Marguerite Porete & The Mirror of Simple Souls

In this video we talk about the fascinating writer & possibly beguine Marguerite Porete (d. 1310).
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Sources/Suggested Reading:
"The Mirror of Simple Souls (From the 15th century translation of the French manuscript)". Edited by C. Kirchberger. First printed in 1927. Soul Care Publishing, Vancover, Canada.
(This is the primary source I used for the quotes in the video, it is a very old translation so I edited the quotes myself to make more sense in modern english).
For a more modern translation I suggest:
"Marguerite Porete: The Mirror of Simple Souls". In the "Classics of Western Spirituality Series. Paulist Press.
McGinn, Bernard (2001). "The Mystical Thought of Meister Eckhart". The Crossroad Publishing Company.
Tobin, Frank (Tranlsated & edited by) (1989). "Henry Suso: The Exemplar, with two German Sermons". In the "Classics of Western Spirituality Series". Paulist Press.
#Mysticism #Christianity #Religion

[@LetsTalkReligion]

Support Let's Talk Religion on Patreon: www.patreon.com/letstalkreligion Or through a one-time donation: www.paypal.com/paypalme/letstalkreligion

[@iyadal-najjar3512]

@aflatooon maasi you know he is an academic not a comedian, don't you? Anyone who tries to study Islam academically will find these people full of nonsense. It is better if Philp continues his work and never go to that mud hole.

[@bernardcornellisvanmeijere4375]

Hey Let's Talk Religion, I just received for my birthday the book 'Origins of the Kabbalah' by Gershom Scholem, this past Shabbat I read until the beginning of Chapter 2 and wanted to know if you have read it, so far I'm finding Mr. Scholem's views on the Origins of Kabbalah very interesting.

[@LetsTalkReligion]

@@bernardcornellisvanmeijere4375 I haven't read that particular book, but other works on Kabbalah by Scholem. He is great, albeit sometimes a but outdated.

[@bernardcornellisvanmeijere4375]

@@LetsTalkReligion I have his English translation, it contains his most up to date writings from shortly before his death in 1982 and the translated in question in notations under his name has given information up to date for 1989, still I'm sure that it is a little outdated but I am really enjoying it so far.

[@LetsTalkReligion]

@@bernardcornellisvanmeijere4375 He's one of the best when it comes to Kabbalah!

[@magdlynstrouble2036]

It's interesting how she very much influenced Ekhardt, but since she was female, and stood outside the patriarchy of the Church as a Beguine, she held less power and was given less leeway for her theology/philosophy, was executed, and her works were anonymous until extremely recently. Whereas Ekhardt, while somewhat tarnished, was always more influential.

[@corsaircaruso471]

The idea of the freedom from virtues reminds me of the Buddhist parable of the raft, which asserted that all spiritual practices, once having served their purpose, will be “abandoned,” otherwise they will become an attachment and a hindrance. However, this doesn’t mean that a spiritually accomplished person starts running around murdering and stealing. It just means that they no longer refrain from murder or theft simply because there is a precept against it, but rather because they’re no longer motivated by the factors that cause people to murder or steal.

[@mediocrates3416]

Also; murder is suicide..., theft is always an option when needs be.

[@clareryan2640]

I think this is true. Non attachment is freedom from good and bad impulses. Good impulses can be unexamined Aspergers (literal )applications of scripture others interpret metaphorical (it seems like you are doing the ‘right’ thing - except everyone thinks you are daft, and the consequences are negative) Enlightenment can be the insight that there is only choices and consequences

[@timetoreason181]

Yes, Buddha Dhamma taught me great lessons in life since leaving Christianity. Another great teaching is our perception, the world what we see is a creation of our own minds, which is TRUE even in psychology.

[@cv4809]

@@timetoreason181 the world is what it is not what you think it is. Shockingly the universe doesn't revolve around you

[@alberguti3937]

...that in a certain circumstance could mean kill or steal. Just adding to your idea, that may be misleading. If you know what I mean.

[@nfc598]

The fact that any normal person these day would never stand behind their work and beliefs so strongly as to be burned to death for them, i cant believe how strong she must have been to believe in herself so fearlessly

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

Allowing imbeciles to burn you at stake for a vivid imagination is unwise, there is no value in being a martyr.

[@MKTElM]

it is very difficult for me to engage in 'serious' conversation with someone known to me as only Neon Fluffy Cakes !! I'm serious !

[@nfc598]

@@MKTElM that's understandable.

[@MKTElM]

@@nfc598 Neon , fine , Cakes well Ok too .. but Fluffy ?

[@laralebeu36]

@@nfc598 It is beyond belief & fear. It is direct knowing of actuality.

[@silentvhs2835]

She describes ego death and grace very well. I will definitely be reading her book.

[@magdlynstrouble2036]

As I took my daily walk, my mind wandered into the thoughts of this mystic. I found myself thinking that what she was expressing (imo) was a way of life that was lived by caritas/love, based on compassion. This kind of person does not need words, books, church authority. They do not need the 10 commandments and the threat of hellfire to do good to other humans, animals, the planet. Their ego, linked to god, is linked to all of creation, and everything they do is as good for others as it is good for themselves. It then reminded me of many atheists' arguments against theists. Theists need a command to be good and punishment if they misbehave (like children do). Atheists do good just because they know in their hearts that it's right. As Paul said, " the mystery is ... Christ in you."

[@su....]

for me, a theist, it's because i was found myself utterly unable to do almost the slightest good that turned me to god, the source of all good, for that goodness i was desperately in need of.

