"Laugh and grow fat!" | Metal Gear Solid 2 Analysis (Ep.4) | State of the Arc Podcast

[@RUdigitized]

My lawyer keeps telling me I need to go over this multi million dollar lawsuit he doesn’t understand that Mike and casen are covering mgs.

[@jorort01]

People don't understand Mike and Cassen actually witnessed the events of MGS2, and they need to respect that.

[@orcbrand]

I literally listen ot this podcast at a law office every wednesday hah

[@Oddragnar]

He's not the Colonel he's the Kernel

[@matthewgubbins8515]

My mind was blown when I found out about the kernel and jack stuff

[@matthewgubbins8515]

Gift of the silver tongue, the mark of a good officer. And of a liar

[@reloadpsi]

In olden times, being fat was a status symbol because it meant you could afford to eat in excess, so "laugh and grow fat" suggests that high spirits are key to success in life.

[@XenithflareGaming]

And to laugh meant you weren't struggling and didn't have stresses.

[@mavericle]

Hi, guys. Just a couple of notes: - David Hayter and the rest of the cast have indeed re-recorded lines for the remake, but (as far as we know at the moment) just for those lines that deal with tutorial-related conversations, since new gameplay options have been added. - "Neither enemy, nor friend" is also a Gray Fox line in the first MGS. Just another repetition of events added into the mix. - So you can only remember Kiefer as Jack Bauer, huh? THE MEMES!!

[@DearProvidence]

I just wanted to thank you guys for what you do. I suffer with a neurological condition that keeps me bedridden most of the time. Your discussions are so funny, insightful, and relaxing. They give me the energy to keep going. I'm so happy to see you're posting more content. Keep it up, and I would love to support you financially when I can. Much love!

[@Reddeth6332]

Idk who all knows this, but the wild part about Kojima's issue with Hayter is that the two could have literally had a talk. Hayter actually lived and went to school in Japan when he was growing , he had to actually learn the language. On top of that Hayter is a screen writer in Hollywood that has worked with big names. On top of that hes done acting, directing, and producing. So its just so odd that he had it out so bad for Hayter and that leads me to wonder if Kojima even knew that Hayter wasnt just a Voice Actor.

[@ChemicalTen]

A church is a meme museum…..damn lol

[@velasoraptor_]

Note on Vamp: In Dragon Quest 3, one of the personality types is Vamp, which is used to mean "sexy", but only used for women. So IDK where it stems from, but seems to be a Japanese thing.

[@reloadpsi]

And one of those things they probably tried to change in translation but Kojima stomped his feet and demanded it be literal.

[@Lord-MoldyButt0]

I love this channel and your breakdowns. I’ve been binging the MGS content so far. I can’t wait for y’all to discuss my favorite title MGS3.

[@Ka_Five]

Me: "Finally, someone is going to explain why Vamp means bisexual. If its anyone its these guys" Mike: "I couldn't find anything"

[@DungeonBricks]

I half expected Casen, with his encyclopedic knowledge about symbolism, to at least have an educated guess about it. Not saying that I'm disappointed, I'm not, if there's nothing, there's nothing.

[@contextsensitive8484]

it's apparently a somewhat uncommon term for a "flirt" or seductress. i always thought it had something to do with theatricality or performance, since you can "vamp" when you're playing music (repeat a short section for as long as necessary), especially in musical theater

[@JustinBrown-z4i]

I was not expecting like 10 minutes on that 1 line lmfao.

[@dances_with_incels]

Are we just gonna not talk about the president grabbing Raiden by the nads?

[@kelvinv9819]

@@DungeonBricksCasen only becomes motivated if it has to do with the Japanese language/ Japanese culture. If there isn’t an opportunity to flex to us how he speaks fluent Japanese then he won’t bother

[@bigadam]

I'm really enjoying this series. I often don't comment because I don't have anything in particular to say but do want to express my appreciation for the conversations you guys have. This makes me want to replay mgs2 sometime.

[@blossom357]

As an aspiring writer, the way Casen describes Peter Stillman gives me a classic case of "what if?" What if he were the main character of his own story? I love diving into these kinds of side characters who are just as intriguing as anyone else.

[@BertonMelch]

This has become my favorite podcast. Metal Gear Solid is a huge part of my life.

[@shadow8928]

fun fact: Richard Ames is the ex-husband of MGS1's Nastasha Romanenko.

[@lokstir4568]

Are the documents of mgs1 only available in the substance edition or were they also in sons of liberty?

