LIVE! Jury Wants To Hang In Karen Read Trial - Judge Won't Let Them? Why Would Read Want That?

#lawyeryouknow #karenread
View the entire Karen Read playlist here: • Karen Read
Chapters:
00:00 Welcome
00:46 Intro
01:57 Jury Note - Unable to reach Verdict
17:56 Q&A
22:06 Tuey-Rodriguez Instructions
26:47 Q&A
31:20 Tuey-Rodriguez Instructions
33:05 Q&A
34:25 Alternate Tuey-Rodriguez Instructions
38:06 Q&A
44:07 Tuey-Rodriguez Instructions Notes
47:34 Q&A
54:40 Tuey-Rodriguez Instructions Notes
58:00 Judge Instructions To Jury
1:02:43 Q&A
1:43:12 Live - Jurors Note To Keep Working
1:44:20 Q&A
2:19:25 Live - Jurors Going Home For The Day
2:21:02 Q&A
2:24:17 Conclusion
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SUPERCHATS & DISCLAIMER - 1. Superchats read out are not to be taken as my opinion nor endorsed by me. 2. Questions are answered on best efforts based on my knowledge and jurisdiction.
🔴 NOT LEGAL ADVICE

[@paytensplace5046]

As someone who started watching this with 0 knowledge of the case, I do not see how ANYONE could find her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This is so crazy to me!

[@beverlybwilliams]

This case has a fear factor for the jurors of restitution. Or worse harassements. Maybe even financial repercussion.

[@VideoUser261]

That’s my situation, as well. I can’t believe they even brought this case to trial

[@user-ve9wm8xs7z]

Same here! Did they watch the same trial that we did? It seems this community is pro cop and they all drink together know ea other etc I’m pro law enforcement myself but these cops were off the chain and had zero credibility

[@brirashrn5445]

It's obvious one or more of the jury is working with the Alberts. There needs to be better protection for the juries infact the jurors should be a mirrored glass like a police station so no one in the court room can know their identies... So that our justice system can do a fair trial. It's so easy to identify a jury in the court room if you have seen their faces. The Albert clan research and persuaded the jurors..... This is BS our justice system needs to disguised our jury

[@theConquerersMama]

Same

[@sythmc8600]

My husband is a police officer and trust me, I have no issue seeing these officers were corrupt, sloppy; they lied, and covered up. I’d have not only found Karen Read “not guilty,” I’d have yelled it from the roof top!

[@Carryonandlaugh]

Mine as well and he is so angry that these cops have lied so blatantly and covered up an actual crime. He said this is why people hate police! It doesn’t matter if it is only a couple, those couple of bad apples rot the barrel and the good ones are seen as too few! Sad state of affairs that the good suffer and the bad get to bring them all down. He asked why was the case allowed to proceed after the sallyport video doctoring…who knows.

[@LatexSpouse]

Did your neighbors come running out, lol? I had to. Lol

[@kimberlylaughner5067]

I wish you were on the Jury!!

[@brianwebber6996_ROADHUNTER]

ACAB!! FTP!!

[@brianwebber6996_ROADHUNTER]

Oath breaking road pirates!!

[@lvwbippi]

When I saw the marks on his arm I knew they couldn’t be caused by a vehicle. I don’t understand what they are deliberating.

[@TealandViolet]

Defies common sense.

[@beachgirl4truth672]

In hindsight, I wish AJ would’ve spent MORE time defining and emphasizing the absolute IMPORTANCE of “reasonable DOUBT” during his closing arguments!! That said, Turtleboy’s video of the McAlberts confronting, assaulting, and threatening him in public just a few days ago, proved to me that they are a close knit group of entitled bullies that think they’re above the law!! This encounter was was in broad daylight when they were likely sober, so I can only imagine how they act when drunk, behind closed doors!!😡PRAYING for Karen Read.🙏🙏

[@nnelg8139]

The first thing I heard of this trial was about Turtleboy... And after seeing how he'd acted back then, I frankly think he deserves whatever's coming to him. He's just another ***hole who's riling up hate for views, exploiting this cluster**** mess of a situation to make easy ragebait. That isn't justice, that's lynch mobbing.

[@t.t6191]

I think they are above the law because look at what's happening. It's pretty clear cops are above the law. Smh.

[@Hadacattoo2]

Who is turtle boy? I must've missed this?

[@ilovenalewives]

@@beachgirl4truth672 Nothing screams reasonable doubt louder than blood evidence collected in red solo cups!! 🥤🥤

[@brirashrn5445]

​@@Hadacattoo2turtle boy was a boy who turned into a turtle and he protects Karen

[@VideoUser261]

They never even proved he was killed by a car. So crazy

[@priscillamoscatt]

I was on a jury panel a little over a year ago and the experience left me traumatized. It wasn't only the nature of the crime that shocked me. It was deliberating with 11 strangers, each with their own life experiences and interpretations of the evidence that was the real eye-opener. It was truly upsetting and frustrating. Nothing in life prepares you for the weight of such responsibility.

[@dollface2917]

God that’s awful. I’m from UK and it’s pretty rare to get called, where I live. I have mental health problems and often wonder what I’d do if I was called. I’ve been through enough trauma, but it seems, at least in the U.S, that it takes a lot to get out of it. I hope you’re doing okay now, and that you got help if you needed it ❤

[@JojoCharli]

I believe the only reason the jury is struggling is due to the fact that the judge seems to have gone out of her way to make the jury confused not with the facts or evidence but the jury instructions and convoluted charges. I 100% blame the judge

[@lululiga333]

Totally agree. She deliberately confused them with her crazy convoluted end speech. Shes so for a guilty vote and knows the people involved. She’s a disgrace.

[@joditurrisi6004]

Exactly

[@fernandaolivares7926]

That judge has been a disgrace througout the whole trial...

[@LilyBecca]

I completely agree with this

[@reneearnett8761]

AGREE

[@jeaninea5029]

I imagine all those jurors who live in that town are thinking about their own safety with all these crooked cops on the force.

[@pennyhuls2607]

Absolutely!!

[@pj3341]

@@jeaninea5029 It’s a District court. It’s not a Town Court.

[@t.t6191]

Well why would you want to live under such corruption. If you know and do nothing then you deserve it.

