LET'S ARGUE: TikTok Is Ruining Music

Other topics include analog being better than digital, and calling progressive music pretentious.
Edited by Ryan from Downhill Media:
/ downhillmedia
/ @downhillmedia
===================================
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[@johnnycheckpoint8431]

TikTok is ruining society, not just music.

[@tylerhackner9731]

True

[@matthewsmythe3328]

Tik tok is the worst thing ever lol

[@Lo-opss]

TikTok is literally the same as KZbin, you people just have never download it, or have download It an pretend that the first 3 videos you got were the only thing there was lmao

[@ohno5559]

omg [recent thing] is le ruining le society

[@soulciel]

You guys sound exactly like older people talking about tv

[@DrSteveBrule552]

What annoys me about music on tiktok is how overplayed a song becomes. A track gets popular and EVERYONE uses it for their video and i never want to hear it again.

[@cccckxcckeo]

Or when a song on TikTok is NOTHING like the original

[@WorldsNotFound]

​@@cccckxcckeolike when they slow it down or speed it up?

[@Davy_Blaze]

Or maybe, just maybe you should spend less time on TikTok?

[@surenick3460]

Man that never happened before, no one ever overplayed songs before TikTok. Like imagine if they did that with Stairway to Heaven?

[@filipstefanovski155]

Great Gig In The Sky

[@VinnieGer]

TikTok has eroded my attention span so hard I couldn’t get past the opening skit.

[@UltimateIrishRebel]

I couldn't even finish reading your comment, but I'm happy for you. Or sorry that happened.

[@jumnyum]

i couldn’t even finish writing th

[@justagoodcook3390]

@@UltimateIrishRebelyou’re a genius

[@thefirstone4864]

I never use tik tok and youtube shorts but my attention span is garbage it's not really because of tik tok it's more on people using social media you can see the fist minute of the KZbin video and see some comments and go to other videos and so on it's way worse than tik tok and some people might have autistic traits and can't have control over something they didn't choose but no it's all because of tik tok.

[@alexyssaubrie1606]

I don’t watch tiktok but i clicked off once and then struggled to finish it the second time when I remember why I clicked off the first time

[@BlindMango]

Hearing my coworker scroll through TikTok and hearing that STUPID “oh no no no no” song over and over again is enough to avoid the app lol

[@prematuredgravy8033]

Good lord that song actually makes the life-threatening thoughts bubble up

[@gasolineandwine]

That song has been out of fashion for years though

[@pyramldofbonez]

@@gasolineandwineand it hasn’t gotten less annoying

[@CountryHistory193]

And the fact that the song wasn't even the original, it's just an instrumental for the song "Oh No", by New York rapper, Capone*, which is a rap song that's actually wasn't that bad. But people decided to milk the shit out of that instrumental and overuse it. * I haven't researched this, but I have a feeling that the instrumental of that song was just a sample of a previous song that's being high-pitched and sped up.

[@arisandra]

the editor went hard on this lets argue

[@horatio2560]

youre not gonna knock on my door cuz ill knock your door first

[@camsons]

Let's agree

[@elumit]

I Agree

[@YourLocalMelomaniac]

Bro the pie/earth part sent me

[@onemilliongecs]

editor so mad that fantano gave their aoty a 6 that they took their anger out on this let's argue

[@haziqtheunique]

The biggest issue I have with TikTok when it comes to music is that it feels like a lot of artists are fishing for a meme soundclip to be shared over & over again, rather than making a good 3 to 4 minute song that has some loopable parts.

[@ictogon]

Money for fun 😁

[@Thekidisalright]

And how is that TikTok’s fault

[@amnesiiia430]

AJR has literally started putting slowed+reverb sections in their songs, they want that TikTok money so bad bro. (AJR are massive industry plants btw)

[@Sexy_gorilla]

Let's argue: Cal is ruining the music industry because nobody can make anything as great as the Calassic mixtape

[@greatcoldemptiness]

TND isn't like it used to be with the distinct lack of Cal. There's no soul in the reviews anymore :(

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

people gotta grow up at some point, man

[@AnarchyIsLove]

Rubber Duck (Pickup Truck) basically started every Tik Tok trend we hear today and we've never achieved that again in the modern music landscape

[@Nersius]

​@@LordofDiamondsMetalI'm an aduuuuuuuult. I now dislike cute things, and when I need to relax, I either whittle or do my taxes -- both while having whisky and a steak of course.

[@chuckisaduck1163]

calm ya farm!!!🧑‍🌾

[@SanguineThor]

Anthony makes some great points about the new generation of music superfans. People that are in Discords and multiple communities to find and recommend the massive sea of music we have access to. I love seeing enthusiastic new people listening to a new album every single day just for the hell of it. Its refreshing that so much new music is being given a shot.