[@redfullmoon]

Whoever said atheists do good just because they know what is good in their hearts does not understand the meaning of the term atheist. It just refers to not believing in a deity, nothing to do with having a sense of moral compass. And belief in a deity or being a theist doesnt even mean you're trying to be virtuous, it just means belief in a deity. It's just that modern Western culture tends to correlate said deity to the Christian God and to some form of purity or virtuousness. In India they worship violent deities. As far as what modern atheists hate it's more likely they are against fanaticism and Bible thumpers rather than a more measured lack of belief in a deity.

[@PseudoPseudoDionysius]

I needed this. Thank you so much! Brilliant video.

[@sleepforeveryone]

I am loving these videos. Thank you so much for all your hard work!

[@crucibleraven]

How wonderful! Thank you for sharing this with us. I'll try to find the book.

[@karekarenohay4432]

It's astonishing how from the inner of a spiritually very restrictive christian culture like Middle Age's (rich, but restrictive), some people come out with intuitions that remind those of eastern cultures. I think in the legend of "divine fool" Drukpa Kunley in Tibet, so saint that he didn't respect laws nor convivence rules because he was one with God. It reminds me too the spanish Alumbrados four centuries after Marguerite Pouret, or Miguel de Molinos and his Spiritual Guide. I feel like there is an only spiritual truth under all these traditions, like sparks of the same human experience, something fundamentally true burning under the ashes of the diversity of religions. It's trully fascinating!

[@carmofantasmapiu5575]

The image used as thumbnail is not marguerite porete but it is a painting of Mary mother of Jesus by Antonello da Messina.

[@LetsTalkReligion]

As there is no actual depiction of Porete, this will represent her for now.

[@angela_merkeI]

@@xMoac Didn't you read the reply? Because there's no picture of her.

[@adriengomez630]

All images of Mary, are girlfriend or wife of the artist or family member.

[@tolrem]

@@adriengomez630 Rosetti,the Pre Raphaelite painter, also used his wife and his mistress in his works.

[@159awi]

The medieval Church became as the Pharisees and scribes of Jesus day. As are many churches still to this day. Love God with all of your heart your mind your body and your soul. Just don't get too close to him, seems to be the message. Woe to you Pharisees and scribes.

[@MKTElM]

Love is an emotion .. it is out of human control ... Only our actions are under the control of our will .. So the best you can do is BEHAVE in such a way " as if " you love God with all your heart , mind and body . (( as we all should , if only out of gratitude)) . Perhaps then He may love you and cause you to experience the ultimate joy of loving Him .

[@itsok6640]

Lol it says so much more than just the simple platitudes youre suggesting but whatever

[@MKTElM]

We should be taught how to love God. Love is not something we can turn on and off like a tap !

[@lucasm7781]

Could you do a video about Umbanda someday? It's a really interesting and deep religion but it doesn't get enough attention in the English speaking world even tho it's a really common and famous religion in south America. It also has a huge cultural and historical background

[@Graviton-cc9bn]

By the metaphor of mirror I am reminded of abhinavgupta of kashmir who taught similar theory which had a strong "swatantrya" i.e freedom model built into it.

[@paulaOyeah]

The church fathers weren’t ignorant or illiterate. Her book threatened their earthly power by suggesting that one could have a direct connection to God without using clergy as an intermediary. Those guys were the best educated on earth at the time. They knew what they were doing, and modern governments have learned from it. The story you tell for the “why” is the story the illiterate, uneducated public were told. It’s the cover story.

[@LieutenantBoreyko]

Regarding the subject of free will, apart from two options: free will and God's will, I also encountered a third option, which can be described as: nothing happens. I discovered this third option in the discourses of a Persian mystic called Meher Baba. This is not the main theme of his message, but it can be found. In short: God in his original state of divine void is unaware of who he is and arises in him a desire to know himself. The question "who am I?" arises and God automatically receives the answer. The universe and all living beings in it are like a fictional, imaginary state "between" asking a question and receiving an answer. In this fictional state, God experiences himself as his lover, and when he annihilates himself in intense love, a real state is discovered in which there is no memory of the whole journey to union - because it didn't really happen. From the perspective of the common man, there is free will. From the saint's perspective, everything is done by God's will. From God's perspective, nothing is happening.

[@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl]

A Muslim mystic not Persian

[@LieutenantBoreyko]

​@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl He did not belong to any religion, but he came from a family of Irani Zoroastrian (I exaggerated when talking about Persian mystic) . He was a universalist, but Sufism seemed closest to him. He is commonly considered a Hindu, which is a serious mistake. He just lived in India and was using vedanta terminology.

[@LieutenantBoreyko]

In any case, it certainly cannot be said that he was simply "Muslim". He most often used the terminology of Sufism and Vedanta. However, he is best known for proclaiming himself the Avatar who takes upon himself the suffering of the world, which is at the heart of Christianity. The Avatar is God becoming human and he distinguished the Avatar from the "Perfect Masters" whom he referred to as "Qutubs" and regarded them as humans who had become God. According to him, there are only five Qutubs at any point in history. Apart from combining different religions, he is the only one (as far as I know) who presented a metaphysical vision in which God looks for an answer to the question "who am I?" and in which the answer to this question is achieved through the (illusory) evolution of consciousness. The soul consciousness evolves through identification with more and more advanced forms until the process of involution becomes possible in man. Involution is the process of passing through the different levels of the energy and mind worlds until the ultimate annihilation of the mind (fana).

[@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl]

I thought you were talking about some one else entirely sorry

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

God does not exist, therefore we are all free.

[@oceania68]

Fascinating, something to put on my list.

[@danielbowman7226]

Templars were annihilated in 1312. They were accused of similar heresies, I wonder.

[@tolrem]

How about doing one on the Cathar heresy which was extant at that time in Southern France.It went on a long time because the nobility believed in it.

[@M-i-k-a-e-l]

Yes! The good christians!

