Let's talk about NYC street vendors....

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[@andrearepetto217]

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist." -Hélder Pessoa Câmara

[@snowflakes1709]

Who is they?

[@darrkstarg]

@@snowflakes1709 They are the poor that are doing what the rich people told them to do so the rich can stay rich in order to keep the poor poor.

[@thexalon]

@@snowflakes1709 Most likely, the "they" refers to the right-wing military junta he was living under who later murdered one of his fellow priests for his social justice work.

[@vforwombat9915]

@@snowflakes1709 "Who is they?" Fred, Sally, Mike, Erwin, and Isabella.

[@frostyfrances4700]

I'll take a good communist over any fascist oinker in the world any day of the week.

[@admiralpaco507]

Food regulations and licensing aren't inherently bad. But regulatory capture and greed can twist even good ideas into bad ones and that's what this looks like to me.

[@Bynming]

I'm a policy analyst and I have to say that while I'm not opposed to food-related regulation, it's no secret that large cities like NYC tend to overdo it because regulation is a large part of their power. I've seen how those things get written and oftentimes they don't think of the consequences. They just think up some BS and they assume it'll work. No experts, only lawyers. No case studies. No research. Just lawyers.

[@-Zevin-]

@@Bynming I used to live in South east Asia. I ate street food every single day. There was probably 50 vendors within a 10minute walk from my apartment. Usually as simple as a cart with wheels with a stove top. I was fine, only once in a year did I get bad food poisoning and the most Ironic part was, it was from a nice sit down Italian restaurant and I ate Pizza... go figure.

[@moosevision8113]

yep, in a tourist destination like NYC a certain number of their customers are going to be first time buyers who will likely never see them again, so the idea of people with a bad experience not going back isnt going to make much difference if the people with a good experience are not going back either. also food poisoning can do permanent serious damage to the body so when that occurs through bad food hygiene the vendor needs to be held accountable

[@tomorrowhowever7488]

Street vendors and bodegas are essential in "food desert " areas. The large grocery chains don't want the competition. Most of the people who live in those areas do not own vehicles. It may take 3+ hours for a grocery run using public transportation. One person can only carry so much at a time. Having to do that 2-3x per week and work full time... well, y'all can see the problem.

[@Pyre]

I can't stress enough how important this information is for someone who solely thought of 'food deserts' as 'those desolate rural spaces in Kentucky and elsewhere like it'. Literal eye-opener.

[@LambieSamba]

ABSOLUTELY! Even the Dollar stores hate vendors, people buying fruit and vegetables instead of sugar-carb Pseudo food they sell!

[@jdd8826]

I live in a neighborhood of Boston. There is one supermarket. Often food quality of fish and produce is so questionable I report it, and post a note in the lobby of my building. Once saw evidence of repackaging fresh meat, giving it new dates. I purchased it, called every city agency I could think of, showed it to everyone I could think of- pre mobile phone. Then I called a TV station and offered the package with visible evidence of tampering. Karma rules!

[@julietfischer5056]

You'd be surprised what's hard to find inside city limits. Need gas? Buy it before you're searching downtown for a pump. Groceries? Nobody's leasing to Kroger or Food Lion when they can get far more from other businesses. So there are no proper grocery stores on the way to the bus or train.

[@worldcitizenra]

This is a key point to remember every time anyone hears a big corporation or corporate obligated politician start talking about deregulating businesses and corporations. The big corporations don't really want deregulation. They want regulation. They love regulation. But only the kind of regulation that allows them to dominate their markets and makes it unnecessary for them to have to compete with other businesses, especially small businesses.

[@bramharms72]

I'm from the EU, "American Food Safety Standards" aren't a joke here, they're a horror story.

[@MeldaRavaniel]

And a lot of the reason we have to have them is because of the terrible conditions our food animals are raised in, so the food safety regulations address symptoms, not the cause. We don't require chickens to be vaccinated for salmonella, despite the estimated cost of pennies per bird. Instead, they have to wash our eggs and chicken in an attempt to reduce that. Cows are fed a diet of mostly corn, which makes the pH of their rumen acidify, giving them ulcers and allowing bacteria access to their bloodstream. That, and they're chronically sick, so they have them on constant low-dose antibiotics, which make for antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria. And those bacteria are in the poo, and they get into the water supply that gets sprayed on vegetable crops and now you have contaminated lettuce. Yay. I'm sure there are other causes of contamination, but to me this justifies my Soapbox: reasons for Americans to reduce our meat intake or only get it from small, local farms, if possible. And call our legislators and participate in local gvmt.

[@foresterofthenorth1004]

I went to the EU a few years ago, and the food tasted so much better than it does here in the US. I wish the US had the standards the EU does when it comes to food.

[@Joe--]

@@MeldaRavaniel Good to be informed; so many things wrong with the food supply 😓

[@the_grand_tourer]

@@foresterofthenorth1004 Sadly this is what happens when you hand food standards to the corporations, no flavour but lots of it, quantity is valued more than quailty.

[@expatpiskie]

Hence the outrage in the UK when Boris Johnson proposed importing food from the USA post-Brexit.

[@kathryncasey4114]

The food I get off a truck or buy out of some ones garden usually tastes much better than the stuff at the big store. When I see children with a small table selling the avocados out of their back yard I know I'm onto something tasty.

[@kathryncasey4114]

@@skillcoiler Thanks for that valuable addition. What you say is often true. Fifty years ago I worked in a grocery store that offered lower prices and better quality than what the wholesalers were offering restauranteurs and small markets. I can tell by looking if it is the overly large and pretty crap that comes from industrial agriculture. There is a fellow who sneaks into town with a small flatbed and parks for a few minutes at several spots around town. Word travels fast in a tiny town. He doesn't speak much English and he is unlicensed and uninspected. He only sells what he has picked up here and there along his route. His produce often looks inferior but if it is on his truck I know it's tasty. The bureaucrats would be clutching their pearls and spouting fear at the very notion. We have learned the hard way that bureaucrats don't know much about food safety. I may not know this man's language but I trust his food.

[@picolascage8123]

I made a solid living growing and selling mostly watermelons and purple hull peas in my teens. I can’t imagine the government coming and throwing it away...

