Let's Talk...Fulgrim with Graham McNeill

I am rejoined by the amazing Graham McNeill to discuss Fulgrim the notorious fifth book of the Horus Heresy!
Find Graham's official website full of grimdark goodness here: graham-mcneill.com/
PLEASE LIKE & SUBSCRIBE and if you'd like to support or join the Mira Manga Book Club you can hit me up on Patreon! / miramanga
Check out my previous interview with Graham all about Galaxy in Flames here: • Lets Talk...False Gods...
Thanks to the UBER talented ‪@LuisHumanoide‬ for the epic music that features in this theme song. I am the Daniel LaRusso to his Miyagi and will forever paint his fence.
00:00:00 Intro and welcome!
00:00:33 Awesome Fulgrim theme song - music by ‪@LuisHumanoide‬
00:01:17 Everybody loves Fulgrim
00:02:59 Let's explore the Xenos in this book
00:05:52 The corruption of the Rememberancers
00:09:25 The Diasporex
00:12:40 Charlie Brown
00:13:08 Space Elves!
00:16:50 The Origin of Slaanesh
00:22:00 The High Lords of Terra apportion The Primarchs
00:25:00 Why did Fulgrim fall?
00:34:00 I blame Fabius
00:40:00 Addiction
00:43:30 An exciting 90's influence!
00:45:55 The Dropsite Massacre Istvaan 5
00:51:55 Lucius and the Bastard Scale
00:54:50 The First Wives Club by Olivia Goldsmith
00:56:25 Serena and her dark path
00:57:20 Serena and Ostian - a Warhammer Romeo and Juliet
00:59:40 The Maraviglia
01:04:10 To Kill A Primarch
01:13:40 The Odyssey of the Heresy continues...

[@Timebandit1]

The opening jingles don't get anywhere near enough love in the comments!

[@garypilkington2]

Thank you Mira for hosting Graham McNeill. As a retired librarian, I appreciate these author talks and what they do to help with adult literacy. Thank you for your time!

[@miramanga]

Do you really think they help? That makes me so happy 😀 I love librarians. My dad took me every Saturday when I was little and I still remember my first librarian. I’d love to be a librarian but don’t have a degree.

[@garypilkington2]

@@miramanga Of course they help! Anything that encourages people to read is a wonderful thing. Between what you do here and what you do with @arbitorian and the book club, you are both encouraging literacy. READ ON!😀

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

Ah, I was about to ask which chapter you served with but then remembered that space marines don’t retire 😛

[@garypilkington2]

@@HistoritorJimaldus Oh, Space Marine Librarians do retire... but in the same sort of way a replicant is retired! 😀

[@U2QuoZepplin]

Was I the only one who thought Librarian in big Terminator Armour with a mahoooosive Force Axe!! 😮😲😱

[@kirksabio2382]

Maaan, this got me properly excited. While the quadrilogy of the Horus Heresy's intro was amazing, reading Fulgrim feels like you've crossed a certain threshold as a reader, a border crossed by the imagination. Just as much as those poor souls are damned to hell, so too, are you damned, to read on. Edit: Also, i'm super grateful that Graham and the rest of the authors have expressed such willingness to talk about their work. I cant wait to see you guys again when you cover Mechanicum, a Thousand sons etc. Graham does such a good job with world building.

[@filteredjc4653]

Fulgrim is full grim, its great

[@Elbuarto]

Hey guys I found this funny looking sword that talks to me, what should I do?

[@helios7170]

Thank you Graham NcNeill for writing Fulgrim. I’m about 10 books in to the HH and this one stands out. The scene when Eldrad finally understands that even the Primarchs are naive to the horrors of Chaos was absolutely chilling. The final crescendo of the novel stands out as one of the best moments in any book I’ve ever read, the build up to it was phenomenal. Thank you so so so much Mira for hosting these interviews X

[@be_quiet_and_drive]

I loved that scene. How different it would have been if he had picked another legion to meet with.

[@nickharling3902]

Instant *like* for the opening song

[@HammerdownProtocol]

I'm a professional visual artist, so the deaths of one in a million talents like Bequa Kynska, Ostian Delafour and Serena D'Angellus were an especially almighty emotional kick in the nads. Great book though, for all the tragedy.

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

Bequa? We hardly knew her!

[@HammerdownProtocol]

@@HistoritorJimaldus But a dazzling talent was ended too soon, nonetheless.

[@omnissiah5382]

I haven’t read these books in over 10 years. Fulgrim’s fall was inevitable.

[@leary_93]

"Toking" that Longbottom Leaf!

