CAN YOU USE FORCE TO REMOVE SOMEONE FROM YOUR PROPERTY?

[@R005t3r]

On this point, the Americans have it right. "You walk out or be carried out, your call."

[@carmichaelmoritz8662]

Yes carried out to the Bush or river lol

[@Kelvinkid100]

@R005t3r I have said before to problematic people that their actions will dictate my response.If spoken with a calm demeanor, and can depend on who you are dealing with, will send a very cold chill down their spine.I have seen it work extremely well in the past.

[@ChelleLlewes]

Yup.

[@muskokamike127]

@@carmichaelmoritz8662 Here in Canada: me: Don't call the police. The left: who you going to call then? me: buddies, and tell them to bring shovels. A friend of mine said it best: I have a backhoe and 100 acres.

[@Mobly5009]

On your property. I’m a believer of‘your the king ‘ meaning use whatever means “necessary “

[@dspears666]

Your beliefs aren’t the law

[@Highspade]

That attitude is how delivery drivers and people knocking on your door for help get shot. So short sighed.

[@Sarando1]

What is a proportional force response exactly? That is the $64000 question. Self defense needs to be more important than a criminals rights. Castle laws and stand your ground needs to be added into our rights as Canadians.

[@Fishy-i2g]

Then do something about it instead of yapping. The reason things are not changing is because those that demand and expect change (you) are wholly unwilling to take the task upon yourselves. If YOU want change, YOU NEED TO CHANGE. Otherwise you are part of the problem.

[@doktormcnasty]

To what degree, though? I mean if someone refuses to leave and they do nothing more than smack away your hands when you try to physically remove them but other than that don't assault you, for example what extend of force do you want to be allowed in your Castle Laws? 1) Physically attacking them with hands, fists, and feet? 2) Stabbing them? 3) Tasering them? 4) Shooting them? 5) ? Is there any limit or Castle law for you means the second someone is considered to be trespassing (for example) you have zero limits on what you're allowed to do at that point?

[@PunchBuggyDreams]

@@Fishy-i2g Hey lay off will ya? We can do something about it but we (Canadians) have to wait a whole year before we can vote to do just that.

[@Kelvinkid100]

I do agree that the law when it comes to self-defense is extremely vague and, in my opinion, needs to be simplified.My biggest concern is that with the law being as vague as it is, it puts the general public at great risk because if someone is confronted with a very dangerous situation they will hesitate and as most would agree a situation like that could become fatal.So as most people can see that we have a huge problem that can longer be ignored.

[@smcdonald9991]

Here in Qc all you ever hear is criminals rights. No one cares about the victims.

[@PunchBuggyDreams]

I still don't get what proportionate force means. If someone in your home attacks you with a knife, then you can attack back with your own knife? So what if the trespasser incapacitates you or kills you because they're better at using one than you, what did equal force do for you then? Our self defense laws are such a gray area and does pretty much nothing for the innocent victims.

[@lougarou8431]

You enter my home uninvited and pose a threat, you essentially forfeited your right to be part of the society. I have a family that is relying on me to protect them, too bad for them.

[@firstlast476]

​@lougarou8431 we all know what we would do. but he's asking what the courts will think. he's worried about his future and criminal charges.

[@nkcommunitypatrolwatch7965]

Revised self defence paws in canada no longer rest on proportional response like the old laws did. Now its “reasonable” force. As a 6 foot 200 lbs guy it may not be reasonable that i defend an attack by fist from a 5’1” 100 lbs female with a golf club. However if i was a 5’2” 110 lbs woman then it is more reasonable.

[@BawkBawkBawk666]

​@@firstlast476it doesn't matter what the courts think. The courts are for the after, not the now

[@JohnDoe-fo7yi]

I just finished making a comment on that : its impossible to judge proportionality without considering the consequences of losing the fight/encounter. Bar scuffle between two poorly coordinated people that are just pissed because one spilled a drink on the other? Yeah, maybe even if you lose that fight, you'll be sore be you'll be fine. A man made death threats to you for months and then is discovered to have broken into your home, but is unarmed. Considering the death threats, I'd pull a knife at a minimum against them. I hope they cover "anticipated consequences" in a future video. Its touchy because you then need to establish why you thought that, but still...otherwise its like leveling the playing field for an intruder!?

[@Matt-d8m]

Criminals armed with automatic guns Canadians armed with iPhones and rape whistles Sounds unreasonable to me

[@paulk9056]

Canadian laws and law enforcement want a country of SIMPS. Most Canadians can get a pizza delivered faster than get law enforcement help. It is easier to get out of jail than a cemetery.

[@carmichaelmoritz8662]

It's strange how the cops can violently arrest someone that doesn't comply , and yet they expect us not to defend ourselves against someone that's trespassing and refusing to leave or is trying to rob us.

[@muskokamike127]

@@carmichaelmoritz8662 and if you DO defend yourself, they'll arrest YOU.

[@carmichaelmoritz8662]

@@muskokamike127 only if they believe they can prove it. I've never once been arrested for defending myself or defending my property. They say either get good at it or quit! edit, actually I have been arrested for defending myself , it was verbal defense. The system claims a verbal defense is a threat. It seems like the injustice system doesn't like it when you give someone a warning , they like it when you act out on it. Every time I acted out I had a mask and gloves on lol. Bad people force me to do bad things.