[@joshk.6246]

Yeah and the likelihood of you getting E-coli or Salmonella, because of growing location and lack of corporate farm practices, is pretty slim.

[@kathryncasey4114]

@@joshk.6246 I treat all produce from unknown sources as potentially contaminated. I wash produce before storing it. I inspect carefully for clues and I have a compost pile for anything I'm not confident about. It is my belief that families who produce food for their own consumption and sell their surplus through a local gray market vendor will provide a safer and more nutritious product than can be produced by Industrial corporate agriculture. I have always done a lot of bicycle touring. Sometimes the conditions that migratory farm workers are living and working under would make it difficult if not impossible to give thought to the well being of my tummy. The food I buy from individuals is often more expensive but of much greater value than what is available at monster mart.

[@jdd8826]

My PCA, health aide, was driving me home from a medical appt. She pulled up at her Aunt's house. I could see rows of tomato plants way back from the street. She went through the gate and came back with an armful of tomatoes. Wash them off, get out the salt shaker- not too much, and chomp away over the sink or with a towel. Yummm...

[@nickpacitti3247]

In the not so rural “Garden State” we buy produce, seafood and pies on the side of the road from pickups/ stands all summer long 👍👍✌️

[@wadestanton]

In the very rural "Peace Garden State" the dumpsters at the Community Gardens hold enough good produce to fill many people freezers for the winter. Just a heads up to those physically able to dumpster dive. Last week I suggested a table on which to place the produce, the gardeners are throwing away, I was told by the county extension at our gardener meeting, it would attract the wrong kind of people.

[@ajchapeliere]

Out in Cali it's about the same. Some cities might have ordinances I don't know about but statewide, I think you only need a permit if you're selling at a farmers market or marketing your produce with some sort of regulated qualifier like "organic." Only other big barrier I can think of for backyard farmers is basically zoning ordinances and those thrice-damned HOA's.

[@grass7864]

@@wadestanton "The wrong kind of people" is what we're calling the unemployed and poor during this pandemic? Great.

[@wadestanton]

@@grass7864 I just received the minutes, from the meating,in the mail. One thing was missing ie. After talk of the 'wrong type' of people, Dale related to the group how he was able to get the homeless guy, staying on the street, using our porta-potty, to move by putting his AR15 in a gun rack in back window of his pickup. He bragged how the guy, an old guy with walker, was gone the next morning. He actually was bragging about the display of a weapon to intimidate a person. In the peace garden state such a thing is completely legal.

[@scottf3456]

Thats right Nick. I'm in NJ too and peaches this year were awesome! There's a lady in the area, she sells corn on the side of her house in suburbs. Has for years. Everybody goes to the corn lady.

[@lost_at_ssea]

with so many purple going hungry, this is so sad. and with people complaining no one wants to work or support small business. At one time I worked retail and the amount of perfectly good product they destroy instead of donate in the name of saftey was gut wrenching. I would complain all the time, but it didn't matter.

[@BETTERWORLDSGT]

I know what You mean, tremendous amounts of food gets trashed from Supermarkets and Restaurants too, they don't want Homeless People to get it or face any liability from anyone.

[@kathryncasey4114]

As a teenager in the sixties part of my job at the grocery store was to take out the trash. Gee I wonder how all that food ended up on top of the wall? I must have missed the dumpster completely. I am so clumsy. It disappeared quickly. I think my boss knew what I was doing and secretly approved. I knew a restaurant manager who was rather sneaky about giving food out the back door to folks who were happy to get leftovers. Sometimes breaking the rules is the right thing to do.

[@Lynwood_Jackson]

@@kathryncasey4114 it's akin to talking about the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law. It's somehow criminal to give food to people who are hungry, but it's a damn crime that they're hungry in the first place.

[@kathryncasey4114]

@@Lynwood_Jackson I like the way you think. Us humans seem to focus on symptoms and ignore the cause.

[@elainegoad9777]

People want to work for a living wage, full time, benefits and child care 24/7

[@l.a.gothro3999]

Food waste sucks when there's so many hungry people around.

[@Lynwood_Jackson]

by your handle, I assume you're in CA. Do you know if they're still spraying grocery store dumpsters with bleach to keep hungry people from eating the food therein? I know they were a decade ago, but I haven't asked lately.

[@curtiscarlson8958]

@@Lynwood_Jackson mmm dumpster delights. You know the bleach on fruits and vegitables can be washed off. a cap of bleach in a sink of water when soaking/thawing chicken helps lower the odds of salmonella being present when you slap that bird on the cutting board. Spraying it on the Garbage itself probably is a cheap and fairly safe way of keeping the flies down. So dont worry too much. Any more it is easier for me to just go in the front door and buy the stuff, but I havent always been so lucky, there were times i couldnt even afford bleach for my rinse.

[@chimera91977]

@@Lynwood_Jackson depends on the store. They started locking the garbage dumpsters in cages so people wouldn't have access. They got a lot of publicity, so a lot of them turned to "donating" the near expired food into the local food banks. The optics are better that way, than locking up the dumpsters behind your business.

[@ottodidakt3069]

food waste sucks period, it's disrespectful to life on all levels !

[@Lynwood_Jackson]

@@curtiscarlson8958 for sure, but that doesn't get you far when you don't have a sink to wash your dumpstered food in. Plenty of my friends got sick from eating food contaminated by bleach. Stores weren't doing it for the flies, either. The practice became common during the last major recession when there was a massive influx of newly poor and homeless people. They also started calling the cops on people living on the street near businesses and groups like Food Not Bombs who would feed people on the weekends. We were told by the police that the businesses didn't like us there because we "encouraged" homeless and otherwise hungry people to eat with us. You can see the legislative result of these bastards in places like Florida where it's no longer legal to feed hungry people in public spaces.

[@tygrkhat4087]

"If your customers don't recover, they probably won't buy from you again." Beau is a master at understatement.

[@joeo3377]

But what happens if you don't care about that? What if your business model is to always find a new mark? If I can get some cheap, poor quality food that makes people sick, and sell it to desperate people for a markup, and if I'm mobile enough to never see the same customer twice even if I didn't make them sick, then I could still turn a profit. How could you stop me?

