LET'S TALK NM HISTORY - EP 9 - La Leyenda Negra! The Black Legend of Spain!

Join State Historian of New Mexico Rob Martinez for LET'S TALK NM HISTORY! State Historian Rob Martinez talks about how the Leyenda Negra has shaped US Hispanic relations through the centuries!

[@josemaldonarico]

Thank you for your contribution. There are giant differences, though. The Spanish Empire already discussed the rights and freedom of natives (Elizabeth's will, Leyes de Burgos), promoted interracial marriage since the 16th century (also among noblemen and women!) and developed critical infrastructure (already 9 universities in the Americas when Harvard was established, hundreds of hospitals, both accessible to natives, mestizos and ethnic Spaniards, deep inside the country and not only harbour-serving infrastructure for commodities; roads, textile industry, reliable commercial flow with China through the Philippines, etc.) The encomienda structure was very similar to other social structures all over Europe at the time and economic and other social disparities were given everywhere as well (not racial in this case!). These are some examples. The best one, however, is the mestizaje and nearly immediate integration of native people into the legal system. Speaking about colonies in the Spanish Empire is incorrect, by the way (Virreinatos, Provincias, Capitanías instead). The legal structure was an extension and not a subordination based relationship. Natives (indios) and mestizos were subjects of the Crown just as any other Spaniard, with necessary exceptions (e.g. reference of servants as slaves in Nueva España, by Isabel Moctezuma, who freed all of them through her last will on 1550, due to her catholic education). Disparities were of economic and social ("class") nature. This did not happen in any other Empire. Slaves from Africa are an important exception, of course, but within the Empire, since slavery was and had been a realitiy all over the world for millenia. Finally, cruel acts (e.g. conquest of current Sonora) were normal at that time and were not only carried out by Spaniards. Many cruel acts were perpetrared by Indios themselves due to cultural conceptions of war and historic grievance (tlaxcala people enslaved, sacrificed and eaten by the thousands, yearly, by Mexicas). As it had been said many times before, the Conquista was made by the Indios, if you look at the numbers. Not recognizing this fact leads to ignoring the rightful role they played in our common history.

[@perico400]

Something that is true that courts built the first hospital in Mexico City just 5 years after the conquest of Mexico tenostical of the more than 300 that were made or the 25 universities, how many did the English in the 13 colonies?

[@Jbass74]

Great video.. Simple but very true way of putting things.. Im from Texas and I love all Spanish / Native history..

[@robmartinez7517]

Thank you!

[@zorrozorro9681]

if you compare Hispanofobia and hate propaganda against Spain, with Portugal, Portugal is bellow de Pyrenees too, but they do not suffer the same attack because they aligned with England, so it is a targeted attack only on Spain to try to take over the biggest global empire and culturally appropriate their achievements !! that is why when north Europeans invaded Africa the same moral codes are not applied, and the atrocities not publicised, told and never exaggerated like is been done with the Spanish colonisation in America !! is all about RE-WRITING history and then brain washing the uneducated with that manipulated history !!

[@user-tm5em4vu7u]

100%! Just look at how the Anglos treated the Indians in India! They caused huge famines and geno.cide! But we never hear about that in the Anglo media.

[@marksanders2168]

Anglos did it to the Irish too. Irish are hated just for being catholic.​@@user-tm5em4vu7u

[@DavidMartinez-xh4ye]

This video is why your one of my favorite KZbinrs Robert, your facts and content are super interesting to me! But please try and release more than one video a month😆

[@SergioRPerez]

I'm glad you touched this topic. There is a lot of info regarding this topic and it's time to change that feeling about who we are and who we were.

[@MrSquidd88]

These are neat presentations. Love the way you dumb stuff down to an easily understandable level. I learned about the Spanish Hacienda Systems from Mayan taxi driver in Cozumel. He drove me around and showed me a couple monuments. One of a wedding between the Mayan King's daughter and a young Spanish military officer, so they'd get the ball rolling on the meztizo production line...I was able to communicate with he Mayan taxi driver easily using my border Spanglish and his school-taught Spanish... Looking forward to your comments some day on the statue vandalism that we've seen in California to the Jesuit's statues.

[@robmartinez7517]

Thank you for your comment.