[@TheDealer1228]

"I love seeing enthusiastic new people listening to a new album every single day just for the hell of it." I hate it, personally. You're not listening to anything at that point, you're just consuming it like any other product.

[@Dragonflyer74]

@@TheDealer1228 listening to a new album everyday is nothing. It’s not like you’re exclusively listening to new music and never listening to anything twice

[@HitoriGnocchi]

did you write this in chatgpt it sound so fake

[@corvidconsumer]

​@@HitoriGnocchinot everyone uses modern slang

[@grey8478]

i was talking to my granddad one time and said i had heard like 600 albums, and that really threw him off lol i don't listen to as much new music as i did in 2022 now though, kind of a shame

[@Winabagel23]

So glad for the return to full Let's Argue vids. Ive been so starved from your KZbin shorts that I bought melon scented body wash just to feel closer to you Anthony

[@coryjohnson2486]

😂🤣😂 dumb, but hilarious

[@teamkockroach4080]

tran - SITION! But if you’ve used this body wash, what would you rate it? Did you love it, did you bathe it?

[@nikolaibeckel1071]

@@teamkockroach4080 how would you lathe it?

[@Advent3546]

Tiktok is killing our attention span more than our music

[@NyolateAMV]

Don’t have Tiktok... it seems like everyone is peer pressured into using it just to fit in with the crowd. Such a sad world

[@nicksiegfried4906]

Jokes on you, my attention span was ruined far before TikTok

[@AndrewB23]

Nah I'm pretty y'all attention span was already low

[@ex8x]

@@NyolateAMVnewer musicians really have no choice tbh it's the most popular app for music meaning it's the best place to promote it.. like 95% of new artists you see pop up nowadays mostly came from tiktok it sucks but it's just the era we're in rn

[@elyy0345]

My anxiety killed my attention span but then I used tiktok and it got worse.

[@Onthehuntphotography]

I think what is happening to music with Tik Tok is what happened to photography on Instagram. There are going to be so many songs that sound the same like there are so many photos on Instagram that are copies of each other. However, the great creatives in the space always find a way to stand out and push the art form forward.

[@_NoDrinkTheBleach]

Prog fans are generally way more pretentious than prog music is.

[@Bruh-ob9mi]

Being a fan of Dream Theater, let me tell you, those are some insufferable cunts. Not the band, of course, the other fans. I catch myself being a cunt too sometimes.

[@caseyfitch2330]

The amount of times I've tried to get into prog & spoken with prog fans looking for recs, only to be greeted with a silly little guy frolicking on stage playing a flute or some shit over a band sounding like Spinal Tap... ...which if that's your thing then fine! But the same people also shit on anything remotely popular in other genres. And God forbid you mention that you like hip-hop in front of any of them...

[@fortynights1513]

@@caseyfitch2330Why do prog fans shun people who don’t like hip hop?

[@countvondutchessofwestmoor3974]

@@fortynights1513 minuscule sample size

[@Noreillay]

Yep, 100%

[@tylerhackner9731]

I hate TikTok with a passion but let’s not act like other eras didn’t have a similar trend or thing that ran its course, like, the ringtone rap trend of the mid 2000s was some sort of creatively fertile era, and this era is uniquely soulless. Every era has good and bad, and we’ll more likely remember the good stuff more, as melon said.

[@Lo-opss]

That is if you believe that TikTok it's people dancing popular music, wich by now is like the 10% of all the actual content

[@patrickgobel3759]

what comes to mind too is the dj mustard era 10 years ago

[@jahn77]

Tbh I think KZbin is worst IMO

[@TiredCapybara]

I don't disagree here, but I think the problem in particular with TikTok is how widespread it is. The invention of social media and how connected we've become globally over the past 15 years has absolutely amplified this issue and made things more homogenous. It isn't that this hasn't happened or isn't apart of music history, but that a much more interconnected world makes it more obvious.

[@Ppppftt]

​@@jahn77KZbin is terrible and people who complain about tiktok 24/7 are just either really young or terrible people who have clear motives in doing so

[@alexm2528]

I will admit that most modern music seems to be aiming for a viral 10 second clip of a song. Like the production and 'catchy' concept is only in 10 second bursts so that it's ideal for TikToks and the like. Good example is 'Unholy' by Sam Smith - Song is goddamn boring production and lyric-wise, but the chorus is catchy as hell. It's clear where the focus was and what the intention was for that song.

[@8nicopink868]

I get this take but I also feel like a lot of pop music had the same 'boring verses, bombastic chorus' structure way before TikTok was a thing.

[@BigOwl51]

There are lots of great bands, rappers and singers who blow up on tik tok and have large, passionate fanbases, but many people only focus on the worst of the worst one hit wonders like abcdefu and party girl. It’s like calling all 2000s rap trash because ringtone rap was a thing.

