Legions Imperialis: Is it actually… Cheap?

[@nigeljones9215]

The Titans are Warhounds, not Dire Wolves, just a small points difference but just so ya know!

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Whoops! Thanks for the catch!

[@MichaelGThomas]

No a problem @@blackbriargaming5483

[@Phoney72]

I went from not being that interested in this thing a few weeks ago, to buying the core box, two boxes of marines, a box of Kratos, a thunderhawk, a box of solar, some Baneblades a Reaver and the card packs today😂

[@blackbriargaming5483]

ha ha, what a plot twist!

[@shockerck4465]

Which cost you what? $500-600?

[@Phoney72]

@@shockerck4465 curse you got making me face up to my poor financial decisions but, converted from his majesty's great British pound into the money of the colonies that cost me around 420 freedom dollars

[@CyberSammael]

I think that there is a disconnect between what you CAN play this game at, and what GW WANT you to play this game at. The battle report had large armies, with Drop Pods (6 points each and expensive) and tons of troops on the table, but 1500 - 2500 points seem more realistic, especially with the relatively small table sizes.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Definitely. I don't think I'll be playing most of my games at 3000pt.

[@wolfie54321]

Those Warhounds are about 50pts less per model. But the 30% allies + 3 factions in the starter is the killer, yeah, you get about 1600-1700pts in the box, but you can only legally use about 700-800pts in a single Marine army (I think even less for an Auxilia army). You can't use all the allies you get in the starter until well over 3500pt games. Given the 30% allies rule, 3 separate factions in the starter makes for poor value.

[@impguardwarhamer]

On the warhammer plus battle report they explain that there's an optional special rule that lets you take one warhound pack and ignore the 30% rule. It's kinda vague and not fully explained in the video but im presuming its something specifically designed to work around the box sets limitations

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Oooh spicy!

[@wolfie54321]

@@impguardwarhamer Well with the default rules, I don't think you can play a game with the contents of the box (Warhound is worth 330pts, which means you'd need 770pts of either Auxillia OR Marines to take an allied Warhound). So, yeah, I expect there's some special scenarios in the book that let you use the forces that come in the box. The Warhounds are what make this a bad deal IMO, if they'd dropped the Warhounds and put in more tanks, the box would be much more appealing, both because of the allies rule and also because a lot of people interested in LI will already have a bunch of Warhounds from Adeptus Titanicus. Even though I never got into AT, I have a starter set, so I'm not far off 3000pts in Titans already.

[@mushymanUK]

@@impguardwarhamerthey’ve released this as a pdf on Warhammer Community. It’s explicitly a special formation and mission that is designed to be used with ONLY the box contents and nothing else. So it’s not really a solution. It’s definitely preferable to find someone to split the box with, certainly initially.

[@impguardwarhamer]

@@mushymanUK i mean its something of a solution. It means you can play with just the box alone, and when you start expanding its not such a big deal because as your total points goes up so does your 30%

[@bravghede]

Starter box is the cost of one Angron at my flgs.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Seems like a good deal to me!

[@Anuduin]

When 2 Banebanes cost $60cdn, I don't know how this can be considered cheap. If you are happy to spend your money on this, then more power to you.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

GW gonna GW 🤷‍♂️

[@DayMKay]

I dont get it, why people compare the Legio Imperials prices and quality with the 40k stuff ... A way better comparison in my view would be other 10mm or 15mm systems like Flames of War, Field of Glory or Warmaster. What does a army cost you there and what do you get for your bucks? Maybe a idea for your next video? ;)

[@kirbyrawstorne]

