Lego vs HAbricks Lawsuit Explained

Lego vs HAbricks Lawsuit Explained
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#lego #lawsuit #habricks

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

My website for LED Lights, Instructions, Stickers, and more. bevinsbricks.com/ Dont forget to use offer code bevinsbricks for 10% off your order !

[@jeroenverzijl8596]

i'm not a train guy

[@BestShifty]

Hey, greetings from Germany. Over here in the German speaking community Lego has been running amok with unjust lawsuits and cease and desist cases for quite a while now. Years ago they sent a cease and desist letter to a popular Lego youtuber/reviewer (Held der Steine) that was also a Lego exclusive store owner at the time - simply for featuring a brick in his company logo. Note that Lego does not own the rights to the bricks, they only own the rights to their logo and what sets Lego bricks apart from other bricks is that their logo is printed on top of the nubs (or whatever you call them in English). That was not the case with his company logo but Lego tried to sue anyways. The guy complied but took this as a sign to branch out and now no longer sells exclusively lego products but has since become one of the biggest advocats of legal lego competitor products like Xingbao, Cobi or Cada in our community. Lego then sent him another cease and desist with video takedown requests for youtube were he called non Lego pieces Lego. Lego did this to protect their brand as they were fighting a lawsuit at the time that could have caused them to lose their brand. When a name is so widespread and in its usage becomes a synonym for the thing itself like Lego is, no one calls it building bricks, there´s a chance for you to lose that brand name protection - but the judge argued that this was not the case and so Lego kept their brand identity (lol, I´ve never seen such an obvious case of corruption before as its obviously that everbody and their grandmother calls it Lego even if its not). We´ve then had several cases of Lego telling the customs office to confiscate entire shipping containers full of competior products due to "copy right infringement". Lego does not have to prove that there is a legal case here, the blamed party needs to prove that they´re inocent. And these containers usualy belong to small businesses that lack the moneny to go against this in a long drawn out legal fight and a lot of these businesses went defunct because of this. Practices like these combined with their greedy price icnreases and substandard quality are the reason why Lego has lost a lot of support from the community over the past years.

[@JoducusKwak]

i was about to post something like this but you have beaten me to it

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

That is rediculous that they are allowed to do that. I know as a small business owner having something like this happen would be devastation.

[@Nikioko]

@@BevinsBricksWorld Lego tries to push competitors off the market with lawsuits. Not that the law is on their side, but they have more money and thus the longer breath to walk through all the instances. The competitors often give up because the financial risk is too high. There is also a huge drop of quality in Lego products. Most sets are overpriced, poorly designed and cheaply made, by using leftover parts in wrong colors that are visible from the outside, or stickers instead of prints. The competitors don't use parts in wrong colors, and Cobi proudly states that all their pieces are pad printed and no stickers are included in their sets. So it's understandable that Lego fears that those become more popular, especially among AFOLs. And that's why they sue people who call interlockable bricks from other companies “Legos”.

[@g.williams2047]

I think Lego is going hard recently against more and more custom and aftermarket people because their production edge is almost gone. I build a lot of large Mocs, several 1000 parts that would be absurdly expensive for me to get from Bricklink. By using alternative bricks I can make the stuff 5 times cheaper, and I can say without a doubt th equality is almost there. Once someone can get a perfect quality version of a minifigure production system, the game is up and Lego actually has to start competing again, risking those 30% profit margins.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Oh I am sure that has a lot to do with it.

[@AusKipper1]

For my luck and 2c for what its worth, the quality for non lego compontents is basically there for all components except for bricks, technic pins, IR receiver/remote and chain link. The cheap after market motors I have gotten have been decent but the IR receiver/remote or both (I dont know who is the culprit, probably both because if I swap out one for genuine I still have issues) was not up to the standard of genuine. I don't use mini figs so I cannot comment to those. I should also clarify with the technic pins, they did work but with weaker holding force and some moulding defects on some of them that were easily cut off with a razor. Sometimes weaker holding force is nice.

[@g.williams2047]

@@AusKipper1 All my motors except for a micromotor are knockoffs. They work great with my builds. It's great how good quality the non lego stuff has gotten recently.

