Tether Grabs are BROKEN

[@petery6432]

Remember when Marth had a tether grab in Melee? I mean it didn't grab the ledge but...

[@zn6632u]

tee hee marth grab big

[@nathanlevesque7812]

Isn't it much smaller than what Palutena has in Ultimate?

[@salj.5459]

Nathan Levesque No, not at all

[@sonpham3438]

Nathan Levesque kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpKtqo1todJ7n68

[@tenacity25]

No, it's Palutena's ultimate grab

[@p0ppyx]

If Luigi could grab the ledge with his plunger we would all be screwed

[@g.t.202]

A shame he can’t

[@g.t.202]

Lmao

[@beybl7869]

@Edwin Jiménez Aceves media would have you believe you can climb skyscrapers with plungers

[@leomatthews1469]

Imagine if he shot the plunger onto the ledge and then his vacuum to grab it like in Luigi’s Mansion 3.

[@tonyt987]

I would love to be screwed by Luigi. But in a straight way, y’know?

[@stixsis4656]

Dude. You just spoke my mind. Every non-teather grab need grab range buffs, I find so many times I get punished for trying to grab even if I'm inside the opponent's shield.

[@MallowJam]

@Who Knows bigger hitboxes are a range increase

[@itsdalu3416]

luigi must have a tether right now or I'm telling sakurai's mom

[@itsdalu3416]

yoshi and luigi don't need any

[@thegamingguy1]

If mario up smashes my shield and i try to shield grab im whiffing and you already know he's hitting me with a second up smash I wanna die

[@IAm-zo1bo]

Shut up you know my boy mario will never get nerfed

[@donovanmahan2901]

Having your shield hit by a smash in general usually pushes you too far away lol

[@gothtearz]

As a G&W main, I am currently laughing

[@IAm-zo1bo]

@@gothtearz fuck off G&W main

[@DANCERcow]

Then try punishing with something else?

[@bennywarren9870]

Tether grab on stage 3 to 6 feet Tether grap recovery. 7 light years

[@danielfajardo7601]

true

[@Dalton-ke9rw]

grap

[@Lambs4lyf]

larrylurr has the BORINGEST “hey guys” like someone who hates their job and have to greet their colleagues. AND IM DOWN FOR IT

[@melaei]

I actually really like it too

[@linkdude600]

It sounds more natural what you on about

[@SaMiChi]

It's authentic and no nonsense, that why we like it.

[@supersaiyankrillin1237]

Boringest isn’t a word

[@LarryLurr]

That's just my voice....

[@Patrick-bn5rp]

"There are still times when your tether grab can be low profiled" *laughs in Toon Link*

[@VB3Pac]

*laughs in Pac-Man*

[@Phychologik]

Cries in Pichu

[@Mr_ViPR]

VB3 personally I don’t consider Pac-Mans a tether grab,

[@finnmonaghan4812]

ViPR why? it’s disjointed, has a longer range than normal grabs and is slower than normal grabs. Maybe instead we can just classify it as a shit grab lmao

[@unny8135]

@@finnmonaghan4812 his grab is pretty good imo, especially compared to Sm4sh Pac Man grab lmao.

[@jonasbjordal8332]

2:17 this kind of body blocking is so ugly. I can't believe they haven't fixed this yet

[@macaron3141592653]

Wow, first person on the internet asking to buff ALL THE CHARACTERS

[@dkbroman]

NERF ALL CHARACTERS SWORD FIGHTERS ARE TOO STRONG NERF HEAVIES AND PALUTENA

[@Rhy2412TitanGamer]

Luigi has the most polarizing. He can't tether to a ledge, but is rewarded with zero-death conversion s from it & it acting as a edgeguarding zair by denying the ledge. Lucas has the most versatile. Negates projectiles not dealing 17.3%, is -2 on shield, combos (into kill confirms too), lingers for 12 frames, and has double jump cancel zair attached to it.

[@statichammer9984]

Just a side note since larry didnt mention it. Additional mechanics that also make grabs worse include increased pushback when moves hit shield, and a decrease in the size of the grabbox that detects airborne opponents.

[@nathanlevesque7812]

'zairs have range' Lucas: ...

[@meganinja456]

True but he makes up for it by being able to zair someone across the stage.