[@EdgardoPlasencia]

The Spanish changed a Neolithic civilization to a society of baroque culture .. after 60 years of the arrival of the Europeans in America , the first university in Lima, Perú was founded : San marcos.

[@reginaj.1139]

Does this justify all that came with it? Are you saying violence is a worthy price to pay? Even if you think so, I believe the only people qualified to answer this question are the ones subjected to violence in the name of “progress.”

[@edgardoplasencia511]

@@reginaj.1139 question of understanding things in the right proportion and a minimun amount of intelligence and advanced education. more intellectual reflection , less " feelings "

[@adamjg5061]

​@@reginaj.1139 The natives were hostile.. euros were defending themselves.

[@ces5263]

@@reginaj.1139 I can guarantee to you that in many parts of America (The whole continent) many of the defenders of the spanish heritage are native americans.

[@xmaverickhunterkx]

​@@reginaj.1139So you're saying you have no idea what really happened in the Spanish America

[@rebeccacampos5217]

Thank you for the balance you provide in explaining this history.

[@robmartinez7517]

You are welcome, it is not easy, but I try! :)

[@m.x.]

The fact is that the Spanish Monarchy wasn't predatory like the French, Dutch and British. And no, the Spanish Monarchy didn't have colonies, but rather independent viceroyalties. Also, the Laws of the Indies stated that it was strictly forbidden to enslave natives, and those who did so were prosecuted (e.g., Columbus himself, who was put in prison, stripped of all his titles and profits obtained in America, and banned from setting foot in America for the rest of his life-The reason? For enslaving and mistreating natives). The encomienda system were normal at that time for all subjects of the crown, including Spanish, and it was better than most systems of its time. Also, the system was updated to make it more lax. The Spanish Monarchy was the only one to recognise and treat the natives as equal subjects of the queen and king just like the rest of Spanish people at that time; to build public schools, universities and hospital for everybody, etc. They built 700 cities only within the first century and round 7 000 in total. They built all kind of infrastructures such roads, water and sewerage systems, ports, etc. They also encouraged and legalised mixed-race marriages from the very beginning, instead of exterminating natives to near extinction as the Anglo-Saxon empires did in North America, Africa, India, Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines. Were there atrocities committed during the war by some Spaniards? Of course, in what war there are no episodes like that? However, it was not the general trend. The Spanish Empire had 3 centuries of unprecedented peace and prosperity, only comparable to the famous _Pax Romana_ . The native languages did not resist despite the Spanish but precisely thanks to them. The Spanish are the very ones who published the native grammars so that they could be preserved-some even before French and English published theirs. The viceroyalties of New Spain and Peru were richer and more prosperous than the Kingdom of Spain. Since when are the supposed colonies richer and more prosperous than the metropolis that is supposed to colonise them? This's not a Pink or White legend, these're historical facts. And there're way more that prove the Spanish Monarchy was the real deal. Of course, you won't find this in English books for obvious reasons. Comparisons are odious.

[@user-tm5em4vu7u]

100%! Viva la Hispanidad!! Arriba el Imperio Español!!

[@perico400]

One thing that is never done, and especially from the Anglo-Saxon side, is to study the political aspect of the Protestant Reformation, which is to take a heresy like many at the time and give it political support because it was the excuse to break the political project of the House of austria of the time that was based on religion at the time

[@antonioeste9944]

Ete

[@pitraque]

Catholics mixed with native americans 500 years ago, protestants 50 years ago.

[@juanjoseleonvarea2495]

I understand the problem of the white legend, but we, for example, consider the invasion of the Roman Empire as something positive for us, despite the fact that it meant the disappearance of the original cultures of the Iberian Peninsula. In the same way, the Arab domination is considered as something that contributed to our development, despite the fact that, as during the beginning of the Roman rule over Hispania, they committed atrocities, the natives were enslaved and their culture was completely erased. . Why, when we are the ones doing it, is a bad thing to talk about the positives? Of course, the ideal is to show all the aspects, both the negative and the positive, but it seems that when we talk about the positive it is something bad.

