Daniel Schmachtenberger: "Bend Not Break Part 5" | The Great Simplification #50

Daniel Schmachtenberger: "Bend Not Break Part 5: Criteria and Categories for Response"
Show Summary:
On this 5th and final installment of the Bend Not Break series with Daniel Schmachtenberger, we unpack the framework and mindset needed to begin thinking about responses. This conversation touches on what it means to work on personal development in the light of a polycrisis, and how it is truly a never ending but necessary challenge. Finally, Daniel and Nate break down a 3x3 grid on time frame and category of responses.
Whilst this is the end of this series, there is, of course, much left to be unpacked. If there are any specific topics you want covered in a follow up Daniel/Nate conversation, we encourage you to leave your questions in the comments of the KZbin video, which can be found here: • Daniel Schmachtenberge...
About Daniel Schmachtenberger:
Daniel Schmachtenberger is a founding member of The Consilience Project, aimed at improving public sensemaking and dialogue.
The throughline of his interests has to do with ways of improving the health and development of individuals and society, with a virtuous relationship between the two as a goal.
Towards these ends, he’s had particular interest in the topics of catastrophic and existential risk, civilization and institutional decay and collapse as well as progress, collective action problems, social organization theories, and the relevant domains in philosophy and science.
For Show Notes and More visit: www.thegreatsi...

[@anthonytroia1]

My new favorite Schmachtenberger soundbite: "The answer to all the problems is all of the solutions. There is not a theory of change, there is an ecology of theories of change. So often when someone says, "What is the solution?" it sounds like someone is saying "What species is a forest?"'

[@goodwill_ken]

Lots of problem talk rather than solution talk because the solutions require societal change. Which requires societal change to incentives which drive the existing system. A massive job.

[@mods3167]

Lol! Same. 💯 agree though, I've been saying it for years: culture is the issue and entering a race to the bottom that has been increasing in speed exponentially has led us to where we are. Breaking the cycle is the challenge.

[@alexsem490]

That's not how the world works. His basic premise is that we need intellectuals with hearts of gold at the top of the social dominance hierarchy or else we're fucked. Notice how he never explains how that will ever come to be or gives any call to action to get people to try and make it so. Daniel is the type of guy who'll stand on the deck of the Titanic and give a 10 hour lecture on how the ship will sink instead of gathering troops to overthrow the captain crew and prevent the actual shipwreck.

[@Will_whore_my_data_for_food]

@Alex Sem Oh, Thats not how the world works you say? Then tell us, wise sage! How does it work? And how ought it work?

[@woodrowjr.7166]

@@alexsem490 I understand why you would say “that’s not how the world works” because when you look at our current state as a whole (humanity on earth), the dominant cultures are all the best at game theoretic practices, with the main objectives being to increase our (ultimately) individual balance sheets which promote sociopathic behavior, so, yes, that’s “not how the world works”, but I would add one more word to the end of that statement, “currently”. What Daniel is so gifted at doing is very effectively articulating our current state & how we got here in a way that can enlighten the masses where we would otherwise not understand and this is of utmost importance because we need awareness before we can make meaningful change. I’m not saying this change will be easy, because it is ingrained in us to “want more stuff”, which is the fundamental cause of rivalrous dynamics between people, leading to all the “bad”. But what Daniel has helped me realize is that we as a species can change our ways if we can change our value systems like the very peaceful cultures that exist even today amongst us capitalist pigs - instead of putting our energies towards trying to obtain the best marketed thing instead of the actual best thing, and valued being kind and helpful to others instead of being individualistic & selfish, etc, we would probably fair better but now as I was typing this I just realized that I don’t really want to ride public transport or not have my nice things. The planet will be good for my lifetime and my children’s so … yeah, that’s a big ask. But Daniel is cool as hell. ☮️ ✌️

[@gtromble]

I love watching Nate as he thinks he's running a 5K to a 3X3 grid and then finds it's a 10K and then it's a marathon and finally realizes it's an ultra through the back roads of Appalachia. But at last they get there.

[@thegreatsimplification]

That made me laugh out loud 😀

[@datamongerbonny]

I am here for the ultra @@thegreatsimplification! Quite literally training for an ultra listening to these magnificent conversations. The forest animals never know what they are getting -- tears, guffaws, gasps -- it’s all in these episodes. Thanks Nate -- happy to meet you!

[@anthonytroia1]

Some unhinged self indulgence regarding Schmachtenberger's advice (1:29:40): Upon earning my bachelors degree I concluded there was no career out there worth pursuing. I instead grabbed the first job I could find, aggressively saved money and within nine months bought an acre of land. Then 23, I lived under a tarp while building myself a cabin. I have since paid everything off and spend the majority of my time gardening, wildcrafting, exercising, meditating and making music with friends. I spend next to nothing and only secure substantial income if I am developing some part of the property (building a greenhouse for instance). Regarding "keeping your overhead low" I think Schmachtenberger's advice is spot on. I couldn't be happier. P.S. I know how distasteful it is to blabber about yourself on someone else's platform so, sorry Nate, but I couldn't resist

[@Dilmahkana]

Awesome! Very admirable! Did you find many social difficulties/ heavy peer pressure/ subtle social deterrents at different stages of your journey so far?

[@moodulated]

Sounds like you have some valuable life experience worth sharing. Have you seen the edible acres podcast? they are doing great videos.

[@anthonytroia1]

@@Dilmahkana the primary pushback was from my parents. They are "gated community types" who raised my sister to be an attorney and me to be a doctor. My sister is a successful attorney; I on the other hand... I also received some pushback from the neighbors when I initially purchased land. I live in a very poor county in the hills of NC and folks didn't take kindly to a yankee hippy owning land in their hood. Both the above problems have since resolved.

[@anthonytroia1]

@@moodulated I have not. I'm looking it up now. Thanks for the tip!

[@mellonglass]

In doing this process, can u now see the value to what a Venus project would become, from the ground upwards, rather than the top down academic? A hand made future is essentialism?

[@MollyMelhuish]

Nate - at the beginning of this conversation you mention things that worry you - climate loss, insect loss … and Daniel takes a “high-touch” approach to his engagement with this planet’s problems. New Zealand is a wonderful place to experiment with all three parts of your matrix - culture, political economy and tech. Our indigenous culture, Maori, have recently acquired rights to recover a tiny fraction of what they lost during colonisation and subsequent theft of their land and suppression of their culture. Some of their maraes could now become “islands of coherence”, as you, Nate, described in your Superorganism article in Ecological Economics. I am helping one marae to build a “tiny forest” that will contain all the 60-odd species of the original forest some of which are browsed almost to extinction in the nearby hills. It will have a playground that tells their legends of creation and their history of settlement, and will grow their healing plants. This is truly a high-touch initiative, that will involve kids from kindergarten through university, and elderly folk like me to tell the scientific, ecological stories - and do the necessary weed-busting, oh so satisfying!.