[@muskokamike127]

@@carmichaelmoritz8662 I haven't either, but too many news articles of people getting arrested for defending their home and property. Even themselves.

[@carmichaelmoritz8662]

@@muskokamike127 that's exactly why I live out in the country. No trouble making witnesses. And the trespassers probably have a criminal record and their word cannot be used in a court of law as credible. Never admit up to it to a cop or in a court of law , Always plea not guilty and wear a mask and gloves when defending yourself or your property.

[@sureshot8399]

I think it is fair to say that most Canadians likely have a better understanding of US laws than those of their own country. It is therefore much appreciated to have this sort of channel available as the differences could make the difference between jail and no arrest at all. Thanks for posting these Mike.

[@mcnugget9999]

160% agree

[@muskokamike127]

1) the police's mindset is to arrest someone, anyone 2) if you do anything to protect your home or property, you'll prob be arrested 3) remember the cop in toronto who said, in public, leave your keys by the front door to make it easier for criminals to steel your car? I had it out with a cop on twitter. him: cops can't be everywhere me: so we should have the right to defend ourselves without fear of arrest by police. We shouldn't bend over and let criminals have their way. cop: no car is worth your life. me: it isn't my life, if the criminal thinks the car is worth their life, who am I to argue?

[@ImpulseToAdrenaline]

The law should be black and white, not grey where it becomes interpreted.

[@PaulHodgson-gm6lg]

how would we keep lawyers employed?

[@ericwhitlam7517]

Something like the person getting the boot should be black and blue?

[@Wickenden1969]

We need Castle Law. Full stop. We also need some flexibility around FAFO. We all know you can get Amazon faster than help from 911

[@Fishy-i2g]

It does not matter what you think we "need". What matters is what YOU plan on doing to get the things you say we need? If you want change, YOU NEED TO CHANGE.

[@DubyaWDubya]

​@@Fishy-i2g congratulations on the stupidest response ever. Grow up and open your eyes.

[@carmichaelmoritz8662]

The injustice system workers do not want us to protect ourselves against them when they wrongfully arrest us and assault us and that's why this law will never change

[@deerango69]

@@DubyaWDubya Thanks Dude. I was going to give a similar Reply to the Fishy-i2g. Fishy-i2g sounds like an STD. 😉😄 Or maybe Fishy-i2g thinks he's some kind of Yoda spreading his words of wisdom. And I'll stop there before I start to get rude. I'll hazard a guess that Fishy-i2g voted for Kamala. 😆 Cheers. help stamp out Stupidity.

[@JohnDoe-fo7yi]

I don't understand why it is the way it is. I'm 100% certain that if you did a referendum on castle doctrine in Canada, it would pass with a super majority. I dont know why prosecutors and politicians feel we needed to prosecute people for protecting themselves. That being said, castle doctrine goes a little too far in some states. I remember this one encounter where a couple (in both senses of the word) of thieves entered a home in the states and the owner was an elderly man that was home. He pulled his gun and started firing. Both thieves started running for the exits, yelling that they were leaving. The woman even begged not to be shot. The owner ran outside and shot her in the back and killed her as she was begging for her life. I think its enough to "do anything you need to protect yourself from harm, within reason". If you see that they are running away, the threat to your person maybe doesn't warrant firing on an unarmed, running thief. They are assholes and I hate thieves, but slaughtering people is whole other ballgame.

[@randylahey7343]

When I was a kid we had a lot of break ins in our area, my dad is old school and raised me to be the same. He almost caught a thief on our property, the thief would not have fared well, my dad told the cop that he almost had him, cop looked him right in the eye and told my dad that if you do catch him make sure that your story is that you were attacked and feared for your life, otherwise you could be the one going to jail. I’m 54 now but I’ve never forgotten that lesson. In my 20s I had an attempted break in, I caught them in the act, it didn’t go well for the thief, my wife stayed inside with the dog. I didn’t call the police after but if they had of shown up my story would been that I heard noises outside, went out to investigate and was attacked. My word against theirs at that point. On another note if you were to go outside it would make sense to have a flashlight with you, those aluminum mag lights are heavy and it would be hard to call them a weapon. Just sayin.

[@bosvarkutube]

Thank you for explaining Canada’s utterly lame laws 👍🏻 the problem is usually that people on your farm that don’t belong there are there to cause trouble not to be polite or be reasonable

[@R1Kyle]

OH wait, you come at a police officer with your hands maybe trying to hurt him how does he react. Oh that is right he only meets you with like force multiplied by 9mm's to keep proportionality! The guy that was trespassing on my property and breaking into buildings had a manchette strapped to his back. Self defense laws in this country are messed up.

[@muskokamike127]

cops and politicians: we have to be able to defend ourselves! us: same as us then cops and politicians: NO NO NO NO you cannot! Criminal's lives matter more than yours!

[@SwordFishRiver]

If my family I are home when someone breaks in, there will be hell to pay. Breaking in when someone is home is a threat. As the saying goes, "Rather be judged by a jury later than to be carried by 6."

[@ShawnHCorey]

You keep using the term "common sense". But when people get angry, common sense goes out the window.