[@nathanlevesque7812]

@@meganinja456 True, it's a fantastic combo tool, though double-jump cancelling it is really difficult even without online input lag.

[@Sleeepy.]

I mean zair is his longest range move? He doesn't need that much range anyways, because fair has a massive disjoint, so even though it isn't a very large move, you can still space it to be very safe. If you're no good at that, use zair.

[@erickalvarez6486]

It's also faster than his other attacks.

[@morganman592]

Anyone:*Rolls towards ledge* Tether grabs: *”I like where this is going.”*

[@Rarest26]

So I was right all along! Link’s grab DID get wrecked! Also, make regular grabs universally like Palutena’s. Her grab isn’t busted, everyone else’s is trash

[@caoinhnamkhanh2795]

True. *When everyone's heroes, no one will be.*

[@jamesflanagan6261]

Reasons to play Palutena: _Come for the invincible back air and dash attack, stay for the functional grab_

[@nathanlevesque7812]

When has there ever been a bigger normal grab than hers?

[@theSato]

@@nathanlevesque7812 marth in melee and thats about it lol

[@meggy8875]

@@theSato bowser in smash 4?

[@yosma6]

1:31 I think this is the first time of my whole life I see a g&w doing a grab out of shield

[@e02_v41]

“B-but it has so much endlag and it’s such a commitment though”

[@lemonboy5498]

8:17 “Waluigi is on stage”

[@masenadams9551]

I agree with what you said Larry but I think Nintendo should remove the collision with the characters. They need to make us dash through people so grabs won't wif all the time and they should also give every normal grab characters more grab range.

[@MetaTrixx]

this is one of the best videos you've ever done. Good editing aswell 👍 keep it up

[@squiddler7731]

Remember before Ultimate came out and everyone was thinking Luigi would suck because he was given a tether grab?

[@Nanadyne]

I'm gonna be real, the mechanic of not being able to run past opponents was the worst decision they ever made and should be removed in my honest opinion. In a game like Smash this just becomes a detriment rather than a good change.

[@emanonomoi]

I played a ton of Sm4sh and I honestly don't miss being able to run through people. It practically makes the concept of stage control irrelevant although it allowed for some sick mix-ups and such in neutral. Being able to collide with hurtboxes isn't a bad thing, it's just how they implemented it,like the collision box being bigger than some characters causing grabs to whiff, that's what mainly sucks ass.

[@billable1861]

I agree. Coming from melee and having so much freedom it’s weird. I don’t miss ledge hogging but I miss that desperately.

[@Kage-Ni-Kaitaku-Umi]

@ShinZa ... with that being said, we’d like to be able to run past shields and see that horrible buffer system fixed.

[@abelbeans]

While I agree with most everything in this video, I feel like if every character's grab was as large as Palutena's, punish game would become predictable and boring. Moreover the fast paced neutral in this game would suffer due to defensive play being too strong (like in smash 4) the only thing they should actually change is GRAB-BOX shifting during animations like Ganon's forward tilt as you demonstrated.

[@uhhhCheese]

"Luigi has the best tether in the game" **laughs in djcz**

[@csmash342]

PK Cheese that’s just a cheesy gimmick

[@IAm-zo1bo]

Is that the shit that lucas has

[@finnmonaghan4812]

C Smash dude I’d like to see you pull it off. That shit is hard and I respect anyone that can gat 4djcz’s into a forward arias cause they have practiced hard. I think it’s a cool part of Lucas’s gameplay, without his tether, he’d go down from mid tier to low for sure

[@shaunavayne9586]

@@finnmonaghan4812 it is a gimmick tbh if it wasnt frame perfect then it would be viable

[@uhhhCheese]

@@shaunavayne9586 Just get the timing it isnt that hard, definetly viable

[@podina3005]

Luigi’s tether combos into so many things and leads to kill confirms and edgeguards

[@benjiramirez7712]

Josh's Byleth was saucing Jerry's Zss, y'all ain't gonna talk about that

[@prestige8477]

I think a technical change that went under the radar is that everyone's jump (except the Ice Climbers) has "balloon physics", making grabs even harder to land. One of my favorite ways to avoid slow/low hitting moves is to just jump over them at the last second because you get to max jump height so fast. It's really noticable when comparing Melee Luigi to Ultimate Luigi.

