LEC grand finals WRAP UP / Riot did Dash DIRTY / NEW LEC format incoming? - Summoning Insight S6E35

[@Rayon811]

It's almost 10 year of me listening about format complains on summoning insight.

[@roachdoggjr4648]

It's almost as if it's been shit for 10 years

[@Megaloblocks]

And we love it.

[@ludvighjalmarsson1455]

Its just comfort as this point

[@svendahlgren3443]

@@roachdoggjr4648😅😅😅😅😅😅

[@aydoooo]

#bringbackBo7

[@mattw6152]

Dash was the best part of LCS broadcast team.. and it shows with him being gone

[@hughwoodford]

I don't really agree, the best part is laughing at the teams. The best part is laughing at Nichole, Regi etc. Honestly apart from just being a good host I dont know what Dash brings. He doesn't actually know about league, and certainly doesnt watch other regions and stuff. I think his league knowledge was the absolute worst by some distance out of every single broadcast talent across all of Riot's leagues. Now that's not necessarily the worst thing and he was a good host but I dont think good hosting is going to turn NAs fortunes around, lest we remember that NAs viewership was already seriously tanking in the past couple years even when Dash was there. The COVID virtual "Dome" was the beginning of the end.

[@Jaime_Protein_Cannister]

​@hughwoodford big host energy, thats what he brings , meanwhile the "desk" is full of uptight boomers with cringe takes... and not the good kind of cringe like lec. Case and point Jatt might have 10x the knowledge everyone else has but will never be half the host dash was

[@hughwoodford]

I just dont personally believe hosting has an impact at all on viewership. I dont watch NA cos its a bunch of nobodies going nowhere. Its a retirement home for EU players who arent good enough to EU anymore, which says enough about the state of the league.@@Jaime_Protein_Cannister. Also calling the desk "uptight boomers" has to be the most ridiculous statement they are like 35 years old lol

[@daulosh]

​@@hughwoodforddidn't OP say he was the best part of the broadcast team? Your reply is irrelevant.

[@saintsataniko2116]

Dash replaced by two of the most uncharismatic, unwatchable geeks in Emily and Raz, imaginable. You can hear the audience tuning out in droves in between every match because the "analyst lounge" is such a fiesta of cringe and Silver analysis. No other league is forced to 'diversify" it's cast and ignore whether on air "talent" actually has any talent, but the LCS is constantly crippled by taking on every refugee from another region and ruining its broadcast.

[@chopchop237]

Thorin's mic cutting out in a big rant makes the rant 20 times funnier! Another great episode!

[@silver1407]

says a lot when he makes a 400 dollar mic clip out hahaha

[@johnparker7424]

God I love Thorin, "If there was any one talent on your broadcast that people want to see jump out of a plane it was Gabby Durden." The most brutally true comment I have heard in a long time LMAO

[@quazza13]

Riot missed a great opportunity to have a recurring draft analysis segment with Dardoch called "Just Pick Me Whatever"

[@endodouble6691]

I wonder if Riot told Dash what their actual plans were. I just can’t imagine they would tell him the same BS they fed the public.

[@MichikoHoshi]

Possible that they told him outright he is cut from the production, but they don't want to message that to the fan because it might upset the fan, but I feel like if this happen, someone in the industry would have already leaked it to Thorin or Richard Lewis. It is possible that Riot led Dash to believe that he will still be involve in the League / Riot Games production in some way, then did him dirty by not actually uphold the promise because of cost cutting measure.

[@endodouble6691]

@@MichikoHoshi yeah, but why on earth would Dash still not say anything if they actually fucked him over multiple times? And I can't see Riot risking him going public and making a fuss. Just seems very weird to me.

[@williaminatio3853]

@@endodouble6691 riot they getting better at this game if we are doubting ourselves

[@StoneDeceiver]

dash was fired because he's a straight white man

[@Verlisify]

I would never have guessed the direction the dancer story went

[@Khaled-bs7zc]

Format changes I'd like to see: - No BO1's, switch to single RR BO3, keep "groups" & playoffs the same - Remove the season finals. 2 tiers of trophies is no good. - Replace season finals with a regional qualifier - Add MSI qualifier with Winter winner seeded highly (unless they add a third int'l tournament) - No random week breaks - Spring and Summer playoffs are roadshows (winter too if the budget allows)

[@magnusnonbo4802]

Season finals is basically regional qualifers/seeding. and wdym no 2 tiers of trophies, Having something prestigious to play towards later in the year forces the teams that actually wants to win it to up a notch

[@zym6687]

@@magnusnonbo4802 'Prestigious'

[@PeoplePleaser578]

Bo3's people wont watch so its unlikely they change to Bo3 at any point.

