Legion Imperialis vs Epic 40.000 SCALE COMPARISON: 6mm, 8mm, 10mm, or what?!

[@stahly_taleofpainters]

My full review of the Legions Imperialis box here: taleofpainters.com/2023/11/review-legions-imperialis-boxed-set/

[@panzershock441]

2:35 a camouflaged titan made me laugh harder than it should.

[@craigjones7343]

The worst warlord mini ever. It was metal, ugly, and horrible to put together.

[@danielmcarthur9004]

They definitely did it on purpose, so you can't use any of the old epic units. Which is unfortunate because I could have used the rhinos and landraider.

[@Ragdollcatman001]

Indeed - got like 20 odd Rhinos and a load of Mk1 and Mk3 Land Raiders. Let alone some old Whirlwinds, infantry etc

[@scathezombiestu3156]

Never played Epic, but I remember it from being a kid in the early 90s. But I'm shocked at how BLAND and boring the box cover art is compared to the killer illustration from years ago.

[@watts18269]

It’s the same with all gw’s stuff the last few years. The actual reason I got into warhammer in the mid 90’s was because of the artwork. Now the box art all looks like generic xbox fps sci fi shooter game art.

[@JmccallT]

huge help with all the comparsions, especially the titans, thank you!

[@dvader1293]

thx for the review! well done :) biggest difference (and turnoff) between LI and good old epic: while epic included everybody and everybody's favourite army, with all those different ways how to play them, LI is marines vs marines. red vs blue. .. . nah, I'll happily dust off my orks and eldar and have a blast with epic:armageddon, still ;)

[@Ragdollcatman001]

I have a fair bit from the Space Marine era of Epic as well as the later flavours though I have no idea where my old Thunderhawk from the mid/late 90s has gotten to. Loving the new scale stuff

[@chaoscarl8414]

Quite interesting to see some actual measurements. I would say that 10mm is way too big. At 1/4 of the 40K scale (whatever that is these days), we're looking at something like 7 to 8 mm. Which seems to fit with the humans. Too big...? Too small... Personally, I think it's a fair compromise between size and detail. But if we really wanted to get a feel for the massive battles of the Heresy era, we'd have to look at 3mm. 8mm is just way too big to get a sense of the true scale of these conflicts, let alone realistic ranges for the weapons.

[@damiancaulfield9413]

Any chance for some measurements of the tanks? interested to see what % of the original (28mm 30k) models they are, ie: if its a flat 25%, some other random number or not uniform between vehicles.

[@BroadHobbyProjects]

Marines to top of the head being about 9mm and the Solar Auxilla being about 8mm fits with the scale being 8mm scale. Marines are closer to 8ft ft so being taller than 8mm in this scale makes sense. Thanks for the video & size information.

[@sebastianhovenas272]

How does it make sense exactly? Astartes are supposed to be much larger and taller than most humans, unless these solar auxilia are supposed to be huge then i don't see how this makes sense.

[@BroadHobbyProjects]

@@sebastianhovenas272 I get that. Ideally should be around 10.7mm tall if pretty much 8ft lore wise. But being a bit taller, bulkier is nice to see. GW isn't one for accuracy in the larger scale games, like thicker built near same height guardsmen to Astartes for example. So being about 2mm taller to the backpack at least makes them look more imposing compared to how their larger scale versions are.

[@sebastianhovenas272]

@@BroadHobbyProjects indeed, i just hope that should GW bring back 40k epic that they'll do better with the scaling then, especially with my good 'ol orky boyz

[@101Mant]

These are all firstborn, they aren't 8ft tall.

[@sebastianhovenas272]

@@101Mant sure they can, i've heard it said or mentioned multiple times that space marines typically stand 7 to 8 feet tall, either in or without their power armor

[@Mr_Waffle.]

What scale is Legions Imperialis™? Well that’s easy, it’s Epic Scale™! Available now from your nearest Warhammer™ store! (Great video!)

[@michaelgeorgeduddy6153]

Great video finally answers so many questions!

[@mirage809]

They are so cute! Tiny Warhammer is really neat and personally I’m quite interested in leveraging my Titanicus models for Imperialis. It’s probably the only way I can play Titans without breaking the bank and selling my kidneys. It blows my mind on how much detail they managed to cram into these sculpts.

[@colonelturmeric558]

Or downscale a heresy game using these new models?

[@koshe86]

i love the new scale, i HATE that it is basicly imps vs imps, and no xenos.

[@marcraygun6290]

Is the vehicle size xomparison down to fact that the vehicles were always too small in regular 40k but in epic they can rectify this

[@MsNosis]

I went with 3mm from Vanguard miniatures. I think that scale is even better suited for massive battles with several titans on each side, where individual infantry truly are insignificant.