[@mercedeslewis4598]

@@joeo3377 precisely. Beau is glossing over the possibilities of death, lifelong medical issues such as an ostomy bag, and permanent gastrointestinal distress that can occur from food poisoning. These pickup trucks carry liability? Of course not. The more established places are more established because they follow the food safety rules, which are not as cheap as whatever to whoever, whenever. But the consumer should have a right to tainted foods. I guess.

[@cariwaldick4898]

@@joeo3377 But....how does the extensive permitting process and fees prevent any of this? I'm fine with them needing some specifics on the vendor, and even an insurance requirement--in order to hold them accountable--but all the other hoops they're expected to jump through don't help anyone. They could inspect a store or food cart one day, and the next day they could be selling tainted food. There are no guarantees.

[@ronaldlogan3525]

they could come back in zombie form, but then they would be looking for brains to eat, not fresh veggies.

[@joeo3377]

@@cariwaldick4898 And laws against homicide don't guarantee you won't get murdered. What they do is provide a legal path for authorities to rectify the situation and to assign fault when something does go wrong. If I'm operating without a permit and someone gets sick, that becomes my fault. If I'm operating with a permit and someone gets sick, that becomes the fault of the permit issuer. We can't stop bad things from happening. Laws exist so that we can hold people accountable when bad things do happen, and so that the form of accountability fits the severity of the harm that occurred. By no means do we have a perfect system, there are plenty of things that can be done to improve upon existing laws, but it is far better than having nothing. It's very possible that the permitting laws in NYC should be changed! I don't know the details. However, when we're discussing the principle of the permits, we have to understand why they exist in the first place. And the primary reason is because population density makes it very easy for unscrupulous people to exploit those around them. (I am not calling the fruit stand owners unscrupulous)

[@certs743]

Up here in Canada the two biggest breweries in the country tried to push a "safety bill" that just happened to have requirements you would need a billion dollar corporation to be in compliance with. They were trying to take out the craft beer industry that has come up in recent years as technology makes it feasible as a small business venture. Fortunately people saw through it and it failed to pass.

[@mikegardiner6046]

From a standpoint of "food safety expert"- audits do help larger chain restaurants and food retailers keep things safe. You don't always have staff that cares enough (*paid enough) to keep things safe and clean. Unfortunately it goes across the board, if a restaurant has to follow certain policies and procedures so do the little fruit vendors. I do think it is a lot of corporate benefitting bullshit. Food should always be given every opportunity to be eaten before it gets thrown away. Even of its given away

[@certs743]

I used to work in kitchens and I know the law will be different from country to country and state to state (or province to province up here in Canada) but I think you might be able to get around that by requiring that an business meet a standard of cleanliness versus a check list of how many sinks you have per square foot or how big your walk in freezer is. That way you could make it easier to still be in compliance across very different business types. I also learned that most food born illness is a result of improper storage and handling after the fact and not usually at the food vendor level.

[@mandisaw]

I don't blame Sanitation on this one - the City hires these part-time outside inspectors who don't know how to handle nuanced situations. They also have no ties to the community, so wouldn't know that there are a bunch of churches, synagogues & community orgs in a 5-block radius. Same issue with the contracted Buildings inspectors who didn't spot the flooding/egress risks to basements before Ida last month.

[@trueriver1950]

@@mandisaw in .Manchester England we have enforcement officers on commission out of the fines they stick on ppl. That is not exactly an incentive for them to use discretion compassionately :(

[@peterthegreat996]

@@certs743 most food borne illness is worker hygiene followed by improper heating and cooling of food , then storage , then cross contamination. Vendor issues can and do occur but HACCP records are important ( 90 days worth in the federal standard) and seafood is probably the most likely issue .

[@sunshynff]

Little parallel to the topic but interesting, psyche plays into it also, the same as we are attracted to certain other humans, so goes the same brain function for desirable looking nourishment. John Oliver did a story on food waste and referenced a study where a fruit or veggie with a mark or oddly shaped, not affecting the edible parts at all, were almost always sold last if at all. In the same study the same exact piece of fruit or veggie at a farmers market was not bought once when placed by itself in a crate, as if it were the last one, but immediately was bought when placed in a full crate. The thought being our psyche tells us there must be something wrong with it if no one else bought it. Crazy how primal parts of our brain are still in use in today's society.

[@Anonarchist]

The health department gives every place that serves food in town perfect 100% scores, even the sketchiest buffets and gas stations. My experience working in one of the sketchiest buffets, the owner takes the health inspector back to his office, the inspector leaves with their wad of cash though the crowd of staff smoking their cigarettes in the kitchen, and the restaurant gets a perfect 100% score.

[@Alverant]

So who's to blame, the government accepting the bribes or the business offering them?

[@cheriann6461]

@@Alverant Both, though the officials are MORE unethical, because it is their job to protect the public.

[@altongary]

@@sue2613 i agree. ive seen the places that don't get the A's. those places usually dont post the notice saying they failed inspection. dont eat in those places; their dirtiness is not propaganda. Also mobile food vendors also get a letter grade and are subject to inspection. That doesnt mean that local businesses dont sic OATH officers on any competition that appears; thats a time honored tradition in NYS in counties republican and democrat.

[@lindavestal8139]

At a time when so many people do not have access to fresh fruit and vegetables--the city should be rewarding vendors for supplying this need, not the opposite. Again, greed is the religion of this country.

[@fredericrike5974]

OK, Linda, I agree with you! Now help construct and write a set of laws that will give our inspectors the tools to make large scale producers allow complete and thorough inspections that won't put "onerous restrictions" at the "mom and pop" level operators. I'm not being sarcastic- I'm being realistic; we cannot license and inspect the one and not the other- it CANNOT be done within Constitutional law without creating the dreaded "special class" that several SCOTUS' have struck down- and even RBG voted in favor of! FR

[@Caperhere]

Agribusinesses throw out huge quantities of fruit/veg if it isn’t perfectly shaped, or coloured, too.

[@jorenvanderark3567]

Shape makes sense, that is about ease of transportation. But coloured? WTF.

[@thorsteinmortensen4399]

@@jorenvanderark3567 its not about a good shape for transport, its for the "optimal" shape consumers want.

