LADIES: find your DARK HORSE, or: how to land a good man

[@psychacks]

Thinking of going to grad school? Check out STELLAR, my top-rated program and the world's only empirically-validated GRE test prep system. Use the code "PSYCH" for 10% off all membership plans: stellargre.com. Rich Strike, the winner of the 2022 Kentucky Derby, had 99-1 odds! This one's for the ladies! In this episode, I'm going to discuss a useful mate selection strategy for straight women. Research indicates that the vast majority of you are competing for the relatively small percentage of men at the top of the hierarchy. While this seems like a good strategy, as these guys have already demonstrated that they possess the traits you might be looking for, it means that you're potentially only one option among many for the men you are targeting. A better approach is to find your dark horse: an underdog performer who ends up winning the race. Orion is a licensed psychologist in the state of California. Podcast available on Spotify, Instagram, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and others. See the "About" tab for more information on donations and consultations. Website: oriontarabanpsyd.com #dating #relationships #darkhorse

[@McFlyYouSlacker]

A great example of this is Connor McGregor's partner, Dee Devlin. She stuck with him when he was just starting out and was claiming benefits from the government and now he's living and Alpha Male Millionaire Life and taking her with him

[@Sinsteel]

As a man, a woman who would be at my side while I build and achieve "victory" is worth far more and far more deserving of loyalty than one who just shows up for the "winner's circle".

[@timgibney5590]

Women do not care about your struggles. They hang out at the finish line and pick the winners - Richard Cooper. Thanks to dating apps she can wait

[@mbg9650]

Would you call loyalty if her motivation is to infiltrate your network and monkey branch on you?

[@bujin5455]

@@timgibney5590 yep, she can wait right there next to every other woman playing that same game. And she can fight over the small number of men who make it, who are now quite jaded, and who also now have their pick of other women. ...it's a losing strategy for women. Which is the point of the video.

[@timgibney5590]

@@bujin5455 They don't care dude. They would rather be single if he ain't as rich as Ricardo was at that club with the Ferrari back in 2011 when she was cute.

[@thecinc]

Women absolutely care! But when men move up, they move on.

[@Hari983]

Oddly enough, one of my search criteria was to find a lady who was LOOKING FOR a dark horse! My idea was that a woman who would bet on a man based on his potential speaks of better qualities than the 95% lazy women who confine their search radius* to those who have already crossed the finish line. I can also add to what you said that a man would infinitely be more grateful to her for believing in his potential and betting on him. That's certainly what happened with me and my wife, and I haven't failed her either. :)

[@shaunhunterit342]

Nice

[@JoaquimGonsalves]

Brother!!! I fully agree with your ideology here! Only a sincere and humble man can be worthy of such a woman. Anyone else opposite who tries to pull this card would actually be a bad thing. And I certainly pray that no good woman makes a bad decision. I don't know if you're religious but may God bless your sincerity and your marriage abundantly. Amen. Also, thank you as this gives me hope. While I don't think I'm as good as you, this has been my driving force (I hope to God) and hopefully I'll be worthy of such a woman too.

[@lumiere3619]

Women are very attracted to potential... this is why women in their 20s are coupling up with men in their 20s who don't have much...

[@reesedaniel5835]

Unless your name is Daniel Broderick III......😉

[@reesedaniel5835]

@@lumiere3619 I was a woman in my 30s who coupled up with a very handsome young 23 year old man who didn't have anything. We have been married for 25 years now.

[@BrendaLopez-ki6hl]

As a woman who has dated a dark horse I have to agree. I think men like these are hard working, and honest. They tend to put in more effort in the relationship as well. The man I dated was this way but felt stuck in his job. He planned for higher education but didnt know where to start. I had my College degree so had already gone through the process. I gave him info and helped him build a plan. Working together in this way strengthen our relationship. He finished his degree and attained a better job where he felt happier. We dated for 8 years and it was a lovely relationship. We ended up breaking up but kept the peace and friendship. Looking back it was a rewarding experience.

[@craterous]

Women should not overlook their contribution to THE COUPLE winning the "race" as a team. In other words mature people inspire each other perform better, and want to.

[@devinbrines]

Why'd you guys break up in the end? Just not compatible?

[@BrendaLopez-ki6hl]

@@devinbrines At the time he wanted to move out of California but I wasn't ready since I was in the middle of my 2nd degree. The experience taught me how rewarding it is to invest in your partners growth and how that strengthens the relationship.

[@devinbrines]

@@BrendaLopez-ki6hl In retrospect, do you think it was a good choice for the two of you to go separate ways? Were you just on different paths?

[@devinbrines]

@@BrendaLopez-ki6hl I had a similar relationship in college. A great girl and we got along really well. Ultimately we went different ways in life. She's a doctor now and I make art for a living. In retrospect we got along well on a personal level but just weren't compatible. All's well that ends well. The situation showed me what it is like when two people just like one another and care about one another. It can be pretty transformative.

[@arjunmrao4039]

Your psychacks KZbin channel is also a dark horse, it will have a huge following in the future, mark my words....you are creating wonderful content here .... Arjun

[@psychacks]

Thanks for your support, Arjun. Help spread the word!

[@Darknight526]

Called it buddy.

[@adityaghildiyal6630]

I was chosen as a 'dark horse' by this one beautiful woman. She was 24 and I was 22. I had many academic achievements in my teenage years, she was betting on that. Fast forward one year, I ended up being the lazy mess I am, in turn her love dwindled. She started dating one of her coworkers (she's a teacher) and dumped me a month later. I finished my graduation and am now trying to settle financially. It hurt a lot, but I think my complacency was the reason for it all

[@M4dM4n96]

