Lecrae Has a DEEP Convo with Matt Chandler on Fallen Pastors

Over the last few years (and months) the Christian community has been hit hard as several known leaders have fallen. So we think it's time we talk about it....
We know no one better than Matt Chandler (president of Acts 29 & pastor of The Village Church) to bring light to this issue.
We talk about how leaders fall, why they fall, and if "megachurch" is the issue. Matt even sheds light on the situation at his church that nearly cost him everything.
Buckle up, we're headed to the Deep End. 🤿
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Stream "I Still Believe": • Lecrae, for KING & COU...
Chapter Markers
0:00 - Introduction
1:32 - Lecrae's History with Today's Guest, Matt Chandler
4:07 - Matt Chandler's Communication Style
7:50 - Pioneer Preachers and Real Christians
12:57 - Unsatisfied and Falling Away
19:54 - The Reasons for Uncomfortable Vulnerability and Shame
25:17 - What to Say to the Skeptics
26:40 - Download the BSIDE App
27:07 - What to Say to the Skeptics
30:38 - The Pressure of People's Expectations
35:12 - Choosing the Fight, Preaching the Gospel
38:39 - The Why Behind Matt's New Book, The Overcomers
44:27 - Christian Figureheads vs The Everyday Man and Woman
48:18 - Political Expectations on Pastors: What Matt is Doing
54:43 - Transparency and Vulnerability: What Matt Has Learned
1:02:07 - How to Lead: A Message to the Men
1:08:14 - Matt's Thoughts on the Megachurch Model
1:13:16 - What Matt Does in His Free Time
1:15:23 - What Matt Wishes He Had Done Differently
1:16:47 - Wildest Thing Matt has Encountered on a Missions Trip
1:19:50 - The Worst Sermon Matt Has Ever Preached
1:21:24 - How Matt Felt About Being the Go-To Guy
1:23:14 - Conclusion
Sync ID: MB01RNZSWAHMKD4

[@LecraeOfficial]

Are megachurches to blame for fallen pastors? Why or why not? ❓

[@lovelyhearted]

No what makes one fall is not remaining in God enough for him to prune us for workmanship. The mega church and many other churches are being led people who did not or have not remained at the feet of GOD enough.

[@timbridger4681]

No, not really I think, I'd say the lack of dependence on God's word (like everyone else) is severely lacking. And as a result, the proper character in them/us essential to allow God to do his work though them/us is also nonexistent. And the fact that not all are truly called for the ministry.

[@abbasjoy4785]

Part of it, it's hard. Hell literally has a bullseye on their backs, it's easier for the enemy to make them fall or steer them away from the true gospel and compromise.

[@BreakChannelZero]

Dawg, I hope you dragged this guy for all the evil he has done.

[@Bnesi97]

@@lovelyheartedI agree. Yet can be easier said than done at most times. Being pruned by God is painful and often comes with much humiliation and unfair treatment. I can understand why they didn’t want to stay in the fire long , but it’s necessary to be used 💔

[@princessj830]

We are not called to follow humans. We are called to follow Jesus!

[@elanamcghee7817]

That part!!! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽❤❤❤

[@jbjrsdbttdl]

It's important to recognize that while following Jesus is our goal, the actions of church leaders still impact the community and must be held to a high standard.

[@dropz17]

The word pastor means sherpard

[@DrippinginSarcasm]

you're too weak and pathetic to make a stand against the left and their war on children and normal people.

[@princessj830]

@@jbjrsdbttdl Agree!

[@masteringr6714]

I totally disagree that “nobody cares what it says in the Greek”. We recently had a change in pastors (father took a lesser role for his sons to take over) and the sons do more of explaining the Greek, etc. and I mentioned that to folks in my church and that I really like that and literally every person said they love it too. The millennial and younger generations are hungry for that knowledge because it deepens our understanding and connection with the times of the Bible.