[@DastyDan]

I can confirm that, as someone who played MGS2 before MGS1 as a kid, that I was totally pulled along with that deception with them starting you with the Planter mission first. It was still very confusing though lol although I think the confusion was mostly because I was too young to really grasp the themes of the game too tbh

[@grahamwade5932]

In some of the early drafts of the game, Plissken was supposed to have blonde hair (whether from a wig or dyed hair I don't know) which I assume would have helped a little more in confusing people as to his identity, but really it's pretty obvious who he is no matter what. I remember playing it back in the day and being really confused as to why the Colonel was adamant that he wasn't snake and at one point getting angry when Raiden mentions their relationship. At that stage in the game I thought they had perhaps gone with the bad MGS1 ending and he blamed snake for Meryl's death or something. MGS 1- 4 is just such a wild ride.

[@Dgoc813]

“Laugh and grow fat” is also a reference to the similar line in the Bible, Ecclesiasteces. After the narrator spends the whole book discussing how life is ultimately meaningless and all things have been done before, he concludes “So laugh, drink, and be merry”

[@TheBeird]

Fatman is probably the best boss in the game. Well, my favourite anyway. The final boss is pretty good too. It's hard to remember what my exact initial thoughts were on this game. I was compelled by it as a 19 year old but mainly because of my love of the first game. I knew the Raiden twist so I wasn't annoyed at that. I think I was finding it difficult to follow because there are points where you are hit with so much at once. A weakness of Kojima's storytelling sometimes is that he'll use 400 words when 4 will do (pot kettle black maybe). But now, as an older fellow, I love it. Even with it's jankiness in places. The whole thing just screams personality and art is only interesting with personality.

[@1000BabyRage]

Fun fact: in the Japanese version of MGS2, Olga’s voice actress is the same as Meryl’s on the Japanese version of MGS1.

[@keiochris]

Your podcast inspired me to pick up the game again myself (good timing since it’s now in 4K on PS5 and was on sale) and play through it in Japanese for the first time after playing it in English back when it came out. Interestingly, the “laugh and grow fat” expression is 笑う門には福来る which literally translates to “good fortune and happiness will come to the home of those who smile”. However, the furigana for the subtitle in the JP version is “LAUGH AND GROW FAT” so clearly Kojima or his co-writer was well aware of the English expression and its relevance to Fatman as a character.

[@devan_danger]

Absurdity and Camus =\= nihilism In the context of Fatman's axiom to laugh and be merry its actually an interesting counterpoint to the philosophy of imagining Sisyphus happy. It should also be said that in Camus' The Plague that after all the death and suffering that occurs the doctor and narrator of the story urges the reader to be Decent despite it all. Quite the opposite from nihilism in my opinion.

[@ResonantArc]

This is very good. I'll say that you've given me 2 examples of what to do 'after' absurdism, but that's not rational, in my opinion. what's rational, given absurdism, is laugh and grow fat, if you can. I'm taking Camus' idea of absurdism, which is related to nihilism, but I'm not taking his prescriptions for absurdism, which are outlined in your comment. I think Camus' prescriptions are by definition irrational.

[@dannyz82]

I absolutely love this game. Didn't care for one second that you weren't playing a solid snake for like 95% of the game. Didn't bother me at all. One thing I really enjoyed about it all was that it had a very, I want to say almost creepy atmosphere. From the sound effects, the sometimes a bit ominous music, to the fact that it seems impossible to get the whole truth about anything throughout the game, and at the end you find out the whole scenario was being manipulated and controlled buy an out-of-control AI who's literally using the player as a guinea pig to decide the best course of action in dealing with the human race. Thrilling and so unsettling

[@D-structman]

In regard to Snake's identity, I've never gotten the impression that it was intended to be a plot twist. I always just assumed it was dramatic irony. I think Snake being obviously identifiable sets the PLAYER up to start doubting Campbell, who the player is likely to initially trust because he's our boss, and we're the "good guy". However, if we know Snake and/or have played as Snake, the player is likely to trust Snake implicitly. The thing is, this is also true of Raiden who has performed hundreds of VR missions as Snake. SPOILERS AHEAD: We watch as more of Campbell's information proves to be false and we see Raiden losing faith in him and his mission, and once Snake drops the Pliskin charade he immediately calls him a Legend and asks him for life advice. He then turns around and confronts Campbell about how him and Snake used to be on the same side. I think we're supposed to watch Raiden be lulled into the same place we are as the player into trusting and admiring Snake until the moment the rug gets pulled from under us in what appears to be a betrayal when Snake calls Olga out to capture Raiden, to which Snake blatantly says he never said he was on our side. If there's a plot twist regarding Snake, I would say it would be this, but this ends up not being a true betrayal later. They get into it a little bit when Snake reveals himself to Raiden, but they hash it out in much greater detail at the very end of the game where Snake waxes poetic about the nature of reality, but the crux of where Raiden is supposed to land in this divide between Snake and Campbell is that he can't rely on someone else to tell him what is worth doing, or what is worth passing on. He has to decide that for himself amongst all the deception around him. I mean literally, EVERY person around Raiden is lying to him, or lying about who they are(Snake, Campbell, Rose, Stillman, Olga, etc.). As I'm finding out, the various releases and different versions of the game start a little differently. The point about the opening that Mike makes around 1:21:00 isn't present in Original US release of Sons of Liberty, but IS in the PAL and Japanese versions. It makes it confusing for me to try figure out what the original authorial intent was, so I will admit I could be completely wrong. I never knew about Snake and Solidus sharing the same VA in Japanese, so I could understand it more in that context. I hope this doesn't come across as any kind of criticism, just my impression of the game. I love the podcast and look forward to hearing ya'lls thoughts on the rest of the game.