Same here, man. When I got with my ex we were both broken people. She had great potential, as did I. She grew as a person while I stagnated, eventually I began to spiral even further downward (it reached the climax during lockdown, when I had become so depressed and filled with rage that I destroyed what little love there was left in the relationship,) and she left me for her one of coworkers. There is some delicious irony in here though so bare with me - because of the lockdown, her only escape was work. I had recently left my job (I was assaulted at work) so I was unemployed and stuck inside. She would come home and speak about work, but mostly she would speak about the guys at her work. There had already been previous 'situations' regarding some of the men she worked with, and I have a tendency of letting my mind runaway with me, so I would ask her to not tell me. I didn't want to know. I didn't want to be possessive and obsessive, but the more that time went on (and as I steadily got worse,) she would spend more and more time at work. It eventually became painfully obvious that she would rather be at work than come home to me. I don't really blame her for that, I was.. let's just say that I was not in a good place, but all of those things came together at the worst possible time and just.. Anyways, when she broke up with me I was pretty down already. I was unemployed, had no social life due to the lockdown, then the breakup happened and I had to move back in with my parents. This happened maybe a month before Christmas, so I had my sights set on getting myself back on my feet, getting that money, and trying to make that Christmas at least bearable. I ended up working at an end of life hospice on Christmas Day (quite an experience), and found out shortly afterwards that she had moved on with this guy she worked with. She had mentioned him a few times and suddenly things started to click together in my brain. I then found out that they were already planning on moving in together - this was maybe 2 months after the break up.. The signs were appearing months before it happened. I recognised them. I just refused to do anything about it, I kept putting it down to me being nuts and stuck inside my own head. And the more I doubted myself the more I would be filled with rage, the more rage the more depression, the more depressed I got the more I was sure she was going to leave me. It was a self fulfilling prophecy. (I should also point out that there was a small part of me that knew all of this would happen. That I would spiral out of control and she would leave me. In fact, there was a dark part of me that actually wanted it to happen. I wanted to self destruct. I briefly considered suicide when I realised that, what I had just done to myself and to her, was almost intentional. As you can probably tell, that didn't happen. I got a better job soon afterward, I repaired my relationship with my family, and I began to reconnect with friends as lockdown ended shortly afterward. I am no longer who I was back then, though I know he is in there somewhere, but now I am much more aware of that part of me, and much more aware of the damage that that part of me can cause. There is a large part of me that wants to thank her for all of it Maybe it's just pure copium but it taught me a lot

[@TheNCcope]

Sorry bro, I've had a similar experience. You dodged a bullet whether you believe it or not. You don't want a woman that will leave when the chips are down

[@reesedaniel5835]

@@TheNCcope Being a lazy buffoon and having hard times are two totally different scenarios. I have zero tolerance for lazy people. They end up being hoarders like the disgusting neighbors that moved in next to me..I liken them to a family of human swine.

[@blastermaster7261]

Dodged a bullet my man.

[@Mr.McWatson]

Complacency is probably the number one reason for a breakup. You can't ever think you've "won" an can just coast, women have to be dated forever. Source: my own repeat experience.

[@jonathankelly2655]

Really resent the pervasive "Waiting at the Winners Circle" mentality. I'm high achieving and have my life laid out. It takes time for all these plans to come to fruition. Then eventually you get to the realization of your vision and then women show up? Where were you when I needed support getting here and now you want the fruits of my efforts? Doesn't seem like a fair trade.

[@lightworker2956]

Yeah, I don't like it either. I worked incredibly hard the last ten years, and now I'm finally getting some dating success, but I sure could have used some female support and companionship when I was struggling during my earlier years. It's not fair.

[@roses6564]

Most women don’t compete for winners bc they want don’t want old men. The ones who do, you wouldn’t/shouldn’t want them anyway. Women do compete for future winners and are fantastically good at sniffing them. Ask yourself why no woman has sniffed your future winnings.

[@mts2639]

For some men, having a supportive partner is essential to keep motivated and win the race. Unfortunately, I believe this lack of partnerships and more and more women now window shopping at the finish line have created a lethargic movement in young men.

[@drumsnbass]

I was that dark horse with the unsupportive wife. Had she not been so selfish, we easily could have been worth multiple 8 figure. Instead she burned me out and destroyed us.

[@beccawhite1887]

Love is a gamble regardless.

[@psychacks]

That is true.

[@roses6564]

Thank you.

[@ganganthefatman1382]

As a man it seems my current options are attracting a woman willing to stand by my side as a dark horse; find an ugly duckling with potential of a swan in the future; or a strange integration of both. Your channel is really fucking helpful, my friend.

[@daveware4117]

Lol

[@dipset4016]

helpful or depressing?

[@ichigotheg.o.a.t]

Lol,.

[@ichigotheg.o.a.t]

@dipset4016 helpful, really helpful, tbh, it isndepressing if you let it depress you or take the advice he is giving you no matter how hard it is, take it and taking with stride, my friend, because, the women who are available are because 33% if young guys don't have a woman, and, 66% of young guys in total are not dating, and, the other 33% that are not dating any more blends in with the other 33% that are not dating any more, and, that equals the 66%, the dating is lower and available dive in a take your pick you have a pool of women to pick from buy beware these women are Savage lol, take the women in stride and take them with hope, just have fun with them nothing serious and / or too serious until you're sure about them,.

[@dipset4016]

@@ichigotheg.o.a.t lost me with the stats but totally agree

[@devinbrines]

I took an entrepreneurship class which was my first class on my first day of college. The professor asked, "What's the number one most important attribute of an entrepreneur?" -- The willingness to take risks. You can't get somewhere great unless you take risks. The willingness to take risks implies the willingness to lose. If you're a woman and you want to have a successful life, you have to be comfortable co-existing with a guy who takes risks. You have to have a non-attachment to the outcomes. You have to take risks, yourself -- on him and in life. That is, if you really want to get to the top. Getting to the top isn't about status or about resources -- it's about a love for the game. The most powerful force is love -- in relationships and in life.

[@elainer8288]

Excellent!

[@IfSemper]

A man doesn't need a woman who can appreciate what he's done later after he's crossed " the finish line", anyone can do that, but rather one who believes in him beforehand & seeks to help him however he needs be in getting to where he wants to go *during* the journey. ~April L.

[@rebecca_stone]

That's assuming that the man shows he's trustworthy enough to actually take the journey all the way. Often not the case. It's a two-way street, my friend.

[@devilsadvocacy]

Women only bet on potential/dark horses when she already likes the guy. Otherwise you’re invisible to her until you cross the finish line at/near the front

[@smugforce7859]

Either you're a chad to her or you're not. If you don't get the chad treatment off the bat, cut your losses and move on

[@PaulDouglas-Feddon]

well for any normal person liking the guy would be the first criteria

[@jeffcauhape6880]

My wife and I have been married 41 years. When we married all I had was potential. She has stuck with me through thick and thin, and we are now living a comfortable life in our old age. I like to think I was her 'dark horse.'

