The Alpha Male Antidote

[@TaraMooknee]

Whilst I agree with everything you're saying, I would like to provide an additional perspective on this issue. As a woman who grew up around this kind of mindset, poking fun at it is a powerful coping mechanism. As a woman who has tried and failed to change the minds of the men in her own life, I see my community as a space for other femmes in a similar situation to vent and connect over the (perceived) hopelessness of the situation. Now, someone might rightly respond with "well what about the men who watch alpha videos?" THIS IS WHY male feminists are so important because unfortunately a lot of these guys wouldn't even listen to a woman in the first place, so if decent men can be a buffer and even an olive branch then that can make the world of difference. Basically in short: thank fuck for people like Duncan because I do not have the patience to even attempt to reason with these guys 😂

[@LordOfElysium]

Agreed, additional perspectives (especially in a conversation like this) are very important, so thank you. 💕

[@kattodoggo3868]

Women can try and try to change men in general but it's a lost cause. Why would they listen to us? You value opinion of someone who is of some value to you. We know how they treat us. As long as other men will keep allowing this behaviour but swatting eyes i guess we will not see any change. All we can do is vet men thoroughly

[@SirDankleberry]

@@kattodoggo3868 Well I'll let you know so you don't have to vet me and say no. I would not like to spend time with a judgemental person like you.

[@SirDankleberry]

@Sam Antha No she's just generalising.

[@sunnyandthechlo]

@@SirDankleberry The whole video is about these ‘alpha men’ she’s talking about them, not YOU in particular. But if you still find yourself offended then maybe you gotta think about why that is.

[@maxjonope]

I can't take Alpha males seriously because of the Omegaverse. It's broken me beyond repair.

[@basementdwellercosplay]

If these alpha males mention a knot a single time, I'll lose it

[@Spliffted]

We just gotta convince them it’s not cool and stupid so they stop doing it, kinda like nfts

[@jaylaoliver6725]

Same 😭

[@Portlandporkpies]

@@basementdwellercosplay fr 😭

[@JulianSteve]

@@basementdwellercosplay You are correct and cool username lol😂!

[@nataliedvorak7692]

If a man ever approaches me and tells me he's an "alpha male", I will bark at him until he goes away.

[@notaburneraccount]

To me, alphas are bitter and threatened that people aren't putting up with patriarchy/misogyny etc ... 🤷🏻

[@zwigoma2]

@@notaburneraccount You make me sick !

[@Sirtristepan]

nahhh that'd probably make the specimen think you wanted to be treated like a dog and put on a leash

[@jonferngut]

that would make you... an alpha female 😳😳

[@shrekstraightouttaswampton]

@@nataliedvorak7692 what if they start barking with you lmao

[@kuro-kuromi32]

the fact that many of these ‘Alpha Males’ inadvertently built their empire of misogyny on the very same theory that produced the Omegaverse is so funny to me in such a twisted way

[@anitanielsen1061]

Coleydoesthings actually made a skit on this XD

[@meermond]

eh. omegaverse (at least in the few fandoms where i dared to look those fics up) is pretty misogynist in its own right.

[@vicki5322]

@@meermond I'm not a big omegaverse fan, but it's a bit reductive to simply call it misogynist. As I've understood it it's usually an explorarion of misogyny. It mirrors our world, and although it usually doesn't read as very feminist, engaging in a topic is not the same as condoning it. Most fanfiction and erotica is written by women, and in that female-dominated space there is gonna be a lot of fiction exploring aspects of sexism, and omegaverse is like an extreme version of sexism. There is, for some, comfort to be found in exploring that world in a safe space, and sexualising it. It's the reason r*pe fantasies are also common in women's erotica. It's about having control over something that is very real and horrible in your real life that you otherwise have no control over. That being said there's a lot of shifty omegaverse out there

[@meermond]

@@vicki5322 thank you for your more nuanced take! i do appreciate that a lot. yes, using a sexist trope in story telling is just using a trope. can be good, can be bad. we arent disagreeing here. still, its "recreating gender inequality in same sex couples, because power imbalance (from birth/'presenting') is the point to be explored, mostly as a way to fantasize, simplify and write smut". my point was simply, omegaverse and the alphagrind mindset share the same misogyny. its derived from the same idea. yes, its more critical, usually,and fictional, but saying women and women spaces cant be sexist is also weird? some women are sexist, and most of the omegaverse fic ive stumbled upon was mysoginist. denying its roots from the alpha-omega theory in popculture and mpreg fic genre is like saying, the high fantasy genre has no racism.

[@vicki5322]

@@meermond you're completely right that it can be sexist and often is, it's a mistake on my part if I didn't make that clear, that's what I meant with most omegaverse sucking (I didn't want to write a too long reply so I deleted a bunch of stuff I wrote), because I think the vast majority of omegaverse stuff is only interested in it being a weird sex thing, not as a societal exploration. I mean I haven't read a lot because omegaverse doesn't interest me much, but from my limited experience they usually seem to want to touch on the topic, but not engage in it. But I think omegaverse, it being erotica, mainly exists as fantasy and wish fulfillment, like all porn. That doesn't mean it's divorced from its real life roots, but rather that it exists in a place where people are supposed to enjoy it as a fantasy, like what I said with sexual assault. Just because it's wrong in real life doesn't mean it's wrong to write porn about it, you know? It serves a very specific purpose, which is not the same as other types of fiction. It being sexist is like, the point. If that is right is something people can have different opinions on, what porn should exist and not, etc, but because it's usually made by women I just sorta saw it as a way to explore a collective trauma. But our perspective on what omegaverse is and does will be different because of our different experiences with it, or even just different mindsets going in. I never really saw omegaverse as the writer making something outright sexist, and that can be naive of me, I don't know. I mean, if a man write omegaverse, especially with an m/f couple, I would not feel the same way, because then it would be an exploration of their role as the oppressors, not as the oppressed. I've read through this message and see that I contradict myself, but I'll just leave it that way because I think that this is a pretty complex topic that's much larger than I know, or care to know about, and evidently my mind's not even that made up about it. Most omegaverse is made by, like, people in fandom or small authors, I don't really see this as anything important, and it's not a hill i need to die on. I think it's an interesting topic, but only to an extent. I think I just wanted to add some nuance because I know it exists, and claiming that all omegaverse is just unchecked sexism is wrong, but I don't know the full complexity of it. I think you could make a whole research paper on omegaverse, it's a pretty dense topic that touches on so many other things. But it won't be me, I can tell you that. I don't even like omegaverse, the sexism is sexy is not an itch I have. Omegaverse is pretty overt with its sexist roots, it's not something it tries to hide, it's the whole point. Some people want to ignore that pain, some people want to sexualize it, people like to sexualize their pain and fears and trauma etc, it's all about control in the end. Or maybe I'm too kind to a topic that I haven't seen the full extent of, who knows, sorry for the long and messy reply jdhdjdk

[@bhagavad-gitakarma1604]

As a PSY Male, I always say "Oppa Gangnam style" everytime I wake up in the morning or achieve a quest.

[@picccle]

as a delta airlines male, i always say “bweeoooooshhhhh” whenever i wake up in the morning or achieve a quest

[@emalaw1329]

Do you also get your charm and looks from your daddy, identify yourself as a "mato fato gentleman" and address bodacious women in the streets by saying "hey, sexy lady"?

[@bhagavad-gitakarma1604]

@@emalaw1329 Noice one.

[@hannahbrown5465]

I’m gonna start doing this to force dopamine release

[@anaionescu8913]

I was THIS close to asking what a "psy male" is cause I thought it was some new omegaverse label

[@andrearupe8094]

I had a friend who REALLY wanted to be a tattoo artist. She was a really good artist, and often scribbled on her own body with pinpoint sharpies as "practice" and they would look LEGIT. She even had her own tattooing kit. I asked her what was stopping her, because clearly she had the skills. She told me you can't just **be** a tattoo artist, you have to ho through an apprenticeship first. I asked why she wasn't apprenticing under someone, and she told me that tattoo artists are VERY picky with who they take as an apprentice, because they don't want competition. They don't want to train someone to do what they do, because then they could potentially lose customers, and they really aren't gaining anything by training new blood.

[@skankfaceBECCA]

Hi! I know this is a bit unrelated to the video at hand but. Im a tattoo artist based in Oregon, and i want to say it highly depends on the area you live in but im not suprised by your friends experience, especially if you live in low populated cities. I dont and there are so many artists, its almost overwhelming. But the competition is fierce everywhere, moreso in small cities where theres not much clientele. In general, old school artists do feel & act this way, but they also just dont want to spend time they could be tattooing, teaching. Thats money out of their pocket & time they could be using. Tattooing is a hard and not lucrative career and it makes older artists mean and jaded. I think too many people outside the industry look at it with rose colored glasses cause they see artists on instagram who are famous but its actually incredibly expensive to be in, hard and not well paying and its very rare you become famous off your work. No health insurance unless youre lucky and have a spouse with a job that can give you health insurance, 401k, no disability if you get sick/hurt and cant work which will eventually happen. When the pandemic hit i was out of a job for three months when the shop was closed - but i still had rent. I was so depressed i wanted to die. These are things that contribute to the idea that, too much competition can really hurt our lives. We have nothing to fall back on if something goes wrong or you lose clients. If your friend really wants to tattoo, move to a big city, be pushy & dedicated. But also, they need to remember, one day they may be in the same shoes as that tattooer that rejected them. Best of luck!

