Ferrari F80 - Aerodynamics Analysis and Initial Thoughts

[@burnwithwater]

Can we get a W1 analysis too, please?🧡🧡

[@jubuttib]

Have they released any pics of the floor? Haven't been able to find any with the usual google keywords for some reason. If not, then not much point in doing an analysis quite yet.

[@KYLEENGINEERS]

Didn't think I'd be making a video on this, but here we are! Hope you all enjoy it!

[@whatev888]

I didn't think you would be making a video on this either lol. Nice surprise!!!!!

[@K3b1bisLtu]

I'm glad it's a car worth making a video about.

[@lac3rbi]

As always, very interesting video 😊

[@franciscosalust5435]

Does a lot of radiator cooling in the front of the car, far from the center of gravity, affect the polar moment of inertia? Or is this a minimal effect? I appreciate your channel. I'm watching from Brazil

[@zlm001]

I thought the cost cap is supposed to take care of unrestricted technological development. Why are we still strangling development through more and more rules when the whole point of most of the rules was to prevent having to spend billions to compete at the front? Though the bib trick was definitely illegal without changing the rules, so I think this one would actually qualify as cheating. What if teams are allowed to develop non-hybrid V8 and V10 engines, but they’re also allowed to stick on as many electric motors and batteries as they want, wherever they want? They could have 0 to 100 electric motors and maybe a certain overall battery capacity limitation. That could encourage the development of even more powerful and lighter electric motors that can either withstand higher heat or dissipate heat better. The cost cap could be adjusted to prevent buying the championship. If they go back to thirteen inch wheels can replace the weight with motors near the wheel or remove the weight entirely. That genuinely seems to be where super cars and regular cars are going, and teams can embrace electric motor power as much as they’d like. They should also remove the minimum overall car weight requirement because making any component lighter while maintaining a budget improves the performance and efficiency of anything. There are many problems with these ideas that need to be handled with appropriate rules and guidance, but I think they’d produce amazing racing and amazing vehicles.

[@lauriedooker1031]

Kyle engineering video on the Ferrari F80 saved me watching Shmee to get the info . Thanks Kyle 🇦🇺👍❤️

[@tylermcardle1190]

can’t stand that guy

[@justsomeguywithoutamustang6436]

Hi guys I'm Shmee and today...

[@dafnik8925]

Oh, come oooon, there is no comparison! Shmee is the rich spoilt dumb kid at school everybody made fun of...

[@GAWTYONEK]

Shmee "THIS CAR IS REALLY LOUD", proceeds to scream like a little girl even louder 😂😂, 150.

[@clicheguevara5282]

Shmee bugs me too but I'm not totally sure why. He always just kinda irritates me after a couple minutes of watching one of his videos. A lot of it is probably that he's just a stereotypical, unoriginal KZbinr - and those people are annoying regardless of their content. He does the whole "KZbinr voice" and his thumbnails make me want to slap him. Tbh, he's surprisingly chill for a guy who almost certainly got bullied for his entire childhood. Imagine being named Shmeee AND having pronounced lisp. Damn. Lol

[@Phoon996]

Would you make one on the McLaren W1?

[@bishopdredd5349]

There are no details of the underside of the W1, so might be difficult to analyse. McLaren said it uses ground effect, so there’s a lot going on aerodynamically at the bottom. Also haven’t seen much detail about the movable aero element at the front,

[@Daniel-iq5oo]

What I can tell from the press release, they are very similar in concept. Movable front wing, T-Tray, ground effekt, and big diffusor and adjustable rear wing. They use the same tires, so the limitations and hence the performance is very similar.

[@chrispybaked]

Yes please

[@starby1243]

I'm old enough to know Ferrari have a more aero version they need to sell this first before the upgrades lol.

[@canihave1dab724]

The xx will end up looking exactly like the lmph car 😂

[@starby1243]

@@canihave1dab724 Haha probably. Pretty sure they have a clear hood ready to proudly show engine in next version 😅

[@kalle5548]

0:40 "No aerodynamicist can perfectly predict flows just by eye," except Kelly Johnson, because "That damned Swede can actually see air" - Hall Hibbard

[@Ryuko21]

adrian newey asw fr

[@omg_stoppit]

Hey man, thanks for everything. Your channel was instrumental in my learning fluid dynamics and beginning to mess around with intakes and aero. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

[@samuelhopely4853]

This car's design has really grown on me since I first saw it, it's busy but they always are. However it was a mistake for Ferrari to introduce the Daytona panel on the Dodici Cillindri first, even if it will remain a consistent design feature into the future.

