Gordon Murray's T.50s Aerodynamics Analysis

[@KYLEENGINEERS]

Thanks for your patience guys, squeezing in time to do videos lately has been difficult! Hope you enjoy this one! I've been getting asked a few questions about the aero courses lately, yes I am still working on them, I'm about halfway through the first course. At this rate I hope to have them released by June, but there is a lot of content to put together. Thanks for your understanding and stay safe!

[@swapnilsingh8148]

Hi, Can you please make a video on topic of how slots on F1 extended floors and vanes help in cleaning the flow. Similarly how the vanes and slots in the bargeboards clear up the dirty air and similar slots on sides of nose help up in cleaning the air. I see these topics often mentioned in articles but no explanation for how these components help in cleaning the airflow to feed it in aero-significant areas or can you suggest me to refer some source to get the fundamental fluid phenomenon explaination behind this logic.

[@srinitaaigaura]

The light weight of 852 kg means you can achieve more with less downforce, but that also means the drag generated also can be reduced significantly. So light weight is one reason why this is able to go so fast despite so much aero.

[@captain_context9991]

People REALLY... And I mean REALLY NEED to stop saying a car can drive upside down if it produces its own weight in downforce. Thats NOT how cars work, and thats not how downforce works. This is a ridiculous thing to say.

[@ВасилийПупкин-ф7е]

Can you tell something about F1 teams simulators? What difference between them and iRacing for example?

[@hossamahmed8725]

excited about the course :D

[@MTreddevil12]

Wish you could be there in person and ask Gordon questions as you go through it. That would be very interesting.

[@fuckyougoogle555]

Gordon is a legend. Wish Kyle can do interviews and go back in Britain!

[@Marcelg13]

@@fuckyougoogle555 Is Gordon a Legend? Yes and No. He designed some legendary Cars in his Career but him saying that he designed the mclaren mp4/4 when it was actually Steve Nichols made me lose respect for Gordan.

[@Runoratsu]

In his interview with Harry from Harry‘s Garage, Gordon Murray talks about a couple of the points you speculate about in this video.

[@Jtheman497]

Definitely would like to see you go through the fan system . Also if you watch Harrys Garage's video, Gordan and Harry go over a the aero details a bit. In regards to the 3 NACA ducts on the front, the middle is for cabin air, the left and right feed the brakes.

[@DhruvKumar-us5eq]

It doesn't make sense because of they'd use it for brake cooling, it would take a lot of energy from the air routing it to the brakes

[@Jtheman497]

@@DhruvKumar-us5eq I'm just repeating what I heard from the interview with Gordan. Check out Harry's video.

[@leoa4c]

@@DhruvKumar-us5eq According to Gordon, the side NACA ducts are for brake cooling. The side area above the splitter is covered by oil coolers. Naca ducts are very efficient. There should be no problem there. (But... would I feed the brakes from the side area above the splitter instead? Yes, I would.)

[@Vehicular.Shenanigans]

I AM COMMENTING TO BOOST ENGAGEMENT

[@kilianortmann9979]

Boost for the Boost gods and comments for the algorithm.

[@Nemoticon]

WITNESS ME!! xD

[@Tabu11211]

This is me engaging.

[@tturi2]

+1 Psi

[@rojitharanathunga]

I'd love to see a video on Aerodynamics analysis of all the fan cars like the T50, Brabham BT46B and even the Chaparral 2J.

[@lepmuhangpa]

And the Mclaren F1 also had a fan.

[@WynnofThule]

Now this would be the good shit

[@richardtickler8555]

the chaparral guy seems to be still alive. could be a great interview

[@jaysuneakle]

Me too! I'd love to learn about the fan.

[@gustavoflorio5383]

Gordon did mentioned that on the front of the car: 1. central hole directs air to the rear diffuser; 2. Brake ducts are those side NACA ducts. On the roadcar, the lateral ducts on front feeds the coolers. The hot air exits above the front diffuser.... It could be the case here too but it would be too much of cooling surface for a 700hp trackcar.

