LBC callers react to £1,600 Universal Basic Income trial

00:00 Nick Ferrari speaks to a researcher about the trial
02:57 James O'Brien gives his thoughts on UBI
03:56 Nick Ferrari texter brands the idea 'nonsense'
04:27 Neil in Alton tells James O'Brien it could provide a 'financial safety blanket'
05:19 Harry in Basildon says it could lead to reduced staff levels
06:29 Daniel in Finchley believes UBI is not about giving people five-bedroom houses
Researcher Jack Kellam, who worked on the Universal Basic Income report explains to Nick Ferrari what this could mean for poverty, while LBC callers share their views on people being 'paid to do nothing'.
Listen to the full show on Global Player: l-bc.co/ListenNow
#nickferrari #jamesobrien #universalbasicincome #LBC
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[@chickenliver]

The only people who are against ending poverty are people whose self esteem relies on other people being beneath them

[@BasedSaxon]

Ending poverty? You trust known liars to end poverty? They could just change the definition of poverty? Or cull the population that would reduce poverty! But you naturally assume it will all be fine and dandy. 😂🤡

[@didyeaye2481]

I think that is it in a nutshell.

[@acidthunder1]

Define "poverty". What about slavery? Exactly what will they want from everyone if you dont work and get handouts. 100% compliance to whatever they say. Sounds great doesnt it?

[@daughterofenoch677]

@G M Bullseye 🎯🎯🎯

[@chickenliver]

@@acidthunder1 who is "they"?

[@samcrowe734]

How about taxing big corporations that spend millions avoiding tax every year to fund it?

[@stephenconway2468]

Tricky. As soon as someone define the rules, then companies employ smarter tax consultants to find ways around the rules. What appears clear to you and me is often tricky to write down perfectly.

[@theghostoftom]

​@@stephenconway2468 Ideally when tax law is written you start by taking the corporate lobbiests and those who have taken their money out of the room. Then you write simple and clear laws. That won't happen, but it's how to make it work.

[@abegarfield7031]

Tax the churches. The money generated from that could eradicate poverty the world over.

[@stephenconway2468]

​@@theghostoftom Sadly I don't see this happening.

[@andrewholdaway813]

Well obviously this would come from taxation.

[@nativeenglishpaul2836]

Ferrari asked him 3 times if people could work. Was told yes. Then summarised it by saying people were being paid to stay at home and not work. What a liar.

[@yt.personal.identification]

The facts didn't quite fit his narrative, but he didn't let that stop him.

[@matthewburns7989]

I dont believe for a moment that the majority of people would just become couch potatoes. Take COVID furlough as an example of what really happens. People actually do stuff still, they spend the money on DIY projects for example or other stuff that improves their surroundings and all sorts of productive stuff. You'll find that actually improving our housing conditions is big factor in our own mental health. And currently people on low pay, in ongoing long term debt, or not able to work for some reason of health, only can live to pay bills and buy some food, and use food banks of course. Even working people are using food banks which is utterly disgusting for a first world country as we claim to be.

[@sharonlightfoot6334]

Yes Ferrari had no idea. The very fact it would eliminate poverty is wonderful and yes people can work pay more tax into the economy. Is Ferrari thick?

[@sueharrison9115]

@@sharonlightfoot6334 In a word Yes ! he is a bit thick.

[@JRHainsworth]

Not only that, but he scolded him about letting people work while on this. Explicitely annoyed people aren't being forced not to work by this scheme, since that's what he wanted to happen.

[@SamoIsKing]

You've also got to remember that nearly all of this money will go back into the economy in one way or another, and each time the government takes a slice in the form of taxes.

[@lenb9037]

By that logic nobody needs to work at all.

[@footyball66]

this is what I was thinking.... if everyone spent the £1,600 and then it went through another 4 people who all spent it within that month..... the government has the £1,600 back. Thing is, it's unlikely this would happen, but I'd be interested in what % of that money they'd get back in the form of taxes over the space of a year. My guess is 25% - 30%. Meanwhile, they would no longer have to pay out benefits. No longer have to run job centres. Maybe crime would go down. This all said, personally I think £800 maximum should be given, as then most people would still have to work. I also think it should only be given to people aged 20 to 50. I reckon a massive chunk of over 50's would retire early if given £1,600 a month.

[@extremeknucklehead3637]

@@footyball66 "Maybe crime would go down." Not the REAL crime. The one that is making the vast majority of the population poorer by the day If you gave £1,600 to a person who has £16 in the bank, MOST if not ALL of the £1,600 will be spent in the month If you gave £1,600 to a person who has £61,000 in the bank, NONE of the £1,600 will be spent

[@NeilCampbell1]

Tax revenue going back to the people? What will corporations say? Scandalous .

[@cameronblack7984]

Well it's not going back fairly with the current progressive tax system... The vast majority of taxes are paid by the highest earners. That being said, having access to a platform that you can use to plan your productive future is a very interesting idea. The amount of productivity that is lost because people are in jobs they don't like and therefore do the bare minimum must be huge.

[@peters9401]

@@cameronblack7984 in all fairness it’s established fact that wealthy people pay a much lower percentage of their income to taxes than working people. In my corner of the planet it’s estimated wealthy people enjoy an effective tax rate of around 3.5%. I’m not sure about you but I know my payroll tax is around 40%.

[@TG-ts3xn]

😂 tax revenue from other people though

[@cameronblack7984]

​@@peters9401 mine is around 33%, much higher than someone on less money than me. People on high salaries are the ones who foot the tax burden.

[@chrisj9700]

@@peters9401 the top 1% pay a third of all income taxes. They will leave the country if they have to pay more tax to fund UBI.

[@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg]

Nick's side of this discussion is one of the most smooth-brained things I've ever heard. We could end poverty by implementing a basic income, well, yes, because you're giving people money. Yes Nick. That's how it works. Whether they inherit it, work for it, or win the lottery, the way people get out of poverty - and I can't stress this enough - is by getting money.

[@Jen-tn1un]

Nick is one of those wealthy people who choose to believe that anyone who is not wealthy is fundamentally flawed and undersereving of a decent life. He doesn't care about lifting people out of poverty because he believes that those who live in poverty deserve nothing more.

[@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg]

@@Jen-tn1un I'm just bamboozled by the fact that he's apparently just learned that the way people get out of poverty is through the addition of funds.

[@nicolarobinson3140]

Outside of London and the South of England 1600 take home money is more than many have each month!! In other parts of the UK this scheme would mean those on ui are getting more then their counterparts working 40 hour weeks and paying tax, insurance and pensions!! It would make ui a much more attractive option, sew resentment and make ordinary working people look like mugs!! It’s incredible how so many people don’t appreciate how little many working people actually earn..🤷🏻‍♀️

[@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg]

@@nicolarobinson3140 I don't think that's the point. If you're going to agree that working people don't earn enough, you must have some idea of what a living wage WOULD be. These UBI programs tend to be based on that figure, because they want to see what happens when people receive a living income as a default. And what they've generally found in the various places these programs have been tested - is that it makes a fairly minimal difference to the amount of people that are 'employed', but makes a significant difference to the amount of people in poverty. Which is surely the goal, isn't it? That NO ONE should be trapped in inescapable poverty?