[@stephanieh3776]

Her being a woman is unfortunately another challenge in the tattoo world. It’s very sexist still and women are not afford as many opportunities as men because of this. My tattoo artist is a woman and she started an apprenticeship with someone who constantly sexually harassed her and encouraged that type of behavior in his shop. As soon as she could she got away from him and has now opened her own tattoo shop. Now she focuses on her apprentices and shop mates to be female, LGBTQ+, or other underrepresented people in the tattoo world. She’s constantly promoting them and people who she has previously mentored. She does this because she doesn’t like how the tattooing world is currently and is actively trying to change it.

[@jennyjune9667]

I’ve seen a lot of tattoo artists working without apprenticeships all she really needs is a tattoo license and she can start working. I’m in the US btw so idk how it works in other countries but I feel like it’s the same

[@bannedmann4469]

That crowd is never been bright. It should just be an agreement to not compete in the area, or something.

[@namelesintelect4016]

Talent does not get you the job. Everyone in America knows that by now. People have to learn to build talent and relationships.

[@sunnyandthechlo]

Something that always struck me as odd about these guys is that they’re always talking about having babies, pumping out babies, leaving their legacy, continuing on their name, just HAVING children. But not once have I ever heard them talk about CARING for their children. They likely assume that will be the woman’s job, but if more men focused on the fact that their children are, ya know, PEOPLE who need nurturing and guidance, maybe kids and teens would be a little less confused and self conscious. Not that one parent can’t do it on their own, but if more kids see their fathers also setting a real example it could help keep them out of the toxicity sludge.

[@notaburneraccount]

Lol so easy for them to say that when they don't have to give birth 🤦🏻 low effort yo

[@jessicayoung3656]

Lmao, yeah like your legacy is ensured when your wife divorces you and you are estranged from your children. Because that is more likely to happen if the men don't participate in parenting. Children are not dumb.

[@matttran7161]

They don't know how to be fathers because he didn't have them themselves. It's a vicious cycle. Like look at their hero, Kevin Samuels.

[@bigwhy6845]

They're probably also the first guys who would lambast a woman for "getting herself pregnant" and "stealing all his money" through child support.

[@syckles]

Lol don't be ridiculous, an alpha male would never trust a woman to father their child.. 😂🤣

[@maddiet1717]

This is the most productive conversation about alpha podcasts I’ve seen yet. Complaining or ridiculing without offering alternative solutions will fall on deaf ears.

[@bhagavad-gitakarma1604]

True 👍 But not many if any at all with take heed to the solutions.

[@MissMaeww]

FD Signifier did a fantastic long form video on this recently too that you may enjoy!

[@SkyLene]

very true! though changing mindsets isn’t usually the aim in commentary videos making fun of alpha podcasts. sometimes we just need an outlet and need to have lighthearted fun with it because it’s exhausting to have to frequently deal with it in reality

[@bhagavad-gitakarma1604]

@@MissMaeww might* Sorry

[@onemillionpercent]

yup

[@skristen6152]

One would think being named Duncan Kastner would equate an excellent German accent..... nevertheless it was funny

[@deadlynn7774]

My best friends boyfriend was kinda in this mindset. He wasn’t like super far gone or anything but he was super annoying when they first started dating and made really bigoted jokes. Once we (all of the women in the friend group) expressed that we were uncomfortable with the jokes he was making and he actually heard us out. Once we started hanging out with him more he realized how toxic his mindset and even his friends were. So he stopped hanging with those friends and now we all get along w him. Edit: some of the replies to this made me realize I can block ppl on KZbin who woulda thought

[@xiiaohao3871]

No way?! A happy ending?!

[@Miguel-xd8dd]

That's hella nice

[@deadlynn7774]

@@Miguel-xd8dd yeah he’s actually a really cool person and we all play video games together sometimes lmao

[@deadlynn7774]

@천사 oh yeah I’ve been through that too. I think he really only heard us out because we were his girlfriends friends and he really does love and care about her. He might be rare tbh

[@mightymeatymech]

@@deadlynn7774 he might be rare but by god, your friend group sounds awesome:)) I wish that young couple all the Best, and you too

[@Xfvdfgbu77]

When I was like 16 I was super into the alpha male redpill manosphere. I think their channels prey on young impressionable boys without strong male role models in their lives, they give you some decent advice like "going to gym will make you more attractive and make you feel better about yourself", "Set goals for yourself and work hard on trying to achieve them", then as a young impressionable teenage boy with no father figure who's never been told anything or given any guidance before you start to think this dime a dozen common sense is some amazing wisdom and that this random middle-aged bald man on TRT is a paragon of masculinity and wisdom. So then when they start to fill your head with a bunch of sexist shit you just don't question it and just go along with it, "oh he was right about x so he must be right about y", and then they'll paint anyone who disagrees with them as a low testosterone, soyboy, beta, cuck, so when anyone does try to dismantle your warped view on relationships and women you'll ignore them because they're just some bluepilled soyboy. Only after a string of failed relationships did I realise that everything they taught me about relationships and women was cap. Oh and when you a relationship you're in does crash and burn, who do you go to? you ask other people in this epic alpha male community for advice, and then you double down and think "Oh it must of failed because I wasn't alpha enough". Crazy shit.

[@Silvercentipede]

Wow, you articulated this so amazingly. Congratulations on the self-reflection and getting out of it

[@DimaRakesah]

I just wanted to speak out for the "soy boys" because I am married to a vegan and he's great! The idea that all woman want one specific type of dude is just not true.

[@scarlett4417]

i agree with this, but the idea of needing a father figure in order to see masculinity positively is innately sexist (and a tad homophobic). lesbians and single mothers can do a great job of raising children, theyre often just overwhelmed, sometimes due to oppression (and single mothers as a demographic are typically poorer than families with 2+ parents).

[@isakaldazwulfazizsunus7564]

Pretty much my conclusion from the outside analyzing Tate. The worst thing is that they claim to be traditional but they don't pass on the real qualities valued in traditional men, such as courage, self-sacrifice, empathy... In pop culture Aragorn comes to mind as this healing leader of men, but none of those people promote that. And when you listen to Sneako's podcast it sounds like Dating a sociopath 101

[@isakaldazwulfazizsunus7564]

@@scarlett4417 No it's not. The father figure, formulated otherwise is the central male model. A good father figure will help prevent a kid surrounded by women from seeing Tate for the first time to just go "that's what a real man is". Young men tend to look for powerful, positive figures of their own sex to follow and admire. A father, an uncle, a male friend of the family. Tate fills that void by saying: this is what it looks like. Which doesn't take away from how great the kid's parents are. A good kid with good parents just needs to put his trust in the wrong people

[@noahsamsen]

dude, this might be my favorite video of yours. I've been struggling a lot lately thinking about how to contend with this issue, because it is so much more complex than I'd previously thought, and I worry about the direction I feel pulled when it comes to addressing the manosphere in videos. We are incentivized to make content that's as entertaining and engaging as possible, and what this does (at least for me) is make it easy to cast aside the real perspectives of the people (i.e. young men) that are caught up in this stuff, in favor of jokes about the creators. As you said, the jokes and dunks are an objectively good presence to have on the platform. Misogyny is always worth critiquing, and we all have our own ways of doing that. But it is absolutely true that the jokes aren't doing enough if while making them we are being wholly dismissive of those audiences, and the feelings that have led them to hold those problematic beliefs. for us as male creators, who have the highest likelihood of reaching them, we can do better to provide alternative frameworks for healthy masculinity - and videos like this one are a huge step in the right direction. I'm also reminded of FD Signifier's recent video, "Dissecting the Manosphere" bc I think both will serve as guideposts laid down by new wave creators for where this conversation needs to go. Never stop being you Duncan!!!!!

[@rachaelmorozov1632]

Thank you so much for your input on this, I really enjoyed your video on addressing the Manosphere/alpha males. I think that it is amazing that more and more people are explaining exactly how this mentality is destructive and toxic, and how the KZbin algorithms are legitimately fanning the flames and tossing people into echo chambers that they then get trapped in…

[@KuncanDastner]

I have you to thank for setting the bar that inspired this way of thinking!! I was so glad to see you focus on a source of help in your video and I’m truly thankful you took the time to add that, that is what gave me that little adrenaline boost of hope

[@fran791]

It's the men like you who restore my hope in humanity. Thank you for your service king

[@ThomasFoolery8]

Noah, you and Kuncan can’t create an alternative framework for masculinity because you aren’t masculine. Look at your skinny-fat bodies. If a mugger assaulted your gf in front of you you’d literally yelp like a puppy dog. Women don’t respect men who pander to their virtue signaling and adhere to ideologies that favor them as a mating strategy. Women respect men who are strong, competent and ambitious as they should.

[@ThomasFoolery8]

Wheat Waffles has asked you to debate him multiple times and you ignore him. If you want to “save” men then introduce better ideas to the marketplace of ideas by facing a top content creator and debating him. What are you afraid of? Could it be that… YOURE WRONG? Lol.