[@coryjohnson2486]

🤔 that’s true…

[@GizzyDillespee]

Some good still can come out of a crappy situation. No matter the platform, some talented people will rise to the top. So, why not go with a healthier platform? I think tiktok is designed to be addictive, just like slot machines are. I think it's a Trojan Horse of an app - it was gifted to the west by the Chinese government. Doesn't that seem a little bit odd? The filters remind me of a toddler's TV show - designed to train people with short attention spans. The mechanics of it remind me of a slot machine - designed to encourage you to keep swiping. And some of the challenges and pranks have been pretty sick. You can find that stuff online. I don't want to bring specifics - anyone can find tiktok reaction channels on youtube, if they do t want to venture to titkok directly

[@dancegregorydance6933]

Didn’t that Dance Monkey song come from TikTok?

[@KatSpicert]

​@@dancegregorydance6933 you remember that song?

[@joeogle7729]

​@@KatSpicertto be fair I think that song should be preserved and remembered as a warning from history...

[@manytinyboxes]

one of the greatest fantano intros of all time

[@GenericName52]

Agreed, I truly can't hear my parents fighting.

[@quadoduece]

I dont think its tiktok, i think its the internet/social media over all & not just music i think its with everything from music to politics. Most things now just live in far homoginized extremes

[@user-dnf83n0s8sg9u]

Yeah, now every social media save for one or two is trying to keep up with TikTok. And I can’t say I like it all that much

[@fromasgardwithlove2257]

It's TikTok, trust.

[@fortynights1513]

Moreover, part of the reason the past looks so much better in some regards is because as Fantano said, the worst tracks are mostly forgotten because there was no social media at the time to spread them, and there was no discourse mocking them. Early to mid 2000’s are the last generation like that arguably.

[@Ixe2077]

Damn this is how i feel, just put into words.

[@musashihumar]

I think what gets to me about TikTok is the fact that it actually influences how songs are written. People are so worried about their song getting skipped over that now they are having to put the catchiest parts right at the beginning in order to stand a chance of getting listened to for more than two seconds.

[@edwinslater1888]

I think the real problem is having songs labeled as "TikTok songs". In doing that, it erodes any shred of personal identity the song may have had before and from that point on is the property of TikTok incorporated. The artist's song does get exposure, but it no longer belongs to them.

[@lucasbooth3614]

I just don’t like how I show people a cool song I just found and they tell me me it’s a TikTok song from 3 years ago… but they haven’t heard the whole song and yet I’m the one whose late to the party 🤦🏻

[@sorayadeskins3534]

Lmao same, or it’s the opposite with me. I’ll find music/artists I absolutely love and then it goes viral so everyone listens to “my” music and turn it into a tik tok sound

[@lakemasterex7582]

Shortening our attention spans, sacrificing intricate song structure for getting to hooks as fast as possible, hell yeah it’s ruining music

[@billygoatguy3960]

Those tactics to gain wide appeal, accessibility and reach has existed since the advent of the internet and farther back. You know why TV shows have ALWAYS had far more production effort and music in the intros? Marketing tactics have always known that hooks are the most important part of whatever you want to produce. It doesnt matter how good it is, if you cant put something immediately gripping infront of consumers eyes you might as well be dead in the industry. Just find things you like

[@bionicle2122]

What is this dumbass argument of "it's always been a thing look it up" even supposed to Indicate? Clearly there is still an issue

[@ex8x]

had somebody tell me that my beat structure was bad because i didn't have the drop within the first 15 seconds, tiktok really has fried peoples attention span

[@richardvlasek2445]

dae zoomers low attention span dae zoomers low attention span dae zoomers low attention span please for the love of god somebody notice how cool i am

[@rmv9194]

@@billygoatguy3960 Before tiktok we used to listen the whole song, so at least most of it would have to be good. Tik Tok, we only hear the chorus or hooks and when you go to listen the whole song, most of the time is a dissapointment.

[@mike_ere]

I do think TikTok is kinda ruining music in the way that artists are reliant on algorhytm and there has to be a hook to spam content to (doesn't matter how good the whole song actually is). Though I have found some incredible musicians and independent artists on tiktok, which is definitely something:)

[@tentinquarantino876]

It's not about music being bad, it's about 30 second snippets that are only recognisable fragments at some concerts. It's like going to a concert boasting that you're ultra-super-duper-fan of an artist(s), but only knowing the most popular singles. It's not so bad, because you can discover more of their songs on that events, but when folks are bored through a whole set and just for that brief 30 seconds they instantly, all at once, are recording that for a clout... then the problem begins. If I was an performing artist and would see something like that, I would leave the scene immediately and I'd never come back. Ever.

[@tentinquarantino876]

Inb4, wanna example? Steve Lacy - Bad Habit.