[@TroyQwert]

"Common sense is not that common".

[@TheOverproof151]

Best No Trespassing sign I've seen.... Keep Out. Last Warning. We have a backhoe and lots of land.

[@WatchingTrainsGoBy-PassingTime]

I'm of the mindset that this "proportional" thing is bs... we should be allowed to use MORE force by a lot to stop someone once they begin attacking us. I realize this is about defending property rights, but in general I hate that the burden always seems to be on the person being attacked, abused, or violated, to be "mature" or "reasonable" about situations that are neither of those things and our lives might be in danger. THE ENTIRE SITUATION IS ALREADY NOT PROPORTIONAL when you're attacked. You were being non-violent and someone attacks you, HOW is that proportional from the very beginning? lol If you're doing nothing, 0, and the other attacks you, he isn't at zero so our response should not be an eye for an eye at all... We should absolutely be able to become even more aggresive and use greater force as the innocent victim especially when we're already at a disadvantage. The problem is that most places, especially in Canada are far too subjective and play the, LET'S TRY TO BE FAIR people when it's absolutely unfair to the victims and constantly tries to put us on a level playing field with criminals and violent people... That is entirely a childish mentality and puts us at great disadvantage. Because as the victims, we're expected to be more reasonable and rational for both of us than is realistic, just because we may have to face a jury or judge that is more concerned with balancing some bs cosmic scale than ALLOWING US TO PROTECT OURSELVES. OUR LAWS SHOULD MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT IF YOU FAFO WITH PEOPLE THAT DON'T DESERVE IT, YOU SHOULD PAY THE PRICE FOR THAT ON THE STREET, IN OUR HOMES, AS WELL AS, IN THE COURT ROOM. Putting the burden on the victims is not proportional or fair to begin with. Having to worry about how much force we're allowed to use puts us as innocents, at great disadvantage. It's way past time that we removed that burden from people in Canada.

[@devonopdendries7722]

What I don't understand is that if someone is on your property, and you want them to leave, and they don't, how equal force somehow is important despite them already being in the wrong by refusing to leave in the first place. It's like, "please leave." "no". "...oh well, since you said no and didn't push me, I can't physically make you leave because that's escalation." How can you not escalate the situation when they refuse to leave?

[@seafire7701]

I looked up trespass in Canada. In daylight it's a tort (a civil wrong giving right of action). However, in the hours of darkness, trespass is criminal. Hmm.

[@firstlast476]

🧐🧐 interesting. makes sense. but also doesn't. criminals are on the clock 24/7 😂

[@ChelleLlewes]

The entire problem with words like, "proportional," or, "reasonable," is that they are not clearly defined! Two different judges (never mind juries!!!) will interpret those words completely differently! So here's my solution: come on my property at your own risk. It's your life, and you get to determine how short it will be. Let the judges argue about that. There's no death penalty, I would get free room and board for as long as His Majesty desires to pay for me, and since it's Canada, I'll be out in two years or less with a pension.

[@ryanossevorth3705]

Common sense is to keep a big stick by your door. Finding out that as a Canadian and to be able to protect yourself and your property is to be a lawyer or take the beatings and let people take whatever they want and then take them to court in order to not be charged as a criminal for protecting yourself or protecting your property.

[@carmichaelmoritz8662]

Most criminals wear a mask , when self defense turns us into criminals make sure you wear a mask when defending your property

[@muskokamike127]

I keep a boom stick. google "stevens 320 security"

[@GWW-o1f]

This channel has become "iconic".. is a Canadian Icon.

[@ThinkingDoesMakeMeImportant]

Keep in mind that for a person to become a lawyer. They must first pledge their allegiance to the province.Before you the defendant

[@Mr.Doug-j8u]

The last resort for any situation should be to call police. Do not call police if you are concerned about someone's well-being.

[@Warsie-Fan]

Personal story for the masses,... a crazy ex of mine walked right into my house after a day of court over something else that happened between us. She was not happy with the outcome. I ordered her to leave and she replied with a NO. I very firmly grabbed her by her wrists and dragged her out of the house. She bite me drawing blood. There was some light bruising on her wrists after struggling with me. She was charged in the end.

[@grndiesel]

In Canada?? I'm shocked. But glad the law landed on your side.

[@Warsie-Fan]

@grndiesel Yep, in Canada. Maybe her biting me was the exception, who knows? 🤷‍♂️

[@lougarou8431]

Ouff, you got lucky. Most of the time the man gets charged with assault and it takes months and a lot of money to get to the truth. By then your out of pocket a ton of money with little chance of recovering it from the person that assaulted you.

[@firstlast476]

this might not work in every jurisdiction. it's better to phone services so it's on record id say. if no cell phone/ring camera. unless you can afford a great lawyer.

[@Warsie-Fan]

@firstlast476 I called 911 and spoke to the operator as it was happening in real time.

[@CheekyTyke007]

I would always call the Police just to support that I was acting reasonably and then render first aid to the person/s who refused to leave. Been there done that, didn’t get charged and when he woke up in hospital the next day he apologized to me and thanked me for giving him first aid and a blanket after I put him to sleep.

