"LDS SHUFFLE" - The Most Broken Mechanic For INFINITE FREE LEGENDARIES | 41 | Factorio SPACE AGE

[@TrevorSmithy]

Considering the devs added the 300% limit to productivity, I think they fully expected shenanigans like this to be possible.

[@cthulhu8977]

No need to patch it out; not really broken. The investment in research and infrastructure is immense for EACH resource you want to make legendary. He acts like the asteroid coal ship is broken... but try and make that BP. There is half a megabase worth resources JUST in modules for that ship. Is awesome to see what can be done tho; thank you Nilaus!

[@mrandersen6872]

Right? This is very endgame stuff. It might even be intentional game design for getting legendary stuff. It is extremely powerful, but he's on episode 41 of the series, its not like this is something you can do to skip the game. It will not work without massive investment as you said.

[@MrClewsy1988]

I disagree. This really should be patched out. For those players that plan to play the game on after game completion. This basicaly renders all other quality builds obsolete. Why bother upscaling and recycling, when you can just build the majority of items strait at legendary from unlimited base legendary materials. Imo if this stays, legendary is not going to feel legendary at all. As getting to stage of building a ship to farm legendary coal is inevitable if you play the game long enough, whether it takes you 50 hours or 200, you will get there.

[@mrandersen6872]

@MrClewsy1988 that is a fair point, but if you want the challenge, you can just chose not to build the platform. Its a singleplayer game, you're only competing against yourself.

[@wilmer4421]

no matter how high the investment cost now you have infinite legendary resources. for those of us who want to play after the point where you can make this investment the game just becomes trivial

[@luuuk8682]

@@wilmer4421 Just don't do it then?

[@starfire8240]

It won't be patched out. The reason that the productivity cap is exactly 300% is for this reason. If it were greater than 300% then this loop would result in a net gain of materials (provided recyclers remain at 25% return). This is the intended end-game result IMO.

[@JarPlace]

but is it really broken? maybe by the end-game it should be all legendary, if you are willing to make all the required infrastructure... it becomes all legendary everything, easily by end-game?

[@dwightk.schrute8696]

yup, especially given how UPS heavy the game gets in the endgame even without megabasing.

[@Tomiisomaa]

this is basically duping

[@CarlSaganRul3z]

@@Tomiisomaa After requiring a couple million science, probably a few hours of gambling to get the starter modules/infrastructure to do it, including probably hundreds of rocket launches building the farming platforms. This is well beyond what anyone would need to beat the game. Who cares? Let people who want to go this far have fun. It isn't a competitive game :D

[@Akeruyri]

​@@TomiisomaaNot exactly? Productivity is a baseline mechanic in the game which is duping, that the devs have clearly been ok with for years now. This is a quality bypass rather than duping as the devs didn't implement a quality fluid system. The balance for this is to remove the guarantee for legendary out of fluid involved crafts or do have a fluid refinement system that assigns a purity % of the fluid that correlates with quality tiers, and then you have to feed your foundries with a certain % threshold of purity to guarantee the quality output

[@Tomiisomaa]

@@Akeruyri and what is this game about? building a factory, then making it bigger and bigger. With this, you wont need to. the factory is finally finished :)

[@nullcypher]

You can do the same with cast concrete. Use legendary calcite with lava to get molten iron and legendary stone, which you can use to make legendary bricks that can then be used to make legendary concrete which can be recycled into legendary iron ore and bricks.

[@ingiford175]

Yep, then he can change his iron ore ship to a calcite ship and have 2 calcite ships

[@Orberror404]

Is this not worse because the advantage of the LDS cycling is that it is essentially free with sufficient plastic productivity? But with casted concrete, you still need to get additional stone bricks (via calcite) because there is no stone productivity upgrade?

[@c2bRa]

Another way would be to cast pipes, you drop everything except the legendary ones, get legendary iron back, when you recycle the legendary underground pipes and do the pipes back in the production... :) i have to test it... Ah no productivity....

[@MaxMustermann-om2ji]

He will use molten copper. Iron is 1 calcite to 10 stone. Coper is 1 to 15 :) With that stone you can build everything as legendary

[@walter2945]

11:45, why are you still saying 1 coal becomes 3.2 steel? you just explained that it keeps running without adding more coal. you now produce steel by tossing copper plate into the lava pool (when copper backs up)

[@jesusismful]

If the devs didn't intend for this to be the way to end-game legendary items, I'd be shocked.