I'm going to caveat this by saying I'm using this comment as a way of working out my own thoughts on this and not to be a downer on things: I would say that it being affordable is a relative term. I'm really glad it came out at a lower price than people expected and I'm vaguely intrigued by the concept, as the gameplay itself sounds really fun but I think you said it best when you said 'It's cheap for Games Workshop'. I had a look at the contents of the boxes and was surprised to find that it was higher than expected (10 rhinos for £30 as you said) which was nice, but I also thought '"£30 is a lot for 10 small rectangles of plastic". By contrast, my weekly food bill is £30, and only because I make certain budget choices. I came to the conclusion that there are 3 main ways to look at this from a price point. First is cost for what you actually get - £30 for 10 plastic rectangles. To most non-GW consumers the cost won't make sense. This stuff is not expensive to make, why does it cost so much? Second is the cost for what you get compared to other hobbies - you can get 2-3 good/long video games or 3 books for that price. Why buy this when you can buy other things that go further and also let you play with your friends. Lastly there's the 'how little I can spend to play a game with my friends' argument, which is probably the one that most GW hobbyists use. You can pay a (relatively) little amount and be playing a 'pretty similar to 40k' wargame with your friends. There are other wargames and they may cost less, but GW is more widespread. I guess what niggles at me is that ultimately GW hobbies are either for the committed or the middle class. You either commit to this being your one and only place where you pour your disposable income, or you're well off. Perhaps my issue is with capitalism and the inequality in the world 🤣 Anyway, thank you for coming to my TED talk. As always, great video and I look forward to watching more

[@blackbriargaming5483]

That got real deep 😋

[@kirbyrawstorne]

Sorry@@blackbriargaming5483, I had genuine epiphanies into why I'm like this whilst writing that 😂

[@FarseerB1rdy]

£30 for 2 to 3 good video games? What you buying? I paid £50 for BG3 I think. You must be buying older or indie games. I don't mind paying £24-26 for 10 Rhino's (because you aren't paying RRP). That's a few hours of enjoyment painting and modelling them. Then hours upon hours of enjoyment playing a game with my friends. Which is more interactive than playing with them on the PC. They come round we order food and have a few beers. That's priceless to me.

[@h2835]

@@blackbriargaming5483 Well, back in 2020 before my local independent retailer closed shop for good due to the virus going around, and a new law coming out forcing everyone to close physical shops that were not essential we did some math. The then 25 EUR character models were carefully weighed on a set of fine detail digital scales, and their price calculated per gramm of plastic purchased. As per our calculations (back in 2020) it was actually more expensive than some illegal drugs like Crystal Meth and Weed. Id did not reach the prices of the synthetics like Heroine and Cocaine tough. Another channel made a video about how much it costs to actually buy a 3000 point mainstream army with the GW prices. The price tag was actually as I expected: at least 800 USD in american prices, but more likely around 1000 USD. In EUR the prices are a bit better: it costs 50 USD for a box of tanks, but only 40 EUR. So the price should "only" be in the 650-800 EUR range for a "standard" size army of 3000 points. In my honest opinion: I bought an Elegoo Mars 3 Pro for 155 EUR, a washing and curing station for 120 EUR, and 2 kgs (about 4 lbs) of 8K resin for around 30 EUR/kg (14 EUR/lb ). What I an trying to say here is this: Even if you are new to 3D printing, these prices are high enough to justify buying a 4K resin printer and printing out the army from paid professional alternative STL files. And even then, you will only spend HALF the cost of the GW prices. Time to wake up: a gram of Weed costs between 10-20 pounds in the UK. But a 40K character that has about 1-2 grams of plastic in it costs you MORE? GW prices are seriously too high, and need to go down to be more sane...

[@kirbyrawstorne]

@@FarseerB1rdy Yeah, I'm talking about when games are on sale, which is a regular occurrence, or indie and older games. I too bought BG3 new for £50 but that's rare for me. There's nothing wrong with buying older or indie games - I guess the point I'm making is that one hobby does have budget/discount offerings that all sorts of people can afford, whereas the other doesn't (at least if you don't count things like 3d printing). And yeah, that's great that you get that out of your hobby! I'm not trying to detract from that or say that how you choose to spend is bad. I'm just thinking through the process in a way that people other than you might look at things. Also not sure why you say a game with friends is less interactive? That might just be down to us having two differing opinions, which is fair enough.

