Lands That Fell Off | Commander Clash Podcast 182

[@tygy3088]

32:11 Phil's look of utter disbelief had me rolling. Phil looked like he could've thrown hands at any point during Richard's rant to defend this card's honor

[@Lazydino59]

“No matter how hard a land falls off, it doesn’t die to farewell.” -Richard, probably

[@darkrexkigntstone8773]

Unless your a artifact land.😂

[@TheMagicRat933]

Goldfish crew: *Doesn’t mention Farewell the entire episode* Top voted comment: “Haha! Farewell living rent free in Richard’s head lol!”

[@iamnotcameron]

Let my friend tell you about the mental trauma from my turn 1 Swords on his Dryad Arbor last month.

[@Typhus2]

In this case it was Ruination instead.

[@koolaiddude7685894]

​@@TheMagicRat933 *Richard exists* Goldfish community: _"AHAHAHAHA ANOTHER L RICHARD TAKE"_ Lol shit is so weird

[@SaturnSix]

Otawara power crept is the most ragebait thing I’ve ever heard haha

[@bolosandninjarolls]

Literally the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. It's Richard though, so I've come to expect that from him.

[@Norgorber]

Somehow Richard managed to go on a "removal bad" tangent in the land episode, the man's unstoppable.

[@bolosandninjarolls]

@Norgorber You'd think that he'd love Otawara though, because at least it doesn't die to Farewell if you play it as a land lol

[@timbombadil4046]

If it's always 4 mana then the commander free spells aren't ever free. Refuse to believe Richard is that oblivious.

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

​@@timbombadil4046 bad comparison

[@scenariogamer]

I love how half this episode is one person mentioning "how this or that land fell off" and someone else going WOAH I SHOULD PLAY THAT!

[@thriftypsgr]

One persons trash is another persons treasure

[@mancubthescrub]

Yeah, wasn't the whole spirit of commander playing jank on someone's counter top? Good content, but click baity title for sure. Don't hate the player, hate the algorithm?

[@josuelservin]

​@@mancubthescrubknowledge doesn't invalidate the spirit, I'm fine with omitting good staples in my decks because I prefer to throw in cards with the art I like, or cut out "optimal" cards for the ones that suit the theme better. And if you want the theme of your deck to be jank, more power to you! Whatever is fun to you and your friends is valid commander. And lastly I don't see the clickbait you alluded to, they discussed lands they feel have "fallen off" and clearly showed it is a subjective matter, it was an interesting discussion and I find nothing deceptive in the content or title, please correct me if you feel otherwise.

[@Spirited_skiing]

That’s the joy of commander!

[@thriftypsgr]

@ I run a crack open in my Roxanne deck and my buddy keeps telling me I should cut it, I love the dumb card and it makes me happy everytime I get to blow up one of his enchantments with it

[@DylanHunter64]

Kinda surprised that nobody brought up Crim style decks regarding War Room and Locthwain. If you already have a good board state and are just leaving up counter magic or board protection and it never comes, then you just activate it on end step before your turn. You don't need to be in top-deck mode for it to be useful. Honestly, I feel like the average Richard deck that sits around doing 'nothing' for the first 6 turns of the game activating Treasure Map etc benefits the most from those lands.

[@justintolentino9222]

It's good that Crim hates green. Imagine Crim with Seedborn or Wilderness Reclamation. Add in your War Room and other mana sinks and you'll be swimming in value while still holding the board at gunpoint.

[@Alkhemia8]

@@justintolentino9222 oh god Evil Crim who splashes green in a control deck what a nightmare I don't think they really run Seedborn etc prob for the same reason they don't run Sun Titan to much of a staple

[@DylanHunter64]

@@justintolentino9222 Every time he plays green, he ends up crushing it's really pretty funny

[@CthulhuBut2FeetTall]

War room is a hero for eeking out card advantage when you don't need to cast things OR for smoothing out your hand when things go wrong. Sometimes you draw your deck in the wrong order and it's just another way to get out from under that for 1-2 color decks that aren't color intensive.

[@imaginarymatter]

Draw-go decks run card advantage and other proactive effects. If you don't have to use mana interacting with an opponent you still have better things to do than activate inefficient utility lands.

[@giovannishepard653]

Why does Richard hate going down a land for Strip Mine when he's the world's #1 believer in catch up ramp?

