Lex Fridman on interviewing Obama, AOC, and other left-wing leaders

Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Saagar Enjeti: Trump, ...
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GUEST BIO:
Saagar Enjeti is a political journalist & commentator, co-host of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar and The Realignment Podcast. He is exceptionally well-read, and the books he recommends are always fascinating and eye-opening. You can check out all the books he mentions in this episode here: lexfridman.com...
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[@LexClips]

Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6ndaZxvZa2jaKM Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: lexfridman.com/sponsors/cv8311-sa See below for guest bio, links, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. *GUEST BIO:* Saagar Enjeti is a political journalist & commentator, co-host of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar and The Realignment Podcast. He is exceptionally well-read, and the books he recommends are always fascinating and eye-opening. You can check out all the books he mentions in this episode here: lexfridman.com/saagar-books *CONTACT LEX:* *Feedback* - give feedback to Lex: lexfridman.com/survey *AMA* - submit questions, videos or call-in: lexfridman.com/ama *Hiring* - join our team: lexfridman.com/hiring *Other* - other ways to get in touch: lexfridman.com/contact *EPISODE LINKS:* Saagar's Book Recommendations: lexfridman.com/saagar-books Saagar's Substack (where he recommends more books): saagarenjeti.substack.com/ Saagar's X: x.com/esaagar Saagar's Instagram: instagram.com/esaagar Breaking Points: youtube.com/@breakingpoints The Realignment Podcast: www.youtube.com/@therealignment Saagar's Linktree: linktr.ee/esaagar *SPONSORS:* To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts: *Eight Sleep:* Temp-controlled smart mattress cover. Go to lexfridman.com/s/eight_sleep-cv8311-sa *AG1:* All-in-one daily nutrition drinks. Go to lexfridman.com/s/ag1-cv8311-sa *LMNT:* Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix. Go to lexfridman.com/s/lmnt-cv8311-sa *BetterHelp:* Online therapy and counseling. Go to lexfridman.com/s/betterhelp-cv8311-sa *Shopify:* Sell stuff online. Go to lexfridman.com/s/shopify-cv8311-sa *NetSuite:* Business management software. Go to lexfridman.com/s/netsuite-cv8311-sa *PODCAST LINKS:* - Podcast Website: lexfridman.com/podcast - Apple Podcasts: apple.co/2lwqZIr - Spotify: spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 - RSS: lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ - Podcast Playlist: kzbin.info/aero/PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 - Clips Channel: kzbin.info *SOCIAL LINKS:* - X: x.com/lexfridman - Instagram: instagram.com/lexfridman - TikTok: tiktok.com/@lexfridman - LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: facebook.com/lexfridman - Patreon: patreon.com/lexfridman - Telegram: t.me/lexfridman - Reddit: reddit.com/r/lexfridman

[@JakePantyShields]

Fridman is a self loathing Jew. Spineless

[@Ruckus45]

It's why golfing with someone is so important in business. Spend 4 hours in a cart eith someone through ups and downs and you really get to know them

[@quidproquo3933]

you typically play 3 maybe 4 holes depending on seriousness of the meeting .

[@Pine_Gap_Island]

Thank you so much for that comment. I never understood that until your explanation. But now I understand it. I was in the Army Reserve for a few years and on a training weekend or course, you'd spend the entire time with people you don't know outside it and often with people you've never met before. But over just a 36 hour period together, you get to know each other (for better or worse, although usually better) perhaps even more than many of your own friends, in a certain way. I suppose golf might not be digging trenches in the rain while some corporal is barking at you but at it would be far more engaging than a dinner.

[@SaulH1]

​@@quidproquo3933for a pleb like myself, what would be the total length of time required to finish a game of that length?

[@Pacem90]

⁠@@quidproquo3933I’ve never heard of someone playing less than 9 holes…

[@embracedmadness]

Or you see them cheat

[@Kevinschart]

Inauthentic people can't do long interviews. They run out of canned responses and risk relationships if they tell too much truth. I'm not a trump guy but the dude says what's on his mind. Some of it is good, some bad, but he's less of a bot than a lot of politicians. People respect that.

[@Driblus]

People respect someone where at least 75% of what he says is either an outright lie or evidence of massive incompetence or ignorance? Really? America is dumber than I thought.