[@euansmith3699]

Words an author doesn't want to hear from their fans, "Thankfully all my books are second hand." 😄👍 Another great chat; Mira really spoils us. The Maraviglia: Rocky Horror, "Now the only thing I've come to trust, is an orgasmic rush of lust, rose tints my world and keeps me, safe from my trouble and pain."

[@voland6846]

I know authors who have uploaded their own work to libgen and zlibrary, to ensure more people have access to it, so I wouldn't be too confident about how an author feels about second hand books

[@euansmith3699]

@@voland6846 Good point. Cory Doctorow goes one step further and releases his work free online before it gets sold in a physical format.

[@marjoe32]

45:14 ARTAX!!!!!

[@IamLertimo]

Great discussion with Graham, thanks for that Mira. Regarding Fabius Bile, at some point you should check out Josh Reynold's masterful trilogy featuring the Emperor's Children apothecary. It transforms him from the slightly two-dimensional, mad scientist of the Heresy books into a tragic character of truly Shakespearean proportions. In my opinion, it's some of the very best writing that has ever come out of Black Library.

[@miramanga]

Hmmmm

[@IamLertimo]

@@miramanga I should probably mention that its full of people doing appalling things to each other ;) But it IS terribly good. And it has lots of Fulgrim-related stuff, so you'll probably like it (ask Ian, he'll agree with me, I'm 99.9% certain)

[@miramanga]

Oh dear@@IamLertimo

[@IamLertimo]

​@@miramanga Fear not! I know you've been warned to stay away from the Night Lords trilogy (that's sound advice). The Fabius Bile books aren't anything like in the same league of appallingness, but then it's all relative I suppose.

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

@@IamLertimoI just finished night lords, Mira could handle them - so good too

[@oatlord]

I always feel a bond with someone who wears a Ghost shirt on TV. I do the Leo Dicaprio point at the TV thing.

[@glandhound]

Wouldn't a ghost shirt be invisible?

[@workaccount9868]

The intro was so cool. Mira you are great

[@Hellfirematrix]

Really enjoyed Fulgrim! One of the best in the HH line!

[@Ftamin13]

What a treat! Thank you Mira for hosting the interview and Graham for the interview. It is quite a pleasure listening to author talk about their craft and inspirations and I look forward to your next adventure in the in the 30k/40k Warhammer verse.

[@DavidBain-mh1oz]

Fulgrim...... I have to say it was one of the best books I read, Almost a tad sad for fulgrim after he got......... demonised. However it was a bit wild at time! Graham, love that scottish accent.

[@colinmiddleton8127]

Thanks for this interview, both to Mira and Graham. @MiraManga, I think that it wasn't the sex and gore that had us worrying about you, but the emotional trauma as you watch these noble and well realised characters sink further and further into their own darkness. Even I shed a tear reading this novel. As an aside, I've got some charts drawn up that might help you keep track of who's who in the Heresy. If you're interested in them, let me know.

[@miramanga]

Thanks Colin, I hear you on the darkness... I am slightly building up a resistance I fear! It's good to cry - so thank you for sharing that you did one too! I am trying to avoid charts as they contain spoilers... what do you think?

[@Eyeofthemaelstrom]

Great interview. Awesome to see Graham talking about his work. Cheers Mira

[@miramanga]

No problem my pleasure! Check out the video where we talk about Flight of the Eisenstein too!

[@Eyeofthemaelstrom]

@@miramanga will do .

[@sterlingnorthum3911]

Good evening Mira. Firstly, thank you again for the interviews that you do. It's always delightful to see someone with so much positive energy interested in these books and hobby of ours. And secondly, it looks as though you're feeling better after your bout with the covid. I'm sure that I speak for everyone else when I say, we're all glad you're doing better. 😊 Take care of yourself, and keep sending the positive energy out into the world. Because, making the world better starts with one smile at a time.

[@miramanga]

Thank you for the kind words. I’m still not 100% but grateful for every good day

[@sterlingnorthum3911]

Well, you may not be a hundred percent but at least you're getting there that's the important part. And you're right everyday is a gift. It's just a shame that we don't always appreciate that. And it's made all too clear when our health fails us from time to time. Hope hope that you're a hundred percent soon. 😊

[@jimvesal6012]

Loving these interviews Mira, and really enjoying revisiting the series with you.

[@miramanga]

Glad to have you with us

[@OldManRogers]

The wee songs are still the best bit!!

[@mead813]

When asked about the heresy coming to an end, he's says we'll be doing this for many years. Are they gonna take us past the Emperor's death and the tell stories of the primarchs up to modern 40k?