[@cosmicprison9819]

The very concept of a finish line / winner’s circle can make guys complacent. There is no finish line. The finish line is but the starting line of the next lap of the race. Those who think they’ve already “won” and start slowing down will end up falling behind eventually.

[@SmolTerribleTornado]

The very idea of people gathering around me to celebrate as if they were the ones who won is what used to discourage me from "winning" the race.

[@lorraine5800]

@@SmolTerribleTornado There is a mix of things at play with that I think. They might be living vicariously through your accomplishments/successes and want to be associated with that, for the consequent esteem they feel it gives them, or they may actually be cheering you on & proud of your growth as a person. Important thing is to discern who’s who. Nothing makes my skin crawl more than people who only want to benefit from your hard work & years of sacrifice but offered very little or nothing in return, only wanting to exploit your labors and expect you to “take care of them”. Unless you’re a parent or healthcare worker, it’s not your primary role/job to take care of others.

[@the777john]

There is no race. You're either sinking or you're swimming.

[@nickc5374]

Find a guy who hasnt won yet but has all the attributes. Then help him win.

[@amandaforrester7636]

The funny thing is, I've tried this. Many women have done this, and the guys traded up once they won the game. The term "starter wife" exists for a reason.

[@heartnsoullife5188]

That’s great advice, I would also add that ladies don’t bet on potential you see in a guy that he doesn’t see himself. If he’s clear about who he is, what he wants and has a reality based plan to achieve it then great. If he has awesome dreams/goals but is looking for the quickest, least-effort way to go about it then forget it, that’s just a dreamer…

[@MelissaMisinco]

Yeah I don’t think he’s talking about a dreamer maybe someone that already has a good degree and just landed a good job. He’s not the head honcho there but on his way.

[@psychacks]

Absolutely. A reality-based plan is key. A goal without a means of attaining it is just a dream.

[@boldyo]

I notice that artists and musicians that just make a decent living usually can get hot women…are these women going for potential, or perhaps they have decided to stick with a job that they love and just pays enough? For the women at the finish line: even if you’re lucky enough to bag the winner, you are going to have to share him with other women.

[@metamodern409]

@@boldyo lol maybe being able to express yourself emotionally/physically through music is just intrinsically hot to women, shocker I know, it doesn’t all reduce to money

[@boldyo]

@@Water_is_Sacred777 Going for image....I'm sure that happens sometimes. I think metamodern 's opinion is valid for some too - "being able to express yourself emotionally/physically through music is just intrinsically hot to women". I think some do see potential as well... especially if the guy is young and talented - It can take a long time to get discovered. As far as serial daters, I think if a man finds himself single at any age and is interested in a LTR, he should date as many women as he can. In order to find a quality woman that is right for you, I think this necessary. I think Orion would agree....let's see if he chimes in. It's kind of like finding a quality job, if you take the first job that comes along it's not likely to be that good, or a good match. Go on 20 interviews, and take the job that best matches what you are looking for, and you'll probably be happy. This takes a lot more work, but so does anything else that is good in life.

[@maipham4766]

Amazing channel and very helpful. I did a two year no dating time and wrote down all qualities and traits that is important to me and how i want to be loved. It's crazy that shortly after that time i found him.

[@psychacks]

Enumerating the traits of your ideal partner is extremely important to do. If you don't know what you're looking for, you won't be able to see it if it's staring you in the face. If you haven't done so already, you may want to check out my episode "How to get what you want in life."

[@smallypuppy22]

This seems great, will do the same

[@bluebutterfly5062]

The key thing here is "having the attributes of a winner" I've dated a man who i believed was a genuinely good person, and poored into him for years, only for him to ultimately be unmotivated and refused to put in the work to better himself. You can bring your dark horse to water...

[@rebecca_stone]

Love this comment!! "You can bring a dark horse to water..." - 100% agree.

[@user-uw3fi2zg4t]

I am a man in my late 30's never centered my life around having a relationship (for the most part) and as I look into it now it sounds pretty shallow and decieving place to be in case you are looking for a partner. I might keep doing my thing and accept whatever comes along the way

[@mid0rina]

Having a strategy like this is probably smarter but it really is unromantic isn’t it? That being said, I’ve always liked the idea of dating potential (although it’s considered idealistic and risky) Growing together, supporting each other and building something together. Imagine how deep your bond would be with that person as opposed to meeting someone at the peak of their success.

[@hyronharrison8127]

As it should be...both sides should be growing together win or lose

[@BloodySeranade]

if you ever find someone, dont tell him what you just typed.

[@mid0rina]

@@BloodySeranade Haha, noted

[@lightworker2956]

Yeah, as a guy, the idea of growing together with a woman sounds amazing.

[@WordSmithAtPlay]

Not unromantic at all. Find a man whose vision for life you can believe in with him. Quite inspiring, really! My marriage of 32 years proves it can work.

[@rubikashree3519]

I wasnt able to tell the reason why I loved this boy... Now I do.. its fascinating how I could subconsciously spot attributes of a dark horse, but wasnt able to communicate these reasons to my friends clearly

[@MuantanamoMobile]

Women often give each other very bad advice about men especially young women. Ask the quality men in your life like an Uncle, Cousin etc if not your dad who aren't trying to get something from you, don't ask the guys you "friend zoned".

[@rubikashree3519]

@@MuantanamoMobile damn...i should stop asking my male friends...my uncles and father will ask me to stop this dating bs and build some career lol

[@rubikashree3519]

@@MuantanamoMobile sure thats a really helpful advice thanks

[@MuantanamoMobile]

@@rubikashree3519 It depends, you can have true male friends. But usually it's not the guys who you *turned down*, many of them just want to sleep with you but pretend. If they aren't honest about their feeling to you...then their advice about a potential rival for them might be tainted, even if just subconsciously. Nevertheless, if...they are actually really...good people who love you no matter what...then you can get good advice. Older guys could also have better advice, but that's why I suggested cousins etc, since there is almost no risk of wanting to f' you or manipulate you into a relationship with them. That being said, most men...especially if they care for you even a little wouldn't want you to be hurt. For instance many won't give you malicious advice that could end up hurting you like how girl friends might, because they are jealous and secretly want you to fail so they can feel good about themselves. For your Uncles, cousins etc, if they have good judgment they can usually tell you if a guy is a pretending scumbag. About the guy friends, always be very clear and honest with them, as well as considerate. Don't play with their feelings to feel validation, respect yourself (no OF, semi-nude insta photos etc) and they will respect you in return. If they respect you they will almost always have your back no matter what.