[@leanwithlauren]

I think this is why they aren't coming to a not guilty decision. They are afraid of retaliation. If they claim to be unable to make a decision, then they can run from this case but if they came back with NG then they would have to watch their backs in fear of the police and everyone else tied into this web of lies. How can the jury not be scared? Going into that courthouse every day with so many protesting outside and then having the prosecution and their witnesses starring the jury down.. I'm sure they are scared. Who wouldn't be? A hung jury is the only safe way they can get out of this case. So much corruption! I'd be selling my house this weekend if I was on that jury.

[@sngray11]

And the McAlberts’ influence on that county and community. smh.

[@YukonAML]

If someone is deadlocked I am convinced it means they read rumours on the case. I have watched the trial with zero prior knowledge and no outside news and it is impossible to not see this as extreme reasonable doubt

[@maryblais7791]

A juror from Ma is a moonbat ! Always wierd people , not the normal citizen .

[@kristybolsover2652]

Same I only discovered this a week ago I'm from Australia but there was enough reasonable doubt for me to give a NG verdict based on the words beyond a reasonable doubt my personal opinion of guilty or not doesn't matter as I believe regardless it wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt

[@hyzmarca2737]

I think the moral certainty instruction is a problem. Because that encourages jurors to ignore the evidence and go with their emotions. Like lets say you believe she's innocent, but also think she's kind of a b word. And you sympathize with the family and want them to feel better. Isn't the morally correct thing to do to sacrifice the innocent person to comfort the victims family? It could certainly feel that way to some people. So the moral certainty instruction was pretty bad. Jurors stop arguing the fact and start arguing morality and emotions and who gets hurt by the verdict and who deserves to get hurt by the verdict. Like, if Adolf Hitler somehow survived today and were on trial for stealing a backpack in New York, I'd feel morally certain in convicting him even if he has a rock solid alibi. Because he's Hitler, we know he's guilty of something even if it's not the crime specified and it would be very immoral to let him go free.

[@RichardZabielski-ql9ss]

I think not everyone has the capability to judge without emotion. Someone's holding up the not guilty verdict simply bc they don't like how Karen Read looks or acts.

[@videos-li5ys]

Peter, if the taxpayers who are paying this bill for this jury in for this circus wanted to influence the shenanigans ending, how could the taxpayers do it? Who did the taxpayers need to prevail upon to get the judge to move forward and let the jury go?

[@elizabethmessitt1276]

Watching from Ireland. I am so shocked that anybody can consider her Guilty. Ive watched all trial and evidence. Have never seen a trial like this. It was stated he wasnt hit by a car. Case closed.

[@Resmith18SR]

So it was also stated that he was hit by a car. She's Guilty.

[@silvioalgieri6218]

From Ireland too n totally agree. Watched every min of the trial. Karen is innocent

[@D64nz]

​@@Resmith18SRstated but completely disproven that he was hit by a car. They couldn't even put KR in the car, the car at the house or the body at the house at that time.😊

[@Deondra72]

@@Resmith18SRdo you mean Trooper Paul testimony that he was struck on the arm and his arm stuck there and got shred up quickly before being thrown 30 feet? That’s statement was clearly “debunked” by several experts.

[@t.t6191]

​@@Resmith18SRwho stated that?

[@louise2257]

No one in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA should EVER feel threatened or afraid to do what is RIGHT!!!

[@user-uh5lf7uk1k]

right, but it happens everyday

[@chantalgates9018]

Not surprised that their may be a hung jury. It takes only one juror to mess it up!

[@t.t6191]

In a perfect world it would be nice however that's not reality.

[@edrathephoenix]

@@chantalgates9018. Mess it up or follow their impressions after the trial?

[@brirashrn5445]

Who tf is this jury trying to hang it up. MF u better hope I don't find you

[@mad_scadd89]

I've never seen more reasonable doubt in any case that I've followed.

[@theConquerersMama]

Pretty much every day, multiple times a day something came up that was reasonable doubt- even in the CWs case.

[@mad_scadd89]

@@theConquerersMama exactly!

[@lilgnomey]

I don’t understand how it was okay to throw Aiden Kearney out of the court room when the Alberts were on the stand, but it’s perfectly okay for the Alberts and McCabes - not to mention O’Keefe’s brother with his death stare - to be staring down the jury every time they’re in the room. Why is one considered intimidation and the other isn’t? To me, that just backs up the favouritism toward these families. It’s gross.

[@enigma_-_79]

The O’Keef family have the right to reserved seating to invite people to hear closing arguments . They invited the Albert family. Turtle boy has already been to jail for witness intimidation and has more charges pending. See the difference?

[@teedeed5390]

@@enigma_-_79yeh but when u look into his case it will be thrown out these ppl don’t appear to be afraid of anyone at this point Karen is innocent end of story I am in Scotland no dog in fight looks like a movie plot.

[@WillyEarl098]

​@@enigma_-_79no that wasn't justification, if there's mean mugging by them, regardless of reserve seating that's silly.

[@meavey38]

It totally shocks me with all the expert testimony regarding dog bites on the arm and that he was not hit by a vehicle. That someone even thinks that this is possible with the real evidence

[@beverlybwilliams]

Those folks didn't believe the last three expert witness.

[@jennyfox5949]

I totally agree!

[@MissisChannel]

DID YOU CATCH THAT THE JURY INSTRUCTIONS WERE ACCUSING KAREN READ OF BEATING JOHN OKEEFE TO DEATH? AFTER HE REALIZES THE TAIL LIGHT KILLING HIM IS NOT GOING TO WORK HE ACCUSES HER AFTER NOT ONLY NOT PRESENTING ANY EVIDENCE SHE BEAT HIM, AND ARGUED WITH ANYONE SUGGESTING HE WAS BEATEN INSTEAD OF KILLED BY THE CAR, HE PRESENTS IN THE 2ND DEGREE MURDER CHARGE SHE BEAT HIM TO DEATH!!! LIKE WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT THAT? I JUST DID A VIDEO OF THE INSTRUCTION TO JURY SAYING THAT NO WONDER THEY ARE CONFUSED!

[@Princelover-ip4gn]

The CW own ME said that the injuries “were inconsistent with being struck by a vehicle.” The Manner of Death is UnDetermined. In Texas- the DA can NOT file charges for this Manner of Death- regardless of the evidence!

[@primalcritters]

I'm telling you 11 jurors walked out yesterday looking downcast and as if they had a really long day and one emerged smiling. There is one hold out and the other 11 are not guilty. The other 11 are extremely frustrated trying to teach physics and medicine to the one hold out

[@kittmcintyre2853]

Where did you get that detail?