[@shinobi-no-bueno]

​@@Driblus how did you arrive at this 75% figure? What is the best explanation of an outright, substantive lie that Trump has told?

[@MrFrink74]

​@@shinobi-no-bueno en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_or_misleading_statements_by_Donald_Trump During his last presidential term Trump made over 30,000 false or misleading statements. America is dumb. 49 percent of America voted for a guy who told us that Hatian immigrants are eating the dogs and eating the cats. His health czar, RFK, is trying to get the polio vaccine banned. It's gonna be a fun four years, lololol.

[@cillamensah6190]

@@Driblus u seems dumber than i thought 😢

[@Peppersdady72]

@@Driblus what are you smooking....

[@Podcastforthewin]

Makes me think of those press meetings during Covid here in Canada. They all asked the same question everyday and never what we wanted to know.. like they literally asked questions that sounded like they were told what to ask.

[@fishmonger7020]

Your thoughts were correct. They get told what to ask and thus get the privilege of asking. That’s the news business. Canada’s news is paid for by the state. What did you expect. Get rid of Trudeau before you lose your country.

[@Pine_Gap_Island]

_"Cancel culture works."_ - AOC on Tucker Carlson being fired from Fox News.

[@WilkinsMichael]

I think his private communications being core evidence in FOX losing close to 800 mil had something to do with it.

[@Driblus]

Tucker Carlson got fired from Fox News because he cost them an insane amount of money for lying and defaming specific people. He didnt really get canceled. He cost his employer a shit ton of money and was fired for it. Seemed like the right thing to do, as Tucker has turned bat shit crazy after he left Fox. Not that he wasnt crazy at Fox, he was. He just wasnt batshit crazy.

[@findmeinthecarpet]

Because any longer than 30min and the truth would start to seep out.

[@saguirre760]

That bothers you? when all Trump does is lie

[@chrishudson9525]

@@saguirre760 Hyperbole isn't going to convince anyone of anything. Try a different strategy and you might be successful.

[@saguirre760]

@@chrishudson9525 I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just don’t mind pointing out the contradictions.

[@CarlosSamuel-ms9ee]

Bernie Sanders has been on both here and Joe Rogan. Other than Trump, which right wing politicians have done an open podcast on a neutral platform such as this? It's mostly just that politicians in general avoid these platforms.

[@fishmonger7020]

@@CarlosSamuel-ms9eeI’m not a socialist but Bernie is legit. He believes in his cause and he doesn’t waiver. That being said he’s the only left wing guy to do podcasts. On the right I can make many. JD Vance, Trump, Rand Paul, tulsi, RBK, Dan Crenshaw, Jesse Ventura, etc. The people on the left are selling a different thing. It requires snippets. Long form discussion is for the adults and the left can’t hang.

[@xRiddleMeThisYouTube]

Machiavelli's 'The Prince' suggests spending as little time as possible in the public eye and that it's only necessary to maintain an appearance of morality, rather than actually living a life of good (I'm paraphrasing).

[@awp24]

Sagaar's passion for journalism in a historical lens always pumps me up. Love that ending!

[@dido5835]

You just answer your question with your first two sentences. It’s not about left or right it’s about establishment.

[@squatch545]

Except the right is the establishment.

[@dido5835]

@@squatch545 so it’s the “left”. The real left never came to power.

[@will9134]

@@squatch545lol rightttt

[@phant1795]

Except every single left wing leader is an establishment, while it's a mixed bag with right wing leaders

[@johnobrien5037]

​@@squatch545 You just didn't do that.

[@lexingtonlee]

Left wing and liberal are NOT the same thing. Lex would be one of the few who could get more than Bernie on his show because he’s respectful. It’s a lesson for the others including commenters. Being respectful to people you disagree with is the way.

[@fishmonger7020]

I agree but it doesn’t matter how respectful you are. Kamala is never doing 3 hours without a script.