[@varshapatel4537]

@@nicolarobinson3140 Thank you, just one common sensical person. Everyone wants to end poverty but facts are facts, any sane person would know to fund this would be impossible yet they’ll keep on going on about how “you want people to be poorer” just because they don’t have any real grasp of how it would practically work. This actually would deter so many people who don’t make £1600 per month bearing in mind these people actually contribute to taxes and unfortunately reality matters.

[@DylRicho]

People reacting like they wouldn't get it. It's universal. If this is implemented properly, everyone benefits from it. Even those who are working. James understands.

[@targetthetank]

I think it's more of the fact they don't want others to get it. The caller about being an "unscrupulous employer" doesn't care about getting it, he doesn't want others to get it, because that would undermine his leverage. All the while, mind you, saying that he wants to change the system, with this literally being a change to the system. Note: I am an American and these are the same arguments over here as well.

[@god1971b]

@@targetthetank USA and UK have similiar business practices, John Major quote, if it isnt hurting it isnt working.

[@yiguanas812]

It would be hopelessly naive to expect Universal Basic Income to be anything other than "Universal" Basic Income. UBI would be implemented by people who are unshakably committed to an identity politics / equity agenda i.e. the amount paid will depend upon arbitrary criteria like a social / carbon credit score or whether you belong to the minority of the month. Dealing with such people is like dealing with the Devil.

[@markws5952]

Sign me up brother, or sister.

[@daviniarobbins9298]

I think you would have to set levels at which UBI reduces so say if you earn £30,000 a year you only get £500 UBI a month, £40,000 you only get £250 and so on. Otherwise if it was set at £1500 every 4 weeks for 45 million people in this country it would cost about £67 billion a month to fund. There has to be thresholds in place. To fund a scheme that costs £67 billion a month you would have to increase VAT, income tax and NI tax rates would have to increase. A wealth tax would have to come in(and we all know how rich people lover to hand over their money don't we, lol).

[@KebabMusicLtd]

There are people sat in the House of Lords who do even less than nothing but who earn much more than £20,000 pa.

[@donmcvey]

Ferrari laughing at the idea of ending poverty. He simply cannot imagine a world without plebs and poor people.

[@chatham43]

...more guilt-ridden virtue signalling from the middle-class left.

[@luyolomify]

I hear you. Does anyone know how I can apply to be on this scheme?

[@mogznwaz]

Because it doesn’t exist - it never has and never will and any time it has even been attempted the consequences have been catastrophic

[@pritapp788]

It's been the way of the UK since the Victorian period - at the very least.

[@jimmyrich4675]

​@@mogznwazuntrue you every word

[@Blackstar-wj7ld]

Struggling to understand Nick Ferrari's seeming aversion to ending poverty, as if poverty is somehow great for the economy.

[@richard-gn3es]

It is great for the economy

[@m_b4]

@@richard-gn3es Its great for inflation and currency debasement. Everyone becomes poorer and you'll own less.

[@richard-gn3es]

@@m_b4 if it was profitable for the owners of business.. and governments to end poverty.. it would have been done years ago. The economy needs people in poverty to offer very cheap labour. And to get into debt. Because our whole economy runs on debt

[@jordanoneill7052]

becuase he might pay 5% extra tax :(

[@karldubhe8619]

@@richard-gn3es So, you're a person who wants to exploit the misery and desperation of others. To quote Mrs. Brown "That's nice."

[@danielhornby5581]

“As an employer…” The guy admits he exploits his workers. Classic!

[@winninglifeyo]

“They starve”

[@David-le7jy]

Perfectly sums up why I switch to LBC at 10am, and not a second before

[@chatham43]

.....and you work from home which helps...😊

[@chatham43]

.....and you work from home which helps...😊

[@David-le7jy]

@@chatham43 it really does!

[@DRDR3ADSA]

If Nick Ferrari thinks £20k a year alone somehow ends poverty, he should try living on it

[@craigfowler7098]

He probably gets that every week

[@BadlydrawnBen]

I live very happily on slightly less than that

[@richard-gn3es]

Assuming it wouldn't be wildly inflationary. Then it would certainly end the worst poverty. Compared to many living on uc 20k is a large ammount

[@chrisj9700]

I lived on less than that and got by just fine. The best way to end poverty is for people to finish school, hold down a full time job and avoid having children until you’re married. All these things decrease the chances of being poor significantly.

[@SamoIsKing]

@@chrisj9700 Thats just hindsight and doesnt help people already in poverty. A UBI could help those people afford child care so they can go back to education and then get a better job.

[@BambooCoffin]

Nick is of a generation where he was paid to go to Uni through a grant (and most likely had money left at the end - as my dad did!), has only ever seen positive equity in his property, probably has an insane pension deal, and is probably earning more now than at any time in his life. Also, it's not Paid Not To Work, it's a guaranteed income in and out of work. Very different.

[@chrisj9700]

Hardly anyone went to uni in his days. There’s no incentive to work if you’re going to be given free money by the government. It’s unaffordable and inflationary.

[@jeffsuter344]

He likes to oppress poor people like his Tory mates.

[@chatham43]

...so however wealthy you are you get it...?

[@randomdaveUK]

​@@chatham43 yes

[@apemoon1731]

It's still paid not to work. I could get by quite nicely on £1600 a month. Bring it on 😁👍🏻👌🏻 He's also of the generation when only around 5% of a much smaller number of school leavers went to university. That's why we could afford to offer it for 'free'.

[@---Tre---]

As a retailer I would love for my customers to have a bit more money in their pockets. That means they can spend more!

[@grahamleiper1538]

The "give rich people money they bank it, give poor people money they spend it" argument is a fairly strong one for improving the economy by making poor people better off.

[@berserkirclaws107]

🤔 This is worth looking into it. Edit: I just watched a Ted talk "Why we should give everyone a basic income" (which I recommend) and few other videos about this subject and I now really think it could be a great idea. Personally if I had this money I would use it to study because right now I can't afford it.

[@lawrencebolt3540]

Yeah, watched that video a couple years back. He shows how the health costs alone mean the UBI is a net positive, if I remember correctly.

[@wilboplays2268]

Flat Screen Tellies. I remember a documentary where Ann Widdecombe met people on benefits. She walks into a lady’s house and says “how did you afford that flat screen telly?”. The lady replied “I wasn’t always on benefits”.

[@ospreyphil8995]

“You can take a job during this?” “£20,000 to stay at home and do nothing” I think Nick needs it explaining again

[@Alex-cw3rz]

And studies have shown that it increases the amount of people in work as it gives them a steady income to find a job or start a business.

[@benjaminevans2839]

You can explain it to him as many times as you like. He simply will not listen to it.

[@catana.2927]

Mate, he understands how it works. The people that are against it are just jealous, they just hate that everyone will have a fair chance in a system like that. The employer will have to give fair pay, or else they lose the bussiness.

[@tobiasmccallum9697]

​@@Alex-cw3rz wow cool, how do we afford 1.4 trillion a year?

[@tobiasmccallum9697]

I get the idea. But 70mil×20k= what? Oh yeah, 1.4trillion, more than our entire budget. Do the maths

[@lizcollinson2692]

The horrible thinking demonstrated here is the I'm a hard worker but other people are lazy, if they are poor it's because they deserve it. I have a thousand questions about this but some people seem to be ready to assume no one will work.

[@---Tre---]

The average rent is 1200, which means you are left with at best 400. Is that really enough to live off of super comfortably? 400 for food, transportation, clothing, and saving up for a holiday. NO IT ISN'T! The UBI is there to cover essentials. Most people will work so they can get ahead.

