"Learning to be in the world" Dinner&Talk @NAV with Nora Bateson & Daniel Schmachtenberger HD1080p

In a time when deep change is needed globally, Daniel Schmachtenberger and Nora Bateson are often invited into discussions of how to meet the big problems humanity is facing…
This is a rare opportunity to participate in a conversation between them that reaches into the depth of personal experience on the day-to-day level of growing up, and preparing the next generations for a new world.
Both Daniel and Nora were raised in households that approached intergenerational learning in unorthodox ways. Both are engaged in the question of how profound shifts happen- and learning to be in this rapidly changing world. What does this mean in terms of parenting? Or caring for the elders? Or learning to live together?
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[@imjennim]

One of the most important conversations of our time. Thank you for opening this up for discussion, Nora and Daniel.

[@casey2806]

The thing I find striking about Daniel, Nora, and people who seem to mix in their circles is that when they talk about the state we are in, they can talk about it without the need to blame people. This is so valuable because people will be so much more willing to listen and get on board if we can follow these awesome examples.

[@roundchaos]

Daniel is not the thinker we deserve, but the one we desperately need

[@highroadsinstitute6157]

It's wonderful to see Daniel's live appearances in Sweden. He brings his soul and urgency with him. His at-home and podcast KZbins are wonderful, but getting him and Nate to Norrsken and NAV provided a new context for them both to stretch and adapt. Thank you Nora!

[@jennyduncan11]

Thank you for this discussion. I'm so very grateful this type of conversation is present.

[@GigiAzmy]

Hoping for more Nora + Daniel - it’s watching the balanced masculine and feminine talk. So needed and necessary.

[@brianh5844]

When Daniel is talking about the "hell is other people" aspect of why we isolate into nuclear family structures, I think it's important to recognize that it's not just about the banal, day-to-day difficulties of living with other people. This is certainly an important facet of it. Community, especially navigating the inevitable conflicts that arise, is hard. However, what seems to be part of this aversion to community is a fear we have, so deeply engrained, about what can happen when humans get together and connect more deeply. A lot of beautiful things can arise from that, but we also know from both the history and the present some of the other things that can happen. Oppressive in-group/out-group dynamics, abuses of power, fanatical religiosity, war with other groups, cults, enforced conformity, genocide, sexual abuse, and countless other very unpleasant things. So we isolate to stay safe from that. I think it's very important to respect the isolating impulse, what it's trying to teach us, but we can't stop there. We need to also look at what we're missing out on, to acknowledge our loneliness, our lack of connection and meaning as a result of alienated, atomized existence in late capitalist modernity. Another piece of that is that our current civilizational structure conditions us to be more separate, and it does this very intentionally (in an emergent meta-systemic sense of intentionality). The industrial growth machine requires our separation to reproduce itself, and so much of our technology, advertising, media, and products are engineered to capture our attention in ways that disconnect us from others, to meet the needs that we should be getting from other people from their product or platform. Of course, they don't actually meet those needs, and so we need ever more of that product/service/media in an attempt to satisfy us, with increasingly briefer moments of satisfaction.

[@WicksKE]

Beautifully said.

[@__Henry__]

Well framed. I add, out of feeling of novelty, that the culture who is quite and is argued to be over-individualized in disposition is the culture out of which globally utilized "social" and content-referential technologies came. The US. I make this statement not morally but in causal interest. My response to your comment framed to connect more immediately to your comment, this individualization seems somehow dominating or dominant in a way? As (maybe) has been the language of English? Further, maybe globalization in later stages will see more K-strategistic forms come about while in the earlier of its stages (right now, still) r-strategistic forms seem to be ripping through and causing ills, uncomfortable growing pains is maybe a non-misleading framing to posit.

