Let's Compare Groove Boxes Under $500...One Catch, They Must Have A Song Mode

[@CausticCatastrophe]

i have recently encountered this exact problem.I love my daw, just want something to sketch song ideas. amazing in 2024 how hard it is to get poly chromatic sample playback and sampling into an instrument. Amazing when they dont have a song mode, and amazing when the memory and screens are so limited. Thanks for putting together this comparison, its a lot of work.

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Yeah, I feel like the groove box manufacturers could up their game a bit.

[@ghanezu]

Roland mv1,portable,mic ,song mode.

[@UrbanGarden-rf5op]

😀 You also scored extremely well with this video. A lot of relevant info presented in an very entertaining short form way. I had already bought the Seqtrak and a Roland S-1 for my ultimate portable-sit-in-the-park-on-a-warm-summer-day-jam-station. But it's always nice to have your decisions validated by a serious scientist😉 Update: Re: External MIDI keyboard control. Apparently there is a problem (mid-May 2024) in that each drum is on it’s own separate MIDI channel. I really don’t get Yamaha’s logic on this one. Except maybe for some dubious internal routing choices. They were MIDI pioneers and now they do this! I have an advanced MIDI (DIN cable based) patch bay/processor, the MIDITEMP MT16X, that can split/distribute the input signal to the channels of your choice. I’m sure there are newer (and cheaper) alternatives. Working in the garden, it struck me: Why not make a MIDI-channel-splitter-rerouter-for-the Yamaha-Seqtrack. Small box, no power needed, like the Anatek Pocket Pedals. I would buy one😎 Any takers? I also have a slight problem reading the grey text on the black buttons, (I like Black) when they're not lit up. Just thought this was good to know, before pulling the trigger on this one, Otherwise I'm, so far, very happy with my unit.

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Thanks Urban, glad you liked the video. I'm hoping Yamaha will introduce a higher end version of the Seqtrak with better buttons and an all metal housing. I get a little nervous putting mine in a backpack, but it is great to be able to take almost anywhere.

[@RichardCyberPunk]

I am very happy with my Roland Verselab MV-1.

[@nick2128]

I bought one when they 1st came out and I really liked it sounded awesome but a lot of menu diving but it did get easier . The biggest gripe I have with Roland is they don’t ever improve the software that is needed to use their equipment , it’s what you would expect in 2004

[@electromajick]

Model:Samples has 96 projects with 96 patterns per project but only 6 tracks. I feel like no matter which groovebox you get you will want to get a second groove box or something to compliment it with.

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

I think that is true, especially if you want to play live.

[@matthewwilson3673]

korg electribe could also be in this comparison and korg needs to update it

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Korgs been on a run lately with a lot of updates. Maybe that’s on their list for the future.

[@trevormalcolm4328]

Why no Model:Samples?

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

I originally had that in the list plus about 5 others and ended up trimming the list so I could get an actual video done! I ended up taking out boxes that were primarily drum machines vs full on groove boxes.

[@trevormalcolm4328]

I hear that. I was looking into getting a M:S over the SEQTRAK (I’m more sample based) I very much enjoyed your thoughts though!

[@Drrolfski]

Maybe it feels like cheating for this shoot out but if you bring a second hand MPC One (which costs around $400,-) into the equation then it will completely wipe the floor with any of these grooveboxes when it comes to functionality. The modern MPC platform, no matter what machine, is simply the closest you can get to a full DAW-in-a-box. Workflow wise though it's a whole different competition, highly dependent on personal taste.

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Second hand market is the way to go. Never would have been able to afford my Korg Triton years ago if not for a great deal on E-bay.

[@SimpleTrax]

Polyend tracker is the best groovebox.

[@992turbos]

Holy crap, this video would be half as long without the clip show

[@deaconlambeaux2716]

Surprisedthe verselab didn't make this list

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

I actually had it included along with the 1010 Blackbox and a few others, but cut anything over $500 out because the video would have gotten a lot longer.

[@jeffryarchambeau5441]

My Polyend Play is twice as good because I paid twice as much for it!😢😢😢

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

That was definitely not a great move from Polyend. I assume you’re referring to the huge price decrease when the play plus came out.

