KTM Oil Migration Prevention, Oil Pump Upgrade, Gear Case Venting Fix

2008-2010 450 and 530 EXC and XC-W models
ORIGINAL WRITE UP (Hodakaguy):
advrider.com/f/threads/697495
2011 PARTS USED:
OIL PUMP COVER: 78038103233
OIL PUMP SHAFT: 78038102100
OIL PUMP GEAR 17 Tooth: 78038001017
OIL PUMP GEAR 27 Tooth: 78038001027
OIL PUMP COVER O-RING: 0770320015
OIL PUMP (SUCTION) COVER O-RING: 0770440020
OIL PUMP GEAR RETAINING E-CLIPS (x2): 0799060000
CLUTCH BASKET NUT RETAINING PLATE: 77332018000
OPTIONAL:
CRANK END SEAL: 0760142460
GEAR CASE COVER GASKET: 78030025000

[@00through99]

This video is quite niche so it doesn’t have a lot of attention but the importance of the detail, clarity, and thoroughness made a huge impact on the function of my bike and therefore my enjoyment of it. Prevented a lot of frustration too. You’re doing gods work for those of us this problem effects. Thanks!

[@colindgrant]

That's great to hear. Thanks for commenting!

[@randomuser8347]

Just got a 09 400. Doing this now. Video was a great to let me know what to expect. I had a new 08 450 EXC. So I remembered the problems but knew there was some cure. Thanks

[@JohnCrane-qv7hy]

And you did it all one handed! Awesome video! Getting ready for this on a 08 530

[@colindgrant]

Right on! They are great bikes 👍

[@MBAK907]

This was a very good and straight forward video, thank you.

[@hanswallenborg6823]

Thank you🙂 Helped me very much with my 530 exc - 08

[@techi3075]

Bravo. Well done!

[@vetteengineer6614]

I've watched a lot of how to videos and this is one of the best. This was scaring me, but after watching the video I'm on my to order parts. Great job!

[@colindgrant]

Thanks man, I *really* appreciate this!

[@StockyBaldman]

Great video

[@jonnelson5018]

Excellent, thank you!

[@Frakman5369]

Thank you for posting

[@Neils.smith1996]

Hi i have the 450 same year would the same part numbers fit mine ? Is is 530 same engine as 450 except for piston ect

[@simonmarshall986]

Hi mate I have exact same champions edition and love the videos you’ve made on it. I like how you explain everything step by step and list the part numbers. Look forward to more mechanical videos. Maybe a top end vid next? 👍

[@colindgrant]

Glad you like them! Each time I do some mechanical work on this awesome bike, I'll make a video. Thanks for commenting, good to know there are others out there wrenching on these. There must be at least 6 of us, haha!

[@colindgrant]

Made a new one in case you need to know how the front forks go together...

[@turubalcazar7083]

hello, I had the gears made in aluminum and it has worked perfectly, of course, the new gears were modified to the measures of the update. Do you think I have problems for putting aluminum and not plastic? greetings from mexico thank you

[@motopodbor_116]

Awesome video!

[@colindgrant]

Thanks!

[@user-mf1vj4bb3z]

Good video

[@TheMikkoRusanen]

Thanks for the video! Do you remember were there any notable differences between the old oil pump cover and the new one? Doing this myself and getting that new cover by the end of summer..

[@colindgrant]

I couldn't see any differences visually. You may want to read the original post by Hodakaguy, it has detail on every single part in the upgrade.

[@ncpt8277]

I have the same 2010 530xcw 6days edition. How can i tell if my bike has these updates? Pretty sure it has the updated cover/o-ring as theres an old one in the box of parts it came with.

[@adventureswithkatem]

I had an 08 450 excr, had oil migrate from engine to gear box,did every update possible apart from new crank cases. All the fixes did was make the oil migrate the other way.even the dealer couldn't fix the problem.

[@colindgrant]

I've read that about the '08, seems the first year of this motor was the toughest to deal with. Some say the case has to be split, and a port added to make it a single sump system. You probably know better than I. From what I can tell most of the problems were resolved by the time my 2010 was built, but this seemed worthwhile. You say 'had', did you end up selling your '08? Because of the oil migration?

[@Bushrookie820]

I have a 2011 model build on 08/10 how do I know if I need to do the upgrade ?

[@hunterlabarge2060]

How much did it cost on parts

[@kinuchiha]

Great video! I was wondering what the torque spec was on the clutch basket?

