Lost at Sea Sailing Couple From YouTube Dies in Life Raft - Ep 308 - Lady K Sailing

[@DementatDeus]

I work in R&D developing the battery packs for cars. These are absolutely not a safe product for a DIY boat build. They are so dangerous outside the protection of the car frame that we are strictly prohibited from shipping them in airplanes, have to meet a litany of special conditions to ship them in a cargo vessel, and even when shipped by truck are not allowed to ship charged above 30% or if they are damaged in ANY way. When we do have a damaged one or any needing disposed of, we discharge them in salt water, specifically 1% salinity salt water. It has to be that specific salinity because less than that can cause them to not actually fully discharge and if salinity is as high as 2% it can cause them to discharge so fast they explode. Seawater is 3.5% salinity and as little as half a liter absolutely can make a bad enough short to cause a few cells in the pack to explode. When one cell explodes it can cause the cell next to it to explode too, this is called propagation. In a car there are systems to prevent runaway propagation. Removed from a car, most of those systems are taken away. To top it off, this is a metal fire (class D) and will continue to burn hot enough to burn, yes burn not melt, fiberglass, and I've seen it melt aluminum even while submerged. I feel sorry for these folk losing their lives, but having one of these car battery packs in a boat around sea water is just showing how little they knew what they were doing. These automotive batteries are high energy systems that turn into literal bombs if put in the wrong conditions. They are not something to DIY. If you are considering going electric, do not copy their setup, it is not safe. Use lithium-iron-phosphate batteries like all the professional electric boat setups. Lithium-iron-phosphate is chosen because it is reasonably safe and stable around seawater. Do not DIY from any other lithium battery type.

[@Lilrom2003]

@@DementatDeus recent flooding in Florida caused so many EV s to become dangerous.

[@caribbeanbound8357]

spot on. I used to design automotive battery packs over a decade ago. We sent one to GM and they bypassed all of our built in safety systems causing an explosion. No one dies and I cant remember if there were any injuries but it made local news in Detroit.

[@robertlee8042]

Thank you for a perfect informative post. It is obviously you know what you’re talking about. I think most of the people who follow channels like this are pretty mechanical and probably understand basic wiring and electrical issues but if they are like me they were wondering why the hell not? Why couldn’t you just take a battery pack out of a car and stick it in a boat? And that’s because we know nothing about lithium ion batteries. Really, nothing. We couldn’t even write the reaction. And I took organic chemistry. I have a tracker on my motorcycle and it won’t function properly with lead based batteries. It needs the extra voltage that you get out of a lithium reaction.

[@obdachlosen-hilfe]

❤❤❤

[@RichardSMaloney]

I have to agree tinkering with these car battery packs is asking for trouble on a epic scale...now if its a house or trailer fine you get out and far away you can survive...but on a boat at sea in the middle of no where you are just asking for trouble. This whole going green and zero carbon foot print is so absurd i can see having solar panels for charging for your electronics but a total battery powered engine is not realistic. I have been looking into having a electric outboard motor with a portable desal generator which can be removed for easy servicing and repair and some lead acid battery's for storage. if your stuck in where you need emergency power then run the electric engine and if you need additional long term then the diesel generator to keep the electric engine going. may sound complex but gives you two sources of power electric and the diesel generator. but thats just my opinion.

[@stewthebassman]

Tim you did good work describing their life from their meeting point to their demise. I already knew the full story, but you told it in such a kind, empathetic and sensitive way that I didn't mind hearing it all over. Good installment, thanks for the great storytelling.

[@jimgrove5358]

I am one of those couch sailors, dreaming of the ocean but will probably never happen. I think we can all say, although sad we do appreciate this type of content from time to time. It’s real easy to watch just the polished beautiful side to sailing and forget about the risks that are associated with the sport.

[@OrdinaryBloke66]

Me also Jim lol its good to dream 🛥

[@ChuckCassadyYT]

I am an experienced off grid solar system designer and installer. I once built a battery pack from a leaf, installed what I thought was a redunant and safe BMS on it, until one day it discharged too low, failed to shutoff, and the battery packs swelled up and ruptured. I abandoned the project and replaced it with server rack style batteries. This was 5 years ago. Never again will I mess with such a configuration. Sure it can be done, but it takes far more engineering and development than most any average person can pull off and with the price of LiFePO4 dropping every day, there is no excuse not too. Its too dangerous to save a few bucks. Tragedy.

[@LadyKSailing]

WHOA!

[@TheCornucopiaProject-bd5jk]

It’s always fascinating how we go from very heavy lead acid batteries to the lightest most flammable batteries all in the name of saving weight.

[@akamogg8747]

There is another video on KZbin reporting another electric powered sailboat in which batteries failed. There is a scene with one of the co-captains (a young couple) down in the bilge adjacent to the battery installation visually inspecting the batteries, no goggles, bare chested and no gloves, and complaining of the pungent expulsions from a damaged case on one battery. Having seen what a tiny cell phone battery does when ruptured and exposed to the elements and knowing the gasses that are released all I could say watching the video was, Dumbass!

[@TheCornucopiaProject-bd5jk]

@ that just about sums it up

[@bru512]

I own an 1970 Irwin 28 with an electricYacht motor. I recently converted the Lead Acid to LiFePO4 that provides 7 hours at 4 knots. It's a great solution I bought new batteries like Chuck after considering used ones for similar reasons I would never put used batteries from a Leaf in my boat That all said, I am not convinced this was a battery fire incident I was hoping the results of the autopsies would be published, looking for signs of smoke inhalation, etc. Lack of ePIRB signal is interesting The captain appeared to be a very good sailor

[@ronschwolsky1626]

I find it hard to believe that they would be without an EPIRB.

[@DoubleMonoLR]

They may have just kept it an unsuitable location, and lost it with the boat.

[@sissyfus6181]

Their videos showed that they did have an EPIRB. But they never registered it. Safety and brains wasn't his thing.

[@williamlabarre4755]

Trans-Atlantic? 1 for the boat, 1 for the emergency raft, and a personal one on each PFD. Almost enough. Sad story.

[@TheWorldsprayer]

I think the three lessons learned here: 1: Don't experiment with custom battery setups, too much potential for fire when mixing reactive-salt batteries and water 2: HAVE AN EPIRB! I was an army pilot who flew over the water a lot and the idea of being over/in the water without a transponder terrifies me. 3: Have a ration pack attached to your life raft with emergency ration water/food and basic survival supplies. It's not a bad idea to have an epirb or radio beacon attached to this as well so that it's not the location of your ship that's marked but YOU once you're self-rescued.

[@markleyg]

What makes you think the batteries had anything to do with this?