[@pidgeotroll]

24:00 with regards to running basic plains in a mono white deck, the more the Emeria.

[@drkatz1192]

One of my favorite things about this podcast is everytime Tomer makes a fantastic point it’s followed by silence - then “Anyways, let’s move on!” 😂 ☠️

[@EDZ1LLA]

53:25 The Richard-opinion brainworm burrows slightly deeper into my psyche. I can feel it taking over.

[@hanschristopherson8056]

Otawara? What is Richard smoking 😂

[@discoviolenza1984]

I'm old enough to remember when Richard and Seth initially trashed Arena of Glory, and Tomer was the only one high on the card. Also the only land out of the cycle of five they didn't talk about for MH3 tier list.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

The Black of one that Connives is freaking amazing when it goes off. If you run indestructible creatures you can easily connive through half of your deck after a board wipe.

[@trenchaus]

Seth and richard have mostly awful takes . Tomer, crim and phil mostly saves this podcast from being completely irrelevant

[@PalPlays]

Tomer if you really want people to run more basics, then basic land check everyone with Avatar of Growth, Collective Voyage, New Frontiers, Rootweaver Druid, Verdant Mastery, and Veteran Explorer. The group WILL run more basics when you start ramping way harder and faster than Open the Way while they're high and dry.

[@imaginarymatter]

I prefer the stick and run Ruination. From the Ashes and Wave of Vitriol if you are feeling somewhat gracious.

[@Thoughtmage100]

I just run Back To Basics, Blood Moon, and Magus of the Moon in my Niv-Mizzet deck.

[@thatepicwizardguy]

If you play red - blood moon effects EVERY SINGLE GAME

[@PalPlays]

@thatepicwizardguy Some of y'all want to be kicked outta your playgroup. Don't encourage basics by making people miserable. Encourage basics by making them jealous.

[@Thoughtmage100]

@@PalPlays My play groups do equally obnoxious things, so I don't really care.

[@imaginarymatter]

I still run Stripmine / Wasteland in white ramp decks. Not only do they get replaced by a tapped plains you can usually get them back with white's permanent reanimation effects and do it again!

[@Darkscotty76]

How did Richard not come into this comment? It's a way to activate catch-up ramp!

[@Dragonspeaker]

I would love to see the statics of how much the crew actually uses the ability of the utility lands they run. maybe something for a future stats episode

[@OGTahoe3]

After thinking about the comment of the week, i can see why their discussion go the way they do. Richards thought process is for a deck to be optimized (in some catagories). Such as always having a farewell at the table or always expecting to see removal for anything. Tomer has a mindset much closer to the average gamer. Wants power but has a budget and finds value in the cards that are good but not the best version of the card. Seth is the person that sits in the middle and likes power but doesnt have every best in slot card. Phil is a high power player that just likes doing splashy things, instead of doing an easy combo. And we all know Crim is a troll with high power knowledge.

[@geeknseek]

40:10 Seth, I think the cycle lands are still decent. The opportunity cost is VERY low in one and two color decks. Prevent flooding. Some decks just want permanents in their graveyards. And there are desert ones from Hour of Devastation if you want more targets for your Sand Scout.

[@MTGGoldfishCommander]

That's fair, I don't think they are horrible, but unless I have specific synergies (like cycling or land reanimation) I typically don't play them anymore. I imagine some day we'll get untapped cycling lands and they will be great.

[@Dunhilina]

​@MTGGoldfishCommander I was wondering where these ranked, mdfcs are normally praised and are 1-2 more mana than the effects on a card so I was wondering if just cycling for 1 mana was at least as good as them. Pretty sure they have dropped off a bit with the MH3 mdfc and Zendikar mythic cycle coming in untapped. Edit: Phil just made this point should have kept watching, good for the algorithm 🎉

[@Suhrvivor]

Entering tapped is such a downside I don't even play them in land decks, there's just better lands nowadays.

[@nathand6467]

@@MTGGoldfishCommander With Seth on this. Ran them all the time like 10 years ago, now basically never. Their use is pretty niche, even when having any land in the GY is good, or any draw trigger is good, they still dont seem good enough.

