How "mineral" sunscreens are dodging laws

[@Moskinlab]

"Wholesome ingredients" it felt like they've grown their zinc oxide trees in Switzerland and let them play basketball in the afternoon and listen to violin before sunset 😹😹👌 Amazing video Michelle 👏

[@beyond50skin]

😂😂😂

[@RebeccaMorrisCrayCatLady]

Le Mer 2.0 don’t forget the violin music 🤣

[@rubysresource]

This cracked me up 🤣

[@nadab4750]

Hi Mo 🤣 I had to comment too. I agree an amazing video by Michelle. She sounds mad because she is mad! 👱‍♀️❤

[@mashaa.7509]

Ever since only buying sunscreens made of free-range & grass fed zinc oxide, I noticed significant improvements in my skin. Cured my acne and eczema.

[@mrdavidchang]

Clean beauty is dangerous and creates bad consumer beliefs and habits. So disappointing when you constantly see brands and "experts" perpetuating clean is somehow better and safer.

[@angelinebiswas7611]

Agree! It’s kind of disgusting how they’re taking advantage of sooo many believing consumers

[@AVC.1111]

“Clean beauty” is just a reaction to people blinding trusting the other side of the coin with their “experts,” scientists, and lobbyists in “dirty” beauty. Clean beauty also is what pushed for better animal welfare and no animal testing. Also, remember hydroquinone? Used to be over the counter in the US til a year ago. Several well-known dermatologists recommended products with it only a year ago, now, changed their tune. Whether this was from “changing science,” not doing the proper research in the first place, or just lobbying who knows (as it was prescription only in other countries before this). Is science somehow different in Japan and Europe where far fewer chemicals are approved for skincare? Is US science better than theirs? Do the chemicals behave differently here than on either side of us? Or is something else going on? Dr. Anthony Jay of the Mayo Clinic (so no chump) studies DNA and hormones, states that oxybenzone and parabens act as estrogen in the body and that oxybenzone levels were above the government's safety levels (which were already to high) even after only one application a week later (natural lavender oil also raises estrogen levels). Point is don’t blindly trust anything on the shelves and assume that it’s safe (scientists claimed for years that smoking was fine, knowing that it wasn’t; having been bought off by tobacco companies. Only reason we all know now, a few rogue individuals found out and forced the government to force the tobacco companies to have warnings). Do your own research. The clean beauty movement has its faults like anything else. But it caused everyone to question everything (which they should anyway being how everyone now is so “scientific”).

[@stealthis]

Sucks because the idea behind it could mean something, IE products with a better environmental footprint and better ingredients for the consumer, but instead it's been co-opted by advertisers as a way to sell different for the sake of being different formulas for more money.

[@MegKampen]

Without them the only personal care products I would be using is a bar of glycerine soap. That's how bad my allergies.

[@rosewaters9991]

clean and non-clean are both bad for the environment, animals and our health. However, I feel a little better using non-clean beauty since the amounts of natural ingredients tend to be lower since they are using more lab created chemicals which are better controlled. Im not sure people realize the amount of plant material that is required to create clean beauty products, and what the implications are for the local communities and ecologies.

[@jessicawilson8240]

Literally any brand that says they’re free from chemical anything immediately loses any credibility in my book because it shows they have zero clue what chemicals actually are.

[@HadridarMatramen]

Same. Does your product contain an ingredient? Including air or water? Congratulations, it contains chemicals!

[@jessicawilson8240]

@@HadridarMatramen they could ship you a slip of sustainably sourced recycled paper printed on with vegetable ink and it would still be chemicals lol

[@MegKampen]

They mean toxic chemicals!

[@Waspinmymind]

@@MegKampen No because even water can be toxic to the body in the right amount. And I’d they meant toxic chemicals they would say so directly instead of lying to the consumer.

[@neonradius]

@@MegKampenEven if you’re correct and this is a genuine mistake on their part and they mean toxic chemicals, 1. why should I trust a company who can’t even advertise their product with the correct scientific terminology? 2. clean beauty brands convince you to buy them by assuming the worst of every other brand. If a chemical sunscreen brand slipped up and used a wrong phrase or term, clean beauty brands would crucify them and use it as another example of them deliberately lying to you. So why should these companies get the benefit of the doubt when they make mistakes?

[@itsAcroBapt]

Everytime one of these drops, I’m reminded on how predatory the industry can get about misinformation. It’s crazy that if you don’t have a PhD AND a burning passion for the subject there’s no reason for you to be able to decipher all the bullshit that has been carefully laid out. As usual great video 👌🏻

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

And unlimited time too! It's ridiculous and it shouldn't be this way... And thank you!

[@TORTOISESFORDAYS]

CAPITALISM BAYBAY

[@eileenm9252]

"If nature was really that safe, your product shouldn't have to exist"-- Good one!!!

[@presidiums4]

Dr. V has developed what she calls the "only 100% zinc sunscreen without a white cast"... I just checked Butyloctyl Salicylate is the 4th ingredient lol

[@michellelau4253]

I used to follow Dr V too, but I found it expensive and/or difficult to follow her sunscreen rules. It's clear that it's all to promote her brand and products. It's so disappointing

[@enoshima6699]

yikes

[@zareenakhatoon879]

She also says glycolic acid is bad for skin of color, however, as an Indian it works like wonders on my skin.

[@mashaa.7509]

Thats disappointing. Dr. V didnt directly tell people not to use chemical sunscreens, but certainly did discourage her viewers. Stating that we dont know the long term effects, specifics about blood stream absorption, pregnancy, yada yada. And then goes ahead and adds an unregulated, organic filter. LOL Creating problems to sell us the solution. Amazing

[@mushy470]

Yeah I just saw that. Honestly, that women has spread so much misinformation it's hard to count.

[@TheInspirefly]

Calling out hypocrisy like only a scientist can 👌

[@elfinvale]

your "Michelle is pissed at clean beauty" videos are always fantastic and this is an especially good one. i especially appreciate that you name names!! 15/10 video

[@Normi19]

Being a scientist, in the past year I've contacted some brands about how they achieve such a high SPF with such small amounts of ZnO or TiO2... they said 'antioxidants and special formulation', 'the FDA wouldn't allow us to rate it if it did not cover to that SPF', etc. I figured particle size and/or coatings and antioxidants were allowed to count. For me, antioxidants play a big role in my life, but not in my SPF rating. I don't want to remedy sun damage from that day's sun exposure, I want to prevent it altogether. Therefore, I immediately returned to my known chemical filters that I know protect me appropriately from UVB, UVA I and II. Now months later, this awesome video helps fill in the gaps.