[@ummxluqman]

The fear women have with this is that she will invest so much of herself in a man’s “humble beginnings” to see him succeed, then once he does become a top winner, he will have far more younger, fresher options to chose from, so he then leaves her for someone else. It’s the common trope of a wife supporting her husband’s dreams for a whole decade, then once he makes it as a big CEO, he gets caught having an affair with the young attractive secretary, and the wife is left severely heartbroken after all those years of loyalty she gave him and investing her “prime” years into him while he wasn’t at his own prime yet. The fear is she will leave her prime as he enters into it, and he will selfishly disregard her.

[@Straga_Severa]

And that's why they try to become this "secretary" instead of supporting the man and giving him the reasons NOT to leave her.

[@jolteon43]

You talk like there aren't a boat load of laws to prevent that. Moreover, going for an already made man it's not a better strategy. Think about it: the guy wanted to grow with someone his age in his 20's but no one wanted to bet on him. He made friends with loneliness and developed himself during a decade or two. Why would he be exclusive to you only after he built everything by himself? Because you are pretty? You best be prepared to share him temporarily. Women have the ability to break the cycle by getting with an average man TODAY while both are young. Instead they only perpetuate it because of delusions of grandeur, inability to think long term and flat out laziness. Everyone gets exactly what they deserve in the end. It's arrogant to think you should reap what you didn't sow.

[@tam_to_evolve]

Yup!! The guy who made this video clearly overlooked this! So many women blood sweat and tears to support the “becoming” only to be left behind once he’s successful… f*ck that

[@Straga_Severa]

@@tam_to_evolve That's why they prefer to be the ones that those immoral successful guys leave their wives for, right? Picking a guy with morals seems too hard ;-)

[@lorraine5800]

@@tam_to_evolve Right, or in my case, left behind after 5 years even before he reached any success bc he saw me as a deterrent rather than an asset. Nevermind I did EVERYTHING to help & support his aspirations. The excuse from him was he wasn’t successful yet & couldn’t be with me 110%, as if I ever asked for that much. Ha! Delusion exists on both sides & it creates so many casualties. I owe no one loyalty after how he treated me, they get to earn it. Because now I’ve spent nearly a decade building my future all by myself.

[@ggr68]

I'd also like to mention the impact of the woman who chooses her "dark horse". It's often her support and faith in his success that helps him realize his true potential.

[@xxxxxxxx8903]

Great advice! Can confirm that the men who lots of other women were attracted to never showed any interest in me, but I found my dark horse and will hopefully live happily ever after. Certainly think I fit the description of an ugly duckling.

[@Marcus_009]

All valid points mentioned in the video but the obvious exclusion you make is the impact of physical attractiveness in men. Have all the status & money that you want if your objectivity ugly its going to be harder to find a women that has genuine desire for you not based on possible fluctuating external factors I.e money, job position

[@jimmieblue6262]

Excellent advice and it will work. Men choose women wisely. The wallflower women are the best never go for looks.

[@collin9085]

This is good advice. However, women often want to "have their fun" when they are young and don't look for marriage material until they are "ready to settle down." They know the hot guys they get with when they are 23 are going to be unsuccessful. I was told by two women that I'm the kind of guy they would like to marry, not date. They both ended up reaching out to me years later. That made me chuckle. My point is: I think women are fairly conscious of the "dark horse" strategy. The real advice for them is to be serious about dating earlier.

[@lightworker2956]

Yeah, but it just doesn't work to tell women "don't spend your 20s sleeping with hot losers, instead marry a maybe-not-super-hot but emotionally mature, high-quality guy in your 20s." Most women simply don't want to hear it.

[@smugforce7859]

You mean date Chads earlier so they can date serious earlier

[@Quwoosh]

Orion, this video for women is greatly appreciated!~... I hope you will continue to make these kinds of videos despite having a predominantly male audience. In my "sphere of youtube", there isn't much for getting the equivalent for women. The dark horse strategy has changed my perspective immensely!

[@th4fl4sh4]

If only most women could think and decide rationally like you described in your video. That would be something.

[@yoohoo952]

we can, but it works until irrational crush or interest appears and it ruins everything

[@timb4248]

They can't, women are bombarded by too many choices. It's like choosing what to watch when bored on Netflix, you just choose whatever pops up that catches your attention.

[@MarokoJin]

If I might add something to the attributes of a winner: he's also actively working towards achieving his goal... there are many guys (and women) out there who do have amazing potential but they're not doing the work for different reasons and they usually need a therapy for whatever unsolved matters they have but are in a state of apathy, so they're basically empty "barils", good enough to store good wine within but the vinyard work isn't done...

[@psychacks]

I would agree. The dark horse has a reality-based plan and is actively involved in bringing it to fruition.

[@ellahansing7175]

Yup. Best strategy for women by far. I met my husband in college. Back then, history major with a dream to go to law school. That was it. No car no job, tall nerd. Living off student loans. I had to drive us on our dates.😂 now, 13 years married, he is very successful and a good catch, but the college gurls back then wouldn't have been interested. Listen to what their dreams are and place your bet.

[@ironfro5683]

We were fed this crap when i was in high school. The problem is men tend to leave women who have seen them poor and struggling. When they finally succeed, they go for the young hot thing who doesnt really know his struggling days

[@mizzwitty1042]

I think on the one side you are right although it seems to be very complicate on the other side it is not for granted that a dark horse stays with you once he is a winner... to much gambling for me. And yes, I know all things change over time. I found a solution: Figure out who you really are and who you want to be. Love yourself just because you are worth it. Set boundaries and protect them. Love unconditionally - if you are "needing" a partner/other people for praise, love, admiration eg. you are always addicted to them - not nice. Do not expect (too much) from other people, otherwise you often get diappointed. The less you expect the more often you will be surprised in a positive way.. Does it work? For me perfectly!❤

[@sonias9722]

I'm sure this works sometimes, but it is a gamble. A man who goes from loser to winner is not likely to stay with the woman who he was with when he was losing. When he gets new options he will want to explore them, and the woman ends up losing because she has put her time and resources on a guy who didn't provide anything at the time. I think it's better for a woman to raise her own value to get a winner who is already there, and also try to better her financial situtation for safety in the meanwhile.