[@zangoon4546]

Yep Instant Gratification is the worst thing about the modern world honestly

[@MelMelodyWerner]

did you not actually read the comment he was responding to? he was responding to that person's arguments, not yours, lmao

[@tentinquarantino876]

​@@MelMelodyWernerYeah, I'm dumdum, my bad, I was sleepy and talking in general. Gonna edit that comment so it's more fitting.

[@jasfx7241]

TikTok users are literally the most souless fans of music ever they literally hear the best part of a track and they chop it into a small piece and post it around and everyone goes “omg this songg is so good, omg that chorus” like all they listen to is sped up fast only chorus loops they are BRAINWASHED

[@sorayadeskins3534]

Seriously, I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels this way lol. I seriously lose brain cells from seeing how many times it keeps happening

[@unconcernedsalad2]

the whole “analogue vs digital” argument starts to fall apart when you learn that you can create ‘analogue distortion’ using digital tools (for free)

[@torinriley7569]

I feel like a lotta that debate comes from people trying to justify their quite expensive and hard to upkeep stuff, eg. tape echo units, not to mention the common perception that "Costs more" means "Higher Quality". Not that having physical setups ain't cool, but its certainly not really a necessity anymore. Realistically all you need is; for example, a Nintendo DS emulator and a KORG DS-10 rom to make something neat. I've listened to a whole album made purely using that and it sounds pretty great.

[@johnesparza7170]

Ntm digital literally sounds better in any objective measure, tape machines at the best have a signal to noise ratio at like 13 bits, nearly nobody is working with 100% analog gear these days because of the costs associated. The only reason some studios and engineers still do is because it validates their positions in the industry to be able to afford all the upkeep and extra personal ontop of the crazy price tag.

[@gnalkhere]

For sound maybe, but slaving behind a computer for hours on end to make a Look-up Table emulating the look of 35mm could be useful down the road, but while there's still stock available it still feels too roundabout when 16mm is cheaper to shoot on (with the works) than on 80% of digital cameras around

[@torinriley7569]

@@gnalkhere but to do that you need to buy those physical products, which can cost a fair bit and also often needs its own expertise to use effectively. To emulate something you just need one person, a computer, and some time. Not to mention digital cameras are essentially point and shoot now, with Iphones being a legitimate option for movie-quality footage thanks to all of its various digital enhancement and stabilization features. I'm not even talking out my ass there, Iphones have been and will continue to be used for professional level camera work, most likely, because they're very accessible and take little technical skill to get good footage with.

[@eighty92]

Digital opens doors to many more options, but analog offers more limitations. Limitations can breed creativity. A lot of the best creative works of all time have been created under conditions where there are limitations.

[@floridastar1000]

I hate hearing “I heard this on TikTok, can you skip this track” when I play a bomb ass track in the truck just to be ruined by TikTok and their users

[@nicolasgaither6247]

There was a song sung in Spanish thats been really been popular on tiktok and KZbin shorts. Id see this song being played over the dumbest shorts id ever seen so it kinda made me have this idea about the song that it was as stupid as what I was seeing. Then i saw a short that had a live version of the song being played with English subtitles. It changed my whole perspective of the song and it made me angry that people would put such a deep piece of music over the dumbest shit id ever seen.

[@sorayadeskins3534]

This is exactly how I feel. I’m very passionate about my music so if it shows up on tik tok, I almost feel like people are disrespecting it just to make a 10 second clip instead of really listening to it

[@SuperScott3000]

Analog vs. Digital - as somebody who worked at Guitar Center in the early 2000s, you touched on the most important point to consider which was accessibility to record music. The number of bands that would all pool their money to spend $200 to get the shitty Tascam 4 track cassette recorder, only to have every demo sound like complete ass, and then not have a way to get it on to a CD - was EVERY band during that time.

[@Patricius_Roboticus]

That intro did not have to be that good. Bravo Editor.

[@ayvoreewho]

Digging the thatistheplan vibes right here

[@slakcheetah4989]

Thanks for setting the record straight on “pretentious,” it’s another term that gets chronically overused and misused online (like literally or ironic/ironically before it.) A lot of prog rock isn’t pretentious art, but a person listening to it MIGHT be a pretentious person, if they’re just listening to seem smart or cultured but they don’t actually understand it.

[@SoundMind.]

TikTok watered down rap to a whole new level the new era rappers don't even give you 3 verse anymore nor give you full song structure which ties back into the decrease in attention spans which wasn't a problem before

[@UniversalHunte]

As someone whose parents are actually fighting while I’m watching this, that intro did cheer me up and inspire chuckles

[@bionicle2122]

Damn bro that sucks I hope they leave eachother

[@AndrewB23]

Hey bud this might be a dick thing to say but keep your personal life off of the internet and stop trying to get sympathy likes

[@UniversalHunte]

‘preciate you 😂

[@jessee3742]

i also don't get how people act like they're original for noticing that humans copy each other. it's what we do naturally.

