Land Rover Series Disc Brake Conversion - Design and Development Engineering

Series Drum brakes are famed for simple design and easy maintenance, However that becomes frequent cycles of readjustment and balancing when used off road.
I set out to readdress this with a disc brake conversion.
There is a few out there, (Forbyn, Zeus and Hystee to name a few) I went with Design and Development Engineering (DDE)
www.designdevelopmenteng.co.uk/
* Within the time to produce this video DDE have gone further to help with the kit by producing their own in house hub if you don't have the capability nearby to have the hubs machined. It does make it more DIY friendly.
** It is wholly possible further developments will come as the product evolves so all info is as accurate as I can make it at the time of Filming / publication
DDE disc kit front: www.designdevelopmenteng.co.u...
DDE disc kit rear: www.designdevelopmenteng.co.u...
Top caliper bolts: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M12-x-1-25...
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[@kevinmcrae2704]

Thank you for posting, looking at doing the same.👍

[@HeinerStorchennest1]

Thanks a lot for the quick response.

[@billbarber1710]

This is a good kit. I probably would have gone down this route if I would have known about it. Would have been easier than changing over to Range Rover Axles!

[@im_just_a_sad_guy]

Is it possible to use discovery discs and calipers on a series

[@steamwally]

Nice video, thanks. I'm considering a disc conversion for my 109" and it will probably be the Heystee kit. What master cylinder set up have you gone for? From my research it seems that an early 110 master is the way to go?

[@Devonlandrover]

Hi. I too looked at the same pages you found, I went with the reasoning that a early 90 MC should work for an 88 and if not then I will swap it out for a 110 one. I'll find out when she's on the road.

[@alansamuel490]

@@Devonlandrover how did you overcome the no vacuum issue on your series 3? i have a 109 2.25l petrol with disco axles but don't have any vaccum on engine:/

[@Devonlandrover]

@@alansamuel490 Hi, the vacuum take off is from the inlet manifold. There is a casting boss on the inlet runner of cyl 2 just ahead of the carb mounting. This is what they used on later servo models. I just drilled and tapped a hose tail fitting into it.

[@alansamuel490]

Okay, thanks. A friend did the same but was saying he was loosing brake power at idle in traffic

[@AlphaBravoV]

@@alansamuel490 You could also fit an electric vacuum pump and relay it off the brake light switch, so it's activated when you press the pedal.

[@HeinerStorch]

Did I get it right: In case of fitting Wolf wheels, I leave the spacer in the box? Are disc and caliber standard LR parts?

[@Devonlandrover]

Hi. The spacer is there to replicate the distance from the hub plate to the wheel knave plate face, that was taken up by the old drum. Wilst it may be possible to run without the spacer, it will mean a little less steering lock in use. My wolfs will hit the chassis on full turn soo imo the spacer helps. The calipers are std LR Early 90 fronts Mid 90'd Tdi defender 90 / disco - RRClassic rears. And the discs are late defender 110 rears.

[@fenby1976]

I like that this conversion is using mostly standard Land-Rover consumable parts, but machining the webs off the hubs concerns me as this is bound to weaken them. Perhaps they're still sufficiently strong but how would you know that? I'd suggest to anyone thinking of a disc brake conversion on an 88" with 10" drums to maybe just try 11" drums on the front and a brake pedal box, master cylinder and small type 50 servo from an early 110 first. You might find that set up works well enough for you. I've been running 11" drums with no servo and single circuit master cylinder for years. It was still terrible. It took over a year for the shoes to bed in and was pretty marginal even then. The the change to the pedal box, master cyl and servo, from a 110 has transformed the braking even with new brake shoes. I suspect that poor braking with drums has something to do with the move away from asbestos for the brake linings.