[@The810kid]

I think Snake's identify being hidden was for not exposing the plot too early for Raiden while keeping Snake active in the story just under the pliskin Alias. Snake had alot of insider info that had to keep secret from Raiden and those two being partners early on would change how the story would flow.

[@-eligos-8670]

Metal gear solid is probably the most influential game in my life making me think I was gonna go to the army and do the same thing. Surprisingly enough I did have VR training though, which is insane to me.

[@BertonMelch]

sneaking mission 60? 😂

[@-eligos-8670]

@@BertonMelch nah Humvee 33 & platoon movement 106 lol Edit: it’s was in “07” so the stuff gotta be way better now they had a little M4’s with thumbsticks* and buttons on them to move for the platoon stuff and then the Home V was kind of like the Mandalorian set with projectors and a 360° to do convoy movements.

[@shpladau]

I'm surprised you compared the Fatman fight to the first fight against Vulcan Raven, when I found it more similar to the second one, where he runs between crates and it becomes ideal to ambush him with traps.

[@TheMilhouseExperience]

1 thing to bring up is the “Nth country experiment.” Where 3 physicists, who just received their phds and had zero experience, managed to build a credible design for a nuclear weapon using only public information in 2 and 1/2 years. Although a highly redacted version of that 1964 experiment was declassified in 2003. So this probably wouldn’t have been known when making MGS2.

[@ManiacalForeigner]

Pardon my pedantry, but David Hahn did not die of radiation poisoning. He lived for another 20 years after his incomplete reactor was confiscated, and ultimately died of alcohol and drug intoxication in 2016. Also, he actually tried pulling the smoke detector stunt *again* in 2007, but got caught early.

[@Beardmo]

Yeah that was down to me misremembering, and confusing him with someone else who tried somethng similar and it not going so well.

[@K_Dog253]

Perhaps you'll mention it, but snake tells raiden from the beginning that the big shell is NOT a cleanup facility. He says this when raiden mentions toxic dioxins, or something like that. From the start, it is shown to you that raiden is in the dark, and everything he knows is pretty much false. In mgs1, snake goes through a similar experience, but it seems much more deep, nefarious, and complex for raiden.

[@DungeonBricks]

It just dawned on me: This IS, effectively, going to be a multipart podcast analysis. Yes, the 4 chapter format is good, don't get me wrong, yet it makes sense some games spread beyond that limit.

[@LPN00b]

I always thought it just takes as long as it needs to take. I prefer thorough analysis rather than 'wrapping up due to time constraints'

[@TectonicImprov]

They said they were dropping that 4 episode format in an update a few months ago. Unless I misunderstood what they meant.

[@BOSIE321]

Love the character of Fortune. No spoilers for the rest of the game but I was always disappointed how her story panned out. Brilliant idea for a character.

[@Dzzy123]

Fortune and her dilemma remind me a lot of Lord Byron's "Manfred." I was also a bit disappointed in how Fortune gets handled in the end.

[@MrRusty103]

Screw shrodinger's cat, Kojima's writing is the new standard. Is it brilliant, or is he just on crack again today. You can never be sure.

[@ShannonHallKC]

Raiden assumes it's the genes but it's the memes in terms of the bisexual vamp deal

[@LukeLavablade]

Wow, hearing Casen attempt a 'Peter Jackson' voice makes my kiwi heart laugh so hard. Great analysis as always guys, I really enjoyed Casen's points about memes seeming necessarily untrustworthy yet being all that's available. This game was so ridiculously ahead of the curve for this conversation.

[@awakebydefault]

Sons of Liberty was my first MGS game and I was extremely confused when I went to replay it after beating Plant to see there was a whole section of the game I missed because I said I hadn't played the first game in my initial playthrough.

[@soerpoet340]

I wonder if Mike and Casen will mention that Richard Ames is Nastasha's ex-husband

[@leoncrus]

In MGS V there is a story explanation that “Snake” is voiced by another actor.

[@K_Dog253]

Are you saying you didn't use the directional mic on the oil fence?

[@DJTS1991Yes]

Mike, you and Casen are doing a phenomenal job! Keep it up, man!

