Landscape photography - struggling with a composition

[@danbuchman7497]

Please continue to share your thoughts on decision making process. There isn’t another channel that goes into the detail that you do. You are filling a huge void and I for one certainly appreciate it.

[@cdl0]

Agreed!

[@SteveONions]

I’ll keep talking - just not on the next video 😀

[@mikejankowski6321]

@@SteveONions Your voice is calm, tempered, and soothing. Your accent is pleasing to follow. What you say has wisdom and makes sense. Steve, the talking is fine.

[@JasonArcherPhoto]

You mentioned that you may not talk as much in your next video. I hope you do talk! It's nice to hear your thought process as you work through crafting a shot. :)

[@cdl0]

Good comment: I agree!

[@SteveONions]

I’m totally silent in the next episode 😊

[@marcp.1752]

Way appreciated, to hear your thoughts about your picture taking process and composition, Steve.

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Marc.

[@greggreaves1727]

don't ever worry about talking too much - I think a lot of people watch to follow your process. Great vid

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Greg 👍

[@AliasJimWirth]

I enjoyed following you through this video and taking in your comments and thoughts. Thanks, Steve.

[@SteveONions]

Thank you James.

[@johncrow7878]

This video has been great. I like your "brain dump" as you go through the process of exposing the film and planning the development. I would love to see a follow up of this in the darkroom as you make the final decisions about how to process the film and then the printing of the final photo. Keep on posting, I'm relearning a so much. Thanks.

[@SteveONions]

Thanks John. I have some darkroom footage following another woodland shoot soon but it is a pain to record. If I get a really good image I’ll probably dedicate a video to that session but only it is is a really good shot.

[@cheeseblog]

I preferred the composition of the first image I think you said taken a year ago. I love your philosophy on photography. This is a newly found channel for me and have returned many times. Could be you are my new teacher/guru. Thank you very much.

[@SteveONions]

Glad you liked it 😊

[@phillipP8848]

Enjoyable as ever Steve. Thanks.

[@erichstocker4173]

I also find the earlier composition of the tree to be more appealing than the one taken in this video. I appreciate you discussing the reciprocity approach that you used. I had been wondering why you didn't mention it during the scene when you were taking the shot.

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Erich.

[@relaques666]

God I love the depth behind your process of photographing. Makes me wanna get out and take a few juicy shots myself!

[@SteveONions]

Glad to get you off the sofa 😀

[@keithpeeples3565]

As always Steve, thought provoking and informative. Sometimes the near landscape is more difficult than the grand Vista. It's great you are helping new photographers learn about film. I think it's important to remind them that B&W film records only brightness and reflectance of light from subjects. The classic example being the brightness of blue sky and white clouds is the same and without a filter the clouds will almost disappear in the photograph . I like the way the red filter darkens a blue sky and makes the white clouds really pop. I'll never claim to be an expert on photography, however over the last 40 years I've never shot a B&W landscape without a yellow or red filter.

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Keith, I agree that landscapes will nearly always benefit from some form of filtration.

[@jasongold6751]

A very good learning video! So many cannot "see" a photo. use of phone-camera a great idea. I am with much experience and a natural "seeing" of images. Great work, esp. different filters.

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Jason.

[@marcp.1752]

A new video finally, well made! It's being half past midnight, and watching it. I struggle also with the way, to find the best compositon, when accidently spotting something interesting to make a picture. Like Edward Weston said "Composition is the strongest way of seeing".

[@RichardMaguire110]

Thank you, there is something interesting and fulfilling about working at the same subject time and time again, there is always more.

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Richard.

[@steventaylor1649]

I learn something from every video Steve - cheers

[@azfactor7875]

Thanks for sharing your extensive thoughts regarding your decision-making process. There is much to be learned from taking so much time and being so wonderfully intentional. I, too, prefer the composition of the previous outing, but your efforts upon returning were certainly rewarded. For the second composition on this day, the image seems to be more about the bridge and path than the tree. My eye is pulled in and along the trail and doesn't tend to linger on the tree. Also, very glad to that you opted to use the yellow and green filters. It always helps to see direct comparisons like that, especially with the rarely used green one.

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Bob, I’m hoping that on my next trip there is a lot more vegetation to change the scene and my options. I still think the 1:1 format is best but can’t rule out 35mm to give me more options, possibly a lot closer with a very wideangle lens.

[@azfactor7875]

I like the idea of revisiting this with a wide angle. I suspect that would greatly increase your options.