[@77Playmaker]

Factorio ended to be balanced the exact time Space Age was released, and it's perfect as it is. Change my mind.

[@KekkusMaximus]

Factorio was never balanced. With a functionally unlimited amount of space and resources the only real limit towards production was processing power and time. Space age simply speeded up the process, nothing more nothing less.

[@pedroalvarezgarcia5776]

You have used quality modules for the recyclers of legendary LDS. It is already legendary. Put other nice modules in there :D

[@XconeArtist]

@@pedroalvarezgarcia5776 that was only the POC build. The real build later in the vid didn't have those.

[@YouTubestopsharingmyrealname]

Oh .. now i get it. The lava really breaks things

[@MrSequeezey]

I’m sad you skipped the design process of the LDS recycler. It’s a brand new concept (cycling feeder plastic). So much of Factorio is solved or just a stamp of “x inputs, y output” it’s not very often we get to be a part of a brand new type of production.

[@XconeArtist]

I am flabberghasted. Until yesterday I had no idea this was possible. And I totally love it! I suppose they could cap productivity at 290 to have a least a little bit of input going. But given the amount of time and effort to get to this point, I think it's just a really neat reward to keep it this way. I was screaming at the quality modules in the POC build, glad to see they didnt make it in the final build. As for your plan with legendary calcite. Looking in factoriopedia it's either legendary cliff explosives, or legendary shells. But no clue why that would be awesome apart from a flex. So it has to be the legendary stone you get out of foundries when consuming lava? But then what? Legendary foundations? Really curious to see where that's heading!

[@Olden_son]

From response of @nullcypher: "You can do the same with cast concrete. Use legendary calcite with lava to get molten iron and legendary stone, which you can use to make legendary bricks that can then be used to make legendary concrete which can be recycled into legendary iron ore and bricks." Legendary concrete is made for legendary bricks and molten iron

[@anthonymcquinn7323]

With legendary calcite -> legendary stone bricks we're so close to making a full Nauvis legendary science build. Only missing legendary stone for prod science packs and I'm not seeing a way to get it reliably. That's prob not worth it anyway. Edit: Nvm it's legendary calcite -> legendary stone so we do have everything needed. Should be able to make a legendary mall now for chem plants, refineries, inserters, assemblers, pumpjacks....Everything from Nauvis straight to legendary with no upcycling.

[@CarlSaganRul3z]

If they really wanted to "fix" it..... Basically put a pollution mechanic back on Volcans. Put some kind of threshold where once production reaches a certain point, your base emits seismic waves that attract huge (legendary?) demolishers that want to stop all the loud machines ^>^. Respect the shai-hulud! Or, ya know, let a non-competitive (mostly)singleplayer game have a breaking point with a hundred+ hours of playtime and let modders deal with making things more difficult. Worked for Skyrim.

[@SangreNL]

No need to fix it i think? it takes many many hours to get to this point, and it gives a nice goal to aim for

[@Jackpkmn]

I'm not sure it's going to be patched out. Instead they capped productivity at 300%. Because that's the point where you break even, if you could get to 310% you could profit on plastic recycling LDS.

[@chimmy_jim]

Yeah, soon as I saw yesterday's video I had the idea. I have to retract my comment from yesterday about a fix to this and +1 to: is it really broken. Why would they include the researches to get huge production bonuses if they didn't want those items to become ridiculously cheap in late-endgame. It feels as through the late-endgame is legendary everything. Great series, thanks!

[@xAndyyyZ]

Personally I just built my legendary sutff using the blue chip upcycler with +300% prod

[@ztirom2267]

Seeing the title i was like "oh no" But as soon as you placed the cryo plant i knew it was over

[@syriuszb8611]

It's hard to me imagine how can they patch it without breaking at least one new feature. Unless they start considering liquid quality, the only way they can fix it is to remove foundry special recipes, which would suck, or nerf productivity, which would suck. Even blocking quality from recycling asteroids will make it harder to get, but the LDS loop will always be there. Maybe I'm missing obvious solution here?

[@jonathanrichards593]

You could remove quality from elements (C, S, Fe, Ho, etc) entirely. That would be more scientific, and kinda sad.