[@user-zr6pl6nb6z]

I'm going to file this under "Things that never happened".

[@VeganGirl.]

That’s awesome.

[@Hallucitania]

Well, if I ask someone to leave and I'm not "permitted" to remove them if they disagree..., these laws don't exactly help me defend my home. In Canada, we have the right to doll out strong letters. Thank you for the video.

[@Fishy-i2g]

You have no Rights because YOU have done nothing to secure those Rights.

[@streamingnowstreamingnow2568]

“Leave or you’ll Never Leave.”

[@donnicholson3170]

Proportion force is a joke. Unless both parties are professional fighters there is no such thing as proportioal force. When a fight starts amongst people who don't fight on the regular the adrenalin takes over and then you're in a fight for your life because you don't know how to fight.

[@PaulKriger]

Mike. Respect your videos and masticated explanation for ordinary people. As a canadian citizen I only can say that we need implement in Canada Stand your ground law and Castle Doctrine.

[@PunchBuggyDreams]

I fully approve your opinion. Hear, hear!

[@tundrusphoto4312]

The problem is that "proportionality" as a concept isn't well defined and depending on the police officer and the Crown in the area, a person may or may not be charged. It is the variability of the circumstances and the personal interpretation that create the demand for an absolute right to defend without any reference to what was appropriate in the circumstances.

[@m.stewart7208]

Well said.

[@Fishy-i2g]

You will get that Right to self defense when you are willing to give up everything to get it. Until then, your opinion has no real world value.

[@carmichaelmoritz8662]

A trespasser is a criminal , a criminal's words will not hold up in court. Plea not guilty until the trespasser is convicted and meanwhile if they find you guilty take it back to court after the trespasser has a criminal conviction. The crown says a criminal's word is circumstantial evidence and cannot be used for a conviction.

[@jamesready5]

Revamped to make user friendly for judges and jury….i think it needs to be revamped to be user friendly for the potential victims ya? Even if you’ve bothered to read the code and case law before hand, weighing “proportionality” against a number of factors in the few seconds you might have to make life changing decisions is completely nuts.

[@kyleme9697]

Always interesting ... thank you.

[@thomasborger6548]

Now yous cant leave

[@flatroc1]

Never call police on a trespasser. You are only complicating the situation. As Alberta's past Premier Ralph Kline once said, "shoot, shovel and shut up ! "

[@brucebeasley2583]

He was talking about mad cow disease, not trespassers.

[@trepaning]

always informative

[@pakoolafaloopa69]

I'd just like to know that if someone refuses your request to leave the property, if they are then considered to be a trespasser, or indeed trespassing. That is my understanding.

[@ryancormack6934]

Great topic. More relatable than some of the drunk driving topics.

[@FactsFirst-yo8gc]

Some basic research of the Canadian Criminal code would help many people out here. Then read the associated case law for those codes. Case law is how the Crim code is interpreted by judges and JP,s Start with sections 25, 26, 27 and 35, also since trespass has been mentioned here multiple times take a look at your relevant Provincial Trespass Legislation.

[@longhaul3586]

Excellent excellent very helpful very honest suggestions 🙂

[@RomeoSixSix]

Canada is the country of victims!

[@firstlast476]

alberta has been getting closer to stand your ground laws. i think it should be canada wide. criminals know the law better than a home invasion victim

[@crashandburngaming5103]

Yes hopefully. The crime rate here is skyrocketing. In Edmonton taking the LRT is like rolling the dice with your life, especially at night. I have a Byrne LE because where I live is getting sketchier even in broad daylight. Cheers

[@denisnadeau865]

I work in security. People are rarely opened to common sense when you point out to them that they are trespassers. If they had common sense, they would not trespass in the first place. Mostly, they are pissed at being caught in the act or even argue with you that they "have the right to be there." Sometimes, I feel like I waste 10 minutes talking to a 4 years old. Then I have to call the police if they don't leave...

[@danmac1871]

Totally accurate. I live off grid, anyone entering my property knows that they are at risk. By law. Common law. Including police and civil authorities.

[@ironDsteele]

You can do what you like it all depends on who finds out about it.

[@777poco]

Calling the cops sometimes is a waste of time unless the reason is life threatening

[@The_Zilli]

Posted the day after the US Election - most interesting timing. Can't say I blame you that thought is on my mind as well, oh wait, you're talking about Canadian Law, ah sure you are *winnk wink* Keep up the good info like always.

[@malcolmchevrier6866]

What a dumpster fire for Canadian citizens. Who decides what defines "the least amount of force possible" or "proportional?" I prefer to ask an unwanted guest to leave and should they refuse, I would tell them to leave. Should the demand be ignored, the logical next step is to make them leave and I would not be handcuffed by someone else's idea of how that plays out. First you get asked, second time you get told, third time you get forced.

[@canadianfreepress]

Thank you! Even tho I knew most of this. Its great to be reminded. Do you think one day we will be allowed to carry guns and given more rights to carry protection and protect ourselves and property?