[@bloodyblade916]

Very wise words Worldspryer

[@TheWorldsprayer]

@@markleyg Well, since we don't have the vessel itself we can't KNOW anything so ANY lesson learned/taken about the vessel is entiretly based on supposition. That said, you're allowed as a human to use your brain as it's designed and extrapolate probable scenarios, and since nissan leaf battery packs are actually famous for cheap construction and thermal overload, that's the foundation for that particular "lesson" i'm taking. (my understanding is he used said battery pack for his lithium conversion)

[@sissyfus6181]

@@markleyg "What makes you think the batteries had anything to do with this?" They had 2 devices that could signal an SOS with position. No signal was sent. What scenario could cause someone to abandon boat so rapidly that they would abandon without either device?

[@DementatDeus]

@@markleyg without the vessel, you can't, but here is my take. I work in R&D developing the battery packs for cars. These are absolutely not a safe product for a DIY boat build. They are so dangerous outside the protection of the car frame that we are strictly prohibited from shipping them in airplanes, have to meet a litany of special conditions to ship them in a cargo vessel, and even when shipped by truck are not allowed to ship charged above 30% or if they are damaged in ANY way. When we do have a damaged one or any needing disposed of, we discharge them in salt water, specifically 1% salinity salt water. It has to be that specific salinity because less than that can cause them to not actually fully discharge and if salinity is as high as 2% it can cause them to discharge so fast they explode. Seawater is 3.5% salinity and as little as half a liter absolutely can make a bad enough short to cause a few cells in the pack to explode. When one cell explodes it can cause the cell next to it to explode too, this is called propagation. In a car there are systems to prevent runaway propagation. Removed from a car, most of those systems are taken away. To top it off, this is a metal fire (class D) and will continue to burn hot enough to burn, yes burn not melt, fiberglass, and I've seen it melt aluminum even while submerged. I feel sorry for these folk losing their lives, but having one of these car battery packs in a boat around sea water is just showing how little they knew what they were doing. These automotive batteries are high energy systems that turn into literal bombs if put in the wrong conditions. They are not something to DIY. If you are considering going electric, do not copy their setup, it is not safe. Use lithium-iron-phosphate batteries like all the professional electric boat setups. Lithium-iron-phosphate is chosen because it is reasonably safe and stable around seawater. Do not DIY from any other lithium battery type.

[@neilw5198]

Crazy having those batteries on a boat....i think a good lesson is also keep multiple ditch bags, one in the dingy, one in the yacht and one in the life raft. RIP.

[@84Rabbitz]

I would never switch to electric drive if I'm crossing oceans... I would definitely want a diesel no matter the size.

[@AltaMirage]

Old salt here. First Ocean passage 1984 at 14. First survival storm in the North Atlantic March of 1989. More than 70,000 nautical miles under sail, overwhelming majority of it as professional skipper. Sailed to every continent on Earth bar Antarctica, and that's only because I turned down jobs to there based on poor SOP's. Nothing beats the reliability power and simplicity of diesel. I have seen a few full electric setups on sailboats so far... and so far every one I have seen has been an abject failure. I was very concerned to see the level of hard solar panels on high level stainless lattice together with the modified companionway. If they placed that massive battery above the waterline, which likely they had to... this would have had significant consequences for the stability characteristics. Also the battery is not designed for that application, nor the boat to accept it. The original engine would have been part of the stability calculations.

[@84Rabbitz]

@AltaMirage I agree 100% if you are going to build an electric sailboat the battery needs to be built into the keel . And possibly be able to jettison it if need be as an attachment to the keel. And yes , if you are already being heeled over by wind. Those panels are going to be a serious problem. I'm a coastal sailor and hardly ever lose sight of land and still wouldn't try that. And I only have a 30' Catalina 30.

[@ChrisHarding-lk3jj]

Electric propulsion is fine as long as you have a generator capable of powering the electric propulsion continuously.

[@marcmazal1]

I was on a sailing boat between Tanzania and Seychelles. We almost hit the periscope of a submarine at night. So, this was my first thought when I heard about the missing Theros

[@sissyfus6181]

I was on a boat at night when aliens took the whole boat right next to us!!!

[@wess8131]

I am sure it was not the Russian submarine because you couldn't write about it.

[@billoxley5315]

What are the odds!wow !

[@gerrys6265]

@@billoxley5315 Those odds are crazy but I remember over twenty years ago, a submarine surfaced and hit a sailboat off Victoria B.C.....you just never know.

[@davidseslar5798]

A surfacing US sub near Hawaii collided with a 191'/740 gross ton fishing trawler - used as a high-school training vessel - that sank in 10 minutes, with 9 fatalities among the 35 people aboard. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehime_Maru_and_USS_Greeneville_collision

[@joebwan0240]

Once I heard they used a car EV battery in a saltwater environment the hairs on the back of my head stood up. A fire at sea is probably the worst kind of disaster. A fire extinguisher won't work on that kind of fire.

[@PaulBKal]

Yep, what could possibly go wrong!

[@FTATF]

Marine grade battery or not there is a risk with the current technology available and batteries especially on the ocean. If you can't fly with it, you should seriously think about boating with it. Boats are more dangerous than airplanes.

[@barroosa]

So tragic! EPIRBs and PLBs are so affordable now. Please do yourself, your family and friends and don't leave shore without one.

[@CaptRR]

Exactly, hell if you are crossing the ocean you should probably have more than one, in case you can’t reach one of them.

[@450ktm520]

If the guy can afford what he's doing EPIRB / PLB is only $400 to $1000

[@oogdiver]

My guess is that the battery went on fire with such rapidity that the accommodation and cockpit were untenable in seconds. They were forced into the tender to escape before they could gather any emergency and survival equipment. The fire destroyed the life raft and any EPIRB carried. With no food or water in the tender they drifted for some time before passing away.

[@ZapDog43]

Best idea on what happened here

[@Caperhere]

The autopsy reports would know if they had inhaled anything from a fire.

[@scouseaussie1638]

@@CaperhereDid you read the autopsy report?

[@scouseaussie1638]

I totally agree those battery fires are terrifying.

[@jimkennedy9242]

That's sounds very plausible. And I imagine that they tumbled into that raft with terrible burns, as they tried to retrieve survival gear. Awful.

[@Dschickler]

Your channel name was the reason for my finding you. I have been able to make a career as a naval architect, and I designed a performing cruising ketch called Lady K some years ago. This compelling video, however, got you a sub. Very sorry to hear of the passing of this pair. Plenty of pundits will discuss the decisions made. I welcome your generally balanced approach. Yet it is a reminder, one of too many, that the sea finds every weakness, eventually.

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching!

[@troublekaliman]

Excellent

[@Kiki-Kauai]

We aren’t sailors but love water and always owned boats. After living on the island for many years we finally bought a new 30’ Zodiac custom built specifically to travel between islands in Hawaii. The longest stretch of open ocean would be 150 nautical miles from Maui to Big Island. The other islands are about 100. But we intended to use it mostly to go around Kauai, which has 111 miles of stunning coastline. The very first thing I ordered was an EPIRB. After we outfitted it we got out and started getting comfortable running around Kauai and Niihau many times. We had many beautiful days of boating but we also found ourselves in storms that kicked up out of nowhere with some pretty harrowing swells and things that happen on boats in storms. The windlass broke loose and the anchor was dangerously banging against the hull, the electronics went out from the big waves coming from both sides. Just boat stuff. Prior to heading out for the more challenging journey to other islands, we made an appointment with the coast guard to have them come aboard, do an inspection and file our plans with them. Maybe it was more than needed but the channel between Kauai and Oahu is considered to be dangerous with strong currents, large swells and unpredictable weather conditions with sudden changes in wind conditions. This couple reminds me of us and breaks my heart to learn they didn’t make it.