[@katharineburke9716]

This is beautiful Molly! I love 'Islands of coherence'- now I have to go read that article. Thank you so much for this story and its vision.

[@Withlindaandrews]

When well-being becomes as high or higher value as profits, there will be miracles.

[@treefrog3349]

Whenever I listen to you guys I am totally taken aback by your admirable fusion of heart, soul, and mind. I am simultaneously shocked and disgusted by the sheer absence of those qualities on Capital Hill, Wall Street and Madison Avenue. Even more disturbing is the fact that "people like you" are minimized within the public discourse. It is truly heart-breaking.

[@katharineburke9716]

On education: I have been following Daniel since his 'Talk at Emergence' and following Nate for several years. I have used material from both of you in my teaching to 16 year olds, esp. from the Consilience project and from Reality 101. I am currently finishing a book on developing a new ecological paradigm for schools, focusing specifically on systems thinking with biophilia and ecocentrism. Daniel: 'It doesn't take many' 1:30. Exactly: the book is based on a series of case studies of ordinary teachers in a small school who blend what you call Touch with holistic, interconnected and systems thinking in small projects based on their own passions, but which, when put together, form a mosaic, an ecosystem of new thinking. This 'start anywhere, go everywhere' approach, where ultimately the stories of each project creates momentum and incentive and a new culture, is continuously growing into new stories and new capabilities, as we learn from each other. As you say Daniel, we must have both a long approach, for the reform of all schools, and an immediate response- what can each of us do now that moves us forward?

[@zoecohen9071]

Sounds wonderful Katherine

[@fona008]

Wow .. amazing!

[@brycelupoli7340]

Hi Katharine, One of my best friends is currently getting his Master’s in education at Harvard, where he is focusing on how to move our current educational paradigm towards being sufficient to meeting the meta-crisis. Right now he’s writing a big paper on the erosion of teacherly authority in the Anthropocene, in which he also proposes possible remedial responses. I suspect you two may have much of value to share with each other. Would you be interested in having a conversation with him? Wishing you all the best, and thank you for your work! -Bryce

[@anthonytroia1]

You are officially cool. Respect.

[@katharineburke9716]

@@brycelupoli7340 hi, I have tried answering twice and can't see it on this thread. Would love to be in touch with your friend.

[@jjuniper274]

Greetings. I just started this episode, but in it you asked for insight from the audience. I would strongly suggest talking to widows. What made them push forward in the face of tragedy? What is their definition of resilience? Particularly those with young children. You will not find a more resilient group of humans who can step back, assess strengths and weaknesses, sometimes for years or even seconds, to make the most of dire situations. Also, the empathy of these women is exceptionally strong, but the practical nature of having to be both parents at once, and often bread winner can be notable. We often overlook that after WWII, those European nations were reforged by predominantly female populations, and their children. Good luck Nate and Daniel.

[@saundersbruce1]

Thank you both so much for these amazing talks. As a 60 year old growing up in the Neoliberal order Daniel has opened my eyes to our new impending problems. Daniel, you need to write a book to package your thinking and convey it to the world. Your insights into depolarizing these big discussions is essential.

[@Dilmahkana]

I'm in my mid-20s and for the past three years I've been working for myself, making a bit of money but gave myself time to develop, read and watch and learn about these things. But luckily (?) I've had some inheritance from my Mum who past away 10years ago so any urgent/big money needs were met by tapping into that money. My family told me to invest all that money for my future, which is good advice but I'm not intrinsically motivated that way. But also that money safety net gave me the chance to invest in myself internally and with relationships to the world, which sets me up well for the future just as much as money investments in my opinion. I'm in the position now where I can maybe make more money, invest my inheritance, and align my work with wholesome, holistic values, and continue developing myself through ecology of practices. Anyone in the London area, I'm heading over in Feb for a few years- would love to meet some of you :)

[@boniknik1981]

Thanks for another great video Nate!! I remember somebody told me that Tupac Shakur supposedly said "I'm not the person who will change the world, but I will spark the mind of those who will." What you do here is so important, and I believe you and the people you invite to your show will spark the mind of the people who can change the world. Thank you for what you do!

[@jimo4106]

Thanks to both of you for putting this podcast together. People are finally waking up to the "crops" we've sewn. I'd like to see more content on getting people together for action groups and the things we can do as individuals to help get back on track for living with Earth rather than just taking from Earth.

[@datamongerbonny]

I am a geospatial analyst invited to speak from podiums across the globe. Early on I began to interject concepts such as rivalrous dynamics and generator functions (with proper attribution to Daniel) to bring the small world into focus. I discovered Nate’s conversations a few weeks ago and queue them up for my 3-hour trail runs. I am different on a cellular level and will be a strong advocate and voice for both these conversations and the tiny blue planet. Thank you for this perfect summary episode on how to create agency no matter your particular vertical...

[@carolspencer6915]

Good evening Nate and Daniel. Thankyou both for these continued shared conversations. Think I will be interviewing for a new boss in 2023. Time for me to sack my current boss, after 17 years as a Mental Health Nurse within the NHS. Require a shiny new business model of managing ME and my associated work! Thankyou for the brain gym.😀💜

[@treefrog3349]

As Nate said "we are a tiny fraction of the intellectual discourse"... that is occurring in this nation. THAT, in itself, is the very thing that terrifies me. Objective truth has been subsumed by partisan political posturing that serves almost no-one but the participants; economic considerations are viewed in terms of quarterly profits not in terms of human equity and negative externalities; magical thinking is replacing thoughtful dialectics; and objective reality is being replaced by a kaleidoscope of unexamined "opinion". Nate, you have become an "oasis" of rational sensibility that is so sorely missing elsewhere. Thank you. Thank you.

[@AdamMiceli]

Yesterday, I screamed like a little girl when I saw a video that I thought was the long-awaited "Part 5". I was so sad when I realized my mistake. But then...