[@RokkouA1]

1:20:30 I used to think that Kojima wanted to make movies instead of games but in recent years I don't think that's the case anymore. I think Kojima knows that he is in a unique position to create works that no one else can. He can have his cake and eat it in the form of working with Hollywood while being able to tell stories in AAA games. If he really wanted to he could of stopped doing game development and instead create a film but he hasn't, he's actually working on 3 games right now, Death Stranding 2, OD and Physint. Also to give credit to Kojima, despite the reputation that his games are overly cinematic, rightfully so, the videogame parts are actually very mechanically rich and unique in ways that aren't possible to replicate in a film. He definitely did come into video-games to tell his stories where couldn't in the Japanese film industry but over time I think he realised the potential of videogames and has doubled down on it.

[@nicolasjonasson4820]

Thats true. I think the downfall of cinema and that Hollywood went out of style + video games exploding in popularity made for a perfect storm and a shift in culture. Today, the movie industry dwarfs next to the game industry, it's so much larger. Crazy.

[@mdude62]

I don't think it's silly for Fatman to think he'll become famous from blowing up the Big Shell, especially since it has the President and a former president on it at the time. I mean look at Guy Fawkes, that guy got famous and his didn't even succeed.

[@themeangene]

Yeah he's just seeking infamy so that his life has a purpose. For a lot of downtrodden individuals it's better to carry out an evil act than be forgotten. He wants to surpass his mentor by any means The other members of Dead Cell are sticking to an existing plan but FM doesn't seem to care.

[@Informal_H]

I think I heard in an interview with David Hayter that Hideo would make him audition for every game he was in.

[@Sentinel_ICBM]

He did. They didn't get along well by 3 or 4 and he wasn't brought back for 5. To be fair, Sutherland did a great job with venom snake though. I had read that Hideo wasn't a fan of his voice 'acting'.

[@Informal_H]

@@Sentinel_ICBM Sutherland wasn't bad, but he hardly talked. Some cut scene felt like a game with a silent protagonist.

[@detpistonsff7]

Super pumped to hear David Hayter reprising his role. For me, he is, and always will be, Solid Snake / Big Boss to me. Super disappointed in learning about Kojima's disinterest and general lack of respect towards him in favor of more widely known actors... Yet another reason MGS5 didnt connect with me (but there are plenty of additional reasons why I didnt enjoy MGS5 - it just didnt feel like MGS to me).

[@BertonMelch]

Yeah I was upset to about David not being in it but looking back now especially after you know the True ending of mgsv and it’s overall theme I’m kinda glad they didn’t use him. I think of mgsv as a part of the overall lore but not like a main game… kinda like an other world story inside of the existing metal gear lore.

[@fatguy321]

@@BertonMelch would have been even better if they used him for ground zeroes only

[@dannygrover595]

It's crazy how good this game is to spawn a theory that we didn't even play as Snake in MGS or the tanker section and that the entirety of MGS, Ghost Babel and MGS2 we were playing as Raiden doing VR training of all those missions 🤯

[@Under_Code]

While "laugh and grow fat!" at face value would simply refer to his 'Fatman' code name, the phrase implies a deeper meaning of knowledge, that to internalize something, requires it's consumption, involving senses and factors like taste, texture, smell and even sound. Raiden and Snake will also need this knowledge to locate and disable bombs.

[@CaffeinatedKing]

1:11:18 Without saying too much, the "whole other element" you're referring to isn't related to Foxdie, but it has been hinted at already in this game, mostly by Liquid. Actually, come to think, it was even more subtly hinted at in the form of a couple of comments made by characters in MGS1, though the MGS1 comments might be related to the fact that multiple years had passed between MG2 on MSX and MGS1

[@srswriter1165]

The comment Casen made about the murder mystery on a train makes me think he has been playing A Hat in Time.

[@midnightstrike3625]

After you complete the VR portion of the GBC game Metal Gear Solid Ghost Babel, the narrator will say to the player "Sleep well....Jack."

[@AlainSTO]

I love when you have to use the DMic to listen in on Ocelot/Solidus, you can move it over to the left and listen to that guy that was in the bathroom.

[@opinion_panda]

The radioactive Boy Scout robbed new construction buildings of their smoke detectors

[@nickburose8286]

Man this game is really hard to analyze i feel like. I feel like there is more depth to Fatman and his motivations than first meets the eye but it requires knowledge of the full plot. That being said, I feel like Fatman desiring fame as a bomber isn't that crazy, considering the Unabomber is quite infamous and has had multiple movies made about him, no? If the bomb under him actually destroyed the Big Shell, he would be directly responsible for killing the president. Doing so may have even foiled the terrorist's plans (I cant remember if they had full control over everything by that point)

[@LogosSteve]

Fatman is an extension of the world of illusion principle themes most of the game supports. He wants to be a famous bomber which all the themes coming from that say that's kind of pointless. Like Snake's lines about how there's not a lot of difference between heroes and madmen and of course at the end when he says there's no absolute reality.

[@LogosSteve]

Also obviously he represents Peter Stillman not passing on values which I said in my video however many years ago now. He is just being selfish.