[@dddd-uk4vn]

i've seen edits without the panel and it looks weird, like it's eyes are too far wide apart. it works imo

[@Frank-pc2rs]

They put that panel on the Dodici Cillindri because they wanted it to look like the old 365 Daytona and it honestly does. I love the 12 cylinder.

[@AgeofJP]

I'm glad this is becoming less of a hot take over time because I really really liked that design feature from the very beginning...as in, genuinely my favorite part of the car. I'm usually pretty self aware about certain specialities (weirdnesses) in my taste but reading the negative feedback on this had me actually perplexed. I was kind of dissapointed like, "I can't be the only one seeing how cool this looks"

[@godfather95mbs33]

So happy to see that kyle made this video

[@LimitPro1]

A lot of F1 cleverness in the design

[@Thuddster]

This was a very insightful and succinct aero overview of the F80, thank you Kyle!

[@pklimbic]

Humble and super competent. Reminds me of the people at Ferrari :) Great video, thanks.

[@simbarashekunedzimwe1372]

Humble and ferari?

[@pklimbic]

@@simbarashekunedzimwe1372 yes, every single person I’ve met there who works in development was absolutely fantastic. Curious, humble, and very, very competent. And brought, they are very good at working across specialties and working together instead of against each other.

[@clicheguevara5282]

This is LITERALLY the first time I've ever seen the words humble and Ferrari in the same sentence. Lol

[@divyansh2890]

ferrari snd humble?😂😂😂

[@martin_in_the_alps]

Still asking for an analysis on the Mythbusters Golf ball pimples car. That would be great

[@MomonosukeKozuki]

That was already answered by Adam himself in an interview with itsdanielmac. The data on their experiment was sound but a full study from one of the big 3 automakers said it doesn't work at all. He even joked about how wasting one of the big 3's time and money was a highlight in his life.

[@martin_in_the_alps]

@@MomonosukeKozuki Adam said, that the results were off, not that it didn't work.

[@lauriedooker1031]

Those ‘strakes ‘ behind the frond tyres look as if they are vortex generation for along the rockers to keep high pressure creep out from under . Looks like there is more than what we see going on .

[@dr1311]

Very nice video analysis of aerodynamics. Look forward to see more. Great work.

[@DavidBrown-nj4ly]

Great to see such a knowledgeable analysis of the car, Kyle! Very enjoyable. thankyou.

[@iulian2548]

Great analysis, thank you! Love the rear curved carbon beam that joins the rear suspension mount.

[@ryanedwards3906]

Christmas has come early - A video from Kyle 💪

[@minascholevas]

Do one on the W1. I think that its aerodynamic package warrants much more discussion

[@F1ll1nTh3Blanks]

Ferrari showed more images than McLaren did, for him to do a video on the W1, I think we'd need more images.

[@CraigLandsberg-lk1ep]

Awesome video again 😅 from Queensland Australia 🌏

[@johnbarker5009]

A new video from Kyle.engineers...YAY!

[@chivalrous162]

hear from the expert make my day.

[@toivonencresto]

hi, and thank you. I'd have a request for you. In 1986 World Rally Championship had its greatest but saddest year of its history, with the pinnacle of the Group B Cars. The championship was decided by some season changing tragic accidents, and... by a controversy about Peugeot's 205 T16, which were disqualified at Sanremo rally at first, but then the Fia deleted Sanremo results and Lancia lost the title that Markku Alen won with the win at the final Olympus Rally. The reason of the controversy was about some side skirts that Peugeot said being some protective appendages, but in reality 205 T16 cars had some very trouble at high speed trim during jumps. Being that kind of element banned, the cars were disqualified initially, but then Fia deleted the Sanremo result accepting Peugeot's appeal saying that they did some test and the car with or without these skirts didn't show any relevant change in aerodynamic load. Many said in the years that this was not correct because the test was not conducted with an active ground (mobile ground) tunnel but in a static way. You can see the car (they're talking about it starting at 15-56 kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqKxh2SJrdd_aZY Can you do a video about it? Thank You!