[@bos6782]

Sad story, but educational as well. Great couple with great adventures in mind, may they rest in peace.

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching!

[@SnarkySailor]

The battery pack from the Nissan Leaf. I’ve thought that since I first heard this story. This is basic, he totally should have known this. There’s no excuse for anything other than LiFePO4 or lead acid on a boat.

[@caribbeanbound8357]

Those battery packs are designed specifically to work with the systems in the car that they were built for. Toying with them is a recipe for disaster. Even well educated electrical engineers and techs are in jeopardy of causing problems when they toy with these systems. I've seen it many times where even the largest companies such as GM have destroyed their own vehicle battery packs they didnt design because they didnt fully understand the systems.

[@mikecarnivale7304]

I have never understood these people insisting on thinking they're going green by ditching the diesel motor for an electric motor. You run your diesel engine so little that any impact you think you're making on the environment is nothing compared to the impact you're making on the environment by them having to manufacture battery packs

[@Chip.hazard]

Welcome in the modern day filosophy... never look further than the tip of your nose...

[@leonbouwer7953]

your comment is spot on. this was virtue signalling on steroids. and it killed them. i have just returned from a weeks sailing up and down the Irish sea. we overnight-ed in marines up and down the coast, so used the diesels more that if you sailed the open sea. yet we did not even use 3l of diesel. To go electric on a sailboat to look 'green' and throw out a perfectly safe and reliable diesel engine, is plain stupid. Sailing by definition is 'green'. as you say that little bit of diesel is irrelevant.

[@forestgrump2168]

This!

[@kevinbuda7087]

spot on.

[@troublekaliman]

double “this” very very naive move vs the incredible skill and preparedness these and other sailors possess to be able to sail as they do…

[@KiwiCatherineJemma]

"Passage Guardian" is a free service offered to recreational boaties making ocean voyages and uses HF Radio. If people don't check in for more than, I think maybe 24 or 48 hours then authorities are notified by volunteers on dry land. A quicker and more targetted response may well have saved lives. Plus, remember the EPIRBs folks. If you can afford a big ocean sailing yacht, you can afford an epirb for the main boat, the tender/dinghy and the liferaft.

[@SVOceanBird]

I worked for BCF as an Engineer and crossed paths with him several times…He was always pleasant🙏

[@alanm500]

All I can think about is how one died before the other on that little boat. How awful that must’ve been.

[@FritsKist]

No mercy! Play stupid games, win stupid prices.

[@travistucker7317]

​@FritsKist​Who pissed in your corn flakes?

[@LIamaLlama554]

Also no crying as that will only hasten Death’s arrival. Very sad.

[@bru512]

The sea shows no mercy

[@gabrielletanner5339]

Same here, horrible way to go.

[@HooberTube]

Nova Scotian here - thank you for taking time to post this. So many click-bait accounts have posted this event on socials without any analysis. Small note: "Sable Island", part of Nova Scotia and famous for its horses, is prounounced like the furry critter and rhymes with "table". It's from the Frech word for sand, sable, which ironically is not pronounced like the island!

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching and for the pronunciation correction! I'll remember that for future videos.

[@therealpatriarchy]

The "Frech" word is pronounced French.

[@JohnnyDanger36963]

​@@LadyKSailingsable island sea monster Rodney ross

[@JonBrase]

​@@LadyKSailingAlso, bear in mind that pronouncing it "Sabble" like you did here risks confusion with Savo Island of WWII fame, which is all the way on the other side of the world (Solomon Islands). I thought you actually said "Savo Island" and was rather puzzled until I saw this comment.

[@michaelmarrone5768]

Thanks for the update. I was very happy when you brought up the EPIRB. With all their precautions, wouldn't they have invested in an EPIRB?

[@TheCornucopiaProject-bd5jk]

You ca N even rent them for passages.

[@jnmrn4069]

I was shocked to see they didn’t have an EPIRB! All the time and money they put into that boat, but no EPIRB? He made some poor decisions (particularly the lithium batteries and no EPIRB) and that poor lady was depending on him and his experience to keep her safe.

[@southface06]

If they had an EPIRB in the cabin and there was an explosive battery fire it would be difficult to reach, and later it may have been destroyed by fire. I have a PLB-AIS fitted in my life jacket as a backup, I think this redundancy is necessary and it only costs 700 euros.

[@Midlife-Adventures]

A PLB attached to each life vest has some benefits as well.

[@srcastic8764]

They’re pretty inexpensive to buy nowadays. If I were sailing I would have one on the boat in a go bag and one in the life raft. But there is absolutely no reason not to have one now days.

[@jride632]

I have to believe if they were safety conscious enough to go through the process to have the emergency raft checked and repacked, then they had to have an EPIRB. I suspect maybe they were in a situation where they had to get off board quickly (fire?). Maybe the EPIRB when down with the boat. Sad story for sure. Hope the family and sailing community can get some answers so we can all learn.

[@sissyfus6181]

"if they were safety conscious enough to go through the process ..." There is no evidence he was safety conscious. The evidence points to the contrary. Rafts should be inspected every 3 years. What is mentioned in the video is from 4 years ago. That's just for starters.

[@Dan-Chrssy]

That’s why you mount it within arms reach of the helm

[@JS-di9qg]

This is a sad and unfortunate story. Rip. My current boat and my previous boat are diesel electric. A generator feeds two electric motors. Straight forward, no batteries involved. My main bank is LiFePo4, pretty safe in a marine environment. DIY if you don’t know what you’re doing can be deadly. That said: the boat went down very fast. They did not even take a phone to record their ordeal and leave at least a message to their children. So either the life raft or the tender could have come loose. I noticed, that in order to put on their solar panels, they removed their mizzen mast. That could affect the balance of the boat. Sea water on the battery would result in fire. So it could have been a collision with a UFO like a container, run over by a ship or even a breaching whale landing on them as well. Either way if water found its way onto that battery, the boat would have burnt very quickly. Sad story.

[@troublekaliman]

Love that setup Most if not all Freight trains are same - electric with diesel generators- no batteries.

[@charlesmackay2737]

That's 2 weeks in a row you have a tale to tell. Both times I listened to it all in suspense. You have a knack for story telling. Sadly, this couple passed away, presumably of thirst but we may never find out what led to this.