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

There's a bit of controversy about whether antioxidants can actually affect SPF testing - there's a study by John Staton (one of the top SPF testing experts) where he found that hydrocortisone didn't affect the tested SPF, and I don't think any common antioxidants would work better than hydrocortisone at reducing redness... But yes, I think we can see part of the "special formulation" here 😒 The contract manufacturer making the 2% ZnO + 1% TiO2 sunscreen formula that a lot of brands are using does sell it as a "100% mineral" "no chemical sunscreen actives" "clean" formula and it's hard to imagine that they don't know better given how many scientists are on their team.

[@iamkateo]

I learn so much from your videos it is ridiculous. I have to admit I used to only use mineral sunscreens in the past (thanks, dermatologist!) and I have since swapped them out for all the awesome Korean sunscreens that are a joy to apply!

[@virtualworldofcraps2237]

May I know which brand do u currently use. Thank you 🙏

[@Normi19]

@@virtualworldofcraps2237 The last half year, for my face, I've been using Altruist Face SPF 50 because of its high UVA protection (~57), it is pretty elegant and very affordable. When I won't be able to reapply, I use Ultrasun Face Fluid SPF 50+ in tinted version - their UVA is somewhere in the 20-25, so it is a second choice for me. Prior to that I used Mesoprotech melan 130, which has a very high UVA protection of ~67 if I recall correctly, but it is very expensive and not easy for me to access; it is also tinted, which gives that "foundation look" that I do not like. For neck and body I use Ultrasun Extreme SPF50+ daily, and Altruist's SPF50+ if I will be in direct sun. For at home, I installed UV films on my windows and do not have to wear sunscreen even when working from home at my desk by my window.

[@TsubataLately]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! After your last video, I just knew this had to be coming, and I deeply appreciate it! As a dark skinned black woman, I find the widespread misinformation about mineral sunscreens actually malevolent. It's difficult enough to convince black people that sunscreen is of benefit to them. Promoting the use of sunscreens but demonizing chemical SPF filters, which will be a better choice for most dark skinned people, really just proves to me that these brands don't give a shit whether or not dark skinned people use SPF.

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Agreed! I felt like I ranted too much here already, but clean everything in general is an incredibly elitist form of marketing with historical roots in xenophobia and classism, and I could probably go into another half hour rant on that topic...

[@TsubataLately]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience Your passion for these topics is just another reason to love your content. ❤ I plan to share with a POC skincare group I belong to. Hopefully having this information will make it easier for someone to choose the best sunscreen for them. 🤞🏿🤞🏾🤞🏽🤞🏼🤞🏻

[@raraavis7782]

That's an interesting point. I wonder, why they're not being called out on this. Since they pride themselves on being super ethical and all that.

[@frankvelez4997]

@@raraavis7782 hi I'm Loretta De Los Rios using Frank's account to make this comment with his permission. Yes! Its BS. They are BS! It's a political agenda the Democrats & the Rhino's! ( Republicans In Name Only) 🙏🤲👋🎷🎸🎈🎹⚘🎶🎷🥂🎻🥰🇱🇷🤲🙏🇱🇷🙏🤲🎹

[@yusufa.1275]

Agreed, any particular recommendations?

[@Soondiss]

So I’ve been allergic to chemical sunscreens most of my adulthood and noticed I can be to almost every mineral sunscreen I’ve tried as well which left me baffled. Now I’m suspicious that there were inactivated chemical filters all along 😫.

[@Justcetriyaart]

And with in one use, I felt the allergic burning of chemical sunscreen from Neutrogena sheer 'mineral' sunscreen. As a black person, I realy do wish I wasn't allergic. Nothing about clean beauty, I just don't want to break out

[@jackb4014]

I am an MD and I totally fell prey to this clean beauty pseudoscience hype!! Thank you so much for knowing and going through the data. You are spreading an important message!

[@incognitofelon]

Don't feel bad. Even a lot of dermatologists buy into the "don't use chemical sunscreen" crap

[@prapanthebachelorette6803]

I am a pharmacy student and had a couple of mishaps too 😂

[@butterflygirl7254]

As someone who uses mineral sunscreens “just in case” I feel betrayed. I went to grab my bottle to check and yup. It’s got butyloctyl salicylate. I understand natural isn’t alway better for your skin, but in many cases it is for the earth so hearing how “chemical” sunscreens are actually biodegradable I’m just about to throw my bottle away out of anger. 😂

[@megsley]

please don't throw it out - don't give in to this fear mongering video 😂

[@humankaleidoscope4989]

@@megsley please explain how it’s fear mongering? I think it’s quite nuanced. If you actually watch it all the way through, of course.

[@angelachristina]

@@megsley what? how is michelle fear mongering? She explains ingredients and how this clean beauty brands are literally scamming people. She's not the one claiming that some ingredients are poisonous, hazardous and what not when they really aren't.

[@thiswillnotdo6027]

@@megsley the most ironic comment i've ever read because these channels are the ones trying to fight AGAINST fear mongering

[@theflyingspaget]

​@@megsleynot fear mongering at all but also, don't throw products away just because of stuff like this, if it works it works and throwing it out is a waste

[@rossspencer4676]

“I’m sure a lot of clean beauty brands are clueless they’re doing this, because you kind of have to be a bit clueless about science to be a clean beauty brand” drag them! I researched SPF boosters a while ago and noticed a lot of brands using butyloctyl salicylate (and interesting along with it Polysilicone-15 in mdsolarscience’s sunscreens which is literally Parsol SLX. I kind of wish more brands would sneak newer filters into the inactives like Krave did since the US won’t approve well-researched filters…), so this was a really interesting subject. As a consumer I don’t terribly mind brands that don’t fearmonger about “chemicals” adding UV boosters to make their combo/mineral sunscreens more effective/cosmetically elegant, but it’s a shame the bulk of the ones doing it are clean beauty brands either being negligent or intentionally misleading consumers. I’d love a separate video on salicylates in general since we use different ones for different things (aspirin, “willow bark extract” that your skin can’t actually convert to SA, trolamine salicylate which is I think going to get banned as a UV filter since I remember FDA calling it out in their addendum to the monograph for blood thinning cases, why salicylic acid itself isn’t allowed as UV filter which I think? is that it penetrates too quickly and doesn’t stay in the upper layers?, and then octyl and homosalate for UVB) and I’d love to learn more about why they are/aren’t as effective at different use cases. I switched my SA treatments to the morning a few years ago in case it does help scavenge UV at all. Always love your videos. Thanks, LabMuffin!