[@TheGeneralGrievous19]

@@M-i-k-a-e-l You mean the bad christians? Beliving there are two Gods fighting each other aka dualism, rejecting the fact that Jesus was God incarnated, beliving that material world, body and sex is evil, beliving in reincarnation, promoting anti-natalism, rejecting the Sacraments and the Church - all of those things are very un-Christian. Catharism is one of the very clear examples of heresies going very far from what the Holy Scripture teaches, without any doubt to sensical mind.

[@carlose4314]

@@M-i-k-a-e-l Cathars are not christians.

[@M-i-k-a-e-l]

@@carlose4314 Oh, they truly were, in the deepest possible sense. I dare you to explore that.

[@carlose4314]

@@M-i-k-a-e-l they were not

[@Vak_g]

Excellent video as always! I would like to ask you about the conection of Margueite Porete's ideas and Monothelitism. Eventhough this doctrine was abviously about Christology, the way Marguerite understood human existance after the union with God, seems to me very similar with how Monothelitism understoood Christ as a being. Also it would be fascinating if you could make a video about mystisism in eastern Christianity. Do you believe that western mystics were close to their eastern counterparts (such as Grerogy Palamas) or do they perceive union with God in a differnet way? Thank you

[@hanksandoval3466]

Maybe the ideas didn't fly over the heads, of the Heads, but they knew Exactly how that would affect their power.

[@SentinalforGod]

I believe this and understand. This, today. Confirmation

[@mrmachiavelli8380]

Thank God you don't take sides and put information to your audiences in a non bias way which the fundamental right of your listeners

[@PlayMouseTV]

hi sir, i love your videos and it is very refreshing to me as a muslim to re-visit/re-learn the histories of my religion (as well as others). I have a request: can you please cover up on how Islam spread into Southeast Asia, and what happened to the religions or beliefs before Islam came? It would mean a lot to me as i live here.

[@Rhaenarys]

I have to disagree with why she was condemned for her book. I mean...I'm not arguing they used that argument to find her guilty, but I don't believe that was the reason. She seems to have a good understanding of what was being taught...by the male preachers around her and everywhere, about the gospels. Like the way she and also you explained it as well as the meister was a perfect explanation of many parts of the Bible, especially parts with Jesus. And again...the men were preaching the same thing literally. And it wasn't heretic, it was doctrine. I think this has more to do with her being a woman preaching, which wasn't allowed. While women could hold high ranking positions in cases of no other available men, (think the plague, as thats the same period basically) they still weren't allowed to preach, just give out public news and make sure things are running smoothly until another male leader can step in. This was supposed to be one of the biggest sins for a woman, because doctrine at that time, especially, teaches that men can't be taught scriptures from a woman, because she can't possibly understand it the way the men can. They need men to explain it to them, and therefore, its heresy to teach a man, or preach to a congregation filled with men, as you as a woman are asserting to know more than they do, which according to the scriptures, you can't possibly know it better than them. Its a pretty sexists view, and honestly makes sense. Even worse because she's literally not even a nun whose taken vows, but wants to live and act like one. That already makes her like a false prophet, or heretic, to the men leading the church, even if she is preaching the same thing.

[@mirrorreflection3479]

How can you speak all that from your memory ? Please share this light with us so we become your loyal supporters 🙂

[@asifhassan4980]

Philip for you a line of poem of Mirza Ghalib " Ishrat e Qatra hai darya mein fana hojana "

[@flowersandwater666]

good to remind nirvana means annihilation, sounds like she could've been a great bodhisattva

[@adrianjerryfdo5959]

Try Saint Hildegard of Bingen . She has an interetsing life

[@sadikinjeryon9082]

Her silence during church trials resembles the silence of Jesus during Roman trials.

[@UniversalYakov]

St. Paul: "I am not under the Law, but under Grace...but yet still I uphold God's law!...I no longer live, but Christ['s will] through me!"

[@Babbajune]

Thank you ❤️

[@rmk7641]

Have you done, or would you consider doing, a video on St. Saint Teresa of Avila?

[@armanl9430]

very interesting topic.

[@marshalldarcy7423]

Same problem as presented by Paul and the Law in that the law is for the men who would disobey the law so it is for virtue as a law.

[@carlose4314]

The law is for everyone. As an analogy: Murder is illegal in every country. Does a person who does not murder need to follow the law?

[@marshalldarcy7423]

@@carlose4314 The path/way to God is not a law, it is what one wishes. I believe that the ""Law'' can be a block to a path/way and I think this has been expressed by many Christian mystics. You are right in that if one does not do bad because one wishes to do good this is different then if one does not do bad because they do not wish to be punished according to the law. The true mystic has a ""way"" and does not do that which would stop the ""way"".

[@carlose4314]

@@marshalldarcy7423 We are all sinners in need of God's grace. We cannot do anything on our own. That is basic Thomism.

[@marshalldarcy7423]

@@carlose4314 You have a free will and it can be a choice as to what path/way you wish go. Most people never get beyond worship of the material and always try to turn all worship into the material which is one of the reasons the Church destroyed and tried to destroy so many Christian mystics. St John of the Cross was saved from the inquisition by ""St. Teresa of Avila"", as the church was using the law to further it's material wealth.

[@envodas]

What's your outro music called? Great video as per usual.

[@danielbowman7226]

The Church neglects to teach people how to achieve this state of being (One with God etc.). Jesus criticized Pharisees for it also - that they are sitting on the "secrets" and called them Church of Satan. Ultimately he was executed...or at least an attempt was made :) Some of it is probably a worry that the rules and laws, which hold civilization together would be denigrated if not upheld 100% but I suspect it has more to do with jealousy and institutional and individual ego-power dynamics.

[@lidu6363]

Can one even be a proper mystic without being branded a heretic?