[@K_Dog253]

There's also a school of anarchy that praises the terrorists of the past.

[@rmsgrey]

Also, it's worth making the point that names are just what people are called. The name Fatman may be more meaningful to him than whatever his parents used to call him. So his legacy being known by that name probably wouldn't have bothered him much, if at all.

[@JohnMuhaw-qu1wi]

⚠️ this is a spoiler for MGS2 It was revealed at the end by Revolver Ocelot at the end that Fatman was acting a checkpoint of sorts for the Patriots to test Raiden's efficacy as the memetic successor to Solid Snake. Should Raiden have failed to eliminate Fatman it would've meant the end & failure of the 'S3 Plan.'

[@benedict6962]

Regarding vamp: The vamp trope is more male than female. The seducing angle is about male vampires targeting innocent women, while the female vampire tropes focus more on drinking blood making them beatiful and young. But yes, the line reads more comedic about parodying the internal narrative characters make for their codenames.

[@themeangene]

I don't think the average corporations are telling devs to not do unique mechanics. I think the industry has focused more on presentation all else - we have to get past this obsession with graphical fidelity. With modern engines most teams are overwhelmingly devoted to visuals and animation. You don't even have a lot of actual programmers. It's mostly just scripting in the visual engine.

[@-eligos-8670]

I always felt like fat man was Kojima watching a little too much apocalypse now and thinking how he could put a Marlon Brando character in his game.

[@lionheart4424]

Third request to Mike and Casen to do another codec call skit but each role playing as Snake and Otacon respectively.

[@lynchaxxonn]

Isn't vamp like a sort of glam drag thing? Like think Bowie, rocky horror kinda campy sexual stuff. That's how I understood it always.

[@Chris-xr6jg]

I most appreciate games that can combine themes and gameplay. Y'all alluded to this, but I don't think you said it explicitly. It's awesome that a game that is about memes and how we interpret and pass down information, and that we sometimes have to settle and choose what we will believe with what best we have, also presents it's story in such a convoluted way, that you as a player have to make a decision on what you will believe, even if you are wrong.

[@dannygrover595]

I can't remember if you mentioned it. The introduction codec conversations with Campbell change based on if you played the tanker section.

[@rainmaker709]

Note that it is not a case of "back in the day" in regards to radioactive material in smoke detectors. This is still the case in most and is fundamental to how they actually work. The amount is minuscule so it isn't a safety concern but if you collect it or do something stupid like lick it, yeah, bad times.

[@fattmusiek5452]

The intros are soooo gooood

[@Newz1306]

I wonder if either Mike or Casen have seen Agness Kaku’s (MGS 2 translator) comments on Kojima being a horrible writer. I think she’s uncredited on this game partly because of how she reacted to the material and Konami’s work conditions. I could be wrong about that, it was a while ago when I read it but i do remember her doing interviews about the localization process and Kojima’s lack of writing skill

[@LogosSteve]

She did say things to that effect but, of course, she is still just the translator

[@Newz1306]

⁠@@LogosSteve Sure. I just thought of it because I always kinda half agreed with her even though I still love MGS 2 and the game succeeds sometimes admittedly in spite of Kojima’s crazy writing. But he’s for sure a great game director and that’s why MGS 2 is as legendary as it is.

[@casterforlife4995]

She does seem like a very bitter person with the way she keeps responding to stuff about MGS2 and only wants to take credit when people praise its themes

[@Newz1306]

@@casterforlife4995Oh for sure. But I will say, if I had to deal with Konami’s nonsense during a time when game localization was worse than it is today while working on something I thought was extremely subpar and not even getting my name in the credits after all that stress, then yeah I’d be a little bitter as well

[@seagullphilosopher2173]

I mean video game writing is pretty terrible across the board, with few exceptions even today. I can't remember many approaching truly literary status (perhaps something like Disco Elysium). Kojima is still a genius because of everything else he brings to his games and the concepts are cool. It is the same with other favoured video game stories. People love Xenogears as well because it has ambition relative to its peers with its high concepts and yet the writing undeniably sucks. I don't think MGS is as bad as xenogears but it is also carried by great voice work. All that said I see MGS kind of like the Philip K Dick of games. He's not a great writer but he is a genius at the conceptual level. This is what I get from Kojima, his ideas and the presentation get you thinking deeply about our own reality but I'm not paying too close attention to the line by line text because it isn't anything special but it is often hilarious and thought provoking. The vibes are just beautiful though with MGS. No idea about this translator but I don't necessarily feel they are wrong about Kojima's writing ability. You can have good ideas, a great theme...a good story even and still have terrible writing. I don't come to MGS for psychological realism though so that's OK.

[@MFF25]

i remember the first meaning i got from fat man was the Nagasaki Bomb, so the last thing he says made me automatically think of Major Kong in dr.strangelove, riding and laughing when the Big one is falling

[@Zelkiiro]

As for the nanocommunication "telepathy," I always interpreted it as the characters talking very, very quietly, so that their voice is only audible to the vibration in their ears, which the Codec is said to stimulate and transmit through.