[@philo0]

36:30 my mate went to Beijing Olympics boxing for team GB and in training camp punched one of those ‘punch power’ machines and broke his hand… couldn’t compete

[@lipat97]

I dont think Riot moving towards older advertising isnt that crazy, their fanbase has mostly moved upwards in terms of age bracket now so the levels of sponsorship you can get have probably changed (and presumably there’s less moral ambiguity when your fanbase isnt majorly underage)

[@maeschder]

Gambling and alcohol wouldnt be a big deal, considering its just generic personal vices. Crypto however is practically 100% MLM scams, so that wouldnt be the smartest move. Unless of course they just wanna get in, cash in, and get out. But thats obviously questionable too.

[@lipat97]

@@maeschder Crypto doesnt have the age restrictions that alcohol and gambling sponsors do, so I dont think these moves effect their relationship with crypto sponsors all that much. But for the record, while I think crypto's shady as shit, I think its a leap to go from "This is a scam" to "This is unethical to advertise". In esports, your sponsors are your customers, and in business you generally need something very serious to go down before you start turning your nose up at your highest paying customers

[@og_ktg]

I think Thorin is totally missing the point on the format topic. I dont know anyone who is upset that g2 just won everything. That's already the same as every other split. The problem is that g2 had a chance to miss worlds after winning 2 of 3 splits, and then the final 3 bo5's were pointless. They're for a "trophy", sure, so was the lec summer final that happened a month before that. We already had the domestic trophies. This tournament was really for worlds spots, and they were decided very early. On top of that, they dragged out 6 bo5s over 3 fucking weeks. That's just outrageous. It had nothing to do with g2 winning. Theres not some big anti g2 hater storm brewing.

[@stefankatsarov5806]

About Dash. He also does Age of Empires 2 casting and was at some of the biggest tournaments and did really well. So i guess he will do that for a bit if he cant do league

[@endodouble6691]

Wait professional aoe is still a thing?

[@hardlo7146]

​@@endodouble6691It's bigger than ever. A few years ago it got revived thanks to content creators getting pretty big on KZbin and developer support. They're still releasing expansions for AoE2

[@simonsramcik5610]

@@endodouble6691 yea and its actualy pretty neat. I have barely ever played AOE2 but its fun watch even for newbie whos go no game knowledge.

[@zer0day873]

lmao he can stay there

[@mahatmaniggandhi2898]

wait what tournaments? i actually wanna get into pro aoe 2 sceme

[@glcsander]

How it's possible for Riot to let go such a great talent as Dash, for what I've seen he has always been the team player, in a scene where fans can be brutal if they don't like you, he has received the most praise and recognition from the fan base and was intregral to the broadcast. They rather lose him and further deteriorate the broadcast, instead of paying his value?

[@roachdoggjr4648]

They don't care about the quality of the broadcast clearly. They just want to save money.

[@jdecker7]

He had just won desk host of the year at the esports awards, that level of skill is not something they want associated with LCS :>

[@PeoplePleaser578]

They would have had to pay him more money so they went with the cheap options.

[@StoneDeceiver]

dash was fired because he's a straight white man

[@disturbed1734]

I hate gambling sponsors because I hate the behavior that it promotes, yet I have still enjoyed most of your content despite it. I understand you have to get your bag, and I really don't care since it doesn't directly impact me. I quit smoking weed 6 weeks ago, yet I didn't stop consuming your content because you had a freeze pipe sponsor and it is ultimately my decision to consume your sponsor's product. I'm not grandstanding my morals onto others just because they happen to enjoy different aspects of life that happen to be vices for me, I drop my balls and just enjoy the content that I love from the creators I enjoy. Until you start trying to milk me for all my dollars using subscription based paywalls, I'll keep enjoying your content despite your revenue avenues.

[@TKVermilion]

I'd certainly appreciate it if Thorin can learn to stop interrupting Monte and keep cutting him off everytime they have content together. There were instances where Monte had to keep trying to get started with his point like 3-4 times because Thorin keeps cutting him off as he tries to set up talking about his point.