[@jeffryarchambeau5441]

​@@arcticfoxstudios2018 Too true... But I'm comforted by reports of bugs in the Plus.

[@the_glove]

Who on earth uses a song mode ?

[@RafaelRyvaa]

I have the opportunity to buy an Roland MC101 or Seqtrack, what you think it's worth more as a beginner who wants to chill and learn to make some beats? The Roland mc101 looks more robust, but the Seqtrack built in mic, price and instruments sound Worth it too.

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

That's a tough one. If you want something more robust, I would say go with the Roland. The build quality on the Seqtrak is definitely its weak point and most Roland gear is built pretty solid. The Seqtrak has more capability in this price range though and a full song mode, which might be a purchase decision. If you're just getting started, I think either one will keep you happy for awhile.

[@mellemellor]

I dont care about song mode. The whole point of dawless for me is to arrange, perform and semi improvise live like an instrument. Its not about getting a perfect mix, irs about feeling the music in the moment and riding the wave. 😊

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

A lot of people definitely use it that way.

[@ColdHaus]

id say 404mk2 is pretty dang close with all the new updates

[@DanielIvan707]

Akai Force

[@JeffyG]

Hmmm…. doesn’t meet your criteria, but I wonder if you can do more with GarageBand on an iPhone and some free AUV3 plugins? Just thinking about it…..not a GrooveBox, but if the results matter more than the composition method, might be tough to beat your iPhone for storage and flexibility.

[@FatalExit]

Your videos have definitely helped make me feel that the SeqTrak is a hell of a good purchase for its price range. As someone who has primarily been working in DAWs for music production and composing for half my life, I've only started to recently warm to the idea of spending a lot of time away from the workstation having fun with making music in a different way. I hope to order one in March and I hope you enjoy your own one!

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Thanks, glad my videos helped. Yeah, the Seqtrak is a lot of functionality for the price.

[@thepcgamer2169]

I own 3 groove boxes, i 1st started with the Novation Circuit Tracks. later i purchased the Roland MC 101 & last year i purchased the Akai MPC One + . Out of the 3 i prefer the MPC One + as it's more of work station /groove box with enough than i need.

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Lot of people like the MPC's. If I were going to get a high end box, I think it would be between the MPC and the Deluge.

[@thepcgamer2169]

@@arcticfoxstudios2018 Exactly, i always wanted a MPC but back in the 90s they was like 2 -3 grand & thats a hell of a price to pay till now, so i waited a very long time for one lol. Next year i might sell my MC 101 & upgrade to the MC 707😃😃

[@Antonio_Ortiz]

I had a similar trajectory: started with the Novation Circuit, then Polyend Play Plus (sold it almost immediately after the bugs and limitations were too much) then got the MPC One Plus which is a fantastic value. The Deluge looks like everything I wish the Polyend was.

[@CodingPhase]

Great channel bro 👍 this is the reason why youtube is amazing you never know when you going to bump in to a gem

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Thanks man, much appreciated.

[@Dagovernment]

I love my lofi 12, it's restrictions forced me out of my comfort zone and I found tricks to get patterns longer, but it's still lacking when getting a song with a middle 8 going. That being said I wouldn't change it, I think that's the beauty of groovebox's, all these different approaches to input method are fascinating and viewing them as individual instruments with their own quirks and restrictions I think is productive

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Both the LoFi 6 and 12 look really cool and they’re priced really well too. I gotta have my song mode though.

[@Dagovernment]

​@@arcticfoxstudios2018 Oh I hear you, I've resorted to using my old mpc 1000 to automate pattern changes. Yamaha have gone above and beyond with the seqtrak, I'm thinking of that damn thing every time I go to bed

[@JeffyG]

I also find GrooveBox hardware sucks, but I dare not say that out loud. My theory is they target non-musicians and folks with no computer skills, with a promise anybody can create hit songs. Somehow the technical fearful think learning a hardware GrooveBox is easier than a computer and DAW 😳

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

I have yet to find a groovebox that can beat a DAW in terms of speed and flexibility.

[@Shades289]

Someone wrote the comments Mv1 verselab Is your best choice

[@damelos4039]

What a great comparison video. Very informative and interesting. Lovin' the SEQTRAK and Polyend Play

[@ahorseman]

You've put that together in such an entertaining way. Was fun to watch! Thanks!