[@riversguy92]

As other people have mentioned this needs to go hand in hand with laws that say pos landlords can’t suddenly raise their rents by the amount of the UBI and effectively nullify it- praying somebody thinks to implement that

[@aceyage]

Rent of course has to be regulated to be much lower. We need to make housing a human right and as cheap as safely possible.

[@kaytsippy1981]

People's aversion to ending poverty is sobering. Jheeze.

[@richardmcdonald8724]

How does printing "money" end poverty. As it will be paid by deficit spending from the treasury. What makes people poor is inflating their money away, we currently have 20% food inflation and that's the official number which always under reports the figure. To do this for the whole country would be highly inflationary. Even if you did it by tax it would still cause inflation as more money would be chasing the same amount of goods.

[@Sirlarrythecat]

@@richardmcdonald8724 Errrm thay's why it would rolled out in stages and if big business and corporations paid thier fair share of tax that would easily fund this.

[@richardmcdonald8724]

@@Sirlarrythecat I don't think you understand basic monetary economics do you.

[@himagainstill]

​@@richardmcdonald8724 Poverty is, plainly and simply, a lack of money. Realistically, you fix a lack of money with more money. We printed an absolute boatload to get through the financial crisis of last decade, and another boatload to get through COVID. In neither case did we see intolerable inflation. What we're experiencing at the moment is attributable mostly to two things: supply chain issues caused by industry shutdowns over the pandemic, and knock-on effects from Russia's antics. The latter in particular has pushed up the cost of grain and energy. These markets are global. And of course the BoE is using the only lever it has and is increasing interest rates, which would normally work with discretionary goods by encouraging people to spend less on them, which obviously doesn't work when the price inflation is hitting essentials that you can't realistically cut back on. What are you going to do, not eat?

[@krusher74]

its tribal, the more you have a rightwing brain the more you live in fear and what they fear is that if someone else has a bite of the mamouth the tribe caught they wont get any.

[@JoeWedgwood-ik9zo]

Your not being paid not to work, your being given a guaranteed living…

[@ospreyphil8995]

The amount of people who don’t seem to realise (not you) that the workers will get it too is surprising

[@nathanu6759]

Like the guy who doesn’t know which “your” or “you’re” to use. Imagine being allowed to survive for no additional conditions. Currently you are alive on conditional circumstances, if you do not work then you die. Tell me, what does that sound like?

[@richard-gn3es]

It's inevitable. If not Amazon will be using robots to sort and deliver all the parcels.. and all the unskilled workforce will die from starvation. Oh just learn coding some will say. Well ai is coming for that job too. It's just a fact this will be needed

[@JoeWedgwood-ik9zo]

@@nathanu6759 I know the correct spelling, I just don’t care 😁👍🏻

[@paulmcavoy7878]

James is bound too like this nonsense

[@tamaramulenga4834]

There's a great documentary about the trial of this in Kenya in one village over 8 years. Fascinating and people did actually try to make their lives better by using the money to start businesses, go to school and generally plan for their lives

[@redx11x]

What happened to the village after 8 years

[@tamaramulenga4834]

@@redx11x the program is still running, ends in 2030

[@EvilEndz]

This would, simply put, save my life. I could get all the treatments I need which would be years in the waiting for on the NHS, I could develop my career and honestly after the 2 years were up I would be earning more than the UBI rate and be healthier (barring serious unexpected illness) and happier. As it currently stands I'm circling the drain with worsening health and looking at homelessness in the coming year and that would be if my mental health didn't finish me off first.

[@nilsalmquist802]

So sorry to hear about that Dave. There's too much suffering in this country and it's caused mainly by the greed and selfishness of others.

[@jakesmith-bs4jd]

Stay strong Dave. Wishing you the best mate

[@jackturner6266]

It is interesting to see what life would be like if we assumed all people at minimum should be able to have a roof over the head and have food on the table. We currently have a situation where people who work full time can scarcely afford even that

[@richardfowler9901]

Totally out of order someone working on minimum wage can't afford to rent a bedsit

[@chatham43]

...that's the cost of lockdown Jacko...

[@unprofessionallyamateur6354]

@@chatham43 because poverty totally didn’t exist before that 🤡

[@davidmcculloch8490]

Absolutely! Nail on the head... Divide and rule would give way to basic humanity. Couldn't agree more.

[@ENGLISHISBEST]

The wife & I are 65 & 64 both worked & rent, we have had about 5 holidays abroad in all that time mainly thanks to redundancy payment over the years we are unskilled with no private pension due to low wages. I lately have had many operations & suffered long term covid conditions reducing our income. The government allow for basics when they should raise the minimum wage. Its not fine for those well paid skilled or politicians telling the low paid how to live.

[@THEdaveyorke]

I left my job to help my father take care of my mum who has dementia (I'm 31 years old). This universal income would be a huge, huge help. As we're getting to grips with working with my mother's dementia, I am actually able to take more time for myself. I'm actually feeling positive that I could eventually start working from home in the near future as my father and I are getting better at, and more used to, caring for my mum. Caring for someone with dementia isn't cheap.

[@daughterofenoch677]

Your mum has 2 registered carers ?

[@jeffsuter344]

On average it costs £500 per month extra to be disabled.

[@keithpanton7486]

It's frankly insane that Carer's allowance is EVEN LESS than the pittance of UC. Still around £60 a week, instead of just handing them over to a care home, and letting the private companies charge the government at least £40,000 a year.

[@mogznwaz]

Would it be as much of a help if it removed all other benefits you receive?

[@THEdaveyorke]

@@daughterofenoch677 my dad is a registered carer, I am not.

[@SMentor568]

Old Nick struggling to grasp the concept! 😂😂

[@JoeRoganFunniestClips]

In the US UBI scheme they found that they could put a tax on stock exchanges which would generate the sufficient finance to make the concept plausible in some States.

[@peterh1353]

Certain thing are overtaxed and some things are undertaxed. Financial dealing is ludicrously undertaxed.

[@moun7522]

It’s not paying people not to work. It’s giving all humans access to a dignified basic lifestyle. When people are properly fed and housed they can then explore their potentials to expand their lifestyle with a job. Employment should give you income to enjoy life and not be a source for survival money.

[@monkeyman4556]

Oh it's not for us English. It's for our unwanted overseas people who'll dominate the streets to useless to work they'll need it.

[@thatslottonuts]

Yep. 100%.

[@acidthunder1]

That sounds utopian, like communism. In theory all is great, in practice awful

[@scrixdaasd4953]

It not anyting new. Even romans gave out free bread. Build puplic bad. Gat city clean water. And provide. entertainment. This guy tory. Aka he want give rich people money to be lazy spend all on 100 000 pund champagne bottles. Will no clean water. And would cast filty out streets.

[@alanharper23]

​@@acidthunder1 Isn't that the purpose of these trials, to determine how it could work in practice? I'm all for these sorts of trials. I think the potential of giving everyone basic financial security is incredible. When it comes to pursuing and choosing work, it would change people's priority from "what's the most financially secure" to "what's the most fulfilling" and I think that would do wonders for people's general wellbeing and happiness. People are most productive when doing what they love, and this would allow many people to choose jobs they love, not just those they need.