[@revi8300]

I think that's a ritual of initiation for any true mystic tbh

[@complimentary_voucher]

Organized religion is 90% organization, 10% misc. Disrupt the organization at your peril, as has been amply demonstrated. Any true religious inquiry/practice should logically welcome additional inputs and interpretations, but because it's mostly about animal hierarchy, that almost never happens. It is what it is, I suppose.

[@meezanlmt]

@@complimentary_voucher There many mystics who have been claimed by institutional branches in all three major religion tough.

[@magnuseng3345]

@@meezanlmt All three? Islam, Christianity...Hinduism?

[@meezanlmt]

@@magnuseng3345 I'm not too familiar with hinduism, but Judaism , Christianity and Islam for sure.

[@leelama3857]

Marguerite Porete's mysticism can be summed up in nine words: "Only good is happening because only God is happening."

[@apolinary29]

huh?

[@janinetheron5822]

@@apolinary29 there is no evil or good. Its just God.

[@dylanfrasier4054]

This is insight not heresy.

[@pomponi0]

@@janinetheron5822 That's not what she meant. Basically, our free will is bound to our shortcomings as imperfect beings. It takes an effort to be virtuous because there's always a part of us that wants to do what's in our earthly self interest, like why helping the poor when I can help myself? Why be a faithful husband if temptation is around the corner? Now, Marguerite argued that it is possible for a person to be so pure as to surrender themselves throroughly to God. By doing so, nothing of the individual's free will remains.

[@felixfedre518]

@@dylanfrasier4054 It's quite a selfish and nihilistic way of thinking, really, but the poor woman didn't deserve to die for it.

[@KoenVandevelde]

The message of mystics like Marguerite Porete and Meister Eckhart is so beautiful and inspiring. (But this understanding is not given to everyone, and certainly not to the rulers of the church itself, partly because Love is at odds with an institution of power).

[@Puuws]

an institution that wants power over others. An institution can hold power and be loving, its the motivation behind it and power is neutral in itself

[@khairilrashd]

In other parts of the world, this lady is identifiable to what the general public would have called a Sufi master. Greatly misunderstood by prosecutors, Her calm defiance to the last moment is not a surprise.

[@Alephkilo]

Just like Al Hallaj

[@magdlynstrouble2036]

Yes, as a Beguine, she defied the legitimacy of authority of the patriarchal Church. Love that! It's gnostic and it feels so modern. 💖

[@stephenmeier4658]

I thought women weren't allowed to leave the house in that part of the world

[@safiafraga]

Oh yes! This "state" of her and what she describes seems to be the same as tasawuf, the sufi way of aproaching Allah.

[@azilius5302]

@@stephenmeier4658 well you thought wrong mate.

[@Bandokker]

Somebody else mentioned here similarities between her teachings (?) and Buddhism. I do agree and I'm really fascinated how these concepts (unity with God, dissolution of the ego, leaving behind own will, and norms expected by society and following only the will of God/course of nature) are showing up again and again in completely different religious and social contexts: in Islam (Sufism), Buddhism, Daoism and as we see here: in Christianity too.

[@timetoreason181]

Yes Agree

[@JohnSmith-mg4df]

Straight up it’s even in Sikhi

[@agniswar3]

In Hinduism as well.

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

God does NOT exist in buddhism and "ego" is just some new age gibberish.

[@Bandokker]

As you wish... :)

[@valq10]

Man I love this channel so much. THIS KNOWLEDGE IS SO NEEDED.

[@LetsTalkReligion]

You are too kind!

[@marikesl]

I could not agree more!

[@pinkelephant4591]

I love this channel

[@katiawhitestar2857]

Same here. have been binging on it since I found this channel! It blows me away!

[@bojcio]

OK BUT WHY ARE WE YELLING?!

[@patrickmcguire1988]

If I am not mistaken, Christ himself claimed only to be doing the will of his father and taught the Lord’s Prayer “thy will be done on earth as it is is heaven”. Also, other mystics from other cultures makes the same claim: once unification is achieved, reliance on any human virtue system becomes unnecessary since, from the time of unification, understanding and perfect influence guides the accomplished.

[@jaye4071207]

I love your understanding. Perfectly said

[@Zeffs72]

I, respectfully, believe this to be a problematic statement. Once unification occurs, we don’t just become “super human”. The values more or less become internalized, where less conscious focus is needed to adhere to them. Therefore, in dealing with a certain type of ethical problem/conflict, we no longer need to use as much thinking and time as the resolution to the conflict becomes more or less internalized. That said, our ability to discuss our rationale does not become impeded. It’s just less effort for us overall.

[@ac-jn1iq]

@@Zeffs72 mmm…no. Even Paul said “we understand these things because *we have the mind of Christ.*” True unification is dying to yourself completely so that his mind becomes yours.

[@marksingleton7199]

@@ac-jn1iq One thing is not mentioned. The body being created. At the bottom of creation is the world of man that symbolically Eve cut off. The energy of God, that thought energy that surrounds the body which is the soul. The body is the anchor which allows us to be at a zero point and then grow up back to God through looking at the world of man and the peace and joy of God. The more we dislike the world here, the more we recoil from it into ourselves and then God. This is free will. The old testament describes it as accepting the truth. Symbolically shown in the Hebrew word for priest. You live in God but accept Gods life energy passing into this world through your soul. As a priest you accept joining your energy with others who have not yet accepted or understood. So as we seemingly borrow and assimilate Gods thought on the lowest possible level, like a child learning. We must not give away that energy to be used to create in falsity. We simply allow others to willingly share thought energy and not steal it. This is the battle of Earth. The aquisition of energy.