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Thanks, glad you liked the video.

[@all.day.day-dreamer]

I actually have 3 of these devices, the Seqtrak, EP133 KO2 and the Circuit Tracks. The Seqtrak is very fragile feeling and extremely lightweight, but very, very easy to pick up and start using. I love it. The $399 price point is a steal, all day long. The Novation Circuit can be bought for $200+ off eBay. A lot of this stuff gets bought and never used. I'm starting to move away from DAW to Dawless. My old setup was 4 x Akai Fires + FL and it was a very powerful live setup. I even accepted a gig a few years back where they paid me a stupid amount of money. I'm hoping for something even more powerful than the Seqtrak but with better storage options here in the near future.

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Just getting into the Seqtrak. The 8 song limit is almost enough for a full set. Would have liked to see a 15 or 20 song limit, but I’ll take what I can get.

[@benrabary]

You're definitely right, a solid platinum solid grand piano wouldn't replace the 404 😅, but really nice video...the seqtrak seems to be really interesting

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

WINNING!

[@j3LLy404]

This was a really good comparison video. A rare treasure these days

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Michel-r6m]

The Roland SH-4d is also a nice one.

[@agh8459]

As much as I love my SH-4D the most glaring problem to me is the lack of a song mode. Especially at its price point. It an amazing synth engine, a good number of presets and effects, and has a really accessible "knobby" interface. But you've really got to attach it to something else to get the best out of it. It's also much more expensive than the ones in this comparison.

[@Michel-r6m]

@@agh8459 Not perfect but the most fun gear I bought in six or so years.

[@ijazzmunki]

Brilliant video - I think your jaded tone is fully justified! I love Elektron gear but sold my Digitakt and Digitone - I loved them and made a lot of music on them but I always ended up recording everything in Ableton! I’m now thinking of getting a small groove box as I do enjoy working DAW-less but the cheaper ones have too many shortcomings and the expenditures ones are just way too expensive!

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Thanks. For convenience, it's really hard to beat a DAW.

[@ildarkinildarkin]

Devices that have synth engines are another level for me and winners for me are Seqtrack , OPZ and Rhythm

[@littlehopeleft]

Smpltrek guy here. Had 404 Mk2, Mc101 and Circuit rhythm and sold them all. Given I am not a performing artist. Smpltrek is ugly AF, small knobs are mitigated by buying new ones. Big plus for me is portability, on board mic and speaker, live looping with ability to rerecording on the fly, drum pads, naming the samples upon saving. Big minus is no performance effects, micro USB, no synth. Currently eagerly awaiting my Woovebox since POKO2 is no longer "Pocket".

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Woovebox looks interesting. I almost went with a Smpltrek, but opted for a Seqtrak instead.

[@The_artist_called_The_Engineer]

Great video. I have an Mc101 (surprised it and the 707 weren’t part of the comparison)and it’s the backbone of my setup, I do use it with a Daw so tend to do my song construction there, however scene chaining comes very close to song mode. I got a woovebox this week so the MC101’s days might be numbered and I’d love to get a SeqTrak but I don’t think it gives me a whole lot over the mc101.

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Thanks! The 101 and 707 are pretty high on my to purchase list, but the whole song mode thing has been holding me back from getting one. I think they arguably have the best synth engines in a groove box for the price. How is the song writing process with it? I assume it’s one pattern chain per project which isn’t an issue in studio work, but could be if you use it live and load times for projects are long.

[@The_artist_called_The_Engineer]

You have scenes which comprise clips and you can then chain the scenes in any order so it’s a song mode in all bar name. These days I’ll just program a scene for intro, verse, chorus, middle eight etc, record them into reaper then arrange the song structure there.

[@The_artist_called_The_Engineer]

If you’re interested in the end results I’m on Spotify, Apple Music and most other streaming services under the artist name the engineer

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

@@The_artist_called_The_Engineer good name!

[@damelos4039]

@@The_artist_called_The_Engineer That's my workflow too.....but in Ableton.

[@maciekjankowskitomkow4107]

I think that if yamaha makes some kind of seqtrak pro with chromatic sample playing, better build quality, better keys and maybe some screen, they are up to make the best groovebox on the market

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

It would at least be on par with the MPC.