[@glandhound]

Picking up the Laer sword was already against the rules, it's xenos made and it's heretical to use. A similar situation happens in Horus Rising where Eidolon scolds Lucius for using the spider-mech wings as a sword. That's Fulgrim's first mistake, the second is when he doesn't get rid of it when he starts hearing it's voice.

[@be_quiet_and_drive]

I have said this every time these come out, but ill say it again. These meetings with the authors of the Horus Heresy have been incredible. Watching you read these stories for the first time is pretty special too. I hope you keep these going

[@miramanga]

It's all I want to do!!

[@chadvonfulgrim]

YEES YESS YESS YES YESS YES..... ive been waiting for this

[@KarlKingz]

Really interesting interview. So cool Mira can get all these authors on for everyone. All chaos traitors have their reasons but the Blood Angels not corrupting despite similar struggles prove the Primarch formally know as Fulgrim and his band fell because they couldn't conquer their weaknesses and fear.

[@davidpaterson1203]

Thanks for another great interview Mira and thanks to Graham for speaking so passionately. Fulgrim blew me away when i read it on release and its still one of my favourites now. Its actually the remembrancers that stand out for me from this one. I remember feeling how scary it would be to be among that mass descent into depravity and hedonism. I think that hits since I'm an introvert by nature. Your interview reminded me how epic this novel is though and how many huge things happen in it. Graham really did an amazing job balancing the macro level events with the human level horror. Awesome

[@DavidBain-mh1oz]

My favourite disco pistol person!!❤😂🎉

[@obnoxiouspriest]

Aaaaahhh! I forgot about the intro songs! How dare I. Delightful.

[@lysander1]

Another amazing interview. I wonder if you'll ever interview ABD. I bet you could get some secrets out of him

[@miramanga]

When I get to The First Heretic!!

[@lysander1]

my fave BL book! @@miramanga

[@cappinjocj9316]

Great interview as always Mira. As a dirty heretic Emperor’s Children player I’ve been looking forward to this one.

[@miramanga]

Happy to help!!

[@cappinjocj9316]

@@miramanga There’s nowt better than heavy metal space marines literally melting faces with their riffs. 🤘

[@miramanga]

noise marines@@cappinjocj9316

[@randomacademypilot]

Thank you.

[@MrAwrsomeness]

nice just started reading this book

[@Aviatorproduction]

Always love these interviews. You’re such a natural interviewer. Love this content. Keep it going! #freefulgrim

[@jamesmckenna4460]

This is one of my fave hh books, so it's an instant decision to click on this!

[@miramanga]

Enjoy 😊

[@mus_cetiner]

Awesome. Loved this interview.

[@KarlKingz]

Awesome interview, there can be no light without the dark

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

1:00:00 manumission mixed with SpongeBob?? 😂 I can’t even imagine! 😮

[@briochepanda]

If you want more Rylanor then check out Stringstorm's rock opera song based on the Rylanor's Last Stand story.

[@martinsuarez8359]

Fantastic talk whit the genius!

[@xm0rtal]

I always felt that that Slaanesh Crab Claw thing was based off of Revelation 9:10 -"And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months." the scorpion tails imply scorpion claws possibly?

[@user-if3hi1ni6g]

im excited

[@lysander1]

the theme tunes!!!! BAAAAAAAAUUUUUUMMM!!!

[@6dragondaddy913]

Can't wait for when you get to ask Dan Abnett what a wet leopard sounds like...

[@zach5539]

I just read this! Such good timing for this interview :)

[@zach5539]

Mira this is such an earnest interview, I really enjoyed it, you can tell you put some real thought into these questions and you can see that Graham appreciates it! Thank you :)

[@miramanga]

@@zach5539 you’re so welcome 😃 Graham is wonderful

[@obnoxiouspriest]

Hooray! It's time for my treat after Thanksgiving dinner. Now that I'm stuffed with and excess of turkey and wine that would make Slaanesh proud ,let's dive right into Fulgrim.

[@senorsuave]

A like and comment for grateful reception

[@Airbag15]

Can't wait for the Nick Kyme interview LMAO

[@totalCoolerUsername]

That's evil dude 😂😂😂

[@amosb1452]

comment for the comment god!

[@obnoxiouspriest]

Personally, I cannot wait until Mira gets to The End and the Death. It's been blowing my mind.

[@deathwatch962]

For sure for sure

[@jackcharlie9322]

Bloated mess of a book imo

[@veo16]

This must have been an expensive session to film. Everybody knows Graham charges by the letter!