[@august_19]

Personally, Daniel & Nate, I am interested in hearing the next podcast episode on Liquid Democracy. Specifically laying out concrete ideas for Long Term, start from scratch, systems of Governance that we as a society can implement. Also (2:17:22) who wants to coordinate on setting up a Discord for people interested in these topics?! Would help in finding mentors, Emotional SUPPORT group, and watching party 🎉 (Also so I and others can have a chance to meet/interact with Daniel, he’s so cute😊)

[@JB-yg3ew]

I'm interested in such a discord

[@olivergilpin]

Timestamps from the website! 00:40 - Daniel Schmachtenberger info + TGS episodes part 1 and part 2 and part 3 and part 4 + Overview of Nate’s story: Animated videos, Economics for the Future - Beyond the Superorganism + 3x3 Grid: 01:13 - KZbin Video 03:04 - Long term climate geographic projection models 05:42 - Marvin Harris, Cultural Materialism 05:50 - Marx 13:52 - Warren Buffett, Steve Jobs 23:22 - War in Eastern Europe, Moving backwards on climate change 26:20 - OODA loops 37:43 - Daniel’s list of questions for how to understand a problem space and a solution space 42:55 - Richard Haass, CFR 44:55 - First Order/second order effects 46:52 - David Bohm and J. Krishnamurti 53:18 - System thinking 54:01 - Intrinsic vs extrinsic motivation 57:30 - Unexpected externalities of the smart phone 57:53 - Precautionary Principle 58:25 - Diversity of Perspective and Pluralism 1:04:12 - Rachel Carson 1:06:38 - Tragedy of the Commons 1:13:35 - Negative talk about an opponent is an effective campaign strategy 1:40:40 - Juliet Schor, The Overspent American 1:43:10 - Degrowth vs Post-growth 1:47:35 - WHO, G20 1:48:40 - Geography of the Amazon and largest threats to its existence 1:51:00 - Effects of the loss of the Amazon as hydrological pump 1:55:30 - Nelson Del Rio, Prosperity of the Commons 1:56:50 - The World Bank 2:07:00 - Leaded gasoline and its eventual outlaw 2:09:17 - Larry Lessig 1:09:55 - Rank Choice Voting, gerrymandering, campaign finance reform 2:19:02 - Tomas Bjorkman, TGS Episode

[@victorious4701]

Thank you so much, man! This is such a great help, as I'll be returning to this video time and time again, for sure.

[@olivergilpin]

@@victorious4701 I copied it from the website since Nate didn't put it in description but did on the website! Can thank you him :)

[@diegoevrard-broquet8050]

bless you!

[@steverixon7708]

We need you & alike on mainstream TV & radio every few days of the week.....that would help enormously.... Thanks

[@martinacusack9867]

Thanks for the conversations gentelmen. I am not a great talker but i strive to listen to people who make sense, and share tid bits to others in my smalll community. Just do what we can do

[@systemsexplorer1172]

Thanks for the dialogos! The complexity of the situation seems to require a level of capacity that most / all (?) don't have. We need prosthetics (tools) to help us. This time the tools are cognitive / complexity / systems tools. One such tool is AI. However, that tool alone can create unfortunate dependencies and deleterious 2nd / 3rd / ... order effects. Another tool is mental prosthetics to deal with the complexity / non-linearities of the systems we are dealing with. Simulation / modeling is one way to address this complexity. We do have ways of identifying some of the causal factors at play. However, the effects of multiple interacting causes are not obvious to most human minds. A feedback loop between us and such models may be way to upgrade our capacity to understand / deal with the overwhelming complexity of complex interacting ecologies. In particular, with something like the culture, political economy, tech stack and the different time horizons for triage, transitional, and long term responses. Question for Daniel and Nate: do such interactive models exist? Are you developing them? Are they open source? Thanks!!!

[@Seawithinyou]

I have never listened so deeply with Nate Art Berman Daniel Schmachtenberger Simon Michaux Daniel Pauly and All! As we can try to prepare for an interesting challenging Future Blessings to all Living things 🐝🦀🐋🕊🦍🐄🌳👩🏽🌏🙏🏼❤️ 🌳

[@highdesertfarmer2126]

Greetings from New Mexico! Perhaps we could hear from Daniel and Nate about existing and developing networks of people working on inner development, group sensemaking and responses to the poly-crisis . How to join such networks and how to get people to do so. I am very interested in how to be “In coordination with people that are similarly motivated but have different capabilities.” I could use help finding people interested in applying Daniel's framing of action and decision making to localized agriculture projects and natural building. I work with many farmers and localization food advocates, however as you discuss, there is a drive to "decide and act" and a worrisome trend to "fundamentalist" thinking. Our family farm has been dedicated to “regenerative” agriculture for 40 years. With so much discussion of agriculture’s importance moving forward, I feel we have something to offer. Lessons learned will hopefully reduce the mistakes made by past back-to-the-land movements. Thank you, Nate and Daniel, for your hard work and clear thinking.

[@roky24301]

Has Daniel Schmactenberger considered the implications of oil depletion and mineral shortages when advocating for cutting edge digital technologies in governance and AI in education, as these digital technologies would massively increase energy and mineral demand? It seems that there's talk about the need for a sociocultural and political shift that values the utilization of tech towards these goals, but no elaboration on the concrete viability of these innovations given the biophysical limits you and others lay out.

[@mellonglass]

It would be interesting to note where energy efficiency lies, and how corrupt processes give the illusion of cost = energy use. Electricity is as water, an optic fibre is as a led flashlight, a router is as the thousandth of a toaster and bit mining is as a smelter. Every banking process corrupts freedom of communication, the design of the web was communication as a tool, corrupted by profit and theft, the true loss of metering, choked wires, packaged goods, ‘paid for’ information.

[@teiuq]

The upside of using AI for optimized education and improved coordination based on global data has to be bigger than the downside of using oil to instal the required infrastructure for that doesnt it? If you look at how inefficiently much of the oil is used today anyways ("turning billions of barrels of oil into microliters of dopamine" to quote Nate here) i would consider it a worthy cause to increase economic efficiency and resiliency of the ecosystem longterm. It would improve mentioned superstructure, social structure and infrastructure/technology-stack at once. Alternatively we might use the remaining oil to fight for the resources that are left as we are already doing more or less.

[@raajaggarwal7777]

@@teiuq I think his/her concern is more about oil depletion than about externalities of using oil (although certainly that's critical as well)

[@kupkaon]

Yeah. I guess I really have to embody the perspective that you must push in the right direction no matter the result, as mentioned previously. Because hearing the ways of change, the pace seems just impossibly slow. Like I discussed environmental issues and the progress with somebody working in a NGO trying to change laws and work in the whole EU context and really, it takes like years and years to just explain to the farmers that they should not splash all the chemicals into water streams but actually leave a zone of protection between the field and the water stream. This is just such a bloody triviality compared to what we are discussing, and it takes years!!! Anyway, this is the context what we are all facing and have to handle, I guess... Thank you so much for the series so far in any case.

[@barbcarbon9440]

Fantastic. Thank you guys. I’ll have to listen to this whole series a couple more times to really grasp everything. These conversations are so rich and so informative. Thank you both for guiding those of us who want to help. ❤

[@burtonsschool9532]

Thank you for all these videos. I saved them on my website so that I can study them. Round 2 - Time to go back to video 1 and listen and take note.