[@Sombre666]

Yet another intuitive and inspiring video.As a novice with a lot to learn where film photography is concerned, I really enjoy the explanations with regards to the technical aspects of your videos. Do you think you could possibly therefore make a video explaining in greater detail how you go about using the zone system, and how you know which zone to place your highlights and shadows into. Please keep making these inspiring images.

[@SteveONions]

Hi John, glad you enjoy the videos. I don’t actually use the zone system, just some of the terminology. With my use of Multigrade papers in the darkroom or indeed a hybrid workflow it isn’t so important. What is important is to ensure an understanding of scene and what to meter for. I will nearly always allow generous exposure of the shadow areas, without this most landscapes will look coarse and unconvincing.

[@peterdadson7713]

Another interesting and useful video Steve, thanks!

[@SteveONions]

You’re welcome Peter.

[@kangsun4636]

What app did you use for pre-viewing those scenes? That seems like a very convenient way of previewing before getting the gears out. Thanks.

[@SteveONions]

It’s called Mark II Artists Viewfinder Kang.

[@markglore7196]

Your knowledge astounds me sir!

[@SteveONions]

😊 thank you.

[@lensman5762]

A brilliant, thoughtful and analytical approach to photography. Trigger happy digital shooters should take note. I wonder if a high contrast film such as Pan F or Rollei Retro 80s , or even TMY 400 pushed to 1600 would have opened up other possibilities. The other emulsion that would give a very different rendering is the Fuji Acros 100, with its characteristic dip in the green/cyan region of the spectrum. The images are quite lovely TBH, and thank you.

[@SteveONions]

I think I would have struggled with a slower speed film and normal development, probably too much contrast. It would have been a more dramatic image for sure but I like the open shadows and glow I get from the likes of HP5+. Now had it been an open scene with flat light the films you mention would have lifted the image considerably, Retro 80s being particularly contrasty.

[@Vincent780320]

Please make a video about your scanning method.It will be very interesting. Very nice video as always.

[@SteveONions]

Perhaps one day Vincent when I’ve got it totally sorted - every time I’m settle on a process something changes or gets updated and ruins it (less of a problem with the darkroom).

[@raybeaumont7670]

Cheers Steve - another interesting chat and filter comparison. I carry the things but very seldom actually use them. The scene has to be screaming for a filter before I dig 'em out. Yellow, Orange and Green in my bag - I reckon the Orange sees most use simply to add tone to the sky, and anything else with a bit of blue on it. All the best.

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Ray, the differences are more subtle than we’re often led to believe.

[@Paul9]

I run past this tree almost every weekend and always think I need to return, next Misty morning I’m going to make the effort. I do wish the bridge was still there but the logs are still nice. I think I favour the side with the sweep. Really enjoyed the video as always, the sounds of the camera mechanism add to the enjoyment.

[@SteveONions]

Hey Paul, it’s my tree, I’m going to get a plaque made up for it so start finding another route through the back end of the forest 😀

[@runninblue9415]

As someone who takes hundreds on each trip (street) it's fascinating watching someone else take so long to take A picture. Of A tree. Really interesting thanks 👍

[@SteveONions]

Thank you.

[@mikejankowski6321]

Steve doesn't have to watch out for the decisive moment when the tree jumps a puddle, so he can invest lots of time to find the decisive composition.

[@georgfritz]

It's amazing how you get so much out of one subject. Well done

[@SteveONions]

I’m not finished yet 😀

[@trevorsneath4665]

Agreed. That first photo is a better comp.

[@DEEPDIVERever]

Everyone has their own "enchanted tree".)

[@hachewie]

Yes indeed. I love dead trees. My favourite was chopped down last year. 😭

[@SteveONions]

😮 one of mine collapsed last year.

[@hachewie]

@@SteveONions That’s heartbreaking.

[@kenblair2538]

Great video, Steve. I'm going to have to start using more filter. too. I like the yellow. Say, what is the viewing app, you referenced ? And does it work with both medium & 4x5 lenses ? Thank you. Ken B.

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Ken. The app is called the MKII Artists Viewfinder and it can be setup to mimick any camera format and lens.