[@MentalCrusader]

At this point I firmly believe Richard is a master ragebaiter lol

[@BlackenSerpent]

One thing with Otawara is that it also is a way to remove a grand abolisher effect on the board since it is a land ability and not a spell, i feel like that works on a few other things as well.

[@lordBeerus467]

War room in mono color is great especially in mono color decks. Draw go is perfect if you dont need to respond to anything draw a card. Green has tons of extra mana for a few activations.

[@Lazydino59]

My mono green deck even plays arch of orazca because it’s that down bad for card draw in go-wide big mana

[@crawdaddy1234]

@@Lazydino59 I'm not saying you shouldn't run either of those cards (I play them in my Duel Commander decks, too). But a couple/few cards that people have forgotten about: Armorcraft Judge (specific to +1/+1 counters decks) Regal Behemoth Skullmulcher Disciple of Freyalise Momentous Fall Life's Legacy Garruk, Primal Hunter Any card that allows you to play cards from the top of your deck (e.g., Garruk's Horde)

[@Lazydino59]

@ frfr I agree and do play them in other decks. A lot you listed are power-specific however. Outside of maybe 3-5 draw spells for going wide with 1/1’s or 2/2’s, you quickly hit a wall.

[@crawdaddy1234]

@ The issue I have with a lot of the cards that care more about go-wide is that they're non-creatures that cost five or more mana or they require you to have creatures to cast (e.g., Beast Whisperer). That's why I suggested Garruk's Horde, etc. If you haven't ever used Regal Behemoth, it is crazy how good that card can be. Remember that it can be tutored with Chord of Calling at the end of your opponent's turn. Or if you get Wrathed, Caller of the Claw is a HOUUUUSE! It's funny to get Wrathed, cast Caller of the Claw into Regal Behemoth for eight cards on top of having 27 power in play. lol

[@Lazydino59]

@ regal behemoth is a good idea! My green deck is shaman tribal so it’s definitely a bit of a unique situation. I usually can have 20+ mana but converting it into power is difficult sometimes (other than craterhoof). Caller of the claw seems too niche tbh I’d rather just have heroic intervention, and even then 10 2/2’s might not close out a game (assuming it isn’t an exile wipe)

[@jackalvonstone250]

Better not be talking down on my Hall of The Bandit Lord

[@jackalvonstone250]

Whew. Safe

[@Quarrenn17]

What about Boseiju, Who Shelters All?

[@fergusofdalibor4264]

Its crazy to me that seth is calling a land that produces colored mana "no value" when compared to a land that makes colorless, or a land that comes into play tapped some percentage of the time. The value is that you can just play it without any strings attached, and make colored mana. That's what a basic is, people!

[@coldtruth4u]

24:08 how does Richard talk without his lips moving lol

[@carlshimota1022]

33:30 Richard’s high again.

[@HalfFang]

Castle lochwain and warroom are things i would keep around if i would need to hold up interaction but nothing needed to be interacted with so i use that land to draw. Something that allows you to use mana somewhere if you use allocated to intaction that doesn't need to be used Or you planned to do something, board gets wiped, before your turn you have extra mana.

[@crissaegrim2697]

I super hard disagree about the Castle Locthwain hate. . The point of the card is that it has upside and it can be done at instant speed. Black tends to do controlly things so if you diont need to remove the thing before it goes around the table and you only have 1-3 cards in hand it sure beats having a swamp instead and taking 0 game actions.

[@davidsouls7778]

This! Yes it’s not that good in mono black cause of cabal coffers BUT in two color combination where you don’t play coffers castle of locthwain is an Auto include

[@bartoffer]

You know how staples like Tprot, Rhystic, or DT mean that you're changing around maybe 5 cards total after you shove them all in? Turns out if you throw Ancient Tomb, Urborg-Coffers, Boseiju, etc into every deck's landbase as a default, you run into the same issue. A season where you get to use each nonbasic card exactly once would drive this home.

[@lVideoWatcherl]

This is actually a great idea!

[@kaszael]

1:03:20 Phil, we do kinda have a Spelunking creature in Archelos, Lagoon Mystic!

[@TargetSniper365]

Richard is a clown lmao. Otawara is one of the most insane utility land effects ever. Dude hates spot removal so much and now hates on a land that is an uncounterable bounce.

[@laughingbandit33]

I wish the tribe would speak on Richard. I’m sure they keep him around for the lols.