[@jenniferl8714]

Yes, let’s make the driver of the changes we need be our awe and reverence for nature. Pay attention ❤

[@irfanadamm5819]

can truly hear him all all day

[@randybennett2143]

Imagine sitting in a circle where everyone can see everyone. 🙏

[@Deciphering_Life]

1:22:38...... I have waited for SO LONG for Daniel to answer that question... 1:30:40 and 1:46:52, If you have no agency in regards the complexity of what Daniel speaks to, then fundamentally understanding and developing agency around the answer to the question that was given is the way, if we could collectively do that I believe it would give rise to many of the answers we are looking for. Thank you SO much Daniel!

[@berbudy]

Very important segment, thanks

[@iananderson8288]

Daniel is looking like a modern day greek warrior poet. His take on MDMA and the change in logic is spot on

[@annahanschmidt3003]

I really like the interweaving of how their tones and wonderings about the world meet in this conversation. They go beyond the idea of “one up - one down” and meet themselves ( and their work ) in the middle .

[@jonathangoldsmith1888]

Exactly! The way their tones meet is just stunning.

[@packardsonic]

The simplified message is: we need to end the need to earn a living because that is what forces us to sell out our values. We need to talk about this everywhere and raise awareness about the need to meed everyone's needs unconditionally.

[@Dilmahkana]

Haha I'm glad that's what you got from that. But it is only one of the very important "simplified messages" this conversation presented.

[@pedrogorilla483]

Good. Now try spreading that message in the third world.

[@jonathanadamson]

What a gift this conversation is to the world. Thank you.

[@bhavananissima2870]

Aah this. When we talk about "that", we forget how it is held in "this". I loved how Nora and Daniel brought home "that", to the seat of learning, here, as we do how to be.

[@treefrog3349]

The speakers are discussing profound issues at such an intellectual level that their wisdom transcends the awareness of a vast majority of living humans. That, in itself, is even more terrifying.

[@sebastianstraubel7846]

Thanks for uploading this! Wishing more people would listen to Mr Schmachtenberger.

[@quantamara]

ouroboric seeing/sensing the evolving nooshphere into being as we continue to devour our ending...such a momentous yarn...deep gratitude...what an epochally significant time to exist

[@jamesr2936]

very well expressed...

[@squatch545]

This was fantastic, and very interesting. Thanks for posting this.

[@jonathangoldsmith1888]

What a remarkable conversation, the way it moves in and out of zoom, touching into the profoundly personal one moment and then moving out to the macro in another. It’s fascinating to watch the currents and eddies of the discussion move around the transcontextual spaces that Nora and Daniel explore; the connections between who does the dishes to the meta crisis, homeschooling and existential questions, the beauty of life and cows bleeding on the way to the slaughterhouse, what would parrots teach their young and how to talk about ‘difference’ in a world of increasing polarity. The musicality of the conversational dance is so vital and magnificent. 💜

[@SarahVerwei]

Thank you so much dear Nora for sharing this important open dialogue from the heart

[@johnpratt3343]

Great to be part of such a ❤wise discussion

[@williamjmccartan8879]

31 minutes, Daniel just laid out a huge point, we need to keep what we've built, and build on it, we don't have time to start over. 55 minutes Nora creates with language this picture of making room for someone in your heart, almost physical, touching. Thank you both very much Daniel and Nora for sharing how you became who you are and the questions that you still trying to answer at this stage of your lives. Peace

[@craigwillms61]

Fabulous point. Is that not what progress is? How then do we (not me) keep putting "progressives" in power? They do not want to preserve anything, they destroy.

[@__Henry__]

Must engage with what is in order to change it (responding to your noting Daniel's point).

[@williamjmccartan8879]

@@__Henry__ well said, can you encapsulate the first 30 minutes, I've had a really busy day and its not over yet, thank you ahead of time, peace

[@gyurilajos7220]

Comming back to re-listening. Now I understand why home schooling is banned.

[@shamanic_nostalgia]

Great conversation 🍄 McKenna would argue that the older tribal style only became oppressive when shamanic plant technologies were not in use.