[@GothamClive]

The minifig is the edge Lego still has. They don't have a patent on the minifig. It's a 3D brand logo (I assume that's the translation for the German word 3D Marke). This means it gets treated like the Spirit of Ecstasy on a Rolls Royce or the star on a Mercedes. Several German companies were sued because of that and now offer their own versions that are sufficiently different. But these figures are very ugly. If you want to see what they look like, I suggest searching for Bluebrixx Star Trek. They have figures of all star Trek crews. And they look baaaad. But they are legal. They have some design protection on certain parts, But that gets really complicated. BTW, if only very few people were interested in model train stuff made of plastic bricks, then Bluebrixx wouldn't offer that many.

[@coasterblocks3420]

LEGO wouldn’t be having this problem if they hadn’t effectively abandoned the model railroading hobby.

[@samwalker8893]

Lego was never in the model railroading hobby….. thats the whole point…. That is exactly the point Lego is making… they are not in the model railroading hobby, they never were. Even with the adult welcome packs nowadays Lego STILL CHOOSE not to enter the “model railroading hobby”, BUT they have always and still make lego city line TOYS for children to add trains to their toy setup, not a hobbyist model railroad system. FOR THAT REASON

[@pastajensen]

@@samwalker8893 Actually they where but after the 12v era they started rolling back on the theme and now it is more of an add-on to the City theme.

[@samwalker8893]

@@pastajensen and if you look at ANY material lego produced it all references adding a train to your legoland, not being a model railway…. Their own founders son said in three interviews throughout the 90s Lego “was not chasing the model market”

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

But yet they are chasing the model market. How else do you explain the modular city buildings, ucs sets and the new adult line of Lego. Maybe not train hobbiest, but to say they are not into the model market is absurd.

[@longwallmining]

Problem is once lego stop supporting a theme or sub theme and you come in to fill the gap, the 3rd party needed to be a bit more Savvy when dealing with 1. Legacy product. 2. A company that still exists and has product that is part of an over arching “system” End of the day HA got slack or too comfortable with other companies trademark

[@GJBricks]

Well explained. It does feel very heavy handed with what they’re doing. Sure there was a middle ground for going after them.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

I would hope they will settle somewhere in the middle. Ive looked at a lot of other sets they sell also, and the labeling they are in trouble for looks to be new. So it might not be as harsh as we think.

[@jossdeiboss]

They should just ask to change the description of the box, specifying the quantity of LEGO parts and the quantity of non-LEGO parts. They should list it properly also in the booklet where you have the list of parts. As I have read in another comment, LEGO wants probably some attention and they will find an agreement similar to the one I have put above. Maybe they will have to send updated booklets to former buyers via email or similar, but I don't think they will really go to court.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

I agree that would be a much more reasonable solution. Like it most suits, they ask for the moon and usually settle somewhere in the middle.

[@acollectionofcells840]

In US law a company loses most rights to what is done with a product after it is sold to the first company. This is apart of resellers laws and why scalpers/ebay resellers are legal. If the original product is not protected by a patent, you may freely sell your modified product as well as the original product (as long as you do not use any trademarks/copyrights associated with the original product with your product). Since LEGO has lost its patent in many countires this argument of the lawsuit will fall flat. Lepin was sued not for just stealing the brick patent but also recreating modeld sets in the likeness of lego and selling them as if their own design. That infringed on Legos compyright of that set. That part of the lawsuit also falls flat. In the set that you showed HA bricks did not list the model as an official LEGO model. Nor did they label the technic bricks as actual lego bricks. LEGO has no grounds to sue in this case. Moreover HA bricks would have a great case to counter sue LEGO under antitrust. Specifically prohibiting anticompetstive conduct if they could prove harm of market share. For example, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) prohibits a single company from unreasonably restraining competition by creating or maintaining monopoly power.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

That is some very good insight and information, i will be the first to say legal matters are beyond my knowledge. So that you for the awesome comment :)

[@Johan_S847]

Hi Bevin, I have a question. I want to light up a 6 stud wide Lego van, but I'm not sure how I'm going to do this. How big is the '2032 Button Cell Battery Box with 8mm Plug'? Will this fit within 4x4 studs? This is the smallest battery box you sell, right?

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

No the lr44 is my smallest battery option and for vehicles the best choice as it comes complete with 6 output ports, on/off switch and batteries. bevinsbricks.com/store/ols/products/lr44-battery-pack You just need to buy 4 bright white or warm white 6 inch micro leds to install in the headlights and tailights.