[@psychacks]

Yes -- it is a gamble. However, as I mention, it's also a gamble to compete with the other women trying to catch the attention of the man in the winner's circle. If a woman backs a dark horse, and he eventually becomes successful, he will have access to new (and, potentially, even better) options. But the woman will be in a better position to navigate that challenge from within a pre-existing relationship with him than she would if she were simply one of the many options made available to him. Thanks for watching.

[@natureloverbangladesh]

It is complicated! My Gf did not give her body when i am in most need from her 20-27..when asked for sex without marriage she said she wanted a good life from me not these .. All her 20s is gone now in this drama evading the sex..may be for religios belief..but I guess genuine desire can break religion.. I was not asking or searching for a kidney of her..Just the genuine desire and empathy to my journey to success....And finally when asked openly for it she left after so much depth of realation... I had a lesson that she was not genuinely attracted to me.. She had a lesson That I wanted her for sex only and i was like the creepy Headmaster in her school.. We nobody are naive anymore...Lets men be more successful and women preserve beauty and virginity loyalty-- that is the solution I guess.

[@melodypaz7247]

@@natureloverbangladesh Female virgins are the creame de la cream. You wanted to pay bargain basement prices for the Royal jewels. What an insult! No wonder she gave up on a fellow who would rather embrace his fears of some bad outcome that could happen instead of embracing her as his life partner. You proved you weren't worthy of her. Marriage is a calculated risk. You lost because you failed repeatedly to honor her worth and because you did not act with courage. If you want a better life make better decisions.

[@paulcolin9071]

Same vice versa

[@edwardyoutube]

And what Dr. Orion describes here is a win-win situation. A man who becomes successful while already being in a LT relationship is more likely to respect and hold the partner highly. By contrast, an already successful man who picks an orbiter woman, in the overwhelming majority of cases, will look at her like another trophy of success, and will know that the relationship is dependent on his own success. He will hold lower respect for such woman (or none at all).

[@danf4447]

the other problem, speaking as someone with business owners and MDs and JDs as friends... you literally marry the lifestyle as you will not see much of them. after 12 hour days 6DPW for sometimes decades..the last thing they want to do is socialize and adventure. A quiet night at home or a movie or a day at the golf course is about all they have time or energy for ....so there is that.

[@idlehourlinda6476]

This is excellent advice. There are so many traits we look for in evaluating whether or not someone is a keeper; top of my list be it lover or friend is good character. That's my non negotiable.

[@applesnicolle5144]

What’s character?? Is he spiritual? Moral?

[@psychacks]

If you don't know what you're looking for, you won't be able to recognize it if it's staring you in the face. Enumerating your relationship criteria is essential.

[@applesnicolle5144]

@@psychacks / Exactly! Too many ppl just aimlessly enter into alliances with no thought of criteria… also I’m vehemently against online social media hookups. Bad news - it’s a failed experiment. People need to meet in real world connected to their principals. I met my late husband at church… And No way would I date a political leftist - No snowflakes!

[@paulcolin9071]

Same

[@maylin1986]

​@@psychacks Just curious, do you have a step-by-step strategy of utmost important criteria to consider even starting this approach to enumerating your own personal dating criteria? Please & thank you. ✨️👍

[@2007beet]

Time to Dark Horsify myself then. Thanks doc!

[@psychacks]

Make a plan and work until you achieve your goals. Repeat.

[@curlyflipper2020]

lmao ! Women say one thing and always goes back to abusive basic guys with no brains

[@philosophyjunkies6693]

Just discovered your channel 20 minutes ago. Have watched 8 videos already

[@paulajones5424]

This seems like outstanding advise for young women. What about when you’re mid 40’s though. Not that achievements stop in mid life but seems harder to find a dark horse at this point.

[@rebecca_stone]

To the guys on here complaining that they'd "rather a woman who was with me before I won the race". Please be kind. As a woman I sense we're wired to see others' potential, perhaps this is a maternal instinct - to our own detriment. I've lost years - decades - backing the wrong horses, and I'm not alone. I definitely wasn't hanging around opportunistically in the 'winners' circle', didn't have these demands that so many guys claim women have. Be aware that many women get trapped in partnerships with men who never move beyond their potential, and we've been wounded bad as a result.

[@1111Tactical]

Also if a woman is there as a good partner to support a man who's "in the race", for presence will increase his odds for winning. A good woman is an excellent muse for a man to become successful

[@djl8509]

Thanks for confirming that my tendency to go for the reasonably attractive (physically) fellow with the decent (as opposed to high-paying) job is just fine. Throughout my life, I was seldom the kind to set my sights on the most popular guy, anyway.

[@ronmexico5908]

Everything is a competition. The more you need from someone else the less you're going to get. This is a strategy for sadness and disappointment and seems to be women's goal in life

[@reesedaniel5835]

This stuff was not an issue 40-50 years ago. The gene pool was still mostly pure back then so one could find a good mate based solely or mostly on physical attraction and blood type (they did blood tests back then for compatibility). Nowadays we are infested with narcissists (the bad blood type) and other nationalities/cultures and the gene pool is corrupted.

[@KorisnickoIme84]

@@reesedaniel5835 Could you care to explain: How did people back then pick their partners based on their blood type? They did blood tests to check for compitabillity? Narcissists have a bad blood type?

[@davebellamy4867]

​@@reesedaniel5835 I think you should take that 50 years ago point as the start of the major feminism trend and not connect it with immigration. Don't you find women from other races attracrive? Genetic diversity is a good thing in the animal kingdom. Better than being inbred (look at the royal families).🙄 I find that the women brought up in foreign cultures here in my western country are often way better as potential partners than the natives. Unless they have been westernised, in which case they can be the worst.