[@Manuel_Gestal]

Since this car is based on the lemans Ferrari, or at least that's what Ferrari said, I have a question: Why do Lemans cars have a gap over the wheels??

[@fastyf1]

From what I understand, but I could be wrong, those cut outs are mandatory for all prototypes and hypercars. They are there to get rid of the high pressure air within the wheel wells. This should in theory make the cars less likely to get airborne.

[@Manuel_Gestal]

​@@fastyf1but does it have any advantage, why does the AMG project one for example have holes over the tyre or maybe SSC tuatara??????

[@xxMrVashxx]

It’s also a way to cool the brakes for cars that are so track focused ✌️

[@chabweezy9905]

@@Manuel_Gestal decreases lift

[@cingkole7893]

The XX is gonna be crazy

[@LeopoldFowler]

The most important thing is transforming our minds, for a new way of thinking, a new outlook: we should strive to develop a new inner world.

[@rolandotillit2867]

@13:15 that's how turbo impellers are designed, they are swept back at the tip, just a little something to improve the working window of the impeller.

[@osvaldobubbolo9410]

Hi Kyle, i'm rewarching the 6h of fuji an i noticed at 1.46.18 an engineer very similar to you. Are you working on the Cadillac Wec team?

[@basedneeble7350]

Our resident aero legend is back in the building.

[@fillman86]

hmmm I wonder if those strakes behind the front wheels are less about trying to wash the wake in or out, but instead to create a line of energized air to act as a pseudo skirt? (you may be able to tell that I'm not an aerodynamicist lol) I'd be interested to see you run a CFD to see what this new trend that you're seeing here and on porsche (I think you said they did it too?) is doing

[@VanessaThomas-w1o]

If I could reach up and hold a star for every time you've made me smile, the entire evening sky would be in the palm of my hand.

[@justincharles6585]

Wonderful words

[@paualdinicola]

Great video! You earned a subscriber!

[@joshuathomas512]

Can you please talk about the wing on the W1? How helpful is that pivot?

[@WrestleWireHub]

A V6 with a equivalent pricetag of a V16! How do they even justifying this price. It's better to get a Corvette ZR1 with a fraction of it's amount.

[@damianocarosi346]

A car performance it’s not all about engine. Even in that case this V6 is one of the most perfomant in the world

[@amarmangaonkar7682]

Actually we did a fun project to increase fuel efficiency of sedan just by aero. We had similar design came up in cfd analysis

[@zix_zix_zix]

Amazing analysis!

[@jubuttib]

Question! The front 3-element "wing" that you talk about at around 8 minutes in, since it's generating so much DF and it's venting straight up right before the window, is there a chance that in wet conditions it'd potentially throw out water through it, and maybe even cause visibility issues? Theoretically of course, a road car of this caliber probably wouldn't be pushing super high speeds on a track in wet conditions very often.

[@elwingy]

this is a refreshing video coming after all the ignorant people out there and their "why did they put the v12 in their suv" and "laferrari price skyrocketed" and "its like lego"

[@aluisiofsjr]

They are all right.

[@elwingy]

@@aluisiofsjr sure. for ignorant folks.

[@brianmoncion6723]

The aero work on the undertray is crazy for a road car. I guess Ferrari is going to homolagate this..otherwise why? It's not a hyper car..or is it? Anyw😊ys great insight. Thx.

[@paualdinicola]

You missed the front cooling exit right in front of the door imo, maybe more visible with door closed.

[@jubuttib]

You know, back in the day I might have considered that those ducts running through the doors would be too long and tiny to really do anything. But I've read Willem Toet's article on air ducts, and how they blew out the door on their Aston Martin Nimrod at Le Mans after making the cockpit air intake smaller, but having a decent expansion area after it, increasing the pressure... So yeah, not gonna make any guesses as to how it actually works, because clearly I know nothing. =)

[@rolandotillit2867]

@9:42 Those strakes, and the diffuser look to be out-washing the tire wake. A lot of work has gone to manage tire wake from the looks of it. Those strakes are starting to become ubiquitous on cars nowadays, they work, rather well actually.

[@AmericanBusinessman422]

Let's go back to the days where the pinnacle was the V12 engine and not some boring old video about aero dynamics

[@pklimbic]

I think they can adjust camber on the go :) , and ride height, for each wheel independently.