[@breckbusha5291]

My husband worked with a guy who constantly called himself an "Alpha". This dude was constantly trying to fight his coworkers and was constantly talking about how he could get any woman he wants. Almost every day hubby brought home new stories about the alpha. We laughed and laughed 😅

[@jimjimson6208]

On god man these dudes always brag about how they can have any woman they want and yet every time I see them they got no bitches, let alone a healthy long term relationship. I remember a couple years ago I had a guy in one of my uni classes who unironically referred to himself as an alpha male and flexed about how he could have any woman he wanted at any time... I also remember me and almost half of the class were waiting at the bus stop to go home and a couple of people came forward about how he was touching the women in his classes without their consent and in general making everyone extremely uncomfortable. He also had some incredibly questionable and uninformed opinions on the education system based on his weird personal opinions that he could barely articulate in a coherent fashion, and derailed almost every in class discussion into some kind of tangentially related (if that) political debate. And then there was the time where he said women were best suited be cashiers because it was a job where they, and I quote, 'just have to stand around and look pretty'. He never read the prescribed course content before class, so ended up looking like an idiot when he tried to debate people who had actually studied the topics we were discussing. Needless to say he was a real catch, I can't imagine why women found him creepy and obnoxious. I genuinely don't know where his confidence came from when he was overweight, lazy, and had the charisma of a smelly bean bag. Just Alpha male things I guess. Kind ranted for a bit there lol but these people are a different breed

[@violetta_chromatica]

Aw this is sweet

[@andrewkoster6506]

"alphas" and incels are the same people

[@claudiaschmidt3708]

@@jimjimson6208 I think all these guys bragging about getting women actually rap Ed and molested them. Men really do not understand consent, they think they are seducing her but in reality rapi Ng i guess

[@romantic_hippie]

I've dated a couple guys who were alphas and they were total turn offs. They always say other men as competition. whether it be about me or road rage, other men were competition. They were always looking to assert their dominance on someone, even if they did nothing wrong. I had enough when one of my ex-boyfriends had really bad road rage and would chase people down the street and try to yell at them, but he said he didn't care because he carried a gun on him, so in his mind if anyone try to f*** with him he would just kill them. He literally would make up whole scenarios in his mind of how he would try to fight other men over nothing. I yelled at him and said "I don't appreciate you putting my life in danger so you can go on some rampage to make your ego feel better because this guy cut you off. You don't know who the other person is, you don't know what they're capable of, you don't know who they know throughout town that they could call to come jump us". Not everybody is looking to fight them, some people just don't care about road rules and it's not the end of the world. Some alpha males really don't seem to understand that nobody gives a shit about them or what they do in life. Life is not as big of a competition as they seem to think it is. Not every single guy on the street is looking to fight them to prove their dominance. It's so exhausting being with them because they're just never satisfied or settled. There's always a reason for them to be hyped up for a fight.

[@jacobsuszczynski8719]

In therapy, I was expressing how at times I feel embarrassed or ashamed of identifying as male because there were so many boys in my highschool who were insensitive, sexist, and all around bigoted and I didn't want to be associated with that. And my therapist responded with something along the lines of "that doesn't sound like proper behavior for anyone, regardless of their gender" and that comment helped me reframe my understanding that just because I am male does not mean I have to align myself with the negative/toxic traits commonly associated with being male. This video has brought me further understanding that it's not easy to figure out how to exist in the world, and when presented with a template for how to exist in such a way that brings success, fulfillment, and respect, it's hard not to follow that template when it doesn't seem like there are any other options. Thanks for opening up this discussion on masculinity.

[@DiamantisHell]

dude, I'm embarrassed to be human sometimes 😭 I'd be embarrassed too 💀

[@awkwardukulele6077]

mood. Being able to separate "man" from "toxic masculinity" is a huge step for dudes in getting to be their best selves. The fact that "Toxic Masculinity" would be toxic on ANYONE is one of the most under-stated facts when we have these discussions. It's not just that being bigoted and emotionally stunted is bad for men (Though it obviously is), its that those traits have NOTHING to do with men! Dudes aren't just hurting themselves, they're wasting time barking up the wrong tree when they view their masculinity in those terms.

[@eloelo6944]

No powodzenia, bądź lewakiem i betą czeka cię smutne życie

[@prayingmantis8148]

When people criticise men, it's hard not to feel like you are being criticised because you are a man, but as long as you don't do the thing they're criticising, you can just join in and criticise the men who do it. They're not saying "I hate men because they are men" they're usually saying "I hate when men do shitty things and so many men do it because of the way society as a whole views them" it's like, you have male privilege, you'll be treated differently because you are a man, but what you do with it will determine if people are talking about you when they talk about what men do and their roles in society. For example, if you find yourself at a table with mostly men and few women, and you notice the women aren't being listened to, you can decide if you want to hear them out or just ignore it, and when people criticise that, you'll either be like "oh shit I do take up their space because people are more willing to listen to men, I'm going to make space for them next time" or you can be like "yeah that sucks when they do that, it sure is good to not be like that" It sounds like you already know everything I just said but I'm not trying to explain anything to you I'm just agreeing with you.

[@eloelo6944]

@@prayingmantis8148 yes sure people don't listen to women lmao get the fuck out. There is no male priviledge in 2022.

[@annika8674]

The alpha wolf study also completely damaged and negatively affected the dog training world. For the longest time “dominance theory” was the most popular training method. Owners and professionals were basing all their training on this one study: A study of WOLVES for DOMESTICATED DOG training!?! Yes, all canids have certain similar behaviors (see Turid Rugaas' study about calming behaviors) but dogs are a totally different species with different dynamics. They are literally missing a certain gene which makes them friendlier than wolves. Now finally canine behaviorists and actual scientists are being listened too and it’s been proven that operant learning theory using mainly positive and negative reinforcement is most effective in dog behavior conditioning as well as understanding how dogs make positive and negative associations with stimuli. But, I still see and meet so many owners and “trainers” who only use dominance and punishment in their training without actually considering the dog’s psychology.

[@Dontstopbelievingman]

I grew up with those training theories and have left them behind, but every now and then I meet a - almost exclusively male, dog owner - who still believes he's the dog's alpha, and gets off on the fact (according to him) the dog doesn't listen to his wife because she below him in the pack. Makes me sick up in my mouth a little.

[@manicpepsicola3431]

Dogs and young children are basically the same you mostly need patience consistency and understanding

[@miglek9613]

@@manicpepsicola3431 hence why the people who abuse children tend to treat animals the same way

[@Mia199603]

You train cats the same way. Probably most animals learn like this, it's in their survival interest to do what leads to getting a snack, and not do what leads to being yelled at/feeling danger. I trained my cats well enough that when they hear me say "no" or speak in a certain annoyed tone - they stop whatever they were doing. The gluttonous one will even stop eating and look at me warily xD but please refrain from abuse... You'll only hurt the relationship with your pet and traumatize the poor baby

[@evil001987]

Of all the debates about alpha/beta males. I often wonder why the wolf study is so often referred to. The term alpha male is older than that. Even saying "wolves are not lead by an alpha male" doesnt make much sense if there isn't a thing such as alpha male. In fact there is such a thing as an alpha male, since there is, we can state that wolves societal structure isn't lead by one. Gorillas are a good example of a species where there is an alpha male, and the term is still being used. And also a good example of what is wrong with it. Gorialls are extremely far away from human society that you can't make direct comparisons. Furthermore, gorilla alpha males are often seen playing with children and showing a relatively soft side to their females in their pack, while aggressively fighting off competition . A gorilla alpha male is pretty far away from the view of human alpha males that many seems to have in some terms. If you look at other animals it gets even more extreme, for bononbo apes a similar societal order exists too, but there it's the females that are the leaders, not the males. For different birds it becomes even farther obscure, because their life and physiology is so different from humans that even translating the need for dominance cant be translated. All in all; alpha males does exists in some animals, but it also doesnt exists on some animals. Taking one animal societal structure as proof of alpha males in humans doesn't make much sense at all. Just like you are saying, taking an idea of alpha males in wild wolves and trying to transfer it to domesticated dogs, doesn't make much sense. Just like taking the wild gorillaa societal structure and trying to apply it to civilised humans doesn't make any sense at all. The threats and needs for a group of gorillas are way different than humans in modern day world, therefore if there would be such a thing as human alpha males their role and behaviour would be different.

[@jennyjune9667]

Man I feel bad for the dude who did the wolf experiment cause imagine you fuck up ONCE and you go ahead and try to right you wrongs but no🤦🏼‍♀️ the incels found it and now we have male astrology

[@thatwaffleguy4958]

"I replace a tire on a car. Doesn't mean I'm a mechanic. I make dinner. Doesn't mean I'm a chef. But I suck one di-" Same vibe.

[@maijensen3317]

🤣

[@NeroMai]

Showing kindness to people who have lost their last ounce of sense should be an Olympic sport. It's hard to save people who can't see the wrong in themselves. Their best bet is to be humbled by life. It would be nice if people could catch the early signs of ideologies like this, so they can be challenged and dismantled before someone gets lost in deep

[@mightymeatymech]

Its not too hard! I think my brother might have gone down this route, if it wasn't for his mom and me explaining historical instances of sexism, as well as me beating him a couple times in some games (he said I couldn't win with all girl characters heheh) He's only 14 but he's already got a better head on his shoulders than many of these manosphere men. No shaming required, just a bit of education and reminding him to have empathy :) Now he writes all sorts of stuff, and his stories are filled with great representation of women, men, queer characters, etc etc. Couldn't be prouder :) Edit-- obviously we got lucky in that we got to nip it in the bud before his tenth birthday lol. Not sure how to approach grown men who still think like this, I'll get back to you when I finally Fix One /hj

[@jimjimson6208]

@@mightymeatymech I think as with many things having good parents and a good childhood is super important. If parents have toxic ideologies then their children probably will too, and vice versa. Like you said I don't know how to get through to adults with these heavily entrenched beliefs though. Although I wager most of these people probably won't have children, so maybe they will breed themselves out or something idk lol

[@alyssapinon9670]

If it was a sport Kuncan would have a gold medal because goddamn I’ve never seen someone with such a great balance of empathy and firmness

[@grazielaalmeida8438]

We can do nothing unless wait the result of manosphere, MGTOW and red pill culture 10 years from now. We gonna see tons of men and women mentally broken, there are some women out there that support manosphere, they gonna end up being wives to very selfish men, that want to feel like a little god at home.

[@MK_ULTRA420]

@@mightymeatymech Tbh you and your mom's behavior will reinforce his misogyny when he considers it to be equality.