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

I don't think putting newer sunscreen ingredients into US sunscreens is ethical, but from a purely scientific POV I guess at least a different country has tested them?

[@rossspencer4676]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience that’s a really fair point. Since percentage of the traditional filters doesn’t indicate the final SPF, do you think using SPF boosters in general (or at least ones that do work as filters) is unethical even when not used to mislead consumers that the product is “clean”? They seem to fit the definition of an active ingredient in the US at least, not sure about elsewhere. In the US I’ve seen polysilicone-15 (in hair products), butyloctyl salicylate (in other random cosmetics), and DHHB/Uvinul A+ (in a lot of fragrances) used as conditioning agents/preservatives/etc., but maybe it’s unethical to include even trace amounts of a pending filter in a sunscreen for another purpose since we know it can filter UV. I also wonder how including antioxidants and ingredients that temporarily reduce redness come into play in a final measured SPF result vs the amount of actual photodamage. I’d say regulating inactive ingredients more closely is the answer to all of this, but we can’t even get any new active sunscreen ingredients passed in the US after years of data and several overhauls of the approval process (Sunscreen Innovation Act in 2014, CARES Act provisions around sunscreen in 2020). And yet drugs like Aducanumab with industry backing get approved with limited, cherry-picked clinical data. It’d be great if the US FDA would test the newer filters at all, perhaps in addition to continuing to test the same old ones that irritate some of us to the point of discouraging use…🤦🏼‍♂️

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Trace amounts are allowed to protect the product from UV, and it's often distinguished from protecting the skin in regulations - there's a bit of talk of

[@theEumenides]

It really reasonated with me when you talked about how clean beauty fear mongering leads to wasting resources to conduct studies on established science. It reminds me of how the medical community keeps trying to invain to quash the long debunked link between autism and vaccines. Unfortunately, clean beauty and it's ilk breed such a distrust in the scientific process that even further studies confirming the safety of certain ingredients isn't enough to undo the harm done by misinformation.

[@HadridarMatramen]

Yeah. I feel like people will just go "oh, but they claimed that previous studies proved it was safe already - why would they need to test again? What aren't they telling us?" or "But they lied to us about the safety once before - we can't trust them anymore!" ....And that's just the people who are invested enough to actually do ANY kind of research, even if it is just reading reviews or hearing their favourite TikToker rant. I fear the vast majority of people don't even do that. They just see a sunscreen in the store and see that it claims to be "great for sensitive skin", "non-toxic", "good for the environment" and think "Oh, well, that all sounds like stuff I want! Let's buy it!" without even knowing anything about any of this.

[@danfinaldi6367]

KEEP DOING THE LORD'S WORK, MICHELLE.

[@amandaparei]

“They are kind of telling on themselves “, was perfection 😂

[@eobrien1]

Loved this video, but Michelle I was not prepared to have my mind blown today 😩. Literally as soon as you said butyloctyl salicylate, I went, “Oh, like Colorscience sunscreens!” & then you told us. I’ve actually noticed my skin seems to like spfs w in it. I have been a mineral only girl for my face-not because I fear chemical ones in any way-but for my rosacea. I’ve never found a chemical face sunscreen I could tolerate. So you’ve actually made my day: Apparently my rosacea having self can…actually wear chemical sunscreens on my face??! I am thrilled 😂 I seriously wonder now if my only issue was the avobenzone, since I’m in the US.

[@gategirl66]

Same here.. I didn't know anything about the ridiculous Colorescience claims, I just use it because it doesn't aggravate my Rosacea. And as much as I despise "clean beauty" claims, I'll keep using it because I like it 🤷🏻‍♀️ I will admit I've lost a lot of respect for them, though 😕

[@allief2000]

I’ve found that my skin really doesn’t like chemical sunscreens I put on it from the US, but chemical or hybrid Korean sunscreens don’t irritate me at all. Must be something about the limited range of chemical filters available in the US.

[@kzvegansuperstar]

It’s weird, I have rosacea too and I can’t tolerate old-generation chemical filters (and I haven’t been able to tolerate octisalate even when it’s the only old-gen chemical filter in the formula with all new-gen chemical filters) but I have zero issues with Butyloctyl Salicylate in mineral sunscreens

[@eobrien1]

@@kzvegansuperstar I am the same. I’ve tried the newer generation chemical filters and still have the same issues. But the butyloctyl salicylate gives me no issues

[@JeziKrislarenmenou]

It sounds like we have had similar sunscreen-related experiences, and, if you haven't tried this one (or its filters) before, I think you might want to look in to Round Lab's Birch Juice sunscreen. I've been using it for almost six months and haven't experienced any irritation so far.

[@makeupeclectic]

This helped me realize why I'm having an allergic reaction to an ostensibly mineral only sunscreen, thank you!

[@sarahjabush214]

This is a great video. I wish I could show this to our marketing team. I'm a formulator and I use octisalate's twin brother very often. And everything you said here is correct. I roll my eyes when I see mineral sunscreens products demonize chemical sunscreens while including butyl octylsalicylate in the formula, often in a high enough concentration to be one of the first 3 or 4 ingredients on the ingredient list. Thanks for sharing this information.

[@Snmh98]

hi Michelle! loving this video!! from a suncare chemist's POV, butyloctyl salicylate is indeed an easy way out for us to achieve a higher SPF with lower amounts of UV filters. of course it produces an elegant final product with minimal white cast and pleasant texture. using anti-inflammatories is also a way to get around it (like the new Tarte silk sunscreen). with the marketing, my guess is that these brands mainly use contract manufacturers (OEM, ODM) and their contract manufacturer unfortunately doesn't service them enough to tell these brand teams what they can say and cannot say! and most of the time these brand teams have little science/chemistry background to actually understand the nuances of these 'harmful' chemical filters.