[@TrentRidley]

"How are you going to pay for it?" A question only ever asked when we're discussing doing things that are socially/economically progressive and ethically right. It's never asked if you want to start and/or fund yet another foreign war, or bail out financial institutions after their reckless and often-times illegal practices have again crashed the economy, or when offering multinational fossil fuel companies massive subsidies as they simultaneously plunder the nation's natural resources, avoid tax and destroy the planet, or when dismantling the public sector and then spending twice or thrice or who knows how many times more on outside "consultants"..... who are usually made up of politicians, their family members, and/or friends, or if you want to lower tax rates, particularly for the biggest companies and wealthiest individuals, etc, etc, etc. Yeah geez, when you start listing out these totally unnecessary and avoidable costs that take the taxes of the lower and middle class and redistribute them to the wealthy, I've just got no idea at all where we might find the money to pay to end poverty and homelessness.

[@nilsalmquist802]

Well said.

[@torsteinholen14]

It`s a conundrum for the ages....

[@dannyboy91]

Also it's always mentioned that we the people should subsidise it with higher taxes. Why is it never mentioned that they could increase corporation tax to pay for it?

[@killorfill6953]

Ferrari - Don't you DARE keep 1 penny of your state pension. Following your logic, all state pensions should be withdrawn as pensioners are PAID NOT TO WORK. Remember, if you can't refuse it, you could always give it all to charity.

[@Carlos12330]

I’m on a universal basic income,state pension,I’m still working and for the first time in my working life I don’t have to worry about my bills, I think its a fantastic way to break the poverty cycle.

[@jtmuso]

It’s the freedom to make decisions without financial constraint that’s a game changer with this

[@chatham43]

...I doubt it somehow...is that why it's so popular worldwide...?

[@mogznwaz]

If I got given an extra £1600 a month I’d just pay off my mortgage faster, entrenching my ‘privilege’ by putting that asset entirely in my hands.

[@gazfisher7391]

I agree.

[@ScottZ370]

If everyone suddenly has £1600 more a month in buying power, watch prices of everything go up to match.

[@TheShift1313]

But that isnt an issue with the ubi, thats an issue with companies raising prices of goods, which they have no issues doing now. "Because companies might charge more" doesnt seem like a strong argument not to try this?

[@yt_Ajay_]

Does Nick Ferrari not want poverty to be eradicated.?

[@markzee4243]

Nick is a Tory spokesman

[@adamibrahim7338]

@@markzee4243Examples??

[@mijr9075]

@@adamibrahim7338 any clip on nick

[@chatham43]

...poverty ain't what it used to be....😊

[@saltney17]

@@chatham43 weird guy

[@ClannCholmain]

😂 Remember all the times Nick cried over corporations getting handouts? Me neither.

[@chatham43]

...co-operating with whom...?

[@ClannCholmain]

@@chatham43 a typo. Corporations.

[@mmathrills7190]

the unscrupulous employer was hilarious

[@Jericho642]

Nick just discovered the cure for poverty (i.e. increasing taxes) and he thinks its a bad idea.

[@KebabMusicLtd]

It doesn't even have to be money. It could just as well be some token scheme that allows the bearer to exchange tokens for goods and/or services. This would also generate productivity because people would buy more. Shops would therefore need to employ more staff. Manufacturers would likewise have to increase production and employ more staff. Of course it will never happen. The Tories need someone to blame for their incompetence.

[@NaaahBruv]

@@KebabMusicLtd A token you can exchange for goods and/or services? What a revolutionary idea, you could call it "currency"

[@himagainstill]

@@KebabMusicLtd We already have a token scheme you can exchange for goods and/or services. It's called sterling.

[@chatham43]

....you're an idiot if you think you've found a "cure" for poverty....

[@chrisj9700]

Taxes will have to go up astronomically to the point where half our earnings are taxed. We will go broke.

[@ChrisfromLeedsinUK]

"I live in the system and would love to change the system" says the person ringing in to complain about a proposal to change the system...

[@DavidBennell]

yes I thought that was amusing, "well of course I would love to see the system changed, but you can't change the system, its the system you know" he has some fairly locked in thinking.

[@targetthetank]

So glad I am not the only one who saw that and was tickled, saddened, but tickled. Note: The laughter came from an American, and we are pretty bad about this as well.

[@---Tre---]

Corporations, and especially Oil Companies, have been getting a UBI from our government for decades. It's time the government works for the people and not corporations.

[@tejida815]

Imagine a couple or single parent being able to afford childcare.

[@chatham43]

...taxpayer to the rescue...!😊

[@Meridie]

This will eliminate the 1% of benefit fraud and will stop people from having 2 or 3 part-time jobs, and with automation being rolled out, it gives people a sense of financial safety

[@markzee4243]

Agreed

[@craphead9842]

This won't achieve jackshit..... except fleece a few more quid from the UK taxpayer.... Tony cuenca

[@daughterofenoch677]

1% of benefit fraud ?

[@GregorBarclay]

@@daughterofenoch677 I think they’re referring to the 1% (probably far less) of benefit recipients who are receiving it fraudulently.

[@chrisj9700]

Are you happy for your income taxes to double? That’s what the government will have to do to pay for UBI.

[@forsterchurch6242]

The point is there are ways to eliminate poverty in non-extreme taxation, which then levels up our country. It would only come from a point of raw selfishness to oppose this.

[@georgef822]

What proportion of your money am I entitled to?.

[@richard-gn3es]

@@georgef822 the part thats taxed. Same as everyone else. It's how tax works. I'd rather a ubi than big business getting subsidized.

[@lawrencehaynes6408]

​​@@richard-gn3es that's great, but it's not like this scheme would stop big business being subsidized. So my only question is how will this be financed in the real world?

[@moonfrog9878]

@@georgef822 If you’re a billionaire, then the wealth has been accumulated off the excess labour value of employees no one ‘earns’ a billion… or even a million, but taking a decent portion of that as well as tax for anyone else would fund this no problem… money doesn’t belong to any one person… except under capitalism we make it a funnel up problem and hoarders paradise… so I’m not gonna cry over billionaires/ multi millionaires paying their fair share…

[@m_b4]

Wishing for massive inflation and money debasement. Everyone will become poorer except for the super wealthy. RIP the middle classes.

[@killneel]

I'm definitely not on the Nick Ferrari camp but if everyone gets £1600 per month what's stopping the greedy landlords charging £1600 per month to rent a bedroom in a shared house? I'm genuinely curious. I want UBI to be a success and poverty to be eradicated.

[@arronscott7286]

Is anyone shocked that Nick Ferrari is so dead set against this? The man is so out of touch it’s ridiculous.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

Guy : explains that studies show it increases the number of people in work Nick : so you're paying people not to work

[@matricci2256]

Has Nick ever been right?

[@Regailion]

And it allows people to comfortably get an education, which could massively reduce brain drain

[@jordanoneill7052]

Dont forget that part where he was also outraged that people are still "allowed" to work and "bank" the salary. I'm surprised this man can figure out how to get dressed in the morning.

[@raymondo6665]

explains that studies (conducted by socialists) show it increases the number of people in work..........

[@chrisj9700]

Finland’s trial didn’t increase employment.

[@DS8G10]

Harry the employer's call was hilarious! Even Nick said 'people will say you're exploiting these workers'. Harry's response 'Yeh you're right!' 😂😂😂😂 Then he says it's because he 'lives in the system', but 'wants to change the system', but is phoning Nick to complain about a proposed change to the system! 😂

[@joshuataylor3550]

I'm glad this was noticed by others. Utterly bizarre.

[@jenny2tone242]

In other words he is perfectly happy with the system as it is because he is alright, so sod the rest.