[@kraigschultz8622]

Great conversation about a matrix and talk about laying out strategy as Triage, Transitional and Long Term Solutions, but did anyone write this down and make it into actionable plans? What are next steps? Who is going to take specific action? I feel like we just came out of another meeting where no one will publish minutes and no assignments were made, and no one will be accountable to getting anything done. Let's team up the thinkers with the doers and let's get something done! I understand we don't have the map figured out for the long term solutions. But, surely there are triage things that just need to get done ASAP or the long term solutions won't even be an option. So, by all means, let's not call this the end of the dialog, let's keep the dialog going with specific actionable steps that Daniel said he'd like to offer to this group.

[@aggarwal7622]

Could you guys talk about the viability of planning for futures that include AI and other high-tech components with the coming simplification in available energy and mineral resources? It seems to me that the call for things like internet democracy, AI tutors in education etc. also require substantially greater natural resources, and considering biophysical constraints that Nate talks about with things like oil and lithium, this vision might have significant difficulties.

[@anthonytroia1]

I am not expert in AI or energy so it's probably unwise to open my mouth. With that caveat: I'm unclear how using AI tutors (one example) would necessarily increase our energy demand given that everyone is already glued to a screen. It's simply trading out Tictoc and video games for AI tutoring. What am I missing? Perhaps I don't understand the question. Is there a higher energy demand for AI than youtube? If I sound like a fool please be gentle ;)

[@zpettigrew]

Yes. Most that text is fanciful "Techno-optimism" that will never be scalably realized.

[@elliottmcintyre9092]

Well listening to you both have made me lose weight. Being aware of energy and neuroscience has helped me become more aware. A huge scale level of consciousness change has to occur and it’s happening, slowly but it’s happening.

[@casey2806]

Nate says, "One of the reasons you are not being more effective globally is because you can't say no to helping people." (20:03) I feel a number of things should be considered. In addition to that guidance of making the right choice, by being available, Daniel inspires many people to go that little bit further. I expect it also helps Daniel himself stay grounded.

[@dancetlin464]

In part #4, the set of [hyper-agents, institutions, egregores] was briefly mentioned at the end. I would be curious to hear about how this set of active and passive agents intersects with the grid discussed in this episode of {[triage, transition, long term] x [culture, political economy, infrastructure tech stack]}

[@tedhoward2606]

I so align with all that both of you say in this series, and I still see a different and essential dimension. Daniel uses the example of cancer, as a demonstration of what happens when cooperation breaks down. It is a good example (one I have learned a little about in the 13 years since being declare terminal cancer by our medical system, and sent home to die), but two essential aspects of it were not explicitly stated. Cancer happens when the growth inhibition, that comes from cells in the cooperative communicating properly with their neighbours and the wider cooperative, breaks down. When that happens, cells revert to the older non-cooperative behaviour, and all the complexity that the cooperation made possible is lost. Two key messages in that which are fundamental to understanding how complexity evolves and survives: 1/ Cooperation is fundamental to the emergence and survival of all levels of complexity. If it is lost, then that level of complexity fails - inevitably. 2/ Accurate communication is fundamental to maintaining cooperation (all levels, all domains). Those fundamentals recurs through all levels of complexity. The insanely over simplistic notion that evolution is all about competition is simply wrong - and the wrongness of it holds existential level risk. If cooperation is to survive, then cheating must be mitigated, and that means punished (all levels, all domains). And that punishment needs to be enough to remove all benefits gained by cheating, plus a little bit. Current legal systems fail to do this. All the problems you both speak of, and all the complexity you mention, are part of it, and they are symptoms of levels of failure of cooperation. Perhaps the biggest being the idea that competitive markets can solve all problems. That idea is not simply wrong, it is a total inversion of reality. It is wrong in all dimensions imaginable. I love your work Nate, but I hate the name "The Great Simplification". One of the biggest problems we have is recursive attempts to over simplify the irreducibly complex. We need to accept the complexity, accept our eternal and profound ignorance, and only then do forms of useful simplifications present themselves. But those simplifications have to be consciously and knowingly built upon the irreducibly complex. And I know our brains have multiple sets of systems predisposing us to various level of simplicity, and they are necessary in some contexts, and dangerous in others. Keep up the great work guys - loved listening to you both.

[@gunarskubarko5080]

Thank you for this series! This episode really made me reflect on me not having a core ex-risk issue, that I truly care about. I am more in a preper mindset, trying to understand the risk landscape and which ones I can prepare myself and mine. One core work would be community building, trying to find and connect active motivated people, that I can rely on in case of need. Basically it is private event organizing, so these people can meet and build relationships. In our highly individualized world, that is more of a challenge than I expected. My question for a follow up Q&A episode: How do you see the role of generalists in the transition period? After all jack of all trades is a master of none.

[@enchemin5652]

In Holistic Management, the interested parties first define the context of life they want to achieve. (please check Allan Savory; he came to similar conclusions as Daniel a long time ago). It gives a common and federating social, environmental, familial, individual, and financial framework against which checking potential solutions and then their eventual unexpected consequences. This can be applied at the individual, family, city, national level. It is amazing how opposite factions can come to common solutions when there is a well defined common goal.

[@Ghanzo]

Been looking forward to this since part 4! So excited to hear it!!!

[@treefrog3349]

.Nate, you are probably more "grounded" than anyone I have ever heard. I am 73, your "elder", so believe me when I say that you are a hundred years more psychologically mature than most of the people who run this country. You think and you care deeply. They don't.

[@RebeccaRachmany]

Agree with Daniel that this feels like the completion of a series, both in terms of your discussions with him and in terms of the podcast as a whole. It does feel like the first season has been focused more on "where we are" and "triage" and very little long-term thinking. It might be interesting to go into deep-dives on specific topics with trios of people thinking about short-medium-longterm solutions in a particular realm, and it might be easier for you if you choose a topic and a person and tell them to bring the other two people along. It would be great if you could do maybe two totally opposite views on the same problem (two sets of three people, separate podcasts, a week apart). Would love to see a lot more voices from the global south, younger people, some not-so-academic approaches, more female voices, and honestly people a little less pessimistic. In this episode you admit your bias towards triage and you also have your own way of thinking about the solution which seems to have skewed the types of people you invite towards a particular direction. This would spice things up a bit, because the format is starting to feel a bit stagnant.

[@ShannonCooper]

Thank you both for this series and this episode

[@alvarrijn4610]

The final instalment. Gasp. Is was mourning the end of this series a couple minutes in. Then thankfully 40 minutes in you were already quipping about the introduction to episode 7. There is hope yet.

[@jenslaven-belanger3529]

Great series, I am watching all of them.. I would very much like one where you discuss “What does a governance system that is adequate to the complexity of the issues look like”. And I love the expression Gaia Speed. Thank you both.

[@neenaadams4301]

A thousand bows precious souls. Daniel your a beautiful example

[@Adamisthechizzle]

Great conversation you two. It's given me much needed hope.