[@nildameers3772]

It's important to know the root of words and intent, so much can be lost in translation

[@stetsonscott8209]

Yeah, I was bothered by that comment too. Knowing the tensions in scripture helps, and the Greek empowers people to study themselves. I think the argument that the pastor shouldn't be the only repository of knowledge in the church works opposite to the way Matt intimates here. I do understand what he is trying to say, which I do agree with the spirit of.

[@jimmoore8951]

I'm the exception, the nerd who actually loves doing word studies in the Greek to understand better what the NASB is saying. But I wouldn't get too carried away with that in a sermon when everyone is just waiting for the application part. It's amazing people even sit through a sermon in our age of instant gratification

[@BipolarDistortion]

To your point, I just started a few months ago trying to learn Koine Greek.

[@stopbeingfat1209]

I go to the village, Matt has said in the past that he doesn’t like to use the Greek much because it can intimidate a lot of people, and he doesn’t want to rob people of their confidence in reading whatever translation they have and make them think that they might be thinking they’re missing something by not knowing the Greek. That being said, I think he could utilize it more than he does while not falling into that.

[@dver89]

Passivity is the common denominator where masculinity is absent. Love that. Thank you Pastor Matt!

[@dave-giveusfree-evans1068]

my sympathy goes to the woman he took advantage of.

[@johntobey1558]

Bad Fruit. The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill

[@EmpoweredForPurpose]

Mega churches aren't the blame as much as ego is. Also, the same things happen in smaller churches, they just don't have the notoriety, so you won't hear about it!! Be strong brothers and sisters!

[@jonathanpaul9894]

Wish Tim Keller was alive to have a sit down with lecrae. Would have been 🔥

[@Rubberglass]

Rest in peace, Tim. ❤

[@OnMountMoriah]

They had a conversation 5 years ago that’s on KZbin

[@sdc223]

Been listening to Keller's sermons through Ephesians (on marriage) from 1991 and they are as relevant today as they were then. The guy was a gift from God to the Christian community.

[@nancywells2099]

He was Pastor at my son's church and you can really tell how deeply imbeded in the Word he is. He accepted Christ at age 7 and has read the Word ever since. I learn from him in every conversation

[@Rubberglass]

@@sdc223 Oooohhh. I might have to dig them up.

[@jbjrsdbttdl]

Sometimes, minimizing the problem by emphasizing that it's just a 'small group' of fallen leaders can overlook the broader systemic issues that affect the entire community.

[@BipolarDistortion]

After all, the phrase is, “A few bad apples spoils the whole bunch.”

[@joshrmcgee]

I was pleasantly surprised to see this pop up on my feed. I usually listen to Village Church on my commute to work on Monday mornings. Reading Explicit Gospel in college changed my walk with the Lord. Appreciate you both! ❤️

[@stacy-annsmith7863]

Same

[@cdfree3362]

Great convo. Thank you for the transparency and candor Matt. Thanks for providing a place for Matt to communicate on this subject, Lecrae. As a pastor this blessed me.

[@MeetLuminous]

"I came out the womb loving Jesus" that took me out😂😂😂😂

[@MatthewBDolson]

This was an awesome discussion! Thank you for getting this set up

[@thebetterwordhd]

It is 100% harder to pastor in the south! What Matt said is spot on. The amount people who ride on where they were born, who they know, and how long they have attended church as their "foundation" for faith is insane

[@jussman8861]

Dagggg I’m looking forward to this! Chandler and Chan seemed like they always struggled with the “celebrity pastor” idea and era that they were part of. This should be a great convo!

[@fanatic2003]

Thiiiiiis is a must watch. I love pastor Matt

[@Thewalkhome7]

What an abundance of wisdom and encouragement. For real as a Husband, Father, and Leader in the church this has been such a blessing.

[@SSLFamilyMom]

This was an AMAZING interview. So much wisdom here from a life of faith well-lived. Thank you, gentleman, this was very informative and helpful!

[@jasonjemel2133]

Thanks for this one bro!!