[@notsanger]

possibly the best part of this thing being unveiled. love how detailed and clever aero designs are getting, shame it seems to go hand-in-hand with the cars looking worse.

[@hendriegrimberg5016]

I think is a great car, Le Mans car for on the road. It,s a special Beast

[@Real_Shawn]

It's not the same engine

[@apt962]

Do you think the “not NACA” duct could be the rear brake cooling? The duct at the brake work was heading up.

[@dr1311]

Is it possible to have a side by side aero analysis of the Enzo, la Ferrari and this F80 please? My intention is to understand the aero developments that spawned in these years and see any gains or otherwise. Thanks.

[@nicolashuffman4312]

I'd love to see some wool turfs on that car!

[@BellaYale-m7s]

Poison ivy grew through the fence they said was impenetrable.

[@draso19]

I hope, this channel will be spared from LEGO technik comments that are spreading on F80 videos currently...every little boy wants to have famous comment and repeeating from theirs same stupid comrads. Good work, Kyle!;-)

[@GenghisDaniel]

Well some might spare you the Lego comment but it will not change the fact that this F80 is ugly as fuck and that there are a lot of solutions to make an as effective aero car without making it as ugly…

[@HolyNorthAmericanEmpire]

​@@GenghisDaniel Gordon Murray and Adrian Newey showed it's possible after all

[@GenghisDaniel]

@@HolyNorthAmericanEmpire Yes indeed, and even the Mclaren W1 which is clearly not perfect in terms of design is much more appealing than this F80 which is a collection of retro reference (Daytona, F40, Enzo, etc.) which are simply botched together without any coherence...

[@v0ldy54]

Well, maybe if Ferrari didn't make a squished Camaro we wouldn't have such discussion. This is still a road car, if all you care are lap times then no matter what you do it will never be the right tool, aesthetic should be crucial for an hypercar. And speaking of it, I simply don't believe the shape of the F80 is what it is just because they chased aero, actual race car are way more aero focused and they look much better than this mess.

[@jansedlak8505]

​@@GenghisDanielF80 is much sexier than W1. McLaren has too much black, front wheels are too small(too big wheels are also not great) and front has no attractive features. The rear looks pretty good. Front is controversial on the F80, but it atleast has soul, when W1 has no emotions. Just like on the new Nevera and Jesko.

[@Fangio-63]

I feel Porsche's one is coming soon, so do W1 and new Porsche, too. It would be great

[@tomaslevett9361]

How did you get into formula 1 I really want to and am currently in my first year of my mechanical b.Eng

[@chazdby]

Could you make a video about mclaren w1?Your videos are great

[@aiviou]

Thank you!

[@jean-claudechucklee7911]

That Ferrari looks like a Lamborghini ❤

[@jasonzhang8577]

did you not figure out the coke bottle feature?

[@JoyoAbadi-x9v]

wow, quick!!!

[@288gto7]

Why does this have twin turbos if they are electrically assisted already to eliminate lag? Isnt whole point of parallel twin turbo to reduce lag by lowering the diameter of the turbo hemce lowering its inertia, why not single turbo with electric assist?

[@K3b1bisLtu]

Packaging, i assume.

[@elianioriofarrell]

Twin turbos are also used sometimes for a desired weight distribution in a key area or as another comment said, for packaging

[@Dumbo3.1428]

My guess is marketing. They still are Italian...😂 if only v6 than bi turbo is a Ferrari Giani

[@Dumbo3.1428]

@@elianioriofarrell valid point. But I think the overall reduced weight and doe to high location over the engine lowered center of gravity would be preferable in this case. Furthermore the relative freedom of the placement of a battery pack cold achieved the same and more.

[@brianmoncion6723]

Twin turbo also makes more efficient use of the 75percent of fuel burn off that does nothing in a combustion engine.

[@Capitan_77]

W1 next?

[@zlm001]

Thanks.

[@Chalky.]

The overall look is more like a GT car than a traditional hypercar.

[@luishcano__]

4:21 actually you can see at the front part of the door how the “black part” that its closer to the window its going down along the door to end up in that hole. I really like this car, I think they have done this car more into a performance phylosophy than into a beauty one, like with the LaFerrari, and thats why the choose the super v6 instead of the v12

[@justincharles6585]

People just don't understand

[@dmaharry7976]

McLaren w1 video Kyle ?