[@neenaadams4301]

The blessing of getting the sword that cuts into one so compassionately tears of understanding shredding through a thousand hearts with in... one...the soft stillness of a break in insanity to the truth of peace

[@j.s.c.4355]

I used to work for a soil conservation district. One of our big pushes was no-till farming to prevent soil erosion and reduce siltation of salmon streams. The trade-off was, farmers had to use more glyphosate to eliminate weeds that would come up if they didn’t till. At the time, the literature claimed that glyphosate was relatively harmless and had a short lifespan, but now, 20 years later, we learn that it’s a huge carcinogen. Big surprise! I am left wondering, however, if the conservation district is still supporting no-till because it’s better than the alternative?

[@foomax8500]

My 4 Strategies for the oncoming crises. 1: Sustainable Hedonism Enjoy the ride 2.:Protect yourself & loved ones Prepping, mitigating dependence 3: Create or join a resilient & sustainable community Lead by example 4: Fight Join the global battle combatting these crises. Or some combination of all 4 at once.

[@afzalrashid3566]

This is a wonderful conversation. I am so grateful to both of you for thinking about the solutions for meta crisis. On a personal note, I am in contact with some very influencial people thinking about the cultural, political economy, and tech or infrastructure solutions for the situation in Afghanistan. What would be the the general principals in triage, transition, and long term solutions for a country like Afghanistan that I can propose?

[@andywilliams7989]

His voice and his calm matter of fact way of speaking is so science fiction. Somewhere between Dick and Clarke, I feel like I'm listening to the 2nd or 3rd chapter that is there to describe the arc of how humans got from the present to the futur. Daniel will be iconic to futur humans like Sun Mi in the cloud atlas.

[@colectivointernacional]

This conversation was fantastic, and it's the first time that I've heard Daniel map his solutions oriented framework with this level of detail which was enlightening to say the least. Question: What are some tools, books or people to learn more from in terms of Systemic Thinking that any of you would recommend to anybody committed to learn more about these subjects?

[@StoriedWisdom]

I dont have the link on hand but I recently stumbled on a Goodreads reading list of Daniel's. I had a glance through, and I think you will find some helpful material in there, Arturo.

[@MultiTheRobster]

Wonderful conversation, thanks for this Nate & Daniel! I like how Daniel is putting a focus on the 'process' towards solutions, so how to relate to them, instead of a list of 'solutions', although I sense they are equally valuable). And the mention of an Academy is super-interesting too. Looking forward to the Summit in 2023! 😎👏

[@Withlindaandrews]

I see this a lot I’m entrepreneurship. “I have a great idea.” Now let me find a problem to attach it to. Vs fully understanding the problem and the different lenses of interpretation.

[@globesurfer122]

You have any ideas on which part of this problem space has the best opportunity for solutions & entrepreneurship?

[@martingifford5415]

Daniel said: ""The answer to all the problems is all of the solutions." But "all the problems" are effects that have causes. Indeed, there are a chain of causes for each problem. And all the chains lead back to a fundamental cause. That fundamental cause is the belief that happiness is dependent on material, social, or spiritual gain. That belief is an illusion because happiness is innate, i.e it is not dependent on gain. So let's remove the illusion. At this point, Daniel would say that's a reductionistic analysis. He might say that someone in a poor country will cut down trees in the Amazon because he needs to feed his kids, so it's about survival, not happiness. But the people employing him to cut down the trees are already rich. The people buying the trees are already rich. It is those people who need to see that their own happiness is not dependent on gain. And it is the belief in gain that stops the rich people from addressing the survival issues of the poor people. Daniel would then say that someone else will buy the trees, which is the game theory trap. But in the same way that Daniel is willing to work on multiple fronts to deploy "all of the solutions", we can work on all the fundamental illusion (mentioned above) in all the prospective tree buyers. If we don't cure the disease, the symptoms will keep appearing.

[@charleschaffanjon8864]

1/ Could you give advice on how to jungle between the necessity of travel (over long distances, often in plane) for those setting the foundations of change and the necessity to walk the walk regarding GHGs emissions. ( to reformulate : going to the Cop27 in private jets isn’t a problem if the impact you have there is worth it. If it doesn’t, it makes you part of the problem, whether you’re well intentioned or not : how to measure such an impact ? ) 2/ What would be the Triage/Transition/Long-term landscape for the conflicting military forces ? ( To reformulate : what end-point can we aim at regarding law-enforcement and states rivalry - as much nation states as future network states. Consciousness will fragment itself anyway, even if only for rogue individuals : how to answer to that in a non-fragmented way ? /// Is transition even possible there ? It seems to be such a frigid system. Can it be changed from the interior ? And if not, how to « skip » the transitional phase when a system cannot allow it ? And without waiting for the collapse ! ) Thanks a lot for what you guys are doing 🙏 A beacon of radical hope in oceans of bullshit !

[@Withlindaandrews]

It’s BOTH AND ❤

[@truepatriot6388]

I think that Syntropy (also called negentropy) is the Third Attractor Daniel has been seeking. From the perspective of complex systems, industrial civilization is based on entropic technology and social-economics. This includes competition, concentrated entropic power, and expanding capacity for destruction - including killing/controlling living things. Any living planet will need a certain amount of entropic power. Our biosphere needs sufficient atmospheric CO2 to maintain a biophilic temperature range and prevent another "snowball Earth". This REQUIRES the recycling plant biomass. This is the essential role of all the consumer species (the animals and fungi), including primates like us. We also help to redistribute water, essential nutrients, plant seeds and pollen. Over time, entropic organisms have become woven into the syntropic web-of-life. Beyond enhanced thermoregulation, we have made essential contributions to the intelligence, beauty, complexity, stability and resilience of our living planetary system... until recent advent of entropic Civilization. Modern humans have become hyper-entropic consumers. Starting with stone blades and spears, we have gathered ever-greater capacity to direct focused energy in order to break things apart. All measures of our capacity for entropic power have shown that it has grown exponentially. It has also involved the ability to manipulate energy, materials and information in order to control others. The entropic path of power and control embodies typically masculine values of competition, hierarchy, force and aggression (enmity, us-them, win-lose). This contrasts with the more cooperative, nurturing, feminine power of syntropy, in which information, energy and materials are freely distributed and shared in equitable cycles of reciprocity (love, togetherness, win-win). There are reasons for the dominance of entropic power in recent planetary history. From Friston's Free Energy Principle, complex systems experience stress when predictions of what will happen turn out to be false - what he calls "surprisal". This is consistent with Shannon's description of information. For humans, this is why we experience discomfort when our expectations, desires and beliefs conflict with the reality of the world around us. According to Friston, systems can use two strategies to resolve this stress and discomfort (and there may be others). One strategy employs external power and control to change the environment by forcing it to conform to how our minds expect it to be. To satisfy our wants and desires. This is the entropic path at the heart of industrial-technologic consumption. It provides quick and easy pleasure-reward to our consumer (animal) brains, but requires constant use of external power and control to be maintained. When it conflicts with the wider system (the planetary biosphere), it inevitably generates unexpected problems, externalities, resistances, degradations, disappointments and endless struggle - aka the metacrisis. Thus, it is a false solution once it expands beyond our limited physical needs into the realm of endless socio-psychological wants and desires. Alternatively, in the face of unpleasant "surprisal", we can instead adapt/improve our internal predictive model of the wider-system around us. This involves expanding awareness and understanding of reality (aka the socio-biosphere) in order to better adapt ourselves to the whole AS IT IS. This is a proper solution. It characterizes many healthy philosophies and spiritual traditions, and while it takes time and effort to employ, it yields sustainable success with unexpected opportunities and deep satisfactions. This is the syntropic path of internal power, wisdom, beauty, self-control, love and contentment. This is the Third Attractor. See: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4jRkJ9tjJl3hLc