[@Johan_S847]

@@BevinsBricksWorld thanks!! That’s exactly what I need! I’ll order them soon :)

[@MrBeachy]

Idk. I kind of feel like they are protecting their brand. If someone buys this train set and a piece has issues, they don’t know if it’s a Lego brick or a custom piece (video says they are included but not separated?), but will lean on blaming Lego because that’s the big name.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

I dont fault them for not wanting their name on the box. They want to protect the brand. I just felt what they are requesting is a bit harsh as they are using official pieces. But like most suits. What actually happens Im sure will land somewhere on middle ground.

[@Nikioko]

If you ever asked yourself why Lego is so expensive: It is to fund their laws department to sue off competitors. Because if they get rid of competition, Lego isn't forced to improve their quality to compete. Many alternative brands (e.g. Cobi or CaDA) have already overtaken Lego in set and brick quality.

[@johankorten2797]

There is different legislation in the EU indeed compared to the US so I hope you are right, but I'm not so sure. I used to print for-LEGO stickers before I started my PhD. Because I didn't print enough my machine broke down, but I think stickers is more tricky as those were/are reproductions. So I still don't understand why they went first for HA bricks and not for sticker producers for example.

[@karremania]

Its often a case of 'where we get the most succes'. Stickers are a whole different case, they include often real brands (ferrari, etc) or are so generic 'two tone stripes' that its not a printed in rock solid case.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

I think stickers are a hard case to mess with. Its a removeable item and most are unique to the person that designs them.

[@TritonBrickRailway]

When I made my video I had little info to go by but it was to get word out. We're due to get a court ruling today, we know lego will win but its what they've won is what we need to know

[@joebennett7221]

Hey bevin bricks just checking up on you haven't seen some of your videos lately...sorry about that just been busy

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

I dont post much anymore anyway so no worries. Doing good, my lighting business has really taken off.

[@et_phonehome_2822]

I bought mini figures from UK seller which advertised as Lego. The product was not Lego but 3D print, no where in the ad did it say not Lego 😢.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Sorry to hear that, I hope you got a refund. My understanding is Lego still owns the rights to minifigures and they are not allowed to be duplicated. Although I know they frequently.

[@CPPRODUCTIONS1001]

Lego, like so many other before them are protecting the brand and preventing potential litigation. It will be settled out of court like they always do. Its to get the attention of the party "infringing" on the property. I guarantee that they wont even get far in court. Lego will turn around and say "Now i have your attention, change your labelling, dont use lego branding and we are all good" Do I agree with the bullying tactic? No, but it is much more common that people realise. Big corps dont want to go to court, even the smallest of hearings can cost a lot

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Yeah court costs a lot for both parties, so I am sure it will be handled quickly and land more in middle ground on the settlement.

[@DZstudios.]

Interesting lawsuit

[@jimg7508]

That sounds great I'm glad you looked into it Daryl wouldn't want to see any lawsuits coming your way

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Trying to cover my but. Even modified parts, if your not advertising or printing Legos name it would be a tough battle to push.

[@stroy2467]

Brickmania is one of the largest custom Lego companies I know of who use Lego and NON-Lego custom and I believe they mention this on their boxes. Only thing is they’re American so I guess it’s different.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

There are different rules in the usa but not totally sure on what all the differences are.

[@gamernerd1331]

I know that Lego doesn't support the type of kits that Brickmania sells since they go against their brand values (military mostly), so this makes me wonder if Lego is watching them very closely. If they're going after HAbricks then I'm sure they would take the first opportunity they get to go after Brickmania too, unfortunately.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Brickmania doesnt use the lego name on the sales pages or boxes, which is what I think keeps them out of hot water.

[@gamernerd1331]

@@BevinsBricksWorld No they do. I just built one of their sets over the weekend, and on the front of the box it says "contains 256 Lego and Brickmania Elements." They also mention their sets contain X amount of lego parts on each of their product pages.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Really, I didnt think they did. Surprised they havent been hit then.