[@naikyou]

Honestly, the Wunder thing reminded me of MSI 2021 where PSG loaned Doggo from BYG for the entire tournament to play instead of Unified. I do remember the notion of Doggo being regarded as the best adc in the region back then so...yeah. Just a coincidence. Felt weird then, felt weird with Danny/Kaori and also now. I get why but it just seems too potentially abusable.

[@RaKana.21]

I thought Wunder was still under contract with FNC? Then I dont see a Problem with subbing him in. Its not like they got a random player nothing to do with them.

[@endodouble6691]

@@RaKana.21he wasn’t.

[@RaKana.21]

Well.. Thats awkward 😬

[@naikyou]

@@RaKana.21 Was a free agent at that point. There's a special clause (3.1.18 in the rule book) that lets teams temporarily sign new players after the roster lock if Riot deems what the team presents as a good enough reason, like they did there.

[@Nnothingg-]

Its already being abused its not "potentially abusable" if people consistently do it now

[@icefever13]

Kobe also mentioned that Dash was able to get some marvel? fight/stunt coordinators to help with that one fighting skit they did and they used that experience for the oceans 11 skit they used this year lol. Thats what i loosely remember so not sure if i missed a detail

[@nc_aravindan]

This G2 is like 60-70% of 2019 G2. Just a gut feeling thing, no metrics to compare or anything.

[@endodouble6691]

I get what you‘re saying, they don’t stomp in EU the way they did in 2019 and the gap seems much wider than it did after FNC‘s worlds run and G2 winning MSI. Though I‘m almost certain, if we had a time machine and could let 2019 and current G2 play, the new lineup would beat them handily.

[@Solestian]

75% imo

[@Ridghost]

BB doesn't feel as elite as Wunder did. Like when top Asian Top-laners descend, it doesn't feel like he will be able to deal with them very well - I hope I am proven wrong. Yike isn't as good as Jankos was, even though he may be a better fit for the team currently. Caps is not going full Claps mode consistently enough. He is like taravangian from Stormlight with fewer and fewer good days. Mikyx and Hans seem like the only element that could really take it to Asia, and even then it's impossible to put them as the best duo in the world. Maybe you could argue top 5-10.

[@nikhildeodhar143]

I think this G2 might have better co-ordination in team fights though. I started watching League one year after their final run, so I might be wrong. But if you see the highlights of 2019 G2 they seemed to have a more skirmish heavy style. 2020 Worlds G2 though... Their games vs Suning were memorable.

[@milkman2266]

On the topic of Hyperion, I loved the book and apparently Bradley Cooper is a huge fan of it as well and wants to make a movie of it really badly. I don’t know if he wants to direct it, produce it, or play one of the characters, but it’s online somewhere that he said he wants to do a Hyperion movie

[@MVPhurricane]

love you guys for taking so many questions and making such a long show btw. i know you have other shit to do, and i also know that you have a financial interest in engaging the audience in this way bc like you said you want to have consistent, year-round traffic, but i really appreciate how you give us what we want, and i can tell that you love doing it. massive respect.

[@TheScar3cro]

About the Wunder part: Though I really like Wunder as a player and public persona, I don't believe he should've been in the final. You're right, that it hurts competitive integrity. About injuries: I know in other sports, there are clauses against doing potentially harmful stuff in players contracts. Bastian Schweinsteiger (german football legend and one of the best players in recent years) had in his contract, that he couldn't go skiing, even though (or maybe because) he was so good at it, he had to make a choice in his youth between pro skiing and pro football. Fast forward to now: Manuel Neuer, the goalkeeper, who changed the role of this position forever broke his leg while skiing at the end of last year and he still needs to recover and it still remains to be seen what his form may be, when he returns. Pro athletes sometimes involuntarily fuck up their career, because of reckless activities... And I agree with Monte, it would be really funny to have a recording of pros being drunk and punching a punching machine

[@spencerreid9180]

Man Thoorin you really need to stop cutting Monte when ehs talking

[@allbies]

Monte has great patience when Thorin does that but it's seemingly an accepted dynamic theyre used to

[@bojnebojnebojne]

Dash IS the Face of NA League of Legends professionalism to me. He was so obviously the oil that made the entire machinery go so smoothly and professionally with minimum friction. Off script? No problem, Dash make it work and turns it into a better show. You just can't quantify a talent like him.