[@colindgrant]

I don't recall, but it's probably listed in the service manual.

[@thetrailwaychildren]

Hi I have this bike and I love it! I have a ticking noise, I replaced the cam chain tensioner with a mechanical one but its still there? Could the oil pump gears make this noise if loose? Or should I be checking the upper area for stretched chain, rocker arm play etc?

[@colindgrant]

The ticking sound is probably from something else, but if it's an '08 thru '10, I would go ahead and swap the oil pump gears, seals, and shaft just to rule that out. The gears are plastic, you could have a damaged tooth. Did you adjust the valves? I posted another video about that.

[@gerrykolaitis6515]

Hi mate, great video! Detailed and precise. I have a couple of questions that I am hoping you may be able to shed some light: 1- if the bush has rotated or installed incorectly blocking the 2 holes for the gearbox vent, how does this make the engine oil migrate in to the gearbox? if the gearbox is pressurising wouldnt that cause the gearbox oil to migrate in to the engine? I have a 2008 530 EXCr with the breathers connected as per OEM, engine and gearbox T'ed to the carby intake and I am yet to strip it down to see if the bush is correct and at the same time upgrade the oil pump (if it wasnt in the recent rebuild by others) but my engine oil seems to disappear from the sight glass on every ride, i.e. a complete sight glass in approx 20km regardless if I am riding on dirt or road. Top and bottom end was done about 15 hours ago and oil issue was there before too. what are your thoughts? Thanks. Edit: Gearbox oil level is unaffected, always at the right spot.

[@colindgrant]

Hey great questions. You may be right about the vent. If blocked I would suspect oil to transfer from gear case to engine sump. But due to heating and cooling I could see it going either way. But since making this video I have been watching my levels closely and I have the same results as you. I start out with engine sight glass topped out and gear case level with the check/fill bolt. Recently I did 100 miles and the engine oil was at the bottom of the sight glass. I did some checking and found the gear oil was still level. So I think the oil must be burning off. It’s only what, a .6L sump? Tiny. So level will change fast. Mine doesn’t have a lot of miles, compression is high, power is good, no visible smoke. So I’m not sure it’s a problem but I’m pretty sure I’m burning oil. Maybe that’s what you’ve got going on too? Fortunately it doesn’t take much to top it up 🤷‍♂️

[@gerrykolaitis6515]

@@colindgrant thanks for the reply, 100miles though is much better than my 15 or so.... mine doesnt blow smoke and power is great, but I am told there is a smell of burning oil.. given the motor is fresh, I wonder if it is been sucked through the breather and if so how to stop it. On another note, have you had any experince with oil wiping out of the water pump drain?

[@colindgrant]

@@gerrykolaitis6515 No problems with oil and the water pump on mine. Definitely strange that you would lose that much oil in just 15 miles. But you're on the right track to diagnosing it. As far as I can see there are only 3 places it can go: 1) A leak through gasket or breather would coat parts in oil, you would see it. 2) Into the gear case, you would see higher level. 3) Burning off, it would make sense that you smell it, but possibly no visible smoke. You may be able to tell if you're burning oil by looking at the plug after a hard ride (I don't recall exactly what to look for, but there's plenty of talk online about reading plugs). Some people say it's a common issue on these bikes especially at higher speeds: www.advrider.com/f/threads/530-using-losing-oil-denver-ktm-mechanic.822303/

[@gerrykolaitis6515]

@@colindgrant Thanks. So i have removed the breather from the carb and shoved in a bottle to see if it spews out oil, after a 2 hour road ride, the bottle was completely empty, the gearbox was at the correct level - checked when cold, but the sight glass had dropped right to the bottom, similar to when the breathers are connected to the carb, give or take a little. So it seems that I am not breathing or migrating but burning.... I had a look at the link you sent and it does seem that it is a common occurance on the 530s... although mosy were saying that it is worse on the road... seems to be about the same on mine, i.e. road or dirt.. The other thing that I have noticed is that there is a bit of oil dripping from the wheep hole on the water pump.... I have ordered a set of new seals to replace them,... although not something that you d expect after 20hours from a rebuild...... I hope its nothing more sinister.

[@colindgrant]

@@gerrykolaitis6515 clever idea with the bottle. I agree it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Please post if you find the source of the issue! I’d be curious to know. Best of luck!

[@rileyhicks8421]

Nice work! Do you know if you can do the same on a 2008 530 EXC-R? Tia!