[@Xynic.7391]

@@laughingbandit33richard owns the company, he's the one keeping THEM around 😂

[@laughingbandit33]

@ he’s a real vibe.

[@isaabd1334]

Love Richard, fun to see someone that plays differently then edhrec top 100. (Commenting because that your comment is negativ af)

[@avall0nNn1992]

​@@isaabd1334 playing something spicy is totally fine. Not recognizing that Otawara is one of the best lands ever because it either is an untapped land or a bouncespell that can only be countered by stifle effects is something different. He obviously does this for interaction with the video and it works. It is still a cheap trick though.

[@justintolentino9222]

The card draw lands are for Draw-Go decks, especially those with Mana Advantage or reactive Abilities built-in. For example, in my Wolverine deck, Bonder's Enclave is an effective Mana Sink since I'm running Seedborn Muse anyway. If I don't need the mana to Fight, Protect Wolverine, or activate Regenerate, then the excess mana just goes to card draw.

[@jlbrooks74]

I think they need to start playing with their card count in hand somehow displayed (for the viewers to see card count) because there has got to be some wild mis remembering going on to say they ALWAYS have so many cards in hand that additional draw is not playable any longer. Or maybe the only episode they remember is the one where the goal was to draw 100 😅

[@imaginarymatter]

The non-Arena of Glory haste lands have the benefit that they can give haste of subsequent turns. If you're playing an aggro deck and you want to haste in multiple creatures across different turns that is a significant tradeoff.

[@Lazydino59]

I also ran into a unique(ish) situation where I wanted to give a token haste and arena can’t do that (and the other ones can also give opponents creatures haste iirc)

[@danpearman270]

They also have the advantage of not costing over $18 for a single copy...

[@tk421eatmyshorts]

@@danpearman270This is the exact reason I run Hanweir Battlement. I got it in the prerelease, so it’s a very budget option for me

[@2ndLastStarfighter]

I'm going to pickup a Flamekin Village after watching this video! 😂

[@Hurtishappy]

I would love an update episode. Most don’t really need a whole new episode, but like ‘rating duel lands’ you can talk about the new ones and rank them, or ‘best ramp not in green’ and just spend a few minutes updating with cards that have come out since

[@pedrolopesdeaquino]

Maybe they could get a bunch of these and do an episode of updates

[@fakename1685]

Wow I can't believe it's been four years already. Glad to have you Phil!

[@SpringDryad]

Richard who rarely plays creatures of course doesn't understand how the Kamigawa channel lands cost less with legendaries on the field lol

[@TheSpunYarn]

I think Emeria is a true buildaround as opposed to a toss-it-in utility land. W+ or GW+ decks built around Emeria are cool and powerful, imo.

[@crawdaddy1234]

35:52 Another benefit of Otawara and Boseiju, et. al. is that they don't trigger cards like Esper Sentinel or Rhystic Study or Trouble in Pairs, etc.

[@Thoughtmage100]

And they can get you out of otherwise unbeatable locks and stacks pieces.

[@JonReid01]

The value of a sac land is you protect your commander from getting locked out with targeted spells like darksteel mutation. You just sac it so it goes to the command zone.

[@aselbst]

I was idly goldfishing my Goreclaw deck while listening to this, and activated War Room just before the discussion of it. That ​deck has an absurd amount of draw. It's a creature storm style deck that aims to make 30+ mana and draw enough to dump the deck on the table with haste by turn 6-7. And yet there are times I want to activate War Room. I just can't fit a 16th or 17th card draw spell in the deck, and having the ability to draw on a land means that I can safely keep more hands that have creatures and ramp, but no other draw. I did cut Bonder's Enclave because this deck in particular runs into colored mana limitations (since my commander is a generic cost reducer), but I've activated War Room often enough that I'm always tempted to put the second copy back in.

[@dylanortego4655]

Another week of Richard making me feel like an insane person

[@crawdaddy1234]

10:20 Phil, "Mono-black needs swamps more than other colors." This is true considering mono-white does not need or want swamps nor does mono-blue. lol *Yes, I know what he meant, but it's funny how he worded it.

[@gadischneider9231]

This is such a redditor comment LOL

[@Spotifist]

I hope they talk about Branch of Vitu-Ghazi, feels like a Richard card.