[@user-bg3rp2qj5b]

@hognoxious this and I agree that people are often put off by anything that doesn’t resemble the color of the fruit or vegetable that they often see in picturesque photo shoots done for advertising. Like purple potatoes, purple carrots or the green ketchup that Heinz experimented with years ago. This is why even though I know how idiotic city ordinances are, cities should still allow local farmers markets so people can walk around and view the many array of fruits, vegetables, and other products that these vendors can show off. They provide the local area the ability to not be in a enclosed supermarket and see what’s not normally at the major food chains.

[@kevin537]

Not defending NYC's system, it is likely a mess and I have no knowledge of it. The general intent of food permitting is to track back to a source if there is a problem and hopefully prevent escalation, not prevent a problem in the first place. It makes contact tracing faster and easier. There are regular outbreaks that never make the news, and when you have population concentrations like NYC things can go very poorly very quickly.

[@belladonnatook8851]

I do not condone waste at any level, but I sure do appreciate your being "fair" to NYC. Thank you!

[@mattja52]

What has more significance, feeding the hungry or profit margin, the latter is the love of America, the world, ingrained in its culture. Don't say both, we all know better!

[@DonP_is_lostagain]

When I was stationed at Columbus AFB in Mississippi back in the mid-70's, I rented this little house. Next to it was a couple or three acres of farm fields. Mostly watermelon, corn, and cotton. To get to the fields, the farmer had to use my driveway. Every harvest season and throughout the summer, whenever they'd come and harvest some of the crop, they always left a watermelon, and six ears of corn. Every time. I never met them as this would happen during the day when my then wife and I were at work. I also never saw a food safety notice or inspection report on my door. And both were right tasty. Growing up in the South, buying produce or seafood from the back of a pickup, or panel truck, or farm vehicle was just something you did. But, when you get governments involved you get the bean counters finding ways to make ever more $$ for the government. And they always seem to be in bed with local large scale growers.

[@DJ-cd6gk]

I remember a time where people would be giving away food from trees or fields because they had more than what they knew what to do with.

[@BETTERWORLDSGT]

In the Eighties We used to sell Purple Hull peas out of the Truck in town (6$ a Bushel) when I was living in Arkansas, perfectly normal.

[@stephaniecruvant9130]

When I lived in Galveston County l routinely bought my shrimp on the docks, right off the boat that just came in. Delicious!!

[@HastyChester]

Whether or not they are "in bed" with the large producers, the fees for permits will benefit the large producers by being a barrier to entry for small producers - effectively benefitting the large producers. Like laws and ordinances that disproportionately affect the poor, these disproportionately affect the smaller businesses. If the price for the permits was staggered or not flat-rate; maybe based off a percentage of estimated annual sales, it could level some of the cost and still promote competition. I'm sure there'd be problems with that, too - I was just throwing out an idea.

[@RedHeart64]

Based on the things I read when I was working on my M.A., it was first the corporations ("large scale growers") getting the rules enacted that benefited, then the government wanting their cut. Big market stores might be cheaper, but their product quality reflects their lust for profit overwhelming their desire to sell good foods. I swear that in the last 50-60 years, food has become more and more tasteless, unless you are really careful with your sources. (Fresh home-grown is best, but in many cases it's no longer possible or even restricted by rules.)

[@BlueDirt_ProAggressive]

Isn't that is reason Garner was tackled and choked out. He was selling single cigarettes.

[@NotSoMuchFrankly]

I don't think cigarettes fall under the category of "food safety concerns". I think that has something to do w/ umm...racism or something?

[@BlueDirt_ProAggressive]

@@NotSoMuchFrankly meant the reason cops used as probably cause was the cigs, which lead to everything else.

[@matt2027]

That was the pretense, yeah. I wouldn’t exactly say it was the reason.

[@NotSoMuchFrankly]

The Eric Garner tragedy really did have nothing to do w/ cops protecting big tobacco. *They're* still making $ off the ciggies. By selling cigs bought wholesale and selling them loose at retail or less, people are able to avoid reporting the income and paying the taxes and IIRC there was some other reason it was made illegal is some areas. The reasoning has nothing to do with "can you prove those cigarettes are safe to smoke?" This video was about "how does busting up the little guy keep people safe? Where I'm from, we do things this way and you never hear about massive food poisoning and death from a local guy's small farm." I usually agree with Beau, but here I can spot *some* flaw in his reasoning. Like someone elsewhere in this discussion pointed out, many places you can get a cheap license to sell and compete with big grocery chains that hate that. (The grocery stores in some places in NYC are tiny! Visiting a friend years ago who had moved there had to explain to his friend how the supermarkets where we were from "really. are. *super.* I found it amusing.) Plus, people do love to pay extra to buy from farmers markets to buy local and supposedly fresher but idk about that last part. I also know they do have legal street vendors in NYC and I was hoping Beau would for the first time show or at least reference the video he was referring to. Being on record makes outbreaks traceable so, yeah, they should have to declare that they are selling food, as long as the fee is only nominal to offset record keeping costs just in case. This morning I woke up to find that cilantro will give you Salmonella. (Just don't let fish touch your vegetables while they're spawning. Duh!) It's already affected 20+ states! A couple years ago it was Romaine from AZ. Then they know where to focus preventative measures since they can't just wait for it to happen again and again since they don't have the resources to guess and check all the farmers and all the supply chain to find out the source. If a local guy is spreading typhoid in a small neighborhood at least they can find out the source more easily than in a big city or multiple state area. tl;dr The problem w/ ensuring food safety is lax enforcement or poor regulation. Don't send racists to kill people to protect your tax appropriations and big companies.

[@NotSoMuchFrankly]

On weak and ineffective regulation, I'll reference a video here on YT by lawyer Steve Lehto regarding a restaurant that was poisoning people for *11 years* that safety officials knew about.

[@christineesposito8169]

When I was young vendors traveled the allies of Chicago bringing us any number of wares. I remember standing with my mom and our neighbors as they shopped and talked, a true social experience.

[@christineesposito8169]

@@sue2613 Even our doctor made house calls.

[@paznewis107]

Hello from Scotland bonny lad 👍

[@pattoneill2402]

Brick and mortar businesses despise the vendors outside their door because of the competition. They are always behind such incidents of persecution of street vendors.