[@jme3476]

Exactly, it's just a matter of fact that there is only a potential limit of music output there is. That's why samples and interpolation is common and influential artists is what is happening now rather then quality.

[@AndrewB23]

Sounds like you're a monkey see monkey do type person

[@smittywerbenjagermanjensen1051]

They probably don’t think they’re original. They’re probably venting

[@puxtbuck6731]

Most of the comments that are discussed on here aren’t original. Not dissing Fantano I enjoy his commentary I’m more just pointing to these “hot takes.”

[@AbrahamPalmer-wj5cb]

Correct

[@Skynertia]

Tiktok certainly has a role in ruining modern music. But one thing that always gets me is the move to groups of songwriting specialists creating cookie cutter grand slams songs for major popstars. From Bieber to Arianna Grande to Dua Lipa to Drake, and so on. None of these songs mean a damn thing to the performers, they're just manufactured pieces made to catch ears. There's nothing meaningful underneath, today's music is entirely about what "sounds good" to the largest group of adolescents. Singer-Songwriters are dead, and the songs created today have the same lifelessness.

[@kanjosidr]

Calling The Bends cover art "shitty" is a crime lmao

[@nomihabo9752]

It was memed on for quite a while, still is on occasion

[@PhenomenalJec]

Especially when the Pablo Honey cover exists

[@MinisterOFunk]

It's not even their worst one (or 2nd worst in my opinion). Luckily it doesn't change my opinion of the music at all

[@WiloPolis03]

I mean that's not really a very new take, people have been bashing that art for forever lol

[@MalcolmVVC]

It is really ugly tho

[@mushroomcrepes4780]

My mother watches tiktok and all I hear is 5 second loops of music changing every other loop. I just want to pull my hair out, I just want silence :(

[@sweetpea9191]

Same with my mom except its Facebook videos. I can’t even have a conversation with her when her phone is in her hand, she won’t even look up at me. I have to try to catch her when she’s away from her phone if I want to tell her something important or she literally won’t listen to me.

[@medlakey6969]

My mom uses tiktok quite a bit, she uses it so much that the tik tok icons are literally burned into her phone display. I just hate it when she'll like replay a video like 6 times especially when it's that annoying ass "oh no" song.

[@ringer1324]

Same but with my grandpa and Facebook videos. So annoying especially in a public place (the prime place he does it for some reason)

[@scribblybubbles]

I couldn’t have said this better myself, especially when you said often younger people creating music or people in general with not a lot of experience will base their song influence off something that’s already been done. It’s hard to be unique, I have always wanted to make music. But until the day I come up with something I’ve perfected to my standards, I’d rather keep it to myself.

[@scribblybubbles]

Primus is a great example of strange and interesting. The mars Volta a great example of abstract and deep/dark.

[@mnif001]

Regarding the "TikTok is ruining music" discourse: the "short song" argument, especially coming from pop fans craving for bridges in pop songs, while understandable, has been a bit odd to me, because if we look back in time, there were a LOT of songs, namely Beatles songs, rockabilly songs, Motown songs, etc. which had pretty short songs, sometimes not even crossing the 2:30 mark, and some of these songs were still great! To me, what makes a song great is its content, not really its length (unless the song feels drastically incomplete, sure). Judging a song by its length, without even listening to it beforehand, is definitely NOT the way to go. The catalyst for these short songs may be different from what it was back then (namely people's short attention span now), but if an artist decides to make a fire 2:15 min song, hey, who am I to refuse? Also, I must add: I explicitly said "pop fans" earlier (though they are not the only ones to have this point of view, for sure), and I don't mean to sound patronizing at all, I myself LOOOOVE pop music, but by talking about specific parts of a song (verses, pre-chorus, chorus, bridge, final chorus), while great... why should we keep pop music in such a restrictive box? Letting pop music branch out and try new song structures is ALSO great, and sometimes, yes, song length can play into this.

[@unknown6390]

Anybody who's serious isn't arguing that short songs are bad. TikTok incentivizes artists on major labels to favor them and go out of their way to make them, now there's less diversity.

[@MelMelodyWerner]

not to mention that punk and punk offshoots (e.g. grind, hardcore) have even shorter songs that are intentionally rudimentary in terms of structure.

[@MrGrimlocke]

Outside of punk, I feel like songs that are 2 minutes long are a waste of time and I don’t like listening to them. Some songs aren’t even hitting the 2 minute mark now and it feels like there’s no way to create a satisfying experience if you’re cutting the song so short. 3 minutes or longer feels right to me

[@SAVANTI711]

I definitely agree that Tik Tok is ruining music. People are more focused on producing a track that will be picked up on a Tik Tok algorithm, The music becomes trash, tacky and non creative. There is no artistic value at all anymore.

[@dancegregorydance6933]

It reminds me of the 2000s, right when cell phones became common, we saw a deluge of ring-tone rap.