[@14DEADSOUL]

Prices are high, but worse for me is the boxes miniature content is so LOW. Feels like there should be double the amount of sprues in these boxes than what we're getting. 4 tiny Kratos tanks for £30? Feels like I should be getting 6-8 of them in there and vice versa. Woulda been better if they did some kind of "Army boxes" like an 'Astartes assault force' that had 10x marines, rhinos and drop pods for £60 rrp. Then an astartes Tank box with 10 preds, 6 Kratos, 2 Falchions £60 (or something like that). Right now there's so little in each box, barely any real hobby enjoyment to get out of these small miniatures for the cost and it gets very expensive if you want to actually field a cohesive/narrative looking force.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

It's interesting that people are applying value so differently with this game than GWs other products. GWs costs have never been about the physical resource cost. Never will be. They're one of the most expensive of any wargaming product, due to their IP. Same situation here. But. As I pointed out in the video. You can put together a force for a few hundred dollars. Yeah, they're small. But in the end, these are expected costs for a wargame. Were people expecting to put together a playable army for $100?

[@Breakingbad_habits]

I think your math is a bit off on the lists, but I agree with the point. I made some sample value $$/pt and you can get to 3K for $500 ok SM and $450 for SA. Show me AOS or 40K armies that are that efficient. But even better you can get to 2K for like $250!! And it’s a good starter list

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Mate. First to admit my maths is LOOSE 😅

[@hotsauce8780]

I don’t need to see your work, but what are you basing this off of? Is there a points list out I can peruse?

[@Breakingbad_habits]

@@hotsauce8780not sure how to send it to you through this platform, let me know and I’ll shoot you the deets ;) full pts leaked in Sept though, and then detailed SA rules screenshots leaked a month ago which confirmed earlier leaks.

[@scepteredisle]

This is so silly. GW SET THE POINTS. GW create the game and dictate how many points for an "average army". They could have easily said 5000 is the average game size. Or 500 points. It boggles the mind why people are making the silly-billy error of trying to match points. Blood Bowl you only need a single team to get into the game and play it. So if GW charged £100 for a single team.. would that be OK? I mean, that "SHOULD BE" given the logic people are displaying here: after all that's all you need to play the game! That's a full list!

[@Edithae]

If ever there was a game ripe for 3rd party 3D printing, its this game. This might be the game that finally gets me into 3D printing. There are people at my club who have been printing Epic scale miniatures for the last year in anticipation of this release.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

You're not wrong. Super cheap in that case!

[@wolfie54321]

@@blackbriargaming5483 3D printed Marines looks quite a bit nicer than the new GW plastic ones also, because 3D prints don't have the same issues with undercuts. The GW models only look nice from "the golden angle", rotate them round and they have ugly blobs of excess plastic on them. The plastic tanks look sweet though, even if I don't get any infantry or the boxed set, I'll grab some tanks to add to my games of 1997 edition Epic 40k.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

@@wolfie54321 I'm seeing this! They managed to hide that pretty well 😅

[@yossarianreborn2904]

Do it! I bought a 3D printer when they announced the release. I got the files for ALL the 40k factions, and have already printed 2 full space marine armies, a chaos army and all the scenery I could need. The quality and detail is unreal.

[@bravghede]

Agree - especially for terrain, I think. Personally will probs mostly be playing at flgs so won’t have to worry about buying any, but it seems like with the garrison rules that buildings are integral to the game.

[@XX-jn8co]

I don't think the intro box selling out is a good measure of actual game popularity, that's just people being inveterate hypebeasts. I'd be interested to take a look in 6-12 months and see if th game's still getting played then, that'd be a better idea of actual popularity and whether the game sticks the landing than just whether some more people shove a few boxes into their pile of shame

[@jacket2848]

7 months on and the game is on life support 😬 would be surprising if this game goes past the 2 year mark considering how much money they've likely lost

[@thesavmaster]

I know there's that rule that something like no more than 30% of your army can be made up of a second faction. But what if you just . . . ignored that rule? Would it affect the balance of the game? I guess I'll find out soon, I am at least getting the box set.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

For casual games (99% of games), do what makes you happy! 😊

[@Corusame]

I do really like the new scale and how detailed the mini's look. I just wish it was set in W40K so we could have other races. Playing a huge Ork or Tyranid army would be fantastic

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

If Orks were in Legion Imperialis, maybe it would give the Stompa to finally not suck.