[@colindgrant]

Yeah this applies to 2008-2010

[@stevesparamotoringadventur7874]

Is there an update on how this is working out? I ordered all of the parts yesterday and am curious to know how it's holding up!

[@colindgrant]

Holding up great! I see the engine oil level go down after a while, but I open the transmission check/fill plug periodically and the oil is level. So there's no oil migration that I can detect, just burning a little bit.

[@thiagocarneiro2928]

I have one 450 2010, the oil migration is flowing from gear to engine, if I follow the same steps as you do in your video is it possible solve the problem? Is there more gaskets or seals to change? Do you know if has more

[@davidschmidt5533]

My 530 exc has the carb breather plugged, i had issues too but ended up doing the single sump mod. Baaically combining clutch and crank oil by drilling holes in the bottom section clutch side through middle to combine both. Been running great since. Newer engines are pretty much the same but not separated like the 08s, 09s and possibly 10s are.

[@colindgrant]

Should be the same, I believe the 450 and 530 is nearly the same engine.

[@colindgrant]

@@davidschmidt5533 I know for sure the 2008 thru 2011 have the XC4 motor with the dual oil sumps.

[@frencvoo1960]

Do have any issue since you done that?

[@colindgrant]

No issues.

[@nwyoda8792]

did these mods and still have issue of oil filling the engine side. If i let it sit on the kick stand it filles the engine side also. What the heck is going on!

[@usaphilippines]

Do the oil migration mod by drilling the hole and combining the two. He recommends a 6mm hole. Another guy on the comments said he did 1/2 inch hole so it has plenty of oil flow. I am doing this today or tomorrow if I get time. kzbin.info/www/bejne/p2PUc6Frop2Ih6M

[@colindgrant]

I agree with@@usaphilippines. The modification to combine the reservoirs is probably the way to go if you are 100% sure that oil is transferring between the cases.

[@usaphilippines]

I am 100% sure, took the casing off and there was very little oil in the gearbox, and way overfull on the oil side. I am trying to compress the mod into a youtube short with a fast straight to the point video of what i did to help others@@colindgrant

[@colindgrant]

@@usaphilippinesI love it! I hope you do that, it would be very helpful to others with our model bike. Please share the link with me if you do!!! -Colin

[@derrickhokit]

Awesome video. Where does the crank end seal go from your parts list? Doesn’t look like you used it in the video, but if you were to where is it located?

[@colindgrant]

Great catch! I realized much later that I hadn't explained that in the video. The crank end seal actually goes in the cover. Once I had everything apart I inspected my seal and it was in great shape. It would be pretty tricky to remove the old one, but doable with a seal puller or patience with pics and pry tools. The seal will almost certainly be destroyed by the removal. I decided to leave it alone, I didn't replace it in the end.

[@colindgrant]

You can see it pretty clearly at 13:40

[@RIPPERTON]

7:35 I wouldnt drill those oil holes out on the kick idler gear. You dont want to increase flow of the breather because on super steep climbs like 40 degrees, gear oil actually swamps this area and gets sucked up into the carb blowing big smoke wads in the bush and almost fouling the plug. Ive done a kick delete on my 2008 and have covered this stub shaft with a strip of shop rag and a spring hose clamp.

[@RIPPERTON]

Edit, the shop rag and hose clamp didnt work, just chugged oil out the breather but did lead to me finding out how the breather works. You wont believe this. The 2 holes you drilled out are supposed to sling the gear oil back into the gearbox centrifugally while at the same time letting air pass in or out of the breather. So I will still say "dont drill the holes out" but instead push the bronze bush out and re install it so the holes line up and form a perfect cylindrical shape that gives the most centrifugal effect. Drilling makes the holes crooked or stepped. Plus if you do a kick delete, leave the idler in.

[@colindgrant]

@@RIPPERTON thanks for sharing your experience here! I would have loved to just reposition the internal bushing, and I tapped it to see if it was removable/moveable, but it seems like it's pressed in there pretty solidly. With an inductive heat coil maybe I could heat the outside fast enough to make it expand and allow rotation of the bushing, but drilling was the best I could do in my garage at the time. I drilled clean straight holes though. So at worst, there's a little crescent shaped 'dead-end' next to each complete hole that matches the outer gear. I look forward to increasing my skill to where I'm climbing hills like you describe!

[@59plexi]

you must be a meck-a-nick....🤔

[@colindgrant]

Haha, not even close