[@muskokamike127]

1:22 COULD be charged? The default by police is you WILL be charged. "use the least amount of force necessary" the problem is, they see "racking a pump shotgun" as violence even though there is no force applied, and for the most part, anyone with half a brain complies with your request. If the trespasser or criminal leaves and calls the police, you WILL be arrested and charged with brandishing a firearm even though: a) no crime was committed b) a crime was prevented c) no one was injured. The FBI in the US estimates that 4M crimes are prevented by the non-violent use of a firearm. IMO this is the perfect scenario. If someone ignores the racking of the shotgun, and continues, then that is on them. They decided that their life is worth less than whatever it is they are trying to achieve. The problem is, in Canada, the courts and judges value the life/lives of criminals over law abiding citizens.

[@thefringeminorityreport4797]

I ha e with zero repercussions. I live in rural Sask. Police response typically 45min to 2 hours. If at all.

[@JxH]

"You could be charged..." Reminds me of, "We could be sued." I had an argument with a co-worker about the appropriate course of action. He said that "we could be sued" if we took my advice. I explained that anyone can sue anyone for any, or even no, reason. He disagreed. So I sued him. Edit to add: It's a joke. Sorry that wasn't clear to some. I would have thought that it being sort-of funny would have made that obvious.

[@Islandwaterjet]

Bullshit story. You did not sue him. Given the complexity and cost of litigation in this country guaranteed you did nothing.

[@gmanbman5660]

It's only illegal if you get caught.

[@bennettmusiccollective3218]

So a guy gets drunk at a party I’ve thrown. He gets out of line with his mouth. I ask him to leave. He declines. I then tell him I’m going to gently remove him. He uses equal force to resist. I increase my force to achieve my aim of his removal. He again resists. Now what? Do I now appeal to his sense of fair play or say “time out” and call the cops? Knowing I’ve essentially escalated it the whole time.

[@deefective1100]

This is the grey area when it comes to self defence in Canadian law. It all depends on the situation, when is it appropriate to use force. And how much force? Im I required to decide on the spot or call my lawyer to give me an answer? Defend your life and let the courts sort it out.

[@youtubecensorseverythingIsay]

Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6

[@carmichaelmoritz8662]

Like they say do it right or don't do it at all. I would rather not be tried by 12 or carried by 6

[@shawnkelly1357]

Without wandering too far into the weeds here, and while I wouldn't dream of challenging the word to a Criminal Defense attorney, and as my training as a Paralegal pales by comparison, I do have a problem with the use of weapons like a gun or knife as mentioned a couple of times. The key point is proportionality, and if someone became aggressive and gave you reason to believe that an assault is imminent I would be fine with offering to introduce the assailant to my friend Mr Louisville Slugger and see if they can be a little more persuasive, lest they feel the kinetic dynamics from the business end of my friend. Cops don't like people with guns and will spare no effort whether legitimate or not, to take the guns away and haul you down town for questioning (You're not in Florida, and the Sheriff will not side with you). Guns and Ammo have to be locked away separately, both unloaded and properly secured, as per the Firearms Act requirements. You had better not have a gun in your pocket, waist band or a holster in anticipation of trouble, and heaven forbid if you were to take it out and point the gun at the bad guy, to threaten them or shoot them, as the Crown Prosecutor will make your life a living hell; the CFO ( Chief Firearms Officer) will revoke your permit, the cops will seize your guns, and the courts will bankrupt you by forcing you to spend a fortune defending yourself, and in the end even if you do win, you still lost big time. If you own a gun just keep it at the range, and if you have trouble with someone, just whip out your phone and call the cops, and if you're afraid they wont respond fast enough, Id probably lie to the dispatcher and claim there's a blazing gun battle between two rival gangs right outside your house, that will surely cut their coffee break short at the local Tim Hortons. If you're in Toronto, as gun play is increasingly common these days, you'll get them even faster. The Firearms Act sucks big time, and believe me I hate it too, but the trouble you can find yourself in will leave you to wonder who is the bad guy is, and why are you being victimized twice, first by the bad guy and now the system. The cops are not your friends, this is not the USA, we don't have a Castle Doctrine (I wish we did), and the laws surrounding self defense in Canada are a joke in my opinion. If you do find yourself in such circumstance and a gun is used, while I can't give advice because I'm not licensed, but for me Id be tempted not to call 911 (you better call Saul instead) , but instead just shoot, shut up and shovel (If you want to go Pulp Fiction on this guy), or better yet just call the best Criminal Defense Attorney you can afford if you wish to fight this in the courts, just Mortgage the house, show him the money and they'll do the rest. Oh yeah and hide the guns, STFU and refuse to cooperate except through your Lawyer, and still refuse to surrender your guns, at least Id be tempted to. If you chose to run instead, be sure to see Dostoyevski's Crime & Punishment and decide if its worth the trouble of trying to pull off the perfect crime.