[@paulhendershott667]

As a pilot with some very remote trips, I was equipped with the standard ELT transmitter, the Globalstar or Iridium satellite phones (depending where I was in North America and Canada, 8-12 gallons of water (in the rear of the plane at all times for weight and balance necessity and great for emergencies) and 4 weeks of MRE's and freeze dried food. If traversing large bodies of water, I usually decided against that route because flying in the cold water survival and immersion suits would be too difficult being a big guy. I think if they had considered a floating provision raft along with their 10ft survival raft, they would have been fine. Combining an ocean crossing with a huge potential for water and lithium battery blocks to come in contact with each other seems like an unnecessary and bad idea from the start. Just watching other KZbin channels documenting their ocean crossings, and all the water splashing everywhere as they get tossed about, I would never trust an electric main engine system. Even Tesla's with the safest battery technology when it comes to being immersed in water, there are still a number of extreme failures where the entire car went up like a roman candle.... I would also be having Extreme Range-Anxiety with a limited battery life measured in hours of use vs weeks of useful range with a Diesel motor...

[@davidseslar5798]

"Extreme Range-Anxiety" Dude - it's a sailboat. Essentially unlimited range. And the diesel system that was deleted didn't have 'weeks of useful range' - an ad for a sister GibSea 42 listed 180 liters fuel capacity and 4 liters/hr consumption by its 50hp diesel engine, so about 45 hours of run-time. Not that much compared to a 20 to 30 day crossing, and far from 'weeks' of range.

[@bonvivant55]

Lithium batteries burn really hot. Water and electronics obviously don't mix well. But I consider the refit a waste of time if it doesn't have an emergency go kit including a floatation device with self rescue, water, basic first aid, medications, coms, GPS, flares, reflective blankets, basic fishing kit, bank line, knife, way to make shelter and fire, and a way to solar charge. A go bag containing all of these (save the tender) is a 45lb waterproof backpack made by many companies these days. I keep one in my truck, and only make small situational adjustments. Use your bag. Take only that bag camping for a few days. You'll quickly realize what you need to add or subtract.

[@Pelican5077]

We have lived on our 35 ft sailboat since 2011. Lots of sea miles under our keel. With a 30HP engine and a custom variable pitch Max Prop we avg 4/10s of a gallon per hour @ 6 knots. Cruising range from our 40 gallon tank is safely 500NM and can be stretched beyond 600NM if needed. With 20 gallons stored on deck we can go 900NM. From Charleston SC we could power all the way to Bermuda, and still have plenty of fuel to spare. Why anyone would believe that a battery powered boat is safer for offshore sailing is beyond my capability to understand. For a short handed crew on a multi day ocean passage having a reliable engine is a safety feature. Sad story for sure. We all know the possibility exists that you can leave and not make it back to shore. But there are things you can do to improve the odds. Converting to an electric engine isn’t one of those things.

[@Rosiestoned]

its about being more eco friendly

[@Pelican5077]

@ First of all, it’s not actually ‘eco friendly’. The upstream costs (both in the energy needed and the human costs [slave mining of lithium in Congo as just one example] far exceed whatever minimal impact (in terms of pollution or money spent on fuel) there is. But more importantly, it can be a matter of life or death. It’s 3600 NM from Miami to Lisbon. With decent weather and no issues that’s 25-30 days at sea. Here’s your choice. With everything else being equal (vessel, crew, safety gear, food, etc) you can choose one of the following: -boat with a well maintained diesel engine, providing battery charging as needed, cabin heat as needed, 900NM of cruising range, and the ability to power thru doldrums as needed, or help outrun a low pressure area, etc. -Boat with an engine operated by battery, primarily reliant on solar or wind, no cabin heat capability, range of 100NM or less, unable to be used (except in short bursts) to power through doldrums or outrun a storm. If number two is your choice because you want to be ‘eco friendly’ that’s fine. But when you make that choice you are giving up the much wider margin of safety that an engine provides. Having spent the past 47 years sailing all over the world, and the last 15 years doing so full time, I wouldn’t even consider being part of voyage on a boat with a battery driven engine. It might be fine for day sailing. But for actual voyaging, it’s not.

[@Rosiestoned]

@ I do agree diesel motors are more reliable for long voyages currently. I was saying that the reason the couple wanted to go electric was not safety it was to be more green, it was mentioned in the video.

[@Pelican5077]

@ Copy. Yeah I get that. I’m just making the point that choosing ‘going green’ over safety is literally asking, no actually begging, for trouble. And they found trouble. And sadly, it cost them their lives. Based on the info in the video, they were totally unprepared in numerous other ways as well. I get that it’s easy to be an armchair QB after the fact. But they did so many things wrong and they were totally unprepared for an Atlantic crossing, irrespective of the engine issue. Hopefully others with aspirations will learn from what occurred and in that regard, they have made a lasting, albeit tragic, contribution to the sailing community.

[@richarddewilde9244]

Sounds like it went down fast ,batteries burn HOT& fast . Sometimes green just isn't a good idea. God bless their souls.

[@troublekaliman]

And the actual green part is a sad s c a m -

[@theworldisavampire3346]

Nothing "Green" about lithium mining, lithium batteries and waste.

[@ppumpkin3282]

The thing that concerns me most about an ocean crossing in a fiberglass boat is submerged objects like containers, or big logs. They can sink you in a minute and hard to spot.

[@CheapHomeTech]

Since well over 50%, maybe 80%, of the small boats that cross the ocean are made of fiberglass why don't we see this more often?

[@Coffee23]

As do Orcas.

[@LoanwordEggcorn]

@@Coffee23 Whales are soft enough to absorb most of the damage, unfortunately. The orcas attacking sailboats near Portugal are unusual and don't usually sink the boats. The biggest threat is containers in the open ocean and logs near shores and of course rocks/coral reefs/etc. Plastic composite boats take much worse damage than metal boats in a collision.

[@mirekchance]

I would say when the beacon went out, that is when they had issue with the boat....

[@michfloridaman]

Lithium Ion batteries are the single largest danger to the reliability and safety of you and your vessel. As a marine tech, the two most common failures I address daily are electrical and fuel system issues. There is no more hostile environment to sensitive electronics than a boat, especially one operated in salt water / air. As sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, an electrical failure WILL happen to you. The only question is, did you do your research and outfit accordingly to minimize the types of failures that would result? I can go into a myriad of reasons why you will only see lead acid battery banks without a single Chinese component in the system on the vessels I repair and own. I encourage every reader of this comment to believe I'm dead wrong on this and let your fingers do the walking on Google. The articles and technical literature are out there for anyone to review.

[@stefflus08]

I have no need to assume you are wrong, in fact I have seen the same things. But I am curious how you avoid chinese components. Do you mean chinesium blackmarket components?

[@iainbrown4945]

Agree lithium ion batteries are dangerous ; lithium iron phosphate batteries on the other hand are very stable

[@michfloridaman]

@iainbrown4945 Anything with lithium incorporated into its construction to me presents an unacceptable risk. But to each their own.