[@Ben.Royals]

Let's be honest people like him dont usually actually think before they speak. He probably got so triggered by the idea he didn't take two seconds to sit and think before he picked up the phone.

[@ChrisSena]

I was literally about to type the same thing! When I hear callers like that I despair! Important to remind ourselves that this is not necessarily a representative sample. Honestly, I'm beginning to think UBI is an inevitability especially with AI eventually laying waste to the jobs much of the middle class currently have.

[@---Tre---]

Poverty is a policy choice. And every billionaire is a policy failure.

[@fabioq6916]

In an AI and robotics driven world, this is gonna happen. And the tax will come from the few companies that generate all the revenue in order to have consumers. Think about it. It is almost inevitable

[@peterh1353]

You can only have a certain amount of dissatisfied or unemployed people. Beyond that you have revolution. 100 years from now they will laugh at the idea of not having it.

[@wheredidugo6739]

Nick dislikes this idea because he likes the thought that poor people suffer.

[@chatham43]

...and you don't...?

[@saltney17]

@@chatham43 cry more

[@chatham43]

...sadly it's back to the colouring book again Saltney...you're our of your depth here....😊

[@saltney17]

@@chatham43 you're so, so strange

[@saltney17]

@@chatham43 keep crying

[@samt7351]

Nick Ferrari really is a dinosaur

[@adamibrahim7338]

Be quiet. Nick is a legend

[@adamibrahim7338]

stop abusing nick

[@lcg8220]

@@adamibrahim7338 Only when he stops abusing his guests and our intelligence.

[@adamibrahim7338]

@@lcg8220 says the one with 0 subscribers 🥱

[@abrahamadu2503]

Always has been.

[@katex888]

Totally agree with basic income and I hope this trial works. It would help folk like myself and my mental health, I wouldn't be sitting at home, I'd be living my best life, going to a gym or swimming, or walking in nature and eating healthier. I would be looking for a part time job too, which would give me the opportunity to spend more time with my family. I'm insentivised already 👏👏👏

[@madclancrew]

"It's about covering the basics" This is the key point of UBI. Why shouldn't every person have the right to not worry about rent and food? Imagine being able to spend a few more hours with your family cause you can afford to not take that extra shift. Or not worry about a sick day and missing a part-time shift so you don't have to dodge your landlord. There are ways of paying for it that don't involve massive tax hikes, especially not on everyone, and it could free people up to explore a lot.

[@Tnargav]

But at the same time you want those next day deliveries and everything happening at the click of a button. You can't have both.

[@madclancrew]

@@Tnargav I'd be ok giving that up for a livable wage. But also, I don't think I accept the premise. Why can't you have both? Why can't you pay someone a livable wage, which would include OT, and not treat them terribly, and have overnight delivery. The argument of "it'll cost you more"...how about the company just makes less profit. What's wrong with the CEO making less than they are right now. The average amazon worker makes 18 USD/hour. Bezos makes 193 USD/hour (approx) Why not less?

[@Tnargav]

@@madclancrew I so wish we were taxed less but unfortunately people vote for parties that don't do that as they want free money. And there you have it. Vote for parties who want less taxes and less socialism and you will earn more.

[@madclancrew]

@@Tnargav again, I think we disagree on the fundamental principle. I don't mind taxes so long as more people are supported. Putting "more money in your pocket" by taxing less doesn't change that food, rent, transportation all costs more. If you're able to take home 100 more a month, but have to spend an extra 200 on things, you're not better off. Government's job isn't to run like a business, making a profit. It's to run like a not for profit and take care of the people who need the protections most. Not business and the wealthy.

[@ErwinPommel]

It's wild to me that we've decided as a society that education is a basic right, and will be provided by the state. Healthcare is necessary for all to have freely provided. Emergency services should operate for all, free of charge. All these are basic necessities of living in society, but food and shelter are not. It's insane.

[@zivkovicable]

I started my business while receiving working tax credits for the self employed, which included housing benefit. This allowed me to reinvest earned income back into my business without having my benefits cut. In effect Universal Basic Income...I came off it after a year once my business became profitable. For the last 12 years I have been paying tax at the top rate and wouldn't resent paying much more to support a universal scheme.

[@brusselssprouts560]

Voila! Congratulations on your success.

[@tdtm82]

I'd like to work for you

[@gazfisher7391]

I wholeheartedly agree,well said. People would be financially,mentally,creatively,and socio economically better off. It would offer the opportunity for people to widen their employment horizons,uplift them from the restrictions of poverty,and broaden their ability to create meaningful benefits to the country. Instead this government deems it better to drop bombs on people.

[@tdtm82]

@@gazfisher7391 Amazing how many don't get the basics.

[@snowbind]

I currently pay the top tax rate. I have during my life claimed all kinds of benefits. I like you have literally no issue with people receiving more. I just want them to receive it. I want my tax to go towards schooling, ubi, education, housing, healthcare. All the things that make a society just, fair and empathetic.

[@markrichley4075]

UBI is long overdue. Let’s get that ball rolling!

[@nathanu6759]

Agreed. It is the modern and practical way to implement socialism.

[@tobiasmccallum9697]

How do we pay for the 1.5 trillion a year it will cost?

[@tobiasmccallum9697]

​@@nathanu6759 Ah yes, someone who doesn't care if it works financially or not 😂

[@deadwinglullaby]

@@tobiasmccallum9697 You missed the part where it has been shown to increase employment, meaning that tax income will increase massively. You also miss the part where it would eliminate poverty, reducing the upkeep cost of things like food banks, warm banks, energy grants, other gov schemes, etc. Need I go on?

[@tommyclegget3335]

​@@tobiasmccallum9697Sam Altman from OpenAI has already said he's considering distributing the huge wealth the company has made and will continue making. Its being set up for when AI takes most jobs, which is happening extremely quickly more than the average person realises. By the end of the decade millions of people will be out of work due to artificial intelligence. This gives us more time to work on ourselves mentally emotionally physically and spiritually, do the things we love, out more time into creativity etc. Humans are not supposed to live this way, hustling everyday. UBI is the inevitable future I'm looking forward to!

[@kittycatswhiskers]

Nick showing exactly who he is, laughing at the thought of ending poverty by actually giving people money.

[@daisybaggins1138]

Just remember people, when workers asked to stop child labour they said it would harm the economy and that taxes would rise, it didn't. When workers asked for a weekend, they were told it would harm the economy, and taxes would rise, and it didn't! They say this every time!!!! This clearly is the best step forward regardless of what the toss say.

[@weediestbroom]

I have to say, as someone on benefits, if I had this kind of income i would get my driving licence, get a car on the road, take a course or courses and get a the job that i always wanted.

[@bazza5699]

absolutely it would open up so many people to new opportunities

[@TableTopWolf1984]

Exactly mate, ive never understood why they dont give you driving lessons on job seekers, especially when 90% of jobs these days say a valid drivers licence is needed to apply

[@joperhop]

i would help so many people out of work, and many many more in work! People would not mind doing the lower pay jobs if they know its not their only source of income, and not need to do 2-3 jobs just to pay rent, the economy would improve because its money put back into... increasing jobs, its an awesome idea, other countries already do.

[@bazza5699]

@@TableTopWolf1984 defo it wasn't until i as in my mid30's i could afford to take lessons, and as soon as i passed my test i was able to get another job.. was such a game changer.