[@GWW-o1f]

A problem with the law that one can remove an alledged "trespasser".. : I could specify places in Canada but I'll leave that out.. this had happened to me maybe 6 times in the last few years.. a security guard is "suspicious" of how you look or they have emotional motives.. (not knowing the security guard act) and they randomly state that a shopper is "trespassing" and tell them to leave.. then they become aggressive. I've experienced that they become aggressive and call police without giving a person time to leave.. or on "private property" that's operated by a crown corporation.. they may have that same motive, begin a discussion.. then randomly say "LEAVE NOW, YOU ARE TRESPASSING".. then call the police while harassing and chasing. I've even been assaulted by a security guard in that way. In my mind.. in that situation.. a person is NOT TRESPASSING. If it's a place where the public can be.. I'll state "oh.. I wasn't aware". To me.. there must be knowing intention to unlawfully be on property or to have caused some disturbance or illegal activity. People becoming angered in Canada if accidently trespassing on.. say a field.. is bunk. If I am unintentionally trespassing.. or they just make up "trespassing" ans they touch me. I want them charged. But police won't. Just saying.. in some provinces.. people abuse that to act aggressive and "feel power". How about where one can use force to some extent to take back their own property (item/possession). IE: a guy steals your item x.. you go to take it back.. or you walked away from it.. that take it.. you then see they have it.. you know that took it.. they know they took it. You CAN take that back.. I believe by "as much force as necessary".. like.. you CAN "wrestle" it out if their possession. CAN one "fight" them? As in a "mutual fight"? Like.. if "mugged".. you could go and tackle said guy/mugger and rwtrice the item.

[@b1laxson]

"shopper" would mean being on private property. Shopping malls aren't public property like a park is. A mall or store gives an "invitation to do business" which can be withdrawn like when staff, of which security is one type, asks you do leave. Just because the public can enter doesn't make it public property like a park or sidewalk. The mall and stores are the same as your own living room: private property. First level of force is verbal aka "leave". Refusing means doing anything other than leaving including arguing. Since the person of interest isn't leaving from verbal it is legit for a physical contact like a push to be used. "Accidental trespassing" is still trespassing and if it is accidental a reasonable response is to leave immediately not argue which then allows a legal escalation for touch. The court also has the argument that any violence that took place was because of the trespassing. Had the trespass not occurred no violence would have been needed.

[@vovin8132]

@@b1laxson You actually don't know what you're talking about. A shopping mall may be privately-owned and operated, but it is open to the general public, ESPECIALLY in the common area of the mall itself (whether indoor or outdoor). This is an important distinction compared to an actual place of business, like an individual store within a mall. In regard to a mall, the public has general access to it (within rules like open hours and other posted signage). Trespassing somebody from a mall is actually a big deal for mall administration because they require a specific offense to justify it, along with the formal filing of paperwork and set time limits for the trespass. Otherwise, the trespass could be construed as discriminatory. It would also give the mall itself a bad reputation to just evict people left and right, because this would scare away customers. The laziest excuse for trespass is loitering, but try making that case for someone hanging out at a mall. The mall would need substantial records and video evidence of that person clearly being a nuisance. Resources have to go into that. Even if you do have a good case for trespass, you have to then try to get their information to issue the trespass, particularly their name, so the trespass can be enforced by police in the future (via "assault by trespass" charges). So when a mall trespasses someone, they have to have the paperwork ready AND essentially wait for police to arrive in order to obtain the name of the person. Source: I have worked in private security for over a decade, including in shopping malls.

[@GWW-o1f]

@b1laxson ​@b1laxson WHATEVER, GUY! NO, YOU CANNOT USE VIOLENCE IN REMOVING A PERSON. YOU CAN PHYSICALLY REMOVE. You use VIOLENCE.. YOU HAVE COMMITED ASSAULT. Sorry.. your reply is kind of gibberish. Security guard is NOT AN EMPLOYEE OF THE STORE. It's NOT like your livingroom. You don't just randomly "ask someone to leave" if they are shopping.. ARE YOU AWARE OF HOW THE SECURITY GUARD ACT(S) WORK?!? LET ME ENLIGHTEN YOU.. (GAWD!!). A security guard cannot legally act against someone IF THEY PUT AN ITEM in their pocket or backpack .. UNTIL THEY.. WALK.. OFF OF THE PROPERTY. ..The reason for that is that a person could accidently put it in their pack while shopping. A security guard has several DUTIES. BY LAW. The security guard has to WITNESS an act of shoplifting.. they can't SUSPECT IT. THEY AREN'T THERE TO "PROFILE" people. If someone looks like a drug addict.. and the security guard "doesn't like it".. TOO BAD for the security guard. They can't act on that they are "suspicious" of someone. Security guard is harassing for no reason other than they are a "douche".. then ask for the manager. They HAVE TO continue to WATCH a person put things in a bag.. their JOB.. THEIR "task".. LEGALLY.. IS TO OBSERVE THAT. Otherwise.. if they act.. they CAN be sued. If they make a citizen's arrest but they ade WRONG.. THEY CAN BE SUED. That is usually instilled during the security guard 40 hour training. Understand? If you think harassment is ok.. go find some communist country to reside in! Sure.. a person can start to DRAG someone off of their property.. say farm field.., physically.. that's NOT VIOLENCE. (Though it IS unwanted touching). Security guards are an employee of the security guard company. They aren't an employee of the company that the security guard company is contracted to. They can act in the interest of the owner to escort a trespasser off the property WHEN THE OWNER IS NOT PRESENT..

