LDS Relief Society Presidents Speak Up | Ep. 1900

In a captivating panel discussion, former Relief Society Presidents from Mormonism share their raw and honest experiences navigating the complexities of their roles. From confronting gender inequalities to grappling with spiritual doubts, these women offer a rare glimpse into the challenges faced by women in leadership positions within a patriarchal system. Their stories are both empowering and heartbreaking, providing a thought-provoking exploration of faith, identity, and the pursuit of authenticity.
Show Notes: www.mormonstories.org/portfol...
Chapters
00:00:00 Intro
00:05:55 What is a Relief Society president?
00:06:58 Ricky Hein from Georgia
00:10:15 Elisa Jones
00:13:10 Marion Johnson
00:16:33 Shelley Densley
00:19:40 What is the Relief Society?
00:23:05 Do they report to anyone as the RS President?
00:26:15 Was there formal training for the Relief Society President?
00:30:40 The mantle of the Relief Society President
00:49:15 Were any of the compensated for their work
00:59:44 Being a woman in a patriarchal system
01:09:25 Worthiness in the church
01:10:30 Meetings where the women are not involved
01:17:05 Responding to the idea that they were given more power than any other women
01:31:15 Women in the church have to be SO careful
01:36:00 What did they love about being the Relief Society President?
02:04:14 Spirit of Discernment
02:11:20 Did being a RS President affect their faith?
02:17:10 Regrets as the Relief Society President?
02:2??? Advice they would give to Relief Society Presidents
02:27:40 Rapid Fire Questions
02:31:55 The role of a woman in the church
02:44:30 What if someone said “Should I be the Relief Society President”
02:48:45 What advice would they give to the Mormon leaders?
02:54:05 Should the church give women the priesthood?
02:58:25 Responding to Camille Johnson on higher education/working while having babies
03:06:25 What caused them to lose their orthodox faith?
03:16:50 What is a loss that they count at this moment?
03:26:04 Learning to listen to yourself
03:31:10 Are they healthy and happy since leaving?
03:33:11 Afraid of consequences?
03:36:05 Closing thoughts
03:44:25 Upcoming panels
___________________
At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.
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1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology
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3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions
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[@Jenli-cu2hv]

I struggled so much through 20 years of marriage. LDS teaching blinded me, I didn’t realize there were different options for me. When I told my bishop I was getting a divorce. He told me even if I was abused, I should not break the temple covenant…His words struck me. Right there, I knew not only I needed to end this marriage but also it was time to end LDS nonsense. I was 46 at that time. I had to build literally everything from ground zero. It’s been 8 years. My life has changed for much better. Right now, I am financially independent and I got the education that I always dreamed of. My three daughters also left the LDS church. I’m so happy for them that they are free to choose their own paths and live authentically.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

❤️❤️❤️

[@layahails9655]

The same thing happened to me .

[@lisagrace6471]

You're so inspiring to me- thank you.

[@barbararuiz2690]

That is inspiring. Thanks for sharing.

[@nicolewade160]

🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽YAAASSSS good on you!!! Be proud of all you’ve accomplished!!! Not just for U but for ur BABIES!!!

[@maryannwatkins7166]

Last night I told my husband I’m contacting Salt Lake, and having my name removed from the church rolls, officially.

[@Cocoon68]

Its such a delicate balance. When your spouse is still in and your mentally and physically out. There’s a constant battle going on inside you that never ends

[@suzyvivian7514]

I'm pretty sure there's more to it. But if that works, let us know

[@MamallamaLinda]

​@Cocoon68 I agree. I went through that a few years ago. My entire family wouldn't listen to anything I had to say. I finally sent a letter to the church hq and my bishop. I got a letter back confirming my name removal. It was the most liberating day of my life.

[@Cocoon68]

@@MamallamaLinda very difficult! I’m so glad my kids left years ago! Funny how now I’m so very grateful! At the time I was devastated! Oh the irony!

[@celicalostandfound973]

@@Cocoon68 So well put. I left 3 years ago and my Wife is still TBM. I want to have my records removed, but my wife doesn't want me to, I have kept it to not hurt her more than this terrible experience has already done.

[@gigposium9189]

Please have a single moms episode! I was treated horribly as a young single mom in the early/mid 2000’s. I’ve got so many stories. I would love to hear from more single moms like me who have left the church.

[@chandralaframboise963]

I too had bad experiences as a single mom..I might have been able to gaslight myself about what I was experiencing except it was such a striking difference compared to my experience at church before my divorce (when I was Mormon-privileged). I agree, we need a panel of single moms and their Mormon experiences).

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

💯

[@katduvall]

As a single mom, you are shunned, gossiped about, Nobody's going to bring you meals. I stayed Semi-Active after my divorce that was 10 years ago. The stories my kids tell me now about how everyone talked about us and what we were accused of because we became the scapegoat of our particular neighborhood simply because I was a single mom.

[@janeagreene2849]

THIS 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

[@danielclingen34]

This is a great idea!

[@c.harris9989]

I am a single female, and I just sent the church my resignation letter 30 minutes ago and I'm PANICKING!! Tell me I did the right thing!!!!

[@tracygrist9550]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@janepolewchak731]

You did the right thing! I know. It will be OK.💗

[@larias3907]

You’ll be ok. Now you have e the rest of your life ahead of you! Find joy.