[@mandisaw]

Right motive, wrong industry - it was the clothing shops who called for the crackdown on street vendors. This woman just got caught up in it.

[@mandisaw]

That corner is a hub - there are two supermarkets on that block alone. Nobody is hurting for business there.

[@BETTERWORLDSGT]

We need to make it easier in this Country for People to earn a dollar, especially in these difficult times, there are to many permits and requirements, a number of other Countries it is easier. Safety regulations are important, but it's been taken way to far.

[@karenl7786]

Well I can tell you here in Chicago the restaurant industry itself is a powerful force. They have practically almost eliminated any type of food truck or street vendor opportunity for decades.

[@tommyob4762]

@@mandisaw They don't need to hurt. It's American greed

[@Lynwood_Jackson]

It is a sham. My first job when I was 13 was stocking produce for a wholesaler and selling it for him on the weekends at farmer's markets at his retail locations. Most of the produce was gotten through... let's say, unauthorized channels, and a good bit of it was rotten. The owner would tell us to fill the bushels with the rotten stuff first and put the nicest fruits or veggies on top to make it look appealing. Everyone who worked there was under the legal working age, didn't have a work permit, and/or was here by less than legal means. We worked 14 hour days with no breaks, sold bad food, everyone's employment was unlawful for one reason or another, and the owner was otherwise a tax cheat. He paid off the right people though, so almost 20 years later he's still in business.

[@klalbritton]

We could literally solve hunger issues if we managed our food resources better. This is sooooooo frustrating. Thank you for your commentary.

[@antiquegirl6505]

@@sue2613 There are some grocery stores in Ohio, that freeze the meats, and pack up produce, that are nearing their expiration dates, and pass them on to soup kitchens and food banks. There are also many fast food restaurants and food trucks that are passing their remaining food each evening, on to homeless shelters, church groups, and groups that get the food to people that can use it, rather than waste the food. Unfortunately there are always more people in need, than can be supplied.

[@aerobique]

but..but...think of the prices

[@klalbritton]

@@sue2613 or homeless... there is an abundance of food and housing that is being made artificially scarce

[@cariwaldick4898]

In Raleigh NC, there's a program called Second Harvest (It might even be more widespread than this) that collects food from stores and restaurants, and takes it to food pantries and soup kitchens for donation. I volunteered in the soup kitchen, and salvaging edible fruits and vegetables from what they brought was sometimes difficult--like cutting off brown, wilted, parts--but it was free, and very good once cooked or prepared. This could be other things as well, like bread from bakeries, rotisserie chicken, and unsold cakes. There's also a charity that goes to farms and gleans the fields of remaining produce--like sweet potatoes. This too is donated. Food waste and hunger can be addressed, if people care enough.

[@klalbritton]

@@cariwaldick4898 this is such a good idea. Ima look into it in my area

[@Christopher_Bachm]

I think there's two truths, here. Registration of food vendors is like registration of guns. You want to find responsible parties, when trouble happens.

[@Christopher_Bachm]

@@NoName-OG1 I'm not beholden to the gun lobby. No one should be...

[@sasha2345]

Every New Yorker knows that this is about money. Those permits are very expensive, city makes alot of money from permits.

[@brucererek8764]

Nothing finer than a toasted roll, egg, bacon, and cheese off the truck and a cup of what can be reasonably called coffee.

[@lazylazymule]

Is this... is this a Terry Prachett reference?

[@mandisaw]

Working from home, I don't miss my office too much, but man do I miss my sandwich bodega - and my halal truck guy!

[@anthonyl3517]

Or a bacon wrapped hotdog topped with onions and peppers or a tamale. :)

[@mandisaw]

@@anthonyl3517 Brave man! I don't even get onions or ketchup on my dirty-water dog if I fancy the shirt I'm wearing 😅

[@maghenshaw8717]

Horse show breakfast!!

[@balaclavabob001]

The person that runs the hot dog cart near the central park zoo pays $289,500 a year for the pitch . That's an extreme case but as with many things the authorities do that make no sense , it's about money . oh , and that was in 2013 .

[@victor_venema]

That is not about food safety. And it means that that piece of public land is worth at least 290k a year. If you would not sell the permit, how would you determine which private person gets such a huge gift?

[@paddyohoyal]

George Carlin would have plenty to say about this

[@simpothyforthadevil1148]

Yes but Carlin was anti vax so.. I’m surprised you quoted him. Street vendors can bypass their businesses with a storefront and skip mandates. This is a power grab

[@alumpyhorse]

made me think about him too. He and Beau would’ve got along i’m guessing

[@simpothyforthadevil1148]

@@alumpyhorse zero chance. Carlin was anti vax.

[@paddyohoyal]

@@simpothyforthadevil1148 I don't think he was in all reality anti vax, we was anti authoritarian and made alot of "jokes" or observations about being made or told what to do

[@simpothyforthadevil1148]

@@paddyohoyal kzbin.info/www/bejne/jmOcnXlqaNKIotE

[@JoeAuerbach]

Man, I got to this one fast! Afternoon, all!

[@thisiscaseysaccount3242]

Afternoon to you as well sir! Hope all is well!

[@carissahowell]

Howdy there internet person!

[@jannie6605]

AISURU.TOKYO/AGNEZ/?[Making-love]💞 (◍•ᴗ•◍)✧*。18 years and over🍎🍑 KZbin: This is fine Someone: Says "heck" KZbin: Be gone #однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #Интересно #забавно #девушка #смешная #垃圾

[@jannie6605]

AISURU.TOKYO/AGNEZ/?[Making-love]💞 (◍•ᴗ•◍)✧*。18 years and over🍎🍑 KZbin: This is fine Someone: Says "heck" KZbin: Be gone #однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #Интересно #забавно #девушка #смешная #垃圾

[@christinagurchinoff9017]

You were running like Forest Gump!!! Run Forest Run! 🏃 Don't mind me. I'm still recuperating from that disturbing rally donald held in our peach state on Saturday night. Psycho bastard.