[@StoneDeceiver]

dash was fired because he's a straight white man

[@Szeksp]

I really like the LEC format. More games from better teams. Always high stakes (except in a last final - which should be re-evaluated).

[@caesarsushi3238]

2/4 finals had no meaning this year lol, high stakes my ass XD

[@Szeksp]

@@caesarsushi3238 stakes are in who qualifies to the bracket. Even bo1 matter a lot. Feels dynamic and tactical. There are stakes, just weak ass pay-offs.

[@williamthacker4749]

the finals were just low stakes because of the GMing this year as they mentioned but teams getting eliminated at each stage of the format for sure generated stakes. What previous format would the bottom 2 teams of the first split end up in the top 4 playoffs of the last split

[@Habeev07]

Not at the expense of awarding 4 titles a fucking year. So fraudulent these short lived titles that really dont mean shit. It means you were simply a patch zerg as Monty says and not actually the BEST over an extended trial which used to be splits lasting several months.

[@Arkanna96]

Always high stakes is not good for players. It means nobody will have time to innovate because they need to only do what they are 100% sure works and will get them the short-term win. I rather watch teams improve and find their strengths over a longer regular season and the have them actually playing well. Let's stop blaming the composition of the teams for how shitty all teams are performing. A lot of teams that ended up being decent in the past years started out slowly and got better over time. Now they're chopping and reforming teams left right and center for short-term gain and lagging even more behind the East than ever.

[@RumandCocaine]

1:58:52 god, i can visualize it, good shit :D

[@boredindividual]

I still don't understand why LCS goes full WWE levels style of production and storylines etc.

[@NotoriousAcko]

The joke is that I have been listening to this for almost 10 years and it never gets old.

[@charliewhite6316]

i want a summoning insight poster to show off on my wall! thanks for all the years of content! all are the G.O.A.T.

[@Muggsy662]

Oscar got injured by punching Humanoid. Why do you think that FNC never shared more info about that it is bcs it is sooo embarrasing.

[@vladcuculea9559]

The bengi and rekkles section was so funny

[@phorcy1877]

I’m surprised they didn’t do the Letigress shout out for blood “BLOOD RUNNNNINGGGG THHHROUGH HIS VEEEEIINNNNS”

[@kaigra77]

I think throin would be more than qualified to replace ender in lec broadcast

[@Greippi10]

Why?

[@Monotheist137]

Making higher age gap is kind of shooting yourself in the foot. I want to see 13 years prodigy winning sports, esports is the greatest soil for that. In sc2 maru shitting on anyone by being 15years old was awesome.

[@c-pw8fc]

The LEC rules regarding subsitutions are garbage. It effectively states that if there's a medical emergency (which is a subjective statement anyway) any of the rules regarding rosters can be waived at the discretion of the league. And there's no rule requiring you to use a pre-agreed substitute - only that you need 1. Teams absolutely should be required to have 1 subsitute per role.

[@andyhuynh2625]

My Suggestions for LEC Format: 1: Winner of Winter Split has to do at least 1 Bo5 to qualify for MSI. If the same team won Winter + Spring, then the team with most points has to do at least 1 Bo5 for MSI. 2: Championship Points ramp up each season. Winter gives the least. Spring gives a bit more. Summer gives the most Championship Points. 3: Merge Summer Playoffs + Season Finals into a single tournament bracket. For #3, they don't have to book a venue twice (Summer Playoffs + Season Finals) So it's cheaper. It's also more hype, because it's a bigger and longer tournament. More buildup to the Finals. More Bo5s. Schedule lines up with other regions. LEC won't do a bullshit break inbetween.

[@Habeev07]

The whole thing has to limit the # of titles won. Its so fraudulent these short lived titles that really dont mean shit. It means you were simply a "patch zerg" as Monty says and not actually the BEST over an extended trial which used to be 2 singular splits lasting several months each. I might accept 3 title a year if they keep it as is but merge summer with the ACTUAL FINALS like you say. 4 titles a year is unacceptable.

[@ultimAvalon]

I completely agree with the replacing of some words, It sounds ridiculous but its actually quite brilliant if you think about it.