[@pepperbox-ic3oo]

they could make LDS and processing units self recycling

Quality for liquids seems like an obvious fix to this. Not sure how hard that is to implement, but it's pretty much the same consideration as separate liquids, so..

[@lolkingftw4804]

they could make it so that foundry and assembler lds recipes dont make the same entity, so when xou recycle a foundry lds you only get the plastic out, but the asembler ones still spit out all 3. but this is so insanely end game that this is the least of what you deserve at this stage of the game

[@syriuszb8611]

@@lolkingftw4804 Once they said in FFF that they don't want to make different recipes making same thing because you cannot handle recycling it. But then I thought about different solution you reminded me of- probabilistic recycling. Game would count how many items were produced by each recipe, probably per planet, and then when recycled it could recycle by probability. You could teleport items with that, so you should count it per planet and maybe handle transfer of items between planets.

[@AndrewConnolly-c9k]

17:16 I love this Frankenstein's monster of a build, if's like if a Vulcanus and Fulgora blueprint had a baby

[@pankaktus7772]

10:54 I dont want for this to be fixes it is fun way of getting materials and it should stay

[@dumaskhan]

I don't like the thinking that because something is too good it should be nerfed. especially in a single player game where you have a choice to use a feature or not.

[@pankaktus7772]

@@dumaskhan this !

[@drgonzolalalala]

absolutely. I mean this only works well suuper late game and by that point you u have earned to break the game a little

[@EvGamerBETA]

Look at this dude making a bus of legendary items. An absolute legend

[@xnooknooknook]

Lava refining for high quality lava would be a interesting way to make the cost a little more realistic for that stage of the game. Thats the only step that seems too easy.

[@jaspervaneck3258]

Honestly, they should probably add some quality modifers to recipes. You'd then apply that to asteroid conversion, LDS, and other recipes that REALLY should not be producing legendary resources in quantity.

[@hausverbot8308]

why waste quality modules on recyclers if they cant upcycle legendary??

[@scourge213]

I kind of don't get why you needed the coal, though. With 300% productivity, you consume 5 plastic to output 4 LDS, which returns 1 plastic and a 25% chance for another one. I.e. on average you get back all 5 plastic. You only need the starting plastic and an additional handful to compensate for bad luck. You can get that legendary plastic from the red or blue circuit farms for almost no cost.

[@BoomWolf-ny4zs]

I dont see a need to fix this? by the point you have this online, you are way past the point of any challenge in the game sans "number go up" You've gotten every research, have basically infinite sized mines you can easily grab, and can honestly get legendary whatever by simply putting quality modules and tossing any failed upgrade to the lava and you still wont have a problem. Yea, you can get anything you want legendary. You just need to first beat the game many times over.

[@hmgirlpopuri5819]

I'm really curious about the calcite, too. The only thing I can think of off hand is using the calcite to craft legendary molten iron or copper and just dumping the iron/copper to get the legendary stone byproduct as your end goal.

[@jaspervaneck3258]

You'll get legendayr stone, liquids have no quality, however.

[@Sworn973]

I don't think it is broken, you are working with Legendary item, with very high productivity research. Takes a lot to get there, which at that point its irrelevant, would be broken if it was like possible to do this with rare or uncommon items with barely any producitiviry

[@melind82]

I assume they knew there were positive feedback loops. In FFF they talked about how it would become positive with any productivity over 300% and still they added a bunch of new endless research that allow exactly that.

[@bad_manbot]

the research is endless the the productivity stops at 300% no matter what you do.

[@angeldude101]

The 300% cap is specifically meant to prevent positive loops and make it so the best possibility is neutral. That said, alternate recipes that recycle to a superset of their solid ingredients let you make net positive loops anyways. The only two recipes I'm aware of that have this are casting low density structure, and rocket fuel from ammonia (and legendary rocket or solid fuel isn't really that useful all things considered).

[@SanderBuruma]

With 300% productivity you can get 500 iron ore per metal asteroid chunk

[@BinarySecond]

So that's it; that's anything legendary you could ever want really. Damn.

[@theokurpierz]

Hold up I gotta finish the dosh video first

[@crightbrayons8416]

Oh been waiting for his monotone frustrated voice to release a video.

[@FabriceNormandin95]

Why do you have quality modules in the recycler if the input is already legendary quality?