[@detpistonsff7]

The conversation surrounding switching up gameplay and the addition of mini-games can make a gaming experience much more enjoyable, I 100% agree with. This is why FFXVI didnt connect with me as much just because there were no mini -games and no real RPG mechanics to spice up the game. So the action gameplay far extended its normal "action game" playtime for me and I got bored of it halfway in. This is where I think FFVII Rebirth knocked it out of the park. There were so many switch ups in gameplay and tons of mini-games that made me not get tired of it in its 100+ hour runtime. One of my all-time favorite gaming experiences.

[@taharmebarki660]

Naughty dog devs from way back up until now were and are mgs fans, uncharted was a by product of the influence of mgs. Imo naughty dog games are exactly that, they switch up gameplay so much even though non of these gameplay mechanics are good(imo), gow tries to recreat that , and the ff16 tries to recreate gow without taking into consideration this aspect of the game.

[@LrnecBuma]

A lot of that is thanks to the originals veriety of mini games. I think mike and Casen need to do a yakuza game for the podcast and explore the more modern side of very simply action combat system with story told through absurd minigames

[@BillyMaurice]

I went straight from SNES to PS2 (had a PC), and I was one of those people who did go straight to MGS2 and played MGS after. I don't know what I chose but I did do the Tanker mission first, and had no idea Plisken was anyone, and didn't know anything about the love affair with the voice actor. I very much took things at face value going into it and in some ways made the twist of the game MORE interesting to my 15 year old brain.

[@ProxyDoug]

Maybe the seductress aspect of Vamp is a stand in for a succubus

[@Brando853]

as you guys are so focused on storytelling, have you every thought of doing To The Moon (and the rest of the saga)?

[@AshenVictor]

I have to talk about the Selfish Gene again here because there's a misunderstanding going on. A selfish gene can 100% cause the organism to self-sacrifice in order to benefit *other copies of the gene* in other organisms. That's why it's the selfish *gene* not the selfish *organism* . If a gene has a 20% chance of existing among the population, then it benefits from causing a behaviour which sacrifices the individual organism to preserve six others even totally unrelated strangers. That behaviour causes, on average, *more copies of the gene* to survive which is what all genes seek to do. This is most obvious in offspring because offspring will always have a 50% chance of containing a copy of any gene in the parent so self-sacrifice for an offspring is favourable behaviour to every gene 50% of the time so they are all pushing for it. The lesson of the selfish gene is that your genes don't care about *you* they care about *copies of themselves* no matter where they are.

[@LogosSteve]

Liquid also literally explains this in MGS1 by the way. About how blood relatives' altruism for family members is a response to natural selection so their shared genes survive.

[@rmsgrey]

You also share half your genes (on average, but the genome is large enough that the random error can be ignored) with your full siblings - and their children share the same amount of DNA with you as your own grandchildren. Obviously, spouses share no more genes than with anyone else from the same village/clan/whatever, but your spouse has a similar genetic investment in your kids' survival, and a potentially pregnant wife might be carrying your genes that way too. So there's a lot of selection pressure toward sacrificing yourself for your nuclear family. Separately, there's also a clear advantage to promoting the survival of any entity who will in turn promote the survival of your kind, even if they, themselves, don't share any genes with you.

[@houseofgames3657]

55:18 I feel like FF7 Rebirth did a good job and went all out with the gold saucer and mini games / extra content

[@SanValentin199]

Im finding really hard to live knowing that life is, as Casen said "a sea of confusion, a memetic landscape". I know the game is supposed to teach me the value of leaving my own... But man, its so hard to believe in anything when nothing is really real

[@NPlayer-2000]

1:17:00 They are not re recording but I think they add dialogue

[@phillosmaster393]

I'd like to offer a different opinion on the Snake/Pliskin reveal. I'm not sure the Japanese experience is better. I think that it's so obvious and ridiculous in the american version that makes it better. Even if they had the same voice actor honestly who would be tricked. It's still a pretty obvious arc regardless and the visual clues are all still there. I kinda like this sort of lame and comedic reveal in the american version before the actual impressive reveals later in the game. To go back to the magic trick comparison that is also a tactic of the stage magician. Start with a lame trick to or a fumbled trick and then follow that up with a excellent trick on purpose to heighten it's impact. The Amazing Johnathan used to do that all the time to great effect. The Pliskin "secret" always really tickled me when I played this game. I thought it was really funny.

[@Meatslinger2323]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned or off topic for this particular video, but I’ve been thinking a lot about the obvious snake reveal. I’m wondering if it was more of a joke than an attempt at a magic trick. I recall you guys mentioning Kojima’d love for 80s action movies, and every time I see plyskin I think of Arnold Schwartzeneggar or Jean Claude wearing a hat and sunglasses and absolutely no one recognizes them

[@arcturionblade1077]

Peter Stillman is totally Louis Gossett Jr. (particularly the Iron Eagle movies).