[@janos2318]

i kinda disagree with Monte, there isnt really an extra off-season in the new system, because other regions and the ERLs are still in the middle of the spring split when LEC ends winter. You can only make changes if you have an academy team (like fnatic) or free agents (Limit, Abbedagge) or players sitting on the bench (Upset)

[@maniakk1300]

ERL players don't have the same contract limitation iirc, I've seen ERL players get promoted mid-season in the old format like Doss who went from SKP to MSF. They tend to usually be in the academy, yes, and usually fitting in a player mid split is kinda bad, but this format allows teams to make swaps if they feel like they need to. This year, people were shy on early trades, because if TH/XL did their trades earlier, we might see both in season finals. But next year, teams will be more active, especially bottom of the rankings.

[@janos2318]

yeah but you are still limited compared to summer off-season. And think about the ERL teams and the players who are set the objectives for the split like winning their respective regions and EUM and then suddenly a key player leaving in march for an LEC team and then they have to sign a FA for replacement- like fnatic TQ had to go into playoffs with Rhuckz back and a pissrandom top@@maniakk1300

[@joepkippensnuiver2969]

I would love a one off 15 minute zoomer SR episode, maki it happen.

[@del46_60]

Ovilee isn't necessarily my cup of tea, but she appealed to zillennials a lot more than rest of the broadcast. The strip club story killed me btw.

[@Mecrobb]

37:40 just like Monte and thorin have chosen to promote degenerate gambling to kids instead of taking a smaller paycheck themselves.

[@lightinmind]

thanks for the amazing talk about super broad of topics and the depth. Played this stupid game for 10 years and I can’t do it anymore cause I hit 40s. But it is still big part of my life as watching and being excited. Wish there are more talk and podcasts about league and e sports. Thank you. From LCK.

[@nathanaelsallhageriksson1719]

EU had 6 potentially really good teams. And 5 of them bombed.

[@nathanaelsallhageriksson1719]

@@MrDespisedIcon That's honestly just doomer delusion. G2 is the only team from EU who can be relied on to get out of groups.

[@notirt]

I just got to the part about not entertaining zoomers, and then found myself mid laugh say “wait a minute” when they said they weren’t here to entertain 19 year olds, as I, a 19 year old, am laughing with them.

[@minhdinh891]

Honestly I would rather listen and watch than anyone else. Especially Jatt, man that guy can't cast for his life. I remember so many times where his knowledge of the game was sub par and it was so cringe to listen to.

[@Rynyn]

I don't think people stopped watching because Dash wasn't there, but I definitely stopped watching anything outside of the games... He made the in between segments work, and frankly I'm getting to the point where I may not watch the LCS at all next year with Cloud9 getting rid of stratus and I just have less proximity to the game overall.

[@erlendode]

1:31:33 i am sold! thorin please make it happen

[@erlendode]

it never will happen. i am just praying and manefesting

[@stevenjohnson8524]

the lemonade thing made me think of the "Dark Tower" scene where Roland asks what's in the Cola can and the boy answers "sugar".

[@MagusMik]

Damn you’re telling me i thought they removed Dash to move him VCT and they moved him off that!?! Omg man come on.

[@beatsbydr.draven1932]

Riot is so incredibly short sighted. I haven't watched LCS since before the walkout, and after hearing what they did to Dash I never will again. Add me to the list of viewers that dropped off. What a shame. I'd be so willing to pay subscriptions to watch pro League of Legends, but instead they do this bullshit and fire or strong arm some of the best talent in the industry. If you are going to withhold the best talent, then I'll withhold my viewership.

[@whywouldyoucare]

I mean the numbers alone really tell al the story...the day after the stream final G2 vs FNC the LEC stream ha 1 million views....THROUGH AAAALL the 4 games the mid viewer amount was 130 -140 k on youtube ALONE... I never thought i would see these kinds of numbers again. I mean go look up HOW MAN seats there are in the Sud de france arena....its thousands! and that thing was SOLD OUT. I really loved to see the LEC renaissance of this year. It literaly showed the LCS...its NOT normal. You CAN grow...even in this current climate.

[@Habeev07]

LEC needs to change something. The 4 titles awarded this year are so fraudulent. Baby titles*. Its going to skew historical context so hard with players/orgs accumulating titles.

[@alexandernaydenov7539]

2 split formats with full b03 and b05 no b01

[@sneakysunset1765]

@@alexandernaydenov7539 There s not an audience for that. The current format is the best we can get if we want bo3 and bo5 with the current audience numbers.