[@davidlasoff8261]

The historical reality that defines one of civilization's basic evolutionary imperatives or the will to power or the perceived necessity to war against the less fit (to get more or merely only enough in epochs where resources were quite scarce) or to meet the clear and present threat with as much brute force as is available seems like it would be a bridge too far to dial back from where we are today (and in the past as well) with sociopathic elites having all the advantages to maintain their megalomaniacal grip on dysfunctional governance with no intention to loosen such. Their tendency in this regard has never been different. Indeed, this human proclivity is primordial as well as modern. Hence, a functionally cooperative society appears nowhere in sight or on the horizon anytime soon. Therefore, as collapse ensues along with The Great Culling as an obvious parallel to The Great Simplification, what are three basic salient questions that the rising generations should be exploring to enable these and subsequent generations to find their own paths to thriving amidst such upheaval and through the next transition which is already here? This meta-question posits the requirement to pass on inherent "answers" for at least several centuries of civilizational breakdown with the objective being to facilitate the creation of an adopted reconfigured arrangement within a more natural habitat that creates intergenerational sustainability without voracious elites to again begin anew to rape the planet and ruin everything like they have always done in concert with the acquiescence of the masses. Run-on sentences are not ideal but in this case, these above ironically attempt to concisely AND comprehensively give context to any proposal for answering or modifying the meta-question in order to approach addressing its aim of arming subsequent generations with wisdom from generations who haven't exactly prepared them for what they need to do which is: redo civilization so their future generations may flourish and not be failed by them as we and those before us have done.

[@z17seattle]

Not enough big words for me to read. Please add like 37 more and tag me when you do.

[@z17seattle]

Also, too many periods. It's almost there, but not quite run-onny enough.

[@treefrog3349]

If I had one criticism of these astute conversations it would be that the Great Culling seems to be intentionally avoided. Did I miss something?

[@wrighttacks]

​@@treefrog3349 No you did not miss it. This is the topic, and a compelling one, that you will not hear but as Nate might say, frankly, at an additional one million more people ever 4.5 days it would seem there might be a least a nod in listing that as the ultimate factor affecting all things. It is difficult to imagine any solutions that can offset the impact of this population gain.

[@KillaKiRawBeats]

My birthday🎉 Happy 420... Started with a BANG! HA! 🔥

[@adrianhodgson4448]

I'm really enjoying these stimulating discussions. Hope what I've added below are useful for our dialogue. A few relevant frameworks comes to mind: -- Bill Sharpe and Anthony Hodgson's "3 horizons framework" -- Carol Sanford's articulations about "working on potential" (whereas working on problems is a diffusion of our precious love and energy.. not to mention the problem scattering/multiplying effect of resistance compared to the generative effect of working on potential. Eg: it is the reconciliation of forces in conflict that is the creation of anything new). -- Carol Sanford's extensive articulations on how our worldviews (ie: living, human-potential, machine, behavioural, aristocracy), and our paradigms (ie: extract value, arrest disorder, do 'good', evolve capacity), affect how we understand each other and the world we live in and how we sense, feel, think, imagine, do. -- Regenesis Institute's education work on developing the "evolve capacity" paradigm at the level of consciousness and potential. --Dan Palmer's profound work and influence on this at the level of conscious design, culture and regenerative development until his tragic passing this year through his projects: 'Making Permaculture Stronger ', "Holistic Decision Making" and "Living Design Process" (earnest work which still carries on in communities of practice and development and contributes immensely to the idea of this '3rd creative process' that Daniel Schmachtenberger has spoken about; with much of Palmer's influence there from Bohm, Bortoft, Christopher Alexander's scientific work on 'wholeness enhancing transformations', Carol Sanford, Possibility Management, Robert Fritz, Gurdjief and many others). From Dan I learned the profound importance in a creation process when a step is more like feeling the stones to cross the river or the reading of each line in a haiku than following a procedure (because each next best step changes the game completely, so LDP is the disciplined development of our consciousness for participating in creating anything that is attuned to the whole including it's parts and so not prescribing a 'plan', in essence a discipline for our participation in the conscious creation of wholes). Carol Sanford (influenced by Kuhn, Bortoft, Einstein, JG Bennett, C. Krone, Bohm, etc.) also describes very well how the idea of 'scaling up' strategies or formulas is machine thinking. If we want to work on something from the living worldview at any defined scale, we have to ultimately work on this right there at that scale/dimension as it is (informed by whatever, but not cutting and pasting 'solutions' or formulas) and to support it to raise it's viability and capability (including it's ability to evolve) through inner and outer work simultaneously (for the nestedness and organ-ness of beings to move together)..

[@noizydan]

I really enjoyed this series. I note a common criticism is that it is a bit rambling and unstructured with many asides. It would be great to find a way to collate all of these ideas into a more logical structure. Its a bit of a superorganism itself. How about a book, or even a structured course?

[@antonyliberopoulos933]

We live in a very complex environment. You make this abundantly clear.

[@zpettigrew]

Sorry for all the comments - I was just cringing at all the winding, stalling, and lack of effectual description. Still didn't see much "utility" in what Daniel says here. Daniel is great - just being honest. Hopefully my outline will help others who watch this. Worth it - even if it's only one person.

[@AWEdio]

Very few people understand dynamic complexity, and even when you do, you still have to make choices to do something or just sit back and watch.

[@MMcCluskey100]

Since everyone still has to make a living, how can self-development, therapy and opportunities to contribute to effective solutions become more economical/available? How can real communities (not just virtual online ones) reduce the "cost" of living, provide more opportunity to contribute to solutions and learn how to do so effectively and reduce the monetary/time cost of therapy? The weight of these responsibilities is massive for an individual so few manage it. What is needed for communities to share this burden and channel energy in service of life rather than fight for the dollars that are worth less and less everyday?