[@wyflyguy114]

You actually be better than fine

[@annw1395]

When I married my nonmember husband, I requested my name taken off the records. At first, I felt free. But over time, I missed the Church very much, despite going to a Catholic church. After about a dozen years, I returned to the LDS church, and have joyfully been a member for the last 28 years. I recommend you pray, talk with a trusted member, and listen to Conference talks. The Lord loves you.

[@rebeccasirrine947]

When I was younger and still a member, I had a Relief Society president who was my same age. One day, we were talking and she said, "you know, in order to do this calling the way the church expects you to, you have to neglect your family."

[@lisagrace6471]

Eeek.

[@nicolewade160]

So sooo sad & things have NOT changed 1 bit!!! I pray you’ve gotten out & are thriving!!! We should be thriving not just struggling to survive! You deserve sooo much ! Best of luck w all you do & try

[@Alibee123]

Ooft. This brought back memories. In my last ward I went to the reliefsociety concearned for a family struggling and was told that ‘the government helps with that.’ I then started to notice that there were certain families that got ‘support’ (attention).. and the ‘nobodies’.. that were the ones most struggling yet offering all they could to feel worthy of acceptance or importance. When I decided to move on from the church the reliefsociety president of the ward was one of my ‘visiting teachers’ I was struggling terribly with new born multiples as my husband worked away from home periods. I’d moved away from my support network for a temple marriage. I was assaulted by extended family when I asked them for support and told not to make them look bad. When I reached out to my visiting teachers one of them my reliefsociety president, she cold told me to read my scriptures more and left me with a handout of a lantern reminding me to hold up my light for all to see… It was a blow when I was already on rock bottom.

[@hanako4475]

As a teen convert and former member of my wards YW presidency, I'm so grateful for this panel, for Margi, and for the women in the church. The church is corrupt, but these women take this broken structure and STILL manage to create love and beauty within it! 💜

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

💯

[@nancyjaynes2868]

😊

[@shanejensen8484]

Corrupt?

[@mindyssticktogether]

@@shanejensen8484yes. When you use the money as a portfolio to hire money and don’t use it to help those in need, you are corrupt.

[@maryellenchitwood4681]

@@shanejensen8484That's up to you to search out. The information is abundant.

[@roxannemiller2378]

You're not given power, you're given chores, tasks and busy work.

[@brendkillpack3357]

High demand cult.

[@wesliepowell5698]

EXACTLY! BIZZZY WORK to keep us too dizzy to stop & think & question.

[@kellybrandon1179]

Milking cows sounds funner

[@Famr4evr]

That is not true. Why is playing with nursery children “busywork”? Why is it a “chore” to serve the sisters in the ward? Serving the sisters in the ward is a blessing. It empowers both sides. It uplifts both sides.

[@anandrew6641]

That's one way to view it, very negative though. You can inspire, teach, be a role model, etc.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

Well this was the best RS meeting I ever attended!

[@madzabinga8382]

Well said!!

[@dehende07]

Ditto😊

[@chandralaframboise963]

😄

[@marionjohnson8596]

That was so sweet. It means a lot to me personally.

[@pamelacampbell9459]

Amen!

[@anniejones8680]

Shelly is my long-time friend, we met almost 30 years ago at church when our oldest kids were in nursery together. She has always been an awesome example to me, I was really impressed with her confidence and bravery sharing her stories and experiences in this panel today.

[@jaynine]

Shelley is an amazing and profound person, it is clear. Kudos to the others, as well.

[@LaurenFindlay-xp4bd]

“Playing the role of a mature woman” as a newlywed child - wow that resonates.

[@jmsmafam]

Marian's final three words: "released with love." Damn, that got me. 😭 Imagine if those of us who have left Mormonism were genuinely thanked for our service and released with love. The amount of suffering that could be avoided, on both ends of the spectrum.

[@marionjohnson8596]

Right?! Can you even imagine what it would be like if the church taught Christ like love even for those who choose to leave the flock? If it was taught at conference that those who leave have their reasons which should be respected and they should be loved and supported in that difficult decision? Instead of demeaned and judged? Imagine the heartache and pain that would be prevented. Instead, it’s taught from the pulpit that those who leave are suspect: they’re lazy, lax, offended, deceived, and have nothing to offer anymore. How toxic. How UN Christ like. And how much trauma ensues because of those teachings.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

The LDS church has indeed failed most, if not all, Mormons.

[@Lovethisguy-kf1ku]

It turned me into the monster I am today.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

Excited to hear from a long oppressed group!

[@piphastings6734]

I agree. We need to here from more Mid-Singles, the long oppressed group in the church.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

💯

[@user-bw3fl7fj9w]

​@piphastings673i joined in my early 30s, followed the counsel of RS leadership and here I am 30+ years later... and, feel yes we're lucky if they remember there's women who never married or had children!

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

💯

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

I love the conversation about the "pick me" girl and "being chosen". It's a passive and disempowered way to live life. 😭😭😭

[@ATebbs1]

Agreed. This hit home for me too. As a member of the church my self worth is (and I’m trying to change it) based upon this idea of “being chosen”, especially if it’s seen as a substantial job or calling. My self-worth and identity are all messed up.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

Love the point about Mormon women always having to be so careful. It's 💯 true.