[@alandoyle3340]

We can't even buy it in Australia, the page doesnt even exist. I'll be 3D printing + printing a rulebook scan for $150au

[@Ispy10101]

I watched a pretty thorough breakdown, and they were saying 3k points was about $1k us for loyalist and $850 us for Heresy. Not sure what your average point level game would be though.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

I reckon they've got it wrong. As long as you're getting some Titans and big tanks in there. That cost comes WAYA down. An all infantry force... sure, maybe.

[@hotsauce8780]

That list is inaccurate as it assumes your points value is as conservative and spread out. If you get more beefy stuff like a warlord or baneblades it could go way down

[@macdmacd3358]

The 850-1000 price calculations are based on the armies used in the WD battle report, but those armies are far from typical and way more expensive than that of a typical player. They use a lot of detachments that don’t make full use of what you would get in a box. This means that you’d need far more boxes to get to 3000 points.

[@hotsauce8780]

@@macdmacd3358 so basically the cost estimate came from low points efficiency? That’s what I assumed That’s good to hear. I mean 40K there is no army that will get you 3k points for 1000 or less.

[@Ispy10101]

@@macdmacd3358 thats good for us )

[@Jezza_One]

We shall see. I cant see how so many content makers are so ridiculously wrong on the pricing for a legal 3000 point army.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Cause they love the drama? 😅

[@Jezza_One]

@@blackbriargaming5483 Am I correct that you said you didnt have the rulebook maybe there is something you are missing.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

@@Jezza_One almost definitely! But looking at the points from the white dwarf, looking at the cost, I may be £50 off, but there's no way I'm £800 off. It comes down to being sensible about how you build a force if you're looking to keep costs down.

[@Jezza_One]

@@blackbriargaming5483 If I could legally use my titanicus forces I could probably field 10,000 points from a starter box 😁.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

@jeremyboughtono2 I'm sure no one will have any issue with people running all titan forces in casual games 😁

[@BrooksSligh]

Were I to start LI I'd be hoping that Astartes aircraft would be well worth it because I've already got boxes of AI Xiphons & Fire Raptors so I'd be saving a bit of cash there at least.

[@theserpentlodge3723]

Where is the first battle image from with the big buildings? The terrain looks dope!

[@blackbriargaming5483]

That's from the new Warhammer World display. Would LOVE to see it in person one day.

[@marcmiddleton2277]

I just hope we get boxes to get terminators/heavy weapons/special weapons/assualt/breachers with decent amounts. Just 2 of special stuff in a full unit box is alot of boxes to build a terminator force 😂 I feel like the Solar Auxiliary needs the big artillary carriages for flavor I also hope if they do Primarchs they have them with legion special units.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Yeah it'll be interesting to see how they release the infantry! Though I'd happily buy an extra couple of the Astartes infantry boxes. Almost seems like a must if you're not already doing some swapping.

[@marcmiddleton2277]

@blackbriargaming5483 I got 2 starters to make 2 legions for now, I'll add stuff as time goes.

[@wolfie54321]

It's not expensive "for a GW game", but that's a pretty low bar (or high bar depending on how you look at it I guess!). The only GW games I collect any more are the specialist games that are all a lot cheaper (Aeronautica, Blood Bowl, Kill Team).

[@blackbriargaming5483]

I mean. It's not a skirmish game...

[@MichaelGThomas]

Those aren’t dire wolf titans. Dire wolf has the extra cannon up top. I believe the rest of the units work out to about 300 points per side.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Nope. That's just not right. We have the leaked points. And it's about 500 per side. As I said... in the video...

[@TheToxicP]

Was watching another youtube which stated there is 442 pts. worth of Space Marines and 590 pts. of Solar Aux. in the starter box. This was predominately due to the Solar Aux. tanks (Malcadors) being nearly super heavies & having higher pt. values then the Sicarans. The warhounds were 330 pts. each, so technically they wouldn't be legal to use for either SM or Solar Aux at that point level. Why they included them in a starter box for 2 players to play a game with - I don't know. 2 cerastus or perhaps a regular box of 3 Titans - with 2 going to SMs would have been better.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Yeah nice. That makes sense. Thanks!