[@Jinballify]

30 odd minutes to go then, for Mira to absolutely rip into poor Graham for some permanent emotional scars and damaged psyche. 😅 Also I believe we have some new heights on Miras' a**hole list. 😁 (and the poor, poor ma'am has really not seen much yet. 💜)

[@miramanga]

👀🤪🤣

[@Yandarval]

Mira will need a new list for just the basic Drukari. Before she even gets onto the darker Drukari stuff. Several old fashioned Telephone books will be needed.

[@miramanga]

Oh no! @@Yandarval

[@Jinballify]

@@Yandarval Ah, yes. And she hasn't even met the Night Lords. Or Word Bearers, aside from Erebus. Getting her reaction on Calth will be golden. And the whole Mechanicus book! Such sights we have to show you... A show where Ian (or someone else from the community, we do not want to overwork the poor man!) would have to explain some of the deepest horrifying aspects of 40k one by one to Mira as a genuine unjaded newcomer would be some awesome content, not only for the reactions but to remind us unfeeling old blood just how bad a place the 40k universe really is. "Today, we shaml talk about the Homonculi..." Few episode ideas: Night Lords Everything Fabius Bile post-heresy Druchari ...just, Druchari Necrons, the Pariah and Skin Flayer virus The Inquisition on avarage thursday Carcharadons Angels Sanguine(?) "wait, they'r LOYALISTS?!" The reign of blood Tuska Demon-Killa and his ascension to Ork heaven, for levity Slaanesh and the fate of Aeldari

[@earnestwanderer2471]

Such a tragedy. The whole process of the history of the Heresy. See, this is what people who look at Warhammer lore from the outside miss. It’s not just “bolter porn”. You get to examine the flawed nature of humanity, how the best intentions can be twisted into the most monumental failure.

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

‘Awash with slaughter’ - #Warhasmr

[@miramanga]

Lol

[@jjakji2078]

My favorite HH novel. I just love how evil and fucked up it is.

[@bequakynskagroupie3751]

Slaanesh approves… 👿…. But of course I would say that.

[@MrLigonater]

A Methaphor

[@Mr_Quimper]

I thirst.

[@RedemptiveChief]

I think his fall was indicated when he decided to take Laer in month. As reader I though oh he’s fucked and the rest of the Novel was Graham showing me just how fucked

[@mattjames6847]

Speaking of Rylanor, has Mira heard the song?

[@miramanga]

Is it a spoiler song?

[@mattjames6847]

For the story 'The Ancient awaits' yes, it's the short story as a rock opera

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

@@miramanga it doesn’t spoil anything except one thing you already know - fulgrim’s current physical state :)

[@jackcharlie9322]

Wow impressive, you got black library’s best author to talk about one of the best books and managed to ask 90% useless questions whilst getting so many words and pronunciations wrong , can’t believe people are paying you to do this

[@miramanga]

Thanks for your feedback Jack. I suffer from anxiety and often doubt myself when I’m speaking, so sometimes muddle up the names and check in with the author so they can correct me. I’m sorry you didn’t like the questions What would you have asked?

[@jackcharlie9322]

@@miramanga sorry I came across so harsh In my previous comment , it’s entirely subjective what I think is a good question and what you consider to be relevant to ask, I was just salty at you skipping over some of my favourite characters and battle scenes , in retrospect I shouldn’t have berated you for anything , I let my passions get the better of me

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

‘Useless’ is subjective of course, everyone else seems to be enjoying the interview very much ❤

[@miramanga]

Analytics says: 99.7% likes (vs dislikes) 308 Likes 1 Dislike ..so think I am doing OK on the whole but always worry so much

[@miramanga]

Thank's @@jackcharlie9322 I appreciate that! I am reading Descent of Angels next so let me know if there's anything you don't want me to miss out in that one.

[@ManMan-bq4fl]

Are you aware that his first new Old world novel GW released (Lords of the Lance) is full of WOKE ideology? It is all about multiple boss babes knights which school useless and incompetent men ("need no man" basically) and contains critique of feudalism (beyond cringe for supposed late medieval grimdark setting), and breaks suspension of disbelieve within WH fantasy setting with modern gender politics. Rainbow ponies and safe spaces coming soon to WH universe? There is zero chance I will consume his content.

[@miramanga]

I think they may have written this book with readers like me in mind. I’m new to the hobby and enjoy the rainbow pony, safe spaces and wokeness stuff. I hope you can discover other books within this IP or others that serve your needs.

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

Not critiques of feudalism!! When will the woke madness end??! 😂