[@jacklougheed4561]

Once again watching at midnight because I unfortunately am not from straya. Love the vids and the bits were you start to talk about the actual science behind car. Its one thing to look and assume, its another to listen and learn. Thanks for doing this.

[@mosca3289]

The wishbones on the road car are H section aluminum so they’d definitely want to put aero shroud on them.

[@minascholevas]

How do you know that they are H shaped?

[@mosca3289]

@@minascholevas kzbin.info/www/bejne/iHS0oJ2ZrJeLms0

[@lepmuhangpa]

Aero shroud? Interesting.

[@Smidgemax]

YES. I was hoping you'd do this.

[@skrlaviolette]

Same. same (:

[@MrSos2000]

Can you please make analysis and maybe comparison videos on race cars (Gt3, wrc, lmp, hypercar etc).

[@NatedoGP]

Good idea

[@ImInLoveWithBulla]

The McLaren F1 was a legend because of Gordon. Now they just make an endless succession of nice cars that you can’t tell apart. This is the new legend for the next 30 years.

[@captain_context9991]

Its like rock bands. The old iconic rock bands were so iconic because there were very few of them and the whole idea of FAME was new and unexplored. Nobody faints at the sight of a rich and famous rockstar anymore. Nothing achieves the same kind of hero status as things once did. Also because there is no mystery or legend to anything anymore. Everything is explained to death in videos and documentaries and discussed, compared, and debated down to the last minute detail. Leaving little room for legends to grow. But, hey. The companies that make these things dont care. Because its not them that gets to cash in on a car going up in value 2-5-10 years after they built, and sold it.

[@b4ds33d]

The YOU can’t tell apart.

[@avsti]

Excited for the fan system analysis!

[@DWillis7]

It would be good to see an updated analysis on the Valkyrie as it’s had quite a few changes and there’s quite a bit more footage of some of the aero features. I saw a video the other day showing it’s active front wing acting like a DRS system on the straights

[@mattlubberink9775]

I always wonder when I hear “it can drive upside down” claims whether the downforce is simply equal the weight of the vehicle. In my mind it should include the additional downforce which would be required for the generation of tractive driving force to overcome drag effects.

[@samueldowney2806]

Great video on one of the most interesting new cars coming out. Of course we want to see your thoughts on the fan system! That is what we all want to know about! Thanks for keeping the great and insightful videos coming!

[@santiagomontoya4847]

great vid, I'll be waiting for the fan analysis one.

[@HardwareG33k]

Congrats on 100k! Mega deserved.

[@leoa4c]

Flow in the mid section of the rear diffuser should be ok since it has the exhaust to extract it. I would've angled the exhaust pipes on both axis to help with extraction, though. Other than that? What can I say?! This is the best automotive aerodynamics' channel on KZbin. It has been so for many years. Thank you for another great video!

[@anoobhey5798]

Great video! I love how in depth you go in these things. Gordon Murray is truly a legend. Although I am a bit of a purist when it comes to function over form, so some of the stylistic choices irk me. Glad to hear the update on the aero course. Looking forward to it. Also definitely would like a video on the fan system of this car!

[@festol1]

00:56 We all agree with you :) Great videos you make sir, keep 'em coming! And thanks for the metrics, we all like it.

[@isaactaylor-wilson8832]

For the front cooling you were debating.. In Harry's garage video with Gordon.. The centre opening about the splitter is for the T-tray under the car as an aerofoil.. The two sides are for the engine cooling radiators.. Then the naka ducts on the bonnet.. The centre is for the air con.. The two sides for the brakes.

[@isaactaylor-wilson8832]

Also the ones on the rear deck lid if for the rear brakes.

[@Mark_Wolton]

Hey Kyle, another great vid. The black areas under the headlights are vents also. Gordon discussed how these cooled elements of the lights in an earlier video. May I suggest a stylus instead of a mouse for drawing? It may enable more control of the sketches. I'm really keen for your opinion on the base car. You were trying to be so polite in your earlier comments but definitely holding back to no offend.