[@Tnargav]

@@joperhop It would help inflation, that's for sure which will only make things worse not better.

[@richard-gn3es]

With extreme automation of unskilled labour.. ai growing into front facing roles, art, music software.. a universal income will be inevitable.

[@Frank75288]

UC is £150 a fortnight , it should be that...people on the dole have had to struggle so in future everyone else who looks down on people on benefits should struggle too

[@richard-gn3es]

@@Frank75288 that seems to be some peoples mindset sure....

[@BasedSaxon]

By design

[@ronsmith4836]

You will own nothing and be happy!

[@richard-gn3es]

@@ronsmith4836 my mistake. I do love living in the dirt. And im thankful for the shared patch of grass our village has been given.

[@blueodum]

I laughed at the guy saying: "It's exploitative - that's the system we live in", when arguing against a change of that system.

[@SmileyMikee]

It's so wild that a presenter can be so combative to an idea like this, and repeat the same reaction over and over without even trying to talk about it or explain it.

[@gingernightmare9152]

He is always like this.

[@PortilloMoment]

Ferrari's MO is and always has been, 'toddler tantrum, isle two.' The man is wilfully ignorant and often, an idiot to boot.

[@jeffsuter344]

Because it's Right Wing Ferrari. He only likes wealthy toffs and is dazzled by his own self-importance.

[@CGV_CTown23]

Decrepitude stands against UBI

[@amarbyrd2520]

​@@jeffsuter344He looks it, doesn't he? I have him muted and I can still see it in his face.

[@mtlewis973]

nick ferrari’s basic incuriosity here paired with his refusal to engage with his guest (who is an expert on the subject) rather than just repeating “but who will pay!!” is really disappointing

[@Jen-tn1un]

You could take the first two words of your statement and the last three and it would be perfectly accurate.

[@chickenliver]

They never ask "who will pay?" when it involves funnelling taxpayer money to Tory peers and donors

[@garyh1572]

@@Jen-tn1un Brilliant.

[@mtlewis973]

@@chickenliver yep. or the arms to ukraine or nuclear submarines. always money for the things they want

[@chrisj9700]

@@mtlewis973 the first duty of any government is to protect the country. Are you happy for Ukraine to lose the war and what will we do when we scrap trident and then Russia deploys a nuke against us?

[@frogmanbrabs]

The idea behind this is to make more people reliant on the government for money. Once they have it up and running they can bring in the CBDC and programme the UBI to only be used for specific items and to also have an expiry date. The government don't give people something without wanting something back in exchange.

[@xlbaby]

The only person that understands 😅

[@craigsmith7457]

I worked in the benefits system, and yes, there are people who will be happy to accept and live on the minimum BUT there are plenty of people trapped in areas with low employment prospects and can't afford to commute or move to a different area! This could open up a whole new world to people! They could afford to study and work part time. They could afford to buy and run a cheap car to travel 20 miles to go to work without a huge chunk of their monthly take home going on travel costs. More people would take the gamble on starting their own business if they know their monthly bills are going to covered! Only about10% of working age people who receive benefits have no other income! About 50% of the DWP budget is state pension, around 40% is what would have been known as working tax credits and the rest is everyone else!

[@Alex-cw3rz]

I find it fascinating how incredulous Nick becomes when he says it will eliminate poverty, it seems like he thinks it's a game and if you say I'll eliminate poverty by giving them money that's unfair and he needs to play the game and make some roundabout way that will get people out of poverty.

[@TyonKree]

He saw Star Trek and took offence to how humanity lives in Utopia.

[@normanmerry5603]

Under todays definition of poverty it wont reduce poverty let alone eliminate it - thats part of the issue

[@Alex-cw3rz]

@@normanmerry5603 it would do when you have a job as well

[@chatham43]

...not really...we would just redefine poverty to a different level....you need to give this a lift more thought to be fair Alex.....😊

[@mandrake-34-]

For people questioning the cost; UBI would likely only be paid to people 16 and over, which is around 40 million people, so £800 billion in total. But you would also be able to cut some benefit spending. Most Universal Credit expenses could go. A separate pension system would be unnecessary, since current pensioners would simply continue to receive the UBI. That's at least £200 billion in savings. So we'd have to find around £600 billion. That's pretty much spot on 50% of current government spending. Now imagine that everybody in the country (and businesses) simply paid 50% more tax to fund the UBI. As an individual, you'd need to be currently paying £40,000 a year in tax to break even. For most people, the increase in tax paid would be dwarfed by the extra income they'd be receiving. It's all scary sounding numbers, but the reality is that only the richest would actually lose out. It's expensive but still very much affordable. The real barriers are political, rather than financial. --edit-- I should add that lower values benefit proportionally more. For a £15k UBI (a 25% reduction) you only need to find £400 billion (a 33% reduction). So it could be a lot more politically viable to go that route. Extending the state pension payments (~£11k) to everybody would cost an extra £240 billion, which is 20% of current spending. That'd be far easier to sell than 50% more spending.

[@DavidBennell]

Well you can also get creative, by adding wealth tax to bring in more tax and 3 years mandatory military/state service after school 18 to 21 if you don't go to Uni, which would lower public spending in other areas. that should add another 100Bn in tax and save another 200Bn in spending.

[@jabbadabbajew6035]

UBI is the WEF’s plan. There will be a few hyper rich and then everyone else. Cattle for the elites. ……. and these idiots are promoting it lol.

[@jamesbarbour8400]

Should reallly have you in Government rather than the clowns we've currently been lumbered with. You seem to have a much better grasp on the situation than our MPs, even with all their so called 'advisiors' !

[@chrisj9700]

Fiscal illiteracy from the dianne Abbott school of maths. UBI will cost over £1tn which is almost equal to total government spending so scrapping all welfare benefits won’t save anything. Everyone’s taxes will rise to the point where over half our earnings are being taxed. The rich will flee the country before that happens and then we’ll run out of money. And you assume people will continue working which they won’t because the finland trial failed to encourage the unemployed to work.

[@daphnescombine]

The argument for UBI is posited well in Rutger Bregman’s book on this topic. One of his arguments is that taking the stress away from people about how they are going to put food on the table , for example, from day to day leads to better health outcomes across the board, reducing health costs and promoting more integration in the workforce. It also gives people more choice on what work they do. The truth is that, in this case £1600 pm will not give people a great lifestyle, just a basic one. The vast majority want more than that, so will work. As far as funding goes, progressive taxation and lower costs (health benefits, lower costs for administering the system, lower crime, less antisocial behaviour) suggest that it can work, should we choose to go this way. This is about societal fairness which seems to have fallen off the political agenda for the past 40+ years.

[@windymiller5058]

Imagine calling Nick Ferrari. Then imagine calling Nick Ferrari to agree with him. Then imagine ringing Nick Ferrari to agree with him that giving everyone £1,600 a month, including you, is a bad idea 🤦‍♂️

[@ryvyr]

More interesting than narrow reactions from detractors is how much of society seems to have accepted growing egregious disparity in health and wealth, whilst those of the latter are more than capable of supporting the very society in which provided them such wealth.

[@NickDusting]

Think about what having UBI would mean to those that rely on food banks or nurses who we seem to want to clap but not pay: Their lives would be immeasurably better. If you object to that ask yourself what's the measure of a nation that pours scorn in the poor rather than helping them.