[@esetaMotuga1971]

I used to be nervous at cooking. Since I was taught growing up you have to do everything perfectly. As far as work around the home goes.

[@Mp162]

I actually despise going to RS, even after 40+ yrs, cause of all the sign ups to make and bring food to people and activities I don’t need to attend to occupy my time after working all day! I dropped all social media during Covid cause of all the DM being sent out and meal trains for all these families wanting you to send gift cards for families to eat at restaurants ( like Red Robin, Olive Garden, BJ’s, etc!) which the families could have paid for themselves. Been that RSP and burnt out now! Raised my blood pressure and gave me anxiety! Dr said I had to start saying no and to set boundaries! When I was released as RSP, blood pressure went back to normal and anxiety went away. Go figure!

[@kellybrandon1179]

"It's not a sin to say no"

[@lotion_laura]

I got sick on my mission. When I came home, I was healed.

[@carolekstrom5651]

W❤😅

[@paro9059]

I love sisters telling their truth. I too was a RS president. I asked to be released after 2 years. I could not align myself with the submissive role I was expected to accept. It was the best decision for me. I was conflicted on so many levels. There were many wonderful experiences as well♥️

[@IBNED]

I think many would like to know what we're the conflicts...😊

[@esetaMotuga1971]

That Submission part makes me feel so far away from the Church. But I actually believe in the Church of Jesus Christ. For the Latter Day Saints. Not of the LDS. Because I too, am a female Representative for Jesus Christ. N I did receive them in the time as a member of the Calvary Chapel Golden Springs Diamond Bar. Not here at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. But God has me here for a Reason. Since BY, changed a lot of things so will God make changes where it's needed ...05/30/2024. Because it was GodNJesus and the HolySpirit whom actually answered my prayers of who Mormon and Joseph Smith were. Since 1997... After two women 18 years old visited our Pontenova house in Hacienda heights CA. USA.

[@esetaMotuga1971]

In the 4Nephi....

[@esetaMotuga1971]

Thank God for Jesus Christ for sending them to my house or I wouldn't be able to see my family on the other side of the veil. According to Ether and Moroni....I say all of these in Jesus Name Amen and Amen

[@esetaMotuga1971]

Thank God for Jesus for all of your honesty and the hosts of the show.

[@ConnieRichard]

I joined the live broadcast, but went back to the beginning. I want to say how much I enjoyed each of the women's introductions. I literally said out loud, "Wow. Such beautiful people." Thank you, ladies, for putting yourselves out there so selflessly to help other women.

[@debatosis]

It’s soo totalllly obscene, that so much responsibility expected from one who has babies, and works and husbands in Med school, seriously women need to scream F No and take their power back from these patriarchal structures who are demanding your very life’s blood to prove one’s worth to an undeserving institution!!!!

[@francoissaintonge3032]

Amen!❤

[@Lovethisguy-kf1ku]

F the patriarchy. Taylor swift is my prophet.

[@kirstieanderson9399]

There is something poetic and profound to me about the way the women are sharing a microphone. Ideally each woman would have her own. But when they are taking turns it's symbolic of women supporting women, listening and validating different experiences. As if to say, each voice matters and even though we live in a society that doesn't hand out enough microphones to our sex we will make it work to allow all of our voices to be heard.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

Love this!

[@shadowmomma]

This is really deep

[@shanejensen8484]

such a woke perspective. I have these conversations with my mom, wife, daughters. All in different stages. None feel unheard or overwhelmed. my wife is our current RSP. She is busy doing all the things that these ladies describe. She has tons of support and help. She loves the women and has reactivated 3 ladies who are very happy.

[@jacksonadams1031]

​@@shanejensen8484 just because the women in your life feel that way, doesn't mean all women feel that way. If the church works for you and them, great. No one is asking you, or them, to leave. It isn't working for a lot of people anymore.

[@shanejensen8484]

Disagree with you Jackson. When you make a statement that sounds like you are speaking for most people, then you need to be called out. The truth is closer to a small, but vocal/woke group that love to exaggerate everything. Can’t handle someone else telling them what to do. Sick of it.

[@aircastlearchitect]

These women are incredibly inspiring. Thank you all for having the courage to come on today and share your stories.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

WOW! This is the most uplifting and inspiring podcast I have seen! Thank you ladies for sharing your thoughts and experiences with us! Thank you Margi for choosing these amazing guests and thank you to Mormon Stories! You bless my life every week! ❤️❤️❤️

[@celicalostandfound973]

My nephew just came home early from his mission. I think that stat is very realistic.

[@user-ck4vz4jo6e]

I’ve heard the number is around 30%. When I grew up in the church during the 50s and 60s, it was almost unheard of. God bless your nephew 😊

[@katduvall]

I tried three separate times to come home for my mission and was pretty much held captive in a foreign country. I hope your nephew is okay and I hope he knows he did the right thing.

[@Cutie11083]

The church should pay people for their callings

[@strangeclouds7]

They're going to have to pretty soon. They're not going to have anyone left to fill callings lol

[@oddcheese6384]

As a working woman I could see that being a huge problem for the church if they did. Look at what happened in the Catholic Church in history when they instituted a paid clergy. Backstabbing, murder, and abuse.