[@The0ldg0at]

That reminds me of an event like that that happened recently in a big city in China. An old street vendor lady was rough up by a sanitation worker because she didn't had a permit. Many people on the street came to her help because, over there, big cities are a new thing and a majority of the people have a rural upbringing. That made an uproar on their social media. The sanitation worker got kicked out of his job and his two colleagues got a 2 weeks job suspension because they didn't stop him. There's always polite and respectful ways to enforce city rules, that's what civilized means.

[@belladonnatook8851]

Ah, What a concept!

[@guessundheit6494]

2:20 - What makes sellers ensure food safety is accountability. That guy who sells you fresh seafood? You know him. If he sells anything with a side order of red tide, he won't survive the week if people get their hands on him. Food corporations, on the other hand, are protected from criminal responsibility or even financial because of corrupt laws. So, yeah, I'd trust a neighbor selling food or a "pick your own" farm, but not some guy driving through town, never to be seen again.

[@JosephCoates]

I remember my first time in South Carolina I saw people buying seafood out of the back of a truck and was shocked. That now goes down as the least shocking think I've seen from South Carolina. My, how times have changed.

[@jacksmith-vs4ct]

Yeah definitely the least shocking thing I've seen in this state lol. Generally don't buy seafood out of a truck though after I went with some guys to catch it once lol

[@jhenrypaul]

Lol if you worked in food processing positions you wouldn't buy any food you would grow it all yourself!

[@AtomicLegion]

It's all about the money, there's restaurants everywhere at are absolutely disgusting. Kitchen Nightmares build a whole series on it.

[@shawnhartmann4581]

Hear, hear. There are cities where food trucks/lunch wagons aren't allowed, licensed or not, within a certain radius of a restaurant. If you're worried the people on the truck are going to steal your business, One of/or two possibilities: 1)Your restaurant is really bad and should probably be shut down. 2)The truck has AMAZING tacos (maybe go into a partnership and get access to the recipe).

[@expatpiskie]

My dad worked as a deliveryman & got to see the back of restaurants. There was a very, very short list of restaurants that he would actually go to as a customer.

[@Gala-yp8nx]

Just lead with this: “City Officials harass Local Entrepreneur.”

[@jannie6605]

AISURU.TOKYO/AGNEZ/?[Making-love]💞 (◍•ᴗ•◍)✧*。18 years and over🍎🍑 KZbin: This is fine Someone: Says "heck" KZbin: Be gone #однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #Интересно #забавно #девушка #смешная #垃圾

[@jannie6605]

AISURU.TOKYO/AGNEZ/?[Making-love]💞 (◍•ᴗ•◍)✧*。18 years and over🍎🍑 KZbin: This is fine Someone: Says "heck" KZbin: Be gone #однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #Интересно #забавно #девушка #смешная #垃圾

[@vxicepickxv]

I don't think Beau is going to argue like an American Libertarian.

[@MMuraseofSandvich]

The local sheriff's department really undermined my trust in the idea that the county is interested in protecting public health. The public health office is definitely interested, and they offer free and cheap vaccines and tons of other proven services. It's when restaurants and bars decide to chug the Donald Kool aid and defy state and county health orders, which used to be enforced by the sheriff. The whole problem was, the sheriff and his deputies also drank the same Kool aid.

[@fredericrike5974]

Incorrect only in degree; local sheriffs and PD's were actively mixing and sharing the Orange Kool Aid by the tanker truck load. And have been for 150 years or more here in the South. Wiki up some "slave catchers"- it will open and put much water in your eyes! FR

[@rainbeauxunicorn5237]

You hit the nail on the head, Beau. Laws and policies are less about “right and wrong” and more about marginalization and oppression.

[@phantomqueen9281]

Here's reality if you ain't got no food you don't care who's selling it

[@ftmb1022]

This was very irresponsible of our officials herr in NY, that was perfectly good food that they could have given to a homeless shelter, there are some many hungry people and homeless people here in NY. Our leaders suck!!!!

[@caroletrapp3226]

Can’t make money on giving to homeless

[@Ash__Adler]

Glad to hear that this case ended with the people intervening to run off the workers and find a place for the food they left behind 🙂

[@bblvrable]

It's not about the food, it's about sending a message. If they could have gotten away with breaking the vendor's kneecaps, they would have done that too. When you watch a gangster movie, you don't see the gangsters coming into the store that failed to pay its protection money, and taking all the stuff out carefully and then giving it to homeless people. They go in there with their baseball bats and they destroy everything.

[@jimrobcoyle]

@Mrs Fefe You are correct. Watch a video of WTC7 free falling the evening of September 11, 2001. Your Officials are criminals.

[@julietfischer5056]

@@jimrobcoyle - Give it up. That was terrorism by religious fanatics.

[@dalysea26]

reminds me of first time I heard that a New York taxi medallion cost over a million dollars

[@andreabarnes-simmons791]

Love that shirt!!!

[@RT-tn3pu]

In DESERT food areas, these vendors are a need.

[@bobbyb.4468]

We have several banquets every year and most of the time the leftovers are gathered up and taken to the local Fire Station.

[@petemcnaughton2482]

I first heard about this over Twitter when some mutual aid groups were showing footage of them getting their fresh food tossed away by City Sanitation. It is very obvious that urban municipalities are paranoid about anything which disrupts in the slightest the status quo of city operations. Especially the food chain, which is controlled by local business barons and chain store executives. At some point, mutual aid groups for food need some kind of muscle to keep city bureaucrats or security off their backs, or better opsec to avoid them entirely.

[@ArlySol]

Even with permits I still occasionally find moldy/rotted produce in major stores. No one raises a fuss, they just make a face and pick another item... and consider getting produce somewhere else...

[@AA-pf9dh]

It’s always about Money 💰

[@vibesmom]

There are articles all over the country regarding shutting down kids lemonade stands for the lack of a permit. About 4-5 I found just on a general search. It’s a thing, but competition does seem to make sense.

[@cariwaldick4898]

I thought part of capitalism was competition...silly me.

[@belladonnatook8851]

@@cariwaldick4898 Only for some: Competition for thee? Capitalism for me! (And, of course, the very worst kind: Monopoly.)

[@vibesmom]

@@cariwaldick4898 Exactly, it should be. Competition is essential.

[@alexanderluna1158]

I’ve lived in NYC all my life and I can most certainly agree with you.