[@Devonlandrover]

HI, I'll try and run through you're comments and my thinking. The webs) Yep granted the webs have been machined off. It's quite a chunky lump of steel and you also then in slight addition bolt a disc to it, the hub and disc in my case are quite a snug fit. 11" fronts) Yup the 11" TLS setup is good as drum setups go. don't get me wrong i've seen a SWB (10 inch drums) with a 90 pedal box (ala type 50) and it stops really well. and IMHO well adjusted and setup drums do. Jem before was a bog standard drums. and I could get the front tyres to lock up or mostly a good healthy nose dive. The later series 3 swb went to the servo and TLS setup so there is a lot to be said for it being a worthy upgrade route for those owners looking to keep it drum braked, Or if you want more them find all the 6cyl stuff with the wider front shoes. So why didn't I stick with drums?) Well drum brakes I have found require a whole lot of constant fettling to keep in balance and full efficiency. Spend a day on the lanes: brake reset needed, or driving home and there is lot's of water on the road: brakes pull a lot to one side or the other. Now not to mention the anecdotal evidence of lots of others who have issues getting either the system bled and balanced. Modern day shoes are not as good as they used to be, and they require time to get them bed in and adjusted with a good contact patch in the drum. I could make a whole Vid on series drum quirks. LOL Either way the fit and forget of disc brakes have a lot of Pro's in my book. Shoes material) Asbestos in brake linings meant they were softer compound and so gave greater friction and bedded in sooner. The move away in my book to other sintered metallic compounds does mean they don't wear and bed in as quickly. This is also seen more often in Disc systems as the pads wear the discs which cause noise when new pads are put in as the pad sits on the higher ridge around the edge.

[@fenby1976]

@@Devonlandrover Were you able to confirm that the hubs are steel or could they be cast iron? I suppose you could argue that the hubs are designed to be strong enough for a 1 ton 109, so as standard were overkill for an 88" so are strong enough for an 88" with the webs machined off. Quite a few assumptions to make though. I don't think I'd do it if the hubs are cast iron as a cracked hub could be quite nasty on the road. At least if they are steel and they were overloaded they'd just bend and it be apparent that something was wrong, unlike cast iron which might just completely let go. I totally agree that disc brakes are lower maintenance and will have better stopping power and more consistent braking when wet. I won't deny the TLS drum systems are tricky to bleed either. I resorted to taking the shoes off and g-clamping the pistons in and pressurising the system with air in the reservoir. I didn't fit a PDWA valve so at least that makes life a bit easier with bleeding. The type 50 servo off a 110 is larger than the standard series servo. I think the large servo compensates for hard modern friction materials on brake shoes. I'm using Mintex brake shoes and have had no issues with bedding them in. As soon as I drove it the brakes felt as sharp as the brakes on my VW T4 van (which are discs all round).

[@Devonlandrover]

@@fenby1976 I 'Think' the hubs are cast iron given the roughness of the non machined surfaces, IMO they are bulky enough to deal with the loss of the webs. Coming from Land rover motorsport the stubs and axles bend, even chassis start to deform when given lots of abuse. I Can't say I've seen a hub break. Of course none have been subject to the webs being removed. Compared to a Def / Disco hub they are still look safe. If I was that concerned then to combat the logistics of having the hubs done D&D are having their own inhouse billet alloy hubs made. I'm not dodging the question but Bryan at D&D would be the best to ask about his choice to specify the hub modifications. Mintex are a good brand, they were my go to back in the day, again it's getting them parallel and the leading edges chamfered to give a good contact area then you get good brakes. on Forums all over there is lots of frustrated peeps who spend ages setting up drums. To me even as a step away from original having been spoilt with Discs on the rest of the landys then Discs win.

[@fenby1976]

@@Devonlandrover Maybe I'm overthinking the hub machining. Discs are the dream setup for me and many other series owners I'm sure. Good to see someone biting the bullet and actually doing it, rather than just giving up on leaf sprung Land-Rovers and going for a coiler.

[@ejparrott]

People have done disc brake conversions this way for decades, think we'd have heard if it was a weak point

[@mully89]

Thanks for sharing your experience of the conversion,what kind of tools are needed to machine to machine the hubs as im struggling to find a local shop that would take on this one off work and not sure how to explain it. Thanks in advance

[@Devonlandrover]

It is simple Lathe work. Each hub needs to be set up in the lathe and then the ribs on the back and a thin skim of the actual outside material taken off to allow the disc to sit concentrically over it. Next the hubs have to be drilled and tapped to accept the disc being bolted to them. There is a comprehensive diagram supplied with each kit. DDE do supply their own hubs now should you not have any luck. www.designdevelopmenteng.co.uk/shop/Land-Rover-Series-Disc-Brake-Hubs-p510319312

[@mully89]

@4WDSouthWest Thank you I didn't realise DDE have started selling them. I'm in a big city but finding a man with a lathe seems hard work, it's all big business shops who want a fortune for one offs! Cheers and good work thanks for vid's 👍

[@simoneady206]

Good video thanks.Can you confirm what callipers were used in this video?