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Thanks for your input! Do anti-inflammatories really make a measurable difference? There's a study that John Staton did where he used 2% hydrocortisone and it didn't change the measured SPF...

[@Snmh98]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience I would say this is a really tricky one to be very honest. lots of products on the market have anti inflamms and the common ones seen are bisabolol, allantoin, calendula extract (or other anti inflammatory plant extracts) and beta glucan. on top of that, lots of suppliers in the UK (I work in the UK) have product offerings that claim to be boosters but have these anti inflammatories in it (eg. Sunboost ATB by Kobo). If there are other studies to corroborate the John Staton study then it means these boosters aren't well backed! but suppliers would have their own set of data as well if they'd launched raw material blends to offer SPF boosting properties.. it is definitely a grey area unfortunately!

[@celestema2506]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience I had seen an at-home experiment where someone put on different SPFs and antioxidant oils on their back marked with grids and exposed the back in the sun for a few hours. Some of the antioxidant seemed to have somewhat "sunscreen property", visually similar to SPF 15 protection

[@jenessastrickland1555]

🤯 Whoa. I’ve never really bought into the “natural is better” crap, but I have sought out mineral sunscreens after developing melasma. Between that and having sensitive skin, the advice you get here in the US is to try to avoid chemical sunscreens, unless you are really really sure that your chemical or hybrid sunscreen is not irritating your skin or worsening your melasma. I don’t even know if that advice is based on fact/science, and I suspect it only applies to US chemical filters. But my favorite mineral sunscreen? Hero Force Shield. Butyloctyl salicylate is the 7th inactive ingredient 😕 Thank you so much for explaining all of this!

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

I think there's some merit to the "US chemical sunscreens are irritating" argument, at least in a subset of people. But I don't think it's necessarily due to the regulations and what's allowed, since there are sunscreens that fit the US criteria that are aesthetically far better e.g. Bondi Sands. I think it might be partly a cultural thing, e.g. US sunscreen makers don't feel the need to work as hard on formulation since the marketplace isn't as competitive, the US habit of adding offensively strong fragrances to every drugstore product...

[@JeziKrislarenmenou]

I'm not a scientist, but I think you're correct. I've used primarily inorganic filters throughout adulthood because when I was growing up in the US, the available organic filters + heavy fragrance would aggravate my rosacea and make reapplication literally painful. Now, I've found a sunscreen with organic filters that don't irritate my skin (Round Lab's Birch Juice sunscreen really is all that), but even my long-term holy grail La Roche-Posay Anthelios Mineral apparently contains butyloctyl salicylate. I guess it really is all about formulation!

[@00Just_Another00]

Try zinc based sunscreens.

[@humankaleidoscope4989]

@@00Just_Another00 huh? If she’s using inorganic sunscreens then she probably has been trying zinc oxide sunscreens haha. Most of them are zinc oxide based rather than titanium dioxide based

[@noora7773]

@@JeziKrislarenmenou I have rosacea, and I have found such help from avoiding fragrance and alcohol in face skincare. If I try (European version) La Roche Posay fragrance free chemical sunscreens, they burn like hell on my face because of the alcohol. But when I use Asian (Korean or Japanese) fragrance & alcohol free chemical sunscreens, everything is fine. Zinc oxide can be quite irritating for dry skin, but newer chemical filters might be great. It' s really great that there's lots of options nowadays to try...

[@wallycola5653]

I've always wondered why they don't include inactive ingredients that absorb UV. So I guess the answer is that they do

[@geniej2378]

That makes them active ingredients, they should be in the actives list

[@sunscreenhoarder6558]

@@geniej2378well no, “active” ingredients are ones that must have clinical data proving they are in fact actives as well as data showing what safe levels are, what interactions one might expect and what side effects they might cause. That’s the point Michelle is making here. There is no real data showing any of that for these ingredients so they literally can’t be listed as active filters and quite rightfully, too. The issue here is that brands have backed themselves into a corner with their bullshit marketing and are finding increasingly sneaky ways out of that corner rather than just coming clean

[@dawn8080]

I am baffled by this fear mongering from "clean beauty brands", I've never even heard the rhetoric that sunscreen is more dangerous that the sun. Only reason I mainly use the ones that's marketed as "physical" on my body is because it's cost efficient, the higher the spf the more expensive here in Norway. I don't like a white cast so I splurge more on the one for my face which usually means the ones that are marketed as chemical. I love an educated rant so new subscriber here 👍🏼

[@SheriApproved]

I discovered this through trial and error and you just literally blew the lid off! And yep my favorite "mineral sunscreens" all contain Butyloctyl Salicylate! The misinformation has to stop! OMG! Such a great video Michelle.

[@humankaleidoscope4989]

Same here. Now I’m not sure what to do?

[@SheriApproved]

@@humankaleidoscope4989 I've actually started using hybrid sunscreens and all chemical sunscreens with the new generation filters for about 2 years now and have been able to do so with no issues. Prior to this I used strictly "mineral only sunscreens". I was so surprised because I get skin irritation and reactions to most of the traditional older filters that are FDA approved. My whole sunscreen world has opened up.

[@humankaleidoscope4989]

@@SheriApproved yeah I’ve been considering doing the same. I’ve found sunscreens with organic filters irritating in the past but I’ve only tried the older filters here in Canada. Im considering getting one of the Korean sunscreens labmuffin recommends but most of those aren’t tinted and HEV light is a concern for me due to hyperpigmentation :( may just use foundation or a BB cream on top. Which hybrid sunscreens do you like?

[@SheriApproved]

@@humankaleidoscope4989 yes maybe try one and see how it reacts and I do the same. Just use a bb cream or foundation. I'm From the Caribbean and getting Tinted sunscreens for our skin tones are quite difficult. Michelle had some great recommendations. What's your skin type though or the finish you like?

[@pegacorn13]

@@humankaleidoscope4989 Try a mineral sunscreen with no Butyloctyl Salicylate like BADGER.

[@franciscolodix1214]

Omg I love the rant. And I absolutely agree with everything you said. It is getting annoying because they are making damage to the market and people.