[@drguineapig8755]

I got the starter box, a pack of rhinos, an Astartes infantry box(I’m gonna buy another later), and a Reaver. At some point I am also planning to get a pack of knights.

[@USALibertarian]

You don't even know what is required to be playable. So no, it's not cheap. Never ever use the words cheap and Games Workshop. OBVIOUSLY a one fourth scale version of 40K should be less expensive. But the fact that the two can be compared at all is hilarious.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

So outraged you commented twice? Lol. Take a breath buddy! Roll some dice and have fun. On the other hand, comments are great for the exposure so keep 'em coming! :D

[@bradp6452]

Comparing GW prices with other GW prices especially for hero models is straw man. These are duplicate sprue boxes. They are like termaguants which are now 10 for 50 but each of those is bigger than those rhinos. If you go outside GW these type of boxes which are just multiple if the same sprue are like 20 or more 28 mm models for 40 dollars or less. If you look at the box set which is the only reasonable way to start, you do noy enough points in either core faction to use the warhounds legally. For the marines you do not have enough model options to even legally field both your tank units it seems according to Ash who has the most detailed discussions on youtube. If you do not have someone to trade half a box to it will be quite a few box purchases. My guess is you are up at 400 dollars to get to about 1250-1500 points with any flex once you spend money to have another infantry box which is essentially a must buy to use the assault marines or terminators well. Then Rhinos and likely cards as each formation and detachment and unit has special rules to keep track off. Plus you likely need buildings so infantry holdimg buildings is a core game element. compare the box contents to my first edition of space marine which had 48 tanks, and 64 stands of infantry plus 14 buildings and data cards.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Probably don't compare it to your first box of epic space marines from 30 years ago... 😅

[@bradp6452]

@@blackbriargaming5483 I could cite the 20 Falcons plus 40 stands eldar booster box or 300 hundred assorted squats in that booster. The real issue is that starter box does not really provide a legal force which can well utilize the contents without buying more stuff right at the start. The warhounds are like a poison pill as if you are trying to make one force out of the box the warhounds and the other side force both fall under the same 30% limit. To make it work you pretty much need a friend to both by a box and trade but then as a team you are into a game for 400 dollars that you have never even played and that no one has really ever played. I see it very likely that many people are going to find themselves several hundred dollars invested into a game that they do not like. It has lots of tactical options but I think that is going to make it slow as you have many decisions to make in each phase between assigning orders and determining activation order. I watched a playthrough for essentially 300 point forces and it took like an hour. Tons of people showing off the models on youtube but very few games shown. Very little discussion of how the rules vary from the 4 previous editions of the game (not to mention the NET verisons).

[@FarseerB1rdy]

​@@bradp6452 don't play 3k games then. There's no need to stick to what GW recommend. I've watched the AngryJoe batrep and they were using around 800 points and it took an hour. That's for their first ever game. So nowhere near the 300pts for an hour you state. Infact I've watched three batreps and they all used more than 300 and took roughly the same time. I paid £96 for the starter box from a third party seller. That'll let me and a friend get a taste of the game mechanics for not a great deal of dosh (for me anyway, and I'm not rich)

[@bradp6452]

@@FarseerB1rdy Angry Joe's is not a live report. It looks like it but if you watch their minicams on the players you can see during many of the back and forth cuts on the big cam they are in different positions in the little cameras.

[@FarseerB1rdy]

@@bradp6452 I've watched the Battle Bunnies one too. Pretty sure that's live? Either way it doesn't look particularly hard to get through orders and shooting. Maybe for complete newbies but that's any game.

[@jamiemoresco3885]

We need to remember that the GW police don't exist. Agree on a point limit for your titans you and your opponent want to bring , then agree on a point limit for the Titans' "escorts " you want to bring. Then just throw dice and have fun...

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Love it!