[@BasedSaxon]

It will be great at first, but these great ideas will come at a cost, digital programmable currency will mean that your money is not your own, and as the money was given to you it will basically be a voucher with terms and conditions. Basically wake up

[@alanharper23]

​@@BasedSaxon The money you earn already comes with terms and conditions, whether that's fulfilling a contract or delivering services. The whole point of UBI is that it is universal; it doesn't require anything to "earn" it. As for digital currency, 92% of the world's money is already digital, we stopped predominantly using cash long ago. That doesn't mean it's "not your own."

[@BasedSaxon]

@@alanharper23 YET. When we go to cbdc's they are programmable, like what China has. Social credit system isn't too far away either. Step by step. I still use cash, but with eco policies you can easily be stopped buying meat for "Muh climate". I don't get where your unbreakable trust of the government comes from? Perhaps you should learn some history

[@nicolarobinson3140]

Outside of the South of England 1600 take home would be more than £100 than those on 21,000 a year (like myself as a social care worker who earns 1485 after tax)!! So somebody on ui would not only be escaping from poverty they would in a more advantageous situation than the average worker?! Or do people assume 1600 is poverty wages? Where do the commentators on this page live?! Personally given a choice I’d be leaving my job, claiming ui, and acquire everything I get personally from my job on a voluntary basis!! This is not incentivising people to work it’s doing the polar opposite! And u can still earn an additional salary without touching the ui payment? How can this even be remotely considered either equitable or sustainable?!🤷🏻‍♀️

[@ronsmith4836]

@@alanharper23 OH that's ok then, nothing to worry about then. They love it in china!

[@jonmatthews721]

It's amazing that people can put forward ideas to help end poverty but are also proven to get people back into work and they're immediately questioned as though it's an awful idea.

[@FoDStinkyKid]

we have shortages now, when people get £1600 a month more lets say... (farmers) they lower their hours because life's never been better.... then what?.... again is the 16 year old going to work his summer job at the local water park 8 hours a day or live a nicer life with his UBI?

[@finalcut612]

@@FoDStinkyKid UBI does not reduce employment. perhaps that water park should consider making the summer job a little more attractive rather than underpaying employees and then complaining that no one wants to work. If the job isn't worth having, it's clearly not worth having done.

[@ziggywiggy3650]

I hope they publish fully all the details and who the participants are with a detailed breakdown of where the money is spent and on what individually. It would be interesting to see...

[@Alex-cw3rz]

Nick is economically illiterate

[@normanmerry5603]

he is not the only one

[@lookatmyroflcopter]

But ubi has been shown to increase the economic output, which in turn boosts tax. We always complain about the bottom but never about the top of the food chain

[@muckymedway]

a universal basic income of £1600 a month for 37.5 million working age people would cost £720 billion every year. Current the uk spends about £231 billion on benefits every year. How would this gigantic cost be funded?

[@curmudgeon1933]

As Ferrari 'earns' £78,000 p.a. I guess he would happily donate his £1600 a month UBI to the charity of his choice. As he thinks a life of hedonistic luxury is possible on £20,000 a year, he must be feeling almost guilty about his huge paycheck. I don't understand why he even bothers to work at all with his £4 million pound fortune.

[@DarkDuckGaming]

Simply taxing the big corporations what they've evaded every year would pay for this. It's a great idea and would give people security in their living situations as well as the ability to go for the jobs they want instead of having 2-3 part time ones that make them wanna commit. This will surely help prevent a rise in homelessness and overall mental well-being

[@LukeJamesActor]

Population growing, autonomy in many jobs, less jobs available. A basic level of income is needed at some point.

[@johnrussell3961]

Or AI decides we are redundant .

[@LukeJamesActor]

@@johnrussell3961 as we progress with AI, that’ll become more apparent.

[@renlysotherlover294]

“Participants paid not to work” researcher explicitly states participants are typically working and can continue to work

[@rickyturner223]

my wife and I are in our 30s we saved for years to buy a house, we are lucky to be able to have gotten on the property ladder, we both work full time and earn decent wages each. We aren't rich but we aren't on minimum wage either. We have a 3 year old and would love a second but my wife's employer doesn't offer enhanced maternity pay so she would drop to stat pay while she is off. We don't have car payments as both of our cars are old but this comes with its own issues or maintenance. Between the mortgage, sorting stuff around the house, the child, nursery fees, and astronomical bills for food, fuel and utilities we genuinely cant afford to go on holiday and haven't been away since 2018 when we got married and certainly cant afford for her to take 9 months off work. A UBI would take care of the mortgage and bills. This would free up the rest of our income to invest in the house, put the heating on in October rather than sitting under blankets until you finally break around Dec and have to put the heating on. it might allow us to go on a holiday or something wild like drop a day at work and spend more time together with our little boy or i could leave my 9-5 and peruse a career I enjoy like photography or woodworking. To think that a UBI is going to turn the whole nation in to unemployable layabouts is nothing but propaganda from the elites who like to keep the rich, rich and the poor, poor and turn working man against working man so that we are too busy fighting over the scraps (people complaining about train drivers striking... "they are on 70k i wish i was on 70k" when in fact your enemy isn't the bloke who gets out of bed every day at 7am and goes to work for 70k a year its the hedge fund manager making 70k a month and lobbying the government) so that we don't unite and tear down this whole corrupt system.

[@deanolium]

What's really sad is that there are some semi-valid arguments against UBI such as the risk of inflation (everyone has a base-level of money on top of their incomes which means unscrupulous businesses could then increase their prices) or creating a downwards pressure on wages -- though these arguments are theoretical and there are potentially ways to combat them. But instead they go to the arguments which show they don't understand UBI in the slightest. That you're removing all the money wasted on means-testing benefits and enforcing them and that's helping to pay for a big part of this. Rather than wait to see what the results of these studies are and then argue based on those facts, they're just going with their gut instinct that essentially any kind of government handout is bad and would just lead to people doing nothing with their lives. That you should work just to live where their relationship with their employer is akin to an abusive relationship.

[@normanmerry5603]

Except the savings will be a very minor % of teh cost. And the poorest with families already get 20k a year in terms of free rent and rates, benefits and the like so in some cases will be worse off

[@bob_the_bomb4508]

@@normanmerry5603 it’s a study. I think it’s not unreasonable to expect the final rate of a UBI would be set to stop people being worse off. Indeed the whole point of a study is to add facts to the discussion.

[@grahamleiper1538]

I could see it affecting minimum wage, but people wouldn't be trapped in minimum wage jobs in the same way they are currently.

[@dzonbrodi514]

It's so weird that this is happening under the most draconian Tory regime we have ever had.

[@jebusgod]

its isn't a government trial though is it? I might be wrong but I thought it was a University running it and it would be funded by external people

[@TimMcKnight]

Thank you!! I was thinking this same thing...maybe they already think the populous is lazy and so will squander the money, not work and prove a point. I'm a UX Designer by trade...it's super easy to run an experiment thinking with every fibre of your being that X will happen. The whole thing here is, IF this turns out to be a success...will they go ahead and implement something on that basis? It is a trial after all - thinking this is the most we'll hear about this regardless of the outcome of the experiment.

[@basilfawlty8244]

Not really. It's a talking point. A distraction. Whilst this is being discussed, their destruction of the NHS is being ignored.

[@dzonbrodi514]

@@TimMcKnight As the other poster who replied to me said, it's probably not government funded. It's a very small sample size, only thirty people, so hard to extrapolate anything from that to 60 million people. It could only be done on a larger scale in conjunction with some pretty radical taxation and I can't see any of our bought and sold for politicians or media people getting on board with that.