[@davebellamy4867]

In the nightclub at a UK seaside resort back in 1994 my slightly inebriated behavioural geneticist pal was telling us about how he was looking for his "genetic echo." Someone who was not genetically not the same and might be quite different - but complementary. Great concept. He never pulled any bird that night.😂

[@immortaljanus]

Looking back to my past relationships, I realize that I've always been the alternative guy, the guy that doesn't have it yet but might make it. In the end, they all went for the sure but boring guy. Ah, ladies, I see some awkward encounters in the future.

[@lightworker2956]

I think the average woman has two modes. Either she goes for the hottest and most exciting guy she can find (typically in her 20s), or she wants a stable financially well-off guy (typically in her 30s, when she realizes she wants kids, and that means that she needs a stable guy right now). While I think this video's idea of "choose the dark horse" is smart, it's not the mode that most women operate on. (And also, if I were a woman, "might make it" wouldn't be good enough for me -- I'd look for the guy who "would probably make it.")

[@ArmyWolves]

another thing I have seen on manosphere stories thtmat get shared on failed marriages that your comment about some girls going for the 'boring but sure guy' is if they assess that the guy is under her spell then she can control the relationship, finances and have the option of having fun with Chad without the risk of the husband leaving hsr because she has determinsd he has no backbone or that her spell on him is too strong.

[@donkeysaurusrex7881]

As a sure but boring guy, I would be greatful if you told me where these women are.

[@RamGopalB-gu8pf]

Something That is missing here is that girls need to find a dark horse with "Integrity and values". If not, there is a risk of him leaving his day-1 woman when he finds something that looks better.

[@KomalSingh-cm8gc]

"Detailed and reality based plan for future".damn

[@lsporter88]

You're absolutely right about this. However this advice is for the intelligent and emotionally developed Woman. She would have to be even hear what you're saying. Great video.

[@Mary-t2p6p]

When a man and woman support each other in their paths to success it’s very freeing. You will individually as a couple figure out what that means, It has to be something that is specific to them. It’s like instead of flowers once in awhile you give gifts to each other in the form of wonderful daily nurturing acts of support . It can be as simple as hot soup and a sandwich when he worked really late, taking out the garbage early am so she can sleep in a few. You figure out between the two of you and it keeps things fresh.

[@xandermidov]

Sorry for bad english. There is a russian film: "Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears". One of the woman tells to one of the main character of the film, if you want to be a wife of a general, you should marry to a leutenant, and walk with him through barracs, sands, and forests for twenty years. The main character said she beilives in luck, not in rules.

[@popps33]

Great video. On the same token, for the dark horses, gauge women to make sure they are ready for your concrete plans for the future. You don’t wanna attract the wrong people.

[@wholesometalks_]

Bravo! Thank you for the simplicity while explaining brilliant thoughts! Valuable insights here as always!!

[@marypatriciadomhan3853]

This is the strategy called choosing someone based on their “potential”. This can be a very slippery slope, especially when dealing with creative types. Once they “make it” and obtain a certain amount of recognition, fame, money, their options expand and most likely they will move on to those perceived greener pastures.

[@romancandlefight1144]

At which point you tap the sign that says "half"

[@romancandlefight1144]

Or you could, you know, make yourself more likeable. 99% of women don't know how to and never try to be likeable to their partner

[@devinbrines]

Not necessarily. Emotional attachment is a really strong force

[@RonaldinhoPopper]

As he said in the video, it's just as (if not more) risky than competing with 10+ other women for the established man.

[@dvkdvkful]

That's only a problem for dumb women who think "potential" means "future NBA star or movie star or music star earning millions". A woman with IQ above room temperature, can instead think "potential means he will hold a steady job turning into career that will take him in several years from 5 figure to 6 figure salary, which isn't multimillionair star but also has FAR FAR more chances to actually realize - say 0.001% vs 33-50%". Lot less exciting, I admit. Modern women living life on easy mode don't find that interesting, THEN complain about "where are all the good men at?". Well sister, they got picked up early in life by women who didn't strive for "exciting" or "1 in 1000 chance of stardom".

[@sa.sa3917]

I think the most successful couple is Dark Horse and Ugly Duckling. This channel is a gem. It opened my mind.

[@up2Us-qb8iy]

Valid insight. Gives a plausible reason for why around 80% of divorces are initiated by women in the USA. Limbic rules for both men and women no matter the cognitive programming, whether new or old.

[@vladimirandreevich]

There's an old Russian saying: "If you want to be a general's wife, you have to marry a leutenant"

[@Gmmmgm]

On the other hand, a very common scenario is that the guy gets successful and rich, together with the woman at his side, an achievement of 10 or 15 years, then, he dumps her. This is very common. And success is destabilizing for relationships as another video on this channel talks about. I think this applies to men who want to forget where they came from and the woman reminds them of their past.

[@karenoyama8950]

For me a man with a good sense of humor is critical. I recently met a man who had many of the desired qualities. He is tall, attractive, affectionate and highly intelligent. However, one of his most attractive features is his sense of humor! He is so much fun to be with.

[@roses6564]

Whether still married or not, most women been there, done that. Whether women want “winners” (the materialists) or simply a man internally compatible with them (the intelligent spiritualists), and they go with the “dark horse” strategy, it is virtually inevitable that the man will start complaining at some point that she wants to “change him” and will push back if the internal compatibility is not there to begin with. Whether women hang out at the “winner circle” or adopt the dark horse” strategy (most women still do the latter), odds to end up with a winner are still the same odds, bc there will only be so many winners. In reality, most women hang out at the “future winners” circle bc they want men roughly their age, not 25 years older when male success finally hits. This is basically the dark horse strategy, but even there the competition is high in youth bc women can easily sniff future winners. But all women have not been created equal, therefore not all want a standard “winner” and nothing else. The more intelligent ones want “their” man - the one she experiences internal connection with. They want to be in love and experience that mind-soul compatibility. Interestingly, some of these are married to boring winners (wasn’t Karenin one?), but later meet a man who may be less marketable than the one they’re married to, but they fall for him bc they connect intellectually and emotionally, whether with the “winner,” she never did. For higher accuracy and better specificity, this channel should introduce the caste/“walk of life” element for both men and women in the analysis (not mere class/money, which is much less relevant here than people think). It is not as simple as winners and losers, or HV women and LV women. Value for whom? A HV person for some could be literally someone else’s LV, if not trash. To talk about generic HV and LV is to assume everyone defines value the same way. Wrong.