[@michfloridaman]

@stefflus08 Chinese components are hard to get away from, as is foreign labor with poor quality controls. But, some European and American manufacturers do so better than others in mitigating failure while ensuring reliability. Victron is regarded as a gold standard in charge controllers, for example, but at a steep cost to be sure. Practical Sailor and Tim with Lady K are a great resource on manufacturers I'd recommend.

[@troublekaliman]

Excellent Excellent advice. Seems the hype and lure of the green s c a m has infected the amazing brains of these incredibly prepared sailor peepols… hope they wake up

[@eddelves6318]

A hint for the Camino trail. If you DON'T like being chased by packs of dogs every time you get near a settlement then you might want to reconsider.

[@troublekaliman]

Oh jeez, thanks for the tip

[@thomashall6888]

Glad to see that they packed a lot of fun into their lives before they died. My guess is that the battery went into thermal runaway and when they couldn't control the fire they boarded the dinghy and tethered it to Theros with the hope that they might re-board after the fire, or at least be tied to something large and visible. In the end Theros burned to the waterline along with the life raft and they cut themselves loose.

[@Bustefaen]

Probably the most likely scenario. Also, most reports indicate they were found in the dinghy, not the life raft. That would be noone’s choice on the open ocean, indicating they had to move quickly forward of a fire.

[@DonaldMcKay3768]

I've owned 7 sailboats over a lifetime, most of them used as cruising boats. The weakest system on board was the batteries in every case. I've sailed every one of them into harbor with a dead battery, sometimes with a dead bank of batteries. I would never go cruising without a way to generate electricity that was positive and independent of outside forces like wind or sun. It's true I'm a "pale green" water sailor who wouldn't dream of crossing oceans, but to me the decision to rely on electric for auxiliary power was their first mistake and might have led to the disaster. However, there's no solid evidence of that. All we can say for sure is that: 1. They realized they had to abandon ship in time to save themselves 2. Whatever the emergency was, it happened so fast they couldn't, or at least didn't, bring communications, food and water with them. A runaway battery fire does fit with those two facts but it's not the only possible explanation. Crossing an ocean under sail is a complex management task that requires someone to keep track of many pieces of equipment and make sure you have the right spares and backups on board. As Lady K Sailing says, had they had an EPIRB at the ready by the companionway, this episode might have ended much differently. What is hard to understand is why the owners' relatives didn't press rescuers harder to start the search earlier. While it's of course common to lose comms and be sailing along on schedule, the relatives knew they had planned to report in periodically and they didn't. Seems to me that was a red flag that ought to have been the trigger for a search. What's the worst that could happen? They're fine, and the Coast Guard has to send them a big bill?

[@sissyfus6181]

"As Lady K Sailing says, had they had an EPIRB at the ready by the companionway, " They did, as seen in their videos, how lady k missed that I don't know. Their EPIRB was not registered. As you said losing communications wasn't seen by authorities (and Garmin) as validating a search in the absence of an SOS. That may be a point of legal contention.

[@troublekaliman]

Exc comment. Was just thinking the same thing- Get the f-n rescue squad out as soon as the tracker went out - and pay the f-n bill -

[@youvaug00a]

As an electrician, I would have never put EV cells in a saltwater boat. I can only assume the battery banks were more aft, if she went up in flames it would have been explosively quick! They may have had to excavate through a forward hatch and cut the dinghy loose with no emergency gear just to keep from burning with the vessel. God rest them 😢

[@gregdavidd]

I dont know how much an EPIRB cost but I am an avid hiker and a very inexpensive item which would have saved their lives is a Garmin inReach. Cheap to buy and cheap for the subscription. I dont hike without it.

[@sissyfus6181]

They had both.

[@LoanwordEggcorn]

About $300 for a Personal Locator Beacon. PLB is similar to EPIRB but has shorter battery run time.

[@Yggdrasil42]

I use an Inreach too, when I go offshore diving. Garmin makes a dive case that allows you to bring it with you underwater. It only works on the surface of course but if you surface and your boat is gone, this can be a lifesaver.

[@gregdavidd]

@@Yggdrasil42 Haha Im a diver too and I did not know that :) In the past, as an instructor, we left people behind at the dive site and I bet they wish they had one :)

[@johnglowinski1321]

Sad story Tim. Even before you got to it, I was asking myself about an EPIRB. Seems like a no brainer.

[@troublekaliman]

epirb could have been a victim of the lithium fire…

[@johncurcio3621]

Even with the best planned safety precautions, they still died miserably. I'm retiring soon. My plan is to never leave the house, keep the all curtains closed, and watch modern society's death and carnage on KZbin. I feel lucky to still be alive.

[@sissyfus6181]

"Even with the best planned safety precautions" All the evidence is that he was very cavalier about safety.

[@alisonf6478]

Fun!

[@jimkennedy9242]

Cool!

[@johan8724]

😂😂😂

[@phenogen8125]

Do not forget to do 1500 steps a day to maximize that dream life......

[@HandyMan657]

This rings close to home being fans of Wisdom. I can't imagine. Thanks?, Tim Take care, fair winds.

[@MrSafetyForever]

So many unanswered questions. Greatly saddened to learn of this tragedy.

[@mikefougere]

I'm waiting for the autopsy reports if they had traces of inhaled smoke. Any knowledge on autopsies?

[@LadyKSailing]

Nothing posted anywhere :(

[@rogersonnenfeld7987]

With all the incorporated upgrades to that yacht, it would be hard to believe they didn't have a 400.00 EPIRP on board. RIP.

[@chippyjohn1]

Or some bottles of fresh water.

[@rioborzeli147]

Sad story, 🇨🇦 Always remembered and appreacieated

[@Cptnbond]

I wish all dreamers looked up Sailing with Thomas, and carefully consider the episodes about SAILING WITHOUT AN ENGINE IS A RECIPE FOR A DISASTER and SAILING OFFSHORE IS A DIFFERENT BALLGAME.

[@markleyg]

Are you assuming their motor caused their demise?

[@lucius1976]

Yeah, found him to be the one with most knowledge. I am a total newbie, intent to binge watch his episodes over christmas

[@PyeGuySailing]

He's wrong!

[@Cptnbond]

​@@markleyg Several commenters have pointed out that using lithium from the car (leaf) is unwise and may have caused a fire. We will not know, of course, but the point is that going away from the well-tried path of traditional solutions has its own unique risks, driven by some green hype. The lesson is to make a sound evaluation before going on a profound offshore passage and, for example, watch my suggested episodes. With this, their choices may have been different and may have saved their lives.

[@Cptnbond]

@@PyeGuySailing In which way?

[@chiefcliff]

The FAA issues 30 day reports and a final report on air crash's. The Coast Guard doesn't do this? How difficult is it to ID whether they were in a life raft or dighy? Were there signs that they had supplies? Were there attempts to collect water or fish in the 10ft inflatable? Were there iniuries on the bodies to indicate fire or collision before leaving the boat? What was the drift pattern of the sea to indicate how long they drifted and from where? This seems so elementary and needed by the boating community to avoid making the same mistakes, if any...