[@theplowman_11]

What a great conversation. Thank you guys.

[@Johnsaechao1]

We can’t blame pastor for the fallen.. we have to blame ourselves for not staying in the word…

[@go2yourself]

Exactly

[@ouranoswealthgroup7042]

We shouldn’t blame the fallen at all. We have all fallen short from the glory of who matters. Stop making men idols on purpose so they don’t have to fall twice - once from a believer’s grace

[@Spirit-Soul-and-Body]

Of course you blame the pastor, show grace after the fact. However we have to call out wrongs

[@jbjrsdbttdl]

Using reductio ad absurdum on your comment “We can’t blame judges for wrongful convictions… we have to blame ourselves for not understanding the law.” “We can’t blame doctors for medical malpractice… we have to blame ourselves for not staying healthy.” “We can’t blame teachers for students failing. we must blame ourselves for not studying enough.” By extending the logic of your statement, it leads to unreasonable and impractical conclusions. Here is a better quote “Stay in the word, but also hold pastors accountable. Both personal faith and responsible leadership are essential.”

[@dahliaherrod4301]

​@@jbjrsdbttdlyou said it better than I ever could

[@chelseafailla9887]

I am very excited for this!!!

[@miquelvillaroel468]

First time seeing this guest and that's maybe because I am a Seventh-Day Adventist but I love him! Really down to earth yet profound🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽 Exceptional breakdown of what it means to be truly masculine, God be praised 🙏🏽

[@chelseafailla9887]

The explanation of growing lion with growing platform was fantastic. Thank you for that

[@amberbrown2076]

This was such a good conversation, full of wisdom!

[@eroksta1]

Really good interview. Keep it up fellas!!!

[@JRod979]

This is a great conversation that is needed more within our space.

[@acissej4400]

Great questions, Lecrae! Great convo.

[@ChristopherMurphy1969]

Great discussion. Really hit on a subject near-and-dear to my heart. The real 'elephant in the auditorium' is seeing and understanding the distinction between fans of Jesus and followers of Jesus, from pulpit to pew. This distinction is the foundational difference between Biblically authentic Christianity and the 'churchianity' masquerade parties being thrown in far too many sanctuaries. Thank you both for discussing this incredibly important subject.

[@jordanmurray1301]

God Used Matt Chandler to lead me to a relationship with Christ. 23 years ago.

[@go2yourself]

This is such a good convo!!!

[@andrewhayward9539]

the 40-42 minute mark hit me hard. I am definitely guilty of sitting out. Thank you Matt, wow.

[@ATownFam24]

Great discussion. Love both of y’all!

[@worshipwondernwarfare]

we fall when we deem greater or give more attention/affection to anything other than Jesus!! He is our calling and He is our reward !! sweet, sweet Lord Jesus!!

[@AmbiguousAnthony]

Crae hitting all the hard topics!!!

[@mr.crayon5355]

Yep! Absolutely incredible as expected. Lecrae have you ever or do you think you will ever bring on a “normal” guest once a month or whatever your schedule allows to hear stories from normal people? Could do a screening of quick questions to see if the content is something you’d want to do a podcast for and screen people for that chance to participate?

[@jdayasmr]

THIS WAS INCREDIBLE

[@arianabruzzese1488]

What an interesting conversation! I love the direction this podcast is taking and Lecrae is a great interviewer

[@abbasjoy4785]

Dude! We're so appreciative of this interview. Can't wait!! I remember praying for him.

[@emanuealmulatu6823]

This was a great listen! God bless you both.

[@janinecalvin6797]

this was an amazing interview!

[@gailmitchell5101]

Sooooo excited!!!

[@keithtownsend5536]

Great interview!

[@AntoniaOkafor]

Love to see you two together!!! Was at The Village for ten years. Forever my teacher. ❤ Saved at his church in 2009 and never been the same. His view on celebrate recovery (recovery) is hard to find outside of his church. Love to see this!

[@K.Roughknuckle]

Curious what his thoughts are on that ? You have a link?