[@King-fo3kj]

high market used to be great commander protection back in like 2011-2015 when your commander could be tucked into your deck. It may have just been the people i played with but i remember it being a good counter for gilded drake stealing your commander as well

[@TrashcanActual]

What will we do not having Crim present to tell us about how he broke some obscure utility land from 15 years ago and how it fits perfectly into every mill strategy?

[@thomasaucoin8885]

I run the "sacrifice a creature lands" in decks that can utilize graveyards as anti-exile tech, not as a way to win.

[@Driftbloondream]

Also good tech against darksteel mutation and the like

[@kyleeversfield8276]

Flamekin Village and the other haste lands have one advantage over Arena, and that is tokens or creature that entered via reanimaition. As Arena require you cast the creatures the other lands target and those other lands do not.

[@itheruler2157]

Seth saying in the other podcast land tutoring is not against the singelton rule because its ristricted to one card type is so hypocritical when they allways talk about how lands became so overpowered

[@MTGGoldfishCommander]

You aren't wrong, it probably is hypocritical (I think I mentioned that on the podcast too, lol).

[@itheruler2157]

Yes, you did. 😉 I wrote my comment kind of as a confirmation to that. But i was not good at making that clear

[@benjamingerry1752]

Apparently richard cant get 2 legendary creatures on board?

[@timbombadil4046]

Those free commander spells are sadly never free for him.

[@everyonesfavorite8238]

Phil cast = best cast

[@thomasaucoin8885]

Demolition feild is going down 2 mana once where stripmine is going down 1 mana forever i think its an easy swap.

[@thriftypsgr]

6:31 when you need a card, it is amazing. They are desperation lands. Also adding more card draw doesn’t always work. I have 17 pieces of card draw/advantage in my Roxanne deck and have not drawn a single card draw piece expect for my war room

[@ajellis3914]

If they disparage Myriad Landscape, I’m going to scream

[@siltygaming5067]

Wont even be mentioned because nobody played that even in the past 😂😂

[@ajellis3914]

⁠@@siltygaming5067 I love it! It’s a decent enough rate, somewhat color fixes you, and the more I play commander the more I don’t want to present that big of a threat. Skyshroud claim gets you killed, this doesn’t. Ramping out with Myriad landscape is extremely under the radar, and that’s why I like it.

[@TheForeverRanger]

Or any of the basic fetch's for that matter. I run as many basic fetch's as I can in my Mindskinner deck since I have both mill Crab's in there.

[@danhick3150]

​@@ajellis3914myriad landscape has never been good in "higher powers" unfortunately. I played it a bunch when I was first getting into commander since I had a 50$ budget for most of my decks so I understand why people like it. But if we look at it objectively it's 2 turns a land drop and 4 mana to ramp 2 tapped lands. I also get a hint you may be playing at a lower power level if your getting killed for skyshroud claim. Great budget option (atleast when I last played it) and is dominant at lower powerlevels since boardwipes are pretty much the best thing to be doing at around a 6 or a 7.

[@Lazydino59]

I play it in my mono blue deck but it’s too slow for anything else tbh. ETB tap plus lands ETB tapped is burnished hart levels of inefficiency. You can’t double time walk yourself in 2025 magic.

[@totakekeslider3835]

The point of the card draw lands is if you’re in a desperate situation or in top deck mode, they give you that extra little push to help you dig for something if you really need it. They love Farewell, right? Well sometimes that happens and you’ve got nothing, lol. Bonders’ Enclave has come in clutch a number of times for me.

[@onlyRicky_x]

I wonder if tomer's real reason for not running strip mine is because he gets war flashbacks when locking at it

[@certified_casual]

Fetchable bounces for crab milling would be so fun :)

[@CthulhuBut2FeetTall]

If you want to break your neck with hot take whiplash go watch Richard's reasoning when he evaluates MDFCs. Edit: Richard pointing out that spot removal blows out a card is really, really funny to me.

[@forloveofthepage2361]

No one ever rates a deck lower than a 5. Meaning half the scale is worthless. We usually pick decks based on Precon, Trashpile, Theme, and competative (not cedh), and No holds barred. It has worked really well for us. Sometimes a theme deck is a bit much, but usually they win fast or become the archenemy.

[@Lazydino59]

Nobody ever does but tbh a lot of them should 😂 I’ve seen so many 30 land dragon piles that don’t play a spell all game and complain about people playing “cEDH”.