[@orphiccoma]

One thing I think should be mentioned at least is that some tether grabs have blind spots right next to the character (Olimar and ZSS, maybe others). This can get you super hard punished , and it definitely comes up every now and then.

[@Koolst3rJacket]

Want to know something even more broken? So I main Samus. I can use tether to recover at ledge. You mentioned that you get less invulnerability frames when recovering with tether. I think its somewhere around 20 frames less. Interestingly enough though, I learned from your videos that if you delay off stage you get MORE invulnerability frames. Guess what counts as delaying off stage? Just hanging with tether. So if you tether ledge and just hang for a bit, you get back some of those invulnerability frames you lose since you tethered. Loophole? Obvious downside being you are vulnerable when just hanging. But if your opponent doesn't have a specific technique to counter this, most of the cast is forced to either wait and maintain stage control or give up stage control to try and attempt to punish this mechanic.

[@eaa1338]

Koolst3rJacket yeah I do the same thing with Lucas. I do it to bait them into spiking me so I can spike them by releasing my tether and jumping away at the last second or just for the extra intangibility frames (mostly the second option). I also use pk freeze to stall more in the air (pk freeze lets you stall more in the air than psi magnet, but it has more lag than psi magnet).

[@MageBoyJr]

On one hand, you can only tether-recover three times before it fails. On the other, that’s ten total times you can re-grab the stage edge before you die as opposed to seven. Good players should know how to attack the edge, but it’s still a thing.

[@bonsoir7495]

Luigi : grabs* Ennemy : "My time has come"

[@SportsGaming-ll3ru]

Luigi went from having the best normal grab to having the best tether grab lol

[@Vengix93]

Bomberman64 music... Nice I never thought I'd that music again lol. Also a good informational video. Didn't realize how different grabs were compared to old Smashs

Imagine having a tether recovery option and not a tether grab. *LAUGHS IN BELMONT*

[@superawesomeyoshidragon4045]

Except Yoshi's grab lol I mean, what would you call his grab? A tether? A normal grab? I just call it bad lol

[@leomatthews1469]

SuperAwesome YoshiDragon I believe its considered to be just an extended grab. It’s kind if Ivysaur’s and Olimar’s.

[@wordsayer19]

Larry: "Most tether grabs have better frame data than Sm4sh, long range, a Zair, and a ledge tether." Me: **Cries in Yoshi**

[@antondocenko6496]

2:57 Lol pleading with the devs is like writing a letter to Santa Claus

[@DaWowDruid]

loved the production value on this vid bro. really fancy, keep it up!

[@dkbroman]

Trying to grab a prepatch Yoshi charging smash attack

[@rainbowgg___]

Hey bro I really like the way you break down this game. I’m getting back into it since not playing it for almost a year.

[@felipenavarro5340]

Good luck with it 👍

[@Andy-th6qs]

A quick tip if you're playing zss is to use side b to get to ledge instead of zair, because sometimes your zair will just bounce off of the ledge and you will die for it.

[@TeshNeoteny]

6:15 You can do instant pivot grab from a standing position. You won't go sliding away like that.

[@gamerjamessss]

This is a great video overall, but I wish you would've covered Lucas's tether grab, specifically about it being able to true combo into itself and other moves. I think this makes his tether grab close to Luigi's in terms of how good it is, because it turns the tether into a really strong combo tool you can use in neutral. It's one of his best moves, and very few people seem to know this about him. Here's a video with more information: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3KUk4mQet6Dh5I Thanks for spreading awareness for tether grabs!

[@gothtearz]

I love Lucas. He's so sick in the right hands

[@cesarcastillo7129]

@@gothtearz Lucas needs more recognition, its a pretty solid character that with tether or not is mid tier or more. i dont get why people say that he would be low tier without it

[@erickalvarez6486]

Lucas ma man! I've been using him, I'll watch the video right away.

[@bebopssbu7696]

I'm honestly surprised that you didn't mention Lucas's tether/Zair. He can double jump zair cancel (DJZC), chaining them together. This blows his combo potential wide open when optimized, you can also use it from ledge as another mixup. Lucas is the only tether character who has access to DJZC, and in this Lucas mains humble (albeit biased) opinion it at the leasts puts him in the running for best tether in the game. Another thing; This might be due to my own inability as a player, but I feel that characters w/ tethers have a much smaller window to get Tomahawk grabs due to the slower startup on their grabs, giving the opponent more time to react. Thoughts on this?

