Fundamentals of Second Language Acquisition: A Crash Course (READ NOTES)

[@LucaLampariello]

This is why I love KZbin. Fantastic presentation!

[@voljes9007]

When I was just starting to learn English seriously (I was about A2 level at the time), I was lucky enough to stumble upon ESL Podcast, which helped me reach the level needed to understand native content. Now, years and thousands of hours of input later, I'm about C1/C2. If I could change one thing in my learning journey, it would be to learn about acquisition vs learning much earlier, as I only learned about it when I was already about B2/C1. Thank you for your work and research!

[@futuremultilingual6134]

Great. Really interesting. I am going to share

[@jeffmcquillan]

Much appreciated, James! I suck at promotion :).

[@christinehydon4436]

Thank you so much for sharing that, James. It was amazing.

[@Nihilistexperiment]

Thanks a lot for share us this information Mr. Jeff Mcquillan.. I'm from Mexico mty.. Your observations are very useful... Regards 🙏

[@eslpod]

De nada. Pasé un rato en Cuernavaca hace MUCHOS años.

[@001478]

4:15 1) Learning (Conscious) & Acquisition (Unconscious) 15:39 2) Natural Order Hipothesis 23:03 3) Monitor Hipothesis 38:12 4) Input hipothesis 52:29 5) Affective filter

[@CrownsEnd1]

this needs to go on top

[@christinehydon4436]

I didn't want that to end. Thank you so much, Dr M. That was an absolutely brilliant lecture.

[@Gregoria_80]

Thank you tons for this video, for as a teacher who's been teaching for only 4 years, I've started doubting myself because of that " 3 rd person singular" rule... especially with kids. I hope my students will eventually acquire it. I've been doing my best to explain it, giving them lots of practice and context along with the rules, and I sometimes get so frustrated. Another pain in the neck is mixed tenses. When presented separately everything is ok and goes relatively smoothly, yet as soon as I start compare tenses, my students say there's cereal in their heads. It goes without saying, not with everyone it's a problem, but still. I'm delighted that KZbin has recommended this video, I'll be your steadfast follower, hands down.

[@Amirhossein8844]

We are all thankful for Jeff's insights and knowledge he always shares with us with maximum generosity!

[@jackvieiraoficial]

I can say this without any doubt: I started to see a real improvement in my listening and speaking after starting to listen to your podcast every single day in the last 10 years. It was absolutely vital to truly understand what native speakers say and sound much more natural when I have to talk. You and Dr. Lucy Tse have no idea how much you changed my life! Mainly, the routine of presenting new vocabulary and right after explaining the meaning with examples, all in English, helped me improve my learning so much! Thank you so much Dr. Jeff McQuillan!

[@verovskiconcepts]

Dr McQuillan, that was one great video on the subject. Please 🙏 do not stop making these videos. Thank you.

[@kamransabeti9366]

Thank you Dr McQuillan. You are a great teacher and great human. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. ESL podcasts are fantastic. I wish you the best

[@sandrineboudaud7496]

Very interesting. Thank you

[@izeducationcenter726]

Jeff has shaped a considerable number of teachers' minds at IZ language school since 2020. Words fail us to thank him!

[@evala13]

So interesting! Thank you for sharing this very useful knowledge! Now I'll know how to teach myself languages better

[@Alec72HD]

Dr. McQuillan. I am a fan of you and Dr. Krashen, and i believe i have a few missing pieces to the puzzle of SLA. This will be related to methodology of Middlebury Language school. A little background. I spent 7+ years learning a second language the conventional way, some in school and some as individual hobby. And even though i did well in school, realistically my final level was barely a beginner. Then as a 19 year old i was a part of this experiment. I was placed in a foreign military academy with very strict guidelines. I was only allowed to use the second language, absolute 100% immersion 24/7. And even though i was already an adult, i learned a second language to a near native level within a year. I could physically feel the development of a second language. And obviously i wasn't only studying a second language, I was learning science, engineering, humanities, doing sports. I was having a rich learning experience while acquiring a second language at a rate that seemed magical. There are very important conditions that allow adults to learn on par with immigrant kids. One condition really. Temporarily abstain from native language and dedicate the remaining time to a second language. Not everyone can go through such an experience, but understanding of QUALITATIVE differences that occur during 100% 24/7 immersion is important. Feel free to reply, i have some fascinating ideas that complement your own.

[@josefadib]

Thanks, great as always.

[@luisfdiazp9309]

Waoo, What a nice presentation!!!

