, I just looked up other cards online and just took notes from other cards texts, without even thinking about it. Now I see with keywords, I made the right call.

[@Yous0147]

I think with Keywords the golden rules should be to add reminder text if the card has room for it, otherwise just have the Keyword alone. It's very intuitive why, if the card has room for it there's little to no harm in actually adding a reminder, and it facilitates easy transition and learning, but if a card is so text-heavy that it doesn't have room for it, then the card is probably more complex and not aimed at beginners, so the keyword is sufficient and doing its task of condensing information. That said, I actually disagree with the notion that keywords always need reminder texts, but I do think it helps a great deal in this regard.

[@polocatfan]

sorry but I'm not gonna lug around a 100 page book listing every single keyword just in case my opponent plays the scrimblo mechanic from 10 years ago. that's a very unreasonable ask.

[@endtimestcg5146]

Reminder TEXT CHECK! 5:10 LOVE THE ORCISH HELLRAISER! MY CARD! Loved to play Empty the Warrens in Standard with those seethings songs...back in 2008!

[@feliciaamore1105]

"What do you think the keyword burn means on this card?" So i paused this video to try to guess. First instinct is that it's a status ailment infliction indicator, but i quickly notice it has no obvious target, Which implies it's probably self referential. Like burn the card itself, can't use it again. So I'm gonna say it means it goes to a discard+ area? Like how exile vs. Graveyard works in magic. A stronger harder to interact with play zone. I'm not confident in this answer, Maybe i just don't understand how targeting works within this game, But it's a pretty weird answer, so I'm gonna stick with it. As it will look incredibly hilarious if I'm wrong xD Edit:"can not be removed from graveyard once there." I guess i was kinda right. But like.. I fully understand your point regardless, I shouldn't have been right. My first instinct was that it was an offensive keyword, and most Experienced card game players probably would think that too. I lucked into some degree of accuracy, i could've just as easily misunderstood. the card has 3 freaking words on it, some reminder text would've gone a huge distance in clarification there.