[@Waltar100]

"no artistic value at all anymore" do you even listen to music? There's a lot of music and artists that don't fall in between those rules, what are you talking about

[@BeBoMaMu]

TikTok has not spoiled music, but it has spoiled our relationship with music. It's all gotten obnoxious.

[@sarthakjain1824]

There are many artists who are not making songs just for them to go viral on tiktok, listen to them

[@Smallshotty97]

I wonder if the "(insert artist name) Type Beat" stuff popped up around the same time? I don't use Tik Tok at all, but I do agree with the branch of this conversation where this mass commercialization/hype/trend chasing is really not helping in any way

[@theneonchimpchannel9095]

Album artwork is an interesting subject. You can either go for the traditional idea of making something that fits the style of music and says something about who the band are in a visual way, or it can also be a piece of art in it's own right. You can't always judge an album by it's artwork though. There's some albums that I love where the cover art is just a bit "meh". There's also albums with amazing covers that don't live up to the expectations you get from seeing the image. When I design covers for my own albums, I tend to look at it as it's own creative endeavour, I don't know if any of my band's album covers really convey anything about the music aside from maybe the first one because there were clues to the song titles in the various pictures, but even then, it doesn't really get across what kind of music it was.

[@CordeliaAurora]

This is similar to when people blame the internet for loneliness epidemic etc. It comes from lack of knowledge about the systems that cause the internet/tiktok to be harmful and used as a means of escapism. To say tiktok makes music homogenized and not capitalism is surface level understanding.

[@JamsandTea]

TikTok isn’t ruining music or society, contrary to the comments here, it’s just a channel for the shitty things that already exist within our culture. If the app disappeared tomorrow, everything ‘bad’ about it would be funneled by people and attitudes into something else. Not advocating for it, but the internet is a conduit for everything about people, so of course a lot of it sucks. It’s the same thing as saying ‘modern music sucks’- it’s too broad to register as anything truly insightful.

[@unknown6390]

I agree but which member of Jams and Tea wrote this? 😂❤

[@JamsandTea]

@@unknown6390 Jake :)

[@krunkle5136]

The problem I think is lack of locality and no real way to filter out people that can barely play an instrument or sing, and hide behind a DAW plugin.

[@kimbervoss3753]

My love of music is the reason I don't use tiktok..I had one for about an hour a few years ago and it was the thought of the repeated, annoying tracks people were using in their videos that caused me to run away screaming and never open the app again..lol

[@ftyropek]

the single most egregious "worst track" pick to me has to be "face" being the worst song on saturation

[@hurgcat]

he was grasping for straws hahaha

[@reed_reed]

"Artistic ambulance chasers" Brilliant.

[@chandlerbing7570]

The worst thing TikTok does to music is speed it or slow it down.

[@RustinChole]

“A grown man on tik tok, this is what’s wrong with America” -Sean Strickland

[@fordesponja]

The final point of the first argument is true, I just couldn't imagine bands like The Smiths or The Cure being as popular as they are today with the youth back when I was listening to them 10 years later because my mother was a fan in their hayday. I didn't know anybody my age listening to that in 1997-2000, now I see teens putting The Queen is Dead or Meat is Murder in their favs, that's crazy and a very positive change.

[@etalex7074]

Nice to hear what you said about the analog vs digital argument. i wanna make some distorted electronic music and i want to know that i can at least get started without analog.

[@theneonchimpchannel9095]

There are now programs and plugins that can replicate the sound of tape pretty well. It'll never be exactly the same, but it's close enough for most people to not be able to tell the difference. But there is so much more that goes into recording than the format. You can still record lo-fi sounding music on a computer, even without using plugins to make it sound that way. I used to think that recording digitally was not as good as recording to tape, but really, the issues I have with some digital recordings have more to do with the style of production. I can't stand auto-tune and the other tricks used to make things sound "perfect", but you don't have to use them just because you're using a DAW instead of the old fashioned studio.

[@jocas94]

TikTok, and short form content in general, feels like this thing that we will look back upon as a form of cancer and we simply did not know better then.

[@user_343]

Very important fact to take into consideration: the world population today is bigger than decades ago. There were around 5,3 billion people in 1990, and more than 8 billion today. So, naturally, there will be more of the same music being made, and that is potentialized by the access of information provided by the internet. Tiktok only makes that more visible. It will get worse because the human population peak will happen around 2066. 😨

[@bitticlan]

The editing on these Let’s Argues are getting insanely good. That pie bit was hilarious!

[@mrseaweed88]

I think the reason tik tok is so bad is because it forces anyone attempting to start a career in music to condense anything they record into a short 60 second snippet as apposed to gaining traction through releasing fully developed songs.

[@Thecriticalplug]

Ryan is such a great editor

[@readymade83]

Question: if 'Glow On' was a different color would the album be as popular? It would be hard to judge that album by its cover.