[@BlackJack-hp1jy]

I think ppl would get crazier if they get paid and they are in their powers. what happened in our branch in Australia was when our branch started to have so many missionaries (12-14), which was obviously overwhelming for a tiny branch that had only 20 active members. We did a great job baptised so many members, so we had almost 100 members in records. That was why we received so many missionaries. Australian Brisbane Mission started to offer help by letting people holding activities in elder missionaries place, inviting ppl in other wards to be elder missionaries coming help our branch. Everything started to get out of control. Some members started to overstate their testimony, some members didn't want to get released from their big callings, missionaries making unrealistic goals. Just because they didn't have to do things themselves and they didn't need to use their tithing to cover expenses. Those nicer and responsible members couldn't confront those who exaggerate their faith.

[@kennethd.9436]

Only fair, the Q15 are paid.

[@andreatimmers1720]

Keep dreaming, you pay them

[@Cocoon68]

Thank you Margi for your support and insights!

[@paulajaneabel5205]

Margi was the perfect leader today. She instigated the conversation and then got out of the way. Kudos.

[@meghanwebb8829]

I agree. Every time I hear Margi I’m so grateful for her voice, insight, questions, tenderness. I love her as a panel moderator.

[@deannastocks6382]

Women run the church. I was in a relief society Presidency and my president made everything happen in our ward. Men flex their power but I always knew that she made things happen and she made things work because women get stuff done. We are all bad asses! Love this panel and I loved the bishop panel too. So much love and honesty. Thank you for being brave enough to share!

[@debbiefodor7088]

My husband was High Priest Group Leader when I left the church. He used to come home from meetings so frustrated because he felt nothing was achieved. My opinion is that many of the male church leaders are impotent with regard to their callings. My father-in-law drove himself to church one Sunday after his driver’s licence had been cancelled due to him being legally blind. This was witnessed by church members who had known him for decades - former bishops and stake presidents. They knew that my father-in-law was not supposed to be driving. Guess what they did? They talked about what they should do and then did nothing. They should have called the police. A few weeks later, my proud and arrogant father-in-law, who was not going to let anyone tell him what he could and couldn’t do, was playing around in his car, driving up and down his driveway, mistakenly rammed backwards into his garage door and then overcorrected by putting his car into drive and slamming his foot down on the accelerator. He smashed through his heavy wooden gates, ripping them off their hinges, flew across the road and smashed into the front bedroom of the house opposite, where an elderly woman was sleeping. Amazingly no one was hurt. He lived on a road maybe 10 houses down from a school. Had this incident happened a little later in the morning, the street would have been full of teenagers walking to school and parents dropping their kids off. People would have been hurt and killed. It was a disastrous situation, but it need not have happened if the priesthood men who saw him that Sunday had performed their civic and moral duty and called the police. I reiterate - those priesthood holders were his former bishop, his home teacher, his neighbour. They had all had interactions with him and knew he was not doing well mentally or physically and that he had lost his driving licence. I feel nothing but contempt for those priesthood holders. If my father-in-law had killed anyone, they would have had blood on their hands.

[@Cutie11083]

Lady in the white shirt is the first person I've heard say race was a factor in leaving the church. Bless you.

[@freyast2213]

But she’s the only one who’s still in the church? Maybe she left & came back & I missed that part.

[@Cutie11083]

@@freyast2213oh she’s brave

[@hippychicken82]

I thought she was only one still in

[@Cutie11083]

@@hippychicken82 I think she’s a pimo

[@lotion_laura]

She's the only one there still in the church.

[@brendaclement6753]

I’m only halfway through this video and finding it fascinating, these women are brave and so real. I left the church 40 years ago.

[@rebeccamikkelsen8755]

I loved listening to Marian. She and I are of the same generation. I felt like I failed my 6 children who left the church. Some of them are Queer. I was TBM before the pandemic with a full and sagging shelf. The pandemic was a blessing for me to stop being "church busy" and take the time to explore those shelf items.

[@chrislatham7328]

If the church were true, we wouldn’t have to beg for things to change.

[@Lovethisguy-kf1ku]

Yeah, a true church would just do what you tell them to do.

[@strangeclouds7]

​@@Lovethisguy-kf1kuL

[@andreatimmers1720]

BINGO

[@chelseamo8248]

I think Reform is possible.

[@OrangePickleAudiobooks]

@@Lovethisguy-kf1kuthere would be no need for change.

[@camilliatobler3810]

If the Relief Society in my Ward growing up had half the love and kindness you share here, I feel that my mother wouldn't have been so depressed and suicidal going to church. Everyone ostracized her because she had a horrible fear of public speaking and refused to do a talk in sacrament meeting, which was, to them, the same as flipping the bird in Jesus's face

[@jules5807]

What a fantastic , insightful panel . I’m as far removed from LDS as possible and live in the UK. However , the way these beautiful ladies articulated themes such as church patriarchy was relatable to ALL women in many ways. Bravo 👏 ❤

[@KristenConnelly-vk6ph]

I have been unbelievably touched and moved by this discussion. I feel so grateful to these strong, beautiful women for bravely sharing their truth. And I am grateful for this forum that made this possible. Thank you. ❤

[@ambiancestudio6901]

Thank you for reminding me how lovely LDS women are. I’m in my angry phase of deconstruction and I needed to be reminded of this.