[@c1nnamodoll]

the "legacy" thing always weirded me out. when i came out as trans to my mom, she burst into tears complaining about "what about my legacy ??" your legacy ?? your legacy is being genetically more susceptible to anxiety ?? 😭 i never understood it tbh

[@mothboy420]

i HATE the cultural norm / pressures to 1. have kids to be a good kid and/or valuable to your family and the world 2. have BIOLOGICAL kids of your own?? Because somehow your specific DNA is just *that* special? the idea that the purpose of adulthood is to reproduce is so animalistic and warped to me

[@kai_maceration]

I feel this so hard, when I was 10 I wanted to have a bunch of kids just like my mom, but I've since realized that just wouldn't be a good idea. I don't want to put a kid through the emotional turmoil my mom unintentionally put me through.

[@maichai13]

She is correct. 2 generations down the line your direct blood line will not exist. And that is fine if that's what you want. But I don't see how it is hard to understand from her point of view. It's your choice and I personally respect others people's choice but you can make a choice and understand what your mom is saying, not saying you have to care about what's she's saying.

[@seraphcreed840]

@@maichai13 This was a very professional and thought out response. A+ for consideration.

[@seraphcreed840]

I barely feel like I fit or have a place in the world. I feel that level of personal... Etherealness? The lack of substance for who I myself am would be cruel to bring new life into with. My parents did drugs for many many years. When dad was clean his addiction turned to work and he was never home. Mom lost her battle to addiction. So for me, I have always seen myself as an addict and that is my only major defining characteristic. I have never done drugs, but I was raised being CONSTANTLY told "Your parents are addicts, don't forget that." and "You are awful addicted to _______" when it was really just an appreciation for games, or soda. So Tl;DR I do not wish to bring a child into this world if I myself never found a place to belong. Why force them to fight the same empty battle?

[@caseymckenna7111]

“Nobody Asked, But I’m Gonna Insert Myself Into Things” is actually a great name for an alpha male podcast, just sayin.

[@roramdin]

Lovely video Duncan. Always so glad to hear your boundless empathy and insight.

[@karlarao8736]

Oh hi Ro!

[@myactualnameis9996]

HI RO

[@letsboogiewoogie719]

rose!!

[@TransWomanTalksOnYouTube]

Ay

[@letsboogiewoogie719]

@@TransWomanTalksOnKZbin ay

[@p1nnysk3n1s]

Agree for other men, but as a woman it’s not my job to subject myself to misogyny in order to try and prevent it. I’ve dealt with this shit way too much already to throw myself back into it. There’s a difference about fighting for a concept and fighting for your own humanity. It’s a very different thing to ask of a woman vs a man

[@KuncanDastner]

You're absolutely right, other people have pointed this out to me and I think it's a very good point to bring up!

[@cori742]

duncan consistently creates the most empathetic, thoughtful videos i’ve seen from this commentary niche that i already greatly enjoy. i really admire his willingness to thoroughly explore an issue and attempt to see every side - i always feel like i’m raising my eq when i watch one of these videos. great job dude, keep it up!!

[@queendeborah14172]

He’s so underrated 😔

[@laurencarlson1235]

Exactly!! I love his empathy and thoughtfulness

[@miss_chelles1338]

If you want your iq to be raised more, I suggest checking out F.D signifier's video called "dissecting the manosphere" . he also makes good content about this subject. There's also a part two coming up so imma look out for that. 👀 😂

[@laurencarlson1235]

Miss_Chelles omg I love him!!!!

[@Wh0reRacha]

Duncan I really have to say I admire the way you think and your empathy for people who most of us think don’t deserve empathy or the time of day, you find a way to turn this whole conversation around to try and make it a more positive one. Especially that last part really got me and showed me that i picked the right youtuber to be my favorite! (Sorry if my English is weird I'm German but I hope I got my point across) love ya :) Also as a german i apologize for mr. Wolf study

[@johndoe4110]

just wanted to let you know dont worry about your English, it was all grammatically correct and I wouldn't have known you weren't a native speaker if you hasn't mentioned it :) your English is way better than my German

[@sunnyandthechlo]

God do I agree. I am SO disenchanted and disappointed with the human race when it comes to this crap and it gets dark. Guys like Duncan and the very few men I keep near me in my life are the light that sparks the tiny amount of hope that I need on this subject. Maybe it can get better.

[@Wh0reRacha]

@@johndoe4110 aww thank you :))

[@susanschubert1222]

I didn’t even realize English was a second language for you until you brought it up. I hope to one day be as good at Spanish as you are at English

[@Wh0reRacha]

@@susanschubert1222 aww so sweet thank you :))

[@NotAriaDontLookAtMyName]

When I was little, I watched onision. (I’m a 16 year old girl atm) he gave me serious body issues and insecurities at a very young age but thankfully people like you, commentary youtubers. Exposed him for who he truly is for me and they didn’t demonise people like me. I can only hope a similar thing happens for the Alfa fans watching this video 💕

[@Connorscarlos]

I also agreed with Onision in some things when I was an impressionable teenager, so I can imagine this alpha male mindset being engrained on some people, I hope they’re able to get out of it like I did.

[@kesartedaer]

This feels like a documentary. I love it. More kuncumentaries, please.

[@Tree-Salmon]

yes, but PLEASE don't call them kuncumentaries 💀

[@kesartedaer]

@@Tree-Salmon dunkumentaries then

[@deactivatedbcsomecommentsi2279]

kuncumentary sounds like a fake tumblr word im sorry

[@JulianSteve]

LOL "kuncumentaries"😭!

[@alexx5064]

dunkunentaries!! holy shit that’s amazing

[@CthulhusBFF2]

I’m personally thankful that in late high school/early college when I was still new to dating and relationships that I stumbled upon the Savage Lovecast. I wish I could just recommend it to these young insecure guys as an alternative source of advice/guidance but I suspect a lot of em would not even give it a chance because it’s by a gay man.

[@peachy_lili]

gonna slide in before somebody mentions his past transphobia just to say he's been overall a huge help to young people, but I'm not sure if the ink is dry on whether he'll be transphobic again in the future, so watch out for him a little bit. not 100% sure he won't go full JK Rowling on us if the Twitter mob pushes him hard enough.

[@jenkinsjrjenkins]

When you started talking about the goal of discussing the topic with converting the targeted demographic in mind, it reminded me a lot of Contrapoints. Her reddit is always filled with people who credit her with getting them out of the red pill trenches. I think its her gentle introduction to potentially combative ideas that slowly unravel the basic beliefs of people in that mindset.

[@EllaShartiel]

Exactly what I was thinking. I think in her case it's also how she does give the worldview she's criticizing a place in the video, which makes the people who believe in it feel both validated and challenged. Also she's so funny, that helps a lot. And her beautiful beautiful sets and looks. God I love her videos.

[@alyssapinon9670]

I think it also helps that she used to be incredibly misogynystic pre-transition so she knows what the other side feels like. It helps me feel less stupid for not knowing certain things right away because she wasn’t always in the places she’s at now.

[@StinaaNatuurlijk]

@ibis are not bin chickens! why's that? haven't seen many vids of her

[@read8062]

as a cis woman, deffinetly identify with delta airlines the most

[@chriswp50]

Feel like an omicron variant male ngl

[@crystalcastillo7575]

What kind of emojis are those LMAOOO

[@read8062]

@@crystalcastillo7575 stopp Im on this acer laptop bro its what i have to work with

[@meridzs]

@@read8062 no your emojis are so great i'm jealous

[@crystalcastillo7575]

@@read8062 no no don’t feel bad, haha they’re great. I was just curious. They look like my DS ones 😭. I like them.

[@knaylor_]

you're telling me being American Airlines isn't the highest you can get in society??? I can't believe this.

[@cinnamontoastcrunch1666]

I was shocked too I fell to the ground crying that is how shocked I was

[@Greeeenmoss]

I mean there is international space station, or voyager 🤷

[@itsgabibelle]

please continue the “wake up! it’s a scam” series i love it

[@sumlem]

F D Signifier, Tee Noir, and Contrapoints have made excellent videos about men, the manosphere and the fact that there really isn't an end-all-be-all solution to the deeply rooted issues brought by "alpha" thinking. Commentary channels make quick dunks and itch the urge to laugh at bozos, but at the very core, it's dangerous to everyone if we don't analyze why we consume the content we do. It's usually because we feel helpless to fix the problem, have experienced real pain from men entrenched into this thought, and/or haven't thought about the intersectional issues at play. It's so complex and uncomfortable to grant empathy for men sometimes. You can't always change someone's mind, but an individual can put forth the constant effort, the empathetic work, to help and heal from these issues because it affects everyone.

[@AaronYorkYT]

I love that duncan literally broke the concept of alpha male tutorials by explaining how it makes LITERALLY 0 SENSE

[@KattReen]

Wolves actually kind of are good role models in some ways. Most male wolves choose to stick around to help raise the offspring, to protect the group and help hunt. It's a huge benefit to the entire group that a lot of male wolves prefer sticking around as a fun brother or uncle to the cubs to share some of the adult responsibility rather than take a lot of risk to have even more responsibility by trying to find a mate and starting their own pack, since there's strength in numbers. Wolves are also known to care for their injured and elderly. No when is left behind when possible. Almost everything they do, is collaborative. The success of the pack relies on there being male wolves that are happy to just be part of the family, contribute, and get the benefits of a collaborative dynamic without having to step into a leadership role. That the wolves that aren't parents are of less value or having to settle for less in some manner is an assertion about wolves based on a human framework of beliefs and values. That every wolf is not as driven in passing their genes on is a benefit that is maybe just in their genetic code by now since it's so massively beneficial, and that the parental pair is often more assertive and "dominant" is probably driven by the instinct to protect and care for their offspring more than anything else. There are a lot of things about wolves that we can relate to human social dynamics, it's super weird to water it down to a framework that only really hones in on dominance and try to bro-science it into an excuse for opression or toxic masculinity. It simultaneously dumbs down wolves and people.