[@GWW-o1f]

​@@b1laxson​@b1laxson WHATEVER, GUY! NO, YOU CANNOT USE VIOLENCE IN REMOVING A PERSON. YOU CAN PHYSICALLY REMOVE. You use VIOLENCE.. YOU HAVE COMMITED ASSAULT. Sorry.. your reply is kind of gibberish. Security guard is NOT AN EMPLOYEE OF THE STORE. It's NOT like your livingroom. You don't just randomly "ask someone to leave" if they are shopping.. ARE YOU AWARE OF HOW THE SECURITY GUARD ACT(S) WORK?!? LET ME ENLIGHTEN YOU.. (GAWD!!). A security guard cannot legally act against someone IF THEY PUT AN ITEM in their pocket or backpack .. UNTIL THEY.. WALK.. OFF OF THE PROPERTY. ..The reason for that is that a person could accidently put it in their pack while shopping. A security guard has several DUTIES. BY LAW. The security guard has to WITNESS an act of shoplifting.. they can't SUSPECT IT. THEY AREN'T THERE TO "PROFILE" people. If someone looks like a drug addict.. and the security guard "doesn't like it".. TOO BAD for the security guard. They can't act on that they are "suspicious" of someone. Security guard is harassing for no reason other than they are a "douche".. then ask for the manager. They HAVE TO continue to WATCH a person put things in a bag.. their JOB.. THEIR "task".. LEGALLY.. IS TO OBSERVE THAT. Otherwise.. if they act.. they CAN be sued. If they make a citizen's arrest but they ade WRONG.. THEY CAN BE SUED. That is usually instilled during the security guard 40 hour training. Understand? If you think harassment is ok.. go find some communist country to reside in! Sure.. a person can start to DRAG someone off of their property.. say farm field.., physically.. that's NOT VIOLENCE. (Though it IS unwanted touching). Security guards are an employee of the security guard company. They aren't an employee of the company that the security guard company is contracted to. They can act in the interest of the owner to escort a trespasser off the property WHEN THE OWNER IS NOT PRESENT..

[@tjpighin]

What are you allowed to do when the neighbors keep coming through your property and spying on you from your own property through the trees and has had many aggressive instances where they have threatened your families lives verbally and they have snuck up behind your father as he is head down working and tries to fight him. Police were called and I personally tracked his footprints and compiled evidence but cops didn't even show up to investigate or take a statement. This neighbor has a history of violence and threats towards our family members

[@Roberto-xc5xy]

What would happen if four individuals break into your house at night while your family is sleeping ... What should you do??? This is currently happening a lot in the GTA ...

[@Itsok202]

Move

[@Fishy-i2g]

Call the Police is your legal option.

[@bf19881988]

Defend your family as you see fit. If violence is involved you'll be arrested. "They attacked my family". That's it. Then talk to your lawyer.

[@AgnesMariaL]

Get a proper (not a shepherd) guard dog!!! If the barking and clawing at the door from a 150# beast doesn't stop them from entering, the bites will!!!

[@Gareat]

“it all boils down to a lot of common sense”? And how much do you charge by the hour?😂

[@Doug-zl8nb]

Yes

[@montecristo9090]

We need to stop being nice and start to be good.

[@michaelronneseth801]

Castle laws, stand your ground laws are absolutely necessary, especially post Trudeau, Canada is not safe anymore at all.

[@VeganGirl.]

I live in rural New Brunswick where there is no shortage of rif raf who trespass and steal from hard-working people. These rif raf would be the ones to sue or criminally charge the property owner if they somehow got injured while robbing and beating the fuck out of you. No help from the cops.

[@hughgodau]

yes you can use as much force as you want. depending on the outcome , there may be repercussions. if there are no witnesses do what you want to the trespasser. i didnt see anything

[@DeeegerD]

Yes I can and as a Veteran very effeciently!

[@RelecFilms]

What about a dog. I have beware of dog sign on my door. What happens if my dog uses unreasonable force? It is not a trained guard dog. Just a dog that has a history of aggression and unpredictable when it comes to visitors, invited on uninvited.

[@jeffm1752]

With out witnesses . Its just your word against theirs . Act accordingly .

[@lonelybikr]

The biggest problem is cops are minute's away when seconds count.

[@Trudope4Jail]

The problem is the words "reasonable" and "proportional" Way too much gray area for prosecutors and judges to play around with.

[@JohnDoe-fo7yi]

I would love to have the topic of intent to be covered in a video. So far, you have covered the proportionality with regards to what threat they pose very well, however I'd love to hear some thoughts on how the intent of a trespasser or assailant (as best that can be determined by their actions prior or during the encounter) could affect the proportionality of the response. Proportionality seems to be in place to judge the outcome of being attacked with a certain weapon, from a person of a certain strength or competence, and asking that the victim use a similar response. So, when someone is angry at you for bumping his car and a scuffle occurs, pulling a gun might not be called for. For example, I'm a 180lbs man that is being attacked by a 180lbs man with his fists, but I happen to believe for whatever reason that they wish to kill me and might do so if they subdue me, would it then make sense to defend myself with more lethal force, such as a knife or gun? To me, the consequences of losing the fight are essential in how you would respond. An example would be a situation where you have a trespasser in the night and he is identified as being part of a violent gang, like the Hell's Angels (assuming you could positively do so). One could assume that this elevates the threat to your person. Its a crude and flawed example, but it could also be that you know a certain person has made death threats to you and you then find them breaking into your home unarmed. It would seem reasonable to me to use lethal force against someone that you know wishes to kill you (obviously only if they attacked you). Thoughts?