[@spalanki352]

Lol, long day? Please, they've been having weeks off between trial days, and they never went for more than 6 hours on those days. Tired and long day, my a**

[@elizabethmanka8106]

Was it the 30 ish year old female with glasses? TB picked her as who he thought was the holdout.

[@prisonersdilemma939]

You have it backwards. It’s 11-1 for Murder 2. Only one juror wants to convict is a lesser charge. That juror will come around on Monday and she’ll be convicted of Murderer 2. She’ll be sentenced to life in prison in August.

[@kittmcintyre2853]

@@prisonersdilemma939 either you don’t understand the definition of reasonable doubt or your trolling.

[@hollypgh84]

I was on a jury once (armed robbery) many years ago. I was able to help jurors come to a non-guilty verdict by explaining what reasonable doubt is (the suspect had a brother who resembled him. And no video footage or any evidence other than the victims testimony). It is very interesting and important to serve on a jury and hope you all get to experience it once in your life. I feel Karen Read is completely innocent as it was proven no injuries were caused by a vehicle. Love watching and learning from. Peter! Love LYK channel!!!

[@leonzlair1]

Just saw that the judge has ruled Sarah Boone has forfeited her right to counsel. We need a live.

[@lynngallagher7456]

Oh my God, we so need to follow that! That’s gonna be a S show

[@joshuaporter4078]

And she is shocked that the court did this to her. Wanted to know why he condenses the report that is 16 pages. She thinks it's a game I think

[@sydludwig1826]

Wow. I wonder how that works. I thought everyone has a right to a lawyer.

[@WickedWitchOfOz1]

I came here to say this! Great minds think alike. If Boone does represent herself, I think she's going to give Brookes a run for his money.

[@maritzabuller]

Where can I find that information?

[@MKUltra42]

If this goes to a mistrial and the CW decides to retry, the Feds should swoop down and indict Michael Proctor. That will make the next trial even more of a clown show.

[@lorilacewell7089]

That part

[@KathyCyr-dg7bv]

Oh please proctor just spoak his mind and he called it like he saw it

[@Go_Ask_M0m]

@@KathyCyr-dg7bvmaybe. But why the many “coincidences”? My husband has been an officer of the law, military, municipal, and federal…he has a lot of opinions of those folks with criminal records but has NEVER spoken this way about them even to me. Respectfully, do you believe the fed experts?

[@Go_Ask_M0m]

@@KathyCyr-dg7bv also, if he was so upset about a fallen officer, why did his supervisor not even know the decedent was a police officer until the afternoon? Of all the bs, that’s the hardest part for me to digest.

[@merk3574]

​@@KathyCyr-dg7bvyou are seriously delusional like to see how you would feel in KR's shoes . You must think this trial is a soap opera

[@DeeLish2000]

Whoa! 😨 This is the most confusing case I’ve ever watched. The jury directions were even more confusing. So much time and money wasted. Prosecution never should’ve brought this to court. How embarrassing.

[@kaymusictaylor7214]

Amen!

[@kaymusictaylor7214]

Prosecution didn't even present a case!

[@EyeColorAnalyzerUnika]

A hung jury? Clearly, jurors see the DA's point of view.

[@LisaMcCloud-ec2zk]

This shouldn't have gone because the one is already dealing with a FEDERAL CASE on how he handled this case. So how is she before the judge before HE is. This whole thing is rigged. Part of me thinks the jurors don't wanna just come out because that will show the crowds and chats may have influenced them. Then I think some may be scared foe their lives and then I think they just want more time cause they are going to try and buy off a juror.

[@Carryonandlaugh]

@@EyeColorAnalyzerUnikamaybe they see it the prosecutions way but that also means they are ignoring the facts of the case.

[@kimberlylaughner5067]

100% Alberts are “throwing their weight around!” As is the judge!

[@shaz8486]

Agree they should never have been allowed in the court. Especially the last day !!! Eyeing off the jury, INTIMIDATION IMO !!!

[@easttnlife]

IMO the Alberts and McCabes showing up for closing arguments and facing the jury was intimidation and apparently it worked

[@MuzerlinaV]

I’m so glad that I’m not the only one who feels this way. I think that they shouldn’t have been allowed to sit there. (Brian Albert has resting intimidation face.)

[@hollykeller1545]

@@MuzerlinaVPlus the jury heard that even the chief is afraid of BA - he’s that scary. Jackson referred to the Albert family as very powerful! (Children of powerful people often spend their lives sitting on a bench outside a pizza shop)

[@melindapye7435]

Not everything is a conspiracy.

[@easttnlife]

@@melindapye7435 I never said the word conspiracy. However, now that you bring that up, if there were ever a case with evidence of conspiracy, this is it.

[@Deondra72]

@@melindapye7435correct not everything is a conspiracy. Just like not every police force is free of corruption. Things happen. And the “guilters” that call everything a conspiracy, are unable to accept that sometimes things are corrupt. On all sides. Can be anywhere. You need to open your eyes. And stop labeling everything as a conspiracy theory. Two experts hired by the fbi said he was not struck by a car (or the injuries weren’t from a car). So then what ?

[@montanamaxim9566]

I leave in R.I. and been watch this case since January 29. And think it's crazy that they can't come to a verdict.

[@maryblais7791]

Someone needs to step in on judge Bev ! She is out of her league ! Feds need to come clean with their intervention.

[@spellingbee2000]

They should all be investigated by FBI

[@MimiDidi121]

She made the jury stop deliberations when they asked to go longer!!! It sort of sounds like they were close to making a decision! A weekend to think may stop the person from changing their mind!!

[@kimberlylaughner5067]

I 💯 agree!!! She is a disgrace along with prosecutors and policemen

[@melsafken764]

​@@MimiDidi121 I found it odd the "judges schedule". Seems she never pulls an 8 hour day...

[@enigma_-_79]

You’re qualified to judge Judges? What do you know that makes you a judge of Judges? Do you judge for the Supreme Court?

[@adamhandful7185]

I think it's because of Michael Proctor could possibly be indicted by the FBI once this case is over with a hung jury. So if it is a hung jury and Proctor loses his job how can they bring this back to court.

[@Pomelu]

You have way too much faith in the fbi lol, the corruption you see here is not rare at all

[@t.t6191]

Inducted for what?

[@kfg4046]

Karen Read deserves a not guilty. O Keefe deserves his girlfriend being exonerated and the real killers held accountable.

[@NewEngland721]

@@t.t6191have u watched?!

[@Nottooserious69688]

@@t.t6191He’s under federal investigation.