[@PeoplePleaser578]

@@alexandernaydenov7539 Yeah... the problem is nobody watches it because the games take too long. Who the hell wants to watch a Bo3 between Winter Astralis and Winter XL? Like that's the main issue - You watch LEC broadcast and the viewership massively fluctuates depending on who is playing. So all that happens is people just wont watch certain days that don't include G2 or Fnatic. So viewership will decrease because of it.

[@alexandernaydenov7539]

@@PeoplePleaser578 idgaf who wants to watch or not to as long as chances increasing to win worlds b01 give u no good experience and games can be way too fun or way too clown fest b03 praise you the most entering to b05

[@PeoplePleaser578]

@@alexandernaydenov7539 Bro what are you even talking about - Bo3 literally does nothing to "Increase chances of winning worlds" because 90% of the teams in the league are garbage so teams are not going to learn a damn thing from playing 3 games against bottom tier teams xD What do you think G2 is going to get from playing vs Astralis 6 times a year? xD. Come on... The only way to improve the actual league is if the teams actually improve and the players on lower tier teams actually get better, playing more games against bad teams isn't going to make teams or the region better. As for "IDGAF" well you probably should because reality if the viewership dies, sponsorship dies, the LEC dies and reality is you need to realise that LEC are not going to do a thing if its actively going to tank their viewership xD. Bo3 literally only makes its so instead of 1 absolute Clown fiesta... you have 2/3 clown fiestas.

[@Meander_]

It's a pinnacle of irony hearing Thorin complain about people like Captain Flowers not having a podcast, when he, Raz and Ovilee actually have a podcast.

[@nathanaelsallhageriksson1719]

My wet dream is for G2 to beat JDG in semis, 2018-style, and make finals. (It's a wet dream for a reason)

[@Slashresto]

Am i the only person who wish theyd bring back unofficial tournaments like IEM or IGN etc? King of the hill? Give us some more ways to see some international games like G2 vs T1 or smth! I dont get the point of for example Asian games , why not make it like a worlds tournament but put Korea and China vs Europe and NA , SA etc

[@Peppita_]

Agreed

[@simonsramcik5610]

as EU fan, I only ever watched LCS when Dash was on. With flowers and jatt the only somewhat proffesional casters

[@JPLX99]

goated episode as always , ty for addressing the Dash situation that riot has been hush hush uwu about for so long

[@sigmarito]

thank you LFN for 10 years of me and my bestfriend enjoying the esport content made for 30 yo millenials who were here when SI was frontpage on twitch and Moscow5 was the hot shit !

[@maurienvy]

1:30:17 "Do The Riot Thing" should be the next Spike Lee movie

[@hellsSG]

As someone whos been playing since 2010 and following the esport since 2011, the one thing i need is they need to make macro relevant again. Since 2018, which was an incredible change and ushered in the modern lol, i feel like any team winning is dumb as fuck, pre 2018 atleast the winners had a plan.

[@5eur]

monte looks so happy maybe he smoked the freezepipe

[@Qyr3]

I think its okay if casters make less than 300k as it is quite a lot. One should not forget they are using the players talent to cast. So it is reasonable to me, that they earn more. Because frankly I dont think that the caster have a similar outstanding talent as the players. So they should be payed more each.

[@Ellefsen97]

(Disclaimer: Been a FNC fan for nearly 10 years) I'm perplexed about the Wunder substitution situation. It's obviously bad for competitive integrity that a team can go around the substitution rules and roster submission deadlines, but it's also bad for the tournament that a team loses a player due to an injury, especially since no team have great backups for every position. If a team gets a replacement that is comparable in skill, isn't drastically different in playstyle and also that the injury happened after the roster deadline; Then I'm personally more OK with the situation, even though it's against competitive integrity. My view on if the Wunder substitution is obviously really biased, so I'm gonna refrain from stating if it was okay or not, I'll leave that discussion to people with less bias lol.

[@Greippi10]

What's perplexing about it? I think allowing the sub makes perfect sense in every way, this is exactly the kind of situation where you need some flexibility in the rules. Obviously nobody is trying to get around the rules and competitive integrity is in no way in question.

[@R_Corvos]

Is Last Free Nation considering selling any form of merch?