[@xionkuriyama5697]

We have so much food that we can have multiple entire warehouses of it in every major city, most of which is trashed daily, and people still go hungry. I just find that interesting.

[@timothymnemonic79]

We are very grateful for your words of wisdom and actions. 🌍🌎🌏

[@sabotagesavant5277]

Had my comment already worded in my mind then at 3:17 thru 3:35 you covered it. Damn , now I have to think of something else !

[@Andrea.1tree]

Just being here is enough. 😄👋🏼

[@briansmutti]

howdy

[@paleggett1897]

Support your local farmer if you can - food stands and farmers’ markets are awesome❣️

[@gilmoremccoy6930]

Beau, I'm shocked and appalled by NYC Cops behaving like this😱!

[@machintelligence]

It's all about revenue enhancement, of course, (license fees.) Possibly also (if food is subject to sales tax), tax enforcement.

[@jameshollingshead1845]

In most states that I'm aware of, selling produce from a vehicle only requires a peddler's license, which is usually pretty inexpensive. We used to do that when I was a kid

[@letsRegulateSociopaths]

maybe in rural areas. In cities no way.

[@jackiearcher7738]

In rural areas but in the city it is expensive, i grow some of my own food and in buckets, if others could learn how to grown their own it would be very beneficial to a community, they could trade with one another and feed their families and communities

[@jameshollingshead1845]

@@jackiearcher7738 The video and comment were literally about selling produce. Yes, being able to grow your own is fantastic, but that's not the topic of conversation.

[@sonjaleesloth]

"...especially if they don't recover. They not gonna buy from you." 👍🏼

[@terrycuyler5659]

Nothing made me realize I lived in a food desert more than the pandemic. Until I learned about the instacart app. Through a majority of it I was forced to choose between shopping for food at a Dollar General which had mostly high fat, high sodium content foods or, exposing myself by catching a bus to a grocery store. Thankfully when restrictions in our city loosened a construction project for a grocery store in the downtown area I live near were able to restart and be completed.

[@hanglee5586]

Sounds like something out of a college course called Corruption 301. 😉

[@celiawaddell4526]

Here in Seattle, Even the street vendors who vend jewelry off a blanket on the sidewalk prominently display their business license

[@lynneperg6853]

In the fifties I lived on a farm. We had a large "truck" garden. While we sold some of our specialty items to restaurants or stores, the rest was sold at our farm stand at the driveways end. We canned or froze what we needed and the rest was marketed. Working in that bleeping one acre garden was a not so fun memory of my childhood. Left over produce was given away at church.

[@chrisdraughn5941]

It’s not theater in the case of street vendor carts, it’s an intentional barrier to entry and it isn’t event a secret or disguised as a safety initiative.

[@danielr.y5261]

Over here in EU we have a funny concept of the FDA; very solid for medical drugs, horribly low bar for food safety. Meaning, if a medical drug is FDA approved we regard it as safe with satisfactory standars. However, when it comes to food products these often crush into EU's regulatory wall of food safety. It's been years since I studied this in uni, but case in point; chlorinated chicken (banned in EU since the 1990's). I'm not sure that the FDA approved food in USA is much safer than what you can get from smaller vendors.

[@8arcasticallyYours]

American eggs are also banned in the EU because the US insists on washing them which removes the natural protection from bacteria off the shells. Those eggs then have to be kept in fridges to try to keep them safe for consumption. EU eggs are left au naturel and can be stored without refrigeration in the shops and in the home.

[@kityac9810]

It really isn't, Daniel. And that's primarily thanks to the food lobby, which ensured that the FDA didn't have the "enforcement teeth" to do much of anything in that regard. We have salmonella outbreaks fairly often, while spraying everything with everything, at the same time. I was shocked when I found out about the chlorinated chicken (and ammonia beef) years ago, but what got me was how many people I told about it here who only cared to the extent that they weren't inconvenienced by it. The level of casual disregard exhibited here over our lax food policy is just mind boggling to me.

[@ZToxLives]

Ironically I believe that KZbin does this very same thing with small channels vis-a-vis the monetization threshold requirements. You can not meet the monetization requirements but KZbin will still place paid advertisements over your video. I think this hurts lesser established channels because people will be less inclined to sit through an advertisement for an unknown channel than they would for one they already know. KZbin, just like the city, will win either way, because it'll either force channel growth to a level that is more profitable for them (just like the city forcing compliance with permit requirements makes them more money) OR it'll drown out the small channel completely making room for the more profitable, established channels (again, like that small vendor who can't sustain with the permit requirements and therefore they go under, paving the way for those established, successful vendors). I suppose at the end of the day the marketplace of ideas and the marketplace of food do have some commonalities 🤪.

[@julietfischer5056]

AdBlock does wonders for getting rid of ads.

[@alexandravork9237]

Look at what they charge those food vendors, it's crazy all by itself.

[@47riley47]

Thank you for covering this, much love Beau 🕉️♥️

[@cheftommiller]

Actually, it's definitely more about $$$ for city coffers than anything.

[@simpothyforthadevil1148]

Anything food related whether fruit or hot dogs.. will be seen as a way of avoiding mandates.

[@bigbrother787]

Fire the ruling class

[@louielopez5498]

Love the video I agree 100%

[@ericmoore2236]

Same thing happens where I am from in Kentucky too .

[@HerreNeas]

In Tunisia a guy was selling from produce from a cart, no permit, a cop tipped it over, the guy was angry and went to the government building and set himself alight, a crowd gathered and there was unrest, eventually it spread, they called it the Arab spring, some look at it in other ways, gotta treat folk right, is that what you are getting at there beau, just saying, y’all go steady, regards.

[@crumbling1192]

This would be the same argument that conservatives make about all regulation (it's theater, the Free Market will work it out, etc.). Pretty thin ice.

[@godlessheathen100]

This right here is the Beau content that keeps me coming back. From the ground up...

[@alberttrump457]

When you're government exists to punish those who are most vulnerable, you know that your government has failed. Your government exists to protect those most vulnerable to those with power who use it to take advantage of those most vulnerable.

[@harryshector]

More than anything else, it is a revenue stream for the permitting authority. It is ALWAYS about money.