[@keithpanton7486]

Nick clearly pretending he doesn't know that poverty costs a nation BILLIONS.

[@xAce99x]

It should be implemented but not for new foreigners

[@RidvanHarlicaj]

James O,Brien: People who earn 10× that, will be getting their orders to start ranting and raving how this is unsustainable". Cue in Nick Ferrari.

[@harrismazari5484]

the best part is James' show comes on after Nick's. So James' knows what he is doing (saying).

[@vivo-audio]

It will end poverty related anxiety and give poorer people a chance to invest in their business ideas. Every penny spent is penny injected into the local and wider economy. It makes sense on so many levels, including financial security and overall happiness. It will end poverty and homelessness.

[@geoffcarlton4047]

What if, some of those people haven't made the best financial decisions previously, what would make them now start making sound financial choices?

[@yiguanas812]

It would be hopelessly naive to expect Universal Basic Income to be anything other than "Universal" Basic Income. UBI would be implemented by people who are unshakably committed to an identity politics / equity agenda i.e. the amount paid will depend upon arbitrary criteria like a social / carbon credit score or whether you belong to the minority of the month. Dealing with such people is like dealing with the Devil.

[@vivo-audio]

@@yiguanas812 Which minority annoys you this month?

[@yiguanas812]

@@vivo-audio That's like asking someone if they still beat their wife. You score 0/10 for originality and 0/10 for effort. Your intentions have been duly noted.

[@JRHainsworth]

"Until we can change the system, I'd like to work within the system, and exploit my workers. And that's why I would not like to change the system."

[@cynthiamorris1874]

Our old age state pension is the worst in Europe, are they going to increase that too?

[@robbiemoore2884]

I like the idea, I'm in full time work but still constantly need more money. Just doesnt feel right that I work hard and get very little for it. UBI will make things far less pressured, better for everyone that way.

[@FoDStinkyKid]

it will just be exploited by price increases, but even if it does work?... people would lower their hours.... what happens when your toilet clogs or shower starts leaking.... your plumber you normally use has lowered his hours to focus on his dream of producing techno music..... you just need to look at the first lockdown people LOVED staying home in the sun being paid...

[@robbiemoore2884]

That plumber can still work though, and they'll be earning more money so there's incentive to do so. Ubi just means it he's got not business left he won't starve or be homeless.

[@FoDStinkyKid]

i dont know about you, but i own my own house, and £1600 would cover that, all the bills and have change out of that, and if i work i get more???? i would be absolutely MINTED and I'm only currently on like £11 something an hour with my partner.... what will i spend all this extra money on? along with everyone else getting the same? we have shortages in everything... i dont think the person sat behind the desk in your local gym/airport/doctors/screwfix loves their job that much to sit there when the're getting £1600 more a month.... i know i wouldnt if prices stay the same....

[@robbiemoore2884]

@@FoDStinkyKid you earn £11 an hour and own your own home... but here's the thing, since people won't be so enthusiastic to work as a Receptionist or toilet cleaner since they don't financially have to, the salaries of said workers would rise to encourage workers in that field.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

To the people who say "people won't work they'll just sit around" Says more about you than the country at large and the actually reality of the situation as studies show it increases people in work.

[@johndoe-vy4bt]

You are delusional. Would you clean toilets for a living earning minium wage or do nothing and get paid the same ?

[@snowbind]

But also, who cares if they do? Why shouldn't it be okay to spend your only existence relaxing?

[@jenny2tone242]

@@snowbind Exactly 👍🏻

[@himagainstill]

IIRC from the study in Finland, some people didn't work, but most either changed the amount of work or did something else productive with time freed up. Starting businesses, retraining, childcare, etc. Not having to be so precarious gave them the freedom to make those decisions. The arguments about how we pay for it are pointless. When the government is set on doing something, it'll find ways to pay for it. Can't seem to find money to invest in the NHS or public transport, but somehow can find money to pay for massive road-building schemes, handing money to oil companies with no strings attached, or bungs to political allies. How will we pay for it? If we're serious about it, we'll find ways to pay for it.

[@johndoe-vy4bt]

@@himagainstill Same silly arguments with no merit. Just because it worked on small group of ppl it does not mean it's suitable for millions. Apples and oranges mate. I also love how you have no idea where to get the money for it but "if we are serious we will find it" You can be deadly serious about landing on the sun but it's not gonna heppen. I suggest google "hyperinflation"

[@williamparry9314]

The way things are going you will need £400 a week for the food bill.

[@chatham43]

....that's the cost of lockdown for you...price we have to pay....😊

[@nigelfarley814]

Where do I sign up!

[@johnny141093]

"they are exploited, that's capitalism for you" he was so close

[@saga685]

£1600 would have just paid my monthly rent when i lived in london. I'd still need to work but it would have guaranteed a roof over my head

[@johnrussell3961]

The landlords will raise rents . You won’t be better off, they will.

[@markb9488]

@@johnrussell3961 ah, but this is where you could bring in rent controls, and landlords have no excuse to no to abide, and BTW you would get a new slew of landlords...like myself who aren't money-grabbing charging fair and competative rent..

[@Tnargav]

@@markb9488 Oh yes, and there will be johnnie walker pouring from the taps as well.

[@paulclay4229]

The thing that is barely discussed about UBI is that it would save money for everyone replacing what it's a dysfunctional, punitive benefits system. Can't help thinking that the figure was for the London trial and the North East was an afterthought

[@liz9147]

This is the levelling up we need.

[@Athanael777]

UBI is long overdue, with the latest developments in AI it's becoming more and more urgent to implement.

[@ralalbatross]

No James, it was a plasma TV. Important to remember. Nowadays its iPhones and coffee. Coffee. For 5 quid. Ignoring the fact that we don't actually want to pay a fiver for a coffee, and would much rather pay less, but apparently despite close to zero wage growth in the last ten years, our corporate paymasters have apparently decided that we definitely should watch our food costs inflate year on year by 5-10%.

[@madaknevarski6478]

1 MP's expenses would pay for 12.5 people's UBI

[@lynnburlison4082]

This is being billed as something positive. It's being repackaged and put back out there as the forerunner to digital currancy.

[@xlbaby]

People don’t get it. Crazy.

[@windsorSJ]

I think UBI is a great idea. I've been pushing this with my friends for years. I've only one complaint. The research group is too small. I think for it to have any real impact it needs to launch in a small town to all residents then see what the economic consequences are to people and businesses within that town.

[@Blackstar-wj7ld]

In reality the sample size needs to be even bigger than that in order to measure the effect on the whole population across the board. In an ideal world the sample size would just be "Wales". Once everyone sees the positive economic impact, it can be expanded to encompass the rest of the UK.

[@bob_the_bomb4508]

30 is a sample size perfectly suited to something called a “Student ‘t’ test”. It’s a sample size that’s comparatively cheap to fund and can be used to see if it’s worth funding a bigger trial.

[@yiguanas812]

It would be hopelessly naive to expect Universal Basic Income to be anything other than "Universal" Basic Income. UBI would be implemented by people who are unshakably committed to an identity politics / equity agenda i.e. the amount paid will depend upon arbitrary criteria like a social / carbon credit score or whether you belong to the minority of the month. Dealing with such people is like dealing with the Devil.

[@bob_the_bomb4508]

@@yiguanas812 citation needed.