[@LogosRespeckter]

I was gonna say it reminds me a lot of Zeta Gundam (no guys, I’m totally not Char, I’m a rando name Quattro. You believe me, right?)

[@ultimateshadeofwar]

Look the problem with that way of designing now days, it's that programmers are expensive, like you have to pay them for hour, not solid salary, and every hour they spend coding, it isn't just a few bucks, they quickly reach 100 in a few hours. So ironically programmers the core to making videogames, have become an expensive problem, so you want them working on designing the systems, but not too much because the budget can't take it, so you have to make each buck you spend on a system worth it, which means that you can repeatly use that system they made.

[@themeangene]

Yeah I made a similar post. Most teams nowadays are overwhelmingly designers, artists and scriptors. Very few people program using C languages because the team is using a pre-built engine. I don't think companies are telling them to not put in secondary gameplay. I've worked for small to medium studies about 5 years ago and we were encouraged to put in more variety

[@killscreen7519]

Peter Stillman seems an allusion to Mathew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

[@aarons.2323]

I think "Laugh and grow fat!" just sort of took on its own memetic status within the MGS fandom probably just because it's a silly line said by a memorable villain. I do think it's one of the most memorable lines in the game, but there's no context as to why, really. I think "I need scissors. 61!" is far more memorable, but that's because it's from such a batshit crazy scene and it's at the height of the insanity so it's kind of unsettling (because it also includes a purple worm and a tuning fork).

[@kingofthesharks]

54:30 I know there's an anti-interest in the FF7 Retrilogy project here, but I'd just point out that Rebirth (miraculously as a AAA title) has an incredible commitment to gameplay diversity in both mandatory and optional ways. It drip feeds you with quality mini-games and systems that are JUST easy enough for everyone to overcome the first time, but have tiered-rewards and cutscenes if you take a genuine interest and wanna get higher scores. I got star-rank on every possible mini-game, they're THAT fun/rewarding! Even in the mandatory combat sections, there's enough diversity with enemy strategies/weaknesses (similar to old RPGs) that keep the main gameplay mechanic from drying out.

[@TechDadImpact]

What's the music used in your videos? There's a tune playing in the beginning and end of your videos and seems to hit me in the feels every time it starts playing. Great video (as tends to be the case)! Also, I need to comment about the similarities between the first and this one. As I was playing MGS 2 back in the early 2000's, I remember complaining to my roommates how they just rehashed the first game, and made you play it through with a ladyboy. In retrospect, I understand what Kojima was doing, but back then I felt they were just being cheap.

[@LPN00b]

if has the feel of a monster hunter gathering hall tune but I can't quite place it

[@JustinBrown-z4i]

Watch that Kojima video!! Seriously. I think it will add a lot to your analysis

[@themeangene]

I don't like Kojima using Hollywood actors. It just pulls me out of his recent games. PT is incredible but I'm glad Silent Hills didn't use celebrity lookalikes. Of any series SH should be one of the last giving you famous faces. MGS is inspired by 80s action films and Japan theater. You have to approach these stories with that in mind when encountering the exaggerations. Not everything lands or has symbolic significance but we can't compare MGS plots and characters to more realistic modern productions. Ironically I think Hollywood would have eaten Kojima alive.

[@andrewday4008]

Death Stranding also has so many parallels

[@raphaelm.darocha9206]

What’s the goal for next week for those following the game club format?

[@nicolasjonasson4820]

"What's the hardest thing about roller blading?"

[@ManiacalForeigner]

Telling your parents you're gay.

[@sammadden5540]

Brb, reclaiming vamp for the Bi's in the audience

[@Zelkiiro]

My problem with Fatman is that it feels like Kojima gave him way, way too many quirks for a character who only exists in 1 scene. Rollerblades + wine + drank through a straw + feminine hands + grandiose ambitions + "Laugh and grow fat!"

[@wegogiant]

What version of the game asks if you played MGS1 exactly? I don't remember that ever happening in 2. In MGS3 there's a prompt that asks you if you prefer MGS1 or MGS2 (you can also say you've never played before) and this effects some Easter eggs in the game. Did they add it for the Master Collection?

[@mazrimtaim86]

The original "Sons of Liberty" PS2 release.

[@wegogiant]

@mazrimtaim86 Okay, I did a little searching around. It looks like this has never been in any US release of the game. This was only ever in the Japanese and PAL format versions (interestingly the US version in 2001 was the first one made available, and the Japanese version was released 2 weeks later)

[@Civilchaos]

@@wegogiantthat’s very interesting. All these years I would never have guessed that all the US market that played this game on release didn’t get asked if they played the first or not. The fact you could miss the tanker by not answering that question was the biggest deal at the time. But by 3 you did get the question? Now I’m wondering if you skip the Virtuous Mission by saying no in 3? I remember the question but could never imagine skipping that mission, it feels sacrilege to even consider missing it, it sets the main plot threads for the rest of the game. I wonder why this only happened in US for MGS2.