[@MsTranthihai71]

Thanks ❤

[@Alec72HD]

Wouldn't you say that Comprehensible Input (CI) is a form of Immersion. And Immersion is best defined as a process of temporarily replacing one's Native Language L1 with a Second Language L2. What happens to people when they experience 24/7 Immersion is mind blowing in terms of SLA progress. Also completely abstaining from L1 is mind blowingly hard psychologically, at least in the beginning. It's a fascinating phenomenon and understanding it helps to better understand the Fundamentals of SLA. Of course everything you say in the video is valid and there is no contradiction. I just want to expand on Krashen and create a more comprehensive theory of SLA. PS Matt vs Japan has some good ideas and he was great at explaining his methodology. Perhaps there is nothing better than Matt's Refold UNLESS someone can also experience 24/7 Immersion.

[@surinmaisrikrod8289]

Excellent Jeff

[@jantelakoman]

Thank you Dr McQuillan. I have a question: I have often wondered why it's called "comprehensible input" and not "understandable input". I think it's because "comprehension" refers to grasping the overall meaning or intent behind an utterance, while "understanding" usually refers to awareness of the role of individual words. I've never seen it elucidated like that anywhere, but is that a useful way of thinking about the terms?

[@jeffmcquillaninla]

Thanks for your comments. The terms "comprehensible" and "understandable" are used by Krashen interchangeably. I'm not sure about the use of "understanding" to refer to conscious or explicit awareness of individual words. It may be used by some experimental psychologists in this manner (?), but it isn't a commonly used technical definition in applied linguistics. Sorry I can't be of more help!

[@jantelakoman]

@@jeffmcquillaninla Thank you for your response. It's clearly a rationalization on my part, so I will be careful not to ascribe it to anyone else. I suppose it was mainly motivated by a need to distinguish between TPRS-style comprehensible input, where students can translate every word, and comprehensible input defined as "successful communication" whether achieved through linguistic competence alone or not. Is there any other useful terminology for making this distinction?

[@jeffmcquillaninla]

@@jantelakoman Not that I know of, but it is an excellent observation. I suppose it is really more a continuum of comprehension, from every word and sentence to something more "global." But I don't know anyone who has treated this carefully. To be fair, most L2 researchers are too busy studying various forms of form-focussed instruction with which to torture their students :).

[@juliamarsh2077]

Excellent, more like this, please. I would like to know your take on acquiring vocabulary using patterns, e.g. most English nouns that end in -ity are the same in Spanish but end in -idad. I found this helpful, but I am wondering if that is just my perception.

[@gregoryglavinovich9259]

20:00

[@konstantinosstavropoulos3605]

good

[@stevencarr4002]

Can we learn a language by using the association method? For example, can we learn the Spanish word 'saltar' by visualising a giant salt-cellar jumping very high on the Moon, where there is little gravity so it jumps high, or remember the German word 'Kopf' by seeing somebody clasp their head in their hands and saying 'Kopf', or learn the German word 'Ohren' by associating it with somebody holding their ears? Could we learn the German word for '2' by seeing somebody draw the symbol '2' and then associating that image with somebody saying 'Zwei'? Or remember the Spanish word for 'bread' by associating it with an image of somebody cooking bread in a pan? Is the association method of learning words effective?

[@stevencarr4002]

Which second language did Professor McQuillan acquire by this method, rather than the 'go to university and get a degree' method?

[@joseangeljimenezruiz674]

Gracias muy instructivo.

[@BeyondMediocreMandarin]

First of all, you've explained things amazingly clearly! Quick question: do you consider output as a form of input? After all, you can hear yourself speak and see yourself write.

[@jeffmcquillan]

Thanks for your kind comments. For input to be useful, it has to contain something "new" for you to acquire. We sometimes refer to this as "i+1" where "i" is your current level of acquisition and "+1" is something just slightly above it. If the input is 100% comprehensible and contains nothing new for you to acquire, you won't improve your acquisition. By definition, your own output consists of things you've already acquired, so no, it doesn't serve as a source of useful input for you.

[@Alec72HD]

​@@jeffmcquillan I really hope I can share some of my experience and ideas pertaining to SLA. Everything you say, I agree 👍 with. But I have my own unique theory that complements your CI explanations. It really brings together CI and what we know about the brain 🧠 physiology. Also it explains WHY immigrant children can become native speakers of a second language. And why adults have a hard time achieving same results as immigrant kids can achieve, except it is kinda possible, as it happened to me. I will explain in the next post.