[@Martindoyon]

Yes I would love to have a video on the fan system

[@TestarossaF110]

Thanks for the video, I'd want more T.50 content, so I vote 'for' that in-depth fan analysis! :D

[@srinitaaigaura]

Recently I watched a video called the Insane Engineering of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner -- and it turns out it uses a very similar system called Hybrid Laminar Flow Control -- sucking out the turbulent boundary layer air off the top of the wing through small openings with a huge pump. The details are secret but this delays the onset of turbulent air and improves both the smoothness of the flying and provides a very significant increase in aerodynamic efficiency. The T50 fan is proper aerospace grade stuff.

[@kwarrtzorau7203]

I've been waiting for this video! Can't wait to hear your insights on the fan system too

[@AutomotiveCNC]

16:53 - Actually, the outer shell is used the same way as the side wind deflectors on trucks, thus reducing the noise and turbulence behind the mirror: 1. It stabilizes the direction of the air flow. 2. Reduces the pressure on the front area by dividing the air stream along separate surfaces. 3. Reduces noise associated with the turbulence.

[@AlessioLabbe]

17:20 - I'm way less experienced or talented than Gordon Murray engineering team, but a question arises: why didn't they place the mirrors in a lower position? I mean, if you don't want a big wake investing the rear wing, the most obvious solution seems placing the mirror in another area, rather than designing a separate housing (or avoiding physical mirrors, like Tesla for example). Thanks in advance for your answer @KYLE.ENGINEERS 🙏🏻

[@admkbldwn]

I've got a video (or series) request -- aerodynamic analysis of the new WEC Hypercar class entrants. The class is obviously created to encourage more styling freedoms, as aerodynamic performance is actually limited by spec (that could be an interesting explanation as well) so it would be rather nice to see how the teams balanced their styling and aerodynamic design. It's not too often a whole new class spec comes along in a major racing series.

[@Cloxxki]

The cars being so crazy heavy kind of takes away my interest from its aero. They look like prototypes but weigh the same as GT3. What is the actual point? This T50S is 400 kg lighter and has similar power. Maybe less downforce than Hypercars. Around the LeMans track, could T50S match Hypercar lap times when fitted with the same wheels?

[@srinitaaigaura]

The light weight of 852 kg means you can achieve more with less downforce, but that also means the drag generated also can be reduced significantly. So light weight is one reason why this is able to go so fast despite so much aero.

[@Cloxxki]

I'm very curious what this car will be capable of in real life track "racing", compared to less powerful and 400 kg heavier GT3 cars. How might downforce compare? Being so light and with decent downforce, might T50S appoach LMP2 lap times? DTM cars when they were effectively silhouette prototypes had like 500 hp at 1000 kg. Those cars were faster than F3 on fast track, slightly slower on slow tracks. Might T50S being more powerful and lighter still now compare similarly to modern F3 cars that are 565 kg with 240 hp?

[@srinitaaigaura]

​@@CloxxkiThat video of Dario sending it full throttle up Goodwood, it's mad quick!

[@johndeerman2105]

Yes, please analyze the fan portion of this design. I really enjoyed your expertise on Gordon's design. I learned some new things as well. Brilliant work. Thank you. ✌🙋🏻‍♂️

[@devandrasimanjuntak1646]

Hello Kyle! This is a very good video. However there are some things that you may have missed during you research: 8:00 regarding the 3 NACA ducts, the middle one is for the driver cooling and the two side ducts are for the brake cooling. Not sure what the bottom ducts are for, Mr. Murray hasn’t provided any detail regarding that from the videos I’ve seen. 9:20 It has been confirmed by Mr.Murray himself that each of the side vents provide cooling for the engine and gearbox. I forgot which side cools which exactly, but he did state that one side provides cooling for the engine and another side provides cooling for the transmission. You can confirm this information by watching Harry’s Garage video on the T.50S. So far that video seems to be very detailed in providing technical information from Mr. Murray himself. Another thing to note is regarding the downforce claim being at 360km/h according to your calculations, this lines up with the fact that the standard T.50 has a theoretical top speed of 227 mph, which is 365 km/h. I’m not sure whether the T.50S can reach that top speed (as I would imagine it would have more drag than the standard T.50 due to the additional aero devices) it does give some clarity as to why they may have decided to calculate downforce from that speed range that you have specified

[@Your_Paramour]

From memory in Harry's video they mention the design target was 1000 kg of downforce, and having a design target of 1000 kg at 360 Km/h doesn't seem like a very high target for pure track car.