[@kenblair2538]

@@SteveONions Great and thank you. I usually scout a subject ahead of , dragging gear. Last trip , went with a 120mm (medium format) , to photograph an old window, and standing on a ledge, as my wife was yelling at me. Should have had a 65mm. Ken B

[@kenblair2538]

@@SteveONions oh, it's for iPhone. But I found a similar app for Android. Thanks. Ken B

[@thevalleywalker]

An interesting episode Steve & although you mention chattering on I quite liked listening to your "thought process" on taking the shot. I'll be honest composition althouygh an important process in the taking of an image it doesn't bother me too much & I woudn;t certainly take the amount of time you have on this one scene. This is probably due to me not being a film shooter where taking an image is a well thought out process - and yes I suppose digital does make one lazy in that respect. Don't get me wrong I will of course make "that scene" I was initially drawn to into a balanced image to the best of my ability but when taking a scene I probably spend as much time thinking abt the light. The yellow filter images without any manipulation looked the best on the screen as we saw them I thought. All in all a nice bit of breakfast viewing for me. Btw, I had a few days away with the wife last week, a couple of nights in Chester followed by 3 nights in Porthmadog. The camera came but it wasn't about photography so much although I did get to spend an hour or so at Delamere - a place I have wanted to visit after watching your videos over the past couple of years - I felt I needed a bit of inside info from the bits I saw of it..lol. I should have hired out the local expert methinks. atb Al;

[@SteveONions]

I’m a bit lazy with digital compositions too Alan, the bigger the format the slower I go. As for Delamere it’s 99% boring conifers with just a few worthy spots worth photographing 😀

[@carltanner9065]

That's a problem I find too, Sometimes you see a subject and it just doesn't seem to want to play, no matter how much you try to make it "look right". Went out this morning with a film camera instead of digital and down at my usual haunt. Not sure how some of the pics will turn out as the nerves were playing up and I felt a little unsettled (got nerve damage in my neck and arms), so I was shakier than normal. Didn't take a tripod, which is what I probably should've done, but that's water under the bridge :D Went through 2 rolls of film so hopefully I got some good ones in the mix!!

[@SteveONions]

I hope the shoot turned out well Carl and the images don’t have too much movement. I often leave the tripod at home when shooting 35mm but I’m figuring out a way to easily carry a lightweight one as it opens up all sorts of possibilities.

[@carltanner9065]

I've got a fairly lightweight one, plus one of those little Manfrotto mini tripods that I can take out with me, if I need to. I can separate one of the legs of the bigger tripod and use it as a monopod. So, I do have some options, there. I'll probably get the film developed during next week, so I'll be waiting in anticipation to see how they turn out!!

[@erikepskamp1991]

Steve, another great video. I really like seeing your use of filters. I struggle with knowing what filter to use. You mentioned the "Preview" app. Can you link that app and tell me more about it? I looks like a good composition tool. Thanks and keep up the good work.

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Erik. The visualisation tool is called the MkII Artists Viewfinder, an essential tool for me these days.

[@JonnyRobbie]

The thing with photographic rules - you are right that they should not be dogmatic. But they are not useless. I think any beginner hearing what you said might be a bit worse off thinking "hey, I'm above rules". Those rules are there as a foundation - you have to start somewhere. If you have a good reason to break them, sure, go for it. But they should be learned and followed by beginners because they *are* useful. They are not some random things. They provide an excellent starting point. If you deliberately move from that start point, great. But generally dismissing rules is not good, imho. I'm generally ticked off by the general disrespect of the rules. I do absolutely believe that one should respect the rules. Work on his foundational skills build upon those respectful rules and only after mastering the foundations then deliberately operating and bending those rules depending on artistic intentions.

[@SteveONions]

That’s an interesting point, I typically don’t think about the beginners as I’m not really aiming the content towards them. Rules certainly assist in learning photography and can still be applied by advanced users but I’ll stick to my original statement that rules aren’t something I follow. Thanks for the honest feedback, it’s much appreciated.

[@JonnyRobbie]

@@SteveONions No problem. I really love your channel and what you do. In fact, my rant might came across as a bit too criticizing. I was criticizing only a bit. I hear it too often from photography channels. Even from those who *do* aim at beginners and that's where it becomes a more real problem imho. Cheers

[@mikejankowski6321]

My take on this is that since digital enables "unlimited free" imaging, a beginner should work first to apply the rules and then allow themselves to break them in a creative fit on the subject. Thus, they can have samples of both to see what works and why. This will help instill the rules while not being needlessly limiting, at least in the initial learning stages. There are not that many things you can do that allow do-overs like that. With film it becomes an extravagant practice, but way back in the film days I was exposed to the idea of bracketing one's compositions on a subject in order to work it thoroughly.