[@amon_69]

recyclers go brrrrrrr 22:00

[@manelmv97]

my jaw droppes cause of the productivity you get from legendary stuff.. IS INSANNNNEEE!! 1 coal 8 bars of plastic.. jezus f christ!!! i need to play it

[@grrr111222111]

I guess he just reflexively put quality modules in the recycler?

[@christopherschroeder4096]

Mowteng? Dewalt? Beratna!

[@agabranicka947]

and thats very good episode :)

[@flowless899]

amazing episode

[@texnoti]

Bästa cliffhangern ever :-)

[@KekkusMaximus]

Can't you achieve the same result by directly casting free copper and steel from lava and then upcycle it with quality moduled recyclers?

[@LosLangkos]

I dont get the "Do it now, because they will patch it , its too good". I dont see anyhting broken nor OP. More like clickbait: "We brake the game!!!!!1111oneeleven" (...when the game is already finished and everything is researched). I guess "superlateendgame-mechanic for legendary stuff" doesnt net the same amount of viewers like the "tweaked" title. Dissappointed.

[@Zimmaster]

Would a good patch for it be just making it plastic negative? Meaning say it requires 24 Plastic to make and only recycles to 5 with 300% equating to 20 Plastic, and therefore needs supplemental plastic and coal? The amounts could be tweaked, I just used 24 and 20 to demonstrate the net negative principle.

[@Alex-xv6me]

If it's patched, I imagine the lds recipe will get moved from the foundry to the EM plant

[@Davidlavieri]

Makes no sense, in terms of the electric theme

[@ComplexConcept]

How do you get legendary coal? Just by using a legendary miner, you get 100% legendary coal output, or do you put quality modules in a drill and filter out the legendary coal?

[@StormCrow42]

Last episode was space platforms doing upcycling on asteroid chunks to create legendary chunks which create legendary carbon and sulfur to convert to legendary coal.

[@Iliurgul]

Now do legendary science production!

[@Djones314]

sorry if i missed it, but isn't the the recycler doing LDS supposed to have prod modules?

[@walid2875]

can't add productivity modules to recyclers

[@Djones314]

@@walid2875 ah ok

[@josemachado7830]

That's an amazing ship.

[@SANSK-nz3tj]

The Pandora's vault has been open

[@arielapp9469]

am I not understanding something about the lds shuffle? you only need the coal to jump start it, once you have enough plastic coming back, it feeds itself.

[@M_1024]

Yes, you don't need any coal incoming, unless you want to use the LDS itself

[@syriuszb8611]

Yes, but you also want some legendary LDS and some legendary plastic anyway.

[@valentinfelix1708]

that also needs max productivity (+300%) on the machine making lds, but yes.

[@K-o-R]

Is a legendary rocket a thing? Othereise what sorts of things would legendary LDSs be useful for?

[@thepatrickcrab]

Armor and equipment

[@Pablitto000]

Can you go for legendary armor next?

[@jonathanrichards593]

Reposting from the last video: As a chemist, I have a problem with "legendary elements". Sulphur is sulphur wherever you find it in the universe (and however you spell it, btw), and the same for carbon, iron, copper and holmium. I can cope with the concept of Legendary Steel - it's some fantastic alloy not yet invented, and legendary machines and intermediates, but elements are by definition elementary. As a Factorio player, however, this is just wonderful!

[@dasterflomaster2217]

Surely, as a chemist, you're are familiar with 95%, 99%, 99.999% purities and occasional importance of those values?

[@lochnerflorian]

Couldn’t you argue it’s something like purity of the material?

[@thepatrickcrab]

I just think of it as purity

[@angeldude101]

Quality is really an abstraction for a variety of different concepts, from purity of raw materials, to tolerance of machined parts and electronics.

[@korsaircandyman13]

Why are you using quality modules on the recyclers? Shouldn't you be using productivity?

[@thepatrickcrab]

Can’t put productivity on recyclers

[@muvispercal]

the only end game i know is legendary.

[@wurst1284]

How would you "patch this out"? Remove foundries? Legendary fluids?

[@JasonAWilliams-IS]

by not allowing LDS productivity to reach 300%

[@kypdurron]

Just raise the plastic amount for the foundry LDS recipe... really that's nothing hard to nerf ! (recycler use the Assemblers LDS recipe to retrieve raw materials)

[@mrandersen6872]

can you also get legendary iron plates from recycling steel?