[@meechow153]

This is a tad late to the party but after hearing Captain Flowers cast unrestricted and with no filter for other regions on his personal stream... Yeah. He would absolutely make bank if he was allowed to co-stream and cast it with anyone he wanted to join him. Flowers just has an energy about him when he isn't LCS casting and it would definitely draw a crowd. You see it a bit on broadcast but it is very tame compared to his streams.

[@TheJodalorn]

I turbo skip every other ad read from all other channels but Thorin is too entertaining 😂

[@bradanater1]

BRING MONTE DASH AND DGON FOR AN LCS SHOW

[@danielfierro6694]

Not dgon

[@SenecaFTW]

1:51:52 Epic MC story

[@capraagricola]

Professional League of Legends teams when they have to use the substitute listed on their roster as a substitute: 🥺

[@arunabprakas6069]

The fact that no one has addressed the legitimacy of Wunder being allowed to participate for Fnatic genuinely does astound me. I'm an LFN fan, but I think I can see moments where you guys are being over the top, and where I would disagree with the tone of your stance, but I am still BAFFLED by the fact that no one else has even addressed this. Not on EUphoria or any stream or anything to my knowledge. As you say, if someone could just tell me why this substitution was allowed and legitimate and totally okay I would be keen to buy it, but the fact that it just happened and now we are talking about their results as if there was no sub at all is actually just jarring and disturbing to me as a long time lec viewer. my 2 cents.

[@gbky8448]

brother if any team lost to a 6 months off Wunder playing Renekton and Ornn they should blame everyone but themselves. Teams should be thankful Oscar was injured because his champion pool versatility and insane mechanics would've made it far easier and harder to prepare for opposing teams in terms of draft and setup

[@DJ1NS4N1TY]

@@gbky8448that’s not the point at all though lol

[@full-timepog6844]

​@@gbky8448this would make sense if wunder played worse than oscar

[@gbky8448]

@@DJ1NS4N1TY you're right i misunderstood

[@PeoplePleaser578]

People have literally talked about this substitution non stop? Like Euphoria they were talking about it, what last week? There is literally no point in people explaining because people don't actually care... they just want to fake outrage because its a team that they don't like that has done it. Which is why you have Thorin and Monte going "Wunder is a god, he completely changed the outcome of this series, he was the best player on the team, they were all garbage before he got there" because they like to be dramatic. When really Wunder in actuality probably did not have a large impact on the outcomes of this series. You want to know why Fnatic were able to do it - Because Oscar legitimately had a broken hand and was unable to play. Riot implemented a 1 sub rule that prevents teams from having multiple subs as well as prevents them from listing them at multiple positions which is why they created the emergency sub rule to begin with. Fnatics only sub was Rekkles - An ADC/Support thus Riot forcing them to play Rekkles in toplane means that Fnatic 1000% lose and the series would not have even been competitive because Fnatic would have been stomped into dirt. There is no competition because Fnatic would have been playing a support player off role in a role he has never played before? Does that seem like that is "Competitive integrity" because Riot locks teams out of having multiple subs? As for bringing in Wunder - Wunder would have been Fnatics sub however refused to play because he wouldn't play on Fnatic TQ so Fnatic were forced to bring in Doxy to field a full roster in EMEA masters or they would have forfeited and been fined for it by Riots own rules as they brought Oscar up into the main roster because they had to. Wunder refusing to play on Fnatics main roster or Fnatic TQ despite him being under contract meant that they had to just sign someone last minute and release him to appease Riots own rules or face financial penalties for not having a full team. You want to look at why this happened - Look at Riots own substitution rule that effectively forces teams to guess who gets injured or underperforms. Effectively meaning that they cannot prepare for things in advance. Especially when coming into the games that literally decide your fate as a team... that's the other issue here - You would effectively be forcing them to play at a significant borderline unwinnable disadvantage in the biggest games of the year for a team, which isn't exactly fair is it?

[@kevindaoust6192]

yes scarcity does not increase the perceived value of something!!! That's why no marketing, publicity campaigns uses scarcity to hype and overvalue things or events.

[@jakuzzzi]

that story about the pickpocket was one of the best stories i have ever heard

[@jakuzzzi]

just when i thought it couldn't get better i hear the pro player club story, so fuckin funny

[@szabel.]