[@jackardale1119]

what is matt's view on celebrate recovery

[@christalp.5503]

I’ve been listening to Pastor Matt for years. So happy to see this interview.

[@anneugene3588]

Amazing interview 🔥

[@betweenthepoints2001]

It is most certainly not the size of the church! Some have stepped in where they were never called to be….I certainly get how that happens and I love the way you both broke that issue down for us! God bless you both …all glory to God!!!

[@kwabenadebrah3213]

Such a great conversation!

[@atilvaid]

Oh my gosh so excited for this👏🏾👏🏾

[@TSpoon823]

This is gold. Thanks for bringing Pastor Matt on for sure.

[@gotfocus100]

Excellent stuff 👏🏾

[@DoreVibe]

Phenomenal conversation, gentlemen. We need Moore oof this for Sure. 👏🏾

[@moneymastery4her54]

I agree neither left or right are for us!

[@taylurwithau]

Not the purge! 🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂 Hilarious! This was a PHENOMENAL interview! Wow. I really enjoyed hearing from Pastor Chandler. The wisdom....just wow. Thanks for having him on.

[@Selahsmum]

I remember loving how Chandler would say "you could be born on a church altar in Texas and that doesnt make you a Christian". Great stuff.

[@tygoldsmith8896]

Great interview. Never heard of this gentleman before and now I'm curious to learn more.

[@RegularHunter]

This is the content I need. Love Matt Chandler

[@mr.crayon5355]

Love this brother! Can’t wait to see the response. Your brother in Christ 🖍️

[@h.k.hiskingdom4961]

This is Our Moment in the entire History of Mankind. The Body is Rising. We are on the offensive now in love to spread the Victory Contained in Christ. All of Us Together~ Everyday People doing Extraordinary Things. Glory!

[@DjMaj]

SOOOO GOOOOOD!

[@PlutoForrest]

I cannot wait. I was contemplating asking you to have him on the show. Thank you for this Lecrae!

[@DaveAsafu]

I have a lot of time for these kind of conversations

[@moshnroll507]

Crae needs to do an interview with someone about his own walk and ties with the world.

[@Sacious1989]

He did

[@shelbydrake6064]

Thank you for this

[@tsims4236]

Phenomenal interview ❤

[@SAMSII82]

Matt Chandler I appreciate your work, I grew up in the church not having a full understanding of the gospel. You being a teaching preacher pastor has clarified much for me.

[@colejohnston8031]

This was really good

[@JayHelms]

God Bless You, Lecrae.

[@carlosalastra226]

Thank you Lord this so good

[@nataliewalters2759]

This was so good! I loved so much hear Matt’s view politically abs it’s not what you would expect . It’s all about Jesus at the end of the day and loving others into the kingdom .

[@K2dakay]

This is so good.

[@callmewitness128]

I really liked this episode thank you Lecrae

[@37YAHWEH]

"I'm gonna let the crickets chirp" Is fire a line

[@worshipprayer8165]

Good evening, my Heavenly Father. I'm sorry that I haven't been able to listen to more of your messages today, but I'm here now. I love you, dear God. Thank you for all your blessings, mercy, love, promises, and miracles for my life and future.

[@yvonneojoh6586]

Amenn! 🙏🏽

[@Selahsmum]

Ohhh Im about to watch this.

[@ninasky7]

One of my favorite pastors ever !!

[@JoseEduardo1594-]

This is the unlikely duo we didn’t know we needed…great conversation

[@amandasmith5344]

I had to send this to my dad who is a small town pastor because he reminds me of Matt so much. This was my favorite interview yet Lecrae! Thank you!

[@shapingtheculturepodcast4999]

Whew! Powerful episode! Lecrae had GREAT questions. Chandler came in with wisdom and vulnerability! Was hooked from beginning to end.