[@devandrasimanjuntak1646]

@@Your_Paramour keep in mind though, this car also has a weight target of 890 kg. 1000 kg of downforce at 365 km/h equates to 568 kg of downforce at 281 km/h. That’s more than what the Porsche 991.2 GT3 RS makes at 300 km/h, a car that laps the Nurburgring at 6:56 and weighs about 1400 kg. It’s more than enough honestly.

[@Your_Paramour]

@@devandrasimanjuntak1646 1000kg of downforce would allow it to roughly do 2g lateral at 200 km/h on slick tyres which I guess is higher than a GT3 car so it is probably enough.

[@thepowerhouseofthecell2322]

Finally a good explanation of raised front section and side venting front diffusers , such a poorly understood area in the main stream! Also I've never understood the sharp T shaped splitter until this video , thanks

[@axelode45]

I LOVE the styling of this car!

[@palmermonsen9098]

Yes! Been waiting for this!

[@1993ka24det]

I love what your doing here, Supercar/Hypercar Aero Breakdown.

[@jareknowak8712]

Yes Kyle, a video about the fan system will be appreciated :)

[@bellluna9017]

I think it's interesting how your mind works. Kyle sees anything: "How aerodynamic is that? "

[@justina9914]

guy goes bald Kyle: What is his new drag coefficient?

[@bellluna9017]

@@justina9914 Christian Van Koenigsegg figure that out a long time ago.

[@superdrummer3578]

Whenever I see Kyle, I click! Awesome video as always, thank you for giving us these insights! I very much look forward into the video on the fan aerodynamics

[@telinoz1975]

100% want to see a vid on the Fan. It is what makes both versions of this car unique.

[@telinoz1975]

Still waiting. ;-)

[@KevinMay71]

21:15 you could re-do the video, taking the fan into account. They say the fan prevents separation with the high diffuser angle

[@jonataneklund7748]

Hey @kyle.engineers, did you miss the the flow trough tunnels int the doors? Possible that they lead air from the front intake or outer two naca-ducts to the rear for cooling? I believe Drivetribe showed them in their launch video.

[@SargentSkroonk]

Thank you for all the informative videos on aero. I've learned so much from your channel. I'd like to hear your opinion on cooling. In your opinion, what is more efficient on cooling, blow or suck? What is more efficient for heat-transfer, or is it the same?

[@allthingsfast2375]

Much excite! ok going to watch it now, thanks!

[@blipblip]

Would you do an updated analysis on the Valkyrie soon? Love to hear your take on the pre-production version.

[@BobbyGeneric145]

Personal preference aside, I think the t50 is the superior car when all things considered.

[@duncg8123]

How cool would it be if the guy who developed the aero on this car was now sat at home watching you review it!? ...It would be even cooler if he had watched loads of your videos on time attack cars for inspiration while he did... It would be even coolerer if he wrote to say thanks for your cool work on this channel... Thanks Kyle 😉👍🏼

[@Marine475]

Center NACA is for driver, side ones are for front brakes- it's in Harrys Metcalf's intervew with Gordon Murray.

[@tmmlam]

sure! please talk about the fan. If have time, please talk about the purpose of the "Slot" is the OE style hatchback rear spoiler vs "No Slot". Thank You!

[@ettorefassina356]

I was looking forward to this video kyle!

[@nikp6657]

Great video. First time I stumble upon your channel. I m subscribing :)

[@izzoArtistry]

Would love to hear your aero analysis on Amuse GT1 Honda S2000!

[@dylanalesio1838]

Kyle!!! Great Work keep it coming. And yes to the Fan system!