[@colleen019]

I pray this hold out person/ppl wakes up. This is ridiculous. She can’t go thru this again 😫

[@mirahardy636]

How about The O’Keefe family can’t go through this again ???

[@MaMaB334]

Exactly!! We also can’t suffer through Lally’s lallygagging all over again!! 😩

[@golfer462]

@@mirahardy636 don’t care about them. They want her guilty when shes 100% innocent.

[@colleen019]

@@mirahardy636they’re brainwashed by the McAlberts. Completely blinded by the truth. My heart is with John and I want justice for him but it’s hard to feel for his family when they’re running around with his killers and want an innocent woman jailed. That’s not justice whatsoever. In fact a complete injustice!

[@lindalavallee5144]

​@@mirahardy636so you'd rather they just convict Karen for hitting him when 2 expert witnesses and the ME stated that his injuries were not caused by being hit by a car? How is putting someone in jail who isn't responsible justice for Officer O'Keefe or his family??

[@donnaonstott]

Peter your wife is a saint to let you do these lives while on vacation! Tell her thanks! Love your content and insight.

[@beverlybwilliams]

Yea Wife!

[@BearSiren]

Haha I counted the money coming in last video and it was $650+ not including new memberships for 40 minutes. Paid for his golfing 😂

[@bettertomorrow2625]

One thing that will be different if this jury hangs is that the federal investigation will be known by any subsequent jury if they decide to retry her. That's going to hurt an already dumpster fire of a case. I honestly think she is not only "not guilty" in that the prosecution failed to prove their case but she is factually innocent. I feel awful for her. I can't imagine the extraordinary stress she must be under. A hung jury leaves her in limbo indefinitely. Of course I feel terrible for John O'Keefe and his family, but it's not justice to throw somebody in prison who didn't do it. It's just compounded injustice. In my opinion, Karen Read is also a victim of these same corrupt people John O'Keefe is a victim of. She may be alive, but they've destroyed her life and put her through hell and that hell isn't over yet. I'm appalled and disgusted.

[@user-qs3ty4iy8l]

Totally agree

[@vickiegibson2920]

Not to mention the money her family has had to pay for her defense.

[@klaj6595]

Agreed. It makes me cringe to think if the CW and police had pinned this on someone who didn’t have access to funds to defend themselves. All the cases that accept shitty deals secondary to trumped up charges and garbage police work. It’s actually frightening to think about

[@theConquerersMama]

💯

[@theConquerersMama]

So much money

[@sharynward6900]

There is just something about Brian Higgins and Albert getting rid of their phones. And Jen McCabe googling “hos long to die in the cold” at 2AM

[@s.z.6200]

They mishandled the case so blatantly. They planted evidence, the defense proved that.

[@007nadineL]

Pls outline in detail how the evidence was planted Thx.

[@Detroitsavant]

Didn’t prove anything if the jury can’t decide she’s innocent lol

[@thefatherrabbit]

@@Detroitsavant That is not how it works. Defense didn't have to prove her innocence because she is presumed innocent until the prosecution proves her guilt. They didn't.

[@samgoff5289]

@@thefatherrabbitthe comment said the defense proved that the police planted evidence you dunce, if you can’t read don’t comment

[@jfk32975]

Sorry the defense did not prove anything

[@Allegedly..Angela]

I am stressed out! Not sure how I got so invested- but man!!!

[@MimiDidi121]

I think it would be easier to convince a guilty to vote not guilty than for someone voting not guilty to switch to guilty. Agree?

[@fernandaolivares7926]

Let's hope so!

[@LilyBecca]

I do agree with this, but people can be unpredictable. Because they can't agree, it makes me think there is one person absolutely convinced she is guilty, probably because they just don't like her.

[@reneearnett8761]

And because these jurors are all from canton

[@Alison1973]

​@@reneearnett8761They're not all from Canton.

[@JulieBright-pq1mq]

A mcalbert in there.

[@marshagolzar2667]

Jury has to live in community where police and powerful will react to not guilty badly

[@danadunnivant6802]

That's sad and somebody FBI , DOJ , or anybody that can step in and STOP this corruption that's been going on in Canton for over 75 years. 😡

[@hopingforanswers7376]

Yup…they were in the courtroom the other day to be intimidating (in my opinion).

[@pj3341]

@@marshagolzar2667 Ridiculous. It’s a District Court. People from a wide area , not just Canton are called to serve.

[@carmenamador7086]

Or maybe the Alberts are paying a juror for a guilty verdict??

[@melsafken764]

​@@hopingforanswers7376 Thats what i thought too!!

[@hissykittycat]

This judge is a completely unsympathetic character. Really dislike her constant sighing and bored and irritated tone of voice. She needs to retire.

[@vitalucas9452]

She acts like a hungry toddler. 😢

[@bjones73387]

She could use a makeover as well. Just sayin'...🤷‍♀️

[@dudemorris7769]

@@bjones73387she doesn’t care about a make over like Judge Dorow did. She’s much older & been on the bench a lot longer. Time to retire her.

[@bigtex9836]

This judge is on the take. It’s obvious who she’s for. It’s in plain sight . DAILY!

[@chasethecat3839]

She's friends with the McAlberts. If Karen is found not guilty, her friends are going down. They all vacation together at the Hamptons. They call her auntie Bev. She doesn't want her friends being investigated so Karen must be found guilty in her eyes

[@toddm149]

Thanks for your coverage! Personally I think she is 100% not guilty based on testimony of lack of trauma below the neck and the fact I don't believe she went 24 mph in reverse and how John ended up more than 20 ft from the road. I would not change my mind on this if I were on jury.

[@D64nz]

Exactly 💯, the evidence is clear in this case. Easy NG.

[@theConquerersMama]

Me either. I would hold out as NG no matter what

[@nancykleinschmidt8173]

A couple of things bother me about the defense team. It is almost as if they forgot what a jury needs to consider when deliberating for a verdict. They were so hung up on this conspiracy theory that they neglected their main role in KR's defense. They needed to hammer the fact that a guilty verdict must be PROVEN beyond a reasonable doubt by the CW. AJ's closing argument should have centered on their expert witnesses that said the injuries were not the result of a vehicle strike. There should have been statements several times that KR is NOT GUILTY because of a lack of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt . I was very frustrated after AJ"s closing because I was waiting for more words that used her name = NOT GUILTY.