[@artorhen]

You'd think that should be normal for people to do as well

[@Jedimess]

I'm so ready for 40 minutes of Kunc

[@bhagavad-gitakarma1604]

"A man that speaks in a video for 40 minutes is a Delta Airline male which is worse than a Beta" -Alpha Male Community

[@JulianSteve]

Yes, it was a great deep dive💯

[@basementdwellercosplay]

As a nonbinary AFAB, I am an omega red or a Zeta-Jones, it depends on a day

[@laurentsaint-laurent3659]

Generally agree.. But it's not just about "curing" those already "infected" with this mindset, it is at least as important to propose a viable alternative.. the (mainly) young guys in their audience have questions, interrogations so it is important to offer them alternatives.. Also, the goal of videos making fun/dunking/debunking this alpha mindset is not just to change the mind of their fans, it's also to make them less attractive to the even younger boys who aren't there yet and to propose something better, healthier, more realistic & welcoming and attractive.

[@oddmofo]

Videos like this is why I like the channel. You become the voice of reason that people need to get out of their echo chambers, and actually look at the topic from a different perspective, in search to fix the problem. At the end of the day, the most important goal should be the betterment of all of us, not to "win" over others.

[@andreaf8404]

exactly!!

[@kymfrancis4612]

As a psychologist, my first thought at ‘alpha males’ especially, self declared alphas is profound self loathing & very insecure🤔

[@cocogoat1111]

I thought you were gonna say "If alpha's are so successful with women then why do they hate women so much?" Seriously, all self-proclaimed alpha's are just as pathetic as incels.

[@susanschubert1222]

There’s a quote I like that I feel puts it well: “Any fool knows that bravado is always a cover-up for insecurity. That's the truth. And on that note, I'll say goodnight. God love you.” -Bobby Darin

[@madeofmeat9961]

I always find it funny when left-wing people, who like to hold themselves out as the compassionate side if the political spectrum, actually show they are just as full of vitriol and/or contempt as the right-wing. How do you think the incels became incels? It happens when a young man feels rejected by society at every turn, which leads to 0 self worth and inevitably deep seated resentment. An actual compassionate person might feel inclined to reach out a hand to pull them out of their dark place, but then again, why bothet. They're pathetic and deserve to suffer after all.

[@andrewkoster6506]

They're the same people. In order to sell this "alpha" bullshit, these creators have to cultivate an incel community.

[@AdelTheForsaken]

They hate the woman they can't have and they hate the women that aren't pretty enough for them to touch. Too many people want things they can't have and are unworthy of. If these men with quick batting out of their league they might have better luck but then again five don't date other fives.....

[@andrewkoster6506]

@@AdelTheForsaken People who think of themselves as "fives" might not date other people that they think of as "fives", but that says a lot more about their weird mindset than it says about anyone's attractiveness.

[@5am_nightmares]

To me, most traits attributed to alphas are way more scary than attractive. Yes, a strong, dominating man might be able to protect me - but he’s even more capable of harming me. I love me a soft, small soyboy beta 🥺❤️

[@divine6867]

id feel much more protected by a bean stalk ass boy than any “alpha man”.

[@bananawitchcraft]

100%. I trust guys more when they seem in touch with their feminine side. Liking cats is often a good sign.

[@luciskies]

100% agreed. In a relationship with a great guy for almost 3 years and he’s a softie :3

[@kattodoggo3868]

I love me a femboy👀

[@LoneWulf278]

Yes, this is extremely common for women. We tend to be attracted to men who exhibit more vulnerability. This has literally been proven so many times, but for some reason, men insist on saying otherwise. 😂

[@7BUGS]

absolutely love this video, and it hits a bit differently as a young adult who just started testosterone. navigating who i am and what men i can look up to is hard enough at 19, i cant imagine how confusing and demanding trying to get through male puberty is for actual child aged guys. really proud of any and all men receptive to this video and discussion, and thank you duncan!

[@laurat1012]

The crossover between ‘alpha males’ and straight up misogynists is unsurprisingly large.

[@shytendeakatamanoir9740]

It's not a Venn diagram, it's just a circle

[@phosspatharios9680]

I have never seen an "alpha male" that is not misogynistic. So, as far as I know, "alpha" and "misogynist" are synonyms

[@laurat1012]

@@shytendeakatamanoir9740 HAHA

[@seraphcreed840]

Boys are really often instructed to believe "You must never show emotion." and "You need to fix all your problems alone." I feel like alpha male mentality fuels off that concept. Men try to find a way to self improve, and instead self sabatoge following bad advice. It isn't ignorance on the part of those wishing to learn that is so bad. It is staying ignorant that does the damage to them and the people they should care about.

[@modmaker7617]

These so-called "alpha males" hurt everyone. Insecure males get psychological brain damage and females get misogynist attacks.

[@AmyMason757]

I think your overall argument is the exact same one that many leftists have been saying for years about reforming anyone with "bad opinions". Treating people with compassion rather than treating them like scum is the best way to move somebody over to a position/mindset thats better for them.

[@verminlord666]

yes let's coddle and have empathy for the vile violent misogynist trash that plagues society so true just what we need 💕

[@AmyMason757]

@@verminlord666 I used to be on the trajectory towards becoming a violent bigot. It was because I had people who cared about me despite my extremely obvious flaws that I wasn't radicalised further. If you just ditch anyone with a "wrong" opinion, that is how they become dangerous. Did you not watch the video at all?

[@notaburneraccount]

@@verminlord666 you're missing the point. these "alphas" are influencing young and impressionable people, in turn them feeling like someone understands them. that's dangerous. mocking these people who they end up aligning themselves with gives them no reason to want to change what they believe. messaging is powerful and if it's presented ineffectively, we're kind of just shooting ourselves in the foot.

[@someonesomeone3729]

@@verminlord666 i think for a lot of people who have been victims of the patriarchy and these kinds of humans in general, that’s a fair standpoint to have. we have every right to hate these disgusting people who don’t regard us in any capacity as humans, you shouldn’t have to be nice to them. but it is the best way to approach this topic and reach someone, get them to understand because unfortunately being mean doesn’t help someone who’s deep in stuff like this and only lights the fire more, and sometimes that isn’t the tske we ALL have to have, it’s just the take if you care about reaching these people in any capacity. but that doesn’t mean every person has to feel this way! you’re allowed to be spiteful and angry with those who have hurt you, personally or by contributing to this horrific system.

[@artorhen]

Why does anyone have to coerce them to make other choices. It's their choices, and those choices have their consequences 🤷‍♀️. It's up to them if they like being that way or some other way. At some point in life, people, and there's plenty of adults that lean into these ideas, should know where to go in life without just repeating like a monkey everything they see.

[@LunaWitcherArt]

The thing is, people keep saying "oh it's not your responsibility to change someone's mind" but if EVERYONE treated it like their responsibility to at least treat people with kindness and guide them gently to see the error of their ways, people in general would probably not feel so scared about being wrong and/or needing to change.

[@honeybrew5722]

But here's the thing tho, some people, especially those who are causing the problems, simply don't want to change and we have to accept that. Change can only happen if the individual wants to change. Yes, showing kindness and guidance does help people who are lost, but they have to be willing to put in the work themselves first.

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

Yea… but i am done trying when all those men do is ignore me. Hurl insults. And even threats. They dont wanna listen. They won't listen. Its up to men now. Afab/women are just putting ourselves in even more harms way

[@sophiarigali2451]

A non commenter here to push engagement. I really appreciate this video and hope that it can help people who are caught it these cycles. Really, it’s quite tragic, these sorts of ideology’s push out mass murders at a disturbing rate. I just think men should be allowed relax and figure themselves out without the pressure of a ridiculous standard. You don’t need a relationship to be a man, you don’t need lots of money to be a man, you don’t need to be super buff to be a man, you don’t need to sleep with lots of women to be a man, you don’t need mass amounts of power to be a man.

[@Haz2288]

But we all want to be in a loving relationship. I think men gravitate to the manosphere because AT LEAST it pretends to want to solve their problems. Alpha podcasters say "get jacked and make more money", and *it actually improves their dating life*. Of course they tune in. Feminists say "You don't actually need the things you want, just chill out and be happy and it'll come to you". It's a naive solution that doesn't address the guy's issues from his perspective. Why would the guy abandon what works?

[@artorhen]

@Kyle Johnson well the truth is also that something like a loving relationship doesn't just sprout out of nowhere, nor is anyone supposed to give it to you. There is no fast way of getting it either, like you could maximize the search for it like a video game, go to the gym repeatedly, do things that you may not care about or enjoy but just because someone told you that it might get your chances higher, date like 10 women at the same time etc. But that won't actually give you a loving relationship faster. Maybe you meet different people that serve as a distraction for a while, or that rush from one person to another just like you and wind up passing by people that could be that person. All of these steps are meaningless and could lead to self loathing because they don't represent the personality of someone. You just do them for this one reason, so you'll never be fulfilled. The best way to find the right person eventually, especially in a time where everything is done fast and superficial, is to stop and look around, to stop and engage with people regardless of whether it will lead you to any goal, to understand more about the world, to learn more empathy, and to focus on learning who you are as well in a genuine sense, so that you also know what you are even looking for in the first place. There is not mechanical way of getting human connection, you just have to connect with people, all sorts of people and be genuine with them.