[@kate2create738]

While there is a difference, the issue I have with the liberals that should be called out is that they allowed the left to become extremists under their watch. It’s one thing to allow people to form their own ideas, but hypocritical they turn around anyone who is center or conservative to be too extreme. This needs to be called out and it’s why everyone who is not left or liberal is looking at each of them with suspicion. The liberals let the left sleep in their bed and expect zero accountability for the destruction the left has done to not just the Democrat party, but to our country. Zero sympathy from the rest of us who have been forced to deal with the consequences well before Trump arrived!

[@mikewilliams6025]

Trump sat down with people where there was no love lost in either direction. So your theory is wrong.

[@freegadflyathome]

​@@mikewilliams6025yeah, for some reason people will sit/ stand there and let him lie to their face and even cheer him on. Kind of a weird phenomenon

[@Alarak.]

@@freegadflyathomesounds like you suffer from TDS

[@darenm617]

Because they’re all actors.

[@viktordoe1636]

actors go on podcasts though

[@BobFosterMedia]

Yep, in the tradition of Ronald Reagan.

[@MikeW-u4z]

Sagar is excellent, thanks for having him on!

[@johnradovich8809]

Lack of substance.

[@johnobrien5037]

Talk about an information firewall.

[@patrickmcvey2924]

Saagar please create a solo podcast. Love your info

[@SmittyWitTheVibes]

Shout out to my boy Lex I been rockin w/ ya since the Kanye interview

[@taiwanjohn]

@5:37 -- _"From what I understand, all of us blew it out that night..."_ I think a major factor in this shift is the advent of streaming services and the devices that can deliver them. In particular, there's been a shift in viewership of alternative media sources from the desktop/phone to the living room TV. In that sense, it's fair to say that these "alternative" sources are becoming "mainstream" now... just without the hammer-lock control of big-money advertisers which has been the downfall of legacy media's credibility.

[@RyanChaneyGolf]

How long can they go without saying something contradictory? 10-15 minutes?

[@Ajsopranosrubberdux]

Did you listen to Trump on Rogan??

[@phototommyfive]

I think the US government should have its independent PUBLIC server to host these podcast/shows as a way to counteract KZbin's influence AND to ensure that relevant news reaches the American people. Like it or not, the internet has become the public square, and the government has a responsibility to uphold and protect the ability of Americans to speak freely.

[@Jm-Gonz]

That’s because anyone can pleasantly sit and lie and evade answering questions, give platitudes and repeat rehearsed lines for 30 minutes, can bob and weave and actually not say anything of substance . Trump and Vance both did 3 hours free flow on Joe Rogan.

[@roberthieber1]

Rogan was a soft interview and he was obviously on his side from the get go. Didn’t know Joe was maga before that

[@scratchpenny]

@@roberthieber1 Even so, you don't see Harris and Biden doing that anywhere. And Rogan would be fair to even a very left-wing person. He has in the past, for example, Bernie Sanders. Trying to paint him as some right-wing operative is bad faith.

[@roberthieber1]

@ he has jd Vance and trump on right before the election and gave them a softball platform. He definitely tried to push trump over the top knowing his influence. It’s fine he’s allowed. But it’s true

[@scratchpenny]

@@roberthieber1 Yes, he went toward Trump/Vance this time around. But he gives almost every guest a softball platform - he's not a journalist and doesn't pretend to be. He would have done the same for Harris, but she was unwilling to do two to three hours unedited. The real problem is that Harris is not authentic enough to do those kinds of interviews. She even struggled with her answers on The Breakfast Club.

[@supersubes]

@@scratchpenny well said. It’s absolutely amazing to me that so many people cant see this. Harris coulda had her softball chat too, and avoided it.🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@dudedabsworth8023]

It’s called political theater. They can’t have anyone interfering with their narrative.

[@D12345]

Yeah but internet media will be/is theater too.

[@dudedabsworth8023]

@ the ones pretending to be a traditional media newscast sure are. Agreed.

[@scrtwpnx]

Well ya'll vote for trump for his theatre

[@adamtreco7]

They structure the interviews in such a way to avoid controversy and longer interviews have a higher chance of going off the rails.

[@philgiordano7715]

Why is Saagar’s name not in the title of any of these videos? Did I miss something?

[@fleafly70]

It’s because he’s black.

[@neelamkrishna7445]

Great topic for convo Lex

[@danielebowman]

Indeed great question, and a really important one.