[@supernova_29]

I hate when my favorite song in the whole world gets reduced to a “TikTok song” and gets replayed a million times and everyone only knows that one specific overplayed part. Now I don’t feel special and can’t gatekeep

[@buzzco3811]

Something I’ve noticed is that people will end up using songs and even after like ten times I’ve heard the song I never knew the artist. A good example of this is Hidden in the Sand by Tally Hall, a song I love that I didn’t know was a Tally Hall song until it stopped being used on TikTok

[@scarfacefan5]

Prog isn’t pretentious. Certain bands within prog are pretentious *cough* Tool *cough*

[@MelMelodyWerner]

Tool! AKA, worse Sermon.

[@ses694]

Bands are pretentious when they call themselves progressive

[@juanborjas6416]

I like how Anthony transferred his comedic editing style from thatistheplan to this.

[@WiloPolis03]

Anthony doesn't edit himself lol at least one of his editors is the same editor for Vaush & Hasan

[@tyler-xo3rb]

@@WiloPolis03wonder if he pays him

[@WiloPolis03]

@@tyler-xo3rb I don't think he'd work for him if he didn't lol

[@Langharig_Tuig]

One thing about TikTok though is that it leads to "artists" making "songs" that are just a 12 second banger and maybe a filler for the rest of the song. Sometimes you hear a song from a TikTok and think, oh, that's pretty catchy, how's the rest of the song? Bland as fuck, practicly nonexistent...

[@nicholashayes5773]

"Without digital the bar for entry would be higher." Maybe that's a good thing. Every 2-bit musician thinks they can put out an album now.

[@burningrabbit7278]

I can't finish this video because it's 9 minutes long and Anthony refused to put any Subway Surfers gameplay on one side of the screen to help keep my attention

[@PintsofGuinness]

Won’t be long before this channel fully becomes thatistheplan 2.0, and I’m here for it.

[@DerFilc]

People are writing this comment for over 3 years now. It seems to almost happen but it never actually happens

[@lackthenametosayit]

Totally just learned middle-brow as a descriptor. Makes so much sense. Low-brow. Middle-brow. High-brow.

[@woof2much]

I think the TikTok topic is actually really interesting, and I do agree with Anthony on this being something that has happened with every wave of mainstream music. In my opinion what makes the TikTok era feel so egregious to us is both exposure and ease of access. I don't think that necessarily we're seeing a larger quantity of copycats and trash pop songs, but we're definitely seeing a lot more of it actually reach our ears enough times for us to hate it more than maybe people during the disco era hated the trash disco copycats that Anthony mentioned. Also it seems that he said pretty much exactly that as I was typing this so I should wait until he finishes next time. Now something I'm curious about is if music discussion in a more mainstream setting has gotten worse. I'm in my early 20s, I wasn't there for any kind of mainstream music scene in like, the 20th century, and I didn't get to see much of it in the 2000s. Music discussion does definitely feel worse in comparison to what I remember it being like in the 2010s when it comes to TikTok or Twitter or Instagram ever since the "TikTokification" of popular music started. Could anyone with better memory or that's older than me comment on that?

[@andrewlocke6103]

TikTok is objectively ruining music, don't know how this is debatable.

[@Viper-dz2kw]

One thing I wonder about is with the prevalence of micro fame only increasing im worried that eventually everything will be so segmented that nobody will have big enough audiences to make careers in music and I question if nobody making a living in music is better then having at least some professional artists

[@dancegregorydance6933]

Honestly AI will probably destroy pop music before that happens.

[@Maghan98]

The transisiton from pie, to earth, to melon is simply a stroke of filmmaking genius

[@mattymattffs]

TikTok undoubtedly is negatively affecting music, that's just a fact. Very much observable.

[@AndrewB23]

Alright what's all the points that actually make this a fact and not an opinion because there's always been oversaturated uninspired music and short attention spans

[@mattymattffs]

@@AndrewB23 there's a lot of news on this

[@jakehepworth8938]

This lets argue was up another level on humour and editing.

[@2bigmacspls412]

One of the best intro edits I’ve seen in a long time. It’s like I’m really there with mr fantany himself :)

[@Practical_impracticalities]

As an audio engineer this analog vs digital debate is so stupid. Analog things like tracking boards, tracking tape, summing channels and master tape just add small layers of saturation. That’s it. The saturation causes a bit of compression with some added harmonic frequencies that make it sound a little more rich and full. But if your song sucks it’s not going to fix anything. Recording music digitally is clean and essential. If you want to add some analog stuff on top like running through a master tape at the end of your mix then go for it. Both have their benefits and drawbacks. The only reasonable answer to analog vs digital is “I like both, because I understand them both.”

[@Yeard491]

I honestly think its really cool that breakcore became a meme after listening to it for 15 years, so I'm happy about that at least xd

[@yunahr4120]

the thing is just that tiktok is not a place for art, its just not. you can make art popular through tiktok but you cant make art shine through it.

