Lawyer explains why Gibson will defeat DiMarzio

In response to our Gibson v DiMarzio video, a number of viewers asked about how a company can trademark a color. Blues Lawyer, Matt Esquire digs into the DiMarzio and Gibson kerfuffle over double cream humbucker guitar pickups.

[@GuitarsZnuff]

Thank you for bringing up the lack of hex or pantone color. I do think Dimarzio will lose the trademark, but once that happens, I doubt another guitar company will be able to trademark a pickup color successfully. It's amazing that Dimarzio was able to hold the trademark this long.

[@blueslawyer]

Aged, cream, off, whatever white will be back in the hands of the people

[@TheGhostGuitars]

​@@blueslawyer Damn straight yes. Pardon the language!

[@paulkreeft2091]

Dimarzio recently released a 57 paf, specs wise it’s an exact copy of a Gibson 57 .

[@mustuddd]

Love the Les Paul Custom tri-burst hanging on the wall. I sold mine to buy an engagement ring. Worth it, but I really miss that guitar.

[@blueslawyer]

It's good that everything worked out on the engagement side and hopefully one day that guitar will come back to you!

[@paulkreeft2091]

Gibson released a 57 double classic white which is actually cream coloured.

[@blueslawyer]

Exactly. Getting out there to test the waters

So informative this post! I can see Gibson's view and most likely they are going after DiMarzio. Suits have work to do! Happy New Year 2024. Greetings from Hollywood California.

[@blueslawyer]

Happy New Year! Go play some guitar!

[@flyoverbassin8959]

I think that they'll lose the color configuration trademark. I wonder if the phrase "Double Cream" might be able to be trade marked, if the use of the word "cream" ,to describe an off white color, following the word double, to describe two similar bobbins, was popularized by someone associated with DiMarzio. The color configuration itself, there is no way that should be able to be trademarked. However, if they lose the color, they'll probably lose the phrase too.

[@blueslawyer]

@@flyoverbassin8959 double vintage white sounds pretty good to me

[@jacobbockover1628]

I like that window. My guess is gibson will (if they win) will release their own pickups (paf double cream) then try to trade mark them. I do think pickups are gibsons "strong point" i in fact recognize the danarzio sets all the way back to when i was a kid

[@blueslawyer]

Gibson pickups are elite on their own, for sure

[@doug4764]

if by “elite” you mean the only thing that they can build (relatively) consistently that somewhat justifies the price then yes, I agree. companies like Lollar eat their lunch.

[@blueslawyer]

@@doug4764 well you haven't tried a double cream Gibson PAF yet. Then you'll be blown away

[@alfsmith4936]

I don't think there's any point trademarking the colour of a bobbin anymore. It's just old tech now.

[@danthegeetarman]

Yeah I don’t foresee Larry dimarzio winning this one. If you ask anyone what PAF is the first thought is Gibson. I’ve never met one single person who has ever associated PAF with dimarzio lol same with double cream humbucker. Lastly, as a graphic designer, if I worked for a company like Gibson or any of those other ones all you have to do is change the hex code by character and it’s different. There is so many different shades of cream and other colors as well that look just as identified to the average eye. So even if dimarzio was allowed to keep the double cream, and comes up with a hex code, anyone with a computer mouse can alter it by .1 inches on the color scale to get a new hex code and voilà - cream but not THEIR hex code

[@blueslawyer]

What do you think about Seymour Duncan putting their name on the front of all their pickups, but DiMarzio and Gibson leave you guessing?

[@AC-ed7yr]

For once, it's a Gibson lawsuit that will actually be good for the consumer if they win. Since there are old quotes floating around from DiMarzio saying he based his double cream pickup design on what an original PAF looked like after he took the cover off, it's hard to imagine how Gibson wouldn't prevail here. There's ample evidence that Gibson made them before DiMarzio did, and it's not like Gibson is going to own this trademark afterwards, so DiMarzio will still be able to manufacture them if they lose.

[@blueslawyer]

You hit the nail on the head. I'm already getting my order of double cream 500T set up

[@tomsawyer2112]

We consumers pay the price of their legal battles to weaken, strengthen, or abolish firms in a market. Seems to be part of their advertising budget, including the payments to influencers on video and social medias. For 30 years, I've owned a low-cost Jaysound guitar with single coil pickups. Today in my studio, they sound as clear and noiseless as the 500€ Kinman Broadcaster Tele Set. Kinman was previously a victim of DiMarzio's legal trademark/patent battle on competition. The hunter ultimately gets hunted.😁

[@PaulBaker85]

I do feel like there's a certain irony in trademarking the phrase 'patent applied for'. However, what I do understand is that now is the time to stock up on certain DiMarzio pickups lest they suddenly vanish from the market.