[@crimson6172]

I think women needs to understand that: LOVE = RISK NO RISK = NO LOVE Waiting at the winner's circle is like buying a share when the share price has already gone up through the roof. You will need a lot more money to be able to afford it. It's too late. And let me also add that men at the winner's circle will far less likely want to commit to a woman that he meets there. And why would he? The woman wasn't there during all his struggles and during the low points of his life.

[@JoanJacoutot-nr8wr]

Thank you for this advice, Orion! I have written this before in a couple past comments...I would be extremely interested in watching a video of you and Teal Swan discuss gender! Big fan of you both! You both are highly intelligent and have big personalities. The meeting of minds would be fascinating and most likely funny too. Orion and Teal together would be a big win!!!

[@KAMELODYHEART6954]

I always wanted a Light Horse and I am very certain now that my wants and needs will never change🤣

[@friendlyanomaly6109]

What's a light horse?

[@charifield]

Man... This one hits home. My wife fell in love with me before I had anything! I was just a foreign college student with nothing but a couple of bags and classes to take! Now, 10 years later, married, with a daughter, 5 bedroom house, 3 other houses, living very comfortably, and was there from the beginning! My wife deserves it all!

[@darkhorse7424]

I am the Dark Horse by being born into this “Thought Hierarchy”. I can say; I did not wait until the Women came before I started my journey. I was well along the journey and she seen my path and had the awareness to hitch the ride when we was young. It is the investment of her youth, time and resources she expects to see a return on is what bonds her to you for life.

[@zutinic]

Excellent video and great advice for women! Unfortunatelly, only 70K views?! This video should hit 10M views!

[@___peremo]

Unknowning to us ladies sometimes the dark horse might be using us as ‘PLACE HOLDERS’ You only know a man’s true loyalty after he’s gotten money and a lil power 😄 Stood by him for 8years .. immediately he had financial stability chaos stepped in everything became a problem.. I was constantly in survival mode.. So I finally walk away At this point I don’t mind waiting at the finish line..cause the pain Has pushed me to -learn more about men. -understand the sexual market place better.. -an move different May the best woman win..🎉

[@donkeysaurusrex7881]

Ah you walked away joining the 70-80% of divorces initiated by women, but someone that’s him leaving you.

[@___peremo]

Lol.. we weren’t married At the very point I felt things were starting to fall in place for us.. He clearly informed me that I wasn’t on his level and he had more options now to explore 😂

[@mosesazu7547]

​@@___peremoI empathise with you.

[@BSingh-on4qr]

Facts, and women who see this and are willing to bet on potential, and help you achieve it, are much more attractive because it correlates to being less impulsive and short term. Same can be said about men

[@Elethia441]

The reverse is also true for men. They also all hang out arount the top quality women - but why would they choose them?

[@thaliakate444]

I agree. A journey with a dark horse is far more interesting. 🐎

[@GFD_VIDEOS]

this video exudes a profound ethos, inviting women to embark upon a journey of self-discovery and embrace the enigmatic allure of their latent potentials. It advocates for the exploration of uncharted territories within oneself, transcending conventional paradigms to unveil the hidden depths and complexities that define individuality. In essence, it champions the cultivation of resilience, fortitude, and audacity, propelling women to emerge as formidable forces, harnessing the transformative power of their 'dark horse' essence.

[@33Jenesis]

I am retired. At my age I am not looking for a dark horse. If a guy my age is still looking for his niche, he’s not a late bloomer lol. I am sitting on a rocking chair to enjoy my own time and leisure. I am not going to fund some guy’s dream of making bank doing some scheming or his retirement. He’d better be done with career ambition and retirement building.

[@emmar1970]

While this sounds good, it is also dating for their 'potential. I have done this more than once and it failed every time unfortunately. I have been better off asking myself if the current version of this person would be enough for me to build a future with. The answer is usually no, but I understand where you're coming from. Some guys will talk a big game in the beginning to woo us, then get very lazy and complacement once there's a commitment.

[@Eans_urban_jungle]

I've disappointed soooo many women because I know how to come across "like I'll be winning next year"

[@psychacks]

If you can't be it, it can be useful to seem it. And, of course, we should also develop our discernment to be able to tell the difference between being and seeming.

[@agat86]

I dated and married a guy with potential but he ended up screwing me up and cheating on me. Just my experiance. Being out of his league doesnt guarantee a successful relationship.

[@viniciusserafimdias2961]

There's no guarantee in life.

[@patriziapiccardo2428]

What about connection? This is a very mercantilistic way of looking at relationships. The last man fell in love with had never worked a day in his life. Had a small allowance from his grandmother and so was not rich. But.... He was an Oxford graduate with always interesting conversation, he was a brilliant musician and super sexy with 2 gorgeous blue eyes. He was funny, self-deprecating and aways a gentleman. "Success" as you describe it, didn't come into it.

[@psychacks]

This video is more about mate selection than attraction ("falling in love"). And it's important to distinguish between the two, as they typically have different sets of satisfaction criteria. It may also be useful to point out that all the attributes you listed (while certainly positive) don't necessarily have to do with connection. For instance, it's possible that another brilliant, sexy, funny musician wouldn't have made you feel the same way. It also sounds like you're no longer in a relationship with this person. If this is true, there are a host of reasons why this could be the case; however, it's important to note that what attracts isn't necessarily what sustains.

[@patriziapiccardo2428]

@@psychacks that's DEFINITELY true!

[@srikrishnavasanth3895]

ANOTHER BENEFIT: If you are with him in his struggle the chances of with him when he won is very high.

[@doloresaquines1529]

I never "competed" and fail to see the point. But then online never has been nor would It ever my thing! Nothing good on OLD. So, I am married. To my own surprise I met him through a couple Who were Friends with him. Amazing. And here we are. And yes he is a winner, on all fronts.

[@thomasstanhouse6224]

This is a logical approach that would mean more people in society are happier. But on an individual level, if a man that seems like a better option provides what seems like a better opportunity, I don't see how the woman doesn't switch sides even with a risk that the new guy leaves her eventually (especially since there's no guarantee that the man she's with now won't leave when he glows up too). It's only logical to switch, especially if women fall in love with that man in that way. This is the pattern that is happening with increasing occurrence as we move into the information and technology age. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you'd need a way for a woman to not feel like a fool in those situations.