[@gabrielt818]

I used to watched hyram when starting off skincare. All the misinformation and fear mongering about chemical sunscreen and fragrances. Even as a chemist, I fell for all that. Then I found you and dr dray. Thank you. And thank god.

[@awkwardgenxer1023]

For me in the USA the old fashioned chemical sunscreens irritate me-after a couple of days of use they burn. They also often sting my eyes. The mineral sunscreens dry out my skin and irritate it with their gritty texture. This makes me bounce back and forth between the two trying to stay ahead of the dryness and irritation. I SO wish it was easier to get the new chemical sunscreens approved. I really want to try the formulas already available in other countries.

[@SpaceOutlaw_]

Try buying Japanese and Korean sunscreens from yestyle or similar site. They tend use the newer chemical filters that are gently. As for mineral, there’s actually a few that are nice and smooth. Pipette, la roche posay minerals, elta md Uv elements, catpahil liquid mineral for face (more of a natural Mayte but not irritating).

[@raraavis7782]

I have similar issues and I love the Cetaphil pro redness control tinted moisturizer spf30. Great product. Applies very smoothly and the slight cast disappears after a minute or so. And it's formulated for people with very sensitive skin. Not too expensive, either. It's my go to, unless I really need hardcore sun protection.

[@mignonalverson655]

Same!

[@HangNguyen-ih8rf]

Go get yourself some Korean SPF they way ahead of the game.

[@fernlin-healy2174]

This is one of your best videos, in addition to your "do you need to wear sunscreen indoors" video. I had no idea. For years I bought into the hype and only used mineral sunscreens. The information in this video needs to be more widely known.

[@andavee]

I am majorly allergic to Zinc and Zinc Oxide. Everyone thinks I am lying because zinc is supposed to be the "harmless" ingredient in "mineral" and therefore "safe" sunscreens.

[@nepri_dymal]

Honestly one of my favorite video you’ve ever made. I can’t imagine anyone else on this platform coming out to cover this, BIG respect

[@AR-md1zq]

Oh my goodness chemical sunscreens usually irritate my skin but colorscience doesn’t so maybe I can look for hybrid sunscreens of zinc and octisalate. Thanks for the information! I thought I was limited because of my irritation with all chemical sunscreens but I feel so much better that maybe zinc octisalate hybrid sunscreens may not be irritating

[@debayeuxchats5607]

That you for even more sunscreen talk, Ms Muffin!! I can eat up these videos every day. Unlike actual sunscreen, which I'd rather just not consume.

[@veronamasongsong5607]

This makes so much sense!! When I was pregnant I tried multiple "100% mineral" sunscreens bc of "potential risks". Even though I'm not a believer that sunscreens go into the bloodstream, I also didn't want to be the Mom that didn't take every precaution... and each of the sunscreens I tried gave my skin a burning feeling. I would add/remove products to uncover the culprit and it was always the sunscreen... so I went back to my trusty Pyunkang Yul sunscreen. Wow... thank you so much Michelle. You are making a difference in the world!!

[@jordanbeau7348]

I am allergic to chemical sunscreens and this just spooked me so good. 😱 All I want is to not break out in hives.

[@mihaeladog7187]

OMG 😱 I am on youtube for more than 10 yrs but you’re the only channel that I hit the notification bell. “If I sound mad it’s bc I am mad “ … I hear you , now I’m mad too 😬

[@debpalm8667]

After trying MANY chemical sunscreens I gave up and bought 2 bottles of skinceutical fusion SPF 50. Still burned skin and eyes, just not as long. Now I know why! Hundreds of dollars gone and still failed to protect myself. Thanks 👍.

[@dinapawlow1622]

WoW! The world needs more of this effort, knowledge, logic, honesty, and deep dive into the science. Excellent postings and I am so grateful. I am such a sucker for “clean”. I know better now because you have the education to inform the unsuspecting and gullible public. ❤️

[@bonnigans8014]

I’ve been freed from so many skin care myths since watching your vids. The most recent that made my wallet very happy was I felt absolutely safe buying plain old $5 deodorant instead of the $12 “natural” deodorant. Thanks! Also love the rant energy haha

[@elettramia6380]

Ya I was worried about buying the spray deodorant due to another video about it being “toxic”. I can’t use the regular stick deodorant because for some reason I guess it clogs my pores there and I develop boils. With the spray deodorant I don’t have this issue. I also started using acne medication to clean my armpits area and that’s helped a lot too.

[@becauselesliesays]

The energy in your rant is exactly how I feel when trying to get people to understand the importance of GOOD sunscreens. Except I get all upset and can’t express myself as clearly as you. Great video, thanks for the wisdom!

[@erin470]

The reason I reach for mineral is because I get an allergic reaction after using chemical sunscreens. My reactions is a very itchy/bumpy rash that lasts for weeks- I have had to be prescribed steroid medication twice for extreme reactions. I have noticed people have been increasingly anti-mineral sunscreen, which I totally understand because most are thick and leave obvious white casts. I just want people to realize that a lot of people want these sunscreens not because they are “clean beauty” but bc some people aren’t able to use chemical sunscreens.

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Agreed, some people do need them! But at the same time, it's rare to be allergic to all chemical sunscreens, and so many "mineral" sunscreens actually have these "inactives" - I was recently talking to a friend with very sensitive skin who reacted to a "mineral" SPF 50 formula but not their "mineral" SPF 30, and it turns out there was an additional octocrylene analogue in the 50, while both SPF 30 and 50 just had butyloctyl salicylate. So she discovered she's probably allergic to octocrylene but not octisalate, and found out a new ingredient to look out for.

[@Damnsaburna]

Same. I have an allergy and have to use the mineral sunscreen. I also have had prescriptions in the past. Once i had a severe all over reaction that caused extreme swelling and i didnt even wear any i was just rubbing against people at a music festival that had tons on.

[@Damnsaburna]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience im too scared to test different ingredients. I have no reaction to mineral sunscreen at spf 30.But i want more and something with no white cast so i will wear more often.