[@stewartderekbarker-bo9kg]

Finally someone who makes sense . fucking luv ya man

[@The_Articulation]

My Question: Would you please explore with Daniel why he see's the transmutation of high touch empathetic relations as the only viable way forward? Why does he discount the scaling and convergence of other incentive structures/ developmental strategies? What are your own thoughts on these topics Nate?

[@alexandrazachary.musician]

Not only an interesting evolution of conversation but these episodes have documented the ever increasing magnificence of Sri Smactenburgers beard. 🙏🏽❤️

[@xXxTeenSplayer]

Nate needed to listen to 1-4 before recording 5 hehe. 😂 He's wondering why its taking so long to get through this series, bless his heart. It does take a while to get, and even though Daniel is an amazing teacher, it may take a couple rounds to understand, Nate.

[@trevgrooves]

Love you guys. ✌🏻⭐️👏🏻

[@juliegahn1534]

So many good comments already. First, thanks for your work. Have enjoyed all 5 of this series & am almost caught up listening to all of the Great Simplification podcast episodes. Just wanted to add that my thoughts align with several of the other regenerative ag/holistic management/permaculture practitioners & thinkers that are following your work. Wondering if there could be an episode that looks at the 3X3 grid and how individual farmers/ranchers could network from the bottom up to effect change. I understand that there are already lots of NGOs - would just really appreciate the insights that would flow from a Nate and Daniel discussion on this issue because I am wondering if creating regional food, fiber, & shelter materials networks could significantly contribute to the "soft landing" or "bending not breaking". Having tried to work within State & Federal bureaucracies to advance some of these ideas, I share the concern others have expressed that we won't get there fast enough, and my anxiety revolves around the thought that we need some way to accelerate transition. It is hard even to bring ideas to existing NGOs sometimes - it seems we all tend to get set in our ways. Perhaps the networking ideas are key.?. Anyway; would really appreciate a Nate-Daniel discussion around the thought of regenerative farm, bottom-up networks ability to accelerate our collective ability to bend, not break and how to help thriving networks form and keep thriving.

[@juliegahn1534]

Here's a project that could provide inspiration to other parts of the country. 2020 intro: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r17RemSAgsqDo9k

[@juliegahn1534]

2021 update: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJqUaYiXet2EgrM

[@juliegahn1534]

David Holmgren's Future Scenarios work would fall under this thread of thinking as well.

[@packardsonic]

Please interview the Prosocialise Foundation. They have a specific method, a list of specific actions anyone can follow to bring about the transition. Simplified it involves fostering mutual aid and calling to end the need to earn a living but there is much more information for people to know how to do this. 1) advocate mutual aid 2) organize Free Collaboration Networks that meet needs for free 3) teach people to meet be leaders in fostering mutual aid in their cities and on line. We got this.

[@DeathToMockingBirds]

I would recommend you speak to Peter Joseph. Your views and system's understanding are extremely similar, yet you would both gain great insights from one another.

[@missh1774]

So a nearby star isn't collapsing and it's not gonna drastically effect our atmosphere and realities? Damn, I wish it were so simple. Teach recipes for smog purging with holistic wraps (models and methods), drop notions of racketeering and try notice the lever mechanism of the superorganism... and stop poking at the embryo wall when the answer is not yet apparent. Obviously this video was a hard one to grasp. Ok I'll probably rewatch in 4 month if I don't fully understand it now. Have a great Xmas Daniel! Thank you Nate.

[@kelseystrate2035]

It is difficult to know where you can make a difference and where you can't. There is an old slogan: No good deed goes unpunished. There are "need" people eager to take advantage of your empathy.

[@robinschaufler444]

In Bend not Break part 4, there was much discussion of multipolar traps, but none in part 5. It seems that multipolar traps trickle down from the global failure of governance. As long as there is no international deterrent to exploiting fossil hydrocarbons, there will be international pressure to do just that. And as long as that international pressure exists, there will be national pressure to do so for all nations that feel international pressure. And as long as national pressure exists, market pressure will continue, keeping us locked in the self-terminating game of exponential growth. Nate and Daniel, can you please give us any hope of how international deterrence could ever come to pass, in order to stop the cascading perverse incentives? Thank you so much for all your research and education!

[@zpettigrew]

1. Think at a Systems level 2. Design/Engineer solutions/responses with long lasting, optimal effects/impacts 3. Design/Engineer response/solution that is/are compatible/synergize with the environment and Biosphere 4. Use Biomimicry as a design tool 5. Design with energy and materials input in mind 6. Design with input/effect/use efficiency in mind - as to out compete the "market". 7. Synergize design systems if possible [think adaptable and modular across all/most/many applications] --- Ideally, this will offer a Suite of tools that can be used/effect many levels in many/most directions. Even if slightly. 8. In totality, keep Precautionary Principle in mind to "check" method/design/invention/intervention. Hypothesis - if adequately applied, separate, independent engineers/designers/actors will hit on similar solutions and solutions that will link up, and synergize with each other. Convergent Evolution. Symbiosis, preferably - Mutualism (look it up) will emerge. I can demonstrate how to do this with simple appliances, and household items (like a table or chair). But the steps apply across any domains/system/complex/structure.

[@CreationTribe]

38:10 Nate, you nailed it. This is exactly why we need to do away with this insanely unnatural subjective medium of valuation exchange and base our economy on spatial, temporal, energetic, and material valuation - subjective sentimentality aside. The single most problematic aspect to our current economic paradigm is the idea that value is subjective. It is NOT!

[@boombot934]

Excellent conversation💭💬🗯 thanks❤🌹🙏 Daniel and Nate👍 🥀🌏🌍🌎🌹

[@alessandromazzi1939]

Great dialogue, where is the link to those set of questions Daniel was suggesting around minute 00:36

[@goodwill_ken]

Do you have any ideas about WHEN the cascading failures will reach mass public effect/awareness?

[@TennesseeJed]

As a layman I'd say they've already started.

[@CitizenK1969]

I would point you towards some of the current problems in the healthcare systems of the U.S. and Canada. Patients in both countries are reporting similar problems driven by resource scarcity: long waits at ERs; scarcity of medications (from chemo drugs to children's Tylenol); shortage of common non-medicinal supplies (common sizes of infusion needles, shunts, etc.); inability to receive care; increasing lack of mental health services; cancers reaching advanced/terminal stages before detected; etc. In the U.S., roughly a third of rural hospitals are in financial distress. In Ontario, more ERs are shutting down for the weekend due to staffing shortages and diverting patients to distant hospitals, which will increase mortality rates for accident victims and cardiac/stroke patients. This is just one social system, but it's a core system -- healthcare -- and it's in distress in the two most advanced countries in North America.

[@goodwill_ken]

@@TennesseeJed if you know about these concepts you really aren't the majority. That's what I'm asking about.

[@goodwill_ken]

@@CitizenK1969 I don't think that's really resource scarcity. I think it's government control of prices and regulations which are making it infeasible to develop local resources.