[@sissyfus6181]

This is a Canadian thing don't forget. There is an investigation underway, how long it will take is unsure. Canada has pretty strict confidentiality laws so unclear what information will be released. If you read between the lines, there may be lawsuits pending.

[@bru512]

Great questions. When do we get a report?

[@davidseslar5798]

@@bru512 Uh . . . reports are based on information. Unless the hulk of the Theros is found floating, there will be no more information than what little is included here. So what do you expect this "report" to work with?

[@Yggdrasil42]

⁠we'd expect more details on what they found. Was it the dinghy or the life raft? We're any supplies found? Smoke inhalation in the bodies? Etc. It's not like nothing at all was found.

[@ooweesaler]

Sad sad indeed. Better to have lived life, loved and lost than never to have done so.

[@margaretocean322]

Would not swap my boring life to die of exposure and starvation in a life raft on the Atlantic Ocean.

[@robertmorrison107]

100% have an EPIRB. Quench Sea's are a new micro salt water deionizer. Perfect for throwing on a dinghy. Portland Pudgy's come available with a sail kit, get the sail kit. They make them for zodiacs too. If they'd have had that or the IPIRB, we'd be hearing this story from them.

[@anthonyfrattalone9937]

The fact that they died doesn't bother me too much. I am happy to know they lived their dreams and that they found each other, even though it was late in life. I am bothered thinking about them suffering for a long time in the life raft. I am also bothered by the fact that in their attempt to be "green" they may have lead to their own suffering and death. The amount of diesel they would have burned on that trip pales in comparison to the resources used to make that leaf electric motor. I also wonder why, if they were so technically savvy and prepared, that they wouldn't have had more rations and an epirb. It doesnt all add up. Either way, we'll probably never know. The ocean doesn't like to tell it's secrets. I commend them for their willingness to put it all on the line and live their dreams. RIP.

[@Sommers234]

Agree. Diesel is a workhorse and doesn't use much fuel.

[@troublekaliman]

yes, the green wave is an incredible s c a m

[@stewthebassman]

Yeah they seemed super happy together, a real later in life discovery. They died together in their little life raft. Not everyone is that lucky.

[@mountainmandale1587]

Good information, Tim. Thanks for the video.

[@DoctorMangler]

You did a great job on this story, very tastefully done I think. This story really saddened me, because I could see myself in this fella. Echoing some of the other comments however, LiIon batteries in a boat is more risk than I would personally take. I love diesel, I love the smell, the stability and the reliability of diesel engines. I love electrics too, motors and batteries, but I think it's folly to have so much LiIon in a boat. I've also seen boats sink for other reasons, rudder stock destruction, hitting submerged objects.... so who knows? Great job on this story and thanks again for your hard work.

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching!

[@chrisgilman245]

I think when I have my life raft serviced, I will include a journal and a pen, so if I die others can learn.

[@sissyfus6181]

Have an EPIRB and PLB added to your life raft.

[@dmitryk7320]

Include a pencil, ink in a pen might dry out.

[@Malama_Ki]

I put a note in mine: “if you’re reading this, things have gone horribly wrong, but it’s ok, you got this.” True story.

[@AltaMirage]

Should be part of any grab bag kit. As should long range signalling equipment, however, ideally in redundant quantities. One EPIRB fired is going to result in a "BOLO", two will launch a search and rescue op.

[@Sadiehikes]

@@dmitryk7320 or be ruined by the water.

[@MrPtitzzz]

We just bought our first boat with my best friend - planning to outfit it to bounce around the Mediterranean. I'm an aerospace engineer by trade and know plenty of what can go wrong on a plane. But this channel is so cool to learn about all the things that can go wrong on a boat hah. And how to stay safe. Even reading the comments is incredibly informative. So yeah, thanks for these vids, and thanks to all the couch experts!

[@tms1624]

If I am not mistaken Nissan Leaf batteries are of the NMC type. This chemistry runs the risk of thermal runaway resulting in a violent fire. That's not that much of an issue in cars. The incidents are low probability and if it happens you pull over and run away. On a boat it is a negligent choice. So is going beyond VHF range without an EPIRB. It's really sad to see the consequences, when with an EPIRB, they would have had decent chances of rescue.

[@lisamariereilly9080]

As a Canadian this is such a sad story. I can’t imagine what it would have been like in their raft awaiting rescue hoping they would be spotted in the vast ocean seemingly without an epirb. Horrible.,

[@jaybarry8483]

An EPIRB must be registered . As well as your radar, VHF and SSB. Was there no SSB radio?

[@Dan-Chrssy]

Registering an EPIRB take all of five minutes

[@Dan-Chrssy]

Takes*

[@MarkParshall-mg2fv]

Not enough info. Autopsy (cause of death and time estimate) would help. Why is there no record of what type of raft (life or dingy) they were found in. Inventory of their persons and dingy?

[@PyeGuySailing]

I built an electric sailboat and belong to the electric sailboat forum.This is crucially important; NEVER use Li-Po batteries. It's extremely dangerous in a sailboat because if they go, they go strong and fast. You will not be able to extinguish them. A Nissan leaf battery was a terrible choice. Please don't do that. Instead, use LiFePo4 or LTO, they're safe.. Lifepo4 is cheaper and probably a better choice.

[@bru512]

Agreed. LiFePO4 batteries are inexpensive and come with internal fuses for improved safety

[@thedude1249]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="928">15:28</a> Sable (SAY....BULL) Island. The batteries shorted out and caused a fire. They had to leave the boat very fast. Tragic. There needs to be regulations implemented for "Experimental DIY" vessels. These types of modifications should never have been approved. Wouldn't the last Marine Survey show unsafe modifications, who approved this vessel for ocean travel?

[@davidseslar5798]

We are all eager to learn of how you came to such a definitive decision on what occurred - crystal ball, magic 8 ball or ouija board? Your sagacity is surely unequaled here.

[@liamegan4303]

Hello from Ireland again, Tim. That Poor Couple, 😢😢. How Sad, I hope they went into the next life, at the same time, whatever happened, it must have happened very quickly, I guess, I'm no expert, Tim. Thank you again, Sir. Stay Safe, and happy sailing ⛵️. 🙏🙏👏👏👏

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching!

[@davidkeffen]

Very sad story, and an experience sailor, but we need to hear them, so thanks. I wonder if the life-raft got snagged somehow and went down with the boat if there was a catastrophic holing or fire. Being in an open boat for 20 days would be the end of most people without rations, and crucially, water would be disastrous. The chances of catching enough water to survive must be miniscule. With no rain, impossible unless you could devise a solar still. I somehow can't imagine a trans-ocean sailor crossing without an EPIRB these days, but clearly it didn't deploy if there was one, so this suggests a fast and devastating sinking or fire.