[@zynniaquaoar2439]

I agree, @nancykleinschmidt Especially when the instructions and jury form are so confusing. AJ could have gone over the options on the jury form to explain what it means

[@JT-pg8mk]

Totally agree about defense closing. Its strategy was to create enough confusion for reasonable doubt. This may have backfired with a jury who's so confused that there is a hung jury or guilty on a lesser charge

[@JT-pg8mk]

Not just the closing but the whole defense playbook

[@amelia_rose_333]

I, personally, thought AJ’s closing was one of the best I’ve ever heard. The CW didn’t prove their case AT ALL. There was SO MUCH reasonable doubt that it didn’t need to be said.

[@zynniaquaoar2439]

@@amelia_rose_333 I agree that Jackson’s closing was the best I had ever seen (as well as Yanetti’s opening) BUT those jury instructions and jury form were confusing as h311 and in other cases I’ve seen lawyers go over those forms to clarify so that jurors know what they are voting for.

[@bunch_o_racket]

I dunno how it is a hung jury. All the "evidence" that would convict, if proven, was so suspect and DISproven. It should be completely absolutely NOT GUILTY simply because the prosecution didn't prove a thing beyond a reasonable doubt. Not even close!

[@amelia_rose_333]

I agree 💯 Wth is going on!? It’s gotta be a McAlbert plant.

[@Carryonandlaugh]

@@amelia_rose_333I would love to know what the breakdown NG vs G is. If only 1-3 for G then I would be inclined to think the same.

[@user-gi7gl7rm3r]

I think the judges instructions caused jury confusion.

[@curiouslytot1950]

To be fair, they spent years being told she was guilty in that state. That can be hard to overcome for stubborn people

[@Carryonandlaugh]

@@user-gi7gl7rm3r I think that too but I still would like to see the breakdown of for and against guilty, if it’s a small amount of holdouts for guilty I’m inclined to think the “McAlbert” factor applies.

[@louise2257]

If any juror has been threatened or even FEELS threatened by anyone on either side, they should be able to tell someone (in authority) on the other side and it should be made known to ALL OF US!!!

[@enigma_-_79]

The world doesn’t work that way.

[@louise2257]

@@enigma_-_79 unfortunately

[@videos-li5ys]

Lally is full of it, The jury made it clear: they are done.

[@NewEngland721]

After the lawyers present for weeks, they are ‘done’ in less than 4?!

[@shaz8486]

@@NewEngland721 are you talking about the defense or jury deliberations??? If they were listening to this super confusing case that CW put forward not knowing anything beforehand…..which seems so strange to me as I’m in Australia and even I heard about it …before the trial. CW they put on so many crappy experts IMO, Defense only had a 3-4 days but they proved without a doubt in that short time there was no way KR hit him, let alone killed him, than CW with soooooo many witnesses that gave conflicting and very suspicious testimony, let alone the crappy LE investigation to prove her guilty. The defense proved it in no time after all the rambling of CW. That judge “Bev” was a nightmare constantly sighing, she clearly didn’t want to be there. I am dumbfounded how any sane logical person can call her guilty. Someone is feeling threatened or is siding with the cops/Alberts/McCabes holding out saying guilty. A lot of jurors make up their minds by the end of the trial before deliberations….well at least have a very good idea of where they stand on G/NG. I say that after hearing numerous jurors on different trial, some on even more complex cases and much longer cases than this. They came back with a verdict very quickly. I think the instructions probably confused them to start with, but from what we hear one person holding out, probably saying guilty …….mmmm I truly don’t comprehend how anyone can if they listened to this trial. …..

[@enigma_-_79]

The jury made it clear that they can’t decide if Read is guilty or not. Some think she’s guilty, others don’t. Just like in real life.

[@rebelred5526]

We cannot be fooled; cars don’t bite, they bruise!

[@trw207]

I hope those jurors realize they might need $1M for their own defense if these cops try to frame them for something.

[@childtimematters513]

Judge’s fault for so many days off and early releases for 9 weeks. Sailboats, water, sky, open air, conflicting their minds. Our minds. Wanted the afternoon to get out of town. Feel for the jury.

[@txbow88]

I don’t. they should learn that the state is adversarial to the people and need to also learn what reasonable doubt is. Too many people just trust the charge and don’t even take the evidence into consideration and those people should be ashamed of themselves and never be jurors but that’s who the state absolutely wants as jurors. Dumb people.

[@Truecrimecafe]

@@txbow88I really don’t understand how anyone can see and hear what we did and still vote guilty on ANY charge. I think she was so drunk they may have been able to convince her she hit him Until she hired Jackson and he got involved with the Feds

[@undercoveragent9889]

Yeah, right: nothing to do with the fact that you cowardly PoS's voted traitors into power, right? Pr1ck!

[@user-ty1kd7jh9b]

Exactly the judge has done this !

[@BrittanyHale]

I don’t understand why they aren’t sequestered. It seems to me that sending them home leaves tons of room for jury contamination. They aren’t monitored at all to prevent them from researching. It’s basically like you just have to take their word for it. Idk I don’t like it.

[@pennyhuls2607]

I wish the jurors knew the fbi is investigating trooper Proctor

[@libertyna933]

I would know that because they mentioned feds and they got a warrant for Proctor's cell phone.

[@katchristensen4211]

I wouldn't want to go through another 8 weeks of trial having to listen to Lally, either.

[@videos-li5ys]

I am from Massachusetts. If they do not let this jury be hung, then Canoni should pay for any additional cost out of her own salary, which she has earned with diligence, but not with competence. DA needs to be repealed or revoked or whatever. entire process was a complete fraud and a waste of taxpayer money…

[@kellykane8000]

Hi 👋 I think the changing of the charges slip, whilst the jury was already in deliberations f'd with their heads

[@marlenestegman5509]

God knows what lies Jen Mc Cabe will be throwing out? Theres no way she will be able to remember all the lies shes said.

[@deborahkociolek486]

You would if you were on trial

[@LastSupperClub]

I don’t wanna listen to any of them, including every single person in courtroom lol

[@lisolette1]

They never should have allowed a cop on the jury

[@Princelover-ip4gn]

Or let BEV choose him as foreperson PRIOR to the alternate jurors being dismissed by random draw

[@LUITESLIFE]

There's a cop on the jury??