[@DjId3Nt]

no. recycling does not undo smelting or chemical reactions. besides he already has legendary iron ore to make the plates so it would be redundant if so.

[@mrandersen6872]

@DjId3Nt ah ok!

[@thomasgraewe3122]

why is he inserting quality in the recycler tho?

[@jonathanrichards593]

17:34 "Ungodly amount of time" == 36% of the duration of Plastic Bar Productivity 10 research... always supposing that Nilaus didn't revert to autosaves during the design process!

[@NegatorUK]

Nilaus: I hope they fix this. Also Nilaus: desperately tries to build a big legendary bus before it get nerfed ... ;-p I agree with Nilaus of course...

[@kitesquid]

#53. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Curabitur lacinia ipsum id odio dictum, luctus ornare erat pharetra. Duis venenatis congue dolor ac fringilla. Quisque molestie sollicitudin lectus viverra malesuada. Vivamus at lorem vitae turpis consectetur volutpat. Sed quis feugiat neque. Duis eu feugiat sapien. Nunc placerat ultrices lorem id venenatis. Praesent dignissim diam bibendum tincidunt pharetra. Etiam est sem, pellentesque ac gravida ac, bibendum et libero. Donec vel scelerisque arcu, vitae semper diam. Aenean pellentesque in elit sed aliquet. Donec at maximus dui. Nam pharetra hendrerit erat.

[@elpepe3923]

Petition to leave the "started base" savefile for free (im broke, plsplspls)

[@calbo5944]

I would recommend going back to his base in a book series all those blueprints were free and you can find basically all the blueprints he uses for his base just a year or two older

[@tootall1488]

and these videos are free and all is visible, just look at it and build it...🤔

[@Sim1st3r]

I’ve used the base in a book but it’s a huge pain in the ass at first to change all the rail blocks to the new 2.0 rail system.

[@ZergYinYang]

Lol just pause KZbin, and play the game and enjoy the process 🙂

[@alextopher3141]

If this wasn’t net neutral on plastic I would feel a lot better about this. I’m more than happy turning 1 coal into 100 LDS but I don’t think you should be able to turn 1 LDS into 2 LDS. We should nerf recycling productivity to be proportional to an items researched productivity. I’m sure there’s a balance where you only start nerf after say, 100% so the net productivity of recycling is 50%.

[@jonathanrichards593]

It's the Kovarex process problem writ large: there was no need to mine more than a few trainloads of uranium ore in v1.1 once you'd researched the kovarex process.

[@Anon---]

I dislike every video if no public blueprint

[@kypdurron]

WTF ?! just play the game, solve your logistic yourself it's the point of the game, or just use creative mod and spawn everything at will...

[@tootall1488]

these videos are free and all is visible, just look at it and build it...🤔

[@hayzersolar]

i wish you wasn't so greedy for money and give your bp for free. like other creators who do what you do. i am not smart enough to make my own to this complexity's. can't follow you most of the time you talk and move so fast i have no idea what you are doing or talking about. as of now i am going to unsubscribe and stop watching you for you care only about money.

[@syriuszb8611]

Lol, he spends a lot of time making those videos and those bp. Why do you think you are entitled to his work while you don't even want to put little work to make those bp yourself, copying what he does? I don't pay for bp, but this is ridiculous, he has rent to pay too. You can slow video down if you can't keep up, watch it several times, but if you still can't keep up, you probably missed a lot of prerequisite knowledge that you should relearn in previous episodes.

[@tootall1488]

@@syriuszb8611 Well Said! 👍

[@JasonAWilliams-IS]

I don't know of any other content creators who put out high quality blueprints, other than Nlilaus and JDPlays. Both are only available to patrons.

[@Elearen]

lol You are literally watching his content for free

[@Sim1st3r]

The pause button exists, cope. you can either choose to pay 5 USD per month for bare minimum patreon sub or be an entitled swine.

[@PhạmMinhTúTú-c3f]

Ich bin immer wieder erstaunt über die Fülle an Weisheiten, die in diesem Thread geteilt werden. Es ist, als würde man auf einen Schatz an Wissen stoßen.🍭

[@Pamella-s4d]

Your videos always leave a mark in my heart and mind. Thank you for your creativity and passion!🟥🖼🐦