[@moss7910]

You should cover grabs that kinda fall in the middle, like grenenja and Pac-Man Always thought people slept on Pac-Man’s grab

[@KidAL0]

I just miss being able to run through and pivot grab my opponent, that shit was so satisfying to land ;(

[@readyforlol]

Title and thumbnail : Tether grabs are BROKEN ! Video : Some tether grabs can be better than most regular grabs.

[@AlphaxZero28]

This honestly might be the reason why I hate playing link now, despite his universally and massively positive changes to his kit, I just really miss his old tether grab.

[@trentfart]

Conclusion; Tether grab slow but good range. Reg. Grab fast but little range.

[@flamo2666]

No, not at all. This was the same in other smash bros games but in this one tether grabs are a lot better, why? The answer to that question is the conclusion of this video.

[@riotron1026]

Digging the Bomberman Hero background music. Dope.

[@salj.5459]

5:23 Couldn't you cancel a spotdodge into an attack cancel aerial?

[@january3rd293]

Bomberman Hero music? Awesome! Been so long since I heard that!

[@StephenSiu]

I grabbed a lot in smash 4. I knew it got worse in ultimate, but I never understood why until I watched this video talking about the three things. Thanks Larry

[@chongogod4870]

Larry can u create a vid explaining how to under stand frame data i wanna learnd how to read data and actually know whan am i seeing on ultimade frame data.

[@jamesflanagan6261]

+Miguel Jorge It’s actually pretty easy to learn once you learn what a frame is. A frame in SSBU is 1/60th of a second. A human can react as fast as the 9th frame from an audio cue or 19-23 frames visually. When discussing frame data, we’re actually saying, “How many 1/60 of a second are spent doing this move?” There are different kind of frames we use when discussing different parts of a move, start up frames, active frames, recovery frames, and shield block frames. Start up frames are the beginning movement of your character, how fast the moves takes to come out. Active frames are how many frames the active hit box from the move is out for. And recovery frames are the amount of frames it takes to return control to your character after performing the move. And finally, shield block frames are the frames of shield block you take from a really strong attack, like when you can’t immediately act out of shield because your shield is in hitstun. Reading this should help understand a base knowledge but there is a lot more to frames out there and there only use for us is to understand the game better.

[@IAm-zo1bo]

You don't need a video for something so simple

[@tristanreynolds5135]

Don't worry there's no test

[@WRA_Cole]

Tether grabs last longer. Pacman laughs in galaxian

[@KyleHohn]

8:16 WALUIGI CONFIRMED FOR SMASH

[@MayonnaiseVenusaur]

I've been feeling this way recently. But I main Yoshi and second Samus so obviously the differences are extreme for me. But it seems like I get grabs as Samus so much more often than my opponents do as more normal characters.

[@Geneolgia]

Cloud and Belmonts: "You guys have grabs?" But seriously why aren't non tether grabs normalized to 6 frames across the roster when Ultimate standardized a bunch of stuff such as jump squat?

[@Uknkown]

I'd argue because some characters get stuff off grabs more than others (or at all, lol cloud) but yeah it shouls be better than how unbalanced it is right now Example Cloud veing frame 9 with puny range and no combos or kills

[@Geneolgia]

@@Uknkown exactly, Cloud's throws are all bad and Belmonts grab shouldn't be that bad considering they're slow and not designed to fight up close so getting a a frame 6 grab is already a commitment and having a frame 9 one is unnecessary, and then we have Byleth with a regular grab even though they're "Distance Demons" like the Belmonts

[@Nerdboy456]

dont even play much these days but your delivery and thorough explanation is kinda relaxing and interesting, good stuff

[@Never_Always2]

"Tether Grabs are BROKEN" **Laughs in Pac-Man**

[@user-pp7ol5xs9l]

the cloud grab physically hurts me

[@leomatthews1469]

I feel like Luigi would be so much better if his zair could recover.

[@ricocarpenter2189]

I get the whole range but the lag from tether is really terrible. I often I find I can't fully utilize the range of tether grabs because by the time the grab reaches the full range the opponent has ages to react.