[@SimonWorlds]

IMO, the front inlet is large slow air to feed the high speed vent going up the windshield to help air velocity and keep laminar flow (preventing turbulence over the roof). As the air goes over the roof without separation (or much of it) it helps go to the rear wing where it can really be utilized. The engine air intake is high to prevent robbing rear wing air more than for air intake vortices' IMO. The front side pod inlets will go through to the barge boards after the hidden front raked up front diffuser. With the barge boards and side tray, the air under the diffuser then can be sucked in with greater velocity and then suddenly slowed (Creating downforce under the splitter) as the rake upwards ramps up towards the barge boards. The under tray from high speed air will then traverse the remaining air along the floor all the way to the rear diffuser. Just my 2 cents worth.

[@laurenceturner9346]

Great video, I assumed the rear diffuser trumpets where mainly aesthetic and the airflow would have long since separated.. The question all 5-year-olds want to know. After looking at valkyrie who do you would win in a race around the Nurburgring?

[@7heStorm]

Hi Kyle, Keep up the extremely educational and interesting videos ! Thank you!

[@akshayshelar4443]

How can someone dislike such a video

[@EricHorchuck]

Kyle, if the car could drive upside down at 281kph it would have to produce MORE than its mass in downforce. If it only produced its exact mass there would be not enough force to make it press into the.... "upside down road", LOL. Take care, -Eric 🏁 Reference: 1:07

[@GTAGIS]

Hello Kyle, I have a question please : when F1 was F1, with the large diffusers , the exhaust pipe where incorporated into the diffusers to add more effect. With the known phenomena that when pilot lift the foot from the pedal, this reduce drastically the downforce. Some cars were suffering more than others of this effect, like the sadly known FW-16 which had a strong problem of aerodynamic balance alongside mechanical difficulties on suspension partially corrected on the front and which took more time for the rear, both being linked with that special one arm superior rear suspension. My question is why supercars engeeners do not incorporate this in their cars ? Is this because the effect of the diffuser is so small (compared to F1) than exhaust pipe incorporated would not make such difference and therefore they prefer make the exhaust line apparent ? It is true that these last years we have seen many fake and ridiculous diffuser flourishing everywhere, even on SUVs.... And I strongly doubt that even for most of supercars, this produce enough downforce.

[@DIY-V12]

Nice work, would like to see the T50 analysis. Would expect they have twin radiators as per the F1 roadcar venting into the front wheel wells as you alluded to. The gearbox at the rear is quite large so occupies and interferes with the diffuser floor area, how would this affect the centre of pressure? Love your work, really inspiring.

[@Chilicharger665]

Yes, definitely do a video on the fan system.

[@markm0000]

I like the basic Windows paint drawing over the pictures. It reminds me of old KZbin when you didn’t need to do any crazy video editing. However, it would help if you get a pen tablet they’re pretty cheap now or you can try and find a old professional model used.

[@phildem414]

The vents on top aren't to release pressure build up in the wheel arch? Suggestion related : an aero analysis of vintage legends as the BMW 3.0 CSL "batmobile" and/or the Dodge Daytona : what they've done and yould you do today

[@TheFarCobra]

In the Drivetribe video, Murray talks about front diffuser(s)

[@HekateMGO]

Murray on T50: Aero parts bad. Murray on T50s: Aero parts good.

[@MrLundefaret]

Cooling: The two side NACA ducts are breaks, the centre is cockpit.

Sum it up - unlock the suction side of teh front cannard, upper fr wheel vent could be more aggresive and active wings. And for weight, freevalve engine would save further ~25-30kg that would be a nice mod.

[@PhilArnold001]

Would definitely like to hear your thoughts on the fan system

[@Dreadtothink]

I’d love to see a comparison video between this and the Aston Valkyrie

[@laurean5998]

Can you do a video about the aerodynamics of the jade warrior? I am quite confused because in driver 61s video he said something about the jade warrior using ground effect and exhaust gasses to make serious downforce while standing, which doesn't make to much sense to me...