[@Scotts_Blocks]

Didn't even know about this. Thanks for the great breakdown.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Was announced I think Monday so it is very new news :)

[@Toughbeard]

If we look at the lawsuit plainly, I have to agree it seems a little "too" agressive but we do not at this point have any official declerations from any party about how long this has been going on. So, if Lego has issued a warning before the lawsuit "and" HABricks has officially replied that, as of the warning the sets will be changed to "such such design is this good for you?" the Lawsuit will drop. I think Lego is making a power move... SHow of force if you will and they have chosen HABricks to make an example of. It will be a slap on the wrist and get in line warning to all.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Very true, we only get what is reported. Someone else had commented that they had previous warnings.

[@Hugh_Mungus_Johnson]

This kind of BS never would've happened in America

[@XTRABRIX]

Great video! You're knowledge in this area is awesome and I'm glad you are already doing the right things to protect yourself! When the time comes to fully light up my city, I'll definitely be trying some of your products!

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Thanks and I look forward to your order 😀

[@ivansmith654]

I have no respect for Lego and I know nothing of AH Brick until now thank you that infor!

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

HA designs some very cool train mocs.

[@Bigdog1787]

Did not know you made custom glass hmm mayve once my Lego big enough to do custom buildings then I'll get glass from you. I some what prefer actual lego, but not 100% especially with trains can't get 12v unless you want to buy the real expensive old parts.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

I have only done a few things with custom printing and so far the sales have not been great. So not sure how much more I will venture into it.

[@Marco1973est]

Thanks for explanation’

[@WhyrenGP]

To be fair, there is probably a random trademark law that forces lego to sue for something as dumb as that. or otherwise loose their brand name.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Thats very possible, but when it comes to laws, I dont know much

[@inubrick]

Hi Daryl, thanks for the video. There are just too many with too little sense in this brick bubble. Keep up the excellent work and stay as yourself. Greetings Inu

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Hell9 and thanks, hope this finds you doing well :)

[@marijn8057]

Isn’t HA Bricks unable to share customer data with lego because of EU privacy laws? Or does a lawsuit decision by a judge overrule that? Also if lego goes through with this should we organise a boycot of lego and start an online campaign in protest of lego acting like a bully?

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Thats a very good point, and I would think you are right. But like most things Im sure a judge order could over rule that.

[@wogfro]

corporate greed

[@natemr4482]

Great video Daryl thanks for the info 😁

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Hey Nate, thanks 😊

[@achipofftheoldblocktoys3387]

This a good example of why I love the Lego product but I don't like The Lego Group. Really Lego Group? It is all in the name of the Almighty Dollar. It is so easy to see through all of this.

[@rijkemans5114]

Lego wants HAbricks to buy back the sold sets and destroy them. I've lost my respect to the company. I wonder if Brickmania should fear a lawsuit, to me that business appears a lot similar in how they describe and fill their set contents. It's their right, but if AFOL's beg Lego for stuff for years in vain, they're going to fill those gaps themselves. Going after them would only hurt their name I think, especially if you consider some of those businesses deliver (much) higher quality than the genuine parts, many of which are suffering from quality issues. Reminds me of Traxxas going after 3rd party businesses.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Yeah I read that also. What I think is rediculous is that they are also demanding to know all the buyers information.

[@BrickfordCityFire]

Great overview! Thank you for clarifying everything!

[@subman721]

Oh dude, by the way, love the shirt, I have the same exact one. It totally reminds me of my two boys, Nolan, & Ryan. Nolan is older with brown hair and Ryan is younger with blonde hair. Both are teenagers.

[@magnuskallas]

It is the legendary Beavis and Butthead shirt.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Thanks, loved watching Beavis and butthead back in the day. Even had the video game on my sega. Wish I still had that game system to.play it.

[@samwalker8893]

“I think a simple cease and desist would be sufficient” They are WAY WAY past this, Lego sent FIVE copies of cease and desist for a facebook group named Lego Restore , for a group showing how to clean lego with chemicals and restore colour using hydrochloride etc… FIVE separate cease and desists in person, 2 emails and 2 letters.. if it got to court and this hearings it is way past them asking nicely and THAT is why they are hitting it so hard, because HA refused to deal and communicate in good faith AFTER been asked, told and warned

[@stijnd5268]

Having met the guy personally I will call doubt on you spreading misinformation about him handling it in bad faith, if anything thats how lego is treating the situation. HABricks actually did come with suggestions and was willing to cooporate within a reasonable extend which lego outright refused.