[@shkrjam84]

Jackson should have spent some time in closing reminding the jury about reasonable doubt and making it clear that the CW cannot prove the most essential element of the case beyond reasonable doubt - that vehicle vs pedestrian was the cause of injury. And then reminded them of the experts on how it was scientifically and physically impossible for those injuries to have occurred from vehicle vs pedestrian, and the CW’s own ME stated that a biomechanical engineer would be the type of expert to determine that. Motive, intent, cover up, party statements, botched investigation, all the other bs around this case - none of these things matter. The CW was unable to prove the most essential element for any of the charges - that JO died as a result of collision with a vehicle - beyond reasonable doubt. Jackson should have spent some time on this, because the jurors don’t have to believe there’s a cover up or frame job to get to not guilty.

[@TammyMacMac]

I agree!

[@paulkopp3634]

Had I decided not guilty the judge send me back out it would absolutely solidify my vote . After the jury selection weeks of the trial itself a few more hours of deliberations is not going to change my mind, I’m done with it .

[@kparis77]

How can they not be all on aquittal on this? The botched investigation? The defense witnesses? Common sense. Even before I saw the accident reconstructionist I said there was no way that he could have been hit by a car and only have injuries on his head.

[@terashawd]

I hope the ones that are standing in morals keep their feet firmly planted in their decision.. despite all the pressure!

[@michwoodside]

And hopefully, their morals are based on the evidence.

[@deepstatethrombosis]

Sarah Boone is officially pro se!! Can't say I didn't see that coming! Narcissism is doing its work!

[@RichardZabielski-ql9ss]

Of course she did. Why do you think she was stalling lawyer after lawyer. She was just pissing time away until no more lawyers and she's on her own.

[@terryarmstrong8598]

Maybe her pro se attorney will be nice to her. Or not. 😂 Is it too early to take bets if she mentions her fan club in her opening statement?

[@LochlainnandFinn]

She will be even more infuriating than darrell

[@RichardZabielski-ql9ss]

@@terryarmstrong8598 lol. She's going to have her pro se fired next... should we keep count of how many times she brings up her fans? Similar to LALLY and his "what, if any" question 40,000 times.

[@Diana-ch8cv]

​@@RichardZabielski-ql9ss instead of what if anything it will be "it wasn't intentional " 😂

[@chadkosakowski3327]

Hmm finding this very interesting, questioning if these jurors heard the same evidence we did.

[@D64nz]

We have the benefit of having it broken down and explained in clear detail. Also, we get to replay and focus on specific points.

[@rebcol4926]

Absolutely no motive for murder has been proven. She is innocent.

[@murraylewter6456]

They they don’t have to prove motive

[@Ghost-304]

The Motive is drinking and driving causing death,

[@SamStone1964]

More importantly no evidence has been shown that John was hit by a motor vehicle.

[@Resmith18SR]

​@@SamStone1964 Who killed him? How did he die then?

[@MoonDragon1]

@@Ghost-304no because it can’t be accidental the way it’s written. She has to knowingly and intentionally hit him. They have zero proof of that. Actually opposite. They shouldn’t have charged the big charge and went for accidental. But we know the vehicle didn’t have damage of hitting someone and neither did John so I don’t know how how you get to guilty in any way

[@colemacedo-phillips5768]

Second time battling lymphoma cancer! Gotta say that I too have thoroughly enjoyed listening to your wonderful information you have provided with Karen Reid’s trial. It has helped me get through my painful radiation treatments. Blessings from Alberta, 🇨🇦

[@valentinat3250]

Best of luck to you!!

[@tcbellsz]

They are afraid to go back into the town of Canton with a not guilty verdict …

[@dudemorris7769]

The longest jury I sat on had more than 100 witnesses, many were on & off the bench in 4 or 5 questions, & lasted more than 3 weeks. I was the only hold out & it was 100% on the actual evidence the state didn’t have, not any hair, blood, dna, fingerprints, nothing to prove the young man was at the scene of the crime. I believed his mother & 2 elderly neighbors who all stated he was sitting at the house; on the porch while they played a card game, & he sat with them & ate dinner his mother made him. This was going on while crime was committed & due to the woman having this card game every single week, same time, for many years, I believed the mother & her bridge partners on their time line. Turned out, it wasn’t the younger brother, who was on trial for a life sentence, and he was innocent. Every one else had wanted to convict him, I was the only hold out & I’m so happy that I went with my own intuition & it saved that young man’s life. His brother was later convicted of the crime that he was on trial with originally.

[@declan92100]

The Jury note was clear as day they said they said "Despite our exhaustive review of the evidence and diligent review of all the disputed evidence we have been unable to reach a unanimous verdict" How can Bev decide 4 days isn't enough time to reach a verdict? She has no idea what's going on in the Jury room, sounds like there's at least 1 hold out and they're not budging

[@CrystalCat24]

The judge seems so bothered and annoyed with having to do her job. 😢

[@shaz8486]

Agree, her constant sighing is driving me crazy, she clearly doesn’t want to be there !!!!

[@nevernever5063]

Agree

[@ritayoung6040]

Bev wants to go to her place on Cape Cod

[@valentinat3250]

I am so over her!

[@maureenforan5962]

Who wants a HUG......All of us.

[@laraoneal7284]

It is so obvious KR is not guilty. How dumb is this jury?? Makes no sense.

[@silvioalgieri6218]

V v v v disappointed that the jury has not found Karen totally innocent, it’s as obvious as the nose on ur face that this is total corruption n poor Karen framed. The defence have done an amazing job defending Karen as she is totally innocent. Absolutely devastated that this case isn’t dismissed or completed. Sending love to Karen . Una n Silvio. 🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪💕💕💕💕🌸

[@donnaj257]

I wouldn’t want to be a juror. Regardless of Guilty or not guilty there will be many not happy. There is absolutely no win here. Pray for John’s family to accept whatever is going to happen

[@shaz8486]

If I was on the jury, to me it’s not rocket science ….the experts very clearly and unhesitatingly said not possible at all for JO to be hit by ANY car let alone KR …simple explanations by them IMO. If anyone was in doubt that evidence alone was not guilty.

[@maureenforan5962]

FEDs need to sort this.

[@DISC0Z]

Honest question - no trolls please. For all the folks who believe Karen Read is guilty - what do you make of the ARCA experts the defense brought forward compared to Trooper Paul?

[@bettertomorrow2625]

That's an excellent question. I would be very curious to hear an answer to that, too. Genuinely.

[@TequilaMockingBird91]

I found Trooper Paul very credible personally

[@DISC0Z]

@@TequilaMockingBird91 what’s facts/experience did you see that made you feel that way?

[@JenniferMassey-i5p]

If she is found guilty but the Feds find wrong doing. Would her conviction be overturned?