[@marionjohnson8596]

It’s OK to be angry. We have to process all that anger, really feel it and be pissed for as long as it takes. We have to sit with the reality that we were intentionally deceived, we were groomed to stay small. Be mad!!! mindfulmatriarchcoaching

[@janeagreene2849]

THANK YOU for having these women here, speaking, sharing and affirming what SO many of us experienced and are experiencing in and out of the church. MORE OF THIS PLEASE! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@reneenolan3163]

My husband is so at odds with me about the church. There is no talking about all this. My fear is my reality will be, he will not choose me!

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

😭

[@TheSaintelias]

I am so sorry. As someone who also faced this. Take it slow. Good luck

[@TalismanianDevil]

Think about whether YOU will choose him instead. 😊

[@jacoblewis2961]

Then he's not worthy of you...

[@susanhiggs6873]

I know how not being chosen feels. I spoke up to my father about how the "girls" in our family are never chosen to give a prayer. My father's response was more of a reaction. He just stared at me with his mouth open. Other things happened on a patriarchy level, and I left. My father died wishing we would visit him. Waiting till your dying is too little to late.

[@KBtx23]

I don't know if anyone has thought of this, but the bravery of Mormon women coming forward probably has given women in other denominations a lot to think about. It has me. The current thought that came to me is that it's probably a good thing my father wasn't into religion like my mother was. Having one super religious parent screwed up me & my siblings enough. I'm 70.

[@jaynine]

Excellent comment. They speak for all women in highly patriarchal cultures.

[@iamjustsaying1]

The 1st couple of hours seemed to be reminiscent of meetings with TBM LDS women leaders. They enjoyed serving in RS and loved the sisters. But, when John started up the rapid-fire questions in that last hour, that's when it got real, and the questions elicited the other side....the heartbreak, disillusionment, and loss. Well done, Margi and John, and the women who courageously spoke their truth.

[@isabel_hendrix]

3:15:21 “Brother Joseph is not looking so good.” Loll this made me chuckle 😂😂🙏 Loved this discussion SO MUCH! Amazing voices.

[@SunsetChaser308]

Such a fantastic panel. Loved hearing all of their different points of view and how their experiences impacted them. Thank you ladies for your bravery in speaking up.

[@Cocoon68]

Love the thoughts of these beautiful women on here! I’ve been truly inspired by their vulnerability and truth. The one who spoke about the Mormon glasses described my exact feelings! The world was opened up to my view and expanded it so much!

[@katebloomburg1896]

How can the church ask for this calling (RSP) when the individuals they’re asking this of are in the foundational/prime years of their greatest calling: motherhood itself. It’s such a cruel ask, not a direct one but ultimately the reality, that to serve as a RSP, automatically your own family has to be downgraded. Especially when the lesson plans being taught say that motherhood IS your life’s purpose and the “greatest calling” of all for women? The teachings versus reality theme of this panel was so insightful. This is truly my favorite interview of all the Mormon Stories I’ve seen this far!! I’m blown away with how respectful, this conversation was. I don’t think I could have been as constructive and objective as these panelists. I wish I had such incredible women in my life. I’ve got to get my hands on the communication book mentioned! Margy did an OUTSTANDING job leading this conversation, and John is a masterclass in finding the moments to encourage elaboration when things are spoken abstractly. So many great moderator moments in this! Dignity! That’s what Mormon Stories has provided. Great work on this interview in particular - thank you to all who created such an amazing dialogue!

[@tracygrist9550]

Yes! Well said’

[@Brynn-tx3rb]

"I have been worthy all along. There is nothing i can do that would make me unworthy in the eyes of a loving universe" ❤

[@victoriaoliver9958]

57:00 in when you talked about women being chosen rather than doing the choosing...A light bulb went off in my head. I resonate so much as an exvangelical woman who was in leadership positions. I was wanted but never fully.

[@yeshalloween]

The fact that these and all the insightful, powerful, thoughtful, compassionate, intelligent women have been kept from reaching their full potential within the church is proof that it’s not lead by God. What a loss to the church that we we’ve never been fully allowed the ability to perform to the level we’re capable of.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

💯

[@mellisagreen7801]

I have always hated relief society. I will never let anyone tell me what makes me good. You don't get to dictate to me what I should do with my life.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

I always found it to be desperately boring.

[@Mp162]

Agree! I felt like RS was for those who didn’t want to teach or be w/kids on Sundays, which was 75% of them. They want others to do the serving and they just want to come and partake of what others spend so much time, money and resources to plan and carry out activities for them.

[@paulajaneabel5205]

This is the best I've seen Margi: leading. Insightful. Evoking great conversations.

[@thoughtsbeforesleep]

"we have ongoing revelation, because you guys keep finding stuff out" - this is such a brilliant quote, I'm definitely stealing this!

[@marionjohnson8596]

You’re welcome 😂

[@CalypsoMom]

Losing time with Husband. Sat alone 12 years as he served callings in stake and ward. Not to mention the many week nights and most weekends I was solo Mom because of same callings that took him away. 😢

[@Mp162]

Same! Totally agree with you! Marriage and family suffers!