[@pbertf24]

Thank you Tim for a great report …real sad story ! Battery runaway is most likely cause, requiring you to do an immediate evacuation . I agree with your statement : two lessons we can learn from this is of course a epirb , and a pre-prepared small evacuation bag with the essential…

[@troublekaliman]

more likely is that the eperb was a victim of the lithium fire… But, having backup similar devices as suggested by others - along with survival gear pack for the possible dingy escape…

[@landandsea333]

That was a great level-headed report, no bullshit speculation.Thanks for that. Having sailed at least half of that route with a boat that had a small fuel tank, I barely used my engine while underway so I could see that engine choice could work for some. The thermal runaway issue of the 18650 cells that make up the battery cant be totally ruled out. The extra windage of the solar array and the added battery could contribute to a capsize but only under extreme conditions. We'll never know what sank their boat and the lack of detailed info is the norm with typical news outlets that dont know squat about most subjects. I'd take my chances in the raft vs the dingy and most bluewater sailors have a bail out bag with a handheld water maker and an emergency beacon( epirb) but a lot also have a ham radio or a single sideband radio to issue a mayday before they bail into the raft. Too bad for them if they didnt have that stuff. In shipping channels boats get run over and sunk every year and with a crew of two you usually steer four hour watches to keep that from happening but maybe they used the autopilot and tried to sleep together and left their guard down and got run over. I met people that had that happen and I've almost had that happen to me so thats my pet theory without knowing what storm activity they had that few weeks they were underway. If they sailed right into a hurricane then I'd say they took a knockdown and if the hatch was open they swamped and sank. Who knows. I like that they were together no matter what happened and that seems like a happy ending to me

[@markweaver1012]

It'd be crazy to cross an ocean without an EPIRB and probably, too, a hand-held PLB (personal locator beacon) for the life raft. Really, at this point, it'd be crazy to go without a satellite communicator (Garmin In Reach or iPhone with the subscription, etc). Actually, I couldn't imagine heading off shore without a Starlink satellite internet connection. All of the above is cheap compared to the cost of a cruising sailboat (the Starlink offshore service is $250/month, but you can turn it on and pay for it only when needed).

[@sissyfus6181]

From their videos we know they had and EPIRB but unregistered. They had a Garmin inReach.

[@stewthebassman]

I was thinking the same thing about the Starlink, seems like a must have for ocean crossings these days.

[@tomd.3082]

If Theros did have an EPIRB on-board, in the event of a lithium battery fire, they may not have been able to retreive it due to smoke. Most everyone I know that has an EPIRB on their sailboat have it mounted just inside the campanion way. My sport fish friends mount them on the fly bridge. If I had an EPIRB, I'd probably mount it inside a cockpit locker.

[@LadyKSailing]

Good point!!

[@TheCornucopiaProject-bd5jk]

It’s really an argument for every floating vessel to have a EPIRB. That’s the sailboat, the life raft and the dinghy, plus the PFDs for the crew. Gets expensive fast though.

[@donmoore481]

I heard about this several months ago. It is hard to hear that a sailing couple in their boat was lost in the North Atlantic. It was even more alarming to think that they for whatever reason could not transmit an EPIRB signal of their problems. Problems such as a collision or fire might have happened fast that an alarm was not possible, or even worse, they didn't even have an EPIRB. I have been sailing for years and also have been driving an electric car for years. An EPIRB is a necessary pice of kit once you leave the sight of land, An electric car battery in a boat is like sailing with an unstable bomb on board. In the dark in a blow, with no solar recharging available for several days is common. For that reason I don't have an electric motor in my boat. Some storms are just not possible to outrun or avoid. Putting yourself in that situation was not a wise decision and might have cost this couple their lives.

[@glennchartrand5411]

It was the batteries. If sea water got into the battery or the battery was over-discharged they would have an extremely violent fire that was impossible to put out or contain.

[@georgegibson707]

Thanks for the excellent, well researched video, I was hoping you would cover this case after watching your last sailing tragedy video. I read the rescue authorities said "the waters where the two may have travelled through on June 13 and 14 - when contact was first lost - were experiencing heavy fog and mist. That reduced visibility to just 200-feet in sea conditions of 15-knot winds and two-metre tall waves" The Transportation Safety Board of Canada is carrying out an investigation, so hopefully there willl be some more answers from that.

[@DarwinianUniversal]

I can imagine their fate all too vividly. I feel so very very much for them and their family and friends

[@OhAwe]

I really appreciate your videos, man. Cheers.

[@caribbeanbound8357]

When Ideology is > brains

[@TonyRule]

A succinct and accurate analysis. If it was a good, safe idea, a manufacturer would have done it by now. I would immediately dismiss the concept on range alone - there's a huge difference between powering a car around the city, with varying load and regenerative braking, and a steady load situation.

[@GENECARP]

RIP , two adventurous souls…this made me sad…

[@erichschinzel6486]

Sad story...as a boatbuilder and sailor I would think a Lithium car battery pack might not be the best idea to install in a yacht... All the additional weight and windage of solar panels high up certainly won't help stability, especially in high winds and big seas.

[@woodboat3G]

My first thought is the leaf battery Cars use lithium ion batteries. Lithium ion is highly reactive with sea water and a big fire hazard. Most marine lithium batteries are Lifepo4. Lifepo4 batteries are not a fire hazard. In my opinion you should never install lithium ion batteries in a boat.

[@Hindsight-ep3hf]

I did a quick search on Nissan Leaf and they have had a few battery fires along with a recall. Also It has been speculated that salt water may have been a cause in car fires after hurricane Milton.

[@mvlivinthedream9601]

I wonder if they left any information inside the life raft/dinghy as to what happened? To be adrift for 20 days they had to know what was coming for them. Very sad.

[@jiyushugi1085]

Accounts of car battery fires appear regularly in the news, yet these folks thought it'd be a good idea to put such a battery in a boat.......

[@pdevonport7266]

At a guess I would say catastrophic battery failure, they had enough time to deploy the large inflatable without any provisions or personal Locator beacon.

[@andrewthatcher7409]

Personal location beacons are good for recreational communities Eperbs are the tops but sometimes price prohibitive plbs are the next best thing for survival at sea

[@blackmax222]

Thank you, Tim . It can be smooth sailing as a couch Captain. Should of.... could of.... would of. But they have my respect. And really, what they needed most was time. They just simply ran out of it. Godspeed Theros and crew

[@LadyKSailing]

I agree, it's heartbreaking.

[@blackmax222]

I sail the north tip of Cape Breton Island every summer in my Nordica. I do it because my father would take me as a boy. This story is close to home. Thanks again.... your one of the good ones

[@fredbarnes196]

I would guess the had to abandon ship fast or they would have put adequate provisions in the raft to help them survive for 20 days.

[@sissyfus6181]

Which is why it is very doubtful they were in their life raft rather than the dinghy.

[@paniolobud1369]

Nice Job Tim

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching!

[@NaptownPete]

Wait, what??? No EPIRB? Converting to electric for a trans-Atlantic crossing is something I would never do. A very nice couple. Sad ending.

[@gerryconnolly5426]

I'm thinking the Leaf Battery pack caught fire. Possibly would have made it if the batteries were LiFePo. Like the others, I've thought this from the first time I became aware of this tragic story.