[@Physics072]

No way she gets convicted its more likely 10 vs 2 and the two wont budge.

[@rocsti5402]

​@@Physics072 Agreed. Been saying this for days.

[@RichardZabielski-ql9ss]

​@@Physics072agree.

[@kurtbradwill]

Not necessarily outright/automatically but it would have to go through the process to get overturned.

[@MoonDragon1]

This is what I was wondering. They are still investigating and already found he wasn’t hit by a vehicle. So unless the state comes up with another theory I don’t know how these charges and a Verdict could ever stand.

[@alfen0218]

I don’t know if you do teach law Peter but if not, you definitely should consider it.

[@Penguin62778]

I must have been watching a different trial, or maybe watching online and being able to discuss it help me understand a lot of the testimony better. I have not only reasonable doubt but also will go a step further and say Not Gulity due to I don’t thinking that Karen was involved with his death at all. I don’t know what happened or exactly why he was found in the condition he was.. but I dont believe it was due to Karen or her vehicle

[@theConquerersMama]

Same

[@007nadineL]

Yr ridiculous

[@robertbrashear2587]

This is the greatest channel on the internet. The knowledge shared is amazing. Had I known Peter when I was young I would have went to law school. This woman did not hit this man. There are dirty juror(s). Blessings.

[@Caketime2]

Peter you'll have to cover Sarah Boone now! The judge waived her right to council by conduct! And will not move the court date

[@Silvertranspirings]

Darrell Brooks 2.0

[@aussie.lawnerd]

You’re the first person I saw get this right! Everyone else I saw was saying she’s gone pro se which isn’t confirmed yet. Her right was forfeited due to her own conduct and seeing the case law sited by the judge she was given a LOT more opportunity through 9 attorneys (8 public defenders). She may still get private counsel but I don’t know how she would pay or anyone who would represent her pro bono! It definitely looks like she’ll be representing herself but I’ll wait until that’s been formally set. Yikessss that may be a circus.

[@paulbooth7479]

Maybe one or more jurors are being shrewd, avoiding a verdict so as not to face consequences within the community??

[@MissisChannel]

DID YOU CATCH THAT THE JURY INSTRUCTIONS WERE ACCUSING KAREN READ OF BEATING JOHN OKEEFE TO DEATH? AFTER HE REALIZES THE TAIL LIGHT KILLING HIM IS NOT GOING TO WORK HE ACCUSES HER AFTER NOT ONLY NOT PRESENTING ANY EVIDENCE SHE BEAT HIM, AND ARGUED WITH ANYONE SUGGESTING HE WAS BEATEN INSTEAD OF KILLED BY THE CAR, HE PRESENTS IN THE 2ND DEGREE MURDER CHARGE SHE BEAT HIM TO DEATH!!! LIKE WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT THAT? I JUST DID A VIDEO OF THE INSTRUCTION TO JURY SAYING THAT NO WONDER THEY ARE CONFUSED!

[@Therapistyouknow]

Those juror instructions are a lesson in how society was intended to function and how the jury is expected to critically think about facts and evidence. I really hope that's what they are doing!

[@jeanettehudon5322]

Thank you for the defense strategy behind what transpired today. I was so upset but now you helped make my day! Our country needs to have faith in at least one branch 😊

[@sharynward6900]

I would like to know how the Alberts and their bunch got to sit straight across from the jury…seems unlikely they just got those seats by chance

[@brightbleu]

I really can't believe this is happening!!!

[@TheHolliHolland]

I think it might be easier than we think to seat another jury. Today, I asked my hairstylist if she was watching the trial. She had no idea what I was talking about.

[@ArcherGinger]

Peter, so appreciate you interrupting your vaca to enlighten us on these court proceedings.

[@lobodons5512]

Only 1 ex cop holding out for guilty will make retrial difficult.

[@sandrah0330]

How do people know an ex-cop is on the jury?

[@NewEngland721]

Don’t think an ex cop would have made it on the jury in this case

[@NewEngland721]

@@sandrah0330they don’t

[@NewEngland721]

I know many Police officers/active and retired that do not feel she is guilty

[@pj3341]

@@lobodons5512 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@caroline-brisbane8577]

Big thank you for these lives during vacay and shout out to your amazing wife, supporting you! 🎉 🥂

[@stephaniecarter475]

cover up or not….. the investigation was sloppy

[@endavi1214]

Why would you pay a lawyer a million dollars and not expect him or her to win.I think the defense should have called more people to testify for Karen. They should have called people knew her relationship with John and the children. I do believe she loved him, and she is innocent. I saw his arm, and I have 4 dogs they do look like do bites. I watched the whole trial I don't know how anyone would ever think she is guilty.

[@Resmith18SR]

She's going to have pay again!!!😂😂😂

[@shaz8486]

@@Resmith18SR do you get joy in that….seriously???? Someday it might just happen to you, bet you wouldn’t laugh then

[@Resmith18SR]

@@shaz8486 Yes.

[@RationalNon-conformist]

I think Karen was very mean to John :/ but I don’t think she’s guilty.

[@Resmith18SR]

@@RationalNon-conformist You don't think backing into him and leaving him to die of hypothermia wasn't mean?

[@kitcat901]

Auntie Bev always always always follow the CW’s lead. Every damn time.

[@lisamorgan9582]

I think the individual jurors have made up their mind. Not budging!!

[@KarenAZona]

I’m moved by the people saying the stream is helping them thru chemo. I am a 16 yr survivor and I can totally see how following the cases and being part of this community could really help. You’ve created a good thing Peter. ❤

[@jessicathomas73]

I knew this would happen after their first question. I had a bad feeling from the start that the jury would have a holdout. This will end up being tried again because the state won't let this go if they cannot decide. It needs to move to a county where there is no personal bias. I think the McAlberts in the court room intimidated the jury and I think the jury is possibly tainted. It needs to move to an objective county and this biased judge should not be allowed to preside over the next trial. This is a disaster. I really don't think they will come to a resolution.

[@brirashrn5445]

Yo this court system needs to be reformed!! Next time we have jurys they all need to be remained anonymous no witness no people in the court should know or see their identity. How are you gonna let this poor woman whose been dragged in the mud for two years not find her not guilty. The prosecutor failed to present substantial evidence to prove she did it. There for it's grounds for not guilty

[@paulettewie2355]

I wish this trial was charged outside of the area for a fair trial 😢

[@debbiedolan5842]

I believe there are more jurors for guilty than not guilty. I think the hold outs are on her side.