[@SgtKickass926]

That Bomberman Hero music though 😎

[@umpvp2435]

Luigi Zair doesn’t tether, a huge blind spot at the end of dash grab , and has 20 frames landing lag when all other zairs have 8, how can it possibly be the best?

[@mathunit1]

Larry: Because fuck you, that's why. XD

[@danielblack5196]

Love the video. I have always agreed that tethers were better in this game because of all of the changes you’ve mentioned. One thing I thought I’d point out, is that tether grabs are really good at shield grabbing smash attacks, while regular grabs just can’t do it anymore unlike in smash 4.

[@Clodd97]

Command throws are BROKEN?

[@Adventureruler]

Love the vid Larry! If you could just make your voice a little more volume these will be perfect to listen to when im out and about! :D

[@KermitTh3Fr0g]

You didn’t mention Lucas’ DJC he can do with his Zair

[@caoinhnamkhanh2795]

Tbh, it's cool that it *can* happen but it's window is *t i g h t* 'cause of the hitbox closer to Lucas makes it hard to make the opponent to follow Lucas as he does DJCZ. Other than that and grabbing ledge (which is kinda wonky for him cause it isn't as "sensitive" when detecting the ledge), it *is* his fastest aerial, but it does little damage, and it's small so it's easily punished by *any character with decent speed* or a fast OoS option. Tl;dr: Lucas' Zair, it's... *a* move.

[@Remsis115]

Kermit dont u mean waveshine lmao

[@FinnishArsonist]

@@caoinhnamkhanh2795 it is easier than you think, as it is consistent and easy to memorise he timing. Also, Lucas's Z-air is generally one of the best moves in his kit (def better than Luigi's zair), without DJCZ.

[@caoinhnamkhanh2795]

@@FinnishArsonist It can be, but not as versatile as Luigi's, but faster and more useful indeed. But his grab tho, it's sad to compare that to ZSS'

[@eaa1338]

Khánh Nam yeah ik I wished he could grab someone that is on the other side of the battlefield platform lucas is standing on. Idk why but i always whiff my grab even tho they didn’t space it perfectly.

[@durma6924]

I see what you're saying, but I think it's fair to admit that tether grabs are as strong as they are because pivot grabs are more fundamental with shield grab being dead af. Dash Pivot Grab is one of the few options to deal with certain characters jump-spamming from the ground. Also for tethers your hitbox extends slightly, but it does this extension much earlier than the disjoint comes out. (Lucas sticks his hand out instantly, but his tether is shorter and travels faster. Constrast to samus who starts with pulling her hand back at the start with a much longer animation.) Many a time have I been trying to outspace too long of a hitbox and die because my hurtbox is out before the disjoint. I have no defense on zair tho, that shit's wild lol Good video my guy

[@DistortedEmerald]

6:38 i died.

[@abreika]

Dang I learned alot! Thanks Larry!

[@libertyafterdark6439]

I like how homeslice said this game sucks when Palu grabs him out of the air and literally thats been going on all week at summit Melee xD

[@GimR]

HARD AGREE

[@AHGavInDaUSA]

Grabs not being as good as they should be makes shield too reliable of an option. I agree buff grab range

[@flamo2666]

Shielding isn’t still super reliable. I disagree, if you shield a lot you will be punished very hard.

[@AHGavInDaUSA]

goOf depends on the character. Some matchups you can hold shield pretty non-committal and be fine. The Rock Paper Scissors is off balance since scissors is too non-committal and paper is not good enough.

[@flamo2666]

Banjo & Kazooie paper is good enough, Larry’s point isn’t that grab is too weak it’s that tether grabs are better.

[@AHGavInDaUSA]

goOf his point was that while grabs were nerfed from smash 4 tether grabs weren’t hit very hard, thus making their paper option much stronger. He also stated buffing regular grabs for other characters to balance that out.

[@flamo2666]

Banjo & Kazooie this still doesn’t prove that grabs are now too weak. Considering most top players say that ultimate is more aggressive and has nerfed defensive options such as rolling, in spot dodging, etc, I doubt shield being “too good” is a concern.