[@Colonel-Sigma]

Most alternate sources have the starter box at $150-170 in the US. With how many bases of units you get I'd say that's pretty damn good considering gw's track record, in fact I'd even dare to say that opproaching reasonable. We know full well GW charges by the sprue, and very rarely by the points cost (characters excluded of course) so $50 ($42 from third parties) is expected for an infantry box of space marines. What surprises me is that they managed to fit over 100 individuals on those sprues. The tanks are pretty damn pricey, that's true. But the infantry and warhounds are cheap on their own. This starter box is an absolute steal as far as I'm confirmed. Best WY to add tanks to your force because they're effectively free at that point. Also if you really want to save money and you play with friends, just do what I do and ignore the dumbass 30% rule for titans and knights. I've got a whole damn titan legio baby, you better bet I'm walking out with my moderati instead of slummin' it with the marine swarm bros 😂

[@wildkatze69]

I just can't resist. And yes 1000 to 2000 point games will be popular to start and build from there. Where you located btw? I'm in Melbourne.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Up in Canberra 😊

[@HandofBlake]

Not going to lie, may have bought more then I need lol. Sold out here in Canada too. Purchased it all from my LGS and some other independents on-line.

[@tjsmith1981]

Don't forget to add the old Australian Tax 😢

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Yeah. I'm trying something different this time. If it works I'll do a video about it...

[@kharnifex]

Monster island tax is incredible, two boxes of flyers is like 150aud+. Printer go brrrr

[@doc_sav]

I don't understand having a core box for a game that doesn't allow you to play said game.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

That's exactly what the core box allows you to do. With two small armies. Much like almost every Games Workshop core box...

[@pudgylittlehamster]

A 3d printer is even better.

[@douchenukem8235]

I wouldent recomend bying a 3000p force with whats currently available. You will probably just end upp with a lot you wont use when the expansions come out. Just go to 1500p and wait for the Land raiders, spartans, bikes etc comes out.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Great advice! You're very right. Was just working with that I had at hand 🙃

[@stingray4567]

Ive loved Epic for years but this is a hard pass for me; They changed the scale, its 30k and not 40k & the prices are obscene

[@Gestosmortum]

The box comes with regular warhounds

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Ta! So yeah. A few less points? Maybe 100 or so?

[@amroth_painting8319]

No it is not cheap, it is however not more expensive to play a game than games workshops other systems. Purchasing the starter box gets you quite a discount and a decent starting point. Buy some rhinos, some more marine infantry and some kratos or maybe more sicarans/preds and your good.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

So the title is a bit of a go at the horde of creators out there saying it'll cost $1000+ to put a 3000pt force together. Which just isn't true 😁

[@amroth_painting8319]

@@blackbriargaming5483 oh yea I get the point and totally agree with the video, it is just a bit mental that so many people are up in arms when sure cheap isn’t the word but affordable compared to GWs other systems is.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

@@amroth_painting8319 outrage keeps the world turning 😋

[@davidwasilewski]

6 foot by 9 foot city scape table here we come! The cost? A cool, crisp £1000 😱🤪

[@blackbriargaming5483]

But imagine how good it would look...

[@davidwasilewski]

@@blackbriargaming5483 oh yes! By getting friends to order tiles for me (giving them cash), I’ve got 9 sets of the city tiles landing in a fortnight, 4 ruin sets and 2 of the big city collection sets (can’t remember their name). The only down side is that it’s going to take me about a year to build and paint it all!!

[@davidwasilewski]

@@blackbriargaming5483here I am, 10 months later. I’ve got 10 of the sector civitas imperialis big boxed sets, 6 ruin sets and 4 industrial sets built and 90% painted. Next step is to varnish them all and put an oil wash on them. Then it’ll be on to the 9 sets of city floor tiles…. Total cost so far around 2k.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

@@davidwasilewski amazing effort!!!

[@atomicsquid3345]

Reserved one copy.....will get another one from Amazon......still excited. I have set aside $500 usd for my Night Lords. Even if i never get a game in. It is still worth it.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

They're just so much fun to paint!