[@Hot.sausee]

As a man who has spent the majority of his life with his eyes on the finish line, the relationship will be different if I have to wait until I finish the race to find her. Rather than if she is there to run the last leg of it with me… I don’t want it to be this way but if I finish by myself, the victory will be mine and she will be the prize instead of us both winning the race together. :(

[@sarahra7326]

I like that you specify "run the last leg of it with me" because it bridges the advice in this video and the advice of "don't marry potential." Some (or a lot of) potential should already be achieved in order for a woman to have faith for the future. Just having a detailed plan, as vaguely mentioned in this video, is not enough, it's too risky. The guy should have evidence that he has already followed through with a good portion of his plan.

[@gdargdar91]

In reality, here are criteria today's women filter men by: #1: Is he tall #2: Does he look hot #3: Is he powerful/rich/popular/famous

[@kentuckyjohn8969]

I'm thinking it's the one who proverbially cheers the dark horse on, that the horse runs hardest for...

[@daetros1626]

I wonder how much happiness is actually had even by those selected by the men in the winner's circle. That particular kind of success seems to favor certain personality types and traits that may not be as desirable as the dollar signs and clout may indicate. I'm over the hill and broke, so I may be searching for confirmation to validate myself, but I also have been fortunate in romance so I'm not exactly teeming with bitterness either. I personally find highly driven and successful people to be exhausting, self focused, and not only emotionally unavailable but also emotionally uninteresting. I'd love to have financial plenty too, but there is nothing compelling enough to entice me to entwine myself with a soul driven by that notion of success. It takes all kinds, I suppose!

[@smugforce7859]

If you're over the hill and broke, your best bet is to workout and eat healthy. And then target the best looking socially awkward simp to fall for your gaslighting.

[@thepointlesswords290]

I am dating a guy who is not successful yet. The reason why i am dating is because he is warm, practical, and striving to be successful in life. But we have a chance of breaking up because women marry so early in our culture. So i am not sure my parents will allow me to wait for him.

[@mbg9650]

I have two comments: (1) guess who think is the "prize" in the relationship and (2) women don't like to stuggle by betting on a dark horse, i.e. they don't build, they move in.

[@manugrend]

Fantastic content! Keep up the good work! 👍

[@misterx3188]

Women don't care about your struggles. They wait at the finish line.

[@NikuaRanger]

Hell yeah, I understand man should get value and then meet women. Years ago I didn't have that knowledge but I was just fortunate enough to meet my girlfriend and start a wonderfull relationship with her when I was at my lowest 9 years ago. Since then, everything I do is for her and I will never cheat or let her down, hoes can gtfo I spit in your face. This girl saved my life and it's my turn to do everything for her until my last breath. I'm asking her for marriage next month

[@lmb4876]

Met a man who was a dark horse..in college/about to attend medical school ( no money only school loans)..married him in medical school and 20 years later, he divorces me for the 24 yr old nurse..hmmmm..Oh well, I am better off now but that was quite a blow ( he was not so nice during the marriage ( big ego), so I am better off now…it just felt awful at the time.

[@devinbrines]

The better advice for women would be to be less pragmatic (choosing between the two strategies presented) -- and instead focus on who a guy is on the inside, as a person, and love that person. Great guys want a girl not with a great, pragmatic (dark horse) strategy, but someone who has a phenomenal heart, and is a phenomenal person. You can't fake your way to the top. You have to be that person.

[@devinbrines]

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

[@muhammadahsenkhan832]

This is a pretty good video. Not bad, doc.

[@GregsWorkshopOregon]

Good strategy, but you forgot to mention something. If she picks a dark horse she needs to be prepared to support him on his journey to success, or at the very least stay out of his way. A demanding woman can slow a man down in his success.

[@Jeremy-ql1or]

Finding the 1 guy out of 100 that is going to win seems as likely as being the 1 out of 100 girls the winner picks.

[@dvkdvkful]

Not really; plenty of men win. Problem for women is, by the time they win, many of them are either already taken (by said dark horse strategy), OR they don't even want marriage, OR, the remaining few who are both single and want to marry, mostly want younger women - NOT the close-to-the-wall 35 year olds who finally deigned to get off the "dating assholes and having career" ladders. In other words, there are a lot more men who will be "winners" (unless you have artificially high triple-6 standards); compare to "men who are already winners AND available as husbands at finish line AND interested in those 35 year olds Orion mentions).

[@DivineLogos]

Great advice, average women should indeed find a guy thats going in the right direction instead of finding one that is already a winner.

[@joncarbone]

A wise man once said, 'women don't care about your struggles. They hang out at the finish line, picking the winners.'

[@izzyash2031]

Dude watch Rocky get and Adrian.

[@edwardbrito4010]

⁠@@izzyash2031it’s a movie & that’s the 70s… unfortunately not my experience it’s ok. It’s like a company founders get 50%, investors 10%, IPO .001% & established big company .00000000000000001% that’s my equity break down many give 50-50

[@uyoebyik]

I'm not competing at all

[@Danaclerici]

Love the topic ! 💗💗

[@adrianbunea2006]

Ok but let's see how a woman might see this: if I pick the winner, it is in my control whether I succeed in keeping him. If I pick the dark horse, it is in his control whether he succeeds and becomes what I'm hoping for. How many people are willing to trust in someone else enough to put their hopes in their hands? Also, I don't think you mentioned looks, and that is a big factor for women as well.

[@bluebutterfly5062]

Thanks for exploring this perspective. Women have issues with trusting men because they essentially have to put everything on him. He has all the control, and if he fails, that's it, I'm screwed

[@adrianbunea2006]

@@bluebutterfly5062 just putting myself in their shoes, though from what I've seen, women don't put a lot of thought into their selection, they immediately fall for a pretty face, height, muscles, or some "rizz" and then come back crying. I'd show more compassion if I didn't deal with plenty of this.

[@Elie-w4k]

Yea for sure and that's how cursed women of this generation are and to find such kind of a woman who knows what she wants is not a simple thing .

[@GrandSupremeDaddyo]

Women watching this: "Butterflies tho"