[@SlaserX]

Now try finding a sequencer for just using external gear. Theres soo many great grooveboxes out there, but if you want to use one to control a studio worth of synths, you're up a creek. It literally doesn't make sense to me. I'm partial to some older grooveboxes, like the RM1X

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Have you seen the Oxi One? I haven't dug too deeply into that one yet, but it looks pretty powerful and a number of creators are saying its one of the best sequencers for controlling a lot of gear.

[@MathHammer]

You live in Houghton? Do you teach at Michigan Tech or something? We visited there with our oldest and he got into the school but decided to go to University of Minnesota, Twin Cities instead. Now he is a Ph.D. student at University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. We left MN in 2016 for the West Coast and a new role for me in Silicon Valley.

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Yes, in the Keweenaw Peninsula. I don't teach there, but did go to school there a long time ago and know a number of professors. I continue the teaching process when they graduate and come work for me ;) My daughter-in-law just graduated from U of M.

[@MathHammer]

So my Sweetwater guy contacted me that he got a small quantity of Seqtrak units in and I ordered one. It arrived late this afternoon. I haven’t done much but start it up, press play, mess with some effects, and connect it via Bluetooth to the app on my iPad. It is surprisingly light and feels like a plastic toy. I guess for me it sort of is exactly that.

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Yeah, I'm not too impressed with the build quality myself. I haven't done a whole lot with mine yet but hope to mess around with it this weekend.

[@javonscott4777]

Missed Roland mv-1

[@Shades289]

Yes he did It's a whole workstation for 599$

[@technosignature]

Oh man I have family up in Ontonagon, got a follow for being a yooper. Solid video man,

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Awesome. I’ve got several jobs going near Ontonagon. Thanks!

[@mrclaytron]

I think its worth a person saving their pennies and stepping up to a higher price range and buying a Deluge or Maschine+... Really worth the extra money in my opinion

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Absolutely, most of the time you get what you pay for.

[@jello-tarzan]

This comment is to add a second thumb up for this excellent video.❤😊

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Thanks Tarzan.

[@romannietoperz4675]

where`s OG polyend tracker? currently you can get new one in value of 350eu and it got proper song mode

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Love to know where you can get a new one for that low. Right now the mini is $550 on sale but the OG is $800 at Sweetwater and Perfect Circuit.

[@romannietoperz4675]

@@arcticfoxstudios2018 ok, in europe we got different prices obviously, new OG in music stores are priced like I stated in previous comment. probably you got some taxes or fees for importing it from EU (it origin is Poland)

[@Tripwelleverday]

I wish the rd8 sampled

[@Tuvalu977]

Thank you so much for compiling those extensive comparison tables, that's priceless!

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

You're very welcome. I'm glad people find it useful.

[@DarkFutureConsolidated]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3ysp6GCd6tqrLc

[@kentxx12]

Hey Arctic Fox : A Very good overview of the different functions of these groove boxes,keep it coming :)

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Thanks!

[@PeterJensen7]

I agree these are basically procrastination devices and none compare to any decent DAW with a decent small controller. If you actually are trying to make commercially viable music. But if you are procrastinating, then fighting through the workflow, arcane vulcan neck pinches and quirks will add to the challenge satisfactorily.

[@jonasharp3]

Subbed cause Bitwig honestly

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Bitwig is pretty cool.

[@freezerman5871]

Interesting video, but what exactly do you call 'song mode' and how/why is it different than pattern chaining?

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

It's different machine to machine. Pattern chaining in some devices is equivalent to song mode in others. You wouldn't know that without a lot of research or if you owned every single one of these boxes. Most of the time, pattern chaining refers to just being able to chain one string of patterns per project, or one song per project. On the Seqtrak and the Play for sure you can save multiple songs in a single project and they have sufficient copy and paste tools to make it fairly easy to create the chain too. Thus I would say they have a 'true' song mode. The KO II doesn't have a song mode or pattern chaining, but you can create a 99 bar pattern, which essentially means you can create a full song, but it's a total pain to do that and it takes hours and hours to set up. Anyway, long answer, hope that helps some.