[@Justcetriyaart]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience than I'll keep in mind to try for 30 instead of 50

[@humankaleidoscope4989]

@@Justcetriyaart she means for that particular spf 30 vs their spf 30. They’re not all formulated the same so it wouldn’t always be the case

[@a.c.1839]

As someone who uses mineral sunscreen for non-clean-beauty-related reasons (namely, chemical sunscreens exacerbate my heat intolerance and mineral ones are the only ones that don't make me sweat as much) this pisses me off to no end

[@foxwaffles]

It makes me SO angry too!!! I have a friend who almost bought into clean beauty and clean ingredients and I managed to steer her away but she was basically being preyed upon at her most vulnerable time. These horrid, horrid companies. I will never support clean beauty

[@LP-zc4gy]

On the plus side, just checked my favorite mineral sunscreen, and it DOES contain butyloctyl salicylate, which means maybe it's not the octisalate causing rashes! I'll have to see on a day when I'm more exposed to sun (the rash I get often only occurs when I'm wearing certain sunscreens and when those parts are exposed to the sun). To make matters worse, I ALSO get a rash from extended sunlight exposure, so it's hard to tell sometimes whether it's the sunscreen or uneven application causing the issue. So, on one hand, it's nice to know I might have more sunscreen options than I thought, but it's also fustrating that companies aren't transparent about ingredients ESPECIALLY when trying to rule out allergens! I'm not using "clean beauty" because I think it's better, I'm using it because it's easier to rule out a narrower list of ingredients and because I don't want to have to remember some long, scientific name when I'm at the store checking ingredients for allergens!

[@inneromen]

i love how informative your videos are, and how much critical thinking i gain from them, I'm looking for a mineral sunscreen for a limited period of time because i've introduced retinol in my routine and chemical sunscreens make my skin feel hot upon application on the following days and it's scary and i was hoping mineral sunscreens feel better

[@bettyrose1347]

I’m loving the rants on clean beauty. Please do more.

[@GirlXO]

Another great video ❤ The amount of misinformation and fear mongering is sad because so many people fervently believe it, which shifts overall consumer attitudes, and hinders actual process.

[@Leahslittlepatchofparadise]

I love this! I can't wear zinc sunscreen because it makes my skin burn and sting, it was so reassuring to me watching this❤️

[@timmyecarter3449]

THANK YOU!!! we need more debunking of misinformation and less marketing fear mongering!!!

[@Shattered-Earth]

Ahh this is a very informative video! It's so frustrating because I am one of the few who really are allergic to some chemical sun screens and I'd prefer to just buy mineral to not chance it, but if companies "hide" what they use like this I can't effectively control what I use. I don't just get a break out or something if i hit the wrong kind of chemical, my face breaks out in painful blisters all over for days :(, i'd rather know the whole truth of what's in there cause it's not just the money, but the real long lasting pain to keep "trying" more brands/ ingredients.

[@Cesiaj]

Thanks for this Michelle! I hope what people take away from this is it’s ok to use whatever sunscreen works for their skin, but to be careful of all the false marketing and green-washing some brands do. With skincare formulation advancements, I no longer care if my sunscreen is mineral or chemical or hybrid. My requirements are simple: non-eye/skin burning, no white cast and pilling, won’t break me out, won’t leave me oily, and maybe independent lab certified. Oh, and affordable. If it costs an arm and a leg, no thanks 😆

[@DavidCruickshank]

"I'm sure a lot of clean beauty brands have no idea about this because you kind of have to be a bit clueless about science to be a clean beauty brand in the first place" The shade of it all! 🤣🤣😂😂

[@pame8872]

The depth of your knowledge and your passion for truth are both beautiful!! Thank you for sharing both with us!!

[@rmgqwzxiytfj]

'Diethylhexyl Syringylidenemalonate' is also another inactive booster ingredient you will see fairly often used in US sunscreens.

[@Catherine-f8i]

So my sunscreen has this listed as the 13th of 29 inactive ingredients. Would that be considered a high amount? The only active ingredient is 4.20% titanium dioxide…SPF 30. This specific sunscreen has always worried me- doesn’t seem like enough active anything in the formulation to be SPF 30. Hopefully I’m wrong!

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Yep! Not sure if it's too small but it's in the diagram at 27:09 on the top right - I tried to map the filters by structural similarity but trying to make it clear while also making a rectangle was a challenge, I might add some lines to it... it's an analogue of octinoxate, but there are enough differences that I think a separate safety assessment would be warranted.

[@MD_Can]

Thanks for the great info. I am allergic to chemical sunscreen so now I know I'm not crazy when experiencing irritation ti my skin & eyes when using Colorescience mineral sunscreen.

[@sunscreenhoarder6558]

How do I tag some skincare influencers without actually tagging them?

[@kagitsune]

Sent it to them in their DMs, like "omg have you heard of this?? 😱😱😱" Idk if it will work or just push them further into their siloes, but whatever.

[@charlie58ize]

Lol. I’ve a few I’d like to ask to provide evidence for their claims.

[@stevie9091]

Good to see “Clean Beauty” being caught in their lies. I can see the fire 🔥 burning while you’re going through the list 😄. Thanks for the detailed video.

[@juliemoses1909]

Marketing is the worst. Watching KZbin, I keep seeing the Lumi ads which are starting to make me wonder if I am smelling because it’s been a few hours since I’ve had a shower.

[@elizabethevelyn7125]

Damn Michelle you took no prisoners with this one huh 😆 Also you helped me figure out why two of my "all mineral" sunscreens still sting my eyes. (My eyes react badly to all US-approved organic filters.) Sure enough, that's an ingredient in both!

[@busunscreen]

Thank you for being you! I appreciate your education, background, and knowledge of ingredients and willingness to call out the lies that companies continue to spew out.

[@cassandrahempel9036]

Keep up the rants! They’re super informative and I love how you started with an explanation about the “inactive ingredients.” Its really frustrating how dedicated they are to putting content out there that to the average consumer may seem scientific. Im sticking to slathering on my chemical sunscreens!