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

😭

[@TalismanianDevil]

Most Mormon kids don’t have either parent around. It’s awesome your kids had their Mom there for them. 💖

[@ATebbs1]

I feel this! Our marriage suffered greatly!!

[@TalismanianDevil]

@@ATebbs1 Marriage is God’s most sacred union. Anything that destroys it is evil.

[@sherrypveful]

What remarkable women and hosts. I love each of you. Such a profound four hours spent together. Thank you. ✨💫🌟

[@lauriehester357]

Asking someone who lost their child to tell you about them is everything. ❤️ My 24 year old son died almost 2 years ago and I never talk about him. No one ever asks about him. 😔

[@kimberlythomas4373]

People have no clue who have never been through anything similar. It’s so important to have their memories carry on. I’m sorry you’ve experienced that.

[@45Thesecret]

I’m so sorry😢

[@UpwardChanging]

More than anything else, I believe the love for others that these ladies describe is what we should aim to feel and then act upon in life. Love for ourselves and others. That doesn’t mean we should allow others to abuse that love. Love’s energy and high vibrational. Hate and despair are low vibrational. Rather than focus on each task I have to complete to be a member of a religion, I focus on LOVE. I consider myself being spiritual, not religious.

[@paulajaneabel5205]

I try to be both spiritual and religious. (Nevermo). I love ❤️ the focus on love and mutual support in these stories. What a church should be; albeit with the load shared more broadly. And minus the patriarchy of course😂!

[@erinrobinson6436]

Oh, my gosh, I have been dying for this panel. I was never in a leadership calling so had no idea of the inner workings or politics. Amazing peek behind the curtain. Thank you all.

[@aushabock288]

This is such a special and tender episode. It brought tears to my eyes to hear of their experiences. Truely such a spiritual and fulfilling episode, and a delight to have heard the words of such admirable women 💕 Thank you to everyone who took part!

[@CathySerra]

I left the church during Covid. My husband went through a terrible time with our Bishop. Later he was diagnosed with Front to Lobal dementia. His behavior was the problem. We all suffered because of the Bishop and his lack of compassion.

[@brindmusicnerd]

So sorry to hear that 😢

[@user-hx2jf1ie7w]

There are NO words for how much I loved this episode. It has been 41 years since I was a 28 year old relief society president. I haven’t really thought about it in any detail in decades. I cannot believe how many thoughts, feelings and experiences this brought up. I was right back there. But in a good way. Because of the honesty of these women, I remembered the good things as well as the bad or hurtful. I realize that it was probably the beginning of my sense of compassion coming to the forefront of a lot of my thoughts. And so many of their experiences in the calling I related to so much. But the overall message to women of “stay in your lane and be quiet” really was what started there and built up in me over the years. Thank you beautiful women for being vulnerable and sharing your stories.

[@jamieohare5096]

RS has to be tough these days with people leaving in droves, former trad wives on TikTok talking about their LDS husbands abandoning them with no resources, and stories like Ruby Franke, Jodi Hildebrandt, and Lori Vallow going off the deep end.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

💯

[@chandralaframboise963]

I doubt any of that is getting to the chapel Mormons out here in the Canadian mission field. When I was TBM, I knew NOTHING about anything going on in the Mormon world, so much is hidden.

[@sdarling6518]

@@chandralaframboise963 I was thinking the EXACT same thing!

[@user-oj9qz5mf4e]

I was the Relief Society president in my ward. I texted my bishop when I decided that I was done with the church. This was my text to him. "I told you when I came for tithing settlement that I believed in the gospel of Jesus Christ. I love the members in our ward and some of them have very tender hearts so I would prefer to not rock their boat. My husband and I are just trying to continue to love and serve others. So please don't take this wrong Bishop, but I think that it would be best if you didn't send anyone to minister to us. Brother blank and I have a conflict of interest with me being the manager of the complex he lives in. I would prefer that we wouldn't be a topic in ward counsel either. Let my husband and I be your friends no matter what. We would prefer you came to us if you want to talk, even if we all don't agree on things about the church. I have been praying for all of us. I just don't want the rest of the ward to shun us or feel uncomfortable around us. We already have certain family members doing the same. They haven't shown us Christ like love at all. I am not the type of person to follow someone/something blindly. But I have for the last 51 years of membership. I am making the changes that I feel morally and ethically I need to. We will continue to support our family and friends in their choices without being pushy. Thanks" I knew how ward counsel works and I didn't want to be their topic of concern or gossip. I also had my heart open to the world too after I left.

[@bargeiger50]

Good for you, I wish you much happiness and freedom to live your life the way you choose.

[@PARebecca]

What a great panel and discussion, deconstructing the myths of Mormonism. Pulling back the curtain can be quite revealing...

[@juliejohnson8364]

I loved this episode I felt compassion for each woman. What beautiful women they are. Recently discovered the church is wrong I feel so happy and elevated since leaving. The church is so up themselves and better than anyone else it makes me sick to my stomach you don’t realise this until you step away. Great talk. Thank you x

[@azlizzie]

The breathy femininity of the voices always gets me. I'm used to loud, rambunctious women. I feel so bad that some of the loudness and excitement is bred out of these women to be calm and quiet and complacent.

[@ATebbs1]

Agreed. I had a hard time listening to the women speak in general conference because of their breathy “sweet” voices. I never felt like I was like them, but that is what everyone wanted the women to be like and I just couldn’t.