[@wolfie54321]

Thanks for the review! I think your "zero" on the ruler is a hair off (the gap between 0mm and 1mm is bigger than 1mm to 2mm, so the "human" models are a touch over 7mm to the eyes, and the Marines are a touch over 8mm to the eye, so I'd probably call them roughly 8mm scale to the eye. Even though I'm a fan of Epic in 6mm scale, I will admit 6mm is a touch small for my old eyes to see the models, so 8mm is fine for me, not so much of a scale change that the base sizes need to get bigger, but big enough that the models can have some detail that's visible from a couple of feet away.

[@Adunapheth]

The models are gorgeous, too bad they are hella expensive.

[@telinoz1975]

The new Solar models are 8mm tall. These are humans not in power armour. A space marine is much larger than a normal human being. The scale is 8mm. Pretty simple.

[@stahly_taleofpainters]

But then the vehicles are larger than a 25% increase... maybe the old Epic vehicles were too small?

[@telinoz1975]

@@stahly_taleofpainters yes, they were too small in the old days. Titans even more way off.

[@stingray4567]

@@stahly_taleofpainters The better test would be comparing the new epic tanks to 40k versions. Are the they 1/4 the length of 40k equivalents? If so, then it indicates scale is 7mm or 8mm (depending on if we agree that 40k is 28mm or 32mm).

[@gamesofwarstudio-GWS]

Thanks for this vidéo !!!

[@az3586]

can you do a full demensional measure of all the models? length, width, height? there are alot of 2nd hand models floating around.

[@blecao]

considering that humans are the base i think i would say its 8mm more than 10mm specially when not even giants in powerarmor of more than 2 meters are less than 10mm heigth

[@bradp6452]

Old scale. I am in it for games and the old scale gave you more game for your buck and more battlefield for your table.

[@bradp6452]

I will also like to add that I am sick to f on scale changes. Your 2 companies of space marines Nah, man we made them all a little bigger and change how the units are organized. Every blood bowl team we ever produced, Nah man we are making them all bigger such that those old dwarves look like halflings. Heresy era epic marines, 40k era epic marines, heresy era squat and eldar epic. Nah man, 3 of those forces are not getting rules and the other one is now so tiny and entirely based wrong anyway. F them.

[@stingray4567]

@@bradp6452 Same. Im really sick of GW BS like this.

[@tiedyedbeard3439]

Doesn't his w cooldown go down with a bunch of stacks? It felt like zwag was throwing out w's way slower than he could have

[@mattbrown7759]

How tall are the titans in mm? Please :)

[@arandomlostsoul753]

Thanks for this video and your review on your website, it helps to see what the models look like when they're unpainted.

[@Basil_Ghothickovitch]

The first announcement of LI contained an error: 160mm bases were signed there. I was ready to order two of these textured bases today... But it turned out that it was just 60mm. So I wouldn't wait any longer for the Emperor Titan model.

[@MrElliptific]

Love your channel. For some reason, it doesn't always appear in my feed :(

[@craigjones7343]

Each ‘class’ of mini in the old epic were different scales

[@goforitpainting]

Cool as always 👍

[@Ferox2121]

The new LI tanks are really neat, esp. the Predator and the Leman Russ. Thanks for sharing. I am looking forward to build and paint them. I would use a camoufalge pattern on the Auxilias though since i am no fan of GWs blue-gray / gold studio paintjob.

[@TetsugakuSan]

It’s 8mm scale not 10, as you compare to a normal human, solar auxiliary, which are 8mm. No idea why you’d say 10?

[@stahly_taleofpainters]

Because the tanks are bigger than a 25% increase on the old tanks

[@Thornscale]

@@stahly_taleofpainters But the way you determine the scale is based on the size of a standard human. If a standard human is 8mm, then 8mm is the scale of the range. Whether or not the vehicles are scaled correctly to those humans is something else entirely.

[@andreastucchi6191]

no terminator measures, no like!! XD

[@TheHunch8ack]

This is soooooo useful. Thanks so much. Would it be possible to measure the length of a rhino very accurately? I can then work out all my other vehicles relative to it. Obviously no probs if you don't have time and thanks anyway for your help in this vid. Cheers.

[@stahly_taleofpainters]

30,5mm exactly :)

[@TheHunch8ack]

@@stahly_taleofpainters Cheers, Stahly. I actually picked up one of the freebies from a store this week and it fits pretty much exactly over a 100% Woddish jobbie. Interesting, eh?

[@4_am]

Wait the bolter marines there is huge amout of plastic on the side you never show!!!!!!

[@stahly_taleofpainters]

Yeah true they all have lots of undercuts

[@4_am]

@@stahly_taleofpainters eek! Cheers for this info!

[@aleopardstail]

I doubt this is 10mm, put some of them alongside the 10mm Warmaster figures and you will see what I mean. the fact Marines are meant (now, but not in the past) to be some 8' super soldiers makes this even more apparent next to normal 10mm scale humans who are noticeably taller Nice video though and very useful for the vehicles

[@impguardwarhamer]

given the solar auxilia are 8mm tall the scale of the range is technically 8mm. However, anyone who's ever wanted to compare 40k to other ranges will tell you that term means very little practically speaking when you also have 9 foot tall super soldiers and the smallest infantry transport is the size of a Maus

[@sorceryengine]

Don't mix up those scales so much, mm scale is well defined as the height from ground to eyes of a standard human mini (definitely not a space marine) - so solar auxilia infantry I guess. It's pretty funny how little the scale of old Epic was back then if THE space marines were 6 mm but they did say the scale was incosistent.