[@limonx6778]

Man... just yesterday I thought nothing was worth it and would never be the man I should be, but you gave me hope. If I ever go down another depressive episode like that, I'll try and think about your words. Thank you so much

[@FeministCatLadySpinster]

I've seen a few videos recently talking about "alpha males" in a more... I'm not sure how to describe it. Complex? way than just making a commentary video, and I think that's really needed. I also think that there are some things men just don't want/can't hear from women, so it's really encouraging to see this content from men. All that to say... thank you for making this video.

[@frankfriendsproductions891]

Not even a computer virus can stop Kuncan 💪💪💪💪

[@kp735]

Firstly, a great video as always, it was worth the wait. Second, I think this shines a light on one aspect of how men’s mental health can be so stigmatized and the affects that has on men, especially young men. They don’t feel that they can speak up about their insecurities, and these podcasts and instagram accounts reinforce that idea. And what’s even more insidious is that we’ve seen how young men slide deeper and deeper into these harmful ideologies because they are told to suppress and internalize their feelings, only to be taken in by any number of radical or extreme groups that push them even further away from reality and from a healthy mindset. You can find them in online forums where people romanticize gun violence or speak about some upcoming race war or demonize jews, any number of harmful ideas that all stem from the same thoughts promoted by these alpha podcasts, namely “the world can be easily and decisively divided into categories based on arbitrary traits that are outside of any individual person’s control,” and “it’s the other group’s fault that you can’t live up to these standards, they’re the ones trying to drag you down.” So I agree with saying that these podcasts probably aren’t a direct cause for the types of violence we continue to see young men enacting, but they can act as a gateway to it. I also think approaching with empathy and treating these alpha podcast subscribers as people trying to be seen and understood is helpful, it’s a big part of the deradicalization process that is used to save people from hate groups and conspiracy echo chambers. I hope this video can help someone escape that cycle as well. And I hope more people offer alternatives rather than just mocking alphas, because that can drive people deeper into the community in search of validation rather than convince them to explore healthier mindsets.

[@kp735]

Oops I wrote too much again, hope someone found this interesting

[@elenarodb9613]

Preach!!!

[@Romanticoutlaw]

most of them have dropped the specific terms because it's poison, but I still get a huge kick pretending that they're talking about the omegaverse

[@migoreng7789]

i'm glad your computer cooperated and we get to watch another masterpiece 😔🙏🙏

[@charlieh4607]

real cool to hear a cis guy talk about and engage with masculinity the way i also think of it. love that you stress that its not an individual's responsibility to save ppl but it's simultaneously important to reach out that helping hand where u can

[@laurencarlson1235]

Duncan is insanely empathetic and so thoughtful. I am so grateful for people like him

[@HarrietRosie13]

I really recommend the book Men Who Hate Women by Laura Bates. She looks into a lot of these online misogynistic communities like the 'pick up artist' community and how they suck people in and can lead them down paths to radicalisation. Stuff like these podcasts are easy to laugh at but they really are a kind of gateway into some extremely toxic places and they need to be taken more seriously.

[@Overseer2579]

I actually read that book because of this comment. Highly disturbing, but highly important. Thank you for the recommendation

[@ladylarry75]

i really like this video, i have two small kids and im constantly thinking about how i can parent them in a way where they dont grow up to make terrible podcasts, or be terrible people.

[@MintyVoid]

As someone who feels like a lost cause and have 6ft under self esteem ( tho more cause im neurodiverse) every single person deserves respect and compassion. Even the most evil do, there is a reason why getting angry or harsh dicipline doesnt work no matter the age. What works is positive renforcement and teaching critical thinking plus giving them resources to succeed. Even just asking 'why?' genuinly to help them get to the actual source of the emotion.

[@xryxix]

Yeah, everyone can learn. It's messed up how people will profit via misinformation campaigns. Things can be better for sure. What we put out in this world matters

[@TheElectricitychick]

Honestly more men need to lead by example and have this kind of approach and promote healthy thinking. I think women take the opposite approach bc we want to protect each other from these types of men that many of us have had bad experiences w. we want to protect each other by explicitly stating what boundaries should be respected and what shouldn't be tolerated. ppl like Drew Afualo are like protectors standing up to bullies. these may seem like dweeby men but way too many women have been abused or have had their boundaries disrespected by men like this. the media certainly doesn't help teach healthy ways to navigate relationships and often does the opposite. I really hope more men make content that is actually helpful, healthy, and feminist targeting a younger male audiences who cannot get it anywhere else. content that teaches how to respect boundaries and consent, with other ppl and themselves. how to avoid being the abuser and how to identify if someone is abusing them. this is why feminism is important and men have neglected their part in it. bc it isn't men vs women, its fighting a history of a toxic patriarchy that women have been fighting against for centuries but not enough men have taken the responsibility of dismantling what not only affects women but what also affects men. thank you for this

[@Haz2288]

> this is why feminism is important and men have neglected their part in it I don't think feminism takes young men's relationship problems seriously. These guys would readily become feminists if it did anything for them. Why don't feminists leaders honestly explore why young men are having such a hard time dating?

[@docingraham]

"how to avoid being the abuser and how to identify if someone is abusing them." Woah... given the context that's some proper gaslight-ception... Trippy.

[@trashcan8686]

@@Haz2288 I think feminism only understands women's struggles, but not men's struggles.

[@artorhen]

@Trash Can could be cause when you look at deliberate ill intent, you don't consider it a struggle. Like if I said that I am struggling not to punch you, would you call it a struggle and feel bad for me?

[@bubzy3d50]

Love this video, as a young man who did go down a similar dark path but was saved from that a couple years ago, I absolutely agree with your points. Also if you ever feel like deconstructing a similar mindset I would definitely recommend you talk about Isaac Butterfield, I'm genuinely shocked that so few people have criticised him given how popular he is and how much harm he's done Edit: I'm a dumbass and didn't know Mr beard and Noah Samson made videos on him

[@exploringhorrorhuey]

bro i needed to hear this cuz i was on the edge.

[@felicity1111]

I’m glad you didn’t fall into their trap. It’s so sad seeing them get so sad about their lives when no one ends up liking them.

[@NoKidsNoProblem]

My brother recently started listening to Andrew Tate and has shared some of the things he heard from them thinking that its sound advice. I talk to him and try to reason with him showing how that kind of thinking and mindset is harmful and counterproductive. It's not easy doing this, but I am doing my best. Thank you for making this video Kuncan, it's very insightful.

[@mgen278]

I’m late to the game but after the whole Moist/Sneako thing that just happened, I saw Hasan recommend your vid on the latter & am now binging. You prob won’t see this, but I love your content. You clever, insightful & funny. I look forward to watching your future videos 😊What I’ve noticed so far is your consistent call for empathy & humanity toward everyone & that is such a huge thing in this world today. A lot of people ask me why I’m so glad I don’t live in the u.s. anymore I respond that ‘being an asshole all the time is exhausting’. It is possible to to be kind & empathetic in the u.s., I just ran out of steam. Creators like you give me faith❤ (Signed, a very old ex-SF resident who has returned to a country with socialised medical care)

[@TheZatzman]

Videos like yours are important Duncan. While some dudes are "in too deep" with this toxic junk, there are some who might be "dabbling"/"on the fence". Speaking to their concerns with empathy and showing them a positive way to move forward (with how you've done so in this video) - can definitely reach a like-minded individual. Dunking on shitheads is fun, but tends to create an "us vs them" tribal mentality which serves mostly as entertainment that validates one's preconceptions. Showing someone a positive way of thinking or a healthier form of "masculinity" is much more productive IMO. Thanks for your insight and sharing your personal experiences, Duncan.

[@tecc]

You know the comment section on a video is a safe space when the omegaverse community is getting some of the top comments on a video on Alpha males.

[@Jerrytheworm]

I think this is a time for men especially to step up because sometimes it can be unsafe for women and trans folks to put themselves into some situations with these sexist dudes

[@KuncanDastner]

I agree!! I wish I’d remembered to jump on that topic in the script but this is definitely something that male commentary sources have a good chance to help out with, I’m hoping that’s a trend we start to see happening more!

[@Andrewbait]

We shoulnd't do it for the safety of women or trans folks instead to alieviate the sufferuing of men that are stuck in such cycles because of mental health,alienation & other socio-economic factors.

[@Macheako]

Absolutely. I think men should always help women fight their battles for em

[@anaionescu8913]

@@Andrewbait well, helping men gain healthier mentalities ultimately helps EVERYONE, but it's still a good thing to have in mind the most vulnerable potential victims of their unhealthy mentalities

[@Andrewbait]

@@anaionescu8913 "let's help poor back people so that whites are safe"

[@lindseydrew9812]

You really stand out to me in the commentary community and as a content creator in general. Most content creators who share your beliefs are platformed by highlighting how ridiculous these people are. Don’t get me wrong I enjoy that content. But the empathetic perspective you add highlights how “haha let’s make fun of these losers” can leave people feeling hopeless. Your constant striving towards positive change and giving your audience actionable steps is a ray of sunshine within the abyss of the negativity echo chamber. Thank you.

[@migoreng7789]

11:50 that room smells funky, i just know

[@ettaz]

Why do these guys always have like 17 of them crammed into a definitely too small room that looks like a gym basement. Most of them never even say a word, it's usually the 2-3 main dudes (alphas - heh :)) who speak, the rest are what? Emotional support bros?

[@Apples765]

When I saw that I immediately burst out laughing, idk why but I was not expecting so many men so cramped up in a small role.