[@process1321]

War room feels pretty great in mono red storm where you are way more restricted on card draw when storming versus the amount of mana urabrask/birgi etc can generate

[@evandill]

One place I would really defend the cycling lands, especially the 1 mana cyclers, is any deck that draws a lot of cards all at once. If you draw 5, and say 2+ of those cards are lands, being able to cycle those lands immediately into more cards that you're interested in keeping matters, but if your deck draws say 4 extra cards one at a time, the value proposition goes way down. Also, for people who run a lot of bounce lands imagine playing these and bouncing them back to cycle them. I think they are worth the slot, but only if you already are drawing like a bunch of cards and just need to make sure those cards do things. They're card filtering rather than strictly card draw.

[@user-if1gh4xl5h]

So accoring to Richard: Otawara: 4 mana bounce overcosted Talon Gates: 4 mana ramp a-ok

[@terraqueo89]

I think the deck you always want to have your High Market in play is in Yuriko. Not that Lazotep Quarry is worse but having redundancy in a deck like that is key.

[@henrybartholomew5383]

I do really appreciate the podcast revisiting earlier topics, there have been so many sets in the time you guys have been doing this that a lot of your earlier episodes are now outdated. You should definitely go back and revisit your card draw, spot removal, and maybe dual land lists

[@shogun452]

It depends on your meta, but the “sacrifice a creature” lands are super important if you play against threaten style decks. Not as good as homeward path, but can save you in a pinch, or keep eyes off your stuff.

[@PalPlays]

I run Otawara in Marchesa, the Black Rose, because any source of disruption against graveyard hate that doesn't warp the deck is a MUST.

[@danikahicks9896]

Why i run as many cycling lands as I can: first off, I hit my land drops; but I *also* I try to hold up mana for interaction... and sometimes nothing worth countering or bouncing happens. Cycling away a land on the end step of the person's turn before I go let's me look deeper without going shields down until the last possible second after most possible threats have passed.

[@MisterAnimeFreak]

War Room and Locthwain are great in control/politic decks and big mana decks, where you run empty fast. I run Slayers Stronghold in a bunch of decks, because the buff come up more often than you think + it can even mess with your opponents blockers (a 5/5 runs into a player with only a 3/3 and I buff for a trade). Emeria is weird. You can build around it and enable it quite easily, but you have to be creature focused for it to be worth it. Wins me games to this day High Market is still an instand speed sac outlet and the lifegain can come up in weird ways. Still worth it for redundancy - years ago it was another way of preventing my commander getting tucked or stolen - remember the tuck rule? Otawara is great. I usually say it's 3 mana, but it can be protection and removal if you need it - that's the key IF you need it. The Cycling Lands are better than you think, but you need to have a plan, like abusing draw triggers or lands. Stip Mine is still a good card, but I prefer other cards that can get me more than just a single land destruction. Obviously broken in land decks, where you can eat all the lands. Littjara is weird. I've seen it do some great things tho. Getting a good etb effect from your land can win you the game.

[@blurose]

Demolition Field and Volatile Fault rule

[@DrakeAMV]

Tomer is the only one who plays a relatable mana base.

[@alasanof]

Even if these lands fell out of favor, they still trigger landfall.

[@tajsdiscord5952]

i wish richard would go back and rewatch these videos to see all his nonsensical points and the times he contradicts himself. its gotta be engagement bait and if it is, hats off to you man its working

[@robpa425]

Strip mine is scuffed because the decks that abuse lands the most can recur them or even benefit from you destroying them and then replaying them. A card like Sowing Mycospawn is the answer we need.

[@ShotensGaming]

when High Market appeared I was resleeving my Atla Dino deck into some fresh new sleeves and had that card right infront of me and was like "Phil, nah this is still a great card! Sac'ing eggs for no real cost is great on a land" Then you reminded me of Lazotep and Fountainport. Yeah, I added those to the buylist lol

[@giovannishepard653]

The most powerful thing about Otawara is that channel isn't a spell. I've seen so many combo players confident with their Swan Song of Pact of Negation in hand just get absolutely bodied by Otawara or Moonsnare Prototype. I was originally a hater because I would never want to pay 4 mana for Unsummon but the built in counterspell evasion I'm actually considering running it now.