[@bobwallace9364]

We’re seeing information being delivered in ways markedly different than how it was traditionally handled. It’s much harder to control information now.

[@jasonrossrealty]

I watch breaking points all the time. My respect for Saagar has gone UP having watched this clip.

[@CalebDriver-my1jg]

They are shallow ASF. It's harder to stage a fake conversation for hours. If these ppl sat down and talked for 2 or 3 hours, it would show just how selfish, hateful, and disingenuous they truly are. Bc they know that it's hard to hide body language for 3 hours.

[@spointz8936]

This sounds rlly narrow minded and presumptuous

[@spointz8936]

And hateful

[@JonWayn3557]

@@spointz8936and true! Democrats are self-righteous phonies!

[@johngaltjkt62]

Kind of like these two clowns

[@AlKupaa-j2m]

​@spointz8936 broaden our minds with a better explanation then

[@nathanseable7486]

The White House should do two briefings a month. One for the traditional folks, we have to buy their dumb seats, the second for podcasts and other nontraditional sources who get to come for free.

[@karamjitdedyal752]

Or just get rid off all main stream media completely and just do independent media. The msm ratings bar fox are as sagar said low.

[@DrkDragn]

Here's your answer.. By keeping it to an hour or less, they can deflect with clip points so they never actually say anything.. This hides their agenda

[@obiorajideofor8256]

Karoline Levitt needs to watch this

[@J.JamesTheKid.]

Name me a Republican government official who has been on Lex again?

[@benislosthushan4490]

Elon Musk

[@jakee74]

Long form discussion is the only form I'll trust (but confirm anymore. It's hard to hide true intentions for 2-3 hours .

[@willnew4745]

This narrative is so stupid. Conmen who have lied for a living can easily do it for 2-3 hours. If you think otherwise, you’ve never met a used car salesman.

[@jakee74]

@willnew4745 if you spend 3 hours with a used car salesman and don't smell the bull, then have fun with that 150k mile Jeep Cherokee.

[@daycrow8651]

All of those people are center right on a global scale

[@cjgutierrez2018]

Probably because democrat politicians have to basically represent a coalition of very very different kinds of voters and any opinion they share will upset some portion of this base. On the right the overwhelming majority are lock step behind trump and are either willing to look past or don’t care about disagreeable things he might say.

[@jefferytokarsky1930]

Exactly! The Democratic Party is a coalition of groups that only agree on one thing, rent seeking for their identity group. Beyond that, there is little holding them together and government largess is reaching its limit with the national debt. How do you appeal to Jews and Muslims, Muslims and gays, citizens and illegal immigrants, etc.. Then there are policy conflicts like the war on poverty and importing poor people or cutting the military budget and raising tension with Russia and China.

[@JackInABeanstalk98]

@@jefferytokarsky1930 The Democrat wing of imperialism focuses less on military violence and more on using native tokens and soft power. Both parties of US empire have no qualms about either, though

[@jefferytokarsky1930]

@ Seems more like the two parties today are MAGA and the Uniparty, not Dems and GOP.

[@JackInABeanstalk98]

@@jefferytokarsky1930 MAGA is a uniparty funnel

[@ase2201]

I am really hoping that Lex doesn't listen to a single word Saagar says. Saagar has been wrong on so many things this past year and he doesn't acknowledge it.

[@howardleigh1307]

I thought I was the only one….guys full of himself. Telling Lex what to do. Lex is doing just fine.

[@manuelfuentesguerra88]

Hopefully one day you can have Jimmy Dore on, if you want to have a conversation for as long as you want, love him or hate him talking with no filter is what makes great conversations, he used to go on the hill to talk with Saagar and Krystal, used to tell them he wondered for how long they would allow them to keep telling the truth. They now are distant from each other too.

[@masonbiker01]

Here here! All for opening up the white house press cohort

[@johnlaudenslager706]

I've found the press briefings uninteresting forever, no matter what administration was in power. The gotcha type questions and short, shallow answers don't help understanding. I'd rather do without, and just advise any administration to deliver a pertinent speech by the president whenever a topic got very hot.

[@oscarorozco150]

For starters, why do you assume it’s fear?