[@TheGeneralGrievous19]

Jesus Christ was God and therefore one with the Father. There are three persons of one being. But even persons of the Trinity are distinct. Humans are even more so distinct beings and souls. Unification with God in literal sense is not a Christian teaching. As was put by Chesterton Christianity gives us "ecstasy of creation". Disstiction between God and man is sacred beacuse it allows relationship and love. Simirally to separation between persons of the Trinity, humans as well as all created beings. True Love cannot exist without separtness of things. God creates many different and beutiful beings out of unity of void, to which e.g. Buddhists wants as to return. Christianity is exact opossite of Eastern (and often Western) myscticism of monism. Ultimately monism brings us to one large being loving himself. It's super-selfish view of the universe which cherishes only itself. Or it brings us to annihilation of things into one large, peaceful but dead void without color, natures and love. Christianity relies on seeking objective Truth about God and universe that is outwards. Mystical monists on subjective experiences and meditation - they focus inwards. In this Christianity is in some alliance with greatest philosophers of the West - Socrates, Plato, Aristotle. In the East we e.g. have Madhvacharaya who also held similar views of God and universe. Christianity had great mystics like Cathrine of Siena, Theresa of Avila or John of the Cross, but they always reminded themselves that God's public revalation is the most important thing, and that we should interpret personal experiences in accordance with it. Mysticism is elitarian and only some pepole become true mystics, Scripture and Tradition is for everyone to see, it speaks to sensibilities of everyday man and woman as well as rational philosophers. It is for eveyrone

[@amelisticamente56]

i just had to read a paper for class about the roles of women in the middle ages and they talked about the beguines! so interesting to see a deeper dive on them

[@michaelodom7707]

Have you ever done a video on “The Cloud of Unknowing?”. It’s a 14th century mystic text that is superb but you don’t hear much about

[@МарияЛесниченко-б4я]

What's this book about ?

[@Carlos44]

If I were stranded on a desert island with only one book, hopefully it would be "The Cloud of Unknowing," along with a later shorter work by the same anonymous author, "The Book of Privy Counsel." There are a number of translations from the middle English. I prefer Johnston's.

[@GeertMeertens]

@@Carlos44 Why these books and why would you have to keep reading those on your island? What is the message these books convey or are you still unclear on this?

[@deirdrelewis1454]

I would add Julian of Norwich. Her book, like the Cloud of Unknowing is easier to understand. The problem with being a mystic is that what they experience is really difficult to put into words. For a modern take on mysticism, try Thomas Merton.

[@theostapel]

A wonderful treatise of the mystic love - and surrender to God. It is very practical - in nature and the Nature it hints at - is the Divine one. This work has rarified love - pouring out of the words themselves and the aspirant's heart dances - in awe. So beautiful - just so. Fare thee well.@@МарияЛесниченко-б4я

[@rogerhinman5427]

And another book has been added to my Wish List. Fascinating theology.

[@soifrane]

Marguerite Porete certainly looks interesting but be aware that her writings are not an easy read. Personally, I gave up. In the middle ages they had a very different way of saying things. I find it more beneficial to read about her - or to listen to youtube talks - in order to grasp the essence of her thought/experience. Find some extracts to make up your mind.

[@Christian_Maoist.]

@@soifrane Have any recommendations?

[@nakednous]

Best reading ever!

[@solelysoul8543]

@@soifrane texts of SELF-REALISATION are allegorical, esoteric and NOT literal. They are NOT to be understood by logic, reason and rational thinking. They have to be EXPERIENCED, SELF-REALISED.

[@christopherlin4078]

everybody is god in a filter

[@wesammahana2652]

very interesting character remind me with another character quite similar, 400 years earlier, specially when you quoted Marguerite talking about LOVE, Her name was Rabi a al- Adawiyya, peace and blessings be on their both souls

[@spiritualanarchist8162]

Like Julian of Norwich and Meister Eckhart , the best Catholic mystics were either called heretics or ignored.

[@theostapel]

You only need these few - to serve millions of aspirants - with their inspiration. Not only humans - for for the ages. Fare thee well - in life's journey

[@simonvegas793]

So many of these same concepts exist in various cultures and religions, all through recorded history... I think we're at a time where it is fair to say the human mystical experience is a very real thing, it's just something that not everyone has experienced.

[@nasifnazmulanik6634]

@@AR-gu2no Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17

[@nasifnazmulanik6634]

@@AR-gu2no Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34

[@Eseolire]

@@AR-gu2no you don't follow "Abrahamic dogma" so why haven't you seen it?

[@helendunn9905]

There are thise who have seen God and know that LOVE IS ALL. Our "will" is human and limited by our fears and weaknesses. ❤

[@TheCinmatra]

Meister Eckhart (1260-1328 CE) was clearly influenced by her, but could not risk directly referring to her in his own writings.

[@cjoutright9255]

I feel like the Gnostics would’ve been a fan

[@magdlynstrouble2036]

There were a lot of gnostic still lurking around in those days! Gnosticism serves the soul and God ( as One). The Church supports the patriarchy and protects the (material) wealth of its leaders.

[@M-i-k-a-e-l]

@@magdlynstrouble2036 Should still have been a few real cathars around at the time.

[@anahata3478]

The gnostics weren't similar at all. They were incredibly elitist and very dualist in their worldview, while mystics are monists in general

[@M-i-k-a-e-l]

Who taught this woman? Was she in some way connected to the cathars? Can you make a video about the cathars and do them justice?

[@andreimustata9829]

I am not sure that the church missed the subtilty that such a free spirit would still do the right thing without willing it. I think rather that the church correctly understood that such a person would undermine their complete authority.

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

Spinoza too

[@GeertMeertens]

That the church correctly understood and there their understanding ended. Complete authority implies incomplete understanding. ignorance.

[@theostapel]

Human authority - but not complete - AUTHORITY.

[@hamidsarmadi1100]

Please make a video about Mansour Al-Hallaj

[@user-ld7ch1er6j]

This!