[@NotorV23]

Shoutouts to the bomberman hero ost

[@mateorodriguez2300]

Do characters who use a tether as their up B also have less invulnerability frames when grabbing ledge?

[@leomatthews1469]

Mateo Yes. This applies to Ivysaur.

[@nezoxy3610]

Ivy grab SUCKS. Range of palus but frame 13 but doesnt last longer than normal grabs

[@dfsshusa6354]

Isabelle's Fishing Rod is the most OP tether grab

[@Hayds126]

DFS Shusa it can be shielded though

[@Memyx]

Surprised you didn't mention Lucas' djc-zair.

[@jimbarrows2807]

Luigis Gray is not a TETHER because it doesn’t TETHER to the LEDGE

[@SweetzTheOne]

For some reason, it bothered me at 1:11 when you put the first words in lowercase, the second words started with an uppercase, and the third words with only an uppercase at the beginning. I don't have OCD guys I swear

[@diggoran]

You can run through characters if you're heavier than them. The bigger the weight difference, the faster you'll run through.

[@JEANS__]

i agree people underrate tether grabs. if you include pacman grab that grab is lowkey kinda broken too

[@idkdy5972]

I feel like the only broken one is luigi who has like 0 end lag

[@IAmGlu]

Great vid. imo tether only broken in comparison with how non-tether grabs are right now. If they buff regular grabs to just have more range and be less punishable (maybe make grab out of shield with non-tether grabs viable again) I’d say they’d be pretty even.

[@itsmeshady1770]

I would like to utilize my first first comment to say please delete Sonic from the game. Thank you this has been my Ted talk.

[@alexyanez8033]

He got nerfed hard from sm4sh. Sure hes annoying to play but at least he isnt Broken.

[@forex2893]

Nice TED talk

[@davidc.]

Finally some good fucking *Ted talk*

[@ProducerShane]

Grabs are one of the main reasons I dropped Smash Ultimate.. I can't stop myself from trying to shield grab these badly spaced moves. From Melee , to Brawl to Smash 4, poor spacing has always meant you'll eat a grab. I can't handle people being safe for it. Im forced to go for Aerials whenever someone hits my shield with poor spacing- and it's a heavy commitment to reprogram myself for that - especially when you have a strong feeling that it's going to change the next game

[@gitgud7640]

what do i do if i really liked the vid and im already subbed

[@JeremWatts]

i feel insanely defensive when i hear someone use bomberman hero music

[@lindaleparkrolo]

Love this video keep them up!

[@pote2frouifruite81]

Luigi's tether grab can't grab the ledge and Olimar doesn't even have a Zair even tho he's using a tether grab (it's a really special kind of tether grab tho cus it kind of change characteristics depending on which Pikmin you're using oh and isn't it covering a smaller height than the other grabs since the Pikmin are really small?)

[@pote2frouifruite81]

if anyone wanna know -the strenght of the grab increase the more Pikmin are being used -if the first Pikmin being used is a red, the throw will be weak -if it's a blue Pikmin the throw has amazing damage and knockback increase to the point that it can be very deadly -if you use a purple Pikmin the grab range will be shorter -if it's a white it'll be faster and go further

[@mystic7244]

Do attacks that work like Z-airs like Joker, Byleth, or Ivysuar's Up special count as a tether?

[@gothtearz]

Tether recovery but not a tether grab, so yeah

[@happycamperds9917]

As a Plant main my own giant head blocks my grab.

[@XxRaceRCxX]

Next video: Spotdodge Is Broken

[@bluepugjr4573]

Samus aka down throw forward air: the character

[@umpvp2435]

Except Luigis and lucas

[@Neloch4]

Are we figuring this out now?

[@Pizzaman3366]

It's a shame because the counter to zair in previous smash games was simply dash and powershield then punish, but because perfect shielding is different in Ultimate...well...nope

[@Sanctor95]

People just need to be more creative with their punishes OOS. Shield grab was too easymode in 4. Don't advocate for buffs to standing grab range! I'd instead advocate for reducing the resistance to character model overlap, this would make cross-ups easier to pull off and deepen play a bit imo, whereas increasing standing grab ranges across the board would just make it harder to apply shield pressure with well spaced aerials. These kind of potential changes make for an interesting discussion.

[@OfficialNeonScratch]

Joker and Byleth doesn't count right?