[@mbstevens319]

I want Phil's Necrobloom deck list. Sounds like a a good time.

[@camerongrey3643]

“Am I going to pay 4 mana to cast a bounce spell??” No, you’re going to pay 1-4 mana (often on the lower end of that) to play a bounce effect that dodges most interaction, and you can just as easily play it as an untapped, painless land. What are you afraid of, missing out on that extra 1 mana from high tide?

[@quack2299]

otawara is GOATED bounce your one ring oh yeah baby

[@midnalight6419]

Yeah Rip the mono color cycling lands. I used to love them but forgotten cave is not good enough anymore. Otawara, however, is wild to say it's fallen off. Card is imaculate in cedh and it is almost just better than sink into stupor because it gets cheaper thanks to legends.

[@Suhrvivor]

The number of legendaries per deck is going up so Otowara gets cheaper to activate every new set.

[@crss29]

I play War Room and Bonders' Enclave in my Thoralf deck. And I consider it a sign of a good hand when I get either of them in my starting 7.

[@STS-qi1qy]

'No one should run targeted removal' 'But if they remove the target you've wasted the mana and land....' I just really wish the argument was consistent.

[@DenseMeat]

I run a bunch of the Colourless draw lands in my Eldrazi deck, generally just on the rare chance i have that spare mana after a turn rotation. Taps for colourless anyways just swapped a wastes for it.

[@Crazy_Logic]

War room is just a better wastes. Every colourless should run it!

[@TinyLegs15243]

war room is for desperation drawing when you are going to die or in draw go decks. Like it is pretty straightforward.

[@shayneweyker]

Colorless decks with lots of artifact ramp can pay War Room's cost easier. Locthwain is bad because mono black decks want to power up their Coffers with swamps in play. Unless that mono-B deck is making all players discard their hands regularly. Flamekin Village gets better with elementals/changelings and decks that have attack triggers and combat damage triggers. Emeria, the Sky Ruin could have value in Green/White landfall/land-ramp decks that don't play catch-up ramp. But mostly you need to be playing in a very low-power pod so it has time to do its thing. Talon Gates is better at phasing your own creature on your main phase to protect against sorcery-speed removal. Otawara is better at disrupting opponents and when used with lots of flash-instant spells. The single color cycling lands are also great with top-of-deck reveal/tutors/surveil/scry when you know what's on top of you library and want that card now. If you have Opposition Agent out (or any card that prevents/limits/punishes opponents searching libraries) then having a removal effect/spell that says opponents searches their library for a basic is much better.

[@h2muller]

I agree with most of the lands, I only run the cycle lands on my astral slide necrobloom deck because I can basically recur them indefinitely… I have shifting woodland in any deck that has green on it because the opportunity cost is so low. I am also not into MDFCs too much, I’ve come to learn that those don’t take a land slot, but rather a spell slot to increase land consistency

[@lobbynotlob]

"low to medium casual players don't run farewell" aside from the multiple precons the card is in, sure

[@danikahicks9896]

AT RICHARD: keep Otawara, and slot in Realm Walker. Everybody laughs when I play this card. But for 1 mana it turns on my High Tide, and color fixes all the other utility lands I play.

[@ryantomczak2248]

I play hardly any utility lands anymore except for Boseiju and Otawara. I do not even play the MDFCs, including the MH3 ones. I used to run Valakut Awakening in all my red decks and Bala Ged Recovery in all my green decks, but I have not run them in about a year now. In my cEDH decks I still run Emergence Zone and sometimes Talon Gates, alongside Boseiju and Otawara. I also run Strip Mine in my tournament deck as there are so many good hits at that level of play.

[@surfinggarchomp2820]

why?

[@ryantomczak2248]

@ In the case of MDFCs, they are over costed for their effect. I like to keep the mana curve low. As far as the other utility lands, I have never found much use for them. What utility lands do you normally play in your decks?