[@MatthewBenstead-x7b]

V6 motor? It hardly compares to a vaulkrye or a GMA T50, or gimera. Looks like Ferrari are focusing on their race cars instead this year, which isn’t a bad thing…

[@DWillis7]

W1 would be good to see next!

[@slol144]

The front of the F80 looks like Mansory got a holt of a Chevy Camaro

[@AlbertaThorndike]

If A is success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut.

[@M3_86]

Awesome

[@robertsaca3512]

When you say you were an aerodynamisist for Mercedes, you imply Mercedes F1. Was is Mercedes F1, or the production cars and could you elaborate.

[@jeffallen3382]

Wish you could render these videos in something better than 1080p

[@GreatistheWorld]

McLaren, you cowards, release floor pics so Kyle can do a video on it

[@tristanwhite3472]

It has a V6 Engine

[@rolandotillit2867]

@1:44 what I really like from an aero POV the radiators are blocking airflow to the wheels, which should help to minimize the tire wake.

[@dimitris_aapostolidis]

Why did the put lots of radiators? To improve the efficiency by keeping cooler each part? The wheels are pretty similar with Porsche's Taycan . Also with those brake ducts creates outwashing ?

[@chrisrodenbeck6327]

...and pushing it through the atmosphere is a small V6. I want to know how they are getting 300hp/l out of it on pump gas. This just does not sound possible.

[@brandoncavazos7965]

bottom of the car looks like a hotwheel

[@therealMrMisantroop]

So ferrari put a v12 in an SUV but only a v6 in their flagship hypercar? That’s a big L

[@Nun3zDanny3]

Looks like they sacrificed a bit to keep it looking like an f40

[@athan_1122]

F80VJ

[@earljewel7311]

F80 looks beutiful. Bt interia and powertrain leaves much to be desired.

[@leoa4c]

I never understood why more engines and transmissions are not angled around the Y-axis, whenever the regulations, or lack thereof, suit it. Yes, the CG will be raised but that will allow for larger diffuser expansion right in the center section with all of the benefits that come with it. Even racing categories which do allow for such implementation see very little to nothing of the kind. Maybe I am underestimating the side-effects of the raised CG, but as high-noses have shown in F1, the aero benefit does outweigh any CG concerns.

[@ALMX5DP]

Do you mean simply moving the engine higher up in the car, or somehow orienting the various components to be arranged vertically? I think the new Lamborghini Revuelto’s transmission and electric motor are kinda stacked vertically to be more compact lengthwise.

[@leoa4c]

@@ALMX5DP I mean tilting the engine and gearbox in relation to the ground, where the back of the engine stands higher than the front the engine. On side view, angling the engine and transmission by about 10-15 degrees would allow the floor beneath it to be angled by that exact same amount. The differential still needs to be connected to the driveshafts, but this layout will allow for more diffuser expansion in its center section, as opposed to no expansion (assuming zero rake), whenever the engine is mounted flat or perpendicular to the ground.

[@ALMX5DP]

@@leoa4c ah gotcha. Yeah since no mechanical driveshaft is going to the front, a little for-after tilt may not be so difficult. Still have to consider where the rear half shafts connect to the transmission so maybe that is where they might run into potential issues. But yeah interesting idea to allow for more underfloor aerodynamic work.

[@leoa4c]

​@@ALMX5DP The best way to deal with the differential would be to implement it above the drive shafts, in the center, with a gear coming down on each side to meet its respective geared shaft. Essentially, each shaft is a metal tube with a universal joint connected to a small diameter gear. That small diameter gear connects to the diff's "side gear", while a housing keeps it all together and, most importantly, no lower than the U-joint itself. Such layout would drastically increase diffuser volume. In most mid- engine configurations, I think that an increase of 50% could be achieved.

[@cachinerof1]

are we gonna get a video on the McLaren W1?

[@Alan_Hans__]

I was watching a video on probably 1 of the most boring types of racing recently. It involves race cars that turn left all the time. The only thing of interest in the video is the way in which the engineers fiddle around in the grey areas of the rules to make the cars faster. Simple things like literally driving bumper to bumper and putting a hand up to or out the window are sometimes enough to get more competitive. While watching it I was wondering how you would rate the hacks that they have come up with.