[@nicholaswalker4045]

I think its expensive for what you get. Great models and hopefully fun to play but very pricy for a handful of tiny models.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

I assure you you're getting way more physical plastic in four Kratos than you are in a single fancy space marine 🤔

[@benjaminbrenner745]

Thank you

[@ErgonomicChair]

I saw a rundown recently and it's an $800-1000 for 3000 points which seems to be the size it's meant for... pretty expensive.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Did you watch the video...? 😅

[@CaptinCrofty]

With that back fill it better be cheap!😂

[@escapo6895]

There's a funny thing about tabletop wargamers, where they want the bulk weight of a product to define its value, as if the most important factor when deciding which miniature to buy is the amount of plastic it contains. It seems like a lot of the negativity around LI's cost has to do with the difference between this perceived value and a more realistic appraisal of what you are getting in the box. Tiny marines are tiny, therefore some folks want them to cost pennies and anything else is a ripoff.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

But even if it's just on the plastic. Four kratos have more materials than a fancy space marine 😁

[@escapo6895]

@@blackbriargaming5483 They're chunky models! The increase in scale when they launched new AT was a great move. I think some folks who haven't built and AT or AI models will be quite surprised when they first see the new Epic scale on the table.

[@impguardwarhamer]

certainly in the UK this really isn't much different in price to something like Flames of War

[@markkelly9621]

I'm not so sure. You can get five 15mm tanks (inc Tiger tanks) in FoW for £40. That's a fieldable platoon which will make a chunk of your whole force. Those four Kratos tanks in a box are only 50p cheaper per tank. Plus although you can field a unit of four tanks, I would say you really need six in a unit to make it viable. So, that means you need two boxes of tanks (£60) to field one unit. And that's just a small part of the army.

[@impguardwarhamer]

@@markkelly9621 'you need 6 to make it viable' Bro what do you mean viable, how do you decide if somethings meta or not when none of us have even opened the rulebook yet lmao

[@scepteredisle]

I thought that was a fair comment but then i realised Flames of War is 15mm, whilst Legion Epic is eh 6-8mm? ish? Though I guess a Kratos might be the same size as a generic Flames of War tank? Flames of War is quite expensive granted.

[@markkelly9621]

@@impguardwarhamer Actually, I will half stand corrected as I mis-remembered the minimum number of tanks in a unit. But they have already released details of the unit size and cost. The minimum number is 2 which is 150 points. If you only have one extra tank it is 60 points. If you decide to add two extra tanks it is 110 points. If you add four extra tanks to make a total of six then it is 200 points. There is a mechanic in the game where units have morale tests if they go down to 50% so I don't think anyone would use a squadron of just 2 tanks. It would have been better if they had realised a box of six for £40 in my opinion.

[@impguardwarhamer]

@@scepteredisle the problem is '8mm'' doesn't tell us much until we have the models in our hands, since 40k tanks are so big.

[@SteelStorm33]

the amount of plastic you get for the money is quite aweful. you cant compare ridicolously overpriced characters with these boxes. i want to see 10 mkiii marines next to a 30 money box for comparison. i will wait, i quite like epic and this sounds nice. my greatest meh point is thats horus heresy, it has titans we never field in hh, but everything else i already have. i also think the start box is poorly designed, in bfg we had two fleets pretty balanced ready to go, in legions we have two titans and no other weapons which are designed to harm them, the auxilia force doesnt seem to be on par with the marines aswell. it seems to be just the marines with two warhounds or the guard with two warhounds, one part will be wasted for most.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

The box definitely assumes you're either collecting two factions or swapping with a mate/online buyer. I get why they've done it. I'm not mad about it.

[@hayhay2640]

i mean 75$ for a rule book and a couple bottles of resin can solve the problem

[@goforitpainting]

Cool

[@blecao]

Honestly i disagree even if we consider a more normal 2k points objective instead of the 3k gw proposes most of the individual boxex wich we will need that are properly of the legion imperialis game arent that good point wise Solar auxilia infantry box is a good one at 7 points per € wich is quite better than a custodes box for 40k but things like the tank boxes are at 4 points per € and some like the rino are at an awfull 2.5 points per € The boxex that can only be used in legion imperialis arent really that cheap per point even at a 2k game (if we talk about a 3k game wich gw proposes they are worst that a lot of 40k box sets) The main redeming factor is adeptus titanicus prices, they where of its own game so you have great deals on some things like the questoris knigths being an awesome 15 points per €, so its not an easy awnser, the gam being cheao gets heavily carried by the 30% of titans and knigths you can bring due to having the adeptus titanicus prices

[@tabletoppainter7390]

its way more expensive than it should be

[@blackbriargaming5483]

How expensive should it be?