[@IAM2388]

Excellent podcast

[@myrlonortell6667]

there was a time when Pastors interviewed Lecrae....tables have turned.. Really interested in this talk. would be great to get to the bottom of the problem

[@LecraeOfficial]

🙏🏾

[@ShirleyLaTour]

This is a great conversation. I am interested to hear what Pastor will say for those of us that KNOW neither party is for God or the people but feel like we should vote this election.

[@Returnoftheamack]

Best interview does far crae love Matt

[@Vesta0831]

Oh this is about to be good. Texas stand up !

[@LornaNjosh-cc8ns]

Loved it! Thanks a bunch, Crae❤

[@JesseStevenPollom]

Great talk! Just because the left and the right are neither perfectly Godly, doesn’t mean they are both equally Godly. The right is obviously more aligned with God’s ideals.

[@dariahannah8890]

I can’t wait for this episode this week

[@sjg5994]

Clicked fast on this!

[@thewisevirgins8030]

Tnx 4 answer on Megachurches!

[@DavidRobledo22]

Raw...we need more convos like this within the Faith. That war between the flesh and Spirit is real. No one is exempt. Keep fighting the good fight. In Jesus name 🙏

[@Sethmeek86]

Matt is my favorite!

[@zluminati8209]

2 great men chopping it up. Refreshing 🙏🏽 Praise God for brothers like y’all.

[@michellem543]

The saddest part is God moves when we as a corporate body move in one accord. The body picking at its own members (parts) is so tragic. The devil is a liar, and I pray we wake up and realize we do not belong to God because we are perfect and right about anything, we belong simply because we Believe in Jesus. I pray this truth unites us all, irrespective of the faults, flaws and issues we could pick at We have the same Beloved, Jesus. We are His and He is ours, as such we belong to one another, brothers and sisters in Christ. 1 purpose, to love God and each other such that the World will see & know Him. Do it in and amongst Lord 🙏🏾

[@keepclimbing2015]

"The everyday man or woman... has to own the mission" That statement right there is 80% of the church's problem, that we have not embraced this idea. The rot of cultural Christianity has gotten us to the place where the Church has abdicated it's calling to pastors, celebrity Christians and the government.

[@latanyayarbrough5362]

Looking forward to this discussion! I like Lecrae and Matt. Both of them have been a blessing to me in my Christian life.

[@timbridger4681]

Can't wait to hear this one. Also, I feel like aspiring Pastors need to spend a tremendous TIME searching God before considering becoming a man of God. Like, reading the Word of God in solitude with a free heart and spirit. All the greats in the Bible, our Jesus Christ, prophets, even TB Joshua in recent memory, spent years and years being prepared and changed by God's word, before starting their journey. But unfortunately, most Pastors, because they "feel" called, they jump straight into teachings and all thongs related. But they just don't have the CHARACTER for it 😭. That's not how this works. Besides, the apostles, and all the ones that came after them, were chosen for this. It wasn't exactly the first thing they had in mind for their own lives. Peter, believed in Christ, but had to go through many lessons and mistakes and ups and downs before receiving the Holy Spirit. Same thing with his friends at the time. Teaching is a thing of the Spirit. And extremely dangerous if not done right and with God's approval and God's dependance on his word.

[@odomaa1]

I think this is society im general. There are many people who fall under the label of “Christian influencers” because they gave their life to Christ and now they want to share it whenever and however they can. I agree, take time to build character but also gain knowledge with wisdom. We are zealous but sometimes it’s our zeal that makes us as humans miss the mark

[@matladiphala7615]

God qualifies the called. You'll never get to a point where you are super prepared according to "standards"...what's most important is to have a heart after Christ, seek Him daily, but other than that>>30 years in ministry or just 3 years inn...the flesh will continue to do what it does best and there's no boot camp preparation that could qualify you to be in front of thousands. Only Christ was and will forever be the only perfect human. Ours is to rely on the Holy Spirit and answer the call on our lives❤

[@sjg5994]

We must be careful and look at the examples in the Bible...even the life of Christ. We can make excuses that we aren't ready to speak in front if thousands automatically, but He does prepare us with 10, 100, and more before we get there. There is a readiness of character that should be developed before jumping out there and with confirmation of wise godly elders. Also Him qualifying the called is not in the Bible...in any way.