[@tinkertailor7385]

If the S&R had found a Life Raft, they would have said so. The fact they said 10 foot inflatable boat, would suggest the bodies were in the dingy. As for the EPIRB. The boat would have had one, Brett sounded like he was a pretty good sailor and he wouldn't have gone to sea without one. The fact they were in the dingy instead of the Life raft would seem to suggest a fire to me. The life raft burned, which is why it never deployed.... Same with the EPIRB. Lithium batteries are too dangerous to be on a boat. If you've ever seen these things burn.... The whole boat would be an inferno within minutes.

[@peterkacandes5905]

so sad. no words.

[@rogerbrandt6678]

It caught on fire from those batteries.

[@ivanlefebvre3521]

Lethium car batteries DO NOT go with salt water. My guess is the batteries caught on fire and when it does, it makes for an extremely violent fire before they explode. If that is what happened, they had only seconds to abandon ship to watch it burn and sink. After being exposed to sea water, many electric cars self ignite.

[@BertVermeerSailing]

I can picture the horror: battery pack fire under the cockpit floor, intense heat. Empty all the fire extinguishers aboard and then forced out of the cabin by the heat and flames. Perhaps forced out through the forward hatch, companionway on fire. The life raft on the coach roof is right over the companionway and probably too hot to approach. Hydrostatic release destroyed by the fire and, even if it worked, the raft would be partially destroyed. Dinghy on the foredeck is the only option left. Any sailors worst nightmare and how very unfortunate.

[@sissyfus6181]

I think you are spot on.

[@sonjakunze8121]

Seems like a lot of errors, but WHY wasn't rescue dispatched when the family said they were not responding???!!!

[@sissyfus6181]

Because being out of communication is not an emergency. No SOS was sent. Rescues and searches are VERY expensive.

[@rinconman]

The engine removal has too many issues to comment upon here and the solar panels would have made the roll angle more extreme with any wind and added to instability. It was an experimental boat and sadly not looking seaworthy based just on the engine and panels issues upon first and limited views and data. EPIRB mandatory and Sat phone in waterproof case for any such journey so important. Sad and my condolences to the family.

[@TheOneanjel]

Agreed. The panels were rediculous.

[@rickybobby8224]

The Leaf batteries tell a story about risk. As if going electric isn't scary enough one should know Nissan cheaped out on the Leaf and did not provide thermal management. The batteries are known to go bad and one should never trust used Leaf batteries. Just makes me wonder about their approach to things...

[@MariusClausen-bf2kw]

Hmm.. My Leaf is 9 years and it have almost the same reach as when it was new. Most problem free car, by a huge margin, i have ever owned.

[@MonstroLab]

doesn't matter how reliable an EV battery is if its not designed for the marine environment/ salt air exposure that blue water sailboats all see, it is doomed IMO

[@ArtHelm]

RickyBobby, you're a jack-off. Nissan has a proving ground in the middle of the Sonoran desert just outside of Phoenix, AZ. One of the hottest places on earth . And their heat testing is second to none. Why do want to defame Nissan?

[@CaptRR]

Lithium fires a nasty to deal with, since you can’t put them out and they happen so fast.

[@hippyhay1659]

Physical condition may have factored into this tragedy. I'm 66, and in good health, but I would really think twice about attempting a trip like this. Not trying to put them down, but one has to realistic about their abilities as they age.

[@captainjimolchs]

How would age contribute to the death of both?

[@hippyhay1659]

@@captainjimolchs All other things being equal, I believe that In a survival situation involving injury, shock, or exposure, a younger person would stand a better chance of survival.

[@captainjimolchs]

Yours is pure speculation regarding this event. There are octogenarians out there sailing. "Survival events" are rare occurrences. Many of their age have respected their bodies.

[@troublekaliman]

Excellent point. Maybe instead of foregoing ‘adventure’ elders should just seek more extensive third party safety reviews of their setups.

[@captainjimolchs]

@@troublekaliman And young people should not because?

[@markdavis8888]

An autopsy might give more information along with a complete rescue report. Aside from the home made electric propulsion system, they did it all right. The remoteness of the ocean is unforgiving.

[@Morrisfactor]

A very sad tale. Whatever transpired, they were able to depart in the dinghy. I am thinking it is the dinghy since the only media reports do not specifically say LIFE RAFT - most agencies would surely know the difference. The cause to abandon ship obviously happened FAST. That narrows it to collision or fire. Since ships in the area at that time have already been examined for impact and nothing found, I'd guess collision is not what caused the accident. I'm thinking the battery pack shorted and started a fire - and we know how fast a fiberglass boat can burn - it goes up in a ROAR within seconds - with flames shooting high up the companionway hatch and making access to the life raft impossible. That left the couple perhaps a minute to cut the dinghy loose - with flames making it impossible to grab a GO BAG or any survival supplies. Cold, wet, with no supportive gear, their days in a dinghy would be numbered.

[@TheCornucopiaProject-bd5jk]

If this scenario is correct, then it suggests that we should have a go bag attached to the dinghy as well for passages. Spare PFDs, gps radio, a gallon of water, EPIRB and shade cloth.

[@Morrisfactor]

@@TheCornucopiaProject-bd5jk Yes. We are currently cruising in the Bahamas. While we have a life raft and EPIRB, our main emergency floatation is the 12' RIB set on the foredeck - already full with the GO BAG, water, emergency sail, sun tarp, etc. - we need only grab the EPIRB and get into the RIB - hopefully with the life raft also tied to it for double protection. I have been at two marinas back in Washington state where fiberglass boats caught fire - and let me tell you - those things go up FAST! The heat and black smoke is intense and one would have to stand off very quickly. I mention those boats only because lithium batteries that short out would set the fiberglass alight very easily and quickly. One might have just a minute or two before the boat is fully engulfed.

[@LIamaLlama554]

@@TheCornucopiaProject-bd5jkmore than a gallon I reckon, even w the epirb

[@OttoBAbear]

The difference between lithium ion vs lithium iron phosphate compositions, and the newest safety features built into packs. I wish I knew more.

[@CheapHomeTech]

A quick google of "Nissan leaf fires" would have probably made him realize he's playing Russian Roulette with his boat and needs an EPIRB along with a months worth of food. He seemed like he could have easily gotten some cameras to stream via Starlink. Doing so takes very little storage and bandwidth.

[@ericdelevinquiere9902]

Not sure I would ever use a car ready pack for a small boat like this unless I break it up in lower voltage components. Salt water is a good conductor and at nominal car batteries voltage it’s asking for trouble unless you are prepared to isolate above and beyond car requirements. Just assume you are building a submarine and you should be ok As an engineer, i would definitely not recommend going over 48v and even at that level all precautions from contact with sea water need to be in effect.

[@johncartelli]

i read that lithium batteries react violently when exposed to water. When they explode they burn so hot that they almost impossible to put out. this would allow them to burn through a steel hull in seconds never mind a fiberglass one. food for thought if your considering electric power on a boat