[@samwalker8893]

@@stijnd5268 THEY dont need to co-operate or take suggestions, THEY are in the right… thats the point

[@stijnd5268]

@@samwalker8893 ah my bad I misunderstood. The only point lego has is the bricks with ball bearings harming the structure of the trechnic brick. But even though they said they're willing to not do that anymore lego still wants the entire business to go down, its just sad

[@samwalker8893]

@@stijnd5268 no, that isnt what Lego is chasing.. Lego is chasing their repeated insistence and marketing that they are using Lego bricks… , yes, as PART of the supplied product. One example 1206 parts: 14 lego

[@stijnd5268]

@@samwalker8893 95/99% of the kits are original lego pieces depending on the size. usually the only pieces not from original lego are train wheels and driving rods.

[@rclaxton1651]

Dang lego had to do it

[@joebennett7221]

How are you doing

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Doing good, how are you

[@joebennett7221]

@@BevinsBricksWorld doing OK excited for the 4th next month

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

@joebennett7221 whats the 4th ?

[@joebennett7221]

@@BevinsBricksWorld a lego convention in st louis

[@censorbleep3018]

Pfft, when I buy a box of "Lego" at a garage sale, it's loaded with marbles, mega blox, chunks of bubble gum, etc. Lego doesn't give a toss about that.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Lol, very true

[@Sadler_bricks]

Very interesting case here. Nice video Sadler_Bricks

[@subman721]

1:47 CUSTON PRINTED GLASS!!!!!!! Will please do custom printed Rose Windows for the Notre Dame Cathedral?????? PRETTY PLEASE????? I do not,like the idea of Clear Rose Windows!

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

I currently have a rose pattern available on a 2x2 glass part. What is it on the notre dame set ?

[@subman721]

@@BevinsBricksWorld I’m not sure of the size, but the rose windows in that set have the pattern on a dish element, but the dish is trans clear. So there is no color to it, as there should be.

[@no_drama_wanted_here]

Your video is exactly what I said in the comments on your last video

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Yeah, I have had so many make mention of this I thought I would make a quick video to try and help clear things up for people.

[@janetlutter9925]

Nice ti see you again

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Hi Janet hope your doing well 😀

[@jeroenverzijl8596]

They design trains that are better then origanal lego and it is a european company if they were chineze that wouldn't try

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

They do have some amazing designs

[@billybereu2010]

I have the same t shirt

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Got to love Beavis and Butthead

[@jasonjtg21]

Lego has every right to protect its logo, likeness, product, and all other I.P. We would do the same thing if we created something. We would want the protect of copywriter laws and registration of patents etc…

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Yes they do, and Im sure they will settle somewhere on middle ground.

[@alanlugiai]

I think protecting IP is right, stealing is stealing

[@yamatokira4335]

Which one, stealing? Even IP rights has its own limitation.

[@samwalker8893]

And as for your comment regarding what your sticker says, unfortunately Lego owns the trademark “power functions” too , so technically, legally, you are breaking the tm restrictions owned by Lego. And heres the video of you admitting you did it

[@g.williams2047]

They don’t sell power functions anymore, screw them. The Chinese ripoffs do the job well enough without without having to spend $200 on a freaking PF Servo.

[@samwalker8893]

@@g.williams2047 so its screw them, their legal protection and the law because they dont sell it anymore? Is that how it works? What about if someone said fine burn down and destroy your your houses bomb shelter because you dont use it anymore, or your kidd school cos they grew? The law doesnt change on age or need, you want something you pay, older things cost more, can you get a knock off VW Beetle because they refuse to sell them anymore and vintage costs? So sod it lets welcome the “WC Stag Insect” instead… of course not… the law doesnt change because you cant afford to pay the asking price

[@DerAlex86]

LEGO is clearly marking its trademarks on its website with (TM) and (R) in >90% of the occurrences where it uses them. The words "Power Functions" are never marked as a trademark on the official LEGO website. Only the orange power functions logo is marked with (TM). Don't confuse the two - using the PF logo would bring trouble, but the wording does not.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

No your wrong, they own the trade mark of which I do not use. But the part itself the patents have run out and it is why you now see so many off brand companies that make and sell them. The current patent is the power ups. That is still under protection and why you do not see off brand versions of the parts yet.

[@BevinsBricksWorld]

Exactly