[@Jezza_One]

Its 8mm scale same as Titanicus and Aeronautica.

[@marcmiddleton2277]

The New scale is 8mm

[@HeroBiss]

Probably closer to 10mm, but it's hard to say. The problem is that GW uses an absolute scale, and models bases are more important than anything else.

[@dtercs]

Well scall is done from feet to eye level of an average human. So the scale would be 7mm wouldn't it? your measurements show 7mm from the feet to the eyes on the Auxilla and 8mm from feet to eye level for space marines. This is in line with Games Workshops desire to make 3rd party content look out of place with their line. 6mm scale miniatures being 6mm from eye to feet will look a bit small and 8mm scale from eye to feet will look to big. 7mm scall also lines up with their comment of everything being 1/4 the size. Warhammer is supposed to be 28mm heroic, and 1/4 of that is 7mm scale. I could be mistaken but I believe scale is measured from feet to eye level. Regardless the setting isn't my interest, I can see why they did it but not being able to play Necrons or Tyranids leaves me not caring. Also don't have much faith they will support it fully and it will see little growth after the initial burst of players.

[@stingray4567]

The funny thing is, changing the scale like this pushes me MORE towards 3rd party minis or 3d printing

[@dtercs]

@stingray4567 if you have a 3d printer theirs a wealth of 6mm scale warhammer. However, the belief that this new line is 8mm has led to a surge in 8mm scale stl. Now that the measurements are out I can confirm that some of the ones I have are to big. Downscaling 8mm to 7mm is harder than upscaling 6mm to 7mm as everything is so small already. At the end of the day it shouldn't be to big off an issue outside official GW stores and tournaments so long as the footprints similar. Or play epic Armageddon, rules are free, fan supported and you can use the new miniatures without issue.

[@woodandwheels]

Bleibt bei der normalen Grösse. Hier gibt nur Augenkrebs!😂

[@SamSebeli]

They are not miniatures, they are microscopic

[@Fabodroidgaming]

My preferred scale is cheap!

[@DasBilligeAlien]

old Epic Vehicles where often too small and a different scale than thei nfantry. (Plasticscouts where even bigger than normal marines.) Titans where a whole different scale 1/600 for smaller titans and what ever scale for the emperor titan.

[@phillipleathley5833]

Why is it you fail to show any close ups of the Solar Auxilia infantry, is it because they are some of the worst miniatures ever produced by GW. I have seen miniatures that were cast in pewter that are over 20 years old that look better.

[@Mofflin1]

Notice how careful he was not to give a side on view of the marines? I mean the truth is out there now but yeah this was hella sketchy.

[@riggermortisfpv526]

GW and scale ? ROTFL !!!

[@kazama6245]

I prefer 15mm

[@mrgunn2726]

Of course GW can't adhere to an industry standard scale, 3, 6, 10, 15, 25, 28mm, no worries I don't support companies who despise their customers.

[@stevenwestfall7638]

Its not that they can't its that they won't. GW is an asshole of a company.

[@realsnice]

It aligns to AT….

[@PrestonMcgill]

Z-scale is an industry standard, 8mm is pretty much 10mm

[@alsanchez5038]

Funny emotions.

[@rozza3135]

Somebody's grumpy

[@sebastianhovenas272]

Unless the humans of the solar auxilia are huge then gw has once again messed up with the scaling of their models, its honestly a little infuriating that they still haven't fixed the scale between human and astartes, because the difference in heigth should be much greater

[@Jezza_One]

40k rules are always unrealistic as well. An auxilia unit would have to out number a legion one by twenty to one to stand a chance.

[@101Mant]

​@@Jezza_Onethere is no guard in this era, and some of the auxilia are way better equipped and trained than a 40k guardsman,

[@Jezza_One]

@@101Mant I used the term guard because I couldnt spell the other name 😀. Even so reading the HH books the legions absoloutely smash any non legion force so I think my comment still stands. Also in the seige of terra poorly trained and equiped units are deployed by both sides in immense numbers these could be considered as guard.

[@rankcolour8780]

The scale has always been bricked. I don't know if you were around to remember the old LI and then SM and Epic that came after it, but the scale was a hot mess back then as well.

[@Jezza_One]

If we get picky the ranges of the weapons are ridiculous. Compare the massive 6mm modern warfare ranges to 40k and you see what I mean.

[@scepteredisle]

Looks amazing. No one can afford this. So dead on arrival. Well done GW.

[@cerebralparasite9238]

SO INSTEAD OF 6MM, THE SCALE IS PROBABLY AROUND 9MM.