[@keeszondervrees8787]

Thank you!

[@SteveONions]

You’re welcome Kees 👍

[@kapilbhallafoto]

Enjoyed this, though I shoot digital, thought processes are very useful

[@kevinflynn6306]

Very nice Steve I prefer the first shot, reminds me of the tree image I got from you, please don't stop talking. I think we learn more from your interesting commentary and explanations, thank you regards Kevin Flynn USA

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Kevin, it helps me to talk through the process too so I can understand what will and won’t work. Given a bit more time the forest will look different as the foliage increases and changes my options - hopefully.

[@hachewie]

I love tree photography. Nice shots.

[@randybennett6846]

Great video Steve, very difficult subject; I really get more out of these types of videos along with your "self talk"... enjoyed the less contrasty tonality... I do miss your new age music though... Thanks again Steve and good luck;

[@SteveONions]

Fear not Randy, the next video is all music and no talk 😀

[@randybennett6846]

@@SteveONions - Looking forward to that!!!

[@roberttaylor8488]

I have also chased a composition in my case for three years until I finally received an image worthy of printing and framing. Still not fond of your choice of 400 speed film although all the images shown in this video where stunning and I'd be proud of any one of them. Looking forward to your next episode thanks for sharing

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Robert. I do use slower films at times and some upcoming videos feature 100 speed but I find the contrast of 400 speed very useful in landscapes. If it is dull however something like HP5+ can look flat unless I increase development which is fine in 120 but can start to look harsh in 35mm.

[@roberttaylor8488]

Your work with HP5 and dark room technique is inspiring however my past experiences with iso 400 films has been less rewarding. My once in a life time captures on medium format with near prefect lighting and composition have only yielded 16x20 prints before the grain became distracting. I see you have a video using XP2 Super I'll study this episode closely thank you for your time. Robert in Canada

[@brianmccutcheon3205]

Interesting. Going to use the yellow filter a bit more. Thank you

[@davidpresnell1734]

My favorite photoholic!!

[@SteveONions]

Thanks David 😀

[@davidpresnell1734]

I've followed you for some time now. You're not only an exceptional artist but you are an amazingly nice person! I'm thinking about starting my own you tube thing and call myself the photo-physcotic. Physco awh heck the photo whatever!!

[@davidpresnell1734]

Whoa!! I just seen you on google!!

[@evgenygorshkov9893]

Hi Steve ! Interesting video !

[@genegoranov5865]

Thanks to you Steve, and also to Mat Marrash, I gradually move to the "no filter" mode, at least in some cases. Adams had hammered the idea of filtration in my head, but I didn't realize how actually subtle the difference is. Although I still enjoy the contrast filters, I know that once in a while it is totally proper not to use them at all :)

[@SteveONions]

They definitely have a place Gene but aren’t vital for getting a great shot. Interestingly Adams states in ‘The Negative’ that he rarely uses anything stronger than a deep yellow in landscape shots.

[@oldfilmguy9413]

Very enjoyable to watch and hear your thoughts along the way. I find my biggest struggle in woodland images is simplicity. There's a redwood tree at a local park which has become a bit of obsession 🤔 I'll keep plugging away . . . .

[@SteveONions]

I find longer lenses the most useful, rarely a wideangle.

[@nicolasdemoulin7203]

I'm wondering... What tripod do you use?

[@SteveONions]

It’s a Velbon 655 Nicolás.

[@bfs5113]

This reminds me of Freeman Patterson, who told his students to jump up and down in the forest.

[@SteveONions]

I must try that 😊

[@paulp2089]

Fair bit of work there Steve. I find the background a little busy and would probably have drooped the DoF, perhaps f8 or even f5.6. As for composition rules - good guides, but if you like what you see then bugger them. Oh and next bring a chainsaw to help with the composition ... DUH Steve !

[@SteveONions]

I was surprised how much DoF it held too Paul, not a noticeable drop off at all!

[@AndyBanner]

For me, your original composition with the curved leading line of the bank knocks spots off the others.

[@SteveONions]

🙂

[@RomulSpiel]

Steve, ты прав: правильная композиция это очень кропотливая работа. Спасибо за видео!

[@genegoranov5865]

Надо было по турецки написать:)

[@SteveONions]

It’s often just a case of moving a few feet (or inches) at times!