[@robmartinez7517]

I believe we should discuss the positives. I have many times. But a white legend does not emphasize the positive, it tries to find ways to turn the negatives into positives. The Spanish brought many innovations to the Americas, such as animals, fruits and vegetables that changed diets, and aspects of Catholicism that improved Native lives. The Americans brought technologies and Democracy that improved the lives of the Mexican people they invaded in New Mexico. But as historians we should be looking from the perspectives of conquered people the effects those invasions had on their cultures and lives. It gets handed down to us. Your points about Rome and Arab conquest are well made. But those people blended and became something new in Spain. And the Spanish did much the same in Mexico and New Mexico, ie blended and became something new and unique. But there are still Native communities who were not completely assimilated who want their own histories and cultures. Gracias for your comments.

[@juanjoseleonvarea2495]

@@robmartinez7517 Yes, of course we must give a voice to those native tribes and their stories and points of view, as well as their achievements and culture before the arrival of the Spanish. My comment was because many times I see that there is a tendency to classify any attempt to show the positive aspects, as a "white legend". Tthere is still a lot of animosity towards everything Hispanic Greetings from Spain.

[@robmartinez7517]

@@juanjoseleonvarea2495 Hola, Juan Jose! Encantado! Espana es maravillosa, con historia y cultura complexo y muy interesante. I agree, there is much animosity toward Hispanic, in the USA is it often in the form of anti-Mexican, and sadly sometimes comes from Hispanics. Spanish culture and Mexican culture are beautiful, exciting and amazing, in my opinion. So are the histories.

[@EdgardoPlasencia]

Yeah ... and Cervantes or Velázquez are not European of course... : They insult themselves with the phrase " Europe begins in the Pirinees " In the future this will become more and more embarrassing.

[@gerardferreirorodriguez9576]

¡Qué casualidad! Estoy leyendo el libro "En defensa de España. Desmontando mitos y leyendas negras" de Stanley G. Payne, catedrático emérito de Historia en la Universidad de Wisconsin-Madison. Saludos desde Barcelona (España).

[@robmartinez7517]

Saludos desde Albuquerque, NM!

[@rosariocarneros6436]

Bonjour à tous et merci pour votre travail qui d'une importance capitale 👍👍👍👍 Alfonso Borreguo arrière petit fils de Geronimo fait également des conférences sur les véritables responsable du massacre des indiens . Il fait un travail acharné pour mettre en lumière et faire connaître l'existence( del camino Real ) qui dévoile des vérités que certaines nations veulent garder secrète !

[@7977279772]

Thanks Robert great history lessons. Im from West Texas which has a similar history. I am latino but am proud to be an American. I agree the US does not have a perfect history, we should celebrate the great accomplishments of our country but not hide the truths of the wrongs we have commited.

[@robmartinez7517]

History is messy but fun!

[@BLFulle]

Phillip Wayne Powell - Tree of hate.

[@robmartinez7517]

Yes, I mention it in the video.

[@BLFulle]

@@robmartinez7517 Sorry, I was just leaving a note to myself so I would remember the name of the book.

[@eddiesavedra3610]

Did you have a relative who was a counselor at the high school in Socorro no?

[@cangrejitamora]

Porque no se nos llama "spanish", al igual que se dice "british" y nos tenéis que llamar despectivamente "spaniard" ¿Leyenda negra también?

[@ThePalebloodHunter]

Es para que los Estadounidenses e Ingleses se refieran a los españoles europeos y no a los de Hispanoamérica.

[@Varmer]

"spaniard" no es un término despectivo sino el gentilicio correcto para referirse a los españoles. El inglés tiene una palabra diferente para decir "persona de España" (spaniard) y otra para decir "relativo o perteneciente a España" (spanish), mientras que nosotros tenemos solo una para decir ambas cosas: español.

[@anacasanova7350]

Spaniard es español. Persona nacida en España o nacionalizada española.

[@miryamamar9471]

A quick note, the Spanish Catholics thought well enough to baptize and acknowledge the NAs. The English and Dutch simply exploited and slaughtered the NAs.

[@ManuelMartinez-zq3vq]

Is chicanoism over? Manuel de 'Toas educated partialy at UC OF BOULDER 1970 UMAS MS Biology Activist 50 years, and im learning jits powerful. I NEEDREFERENCES OF NM migrations and or immigration realiable numbers. Retaining or reconquest of America by our birthrate large breeding population since its inception. You wisdom is exciting and necessary thank. you.