[@blueslawyer]

DiMarzio wouldn't vanish, you could just get a 500T in double cream or a Duncan PAF

[@alfsmith4936]

Oh no! I can't sell my 58 Gretsch anniversary now..

[@angusorvid8840]

DiMarzio can still survive without double cream and PAF, so long as they don't spend too much money fighting it. They would be better off spending their money designed and promoting new pickups. I've used a lot of their pickups and like them. I've been familiar with DiMarzio having these odd trademarks about as long as I've been playing guitar, so since the mid 80s. It was never anything I focused my mind on, but it would come up now and then with certain players, techs, and music shop owners I knew. I talked to a lot of players who refused to use DiMarzios because they hated the fact that DiMarzio even had these trademarks. For me, it was never a big concern. But the more I think about it, as this case gets rolling, the more ridiculous these trademarks become. Given the arguments I've heard against DiMarzio's trademarks on this channel and others, I see nothing less than victory for Gibson. If it comes down to legal muscle, DiMarzio can't hold a candle to Gibson which is a huge company with much more moola.

[@blueslawyer]

Thanks for the comment! I think it'll be interesting and I'm curious if Gibson will release the 75th Anniversary PAF to compete with DiMarzio 36th Anniversary PAF.

[@angusorvid8840]

Nothing against DiMarzio's PAFs, I think they make good pickups, but if anyone can build a solid PAF it's Gibson.@@blueslawyer

[@NotThatKraken]

You can change the blue value by one out of 256 values and not have the same color and not violate the trademark, though no human could tell the difference.

[@blueslawyer]

What is the saying, something something law something something intent?

[@angusorvid8840]

I can't wait to buy a double cream Duncan Custom in celebration.

[@blueslawyer]

Yasssss

[@angusorvid8840]

Are you familiar with the lawsuit DiMarzio brought against Boss for their DF-2 way back in 1984? It was originally named the Super Distortion & Feedbacker. DiMarzio claimed it as infringement.@@blueslawyer

[@blueslawyer]

@@angusorvid8840 I did hear about that... Might be a fun topic for a video

[@TheGhostGuitars]

I think by now, BOTH "double creams" and PAF has by now reached public domain status. TBH, I think it was public domain in the first place because; 1) DiMarzio has no right to the trademarks it in first place. 2) Gibson forfeited rights to them due to not promptly contesting DiMarzio AND failing to file their OWN trademarks in the first place. …like as if THEY could hold onto them now. The Gibson of the old days were notoriously (after the fact) poor at properly filing trademarks and copyrights in a timely manner.

[@putridfox8450]

Then theyll charge a premium

[@blueslawyer]

It would probably be the same price as normal 490s or Burstbuckers with double cream instead of zebra.

[@marksaulnier2222]

As much as I hate Gibson consolidating more power, PAF and cream pickup's as a trademark is ridiculous. However, Gibson seems to have the law on their side for equally ridiculous claims, so who knows.

[@blueslawyer]

Gibson winning would free up Gibson, Seymour Duncan, etc to produce double creams... Which would be nice for variety's sake

[@marksaulnier2222]

Patents make a lot more sense to me than trade marks. Rewarding innovation and return on R&D by granting monopoly status for a period then encouraging subsequent competition, I believe everyone wins. If trademarks simply discouraged misrepresentation of one entity pretending to be another, I would be all for it. However, as a lay person, I dont see that connection when Gibson has a legal right to shut down other producers (certainly not consistently) for manufacturing certain shapes, under their own brand, I consider to be generic, narrow in scope in terms of practical use (single cut, double cut, ect) This seems to me anti fair trade. But then again, who knows. @@blueslawyer

[@jamesonpace726]

I'm for Larry, but it sure doesn't look good....

[@blueslawyer]

Sometimes the law isn't on your side. They make great pickups and I don't see sales being impacted by a color being available or a PAF mark being available to other brands.

[@user-ky3gm3gq2n]

Couldn't care less...

[@blueslawyer]

Nice. What do you like to play?

[@darkphotographer]

look like a big load ,, at some point a car manufacture will trad make the colour black so no other car can use the colour black , dibson dose not sale new guitars because the are to expensive and ther are better option out ther for same or less money , so the start sue everybody , just like the music industry that copyrigth strike every video with music on youtube iven if is a cover ,

[@blueslawyer]

To be fair, Gibson makes some of the best pickups available. DiMarzio has a shaky claim to their color trademark and probably isn't getting sales based solely on the color anyway.

[@darkphotographer]

no so sure , friend bring is gibson and play it with my amp , and my cheapo yamaha or squire sound better , actualy had much more gain ,@@blueslawyer