[@Dermarkologist]

Great video as usual! I’ve always wondered how there is so much variability in mineral SPFs with similar zinc/titanium concentrations and vice versa, and now I understand

[@Dermarkologist]

And your comment about the pregnancy fearmongering was salient- I see this play out so frequently

[@zuleymacatherine]

Omg please never stop getting mad and giving us the Tea!! I love all the factual information you give us💗

[@daniellabirch2600]

Thank you for doing this video. I have extremely sensitive skin and have avoided cosmetics almost my whole life because of it. I have learned the hard way that "hypoallergenic" is basically B.S. I wish there was better regulation of the beauty industry at large. When we moved to Utah, I had to start using sunscreen more frequently and I learned that my skin does not respond well to chemical sunscreens at all. Imagine hives all over your body everywhere the light touches. I would switch to a different brand and the same thing would happen. I learned that my body does not respond well to repeated use of chemical sunscreen and this is especially frustrating that a sunscreen can be labelled as a mineral sunscreen but contain chemical sunscreen additives. I am already pretty vigilant about ingredient labels because of my allergies but your video has given me a few more things to check for. Thank you and shame on these "clean beauty" companies for deceiving people like that. In case you were wondering, it doesn't appear that any of my mineral sunscreens contain these ingredients, but I definitely don't want to find out how my skin would react if they did!

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

I've had a handful of people tell me that they found these ingredients in the mineral sunscreens their skin couldn't tolerate since this video went up! It's really frustrating - one potential solution would be if the US would finally approve the newer chemical filters that are much better at staying on the skin's surface, which greatly reduces the potential for allergies, irritation, systemic effects AND white cast, bad texture etc...

[@madhurapadwal4024]

Michelle ripping on clean beauty is my favourite content ❤️

[@KatjeKat86]

Before I found easy access to foreign sunscreens I only used mineral sunscreens. I'm allergic to avobenzone and it is everywhere in the chemical sunscreen offerings in America. I've only recently found some hybrids sunscreens locally that don't contain it. I hope more companies come out with hybrid sunscreen preferably without the chemical I'm allergic to.

[@dowikr]

ah man, I use both the Colorescience SPF 50, and the Dr Dennis Gross "All Physical" SPF 30 -- not because I'm a clean beauty girlie, but because organic sunscreens have always caused me some issues, so I just assumed I had to go down the mineral only route. good to know I actually tolerate combination sunscreens quite well, though! lolololol also, major wow @ Colorescience's marketing, I've been blissfully unaware. thank you for all you do, Michelle!!!!

[@tleigh4583]

Hyram made me scared of chemical sunscreens. I was using an affordable chemical sunscreen daily. Now I’ve wasted tons of money on mineral sunscreens that irritated my skin or left me pale as a ghost. Two years later I’ve turned around and bought another chemical sunscreen 🙄 What a waste

[@hippo92210b]

Thank you! I hope this content can change a few minds and move popular sentiment toward organic filters to a better place. I consider this clean beauty trend even more dangerous than the more crazy discourses like "5G gives C*vid". That's because brands actively prey on people by leveraging that to sell them products, which reinforces and puts a seal of credibility on baseless arguments.

[@kagitsune]

Definitely. Check out descriptions of the "wellness to alt-right pipeline" 😬

[@Shoekarton]

I would love a video from you on liquid micro-plastics/water-solluble polymers in cosmetics

[@bluepapillion5232]

Thank you for the rant, it was awesome! As someone with sensitive skin wearing sunscreen was an absolute must for going out in the summer sun.

[@donnaokane502]

Oh my goodness, thank you so much for putting together this video. I feel your anger as well. This clean beauty thing has gone to a whole new level with this.

[@sheenatran2600]

Thank you Lab Muffin you are bravo for education us about sunscreen. I had melasma and I was so worried about my sunscreen and don’t know which one is good anymore. It’s a very confused subject about chemical and mineral sunscreen. Thank you for speaking the truth so we can carefully choose our sunscreen in the future. Keep up your good detective work and keep us safe ❤

[@Brittainy89]

I have never liked mineral sunscreens (I also feel like my skin is more breakout prone with it), and I never really liked the “clean” moniker but they really make you feel guilty for using chemical sunscreens! And how dare you put them on your kids or pregnant self. This video made me feel so much better. These companies should be fined - it’s so wrong! Thank you for the educational content!

[@schibbolethsquad44]

Today I found my newest pet peeve with "Clean Beauty": there's a clean beauty brand called Sante. They advertise two of their serums with claims of "Retinol effect" or "Niacinamide effect". Mind you, they don't use niacinamide or retinol because the the product would contain "chemicals". But they know that retinol and niacinamide are popular and proven to be effective. It's the same principle the clean beauty brands apply here by using a chemical sunscreen but calling themselves purely mineral. They want their cake and eat it too. Edit: Wrong brand name.

[@marsy6359]

It kills me that theyre doing this with… vitamins? I havent checked them out but clean brands always tout extracts “packed with vitamins and minerals.” Absolute deranged hypocrisy.

[@raraavis7782]

That's actually kinda the reason, I stopped using clean/natural skin care. Once I Iearned about these active ingredients and couldn't find them on the labels of natural skincare brands, I went: 'well, screw this!' 😅

[@mrname7379]

Thank you much for this video. After watching this, I felt confident in applying my chemical sunscreen or combination without any worry anymore.

[@thientran-rd3qk]

@lab muffin : OMG, thank youuuu soooo much for your video and your blog!!! It is sooo tricky and crazy that many "clean" brands say they dont use any chemical filters, but they use unregulated ones!! I now know what sunscreen to choose!! Keep it up!

[@Gigifrancetexas]

Please please more info about “reef safe” sunscreen. I’m more confused than ever !

[@Noreen_Ni_Riain]

wooo new lab muffin!! kill that clean beauty mindset, Michelle 🥳

[@abriltorres4063]

This rant is my type of rant thanks for informing and clarifying so many things we not chem experts don’t know

[@Timmy-do9ie]

This video just makes me want to give up using sunscreens all together. I am pregnant and have been told by several doctors to use mineral sunscreens only so have been using the ultra Violette mineral sunscreen (which is a joy to use, not a chore like you describe). Though it may not contain the 2 ingredients you spoke about in this video, the whole video just made me feel disheartened that what other ingredients in it could be like what you described. I am not a 'clean beauty' believer but it doesn't seem to matter where you look, even professionals don't seem to fully agree on the "safe" chemicals of sunscreens...I'm just going to buy UV protection clothing and a big hat...

[@syd379]

When I tell you I LIVE for these videos … love this. Thank you for taking so much time to teach us!

[@msdaphne]

Thank you for this. On Oct 1, Maui is implementing a mineral only sunscreen law for coral reef protection. This means that both sale AND use of non-mineral sunscreen will be outlawed on the island.