[@jillhughes9009]

I think a huge point to be made is that no one should accept that kind of heavy responsibility type calling if it's not right for them at the time

[@kimberlythomas4373]

ALL of these women are some of the coolest! speaking as an active member of the church, I wish they were my friends. It’d make attending so much more enjoyable.

[@sadiecosmos7512]

“He doesn’t call the qualified, he qualifies the called” is just a poetic excuse for not providing adequate training

[@nancyleejorgenson9523]

Wow what a great group of women!

[@oddcheese6384]

For them to at any point in the future say, “You’re equal now!” First, they have to admit that we haven’t been equal in the past.

[@JessicaBrown-cf2bm]

I was called as primary president at 34 weeks pregnant with my third and a husband who worked nights. Had baby at 35 weeks, back at church next Sunday to be called and set apart with 5lb baby home with my mom. Just get it done.

[@brendkillpack3357]

I'm sorry you went through that. I hope you are in a better situation now. I was a RS PRESIDENT when I read the CES Letter and the gospel topics essays that are on the LDS church site. I sent my temple recommend to Church headquarters and asked for my membership to be removed. Best thing I ever did. I am in a better place now.

[@Mp162]

You should have taken 3 months off of church callings!

[@shirleybleazard8049]

I did learn to say no, I am 67 so it took a while. I am a current member.

[@shirleybleazard8049]

Law school takes a very focused person and you just have to do that. There’s no other choice if you want to graduate that is what Law school is. You were terribly over stressed, it may not have been the best time to call you. Do you look back on it and wonder how you did it? You were probably raising your kids by yourself if your husband was in law school and working. It sounds like you did an awesome job. But what a difficult position to be in.

[@shirleybleazard8049]

@@Mp162should have not went from one President to another President. Perhaps this space branch or ward was very small.

[@melissar2943]

When I had my son he went into the NICU. The relief society brought us meals for 3 days and we didn't eat them because I was with him in the hospital. Then I was literally told "That's all you get." When we needed the meals was when we brought him home. Its true that usually the relief society is about charity but all too often it feels like women just checking off boxes.

[@susanwilliams70]

When you finally let go of certainty, you feel not only free but trust/faith in life & living! Love each of you sharing your stories!

[@user-og2wt3le4j]

There is another concern and possible topic that comes up in meetings at the stake and ward level. Church attendance is a problem. Many strong members of the past no longer come to church yet remain in good standing on the rolls. Many even have temple recommends. Some wards have 700 members on the rolls, yet barely get 100 people on a Sunday. So where are the rest? I suspect this could be a topic for a panel of members of the church who just no longer attend for various reasons.

[@cyasmiles4613]

I remember that member numbers helped to get bigger chapels. I'm sure that sacrament numbers were one, but overall membership numbers play a part too. Inactive members are still numbers reported as church membership. How those numbers play out in the church besides bragging rights, I don't know.

[@Chris-pv9ks]

Another excellent episode. Thanks John and Margi and the panel. Love you all.

[@markhayward7411]

Margie is an excellent moderator!

[@MapleLeafsGirl77]

Feeling Mary's story...the pandemic did it in for us. Hubby and I had just finished the temple classes end of 2019 and were going to be sealed...I had gotten my letter for the cancelation of my sealing to my toxic ex of 20+ years (best thing that came from the temple class 🎉😅) and then the plandemic hit...and real quick we were done.

[@michealcobia7869]

This is much more culturally conservative issues than Mormonism. Particularly with women, although some men are affected by it. I ratted out a lot of people in my ward who needed assistance who did not come forward and ask. The guilt shame perfectionism of the culture and the religion causes, this issue and the shame. The reason one of you does not like it is because of the shame. Why can’t humankind just be honest with each other and help each other

[@shanejensen8484]

that’s called pride. And it affects every walk of life. No one likes others to know of their failures and shortcomings. It’s not just in this church.

[@wendigibbs1966]

I would so love to see one of these panels around the Young Women's program. It was being called to teach in YW as Laurel Advisor that finally broke me. I couldn't teach those amazing young women the toxic lessons of the church and still look at myself in the mirror. PS the bare shoulders in this video make me ridiculously happy!

[@bargeiger50]

I can relate to what they said about talking about people. I left the church 5 years ago, and I know what I left people were talking about me. And to top that if they saw me in public they avoided me like the plague.

[@tinamarie9772]

My husband mentioned the same situation happened to him after we stopped attending. Our branch president looked right at him and nothing. Mind you, he had called my husband to lead the young men and we were a very very small branch so he couldn't claim not to know my husband.

[@julieprince5538]

What Beautiful Women ❤ Thank you All for having the courage to share your story and Truth!

[@SatansRoerhat]

So much fun with all of these awesome women taking up space! 🎉 I expected this panel to be powerful, but I'm still blown away.

[@rebuildingmylife400]

I feel a loss of choice. For 55 years.

[@Wren402]

I love these panels. These women are so brave, wise, and relatable. I watched the bishops panel too. Both were great! Thank you! Keep up the great work.

[@OneMore-bq9kb]

I love these panels. It's like the exit interviews the Church should be doing, but won't for whateve reason. I can't wait for the RM panel.