[@anyariv]

Daniel is so smart, his response to Nora at 1:05:06 is spot on. I was thinking that same thing the whole time she was reminiscing about how amazing it was to have her dad feel out the household situation to determine who gets to wash the dishes. These things work on small scale and sometimes they don't even work on a small scale at all - just because you think you figured out who the best person would be to wash dishes that night doesn't mean that person would agree. Arguments would ensue, people would be hurt and defensive and some lazy, so that's why you establish rules outside of "feelings" and personal assessments, so that no one would feel singled out or could argue based on biases or emotion. Wednesday is Tommy's day. Period. We need rules like that in society especially the work place. Otherwise it would be chaos. She's too idealistic.

[@JB-yg3ew]

My super basic suggestion to facilitate this big change is start growing your own food and get your neighbors too as well. If/when the transition gets wonky, you won't be dependent on a super fragile system for your daily sustenance.

[@suzychristensen8977]

Thank u for speaking out 😊

[@katherinemccrea4876]

*The part about factory farming as a child and all the feelings that came with it after you did the research. I felt the exact same as a young adult. Daniel probably has the most relatable childhood/teenage thought process of any person I have come across yet.

[@olanilsson6651]

Thank you so much NAV for hosting and for posting this video so soon after the event. What a beautiful dialogue. As a pretty early stage father I am deeply touched by the perspectives shared both on the meta-crises futures level AND the micro level of the home and family. I will be referring and referencing this conversation for a long time to come 🙏🌟

[@TennesseeJed]

This is a great collaboration!

[@unknownadventures6248]

Life changing.

[@stephanforster7186]

One way of thinking about the traditional / conservative side is that it has a deeper understanding for the unconscious evolutionary drivers 29:10

[@polymathpark]

Protect this man

[@Cuyut982]

Nora Bateson's story about homeschooling her children is so heartbreaking. What have we done to our society's children?

[@rdub4nd]

30 sec in... That beard Daniel!! On point my brother!! First intro to Nora. OG with Daniel. Can't wait.

[@robertmichon5448]

His comments on aristocrat tutoring are interesting. It's speculated that one of the reasons ravens are so intelligent is because they spend more longer with adults before leaving the next than other avians. Why would he think this couldn't scale? And does it need to?

[@treefrog3349]

In the 21st Century it has become almost universally obvious that there is only one Earth and that there is nothing remotely like the Earth in the reachable vicinity. THAT indisputable fact, that the simple reality ISN'T an automatic unifying factor, especially when we recognize that humans are knowingly "punching holes in their own life raft", is the most confusing and disheartening aspect of human nature.

[@b-radsadventures6846]

Perfection is the enemy of progress.

[@alaskainstituteforclimatea141]

Breathing this in deeply. The only thing that fails to resonate is Daniel’s subscription to old school assumptions about traditional/Indigenous cultures and limitations to scaling up Democratic processes. Aka, Dawn of Everything, Open access university and emerging Indigenous leaders including Tyson Yunkaporta, Bayo Akomolafe, Vanessa Andreotti, et al. Otherwise his analysis of the Megacrisis is brilliantly terrifying.

[@JB-yg3ew]

Cool to see another Alaskan on here

[@Mundproductionfunkhaus]

Tribal bonding at a earth scale requires a new myth for humanity

[@LongDefiant]

Maybe having a common set of goals rather than a common set of enemies? I totally agree with your statement. I'm just boggled by how to actually make it work.

[@Hyumanity]

@@LongDefiant something something the revival of awe and reverence for nature and the universe.

[@javierrodriguez3098]

Great talk. Regardless, the specter of political economy is haunting this conversation. We can’t stoic our way out of this global capitalist cluster fuck.

[@davidlinjiahao]

Has anyone been able to find the study Daniel referred to: "The Statistical Precursors of Super Genius"? Please help!!

[@zardiac521]

His beard game reaches never-before-seen levels

[@benrohr]

Ha I was thinking this too.

[@tomsalvage8186]

His beard is a continuance

[@marcostumpf7716]

1:23:48 What does he mean? GPT-6? I can't find anything. Thank you!