[@certifiedboghopper9622]

the first shot of them all perched around the table feels like a parody of the Last Supper painting

[@beagotm9318]

This is why you're my favorite creator, you include your empathy in your videos and address each conversation with carefullness. You are mindful of the audience and reasonable with your commentary, and i much prefer this type of conversation than one that just simply is used for comedy purposes.

[@lamington775]

i got really excited when i saw this was 40 minutes long, because you speak with such empathy and instead of putting people down, you encourage your audience to help them. i think social media algorithms also play a role in perpetuating toxic masculinity, it's so easy to get sucked down a rabbithole of rage and hatred towards either yourself or others. the more you watch it the more you think it makes sense. thank you kuncan!

[@redtape9484]

Fantastic point! If someone you know opens up about regretting these beliefs, dont laugh at them, dont push them back in the box, offer a hand and a gentle discussion, and reassurance

[@newhopeelena]

So for the next 40 minutes I know what I'll be doing. I just wanted to thank you Duncan for almost a year of watching your content every week. This was the hardest and most stressful year of my life and I am very thankful to have a little comfort every Thursday because of you. Or you know every 6 moths when you post on the podcast lol :) love you

[@kaykay1570]

💚

[@JulianSteve]

I hope everything is getting better, Elena :)

[@newhopeelena]

@@JulianSteve thank you, it will, eventually

[@fraktaalimuoto]

I once met someone who called himself an Alpha. I almost laughed out loud at his face.

[@EepyGreens]

How's his life going so far?

[@hannahcpenner]

healthy masculinity is the antidote, and your content epitomizes healthy masculinity, therefore your content is the antidote. can't argue with that logic!!

[@dwaynethecuckjohnson2.08]

What would you define as "healthy masculinity" in real terms?

[@artorhen]

@Dwayne the Cuck Johnson 2.0 not being a terrible person.

[@FlyToTheRain]

this was fantastic, thanks for it. in a maybe not so related sort of way, its making me reflect on my career as a special ed teacher and how negative people can get about kids not meeting grade level standards. preaching the importance of the goal, how discrepant they are from that, and then proceeding to force feed the content without providing any sort of foundation for the information to stand on... how about instead of all of that, we just meet people right where they're at and then go from there. its so disheartening to sit down at a conference and celebrate the growth a kid has made only for someone to punctuate the meeting with "well they're still not on grade level". maybe im just spouting my own nonsense but seeing some kids get so discouraged before they even enter middle school... no wonder they seek out an alternative authority.

[@graysonspyker3119]

This kind of video is the reason I subscribed to this channel. Duncan, your genuine, rigid faith in people having the ability to become better and your willingness to hold the door open for them is something that I think is the true meaning of being a good person. Thank you for this video.

[@lizzienorton5154]

I don’t really have an issue with these popular content creators being so openly against the alpha mindset in any form and making them an object of ridicule, but I love the direction your channel has been heading with the deeper and ultimately more impactful commentary. Highly recommend the contrapoints “Men” video to anyone who enjoyed this one! As mentioned elsewhere in the comments, there are amazing new videos from F.D Signifier and Tee Noir on this topic as well. Also, the more broad commentary on the structure of these other commentary videos you mentioned was interesting because I’ve been seeing a similar discussion happening on twitter and tiktok recently and I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing because their videos are often primarily comedic and less actual political takes, but it does sometimes frustrate me as someone who tends to prefer videos with a bit more of a thesis.

[@reffa2858]

People will criticize the entire manosphere but not offer an alternative.

[@zinaw33na]

i just hate that we hv to sympathize with and “protect” these young boys when women and anyone who isn’t a man is negatively affected by their actions. women (and queer ppl) are just as if not more insecure than these young boys as we grow up due to societal standards of mysogyny and homophobia that exist literally everywhere(the homophobia is definitely more blatant). yet we don’t resort to such measures of treatment toward men because we don’t exist in a world in which we are the standard. we don’t naturally feel that we can be superior to men because the opposite narrative has been shoved down our throats. i think it’s clear that the way both sides react to insecurity is different and with men it’s so unacceptable. so why ought we as oppressed groups nurture and aid the “oppressors” while they are actively spreading negative/oppressive rhetoric abt us? i get that they are practically being brainwashed but i swear if women were in their position it would be ridiculous to most to support such nonsense double standards. it’s giving me the same vibes as giving ppl like racists the benefit of the doubt and teaching them because they were taught their beliefs. ik this isn’t wat ur saying and i agree w ur point, its just so frustrating that it’s on oppressed ppls shoulders to fix the oppressors. it’s also so hard to get them to listen to us as they don’t even view us as being on the same level as them. hope this makes sense.

[@maimtubeTV]

wow. so i can tell you right now that the hours of work you put into this were absolutely worth it. this video provides so much insight, and such a concrete breakdown of what drives fans of these podcasts to subscribe to their ideologies. i used to be a part of a harmful ideology like this, and i think this issue is one of the most detrimentally undiscussed problems of the modern day. people (especially those who didn't grow up with the internet) don't realize just how many young people are being indoctrinated into extreme ideas like this - i mean, they talk about it, but in the mainstream there isn't a deep understanding of how and why this happens yet. there's a lot i could say here, but i'll keep it to my personal insights involving the video's points. the descent into these views is slow and gradual, and consistently born of insecurity. when you're in it, no matter how many arguments you hear against it, you don't budge because everyone on the "inside" of the ideology tells you that everyone else is wrong and vilifies them to no end. personally, i was in so deep that it's miraculous i got out. none of my friends said anything at the time because of how aggressively i would respond, and honestly, i can't even say that i would have been receptive to a polite discussion. i am very lucky to still be able to call those people my friends today. functionally, these ideologies work similar to something like an abusive relationship or a cult. it's genuinely scary and im glad to hear someone point out how blindly making fun of this without pointing out the larger issue can be a bit ignorant. one thing i can say as someone who experienced this and recovered is that the one thing that finally helped was when it weighed too much on my mental health and i completely cut off every source of this rhetoric. my best piece of advice for anyone going through this, or even anything that may seem similar to this, is to take away sources of this ideology for a while, just try to live life and not think about it. can't guarantee this will work for everyone but for me, i started to bounce back within months, and by the time a year had passed i was mostly recovered. also, for anyone reading this, i urge you to remember: this kind of thing can happen with ANY ideology, not just right-wing, although right-wing is most common and arguably more harmful. this is already getting pretty long so im going to cut it off here, but if anyone has any questions for me please let me know! i am very open to discussion about this. thank you duncan for an amazing video, you've outdone yourself with this one :)

[@SmellyBones]

Aside from more hair and hormones, what's the difference between a grown-ass man who "takes charge and takes what he wants" and a toddler to whom everything is "Mine!"?

[@thijsjong]

These boys upto 25-30 were being kind and polite to women. They have been raised to be like that by mom. And it never got them into a loving caring relationship. It is the piling up of multiple rejections. Then they go the oposite way. Listen to fresh and fit. Fresh and Fit sets them up for failure. But that was were they were going anyway.

[@Albinojackrussel]

Being nice and polite to people shouldn't be contingent on being paid in sex/romance. Its a base level for being a decent person. If all someone has going for them is that they're kind and polite, why would I date them? That's a minimum to be an acquaintance I don't find unpleasant to be around

[@BartimaeusTrilogyFan]

Thank you so much for this. It is endlessly saddening to me how many people will be lost to these communities, to being groomed into a state of miserable self loathing.

[@l.b.5891]

On an unrelated note but I love your backgrounds, all the little trinkets to look at, they really make the space feel yours and as a fellow ADHDer I relate to that tremendously! Much respect for trying to keep your spaces clean for your video's!

[@UdoADHD]

When I was a teenage girl, I bought into the rhetoric of “the game”, even though I was really offended with some of the concepts. I agreed with the general sentiment based on things I saw on tv. So having more voices to listen to was so helpful for me to realize it’s false (that and watching all the 2000s PUA leaders get married and ditch “the game” lol)

[@v_bunny]

when i was about 13, i was trying to appear and feel more masculine. i watched that big alpha youtuber dude with the annoying loud voice (i forgot his name lmao) because of his click bait videos. but i swear, i couldn’t pin point a single unique idea he was trying to communicate. it was the same recycled “get this haircut, wear this cologne, be manly” shit that made no sense. i watched a few one day and immediately gave up, and just decided to do what made me feel like my best self. 7 years later and i’m glad i didn’t fall down that shit hole of content

[@NightmareCourtPictures]

I think you are referring to Alpha M. He’s actually one of the good male role models. There’s a lot of things you can learn from him, but if you are young and dumb I guess it’s hard to tell the difference and separate useful information from the not-so-useful. Being yourself is one of the things to become a man…but more than that is how to take responsibility. Being responsible for others, and not just yourself. It’s not his fault you screwed up, it’s yours…and admitting that is one of the steps one needs to take to really grow up and become a real man. That’s the issue with Fresh and Fit…all they do is blame blame blame…blame everyone except themself and it shows a basic immaturity that kids typically have.

[@v_bunny]

@@NightmareCourtPictures i agree, being really young and not having any other guidance, it's hard to figure out the order of importance some things have over others. while i don't believe there's such a thing as "becoming a real man," i think that being mature to accept your faults and learn from mistakes is important for anyone to do

[@v_bunny]

@@ruaraidh74 well, that's when i'd ask help from people i know and trust, and get their opinions to eventually decide for myself where to buy. it's not all black and white situations

[@artorhen]

You sound like you're a really cool person. Doing your own thing takes a lot more confidence and strength of character than imitating what other people tell you.

[@maxrona137]

Add "The Greek Alphabet" to the list of mundane things that trigger me

[@DillyBar825]

I find the concept of “alpha males” fascinating… I am excited that you have decided to make a video on this phenomenon. Anyone who thinks humans have intrinsic value and that some humans are inherently less than others seriously need a reality check and a therapist.