[@freezerman5871]

@@arcticfoxstudios2018 Thanks, I see your point. OPZ definitely has a very good song mode then, and also (that you did not review) the PO33/133 that have major memory (and backup) limitations, but do offer quite advanced song building options if you think about it. Indeed the EP133 hits low in that domain (and it was a major let down to me), especially considering that copy/paste bars and navigating within a sequence/scene is just not practical if your sequence is long.

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

@@freezerman5871 that is exactly the problem I have with it. To me it’s useless to use live without having a backup.

[@MysteryD]

3:14 I am wearing this same exact shirt right now

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

HA, That's cool.

[@InRoB-Music]

If you don‘t click with a hardware box you can sell it, it is not a bad thing.. software is loosing cash because of the age and you can‘t sell these as easy as hardware.. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@MoeThermodynamics]

That's just if you're planning to sell your hardware. Musicians like to have options. Buying and keeping 2 100$ plugins isn't the same as having to sell your 200$ pedal so you can afford the $400 one, because then you couldn't use both in your music at the same time

[@Tripwelleverday]

Have u seen the nunomo qunmk2

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

No I had not. I just looked it up. It looks pretty cool, especially for the price.

[@pascaljean2333]

You can sell software on reverb.😢

[@knutmilbredt3353]

Well done man.

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Thanks, glad you liked the video!

[@layfeynar]

MC-303

[@ProFleer-ep4wq]

Seqtrak here I come.

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Did you order one?

[@ProFleer-ep4wq]

Not yet. Part of my next order thanks to your review. It was another great one, by the way. Simply love your unique mix of info and fun. And the lack of ads.

[@MusicPerson233]

Very cheap feeling and about 50% have a key that doesn't work under the record key. I have one returning it

[@ALKADEEM317]

Was already thinking of getting a smpltrek and this video helped with that decision dont really need a synth as i already have a micro and minifreak from arturia and was looking for a sampler/groovbox to complete my G.A.S journey great vid btw 👍🏽👌🏽

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Thanks! Cool that you're getting new gear. Just got my Seqtrak but haven't had a chance to play with it much yet.

[@spacekid5609]

It's a great device but beware of the unsmooth sequencer.. hopefully they'll fix it with an uptade

[@inputsandoutputs]

How exactly did you take yourself seriously making this video without including Roland Verselab?

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

I never take myself seriously...but seriously, I did have it on the list with the 1010 Blackbox and several others, but ended up cutting everything above $500 just to keep the length of the video down.

[@inputsandoutputs]

@@arcticfoxstudios2018 well your video is misleading

[@thegreatsiberianitch]

I have the Roland Verselab and I love the Roland Verselab but even Roland doesn't take it seriously. How did the company that makes the sp404 put such a garbage sampler on the Verselab? How do they not have track muting in song mode? Both things could easily be fixed or added, but when was the last firmware update? The Verselab is Roland's redheaded step child and it's basically been forgotten by anyone except the ppl who bought it cause it was on sale and they didn't want to spend the extra money on an Elektron device, like myself. And the UI is a hot mess. Menu diving, no, menu cave-diving. Oh no! I meant to chang the eq on the snare, not the whole kit! Oh bother! And I've knackered my compression settings! A rose? A rose packed to the hilt with thorns!!!

[@e-conrecords4665]

Research your hardware thoroughly first. Go to a store and play it if you can before you shell out cash. Simples! Budget (within reason) doesn’t make sense. You’re not going to die if you save for an extra month or so to buy something with a better build and more features than an entry level unit that you’ll grow out of quicker than it will take you to afford next tier gear.

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Sound advice. Unfortunately, not everyone has a music store close by. The nearest music store to me is 6 hours away, thus I make research videos that will hopefully help other gear buyers.

[@Tripwelleverday]

Octatrack for the win daws can’t touch it

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

The high end boxes are pretty nice.

[@nienienie7567]

there are non-akai products out there!? Whoaaaa hollup wtf?!

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

LOL, those Akai boxes seem to be regarded as the "industry standard" since they are so powerful. That and the Digitakts. Tons of people swear by those.

[@damelos4039]

@@arcticfoxstudios2018Yep, got my Digitakt too. Doin' a dep dive in the morning.

[@cecilia_mackie]

Hey! That’s awesome! Shall we be friends?