[@superpatatine4415]

I don't quite understand this "controversy". What stops people from initially playing with all the figures they want? This should only represent a small violation of the 30% rules. The LI competitions are not for now... Same, there is no obligation to play absolutely with 3000 pts from the first day, it's not a race. Subsequently, players will be able to gradually integrate more units for their main faction depending on the releases.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

People love to be outraged. The only thing that stops them are them.

[@tabletoppainter7390]

no it is not cheap at all it is expensive as hell

[@ashlevrier]

100 for 4 bases of terminators

[@captainferrite]

Of course it's cheap, for only the price of the starter you can get a Mars 3 4k and a few kg of resin!

[@Hogun13]

No, nothing from GW is cheap. We all know prices will go up. Plus we all know, youll be buying extra than just the core box, to really play a good game which all adds up. So again, no its not going to be cheap

[@MrPaxy69]

I’m just devastated at the horrid casts. I want to return my boxes and just print the infantry. It’s so bad. I hate it

[@blackbriargaming5483]

It'll be interesting to see them in person...

[@Kharn-bk6en]

Don’t really care it’s one of my hobby’s il take it for what it is my others are more expensive

[@ashlevrier]

now that we can see the prices maybe you should redo the video.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

You mean the points...? Did you crunch them? Yes, not 3000pt. The total in the video still comes to about 2300pt. Plenty of ways to get the extra 700pt. But let's be simple and say it's three more boxes of Kratos at £72. Still very affordable for a GW miniatures game. Not that you can actually buy the stock right now. But that's a separate issue... I also don't recommend collecting towards 3000pt to begin with 😊

[@ashlevrier]

@blackbriargaming5483 the points on the box is like 222 for marines and 219 for the aux. Bringing the titans is not legal as they have to be 30% of your force. This means you need over a 1000 of aux or marine. The other problems of the box is legally the marine player cannot bring both tank units. Why GW did this is beyond me. Also the game is not cheep. 100 for a unit of terminators. That beyond anything else. You need a lot of stuff to get 3000 points. The game also doesn't seam to work at below that from the games I have played and seen.

[@ashlevrier]

@blackbriargaming5483 the titans are both 330 in cost. Not sure how you got to 2300 points in the box

[@BeepBoop2221]

The rules review put me off.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Really? I think the game mechanics look really solid. Can you explain why? 😊

[@BeepBoop2221]

@blackbriargaming5483 from what I read on the goonhamner review and the starter being 900 points with am expected game size of 3000 plus. Some of the legions seem better than others. I'm still burned from aeronaughtica and buying a xenos set. I just worry the game will get abandoned.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

@BeepBoop2221 so you can run a 1500pt force from the starter. You can run more if you're playing casual games and ignore the 30% rule. 3000pt was simply the game size in the white dwarf, no need to run that many points in your games or in local events. Only the Space Wolves seem lacklustre. But varying faction strength is hardly a unique problem 😅 I think a lot of people are negatively spiralling on this game. And I think a lot of content creators are fueling this for their own purposes.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

@BeepBoop2221 it will one day start to receive diminished support. Probably in three years. That's the common life cycle of all GW specialist games. Look at Necromunda to get an idea on ongoing support. Aeronautica was a niche case of total abandonment. But is also totally still playable for those that wish to. GW doesn't determine how you get to play your games 😊

[@USALibertarian]

So you can't even use both sides of the box. No, it is not cheap.

[@EddieSezPhukYu]

not cheaper than a printer lol

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Next video - 3D printers are cheaper than buying GW miniatures 😋

[@AdaptiveCaesar]

This is another expensive game I lost my interest

[@shockerck4465]

Roflmao. Seriously? Cheap? Nothing GW related is cheap.