[@Devonlandrover]

Hi the calipers for the front kit are Caliper LH - SEB500450 Caliper RH - SEB500440 The rear kit use: Caliper LH - SMC500240 Caliper RH - SMC500110

[@simoneady206]

@@Devonlandrover Thankyou

[@simoneady206]

@@Devonlandrover Also just wondering if the modified front disk pad is a unique part number only supplied by Design and Development? Regards Simon

[@Devonlandrover]

@@simoneady206 yes it is, standard size backing to fit the caliper but smaller pad fraction material area to match the contact area, just a higher grade friction material to make up the difference.

[@simoneady206]

@@Devonlandrover I am looking into the conversion, however is there any info on the brake booster mods to accommodate the disc conversion? Thanks

[@HeinerStorchennest1]

Great vid. For which reason did go for the DD ones?

[@Devonlandrover]

I went with DDE as it used mostly L R parts, and although costly it was a in my opinion money well spent. I liked the idea of both front and rear kits from the same manufacturer, and the only specialist part is the front pads. And with hindsight it is a fantastic improvement over drums, the stopping ability is modern car like. Putting disco / RR axles is a known route but it has its fiddly aspects and keeping the original axles not only I see as an originality plus point, keeps the insurance company happy too

[@HeinerStorchennest1]

@@Devonlandrover Thanks for the quick and helpful response. Some years ago, we swapped the 4 cyl petrol for a 200TDi Discovery engine into our 1984 Series 3 109 ex-mod. Due to the increase in power, we had to change the brakes, to keep the truck road legal. And as you mentioned, we considered to go for Discovery/ 110 or the 1ton series axle on the front. The coil-spring axles would have widened the track. I am not a fan of Defender arcs on a Series fender to cover the wheel. The are no 1 ton axles to get hold of at that time and even to get spareparts for these items is a nightmare. For example, you could buy the rh backplate for 50 €, but for the lh you search all over the world and find NOS one for 300€.

[@Devonlandrover]

@@HeinerStorchennest1 crazy right. But that is the most for you. As in previous posts the kit and then I used a series 3 servo pedal box with the servo, and then an early ninety master cylinder. It gives a good stopping effect. You might need to use the one-ten master cylinder.

[@HeinerStorchennest1]

@@Devonlandrover Good idea, I will check the next time, the brake master cyl. is due for exchange. My 109 ex-mod truck has the 2-circuit brake system, but the 90/110 master could be an further improvement. Hopefully, the outer dimensions will fit to the box. Thanks for the hint.

[@paulspeight6003]

Are there any contact details of where to purchase the kit thank you

[@Devonlandrover]

Hi front kits are here www.designdevelopmenteng.co.uk/shop/Land-Rover-Series-c115811254 the rear kits are in the same webshop. You'll be able to find them 👍

[@ianhardcastle9133]

Speak up

[@onetonlandrover]

Does this not necessitate the use of non-standard wheels?

[@Devonlandrover]

Hi. Yep sadly can't use standard SWB, LWB or One Ton versions. I have a set of wolfs off the Defender conveniently, So they will do for me. I did have a fancy for the Nakatanenga classic 8x16 but not sure if they will fit, and the cost is scary.

[@onetonlandrover]

Ah you answered it later on...

[@onetonlandrover]

@@Devonlandrover The 8x16 still cheaper than proper 6.5" rims. I'm not sure why a Wolf rim fits but not a standard rim though. 🤔

[@onetonlandrover]

On the subject of studs for Wolf rims, my 110 was built on Wolf rims and does *not* have longer studs.

[@Devonlandrover]

@@onetonlandrover Same as mine, They (JLR and possibly FVRDE after all the HD steel was originally a MOD fitment , But as you know SWEB used the 8 spoke as it is reputed the original steel was weak) just decided on upping the torque spec for the nuts. There is only a couple of threads short when done up. Somewhere on T'internet is the argument between the more intelligent than I about the in's and out's of thread based fasteners and the number of threads needed for adequate safety and nut retention.