[@guslaberge]

As soon as cops show up, they will do anything to charge everyone. Never talk to them.

[@paulcarlson-es1gw]

so im interpreting " proportional " as when the " puffy jacket " crew comes for my range rover keys , im allowed to use my unregistered firearm ? help me , I just don't understand this

[@boxerfit-fitnesspersonaltr6151]

Common sense is not that common anymore!

[@peterhealey2668]

What about the person in your legal suite who refuses to pay the rent, are they then trespassing on your property, can you remove them?

[@user-zr6pl6nb6z]

That falls under tenancy laws.

[@johnmartlew5897]

Do I have the skills to remove this person? I’m not Robert McCall. Will the police do a better job? I’m not John Wick. Where is my property? In the woods? Down town? The burbs? A trailer park? A non specific hood. A homeless camp? Who and what is the threat? What attracted this situation to me? So many questions. What a life.

[@danieldonnelly3602]

Yah, phone the Po Po, they will put U on Hold and show up 2 hours later or not even show up... then U get 2 warning shots 2 the back

[@guido.demedici]

Doesn’t seem to apply to squatters and homeless.

[@jimmoore3705]

So proportional force is determined by me nitctge pokice ir tge judge. The law surrounding this has to be rewritten to clearly define that you are the one that determibes what is reasobable and what isn't.

[@clappercl]

"Used proportial force" means "the judge liked him/her"

[@ShipNavigator]

Good day Sir. Can the police be considered "someone" ?

[@ericwhitlam7517]

You sure can in my world

[@PixieCropCircleDuster]

I started barricading my door after i changed the locks , because i was coming home to horror surprise after being out.. plus another journal has potentially grown legs, run away , crossed the border & walked onto the set of Joker 2 as a guilt ridden, drunkass, psychotic, regurgitated regurgitation, sex offender, needing to body shame or just shame on every level while "sending me back to whore school" as payment, Version of itself . I'm trying to make arts and crafts and everytime i try to do something recovery or online journal related they threaten to "hit" my nephew, second time he came home from daycare wirh a bruise. I cant prove any of this. I didn't write V for Vendetta the Matrix, Ballerina, etc but i definitely , unwilling, non consentually, made creative contributions, definitely got abused, hurt, publically humilated and threatened after some B& E's .... Warner Bros wouldnt hire me to sweep a floor. Again I can't prove any of this, but everyone knows and its worse than awkward. I don't even know if I'm asking advice or dumping, i cant afford either. But thanks for letting me Your channel's really great. Thanks.

[@quevicular]

Can you use force to remove RCMP from your premises is more like it.

[@XcmxMccqx]

Don't care what the law says.

[@egSmith-sp9gl]

I sure can !!!

[@Frank-qr3bl]

It’s pretty cheep to rent a excavator

[@georgeskrzypniak2731]

Calling police? What about when someone doesn't have a phone?

[@randolphstead2988]

Too bad that cops don't seem to operate under these rules.

[@PaulHodgson-gm6lg]

I had a man trespass on my property, carrying a firearm, he swore at me, but left. could I have defended myself with a firearm?

[@mintybiscuits941]

In Canada? You would have a very hard time justifying how you went to your secured gun case, removed your gun, removed the ammunition from the other secured case, loaded it, went back outside, and confronted the individual in self defence.

[@PaulHodgson-gm6lg]

@@mintybiscuits941 after him swearing at me thankfully he left.

[@wilmamcdermott3065]

No not unless he threatened you

[@AndrewBrowner]

@@PaulHodgson-gm6lg sounds like a hunter walking out of the woods you started a confrontation with.. its not the end of the world if someone walks across your property.. weve all done it, its not like theres giant neon lines erupting from the earth letting everyone know where property lines are

[@PaulHodgson-gm6lg]

@AndrewBrowner There are apps you can put on your phone that show the location of property lines, stay legal and get one.

[@quevicular]

Proportional force?

[@waynegalvin4639]

Just call the police, they are paid to do that.

[@OutOfControl-y8u]

So in short, not really

[@christophe3281]

Uhhh. You don’t call the police. You don’t call anyone. 🤫

[@ed713ca]

Only if you are a jedi master

[@jenn280]

It cannot be common sense when our population is changing so drastically Canada relies on common sense but that is a far gone notion.

[@k.t.ingram375]

police won't come here, tried that, they refused to come.

[@stevew4117]

Sure you might win your case, but how much will that cost you?

[@GordonBrown-x6i]

The police will take hrs to come to a rural area or the next day ,once again police don't protect anyone they just respond mostly late or not at all in a rural setting and probably late in any city

[@RickMason-yj7pv]

Sure. Even unusual force. Just keep your mouth shut.

[@bf19881988]

When seconds matter.. police are minutes away.

[@VeganGirl.]

Except in rural New Brunswick where the police are 2 hours away. They have to come from the Tim Horton’s in Moncton, which is 2 hours from my house. 😅

[@bf19881988]

@VeganGirl. Self-defense is a god-given right.

[@VeganGirl.]

@@bf19881988 I agree1000%