[@TennesseeJed]

@@goodwill_ken Gah, I figured if a college dropout like me knows a bit about the sixth mass extinction/ end of global industrial civilization then it is pretty much a fact to the academic world. I did make the mistake of reading William Catton Jr's book "Overshoot", but it's an old book. Even older is the report from the Club of Rome called "Limits to Growth". If you had a High School chemistry class you should know that the Laws of Thermodynamics are pretty firm. Humanity is a heat engine burning hundreds of millions of years worth of sunshine in a couple of centuries, so something drastic is going to happen. We can't help ourselves, bless our hearts.

[@tabathamullett5923]

Could somehow implementing what is my understanding of what "democracy" should be or maybe reminding them. Wouldn't democracy mean a respresentative and it's party from all groups at a table working together to find resolves?

[@treefrog3349]

Both of you guys are adept at analyzing out current predicament in great intellectual detail. But simply put, wouldn't it be correct to say that we homo sapiens have totally abandoned the idea of the "Common Good", the well-being of the WHOLE? In earlier primitive times competition between individual tribes is understandable. But, considering Humanity's immense intellectual achievements, we still deny, or ignore the fundamental reality that "life" on Earth is an interwoven, symbiotic system that is totally dependent on the Common Good of the entire Earth.

[@aerobique]

🌏🌍🌎✊

[@rodclark7260]

I have heard you use this term a few times. Lodestones are naturally magnetized pieces of the mineral magnetite. I think you mean millstone, ie impediment Terms are impt! Thanks

[@jjuniper274]

If one would take a human development model like Chickering's 7 Vectors, and optimize education and family to get humans as fast as possible through the model to Vectors 6 & 7, i.e., Developing a personal purpose and Understanding the definition of integrity, could this be a path forward?

[@themillionthings]

Love to see a deep dive into how the rules of a money shape and constrain behavior, how all systems condition us, analysis of current rules, proposals of other rules and how they'd shape and condition us differently in directions we might prefer to the extent that we can foresee those effects, and the suite of social metrics that'd allow us to evaluate the actual effects as they occur so we can tweak the systems. Remzi Bajrami has a recent book Common Planet: A New Game of Life describing a 'Flow' currency vs a circulatory currency and how it would shape human activity differently, changes the meaning of 'profitable', modify our relationship w work etc. Analyses along those lines would be excellent. There is a true sense in which motivations, reactions, feelings, alienation, cultures, ethics are down-stream of the rules of money by which we allocate resources. So I think there is something not fully correct in the notion 'that you can't incent good behavior'. I take the point, it's a delicate thing, but a system can allow resources to flow for the expression of lovely intrinsic motivations, rather than severely curtailing the capacity to act on them.

[@JessieLydia]

There is a wonderful, but easily missed point of tension between responding to symptoms or causes. Choosing one or the other is easiest, but … going back and forth … is FAR more effective and permits the joy of succeeding in steps with one builds on the other’s. Today perhaps the greatest threat is people holding onto frozen purposes, like focusing on curing symptoms to perpetuate the ever-growing cause, a big ‘favorite’. So, the seeming cure that both explains why nature and people often create such smooth working systems by a burst of growth followed by harmonizing the new and old, and why civilization is failing so badly at it, is finding the sensitivity to situations that makes connecting polar conceptions, symptom/cause and others. Any, nature seems to succeed with it, and we clearly seem to need to.

[@tabathamullett5923]

Could voting for political party candidates relative to what the advocate replace voting for the parties themselves?

[@heleen313]

I’m thinking of some people that would be great for you to partner up with: • Eckhart Tolle (universal consciousness) • Bernardo Kastrup (consciousness, PHDs in both philosophy and AI) • Joscha Bach (AI neuroscientist with amazing helicopter view on the world and how it became this way, system thinker)

[@shawnfisher6214]

Here’s a long term solution for vegetable food - produce food at the point of consumption with smart aeroponic farming appliances Consider the conventional farming system and market; from scraping away the biodiversity of the land, laden it with fertilizers and pesticides, machine process, preserve, package, transport all over the world, distribute to stores then to citizens. A complex network that can feed all but throws 40% in the trash Now imagine food grown 10’ from farm to fork, the diversity of crops chosen by families, food production embedded into homes all throughout communities. People growing for themselves and for each other in each locale. Smart tech at small scale to make available the fruits of farming without having to become a farmer. No land, no processing, no chemicals, no transportation, this food will never touch plastic. What would happen if all homes were embedded with the means of food production? I leave it to you Nate, Daniel, the community to poke and prod at this solution in earnest to contribute to creating a sustainable food system our future needs I hope you reconsider covering solutions! technical, practical ones. We need all dreamers on deck to get out there and start building. We simply need to look at the way we do things now, and think of other ways to get the same perceived value

[@zoecohen9071]

Thanks Nate and Daniel. I definitely also strongly feel the desire to be part of a local, national and international community discussing and working on this. I'm in the UK. How do we best connect?

[@googlemechuck4217]

So what type of forest are we roaming, for these solutions

[@joancabezas9039]

What are the institutions to lead these changes? In my opinion, we need to invent a new type of institution to manage the human predicaments, an institution with power to lead the transformations required in the long term. Any suggestions? Egregores?

[@65j20e58w35]

In reference to governmental systems it sounds like what you guys were getting at was a kind of holistic corporatism with class collaboration as an implicit aspect. It's an ancient idea with application in every ideology that's existed. But historically it gets a lot of criticism from liberals for being to collectivist, and from socialists for being to capitalist. Which brings to mind the most corporatist modern societies are the Scandinavian model countries, and China.

[@segasys1339]

How do you cultivate a comfort with uncertainty?

[@MiloMusx]

Daniel, how does music fit in to it?

[@enchemin5652]

Nate and Daniel, please please get in touch with Michael Smith of Regenitech. His project will blow you away! He actually produces electricity (among other things) as a waste product!

[@RevolutionaryThinking]

So how do I join?

[@j.s.c.4355]

At one hour in, I feel like he’s talking about the US Constitution. There’s a very difficult procedure to change it, but the citizenry considers it a sacred document, so in effect, we can not update the Constitution, even when we see it’s problems.

[@mellonglass]

In listening through this, it still seems relevant to ask why education is hooked on stage theory. The human being of interactive honesty still is age in ‘innocents’ asks the most difficult questions, yet the adults always offer solutions that are inconsiderate on so many sensitive levels, namely the violence against nurture and the patriarchal arrogance that develops? Would it be fair to say the predominant language is between adults and not family nurture structures? Will we continue super human education more and forget the responsibility of the intellectual?

[@rarted]

As far as steady state economies go, the one I want to see happen is what they've got in The Shire.

[@zzzaaayyynnn]

How old is Daniel Schmachtenberger? He's so wise.