[@zscarecrows]

Ya’ll have upgraded your production game and I’m loving it.

[@eugenekrabs9948]

This intro feels very targeted

[@jasinferati4064]

Tik tok has essentially popularized 15 second clips of songs, which often times ruins the song without even hearing the whole thing

[@SwooshJush83]

Bruh some songs it’s not even the song people be getting hype to the producer tag 😂

[@8nicopink868]

I haven't watched a Let's Argue in a bit and goddamn has the editing gone unhinged. It looks amazing. Also 2:43 this take is RIGHT and VALID. YES YOU DO MELON!!!!!!!!1!!!

[@henlohenlo689]

my favorite is the ground breaking stuff that blows the mind. it goes beyond what you think should work and still works well. perfect example is old school video game music. like snes fzero music, or snes super metriod music like the jungle floor song. etc. stuff that generally suprises you, and focus's on vibe and feeling. some mumble rap just put on a bland beat and do a predictable pattern of verse and chorus, and to me that is boring music. has to be some extra zing and x factors for me to make it work. just my take on music. i greatly appreciate and love music overall.

[@jordancourtney9142]

Nah tiktok is a problem for other reasons, it allows bad independent musicians to get far too popular. There needs to be even more barrier to entry in the music sphere

[@ck7993]

we need to delete short form content to save the world from odetari

[@unknown6390]

You guys are so ignorant. Major labels dont care if they suck or not. They can get them into exploitative record deals by promising them money and vitality. You should be saying that independent artists should be smarter when confronted by deals

[@temesk7631]

I love The Bends album cover , do people hate it?

[@theholyketchup6445]

After seeing Colin and Samir interview AJR who had their own songs blow up on Tiktok (World's Smallest Violin and The Good Part) it was interesting to see their own view on what Tiktok is doing to music. Thhey brought up the example that another artist had a song that blew up because of the riff in the song, when that artist went on tour, alot of the audience was only there for those 15 seconds. Tiktok just seems to be having a massive negative affect on the music industry.

[@tyler3876]

1:00, Trend chasing hasn’t necessarily gotten worse, it’s just more visible because the internet shows us everything going on, so even underground trend chasers might pop up in your periphery whereas the internet didn’t exist like this in the 20th century.

[@GizzyDillespee]

Tiktok is revenge for the Opium Wars, straight up

[@GizzyDillespee]

And we should call it Titkok instead, from now on...

[@okbruhh]

Tik Tok needs to go tbh. It’s ruining our brains as a society. I’m sick of the 1 minute attention pans everyone has at this point in time

[@Joshmidmf]

I promise you anyone that has a “short attention span” had a short attention span long before tiktok, short form media is not the reason.

[@Eulerstat]

Love the editing on this vid

[@mrchrri]

those intro graphics were top tier Mr Fantano. Give your editor a raise cause gah DAMN

[@MedalionDS9]

Tiktok is ruining... insert anything here.

[@user-tl6mp7kf7q]

and anything will be absolutely true

[@thefogman2992]

The concept of a pretentious attitude can easily become a paradox. It's often the ones who over use the word who actually have personal problems dealing with that attitude

[@GarryLarryBarry]

The best recording format is the one that inspires the artist the most.

[@biggiesmol]

Autotune, Swiss composers, artist who are brands rather than musicians, streaming. So many other things that lead to the state of what music is today, and TikTok is just a small part of the problem.

[@princegoatcheese9379]

Let's argue: strawberry rhubarb pie is the best pie ever invented.

[@DarthDoomSlayer64]

That's just common fact

[@jibblerino]

Agreed!

[@BeatsBySelim26]

Ok but can we admit Digbar is fire

[@jacobmajerczak7578]

big dick randy 🔥🔥🔥

[@davidberdavi]

A bad song idea is a still a bad song idea. tape nor digital will not change that. Sure, there are characteristics about tape that sonically can make something sound or feel "better", but it is also important to know that the tools does not make the man, but the man makes the tools. If you at its core have a great song, putting some elements or all elements to tape might elevate that song but not too that significant degree as some purists make it out to. It certainly will not make a bad song a good song.

[@woobharb]

TikTok genuinely has the worst music taste I think I’ve seen, probably ever. We have songs like Hot Shower, Way 2 Sexy, They Call me Tiago, and Yummy trending for entire months. I think I should also mention how they have massacred many songs by pitching the vocals up.

[@vulnerable2femboys]

Analog is digital. If you bought a vinyl record that was sold after the 90s, chances are, it was recorded, mixed and mastered digitally on a computer then printed on vinyl.

[@Randuski]

As far as the Tape vs protools thing, you can perfectly replicate the sound of tape, and make an album in a daw that is indistinguishable from real tape. That’s been the case for a while, and it is absolutely the case now.