[@tammyiden240]

Nailed it!! I grew up in Boston and we had huge farmers markets!! Near 93 !! But they had to buy a license from the State!! Even street meat !! The rich always finding ways to stick it to the cmon folk!!

[@belladonnatook8851]

!! Tammy !!

[@pitchforksdragon1252]

The correct term is "security theatre"

[@tfox285]

I trust a roadside farm stand more than what I get from a grocery store.

[@runaway2548]

I can sort of see the need for permitting in a big city with how easy it would be to just disappear after offloading tainted food, but people should demand a less wasteful solution than destroying and trashing everything each time an unlicensed vendor gets caught. The city could confiscate it, inspect it, and then donate it to local food banks. Sure, that would take more effort than trashing it, but at least someone is benefitting from the situation.

[@mattnyman9933]

There is a truism that no one wants to buy the last head of lettuce off of the grocery shelf. The abundance on the shelf is marketing. So bringing more than will stay fresh that day to try to drive the sales may play a part in this.

[@rvallenduuk]

Yep, every time, everywhere, economics trumps everything. We destroy our actual planet for chasing this made-up concept of 'money'.

[@peterplopper269]

Haven't watched the vid yet, but I love nyc street food, its amazing stuff

[@jimh8725]

I work at a large grocery chain and it always amazed me that the company that sells us all of our cleaning and sanitation products is the same company that does our food safety inspections. Conflict of interest?

[@eme.261]

That's one of the worse things in NYC. We have far too many hungry and malnourished people in our city for us to pull this type of crap. This may piss some people off, but the truth is that the trashing of these types of food stands begin to occur more often when yts begin to move into a neighborhood. They're the ones who complain and report the stands to 311 (the city's complaint and information line).

[@Andrea.1tree]

Forgive my ignorance, what is yts? Edit: urban dictionary says it stands for “whiteys”. I mean, if that’s your personal experience, ok. In my experience, it is anyone new, or local government flexing that shuts the farmers truck down. But I didn’t grow up in NYC. Where I live now farm trucks are encouraged.

[@dianna3157]

Yt's? As in whiteys? Just making sure I understand your comment 🙂

[@earlofsmeg]

Street vendors are New York's hallmark. I love those vendors. Hot dogs. Makes me wanna go to NY right now.

[@LITTLEMUSTANGFILLY]

This is probably one of my favorite videos you've done recently

[@conniem.5677]

We are in this together.. Discovery,not isolation Thank you, Beau

[@misunshine2565]

Howdy

[@d123mahesh2]

Fifth! At the Fifth Column!!! 🥳💐👍🏾

[@judithgash1845]

When I was a little girl , in the 1950's. We had a man with a big open wagon , pulled by a horse. This is how we got our vegetables and fruits back then . None of us kids ever got sick. That's also the days when milk and eggs were delivered by the milk man. We bought our meat and candy and canned good at the neighbor hood store. The people who owned it lived upstairs in their apartment. Oh for the good old days.

[@MultiZombiekiller201]

I love when you talk about my state, we’re the ultimate example of government overreach

[@papakokopelli]

Food safety has gone bureautic. Instead of inspecting the products, FDA and others have used the HACCP system, which is based on endless paperwork rather than the products themselves

[@0rangedrink]

I wonder how much the city makes make from permitting fees..

[@GeeksandGrub]

I must be weird. Doing things for show, like taking your shoes off at the airport doesn't make me feel more safe, just more annoyed.

[@chrishammock9009]

This is the same argument that needs to be used when talking about health care, access to water, and many other basic necessities.

[@grmpEqweer]

Hmm. I've read about one group refitting an old metro bus as a mobile greengrocer, to serve as a rolling produce stand. Presumably something like that would have a schedule so as to be parked for business at rotating locations, thus able to give maybe 3 different food deserts access to fresh food.

[@ashtreylil1]

I wish pickup truck food stands were more common everywhere. Grow your own and share with the community. I don't understand why we can't use our lawns as farms.

[@toddkes5890]

Lawns were originally a form of conspicuous wealth, to show that the owner had enough money that they could afford to have good land not being used to grow food

[@grmpEqweer]

@@toddkes5890 Now they're often a requirement. 😡

[@ashtreylil1]

@@toddkes5890 now it seems the opposite inside city limits most of the people with gardens have money, because they have the free time to not work. I'd love to see food growing in vacant lots, roadside, and people's yards rather than grass or the same copy paste trees.

[@wadestanton]

@@ashtreylil1 Growing produce or gathering from roadside is problematic in that fuel additives have settled onto the soil for decades on the roadside. If you must choose a road that was always lightly used or feed the harvest to old people.

[@ashtreylil1]

@@wadestanton ah makes sense once you give it thought. Wouldn't want to be poisoning people with diesel vegetables.

[@d123mahesh2]

👋🏾Add: Wasting food is nauseating to me. My heart bleeds. Yeah I understand about the food safety issues. Still…

[@stuckinflorida9685]

D123 Mahesh Fourth!!! 💐👍🏼 and good morning 🙏🏼

[@shawnr771]

Good afternoon.

[@d123mahesh2]

@@stuckinflorida9685 Yay!!! 🌞🙂👋🏾 You are here!!! How are you, Sir??? And thank you!!! 🙏🏾

[@jannie6605]

AISURU.TOKYO/AGNEZ/?[Making-love]💞 (◍•ᴗ•◍)✧*。18 years and over🍎🍑 KZbin: This is fine Someone: Says "heck" KZbin: Be gone #однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #Интересно #забавно #девушка #смешная #垃圾

[@shawnr771]

Reminds me of the Texas Deep Freeze and the store freezer and refrigerators going out. They tossed everything in the dunpster. Rather than take it in the back and open a door to keep it cold.

[@stonedsasquatch]

You nailed it 1000% it's all a matter of money and kickbacks up here

[@Doctor-Shoebill]

Using the power of violence of the state to strong-arm money out of people. Plain and simple.

[@peter_meyer]

C'mon, "food safety"? In the US? Greetings from Europe.

[@lizaronni]

Perhaps there’s an opportunity here for some urban gardening organization for composting or something(?)

[@hfkrexx]

one of the best T-shirts, in a long row of great ones. always good work and great Tees. love it.

[@area609joe2]

The permit process in NYC is protect vendors who have permits.