[@wegogiant]

@Civilchaos The question in 3 was something like "Which Metal Gear is your favorite?" And the options were 1, 2, or I've never played. If you picked 2 then Snake would be wearing the Raiden mask in the intro cutscene and there would be an added scene of him removing it. None of the options skipped any portions of the game. In the Subsistence release they added a "MGS3 is my favorite" option that makes some optional camos available immediately. Normally you would only get them after completing the game once since they weren't in the original release of 3

[@jsizzle-o7p]

we gotta get these likes up

[@SlitheringStevePhilips]

At like 55 mins about mixing up gameplay, you need to play rebirth Not a great game for the show I think, but that game spends 50+ hours having you do different stuff, it’s such an ambitious game in the recent age of safe stale games

[@Mezmero]

There's a difference between bespoke gameplay sections in a linear game and mandatory mini-games that are meant to introduce side activities.

[@TheShugoBR]

37:40 with the radiactive waste that is not properly disposed like x-ray machines and stuff like that XD i don't doubt a kid couldn't make a nuclear bomb at home XD

[@killscreen7519]

See Kyle Hill for some wild radiation stories. The tragic ones are people coming into contact with radioactive materials and having no idea the danger they pose

[@orcbrand]

Vamp is a slang term that refers to a anyone who uses her beauty and charm to exploit. It can also be used as a verb to describe the act of flirting or teasing in a manipulative way. I have in fact seen this term used to refer to "seductive" young MEN in some older literature as well. It is an archaic term but Kojima isn't pulling this one out of nowhere. I think I also read Griffith from Berserk described that way 😆

[@orcbrand]

Also, it is worth noting the time period in which MGS2 came out: 2001. The bisexual vampire craze was already full on with Anne Rice, Interview with a Vampire, ttrpg Vampire: the Masquerade was gaining traction (although the infamous cult classic "Bloodlines" would not be released.... until the day MGS3 came out...)... and vampires were, for the lack of a better word... gay coded in 2001. They called Vamp Vamp before he got his nanomachines, and he just leaned into the theme afterwards.... is how I justify it to myself, at least.

[@ArcanumRonin]

51:42 Unreal engine calls them game modes

[@vandal1630]

Sky children of the light def has great lore to explore

[@DonMiguelLaBestia]

I personally like kiefer taking over as older big boss… after MGS5 I thought they should have remade MG1 and MG2 with hayter as solid snake and kiefer as big boss, that would have been epic! Hayter talking to hayter wouldn’t work imo

[@AceBadguy]

Have a great day, everyone.

[@dannygrover595]

I wouldn't necessarily think Konami getting David Hayter was a nice thing for fans, you said Kojima didn't like Hayter's Snake (David has said he had to reaudition on each game). Could this be more of Konami slighting Kojima one more time by getting Hayter back? 😅

[@taharmebarki660]

I could write an essay on how much kojima's obsession with hollywood celebrities annoys me, it was there since mgsv but i wasn't disappointed as other fans, but as time went on , seeing his posts on twitter, playing death stranding, and reading his interviews when it comes to actors, it really started to get on my nerves because i think his philosophy with actors and storytelling hurts his vision far more than he realises and there aren't many games coming out today that say something like he tries to.

[@Dzzy123]

I don't mind him using celebrity voice actors, but he shouldn't use their faces in the game.

[@taharmebarki660]

@Dzzy123 i don't mind him using them or their faces (although I think he shouldn't have used norman reedus face in DS) Its just the reasons on why he does it stems from insecurity, he wants to feel like a big hollywood director in front of other hollywood bigshot, he doesn't hire them because of their performance or any meaningful reason, he does so just because they are hollywood actors.

[@themeangene]

Keep in mind the MGS universe isn't our own. It's an alt history with a more advanced technological landscape and where media and entertainment are far more openly interconnected with espionage and wars. It's a a bit of satirical hyperbole similar to some types of theater or B films

[@nicolasjonasson4820]

I think you would be surprised.

[@VCR_Repairman]

I always got Louis gossette JR. vibes from Peter Stillman

[@arcturionblade1077]

Iron Eagle!

[@EddieDean1]

vamp bi thing is super old slang im old and have been out longer than this game it was a thing in some circles you could almost call it a lost meme

[@khanofsetta]

I really wish we had a jp voice option for all games i both like it more and it works better for the story.

[@LPN00b]

doesn't the master collection add this for 1, 2 and 3?

[@khanofsetta]

@@LPN00b Don't know don't own it.

[@LPN00b]

@@khanofsetta i played 1 in japanese on the master collection so I can confirm that