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Yeah, it's unfortunate because the ban isn't warranted according to the evidence - the National Academies report that came out recently goes through the evidence and comments on the bans.

[@okashi10]

Thank you for helping to break down these complicated concepts for us! I feel like even many popular "skinfluencers" don't know these things and greatly benefit from your videos. You are making a difference!

[@colinf2316]

We love a Michelle rant. Let it out. Don't feel bad for ranting. I'm getting so tired of being lied to in marketing. Also, if people are so afraid of sunscreen, wear UPF clothing.

[@butterpoweredbike6135]

More like this please. Be mad. Let it all out. Blast the world with your knowledge and passion!

[@lorainemcgillivray77]

Hi Michelle this was amazing! I have never had anything against "chemical" spfs, but when I developed rosacea (in addition to the lifelong eczema) many of them REALLY didn't work for me - burning, stinging, rashes, swelling etc. this doe not apply to all of them however and in particular hybrid spf's often work pretty well for me. I live in the UK, so I have decent access to a wide variety of formulations from around the world. My absolute favourite is ultrasun and it has been for many many years. I do quite like a mineral tinted spf as a "tinted moisturiser" over the top, instead of wearing foundation type products during the heat of the Summer. In actual fact I quite like the colourscience original tint used in this manner on my very dry skin, but good for you on calling out all the BS marketing and misinformation. As part of my rosacea management spf is an essential, in addition to it's function of preventing skin cancer obviously. Many mineral spf's are really drying on my already extremely dry skin and truthfully my skin isn't keen on a load of alcohol in any product - not because I don't understand it's function in spf, but because my skin is quite sensitive to it. Spf is a product I believe is very trial and error (to find something hyper sensitive/reactive skin will tolerate on a daily basis), but when you do it makes life much easier. I'll continue to use my hybrid spf's while they work the best for me. Best wishes. ps the clean marketing is indeed incredibly problematic and seems to be as pervasive as the antiperspirant debunked myth re breast cancer. The spf message is indeed going backwards and the education is suffering due to misinformation - it's so disappointing as a former Registered Nurse for a couple of decades.

[@raraavis7782]

You would probably like the Cetaphil pro redness control tinted moisturizer spf30. It's been available in Europe for a while now and my personal holy grail. It applies well, the slight cast completely disappears after a minute and it's (amazingly) neither drying nor overly shiny. And it's formulated for people with rosaceae/eczema. I react to many chemical sunscreens and they especially make my eyes burn like hell. This one, I've been wearing daily for 6+ months now, without issues or discomfort. And it's not ridiculously expensive either, which I really appreciate as a daily user.

[@lorainemcgillivray77]

@@raraavis7782 Thank you. The night moisturiser version of this is one I've used as a daycream a few times, but the tint on the spf version looks very orange on me and didn't work out. i'm glad it works for you though.

[@EmA-gb9cv]

Wow, I've been following you for a long while now and this is your BEST video ever! I love the way you " rant" and some of the things you say...I've written them down (I will quote you on what you said about nature, brillant!) You are witty, sincere and a real fighter! I hope you never change. Great video, thank you for telling the truth.

[@nandiniinfinity]

Michelle, in your research over the years, have you come across useful information for people who experience allergy-like symptoms from facial sunscreen? Like a runny nose, low key but persistent burning of the eyes (different from the eyes stinging on contact with sunscreen), scratchy or sore throat etc. This must be a small group of people but a very frustrated one! If you could look into what kind of sunscreen filters, formulations, and products are less likely to trigger or aggravate such symptoms, that would be excellent. Thank you for all your work!

[@melody_shmelody]

I am one of these people and came here to ask this also! The zinc and titanium ones are the only ones that don’t make me react like this :(

[@JosiphiaRizado]

Why this video not viral???

[@ramenhair7178]

You're literally saving lives Michelle

[@DesArtandInk]

I really wish protecting the coral reefs was as easy as switching sunscreens :(

[@kinakomochi_cats]

This is interesting I am allergic to chemical sunscreens (I get a rash with them). Now I understand why some mineral sunscreens also give me the rash and others don't (regardless of the use of fragrance). I might be allergic to that whole family, cousins, twins, outlawed brothers and what not. Will check that out!

[@kinakomochi_cats]

Which also means I might not be allergic to ALL chemical sunscreens? That would be great

[@applecrust2638]

Another thing I noticed, especially with the reviews of physical sunscreens that you showed, is that many people don't use the appropriate amount of product, because if they did, it would look like a white mask. So they're actually getting less protection.

[@arguchik]

Yes! She points that out in the video, but it bears repeating. I love that she included a screenshot of when she tried to apply enough of a mineral sunscreen to be effective, and it looks like she's in clownface. LOL.

[@cherylrenkl9768]

Science for the win!! Thanks for letting us join your rant🥳

[@dunlapcap]

Just by the title…shots fired.

[@shawnahare4299]

I like it when you get " angry ". I learn so much.

[@saratownsend1122]

I just love a mad LabMuffin. 😊 Finally having a good rant at "clean beauty" 😘

[@nikih.3]

This is the response I rec'd from Colourscience when I asked them about Butyloctyl Salicylate actually being a chemical sunscreen ingredient: "Thank you for your Colorescience inquiry. Many people confuse Butyloctyl Salicylate with chemical sunscreens because they are so often used together, and because the compositional structure of butyloctyl salicylate is in the same family as some chemical sunscreen actives. Butyloctyl Salicylate is a multifunctional ingredient and dispersing agent ideal for use in a variety of products such as sunscreens, skin care, and color cosmetics. It is typically used to solubilize and stabilize chemical sunscreens (which we don’t use, like Avobenzone or Oxybenzone) or as a dispersing agent for mineral sunscreens, which can assist in SPF effectiveness since we know that proper dispersion leads to a better application and product consistency in terms of actives Titanium Dioxide and Zinc Oxide. Since mineral sunscreens are insoluble, it is especially meaningful to have a superior dispersion. As a bonus, it’s also cosmetically elegant, has excellent spreadability and a nice, moisturizing skin feel."

[@incognitofelon]

And it's also a chemical sunscreen that we can sneak in without indicating in the active ingredients. What a hypocrisy.