[@maaz87]

Doesn't it sound similar to Hallaj and both had the same end thank God that Hallaj wasn't burned but he gave his life after all.

[@abdar-rahman6965]

So she was another Mansur Hallaj - Seems, she was True and who burned her were Ignoramus

[@Saffron-sugar]

"Jesus take the wheel" is what Marguerite basically said....and these "good Christian" men burnt her alive for it. They clearly didn't have the saying WWJD either. Because Jesus didn't go around cooking people if he didn't care for their opinions.

[@bored78612]

Christianity in Europe in the middle ages was straight up barbaric.

[@willbass2869]

Really? Basing your argument on the Churches reaction to the actions of a few? Even given many faults Christianity has, overall, been a beacon of light unto the World. Sorry we don't measure up to you, Mr. Perfection

[@monasulaiman6376]

It seems she was a Sufi, they also were killed, like Al Hallaj.

[@martin92177]

Actually, she is the opposite of dualistic - when the self / ego / individual soul is annihilated there is only the One. As Jesus said, let you all be One (ie without judgement or distinction) as my Father and I are One. This is something well understood in Zen for example, and in Buddhism more generally - the emptiness and transience of the individual’s sense of self - something conventional Christianity finds very hard to accept, even though that was the core of Christ’s message - to enter the Kingdom, you must leave self behind. Not become unselfish, in the virtuous sense, but have no sense of self at all.

[@timetoreason181]

There is NO concept of 'self' in Buddha Dahmma

[@ohamatchhams]

@@timetoreason181 Depends on what defined as "self", some attributes Anatta as non-self as you might perceive, while some interpret anatta as the denying of eternal self, but then again the problem of Theravada interpretation of Anatta is it's caused 14 Unanswerable Questions to arise in itself, this on top of how Awakening/Bodhi can be itself can be deconstructed if Bodhi is considered to be not created, Mahayana and Vajrayana Sects and Schools' solves this by having Dhyani Buddhas and further into Adi-Buddha as the source of Trikaya and Trailokya, with Two Mandalas has being what constitute Emptiness and it's supposed Characteristics and Activities compared to Theravada's psychological interpretations stuck at meaningless counting of Kalpas within it's Samsara

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

You are definitely a separate individual in buddhism, it's irrelevant what some rabbi has to say, he clearly didn’t have a clue as he talked about sin, redemption and the coming end of the world. Just another failed apocalyptic preacher.

[@siddislikesgoogle]

She didnt understand that will isn't annihilated, it is harmonized with and indistinguishable from Gods Will. So it seems to no longer be, but it is.. God is also, Virtue manifested, if you are with Him, your life is in virtue, not free from it. I can see why she was considered a heretic.

[@christopherlin4078]

epistemologically we are not god, ontologically we are god.

[@AuthorLHollingsworth]

The Catholic Church has hurt so many people. Actually, religious ideas from many faiths have hurt many people. Murder is against God, and that's regardless of faith.

[@jeanettecook1088]

Murder is "against God"? Have you read the old testament? "And the lord said unto him... go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark." Ezekiel 9:4-6 Just one example. God also ordered the Jews to kill anyone who did not believe in him..... that sounds like murder to me.

[@abdielrainbowhellsangel2256]

It's nice to think that, but, if everything is created and part of God, Then this includes Murder. The Yin Yang ☯️ is a good symbolic representation of this. There are 'evil' and murderous 'Gods'. All shades of the 1. ☝️ It's all one under the Sun (Son)😉. Doesn't mean you should do whatever, cause you have a Purpose a Destiny, a True Will. Maybe it is to murder.... But that's up to you to discern.

[@nottherey4333]

God should be against murder but I'm not sure if that really is the case in every religion. Great atrocities are commited in name of God.

[@marksingleton7199]

@@jeanettecook1088 The Tora is symbolic. Its about thought and the use of energy. Caine killed Abel. This symbolizes us killing the good thought within us. Eve gained knowledge from the tree of good and evil. This split her and Adam into awareness which is animal thought or the body and higher thought which desires truth and love. When God says go and kill something it represents killing bad thought so that good thought can grow. This represented in a parable so that people can understand. The story will use life events like Pharaoh to show how we think as individuals and groups and how energy is given, stolen, killed or enslaved. Today the Bible has become a religious icon. In reality its a bronze age self help book full of symbolism that has been forgotten or given a new identity by the ignorant and power hungry. The free will in the Bible is to choose between giving Gods energy to ourselves or share thought energy with God who gave it in the first place.

[@carlose4314]

The Catholic Church has not hurt many people. Porete's heresy would have caused the damnation of many if left unchecked. She was also executed by the civil authority, not the ecclesiastical authority.

[@valq10]

To me, she is a saint and martyr.

[@UniversalYakov]

Thanks, Val

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

Martyrs are fools

[@UniversalYakov]

@@TheGuiltsOfUs if there is no God, at least they lived fiercely and died that way too

[@mohamadibrahimallapitchay2825]

So do Miguel Serveto Conessa.

[@evonne315]

I feel ill knowing how she perished, her writings are amazing. I can't help but see a patriarch threatened by a book written by a woman with far more "she"s and "her"s than they could feel comfortable with. Plus thier egos were threatened with the idea you may lose your self identity completely in God.

[@jacovawernett3077]

Yeshua of Nazareth was a free spirit and rebel.