[@WitStop]

I would really like them to make mono-color bounce lands. Could literally be the exact same as the current cycle but just taps for 2 of one color. I suppose it would immediately phase out Arid Archway and Guildless Commons in most decks but man it would be nice

[@evandill]

HOO BOY I HAVE OPINONS ON TARGETED LAND HATE! I run 3 pieces of targeted land hate in every single deck. Strip Mine or Field of Ruin are usually generic number 3, but Demolition Field and Volatile Fault are number 1 and 2 for the exact reason of you don't go down a mana (land in the case of demolition field and a treasure in the case of Volatile fault.) There are so many non basic lands that are worth blowing up that I want to see at least one every game. Coffers is the main one, but I've blown up bounce lands, I've blown up an Urborg, or Ojer Axonil as a land, I've even blown up a rogue's passage, or someone's source of a color. It's partially about the utility, if you are setting people back mana I justify that as I'm setting back someone more than one mana especially if I'm replacing it with another land. I don't go absolutely bananas on land hate (though I often feel like I do) but there has not been a game where someone has a land that I don't want to blow up at least a little bit. If I can trade 1 or even 3 mana to deny them an advantage I know I'm not prepared to deal with otherwise, I'm down, and the opportunity cost is so low. I have all game for this little innocuous land to pay off where as the red sorcery I don't want to miss the chance if I play the land early and someone deploys their Three Tree City later.

[@kattennan1299]

I still play War Room in one deck, but that's my colourless deck. In that particular case it has less competition and its lack of coloured mana isn't a downside (and the life loss is even negated), so it's a low opportunity cost addition. Even then I don't actually activate it often though, rarely have the mana to spare and an empty hand unless I'm facing something like a discard deck. I just haven't removed it yet because I don't have something better for the slot that isn't already in the deck.

[@Ghostmage619]

I think fetchable bounces wouldn’t be broken if they work similar to the Karoo cycle of bounce lands. Imagine Karoo, but it has the land type plains, taps for 2 white mana, but you need to return an untapped plains to your hand. I don’t think that would be broken if they

[@KerDogg]

That comment of the week sums up my feelings exactly. Also what I need to send to my buddy who has started playing higher power level than I usually enjoy playing at. I do have 1-2 decks I can use with him though

[@jacobalbert2603]

You need sac outlets for targeted exile effects like path and swords

[@Darkscotty76]

Just hear me out, Celestial Dawn with Emeria, the Sky Ruin. You can run heliod's hall of generosity as a back up plan and guess what, it will also count as a plains

[@CookieKing-xf4lx]

YO RICHARD IS NOT JOKING ABOUT LAND RAMP IN NON GREEN DECKS!!! EVER SINCE I DROPPED MY LAND ROCKS AND WENT FULL OBSCURE LAND RAMP, I HAVE NEVER BEEN MANA STARVED!! THAT'S IN AN IZZET DECK BTW.

[@crawdaddy1234]

My perspective is a bit skewed, as I mostly play Duel Commander (1v1), which plays more like Legacy Cube. Cards like War Room in a mono-color deck are actually still very good as you are more likely to run out of cards in hand by turn five.

[@shauntoochaos235]

Tomer comparing the lands that draw a card for 4 and the cycling lands indicates a misunderstanding of what the lands on the battlefield do. They don't draw a card they effectively cast divination on a stick as you go up one card. You don't lose a land drop nor are they tapped. They aren't great but the cost is so low. The cycle lands are tapped don't go up a cars aren't a land any more when you use them they are so bad.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

1:03:05 “Vigorous Farming” Mentioned! ….kinda. I agree Phil! Where is our Spelunking on legs?

[@isidoreaerys8745]

Vigorous Farming from Bloomburrow Alchemy is one of the strongest Ramp spells ever made. You get a cumulative +1 green mana for every turn it’s on the board. Counterintuitively though it DOES NOT play well with fetches or any land that searches. Nothing worse than top decking a purple texted Windswept Heath that says “When you tap this land for mana add an additional Green mana ( x5 )” on it.

[@tajsdiscord5952]

richard might be criminally insane

[@NerdHerder545]

If you buy into the idea that the player who spends the most mana has a better chance to win, do you guys feel that a lot of these utility lands get better in draw go control style shells? Simply because in the event that you don’t need to use interaction during the turn cycle you still have the ability to spend mana to meaningfully impact the game, even if it is less efficient?

[@ms.sysbit5511]

Castle Loctwain is insanely powerful in my discard deck. It’s also an untapped colored source. The upside is so high considering the barely existent downside. I wouldn’t toss it in willy nilly but in a low color black deck, it certainly works. War Room I am less high on because colorless land but it still has homes.