[@Alec72HD]

​​​​@@jeffmcquillan Background: I had spent 7 years learning a second language the conventional way, some in school and some as individual hobby. And even though i did well in school, realistically my final level was barely a beginner. ( A1-A2, as was confirmed by a comprehensive test) Then as a 19 year old i was a part of this experiment. I was placed in a foreign military academy with very strict guidelines. Foreign students were only allowed to use L2, it was absolute 100% immersion environment 24/7. (Kinda similar to Middlebury Language school or French Foreign Legion approach) And even though i was already an adult, i learned a second language to a near native level within a year. I could physically feel the development of a second language. After 3 months i was thinking in L2 full time, i had near native listening comprehension in 6 months. And obviously i wasn't studying a second language exclusively, I was learning science, engineering, humanities, doing sports. I was having a rich learning experience while acquiring a second language at a rate that seemed magical. There are very important conditions that allow adults to learn on par with immigrant kids. One condition really. Temporarily abstain from native language and dedicate all the remaining time to a second language. Regarding deliberate study of grammar. Nobody was teaching me any of that. Well, I had a tutor for a few sessions, but then a school decided to forgo tutoring because our progress was too fast to keep track of. Yes, our progress, because there were 5 of us. And we all exhibited remarkable rates of improvement. We were separated to different battalions (dorms) and we weren't allowed to communicate. As far as explicit knowledge of L2 grammar, I FORGOT everything I knew as a beginner. I ACQUIRED grammar the same way native speakers do and I was reasonably grammatically correct. A Grammatically correct sentence SOUNDS right, incorrect sounds funny. I don't know any of the textbook grammar explanations. That being said, studying L2 grammar ENTIRELY using L2 when you are more advanced could be a USEFUL tool, though not entirely necessary. Studying L2 grammar (or vocabulary) using native language is a colossal waste of time.

[@Alec72HD]

​@@jeffmcquillan PS. I don't mean to be deceitful. The Military Academy was the US Merchant Marine Academy in Kings Point, NY The year was 1991. And my native language is very distant from English, it is русский. My main interest is promoting effective acquisition of English as the international language. Because old traditional methods (grammar & translation) are widely used and produce abysmal results. Paul Nation can travel to Russia or China and see how great of a failure that approach is.

[@drkh0070]

👍👍👍

[@tiagoalfreddo]

EstA es mi mano...

[@jeffmcquillaninla]

Read NOTES! 😊

[@redstorm474]

Thank you so much for the lecture, but I disagree with what you said. When you learn something consciously (learning), after practice, you do it automatically (acquiring). The same is true when you learn to drive a car. I can deliberately study "she or he runs," and after practicing it many times, I will use it automatically without thinking about it! As you said, just acquiring it from input can take you a whole life. Retrieval practice is the most powerful way to learn something, both explicitly and implicitly, according to science. Your approach implies using repetitions (a lot of input); that's not an effective way. Research shows that studying deliberately outperforms studying undeliberately. There's no research that shows that a lot of comprehensible input can beat deliberate learning through deliberate retrieval practice, but there's a ton of research that shows retrieval practice is the best for learning and implicit knowledge. So deliberate learning with a lot of practice and retrieval practice will make it perfect!

[@jeffmcquillan]

There is a considerable amount of evidence that conscious learning does not become acquisition. See Stephen Krashen's reviews in his various publications, including Explorations in Language Acquisition and Use (2003). Learning to drive a car is not the same as language acquisition. Retrieval practice is not the most "powerful" way to acquire languages. In fact, it won't help very much at all, for the reasons I explained in the lecture (see discussion of the Monitor Hypothesis). Also, I reviewed the evidence on rote memorization and retrieval "practice" for vocabulary at length in a series of interviews with James Stubbs @futuremultilingual6134 of Future Multilingual. See links here: backseatlinguist.com/blog/interviews-with-james-stubbs-on-future-multilingual/

[@jantelakoman]

I used to think like you. What really helped me was understanding that learning and acquisition are fundamentally different kinds of knowing. I found that there are other examples of tacit knowledge which can only be acquired through experience, such as chick sexing and the "sixth sense" that seasoned experts of many professions use daily but struggle to describe. This all helped to make the learning/acquisition distinction make more sense to me.

[@stevencarr4002]

@@jeffmcquillan Is teaching somebody the word for something by pointing to it and saying the word for that thing, an example of 'conscious learning'? Or is it more 'explicit instruction'?

[@jevogroni4829]

conscious learning vs. language aquisition are both results, so direct instruction produces a bit of both, i suppose, but is meant to mainly produce ”learning” in the krashen sense of the word

[@redstorm474]

@@jevogroni4829 Scientists don't take krashen's hypothesis seriously these days A lot of research showed it's not enough to have input for acquisition

[@williambudd2850]

A lot of talk but very little information. HUGE waste of time to listen to the whole thing!

[@jeffmcquillan]

Glad you enjoyed it, William! :)

[@LucaLampariello]

@@jeffmcquillan Great reply to a very sad troll (who used to leave comments on my channel as well before I kicked him out 😀)