[@IDv8I]

It looks like a boxy Koenigsegg, No to the 6 no matter the reason, I would get a BMW or old Nissan if I wanted a cool 6 cylinder.

[@martinsnow6641]

Analysis aside. This car is not pretty. It has that same odd nose as the 365GTB but immensly bulked up middle and back body. What were they thinking when they designed this car? Back to the drawing board. Have a look at the FXX, and modernize it but better than the K model.

[@joaoalegrio6433]

But the square headlight sucks

[@the_rush_to_nothing]

Such a massive car in size.

[@zlm001]

I don’t know why they thought they needed two gigantic straight vertical lines at the leading and trailing edge of the side panels around the wheel. Same for the black strip. How does boring, bland, straight shapes equate to making it a futuristic, sci-fi design? It’s like they had to put effort into purposefully making a home run or easy layup body design just a bit ugly. It’s so close to being magnificent.

[@bonifacelukosi9580]

easy answer is F40 inspiration.

[@supermanblackedition]

@@bonifacelukosi9580 Thank you. I feel like everyone forgot the F40. That and the F40 had a twin turbocharged V8. It's so clear that this is a modern interpretation even down to the rectangle headlights.

[@bonifacelukosi9580]

@@supermanblackedition I completely agree, people are subjective before objective these days.

[@saeed5853]

There is a duct extending from the frontal area to the sides below the door! You didn’t talk about

[@mikeiso8963]

Great analysis. But awfully ugly or am I crazy?

[@dafnik8925]

Still, the Valkyrie(what a strange name!) is my favorite from all the hypercars. It's more beautiful, more performance & V12!!!

[@delusionalaar4031]

You saved me from going through car KZbinrs to learn about it. Thank you so much.

[@nickwells20]

Do electric turbos still use intercoolers? That front shot with the doors up looks like the front of the garage 56 Camaro and the charger hellcat to me lol. Enzo would be so pissed.

[@apt962]

Yes, you still need to cool the air even if you have easier control to keep the compressor in a better part of the compression map, the only real replacement for inter cooling is ethanol or water injection up stream and both are more for short term running (drag racing) not really used in race or road cars as they introduce a consumable and can’t remove a lot of heat for extended periods of time (without topping up fluids).

[@apt962]

100% agree with the rest… add more mass in a less energy dense power source just to hit a 0-100 number while making a whale of a car in the corners/real world driving… he would fire anyone that suggested doing that.

[@Tigerhearty]

my only gripe with this model is how normal and car like the front face with the lights and the huge plastic air area looks, it really contrast way too much with the rest of the car's design it's schockingly ugly

[@hawkeyes4768]

this car is a joke Ferrari needs to blacklist the entire design team out of Italy its like putting pineapples on pizza

[@nickwells20]

I don't think you are qualified enough to teach me lol.

[@Shifty_Malone]

It would look better with some of those black parts colour matched.

[@zlm001]

I thought the cost cap is supposed to take care of unrestricted technological development. Why are we still strangling development through more and more rules when the whole point of most of the rules was to prevent having to spend billions to compete at the front? Though the bib trick was definitely illegal without changing the rules, so I think this one would actually qualify as cheating. What if teams are allowed to develop non-hybrid V8 and V10 engines, but they’re also allowed to stick on as many electric motors and batteries as they want, wherever they want? They could have 0 to 100 electric motors and maybe a certain overall battery capacity limitation. That could encourage the development of even more powerful and lighter electric motors that can either withstand higher heat or dissipate heat better. The cost cap could be adjusted to prevent buying the championship. If they go back to thirteen inch wheels can replace the weight with motors near the wheel or remove the weight entirely. That genuinely seems to be where super cars and regular cars are going, and teams can embrace electric motor power as much as they’d like. They should also remove the minimum overall car weight requirement because making any component lighter while maintaining a budget improves the performance and efficiency of anything. There are many problems with these ideas that need to be handled with appropriate rules and guidance, but I think they’d produce amazing racing and amazing vehicles.

[@redtail1.]

Its like a mix of enzo, f9, the long body of the laferrari and the f40. Nothing about this design looks good to me. Ferrari is falling off