[@Frag-ile]

I think the White house press secretary needs to set up an online portal to provide for a selection of "new media" people the ability to submit questions through. These people are not able to have someone living in DC to go in and be physically present in the room the way legacy and mainstream media companies are. I am sure Lex Friedman, Tim Pool or Alex Jones could submit some very pertinent and important questions that the press core never would and they wouldn't have to limit the participation to the people in the room.

[@Pacificnick]

Great convo.

[@MikkiWillis]

They are afraid of being caught lying.

[@NEtrailboss]

Irony = Long conversation about our government and how things get run. Then a ten minute long conversation on how to run a press room in a way not just for the establishment that also helps the little guy. Insert some Huxley quote here.

[@lars-jacobscharer7586]

Those examples are not even remotely left, centre right at best.

[@depsomalia]

Peter Doocy should have the main chair. With the rest of the gang. 😅

[@magic_toaster8510]

“The left” isn’t even that left anymore, Obama? 😂

[@crewmax4240]

I wish Trump would find a spot for Saagar in his administration. He's not a fanboy, very smart, and would reach a lot of people.

[@KillerKlipsch]

Can we just have a show with him and Robby Sauve already.

[@rosscampbell1173]

And Kim Iverson.

[@KillerKlipsch]

@@rosscampbell1173 Fuck Yeah!

[@Ajsopranosrubberdux]

It’ll be called ‘the fash hour’

[@Patson-_-]

That was quite a rant. Love it though 🙏🏾

[@chriscimorelli278]

5:29 the election night coverage of mainstream media was awful! The programs are usually great on election night but none of them had high energy programs that night, not even Fox.

[@Enhancedlies]

Lex, please can you interview this brilliant scientist podcaster Lex Fridman... you two would bounce so well of each other! Get your mate Sam Altman to make a Lex Cloan trained on every podcast/interview you have ever done. and then interview yourself!

[@PinkTorpedo909]

I want to hear everything they have to say. What else can I hold against them?

[@makedredd299]

Both of them are irrelevant, they will not be part of the future. They are just spectators.

[@stevep927]

I would love to meet this guy

[@hanooi7450]

Should hand out the media seats based on which organization have the most viewers.

[@LilLoopie]

I’m not sure how it would work exactly, but it should be done on a rotating basis IMO.

[@mrgraham5521]

The truth is simple. Politicians have canned responses. They don't say whats on their mind, they specifically say what they think their constituency wants to hear. They don't expand on answers out of fear that they will lose people.

[@T3268d]

I like saagar unfortunately the women who sits beside him destroyed the show and its credibility the past couple years shes terrible just cringe !

[@HenryElfin]

It'd be difficult to remember all the scripts of hour long questions even though it was already previewed before the interview. They need telepromptes to speak

[@erikk1820]

Man, it’s nice hearing Saagar without Krystal at his side. She has become, or at least it’s evident she always was, another mouthpiece for the establishment.

[@gradydavis251]

I dont think it’s got anything to do with duration of the interview, it’s that they just point blank don’t trust these major podcasters enough yet & the format gives them less control. Lex can talk about having liberal guests but in their minds he’s still lumped in with Joe Rogan and others viewed by the establishment as too conservative to trust. It’ll change in the next few years

[@freegadflyathome]

The audience seems like a problem as well. I'm not a Kamala fan and would not encourage her to go on Rogan. Sorry, but I've seen these comment sections do it too many times... they are gonna start typing up their pre-conceived notions (or stuff Rogan has told them, like "they are communist") and watch two minutes of the interview.

[@gradydavis251]

@ I agree, there is a profound difference in the levels of scrutiny that different guests are subjected to in the comment section just based on their perceived political affiliations

[@TipToe67]

Two of my favs!

[@Myke664]

I thought Lex had more integrity. Bring back interesting guests. We are all sick of politics dude

[@jakevilhauer5506]

Robert Caro mentioned

[@Khanh.Nguyen369]

When one speaks on emotions versus data and facts then time runs out quickly.

[@vincedoan]

100% agreed with this idea!!!

[@clay9711]

It’s because lizards only have about a 30 min attention span, max.

[@charlescurtis6321]

Outstanding

[@ZacharyWillFilms]

Sure.Some people actually work and dont just sit behind a podcast mic all day. What a selfish jerk.