[@TheSzeszter]

Man this trial is stressing me out, I even had a nightmare about being on the jury and being pressured to vote one way... :)

[@sydludwig1826]

That’s funny. Nightmares. Yikes.

[@Princelover-ip4gn]

Go watch Aussie Insiders “Hot Mics and stuff” ! It’s the funniest thing I’ve seen in years! She has tons of informative and entertaining videos, but Hot Mics and Stuff is GOLD 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@otggoddess2415]

Since when can a judge determine the outcome of a jury trial and what the jury comes to.

[@donnaonstott]

My vote would be not guilty on all charges!

[@pj3341]

@@donnaonstott mine would be not guilty of second degree murder but guilty of vehicular manslaughter and driving under the influence.

[@NewEngland721]

@@pj3341how do you explain no injuries/bruising below the head ( other than arm

[@shaz8486]

@@pj3341didn’t you listen to what the EXPERTS said how it was IMPOSSIBLE for JO to die from KR Lexus …the defense proved in 3 days without all the crap from CW that KR was innocent. Who or how who knows, except those that were involved because clearly they were, Chloe the dog suddenly gone, the basement floor suddenly replaced, the house NOT ever searched, then the home sold BELOW value …mmmmm I thought that home had been a generational home, I may be wrong. One family or town cops SHOULD NEVER hold that kind of threat over ANYONE !!!!

[@Alison1973]

​@@pj3341there's absolutely no evidence that JOK got hit by any car. Period. You have to vote from the evidence. You'd make a horrible juror lol!!

[@alexib2070]

same and I actually think that there is a good chance dhe caused the death but with that amount of f ups and readonable doubt how could snybody say they are 100# certsin she did it? That is completely impossible

[@josiemiller6524]

Once the Feds came in and conducted their own investigation and got the results of the reconstruction tests and such, I don’t understand how they were even allowed to move forward with taking this case to trial. The federal investigation lead to findings showing it is impossible that John was struck by Karen’s car - case over!!! I don’t understand how ANYONE can hear the evidence that was presented and conclude that she’s guilty. UNLESS - someone on the jury is ‘friendly’ with the McAlberts and is refusing to acquit her. I said that once jury selection began. How can the attorneys really truly KNOW for certain that the potential jurors are being 100% honest when answering questions about whether or not they know the any of the McCabe’s or Albert’s or any of the pertinent witnesses???? How can they ever really KNOW!?!? Just like Proctor when he was asked, under oath, at the state grand jury - being a sworn officer - whether or he KNEW or had a RELATIONSHIP with anyone of the McCabe’s or any of the Albert’s. He got up there and lied to everyone in that courtroom!! Who’s to say one of these jurors didn’t do the exact same thing???

[@Bettieg1]

Such a huge issue for public policy if she’s found not guilty. There might be a reevaluation of past cases that have been handled by the same officers leading to appeals and reviews

[@shaz8486]

So be it….KR should NOT be a scapegoat for the cops corruption!!!

[@Princelover-ip4gn]

That sounds like a GOOD thing! Injustice MUST be corrected NOT continued as a matter of “policy”!🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

[@pmp4115]

re: jurors and parties living in a "small town"... Canton is only one of 27 cities and towns in Norfolk County, the jurisdiction from which the jury is drawn. So there is good likelihood that most of the jurors do not live in Canton or have any interaction with any of the parties in this case.

[@kevingriffin1376]

You do know Massachusetts State Police are involved too? Proctor, Bukhenic, Tully, Joseph Paul are all troopers.

[@D64nz]

This sounds like a simple case of one side saying NG because its clear the car didnt cause the injuries, and the other side voting guilty because KR bad. Both sides refuse to budge over that one simple point, and know no one is going to change their mind from here.

[@Tracey101]

Best, levelheaded commentary by far!

[@alliehurx8391]

Agree. I came across him today while toggling between Law n crime and court tv now I'm a forever fan

[@danart11811]

@@alliehurx8391I found Peter during the Murdaugh escapades. He offers so much intelligent insight.

[@Judge_Mental]

PETER. Your channel is a fountain of knowledge. I am so glad to be a member here. People would pay good money to learn all the ins and outs on law and order like the facts that you share with all of us. I have learned so much about the US law system thanks to you. I cannot thank yoy enough. Your explanations are easy to digest and you give us a clear explanation of various terminologies used throughout these trials. Thank you sir. You have a member for life. The mods and bods here are also a lovely bunch and it's always a pleasure to read the comments and be part of this group ❤

[@user-ty1kd7jh9b]

The jury has to find her guilty without a doubt how the hell are their jurors on this case that 💯 percent think she did this with every thing they were presented? I think this judge is crooked!

[@ir0nn237]

There are corrupt forces at play that are desperate to see Karen guilty.

[@MotogiantTL]

Corruption in Every Single Corner in this city!

[@brianwebber6996_ROADHUNTER]

You spelled country wrong!!

[@nicolwhip]

I would be annoyed if i was a jury member that they forced me to continue.

[@EC-tt3nj]

He wasn't hit by a car. Not guilty.

[@heftyhefty_]

I think a hung jury shouldn’t exist. If everyone in the room disagrees with you, that should indicate to you there’s at least reasonable doubt 😂

[@melissaschellenger1601]

i just said this same exact thing to my coworker today

[@user-re1vn3ce4h]

What if you are the only one that believes there is reasonable doubt? Should the 11 other jurors opinion of guilty sway the opinion of not guilty?

[@melissaschellenger1601]

@@user-re1vn3ce4h I think if you and i were given the same facts and we come up with different opinions, then those facts weren't strong enough either way to convince us both of their meaning, therefore there is doubt in that evidence somewhere. I hope i was able to explain what I mean properly.

[@D64nz]

​@@melissaschellenger1601 to me that is the definition of reasonable doubt. 😊

[@user-re1vn3ce4h]

@@melissaschellenger1601 I think I know what you mean. If even one juror can't be convinced beyond reasonable doubt then it should be not guilty. I disagree and think that the system in place of hung jury=mistrial is more just. Depending on vote split when hung, the prosecution can decide to retry or not within a certain timeframe. Many times plea deals are made for lesser crimes. Think of the times that trumped up charges are brought on someone because a policeman took something personal. Or perhaps was being racist. It didn't mean that person, if guilty, shouldn't be punished at all. It means that this "trumped up" charge couldn't be agreed on beyond a reasonable doubt and then you can still try again, try for a lesser crime, make a deal, or give up entirely. Sorry that probably makes no sense.