[@majose7787]

TB Joshua was not a man of God, let alone one of the greats. He was a false prophet and a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[@emekajohn-bz7rf]

Have you heard TB Joshua’s story. You think American pastors have scandal. Wait till you hear TB Joshua’s story. The man was an occultist. If you wanna know false prophets TB Joshua was the king of false prophets. Let me not even start.

[@SethMason88]

I had just missed you guys in Yei South Sudan's freedom square by a couple weeks back in 2010.

[@BornagainKim]

@MattChandler That King's table part was so 🔥 I'm doing that for the rest of my life 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾

[@Apol-los]

Crae, you didn’t need to shame him and he didn’t need to treat it like a PR statement. But given what topic was and what he recently went through, why didn’t you ask Matt what in his heart led to and what did he learn from his latest Sabbatical?

[@itscoleperkins]

It’s irrelevant because it was literally the smallest nothing that the media blew out of proportion. The only reason anyone even knew is because of the fantastic ecclesiology of The Village and Matt’s transparency. But the truth is most large church pastors are doing stuff that’s actually immoral all the time but since all of their leaders are yes-men, no one ever finds out.

[@Apol-los]

@@itscoleperkins an emotional affair isn’t immoral? How do you think Matt’s wife thought about that experience? You noticed how I didn’t even get into detail until you tried to minimize it. It took eldership 7 months to discipline him over this. When judgment came, he took it on the chin and on video apologized to his wife & church. He definitely gained my respect for that. So why not talk about it here? I’m not saying he “needed” to go into graphic detail at all here. And understand that Matt has been an encouragement in my faith ever since he’s been a national influence. I would have preferred to have never learned about his dirty laundry and only have been told he was gonna go on a Sabbatical. The American Church has to grow in actually disciplining celebrity pastors. And we need to shut our mouths about what they did when their local circle is disciplining them. Bro, and again, it was the LITERAL topic they were discussing. So no… I’m not gonna echoe Crae when he was praising his “transparency & vulnerability” when it didn’t get displayed. Would have been tough to do. I may have lived out the same behavior on both ends. But my shallow level commentary is that they missed out on a truly powerful moment for the audience by not actually going to “The Deep End”

[@itscoleperkins]

@@Apol-los probably so, but the last thing Lecrae should be talking about is morality lol. It’s no surprise that he wouldn’t want to head in the direction of personal stories.

[@MatthewBDolson]

I was hoping to hear the same but more so details on their process on finding out, handling the situation and what Matt learned or etc to have that available for other churches to use and maybe model on how they can handle a similar situation. I feel he may have given insight to himself when he described about not killing the lion and then God still using that person and it grows as the church grows and then at a certain point it makes it difficult to address

[@gregsimmons7981]

Agree. Sure seemed like an elephant in the room. If only to say why you’re not going to talk about it, at least bring it up.

[@amanze]

They will sit with any sinner and have a dialogue. But the sin of being on the Right is so great for them to tolerate and sit with. Yes, I am talking about Lecrae and Chandler

[@realvonusaur]

Looking forward to the chat bois. 🍵

[@LecraeOfficial]

🤣

[@darrellmitchell4293]

When he said “yall stay away from this ministry called the Village” I know exactly who’s voice he’s referencing 😂

[@Apol-los]

Funny The Village was initially classified as a “cult” by someone in Denton for Crae. But here in Lubbock, there’s a pastor who was a couple years younger in education for the seminary Matt went to. But Matt personally had a sit down meeting with this Lubbock pastor over if a group he was hosting was a cult 😂 Matt agreed it wasn’t a cult. They just got deemed that because they would meet up multiple times a week and cared about holiness. The religious can’t handle “zeal” 😎💪🏻