[@timeout3033]

This guy is "optimistic" that Democrat politicians in the US will start doing long-form podcasts with people like Rogan. This guy understands zilch.

[@iTuber012]

Today I learned Obama is left wing 😂

[@freegadflyathome]

Right?!!🫤😂

[@airassault11]

If they decide to go on a podcast for more than an hour for an interview, they will list the subject(s) they will/will not talk about.

[@tonycooke3982]

This guy doesn't get that the paradigm has changed 🙄

[@Jericho642]

As a leftist myself, the reason dems cant do the long form interview ie because left voters are too virtuous. Say the wrong thing and you lose voters; dont talk about specific issues enough and you lose voters. They want unicorn candidates who please everyone and offend no one, all of the time. The same dynamic doesn’t exist on the right. It pains me to say it…

[@AntonioAkaPablo]

He should interview Bill Clinton he does longer interviews.

[@RobbWolfVideos]

You kinda know why they won’t, right?

[@johnconover52]

We don’t need Jim Acosta.

[@annchristensen7104]

Lex is fine. He doesn't need to "hone his skills".

[@UnnamedBridgeburner]

Saagar is great. His takes on Ukraine and Israel lack nuance and his cohost is terrible. That being said he seems like a good dude and he is sharp.

[@xx1352]

Great idea… I have the alternative media ask the questions… Because they ask the questions with the public want to ask ourselves!

[@maryjeanquart4742]

SAAGAR iIS A REAL JOURNALIST

[@gameovr17]

bc they can't back up their statements. if u literally jus keep working out their ideas they fall off a cliff.

[@BeauDAmore-u1o]

Why doesn’t anyone interview you, Lex?

[@mattschrader5047]

When you have ideas you are on the offensive and willing to talk. When you are bought into the maintaining and growing status quo you have no ideas. After 30 minutes you are pretty much done defending the status quo and the interview is over. It's that simple

[@Youtubesucks15]

Talking points and ideology dry up after 15mins

[@flisflip9738]

old people who watch tv are dying now,tv is old,dead era. podcasts are new "meta"

[@jasonbennett9910]

If one thinks Obama and AOC are "left wing leaders" , one is a deeply ignorant person. Knowing the difference between left wing and liberal is common knowledge to a well versed 8th grader...😂

[@archie_football74]

Saggs needs to get away from Kuklinkskis missus !

[@Jetlife41]

Interview Bukele, Kagame, and Ibrahim Traore

[@jordanziskin2234]

There ideas can’t stand up to scrutiny. Can you imagine Obama having to spend 3 hours defending open border, transing children, and men in women’s sports?

[@DonaldBrown-l6g]

So true, no real character can be established in a 30 minute interview

[@KoolAideIsMyPronoun]

He needs a bilateral White House press room appointment. Make up a position if need be. But make it happen

[@isaklytting5795]

They think it will reduce their image as someone "special". Someone different from "ordinary people." They want their time to be seen as "unobtainable".

[@invaderj815]

To much to hide they don't want to slip up and say a no no

[@jonathanliles2044]

They have a belief system that they aren’t comfortable being open about…

[@terrymp1091]

Doesn’t really matter who’s asking when you have a press secretary and other officials like KJP that never say anything

[@Davalexon]

Trump should become the first prez to allow top political youtube or social media journos into the press room. I don't know who would best serve that role. Tucker Carlson is too big to do that sort of thing, but people like Max Blumenthal, Matt Taibbi, etc. It would break the brains of the NBC/CNN talking heads.

[@pebblepod30]

I think left and right is obselete. Corrupt system Vs Non Corrupt system is the better metric.

[@strongallalong89]

Ask Saagar to come back to debate Dr. Mike on healthcare. Saagar thinks the high cost of healthcare in the US is because doctors are greedy. I think that’s blatantly absurd. But let’s have the debate!

[@dfinma]

7:38 When has it ever been said that the White House press corp was intended to serve America's interests? Before you answer let me rephrase a little bit. Bro said America's interests but he should have said Americans' interests. America's interests, that is the corprotist duopoly oligarchy, is something entirely different.

[@russmorris5129]

So many Americans of Indian descent ARE SO BRIGHT!!