[@c3bhm]

We are currently at GPT-3, which is cutting edge artificial intelligence. So the questioner is referring to the future version, which will be even more advanced. It's like saying "...the iPhone 35...", when the latest model is the iPhone 14.

[@marcostumpf7716]

@@c3bhm very nice of you to answer. Thank you so much!

[@akha8aier]

JENN IM brought me here.

[@glenallan6279]

Here here to 100% Unemployment! Humans can finally find a purpose and meaning unprescribed. It won’t be easy, but will open up so many potentials very few ever have the ability to explore.

[@stephenphillips6245]

Home schooling would have the added value of causing self directed interest in learning...and more connectedness with the material..IMO

[@stephenphillips6245]

I was never home schooled, but I spent a few years in a self directed high school program and went to school for Psychology and English...classes that demanded thoroughness take home tests that could take up to 10 hrs to answer the questions ( had to answer them in your own way).

[@pralmanack2010]

There is no answer. There is no solution. There is only practice.

[@gk2677]

We can’t prepare our children for the unpredictable future by definition. The best we as parents can do for our children is not to divorce, let’s start there .

[@Dilmahkana]

You can prepare a child to be agile, to be adaption. As Daniel mentioned, become aware of what is salient and then move from there... Surely, the step before your solution is to 'marry well' first? There is a lot of complexity in decision making in approaching that step too...

[@treefrog3349]

Ironically, and tellingly, at least 50% of the American population would be unable to follow this conversation because of the education system they grew up under. Additionally, probably 90% of that same population would prefer to play video games or watch sports to listening to this vital analysis of our "present moment". We the People are the equivalent of the exuberant orchestra in the Grand Salon of the Titanic moments before...

[@RickDelmonico]

thanks

[@aliciaperez1519]

Andbyou dont live with them

[@iananderson8288]

1:33:00

[@redrodlrowon]

He is a wondrous man.

[@BellaBella-jw9ef]

#learntocode

[@tribebuddha]

#learntolearn

[@JB-yg3ew]

Learn to grow food

[@brucetatt705]

Climate change mitigated refugees, ok thanks Daniel, your the man.

[@pascalw.paradis8954]

Next month we hit 8 billion people. WAY TO MANY. NUFF SAID. ❤️❤️🌎❤️❤️ Mother Earth wants us G-O-N-E

[@heidifarstadkvalheim4952]

.. actually.. trowing a spear was not that important, to heard nuts, roots and other plants was the most important . 80 % of the nutrician in the ancient times - like stone age was plants . Gatherers was much more impotant than hunters..... but its a male world still

[@Stratton218]

annotaitons

[@Stratton218]

13:42

[@glenallan6279]

Yeah Daniel, Dunbar’s number, tribes…. We’ve lost the plot entirely.

[@glenallan6279]

There is a way to get back to a descaled world, and accomplish building amazing things. The tech is just about there, the blockchain has been created to record value exchange. It’s only the fact that it’s not specifically worked on in the majority world that make getting there so slow.

[@RickDelmonico]

Aboriginal peoples would spook large game over cliffs. No spears required.

[@Knardsh]

More importantly, are you both single? Because power couple

[@treefrog3349]

"Perverse economic incentives" is just a euphemism for BLIND GREED.

[@Sharon_Lewis]

I’m not sure that’s quite correct. Systemic Incentives that unintentionally leverage an evolutionary bias against loss to keep people playing a game that we are only just now seeing can’t be sustained, is quite a bit different than an individual miser intentionally hoarding resources for selfish reasons.

[@firefily]

She does not seem to know how to listen and learn. Skipping her monologues all the way.

[@BradSayers]

I didn't see them as monologues...but more as her articulated experience....man it must have been good to not attend school...we really need to see that system as a school system, not eduction...as ivan illich said in deschooling society. She was lucky, and she described it well

[@brianh5844]

You missed out! Both speakers had very valuable contributions to the dialogue (and it definitely *was* a dialogue).

[@iananderson8288]

1:39:00

[@iananderson8288]

1:47:00

[@iananderson8288]

1:54:00