[@armandomartinez5019]

The black legend has carried on between the US and Mexico - Mexico can never do no right but somehow many of the issues between the two countries are problems created by both countries

[@alexnavarro6941]

He’s right. But there are differences between types of colonialism. The Spanish recognized by law the Indians as human beings and subjects (citizens) in the 16th century. Something that didn’t happen in the US until 20th century, nor Australia nor Africa, nor Haiti nor Indonesia. Under Spanish governance, native Americans were appointed captains, governors and nobles in the Spanish court, with Spaniards under their command. Indians in Delaware under US law had a price on their heads. 200 dollars for each red skin dead.

[@TrajityTheHoodHistorian]

🫡🫡🫡

[@fernandocolladojimenez3801]

Gloria al Duque de Alba los Europeos aun siguen teniendo pesadillas por su culpa

[@user-tm5em4vu7u]

May God bless you Rob!! Up all the Hispanic people and culture! Up the Spanish Empire and the Catholic Church! Viva la Hispanidad! Arriba el Imperio Español!! 🇪🇸 🇲🇽 ✝️ ❤️

[@manuelsanchezdeinigo3959]

¡Qué Viva El Reino de Pamplona Navarra, Casa de Jiménez, El Primero España para siempre! ¡Qué Viva! ⚔️ 🇪🇦🇺🇲⚔️

[@mamarrachopunpun]

More voices like yours must be listened to. But it's paramount for US and UK imperialism to keep Hispanic world from uniting and becoming a world power.

[@a.m7736]

10:48 total fake, Spain not only maintained the indigenous cultures, but mixet with them, learned his language and wrote the first indigenous gramatic, and build schools and an entire new society, black legend keeps on going...

[@robmartinez7517]

The Four Square Leagues was imposed on the Pueblo land bases and was an encroachment. Spain did not maintain Native cultures, Native people maintained Native cultures, in the face of Spanish attempts to eradicate Native religions and languages. A few Spanish learned Native languages to teach and convert them. Schools and missions were established to assimilate Natives and teach them to be Spanish subjects. Total fact. Real history.

[@The0ldboy]

@@robmartinez7517 Can you explain to me, if the Spanish really intended to eradicate the local language, why was Nautl or Quechua adopted by the empire and had grammar (created by the Castilians) before English? Its "facts" are based on current interviews with people from the 21st century by English-speaking white gentlemen who have a sense of guilt for what their ancestors did. Don't be upset, it is not the first book by an English speaker who has no idea of ​​Spanish or any Romance or Indian language to write on the subject "teaching us" about history and sponsored by the same universities that say, for example, that the first European establishment in the Pacific was San Diego. It is curious how they omit Acapulco, San Blas etc... there is a plaque in San Diego with those inscriptions signed by the American universities. Honestly, if I want to know something about North American Indians, I prefer to read Mr. Borrego, a descendant of Jeronimo (Spanish name) who is Indian and knows English and Spanish. There are already too many books by guero gentlemen, tell us the story.

[@llorensesteve6110]

Sorry but we can put in the same league spanish, france, british, dutch...the only place that natives survive was in Hispanic territories. that's a unquestionable fact

[@robmartinez7517]

Thanks for watching!

[@Abigailrp]

Highly flawed and biased video. How dare you compare on equal grounds what the Spaniards did compared to the savages of portugal, england, netherlands, germany and france.... for Christs sake...SPAIN LIBERATED SOUTH AMERICA AND BLENDED INTO ITS MULTIPLE CULTURES, it did not colonize it. Spain built 9 universities in S.America before the first brick of harvard was even laid. Spain built hospitals, ports schools, modern housing, churches, industry, cities and integrated technology into the americas.... we interbred with their people and shared every day life in EQUALITY. THE ONLY PROOF YOU NEED IS A TRIP TO SOUTH AMERICA, you see south americans and their culture. But you travel to north america and all you see is GENOCIDE AND OPRESSION of the native indians. GIVE ME A BREAK ffs!! VIVA ESPAÑA Y VIVA LATINO AMERICA!

[@robmartinez7517]

Thanks for watching!

[@user-tm5em4vu7u]

100%!! Arriba el Imperio Español!! Viva la Hispanidad!! 🇪🇸 🇲🇽 ✝️ ❤️