[@Unamatrix01]

Outstanding aero analysis, please analyze the function of the rear suction fan.

[@nickmorley3186]

Please when you do the fan, explore the saw-tooth design and how the achieves the reduction in noise they wanted. Very interested to learn!

[@nickmorley3186]

Hard to tell from the images, but it does appear that the saw-tooth blades have been removed on the T50s - probably because it had some impact on fan performance and they care less about noise on this version of the car.

[@initialdfan8352]

One thing is for sure this thing will be super OP if it’s added to GT7 or FH5 or FM

[@aydankhaliq2967]

Where the hell did all these subs come from? I remember it was 50k a few months ago.

[@palmermonsen9098]

What do you think about doing an aero analysis on the WRX Gymkhana car? It has some really interesting aero and I am curious how effective it is

[@miles11we]

Fan system? Yes sir

[@chris4lyfe23]

Tell us about the Nismo GT-R GT500 (red color)! They have a cascade of elements on the side skirt behind the front tires that would be interesting to hear your perspective on.

[@marcoscattola6700]

Hi Kyle, would it be possible to have a video on the new LMH cars? I would be very interested in an analysis on the glickenhaus 007 LMH, do the fins they have on the rear wing really make sense on this kind of cars? Cheers

[@rabidlenny7221]

I am wondering if at 3:50, there's no material there because the car might have separate front venturi's, sorta like the Toyota Eagle Mk. III did back in 1991. That would be awesome if so

[@garyrichardson7679]

The video I have been waiting for!!!

[@Shadowboost]

The car makes its 1500 kg downforce at top speed which is around 210 mph. The reason why can't just extrapolate the downforce figure from the given "downforce at 175 mph of its weight" is because the car is likely much lower in ride height at top speed on the bump stops. I dunno, the front canard setup looks pretty standard to me. It's a double element with an delta endplate. The car already hit the downforce limit of these tire sizes (without making the car much wider) so reduction of drag is the next easy objective Center section of the diffuser is blown by the exhaust and some of the fan eflux

[@thegforce522]

Love analysis vids like this, great job!

[@JC-ve4zm]

Honestly i'd love to see you take a stock "sports" car and talk about what you could do Aero wise to help it with gas mileage/steering.

[@tturi2]

I learnt so much in this video

[@fantomas76]

Video about the fan? Yes, please! Downforce aside, do you think its thrust can be really something? Thanks.

[@doodletanki6661]

can you discuss why the sf1000 was very draggy, which parts were a problem and what rule prohibits changing those parts

[@lordflufffluff]

Seeing a fan system video will be cool.

[@greigsanderson]

Probably the greatest car ever.

[@albertweedsteinthethuggeni7797]

Holy trinity: Frank Stephenson for design You for in depth aero Engineering Explained for general calculations

[@JWONG-pu8ky]

I cant wait for you to analyze the 2022 f1 cars and its difference from the current generation

[@sholky]

About the V-shaped wing being only for looks - wouldn't you have less turbulence at the edge of the wing and therefore make the job for the flaps easier if the wing is smaller at that part?

[@thomaswarren9065]

How does putting a loss structure (large vortex) infront of the Front Wheel help Tyre squirt? I assume you mean the vortex rolling up on the edge of the Front splitter, underneath. Would this not just go underneath and inboard of the Front wheel and cause even more mess? Great video!

[@RyanAlba]

Was there any mention of active elements under the rear diffuser?

[@edo1990ct]

Great video as always!

[@bingo8408]

yes please, do that fan analysis

[@NuMetal92]

Maybe when you are done with all the F1 car breakdowns you can talk about the T50 fan design

[@Gois83]

Definitely would like to see a video on the fan. I've heard Murray going on about the system but would like to see someone else knowledgeable coment on it!

[@HansBrodiAutomotive]

Brilliant video, thank you! Greetings from Germany 🏁♥️

[@vx220ukct]

The centre naca was cabin cooling, the 2 sides were brake cooling.

[@5riddikk]

Deffffff want the video on the fan.