[@katekursive1370]

A bit like FBI trying to solve the problem of femicide without addressing societal mysoginy.

[@catflon2388]

Well, generally, our society has decided that it is easier to ignore root causes and only addresses their symptoms/ramifications....so there's that😏😏

[@aaronymous9]

As a Trans Man, I struggle with Toxic Masculinity kind of doubled than a lot of cis guys, thank god I’ve never fallen into this mindset but I know one of my brothers has unfortunately… he’s trying to get better but he still uses a lot of hurtful language and words against women. But I’ve found that my experiences with toxic masculinity, ( particularly I used to think that objectifying women, not being emotionally available, being muscular and working out, and getting a girlfriend would make me “more manly” which is funnier to me in hindsight because I’m not straight either lmao ) but I’ve found it a lot easier to empathize with dudes who fall into that kind of trap because I was so close to falling into it myself. I feel that if we can provide media, content, and easily accessible things that work and a bridging point between alpha male content and realizing that they are scamming and lying to you and making you a more hateful person is a good step that we should be taking as a community. Dunking on alpha males though… still fun and works as a coping mechanism for a lot of people but we should have that content alongside content as a resource for those people who may need it.

[@InternetsPedestrian]

I really like how Duncan isnt afraid to comment on things happening in the commentary community like this topic and Dhar Mann. It's not an attack on anyone but deeper discussion on the harm that this type of content breeds.

[@nickjohnson398]

This video vocalized my thoughts on the matter exactly. I’ve seen good people who frankly didn’t deserve to be put down by the peers growing up and they are just so desperate to feel seen or like they belong that they’ll fall into anything. So stuff like just shitting on these alpha males and in-turn their audiences is subjecting them to the same hollowing humiliation they’ve grown used to all their life. The alpha male stuff gives the a false sense of empowerment with this artificial superiority complex that in my opinion is born through a desperate subconscious attempt to establish any semblance of self-worth. It’s sad man cause so many kids fall into this stuff now adays and with a different upbringing they could be normal decent people.

[@hiddenechoes]

Listening to this helps me realise where a lot of the members of the cult I was born into came from mindset wise and why they might have found it an attractive prospect to be in a society subset where they dominate by virtue of being male. I always found insecurities dangerous from watching how they played out in that field, but the insecurities are probably how the people got into there in the first place. Love your video, as always.

[@AlsoNahh]

I have stopped watching these videos about manosphere because of the reasons you just explained. It was entertaining for a while to watch someone who’s content I love debunk everything these alpha douches pump out, but at some point I just started to almost feel nauseous watching them. Being exposed to these toxic ideas and people through someone else’s content was enough for me as is, but I also left feeling hopeless for the people who obviously keep these manosphere creators in business, who actually think they share their thoughts. Thank you for talking about this subject so empathetically and with real ideas to improve the situation, this video is important. Anyone can ridicule people, but actually providing solutions and giving hope is another thing.

[@TinyGhosty]

I am always encouraged to see how supportive and compassionate you are. It is very easy to create a us vs them situation without realizing there are ways to help them realize their actions are harmful and their lives would be better to let go of hatred. Thank you for being such a well spoken individual and sharing your thoughts with us.

[@toastghost2448]

I haven't watched the full video yet, but I just had a thought and wanted to write it down before it escapes me. So I am a 17 year-old guy and even sometimes I find myself thinking misogynistic things from time to time even though i watch people like contrapoints, philosophytube, khadija mbowe, f.d. signifier etc. There are just so many different places where those kinds of thoughts make you feel validated, and although its justified and not usually directed at an audience like me - seeing/hearing things online and irl like 'all men are bad', 'men are stupid' etc, just make you feel terrible, especially when you are a teenager and already feel like shit from everything else in your life. I understand that a lot of feminists who are women are angry, but hatred online spreads much faster than any other information. What a lot of guys I've seen misunderstand and even some women don't talk about it directly, is that the same stereotypes and gender expectations that are harmful to women [that are usually reinforced and placed by men] are equally detrimentral as well. For example, women are often stereotyped as emotional, and this hurts men as we are then seen as emotionless/stoic/out of touch/uncaring, women are also thought of as fragile, weak and incapable. [infantalised I guess? I just think of how crowds react to women recieving the death penalty or female athletes being shunned - like ceramic object "waitnig to be shattered", I actually found out from my friends who are girls that our principal once gave them a talk about how they are like vases on a shelf and when you get fingerprints on the vase{ie if you go around kissing boys or doing other stuff} you move down the shelf and your worth decreases - isn;t that fun? /s] while this can leave men in a place of hvaing their lives viewed as less worthy or disposable. Maybe I'm not looking into feminist circles enough to see this, but there are many people who would benefit from being educated on social constructs and gender indicators in a more generalised sense than being given information from a feminist outlook first and foremost. idk if i got something wrong or if this is insensitive in any way please tell me I would like to improve my understanding.

[@thatwaffleguy4958]

Don't try to be an Alpha Male or a Male Feminist. That cuts you off from either side. Take the best parts of both sides. Don't hate women, but don't worship them all. Work out and focus on yourself, but don't do it specifically to get a girlfriend. Do it for yourself. There's a balance between the two extremes, and that's where everyone should be.

[@caramelese8520]

When I was younger girl I was really into feminism. The issue I started having with it is the way they see women as the victims all the time and society is always against us. I don't believe it's a healthy mindset for both girls and guys and I understand what you mean by a more generalised view. Also don't listen to girls that say all men are bad because that makes no sense. They are just repeating what they hear online. Try to surround yourself with people that have balanced values. For me I stay a way from toxicity and if I can't find people without it, I keep to myself.

[@cats_are_love]

ive rarely seen a amab talking about stuff line this,w/o seeming performative, uncle kuncle is a good dude.

[@Deepseadread6]

Just say a man 😭

[@clockworkalmond1032]

I love your little corner of the internet. It's full of empathy and compassion. Thank you for your views on any topic you choose to comment on :)

[@painexotic3757]

People are ignoring that fact that the entire reason people go for these ideologies are these types of vids. Men constantly being told they're toxic and how our problems do not matter. The hypocrisy of body positivity. Men being told we're "privileged". So what do you expect when one side is telling you you're toxic while the other is telling you you're a king? Line of least resistance.

[@Dos_Caffeine]

I used to think that too in high school, but as an adult with some real world experience, I learned that feminists don't hate masculinity, or men in general (some do, but they're the outlier). When they say "toxic masculinity" they don't mean masculinity is inherntly toxic, but the culture, and sociatal pressures placed on men to succeed is toxic, the notion that having feelings or crying makes you weak, is toxic. It's a combination of these factors that contribute to male suicide rates. Feminists advocate both to be on equal footing with men, and to improve the lives of men.

[@painexotic3757]

@@Dos_Caffeine oh don't pull that card on me. I'm a 24 year old man and have "life experience" lol. I understand men's frustration because I've experienced being a man in modern society. It's not as easy as people make it seem. I've dealt with depression and felt invisible from society for many years. I understand the feeling of isolation and feeling like no one cares about you as a man. I've been homeless and dirt poor. I've felt invisible to women when I put my effort in to improve myself. Yet society will tell us we're privileged and have no right to complain. This was my experience growing up to being the man I am today and it's obviously the experiences of alot of men which is why alot of them reasonate with these ideologies.

[@taylor-flynnspencer2438]

As a trans man who began my transition six months ago and who has always been aware and happy in my role as a feminist, I find it eerie how the toxic masculinity can seep in. Since I started testosterone those pressures internally that you feel as you start to grow into yourself more as an adult was honestly a shocking part of my transition. My girlfriend reminds me it's okay to be hurt, it's okay to show your vulnerability where I never really had problems with doing that before. I can definitely see if you were stuck in this echo chamber how it would permeate your everyday life and that's a pretty terrifying thought... As a boy who is slowly growing into my own body, figuring out surgeries, is deeply insecure about my voice and how others view me, I felt very seen by you in this video. It's interesting from a trans perspective how these gender roles still find insidious ways to bog down your mind and it's proof to me that these gender roles were created and imposed for a reason. They're unhealthy, they're toxic in every sense in the word and even being so aware of them I still fall into these pitfalls when I'm in my insecure shame spirals. Thank you for making this video, it's really important to start these conversations

[@hgpt3084]

While I don’t believe that it is the responsibility of disenfranchised or mistreated groups to educate the people who are mistreating them, I do think you are right that we need to start offering compassion to the audiences of these podcasts. In 2018 I met a guy on a subreddit that has since been deleted for hate speech; he posted there about how he was worried that he was becoming an incel, because every time he saw women around his college being happy he was filled with intense rage. I was also very lonely at the time and thought that I was a female incel, but I reached out to him and was able to offer some help. We’ve been online friends since and still talk every day. When I met him he was a self-described fascist and chauvinist. Now he considers himself socially progressive and economically right. He told me that I am why he isn’t a misogynist anymore. He went from falling for far-right grifters to making fun of them and unfollowing. We’re both a little fucked in the head and there have been maybe half a dozen nights where he’s texting me sobbing and suicidal and I got to be there with him as he got through really tough times. He just graduated college and is already employed, after telling me maybe 100 times that he would kill himself on graduation day. He’s dating and outgoing and has channeled his rage into getting really fit. I’m so proud of him. I don’t think it’s women‘s responsibility to fix broken men, but I will say that watching someone become a much better person is incredibly gratifying. Like I tell him all the time, one day I’m gonna dance at his wedding. And I’m gonna bawl my eyes out

[@awkwardukulele6077]

I'm not sure what else to say besides