[@aditya-rt4zb]

17:35 ‘God doesn't have to choose do the right thing, he just does the right thing because he is god' such kind of ideas look so fascinating, why on earth almost every tradition find this thing, even krishna said that good and bad are the concepts of human when you are extinguished by the knowledge all your done and to be done sins are going to be ultimately burnt. This is also a similar thing that when you know yourself there is no longer the difference between right and wrong because whatever true self will do is ultimately going to be right because he is a sidfha purusha (achieved man, sorry for the bad translation) There is an old saying ‘Whatever happens is for good and right reasons, WHATEVER'

[@bernardcornellisvanmeijere4375]

The idea of uniting with God through the annihilation of one's will is somewhat similar to ¹a part in¹ 'Perkai Avot' in which we Jews are encouraged to annihalate our will before God's will and he (God) will annihilate the wills of our enemies against his (God's) will. ¹edited

[@GeertMeertens]

It is not uniting with God, it is shifting perspective and realize you were never ever separate from God. You can only do that once the ego is seen through as an illusion, as ignorance. The ego, your will and all your enemies are illusions in any dream although it always requires an awakening to see that. You have experienced awakening from dreams thousands of times already. When will it finally sink in? Do that very same shift in perspective in the dream called life and feel how it is to be awakened. And please let us know.

[@annsmahboob3495]

I would love it if you could make a video on 'Abdel Qadir Al Jilani', a Sufi saint who has had great influence on Muslim theology and mysticism since his lifetime.

[@JonasAnandaKristiansson]

Yes

[@daltsu3498]

My heart breaks for her 😭

[@MKTElM]

Yes , we are moved by bravery in the face of malignant inqusition .

[@Michael-ju8ks]

United with God, she did not feel pain. Thank God!

[@AlejandroMS67]

Misogyny has been part of the Church since its inception, when Peter was jealous of Mary of Magdalene for being more deserving of Jesus' teachings than any of the other disciples, so much so that he scolded her publicly after JC's death. No doubt this was inherited from Judaism since they were all jews to begin with. And thus these male Inquisitors were again threatened by the intellectual and spiritual superiority of a woman, in this case Porete, and what better way to quell their fears of inadequacy and the uncomfortable cognitive dissonance of self-loathing than to burn her at the stake, and protect their delicate fragile egos from having to admit that they were incapable of understanding text and concepts that were over their small-minded heads. God forbid a woman even be literate . . .

[@yqafree]

Although I don't agree with her thesis I think that there are many lifestyle choices that fundamentalists need to be more tolerant of. I accept and appreciate her sacrifice, I wish she could have kept a following for even longer

[@GeertMeertens]

It is not a thesis or her thesis. She tells you that your ego is an illusion. As in any dream. All mystics say so. But please do disagree if you prefer to keep dreaming.

[@simonhendrickx6884]

Thanks for this I love your work. Since people make alot of requests on the comments here are mine ^^ more Christian Mysticism would be really cool, maybe Ruysbroeck or John of the Cross or the Carmelites in general. Suhrawardi would also be interesting in Islamic topics.

[@LetsTalkReligion]

Will definitely do more Christian mysticism! And the Suhrawardi video has been in the works for a long time, so it's coming eventually too!

[@JamesRichardWiley]

The Vatican vs Marguerite Porete Both disconnected from reality in a power struggle. She was burned at the stake by the representatives of Jesus. So sad.

[@yaakovbendavid2361]

Edgy

[@Alephkilo]

What is Reality?

[@sniffingdogartofficial7257]

Thank you for uploading this! I recently came across your channel and it's truly wonderful! I'm sure that your audience would love to see a video on Melchizedek; do you plan to do one about their teachings anytime soon?

[@zeljkaznatizeljka2758]

I love Melchizedek! I would love to hear more about him!

[@jacovawernett3077]

Free Spirits of God walk where they want despite the hassles.

[@jacovawernett3077]

Hebrews 6:19..I am Anchor. I my heart I love all you of you. As a net cast wide and small and true. As a weeping willow..

[@sharini65]

Her idea of annhilating the will in irder to be united with God is the very idea muslims practice fasting and reciting the shahada with full conviction

[@MKTElM]

A Christian girl I knew long ago told me this : " Jesus is inside you , you just dont let him say and do , you only want your own self to say and do .

[@SpiritualySpeaking1]

“The consequences of this idea of the will being eradicated is the reason why this book upsets so many people.“ It is the human will, the carnal mind as Saint Paul called it, mortal mind, human mind, egoic mind, or by whatever other name, that refuses to let go.

[@zeljkaznatizeljka2758]

My thoughts exactly!

[@aseeker2109]

Marguerite Porete brings to mind what has become to be known as the Unity Prayer as reveal by Jesus to Elizabeth Kindelmann (The Flame of Love of the Immaculate Heart of Mary). In this prayer Jesus expresses and reveals the desire of His Sacred Heart. It is so reminiscent of what we find in the Gospel of St John. May our feet journey together, may our hands gather in unity, may our hearts beat in unison, may our souls be in harmony, may our thoughts be as one, may our ears listen to the silence together, may our glances profoundly penetrate each other, may our lips pray together to gain mercy from the Eternal Father.

[@revpadma]

I love how the Sufi's say this 'We are helping God to live.'. 💖

[@mattzeigler110]

Was just researching her myself a bit. Thank you, excellent video. I'd love some time if you did one about the Desert Fathers/Mothers. I've heard some of them learned from direct disciples of Jesus or from disciples of direct disciples. I've also heard they influenced Sufism or those who would influence them later.

[@faccafromklepp]

Annihilation - Nirvana. Will - Sankhara. Clearly the venerable Marguerite Porete reached a state of awakening similar to that of the Buddhists, Taoists and Vendantas. Yet she never read Upanishads or suttas. All she had was hear own heart! In the words of the Most Venrable Achariya Chach "The book of the heart is the only one worth reading". Liberation is universal.

[@noone3216]

What she discusses of the soul reminds me somewhat of the advaita Realisation. Kind of. ie. a complete dissolution of the soul back into God

[@Steven_Rowe]

So Its taught not to judge less God judges you, he taught forgiveness and mercy. Well he didn't bank on a church led by Satan did he. The church showed no mercy, no compassionate and tortured anyone who challenged it.