[@sherryg1838]

I really enjoyed this, hearing the women’s experiences and stories. I was raised in the Church of Christ, and could somewhat relate, it brought back some memories. It also had a patriarchal leadership with men in charge. I’ve seen and experienced male leaders not talking privately to women heading a ministry, but blind siding them in a public meeting. I think many men don’t handle confrontations well, and make things worse by avoidance. Things are out of balance without women contributing to leadership roles.

[@robbinnelson2096]

We are useful until we weren’t. We looked the part until we didn’t. Once I came into the knowledge of where the control of the church came into my life and they knew I knew I was no longer treated the same.

[@shirleybleazard8049]

My heart ached for the speaker today. I listened to him on my way to SLC, I was in tears when I had to stop the podcast and go see my Doctor.

[@LisaFerguson-lw8il]

I hate how they say "The Lord wants you to", instead of I want you to.

[@pamelagraham5515]

While serving in the Gospel I only honored the men who deserved to be honored. My husband was not active and chose not to honor his preisthood. But he honored me. I never felt less than his equal. As a woman in the gospel I stood tall and stood my ground. I never wanted or felt I needed the priesthood. I could call on the power of Jesus Christ to help me in situations when I didn't have someone with the priesthood to call upon for a priesthood blessing. I have prayed over a sick child and a sick husband to the point of asking father to take him home if he could not get well. He passed away the next morning from a blood clot. I have not been active for over 20 years. All 5 of my sons have left the church. I have always believed in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints according to Pam Graham. I cannot be a part of the lies about the history of the church. My ancestors were brain washed for generations. Things needs to change. Church leaders need to tell all with love and sincere appologies. They are only human. We all make mistakes. Tell the damn truth! I love my LBGTQ+ and all my family members more than the church. My Family Is Forever no matter what!

[@shawnasutherland8160]

Such brave, amazing and strong women. Thank you all for sharing your truth. ❤️❤️

[@maysagrassi5493]

I thought I was the only crazy non-Mormon (born and raised catholic, but not active anymore) that was obsessed with the Mormon church. I just don’t get it how people believe that their prophet was a guy that found some golden plates in NY (?) I think all of this is just fascinating. I love your podcast! Love from Brazil ❤🇧🇷

[@bombadillo2]

Congratulations morm stories on epi 1900!!!! A milestone and an even bigger milestone approaching soon. Throw a gala for 2000!

[@elvadrum4965]

Families are going hungry and the church expects full tithing.

[@CLWettstein22]

That's part of why I left

[@tinamarie9772]

This was part of the many reasons I just couldn't keep going. Pile on everything else and it just sours my stomach.

[@jesslakin5858]

This is so beautiful! Best relief society meeting I’ve ever been to!

[@LATLSpeaks]

Fantastic discussion! I can relate to all of this!

[@user-og2wt3le4j]

Another topic. I have been in stake meetings recently where the leaders acknowledge and stated the 15 know as well that 86% of the current youth ages 12-18 will be out of the church by age 25. It is one of the most pressing things talked about in meetings these days. I would like to hear from youth recently left why they did so. What was it about the church they had problems with?

[@BenSwagnerd]

I'm willing to bet LGBTQIA+ policies, treatment of Black folks/People of Color, and gender inequality will be high on most of their lists.

[@shoepanda]

Great conversations with everyone. I really appreciate being able to hear from women leaders and hope there will be more opportunities like this. I also really like that Shelly says "truth crisis" instead of "faith crisis". We didn't have a faith crisis, we didn't fall away, we're not apostates. I get that we say these things almost ironically because of the way they were used in the church to keep people in line, but it makes it sound like the fault is ours. We learned the truth and we CHOSE to leave. It's not like we tripped and felt out of the church. So calling it a truth crisis feels more accurate to me.

[@marionjohnson8596]

Absolutely! It was a trust and truth crisis.

[@frauannmarie3194]

Amen, I never had a faith crisis, but a truth crisis for sure, but the Lord brought me through and showed me the TRUTH, and it only comes from Him through the Holy Spirit!!!

[@pamelatd]

The part where they talk about being moral for the reward or out of fear really resonated with me. Thank you!

[@melissajones2000]

Oh my gosh! More of this! I was in a few presidencies and this my experience entirely. I have / had so much love for the sisters and stayed in the church for so long because I was trying to change things in my own space. Ultimately the truth claims being false were the reason I lost any desire to participate. But I feel so much for the sisters still there who have no idea what the church actually is. Lots of love to these sisters for coming on here and to the whole Mormon Stories team. ❤

[@californiajones6227]

Wow 😮 How can this be of God ????

[@SamanthaCliftArt]

I’m a never Moron, brought up CoE Christian, but this channel is so fascinating and I’m seeing some similarities. These women are amazing and I’m relating so much! Thank you ❤

[@Mp162]

The same 10-15 couples in the ward do 95% of all the work in a ward. The couples serve in presidencies at the same time! All. The. Time.! Sundays were the busiest days of the week! My husband was in 2 Bishoprics, when I served as 1st C in PP, and as Bishop I was 1st C in YWP. So much time away from our immediate family and not being able to go to family events or vacations cause of church callings!

[@jimcowens]

I respect the one panelist who's still an observant LDS member for their willingness to participate in this episode. Hopefully their search for truth will continue.