I want to see Larssen on FNC instead of Humanoid, maybe they can bre- maybe Humanoid has an accident, and they need another sub, surely they could also just sub in Larssen w/ the same clause that allowed them to bring in Wunder😂

[@EmenussGOamazing]

Not a bad shout, hell I preferred Nisqy on Fnc

[@yandenditt]

Is Larsen a free agent though?

[@Michael-pr8wl]

Larsen just signed 4 years with koi rip

[@Greippi10]

Why though? Larssen is average at best, kind of like waiting for the "year of the duck".

[@mowchenks]

Watching the viewer questions right now after Aaron Rodgers tore his Achilles in the Bills game...feels bad.

[@Sawyer300100]

I honestly have maybe listened to the NA desk like once or twice sincr Dash has left. But it's just so fucking stale without him. So now I only tune in to co-streams cause why would I want to listen to Jatt being a boring host. I didn't really like co-streams but now that Dash is gone they're just superior products lol

[@MVPhurricane]

i am so glad Thorin caught on to how TSM is so obviously the Cowboys. even when they have good teams, they wind up being shit. their glory days are soooo far behind them, but yet somehow it contributes prestige to the organization. and the owner is an absolute asshat who has wayyyy too much input into how the team operates, and, in fact, intervenes so thoroughly that he winds up overpaying the support staff (GM, Coaches, even Players) and keeping them on extra years because it's like "yeah, GM, you're right, i told you to pick that guy in the draft and he blows-- i can't fire you for that", etc., etc. literally one-for-one comparison.

[@mogyesz9]

2:28:10 He is talking about Shox btw.

[@MrAlexvizz]

Ouch the Rodgers take. Sucks for the Jets

[@soloyoujo]

PLEASEEE do that show with Phreak! It would be FIRE!

[@Mimicry161]

Great video, especially the part about Dash.

[@CodyFoxworthy]

The pit in my stomach when they got to the NFL question jeez

[@Laan_]

It's so fuck up changing rule of age, just continue to hit the young fanbase and keeping them out from renewal of league players

[@ShoorfLonelyLokly]

How can you not know about airplane toilets, if they're in every second movie, if a plane is involved in a movie? Maybe he was too shy to just go the toilet and later lied that he didn't know.

[@FailMachineInc]

I LOVE FREEZE PIPE

[@Bscybfan1996]

that argument of "its more hype if they meet less" is the deadest of all time. Think about the most hype matches and derbys in sport: they all are hype BECAUSE they happen every year, not because its something rare. insane

[@michaelschultz7299]

You guys made me depressed talking about how $250K isn’t a lot when I’m making $70K in NYC

[@kurobara3]

Its not that i think hypocrisy is good but i think doing the bare minimum when you have nothing to lose is better then doing nothing. Not that i have an isuee with alcohol sponsers. More my point being when people have taken a moral stand when its free but caved when it would cost them something, its bad but if you arent willing to do the right thing when it will cost you nothing when will you do it?

[@silver1407]

we've evolved beyond water pipes...

[@bernardinkret8265]

1:23:06 the 5 or 10min videos would get attention

[@MS-vf8ng]

1:56:12 lowkey this sounds like something conclown would have done.

[@herjales9533]

We need more esport stories they are hilarious

[@kaotheold8507]

37:50 The faker injured and doinb substitute example is a fun one, but as far as I know, doinb hates faker and hates T1, so that's never gonna happen

[@arcofokker]

insane into thorin your a wizard with words!

[@1415wictor]

no way im getting NFL spoilers here aswell man holy fuck

[@szabel.]

the joke about the Ted Talk question is Thorin already does this with Thorinquiry 😂

[@bug5654]

Thooorin wrote mean tweets?! Doesn't he know that that's the worst crime of the age?!

[@gf2245]

would be very interesting to see the demographics of last free nation's audience, you guys should do a survey im 22 from Uruguay

[@Littledunc1]

Draven has never been banned against hans sama by an Asian team nor will it ever be.

[@idiosyncraticRyugu]

On the alcohol bit, didn't arab countries also fall under the eame banner or whatever the fuck it was? don't think they're gonna like booze sponserships xD

[@shanespradling2721]

If you can't tell chat loves gabbi WAYYYYY more then Dash 😂

[@rickkincaidjr.7555]

I wonder if Monte feels bad for that massive curse he put on Aaron Rodgers