[@adempc]

Ego death terrifies the church. Of course.

[@cybercel164]

These women were probably children of Mary, hence the secrecy.

[@cybercel164]

(like me)

[@banjogyro]

17:56 Unfortunately I don't think it flew over their heads, they just wanted control over people and this idea is dangerous to the success of their church

[@kenjones7719]

"The inferior devotee says, 'God exists, but He is very far off, up there in heaven.' The mediocre devotee says, 'God exists in all beings as life and consciousness.' The superior devotee says: 'It is God Himself who has become everything; whatever I see is only a form of God. It is He alone who has become maya, the universe, and all living beings. Nothing exists but God.' - Sri Ramakrishna

[@ENOC772]

The martirs of freedom, mind freedom and religion freedom, are many. From Jesus, Sócrates, Hipatia of Alejandria, Giordano Bruno, Margerite Porete... to John Lennon. Rivers of blood had been split upon the earth, and in all cases we can say: "Forgive them, cause they dont know what they are doing".

[@jenniferleonard3172]

These teachings were branded as heretical, but are totally biblical. Look at the concept of grace in the New Testament, for example Ephesians 2:8-10: " 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

[@josephtein3835]

And I don't think it's correct to talk about her (or Meister Eckhart's) "ideas" as if they were some intellectual or theoretical beliefs. She was expressing in words her knowledge that came from direct experience. How can you recant that?

[@gabrielpaulinodossantos1538]

Very interesting video. You could also do a video on the theology of pseudo-dyonisis.

[@LetsTalkReligion]

Was thinking about this yesterday..

[@jameswight6259]

Yes please!

[@urniurl]

@@LetsTalkReligion You could make the connection with Eriugena and the Periphyseon. Fascinating stuff but a lot of work!

[@energypucasog9848]

Love your channel, please you should consider making a video on the Baal Shem Tov, Rabbi Israel ben Eliezer.

[@leilahassim7025]

Pls see my theses on said mystic... ‘The articulation of Protest in Margeurite Porete’s The Mirror of Simple Souls’ and ‘A Comparative Study of the articulation of Liminality in the Vernacular Theology of Julian of Norwich’s Revelations of Divine Love and Margeurite Porete’s The Mirror of Simple Souls’

[@syedahuma3277]

In February...Prime Minister of Pakistan suggested your video on ibn arabi....that's how you're pretty famous here and how I came across your channel

[@theguyver4934]

What is your thoughts on mystical Christianity ?

[@DamonD_Absences]

It seems to me that her idea of “being rid of virtues” would be perfectly consistent with the Aristotelian strand of scholasticism that has been the backbone of the Catholic Church since Thomas Aquinas. If God is pure actuality, the *actus purus*, then his being and his act are perfectly united as one and this eternal act of being is perfectly good. Now, if a created creature were to be able, by the Grace of God, to be cleansed of their sinful nature and be filled by the eternal act of perfect being that is God, then ipso facto this creature’s actions would be expected to be in perfect alignment with God’s goodness, insofar as it is achievable by a created being. This just seems to me to be the perfection of Aristotelian virtue ethics. Once the rational deliberation and habituation necessary for a sinful and unperfected human nature to attain dispositional virtue are relieved from the essence of the being, then all that remains is pure disposition toward the Good. “Virtue”, here, is for imperfect mortals, whereas the Good (in Aristotle it’s “eudaimonia”) is the name for the end towards which virtue is transcendentally oriented, but which itself does not require the conditions necessary for human virtue, by virtue of the fact that it is itself the ground of virtue. So if one is relieved of the nature which needs rational deliberation and habituation in order to be disposed towards acting virtuously, all that remains is a pure disposition of every act within the Good itself. The mortal shackle of philosophy has been transcended, and all that remains is pure disposition towards the good, which necessarily entails that every act be, by the grace of the indwelling God, perfectly good (remember, Jesus needn’t be a philosopher because philosophy is for mortals in a state of imperfection and unknowing).

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

"Knowledge of good and evil is nothing but the emotion of pleasure and pain in so far as we are conscious of it" - Benedict de Spinoza No need for the erroneous notions of Plato or Aristotle.

[@user-vw6xp5nl6t]

It seems the closer you get to God -- the stranger you seem to the world. Surely union with the Divine means we must expect unusual words and forms of expression to manifest themselves. God is not a brick wall, but the source of a creativity, variation and life.

[@Ai-he1dp]

How weak the church of the time was and is?...to fear such writings...god bless you marguerite jesus loves you more than you ever knew.

[@hussainthecanadian6646]

A Fascinating figure indeed, she reminds me of Rabi'a Al-Adawiya, a female Sufi master. The idea of Fana', annihilation of the soul into the will and majesty of Allah is intoxicating if I may say so.

[@lornelz]

Poor Woman might have been ahead of her time, or simply starting a new religion. Either way, no church should ever have that authority over people's lives.

[@Ai-he1dp]

In short its misogyny...and nothing more or less. Shame that the church has never apologized...then again if they started apologizing for their wrongs there no doubt would be shortage of ink and paper.

[@williamkoscielniak7871]

The irony of a church that claims to worship the heretic Jesus and calls his heretical apostles "saints", yet then condemns people for being heretical. I think the calmness that she faced her death with may be explained precisely by the experiences that led to the thoughts that led to her death. The Buddhist monks who immolated themselves during the Vietnam war have proven that when someone has reached a certain state of consciousness, then even the body being burned to death cannot phase them. If she truly experienced unity with God and knew how to enter into that state, then she would naturally be calm during any situation, including being burnt at the stake.

[@Khodam101]

Even though centuries have passed but still the injustice reminds me of current Islamic republic of Iran!